ToffeeWeb - Season 2009-10

The Mail Bag

Just a few points!

After watching today's game with a mixture of clenched "cheeks" and gritted teeth, a few points leapt out at me (and several thousand other Evertonians too I bet).

Firstly, Rodwell is/will be an absolutley outstanding player. There were times today when he was head and shoulders above a number of the "old pro's," demanding the ball and taking responsibility when "others" didn't see up to it to be honest.

Secondly, Distin had just about the best debut of almost anyone I can remember. Didn't put a foot wrong (I know it was only Wigan) and his distribution was first class, no big hoof up the field from THIS guy today, just quietly went about his business and found a blue shirt every time.

Thirdly, and I've tended to stay out of the Hibbert and Osman bashing up to now... and I'm not really gonna "bash" 'em here, but I have to say that as much as they give 100% (cough) it's now become obvious that if we are to mount a serious challenge at the effin Four/Five then those two should be no more than squad players. Cruel, but true.

Lastly, I can't remember the last time I saw such celebrating from the players at the end of a run of the mill Premier League game. Don't get me wrong I'm not knocking them for it, quite the opposite. I watched each and every one of them as they finished and came off the pitch and it was obvious just HOW much that win meant.

A little ps: Bily looked scared to death when he first came on. The atmosphere in those last five or ten minutes was electric and he must have thought (in Russian of course) "Fuckski sake... this is frightening."
Brian Williams, Wirral Posted 30/08/2009 at 18:32:18

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David Ellis
1 Posted 31/08/2009 at 03:01:47

Boy - Everton are tought to watch at times. But that’s what makes it so entertaining. You need to feel despair before you can feel joy.

I thought Hibbert had a decent game, he got in some excellent crosses. Yobo and Osman also had some good moments. But I have to agree that the Yobo-Hibbert-Osman axis constantly causes me palpitations. If we get the dutch boy Johnny H in and switch Pienaar to the right, and Jags coming back then those three will become decent squad players — assuming that the new signings bed in (and actually happenin the case of Johnny H).

What really struck me yesterday was our bench strength. Being able to bring on Fellaini, and Jo makes a real difference — as opposed to bringing on say Vaughan or Anichebe. They really got involved and gave Wigan something different to deal with.

Stephen Foster
2 Posted 31/08/2009 at 06:20:46

Just a thought, I think Saha has been doing really well for us, he's gone under the radar a little bit as everyone's talking about the new signings and Hibbo/Osman etc, but he's quietly racking up a few goals now, 4 I think. He does fade a little towards the end, but it doesn't really matter with Jo on the bench ready and waiting.

I think he's turning into a very shrewd signing.

Kevin Sparke
3 Posted 31/08/2009 at 08:59:47

As one of Hibbert’c critics, I have to admit his crossing was sublime yesterday.

Ray Roche
4 Posted 31/08/2009 at 09:22:21

I posted on here the other day about Hibbert's defensive frailties ie: getting pulled in at the back post and it happened again yesterday. I know he was left with two players to mark but it was a ball to the far post again that led to Wigan's goal. That apart, I thought Hibbert had a good game and, as has been said, his crossing was first class. Baines, take note.

Sian Bradshaw
5 Posted 31/08/2009 at 09:50:23

I’m with you on this one Ray. I thought Hibbert had a good game both defensively and attack wise - he put in some cracking crosses.

But re their goal, it was Ossie who lost his man at the back post not Hibbert. Ossie was marking Scharner but the Wigan man ghosted away from him at the crucial moment.

I think that while some criticism about Hibbo is fair, he tends to get blamed when he’s not really the one at fault. e.g. the Wigan goal and the Sigma penalty (take a bow Baines!).

Ray Roche
6 Posted 31/08/2009 at 10:12:38

Sian Bradshaw, My intention wasn’t to criticise Hibbert, merely to point out his, and our, defensive weak point. You’re right about Wigan's goal; Osman, once again, didn’t pick up his man, which is why I mentioned Hibbert having two men to mark. However, we get caught out at the far post in our right back/right midfield position every time.

Dave Wilson
7 Posted 31/08/2009 at 10:21:35

That's because far more crosses come in from our left side than they do from our right. Baines is a much better footballer than Hibbert, but Hibbert is a better defender.

People want to bang on about the Villa game and the Cup Final — Hibbert was returning from injury in both — but they want to forget about all the clean sheets we kept until Hibbert was injured. Remember those games when the jag played right back?

Cahill, Rodwell and Saha all missed guilt-edge chances from Hibbert's superb crosses yesterday, the match should have been over before Wigan launched an attack. I don't expect anyone to critise those three though.

Paul Gladwell
8 Posted 31/08/2009 at 10:47:34

Our whole right hand side is garbage. Hibbert knocked some cracking crosses over in the second half but for most of the game Neville or whoever was looking for something out right and there was never an option so they had to turn and give it to our only outlets, Baines and Pienaar. Is it any wonder Yobo to me looked a bag of nerves as it cannot fill him with confidence what he has in front of him.

I like Osman, I think he has a good touch but he is not a wide player and playing him out of position has turned him into a whipping boy and his confidence looks shot to pieces.

Moyes got out of jail yesterday, when something is not working you mend it and that should've been done at half-time instead of waiting for the opposition to score which he often does.

Anyway come our next game it looks like our right-hand side will look a little different and our confidence will have gone up a notch, Arteta and the Yak are on the way back so things will hopefully be moving up.

Brian Williams
9 Posted 31/08/2009 at 10:57:54

I hate it when you make a post and it goes right off-track... Hibbert, Hibbert, Hibbert. *LOL*

David Hallwood
10 Posted 31/08/2009 at 11:01:11

Hibbert may have lost his man on the far post, but it was the unapposed run of Chimbonda (I think) that caused the damage on out left, in a way it reminded me of the Fabregas goal, of a player cantering 50 yards with not a blue shirt anywhere near him.

John Martin
11 Posted 31/08/2009 at 12:09:09

Hibbert did have a much improved game yesterday but the goal was a goal we concede so often. A cross from the left and either Hibbert or Osman lose their man and he scores with a header. It's happened so often over the years. Osman kept up his recent awful form.

Brian Williams
12 Posted 31/08/2009 at 12:19:41

See what I mean...................

Ray Roche
13 Posted 31/08/2009 at 12:46:46

Brian Williams

I agree with everything you say. Feeling better....?
And your right about Billy, a bloke behind me said "Look at Billy. He looks like he’s shitted himself... Talk about a rabbit in the headlights". So you were not alone in your observation.

Jay Harris
14 Posted 31/08/2009 at 12:42:50

Brian
you said it yourself!!!

It was your third point!!

I wrote a post in defense of the pair of them to say they are being asked to play and it’s the management’s job to provide better players so we should be thankful they give 100% unfortunately I feel they were both at fault for Wigan’s goal which could have been a major problem for us as it lifted Wigan and deflated us.

I know they dont come joined at the hip but Hibbo has a definite weakness from crosses from the left. He should have shouted Ossie into position to cover but it was mainly Ossie who completely lost his man and gave them a stupid goal.

I think Moyes is just as angry as some supporters because he is quoted as saying some players haven't played to standard and now he has his new recruits they may be axed.

Jason Heng
15 Posted 31/08/2009 at 13:45:45

John Martin, you said it yourself: "A cross from the left". And the players on the right get the blame?

David Sheen
16 Posted 31/08/2009 at 13:34:05

Defensively I think Hibbert is superb. It’s just going forward were he’s mediocre. There are many times Hibbert makes great tackles. But yesterday he put in some great crosses which I didn’t think he was capable of. He put one cross right on Cahill's head, where Cahill should have scored.

He shouldn’t have played in the Cup Final because he wasn’t fit. And it told.
People seem to remember that game more than most of last season were Hibbert played well.

I think our fans give too much stick to Hibbert. Moyes has Rodwell in mind as a central defender, but surely he’ll be best as a defensive midfielder?

Brian Williams
17 Posted 31/08/2009 at 13:53:10

Thanks Ray Roche....you’re not a psychiatrist are you? *L*

Ray Roche
18 Posted 31/08/2009 at 13:51:58

Jason Heng
Yes Jason. A cross comes from our left to the far post which, once made, needs to be defended from the players on our right. Of course, if the defenders on our left prevent the cross from being made in the first place we eouldn’t have a problem. But no-one on here would be able to slag Hibbert off, would they?

Ray Roche
19 Posted 31/08/2009 at 13:54:54

No Brian, but after some days on here I need one!

John Martin
20 Posted 31/08/2009 at 14:32:15

Jason crosses happen in football and I expect players to defend them, they cant always be cut out by the first man. If it had happened from the other side I would have blamed Baines. If a long ball played through the middle was missed by our centre-halves I wouldn't blame a striker for not stopping the initial ball FFS.

Robert Davis
21 Posted 31/08/2009 at 15:21:32

But(john martin) thats the point some are trying to make.If that cross had come from the right Hibbert would be blamed for letting crosses come in.

John Martin
22 Posted 31/08/2009 at 16:36:55

Robert the comment was aimed at me for blaming the poor defending of the cross and had nothing to do with saying others would have blamed Hibbert if the cross came in from his side. As i stated i do not blame players for allowing those types of crosses come into the box as it happens to every team its part of football. But look back over the last 5 years and those types of goal have been conceded with back post headers from unmarked players etc far too many times. It was Osman who didnt track his man i actually thought Hibbert played ok. He is a decent defender but we need better just like Kilbane & Bent did good jobs for us but when we moved on a level we got better players into their positions and now if we are to progress we need better than Osman & Hibbert on our right.

Robert Moore
23 Posted 31/08/2009 at 17:53:59

Did Billy get any touch of the ball yesterday?

Tom Bowers
24 Posted 31/08/2009 at 18:00:26

Totally agree with your comments Brian.It was a tough game albeit nervy at times. Wigan succeeded in kicking their way into the game and used their physical superiority to good effect. Obviously working to instructions.This is where Osman and Hibbert have shortcomings.The new signings must get their extended runs immediately at the expense of those who already have and have failed to be consistently impressive.
There will be more tough games ahead in the coming weeks no matter who the opposition is and I for one cannot wait for Yaks, Arteta and Jags.to get fit.

Dave Wilson
25 Posted 31/08/2009 at 18:02:23

Ok, So Hibbert is persistently at fault when crosses come in from the left ? I can remember him being out-jumped by Taylor - one of the best headers of the ball in the country - against the Toon last season, but all of a sudden theres a long list ?
What utter nonsense, lets have the list.

On another thread yesterday, I asked the Hibbo critics to name an Everton player who has qualified for Europe more times in a Royal blue shirt . . . .the silence was deafening, just as it will be now when they actually have to come up with the facts

John Martin
26 Posted 31/08/2009 at 18:36:05

Without thinking Van Nistelroy in the 4-3 game, Standard Lieges 1st goal in the away leg and I am sure if I went through all goals conceded there are more but I can't be bothered. I don't consider myself a Hibbert knocker he is a good defender. He is very good when faced with a direct left winger but when opposed with a player with good movement he often loses him but if we want to push on he needs replacing likewise Osman. If we keep them we’ll stay at our current level and that seems fine for some.

Dave Wilson
27 Posted 31/08/2009 at 19:28:43

Ah the silence is broken, but no cigar, John.

There was no cross leading to a goal in Liege, the first was a long-range shot, which Howard fumbled into the path of the scorer, and the second was a penalty.

As for the 3-4 game against Man U? LOL, you're not clutching at straws there are you? It was nearly 6 years ago! Anyway, Saha and Nistelroy ran Stubbsy and Rhino absolutely ragged, they could have been 6 up at half time... how did that get to be Hibbo's fault?

NEXT?

Come on, Hibbo bashers, he’s been at the club a decade now — your list must be endless... but let's try to keep it factual.

Tony Gee
28 Posted 31/08/2009 at 19:56:31

I never thought i’d see the words Hibbert and Sublime in the same post...

Get a grip, Folks, he merely did his job for once....

Peter Griffin
29 Posted 31/08/2009 at 19:19:59

Robert, Bily did get a touch, a 2-yard pass on the halfway line. Looks promising, he never hoofed it to Felli.

Ray Roche
30 Posted 31/08/2009 at 20:35:08

As has already been pointed out on here, by myself and others, Hibbert’s defensive qualities are admirable, so I for one would like to see Hibbert with a quality right sided midfielder in front of him who would afford him some protection from the oppositions attacking wing play. Then maybe we would come to appreciate his efforts.

John Martin
31 Posted 31/08/2009 at 20:39:11

Dave, you are right: Howard saves a long-range effort, palms it out to the left, which leads to a chipped ball over Hibbert's head and a goal is scored at the far post. Thanks for confirming what I thought. I don't want to argue if you feel Hibbert is a good player that's fine... everybody is entitled to an opinion. Mine is he is a decent player but he and Osman are the weakest links in our team. They need to be replaced if we want to progress. I am a fan of Neville but after those two places are improved his would be the next player who needs improving.

Harvey Miller
32 Posted 31/08/2009 at 23:14:59

Hibbo played almost ok as a right back against Wigan... yes, he did whip in some good crosses; and yes, he did show some interest... but it is not enough. At least three times, Wigan players were played onside behind him and that is unforgivable for a full-back — even if the central defense is still unorganized.

I don’t even want to start with Osman, he is a joke and he seems to know that.

At the moment we are so weak and clueless in midfield that even a team like Wigan with no clue can almost break us. Their game plan was putting ten big men behind the ball and hope for the best. It almost worked. Besides, they really made it difficult for us by playing dirty: 17 fouls against our 3. That really shows what they were after.

But anyway, nice to get points for awhile who knows when the next win will come as it seems more likely that we are not going to get any further signings (ooh what a surprise)

But still, it was just like that last year...

Dave Wilson
33 Posted 01/09/2009 at 06:27:56

John

Sorry mate your memory is playing tricks, the midfield who’d allowed the guy who shot to run the length of the park and Tim Howard were at fault for that goal.

Just so you know John, I agree with you Hibbert is not good enough to take us any further, but I get heartily sick of him carrying the can. Just look at Harvey’s post, it's absolutely typical, Hibbert laid on THREE sitters on Sunday, but no mention of the people who squandered them, just a grudging acknowledgement accompanied by a ridiculous claim.

We have 5-6 players who are not good enough and to suggest improving our right back would propel us into the elite is just plain Naive.

Ricardo Humphries
34 Posted 01/09/2009 at 07:15:37

Brian, I think your comments are spot on mate!!

While you at it, also through in poor under-performing Howard’s name in the frame?

Ciarán McGlone
35 Posted 01/09/2009 at 09:44:29

So Hibbert has another good game....and, er ..gets the same criticism.

What ever happened to judging players on the merits of each game?

Jesus, some people just won’t let that cup final go...

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