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Valiant Effort: Nil Return

A couple of somewhat promising changes that could be construed as modestly adventurous by David Moyes: Osman and Saha benched in favour of Rodwell and Beckford... Rodwell playing in right-side forward attacking role, with Arteta dropping strangely deep, almost alongside Fellaini in front of the back four.

Everton started very brightly, dominating possession, and it looked that they might score when Baines burst in from the left but he could not pull the ball back effectively and nothing came of the corner. Fellaini was majestic in the middle, the ball coming his way almost magnetically.

Richard Dunne fouled Beckford somewhat cynically, earning an early card, and Arteta's free-kick was a bit better than usual, at least on target, but did not fool Freidel at all.

But it was a silly slip by the Big Fella on the first Villa attack that saw the ball end up in the back of the Everton net all too easily, when Ashley Young slipped a pass nonchalantly past Jagielka and into space owned by the advanceing Luke Yonug, who curled a scoring shot past Howard with simply far too much ease. So... an up hill climb yet again.

Beckford and Baines combined well for Pienaar to put in a superb curler that pinged off the angle, a top-class attempt, Freidel well beaten. Beckford was getting involved but his touch, passing and accuracy were all way below the standard required.

Forward moves from Everton were looking better but breaking down far too often at the edge of the Villa penalty area. [Described in classic terms by David Hallwood on our Live Forum as "watching eunuch porn ? all foreplay and no penetration!] They won a handful of corners as they cranked up the pressure, but the final ball, as ever, was just not good enough. Fellaini was getting closer and closer to a card, penalised mainly for his own physical presence.

Villa weathered the Everton storm, such as it was, and mounted their own not unimpressive attacks, one good cross needing a strong defensive header from Distin.

Rodwell, who had started wide right, popped up on the left and tried a chipped cross that just drifted wide. At the other end, the youngster Albrighton was doing a pretty good Coleman impression, causing havoc, winning corners, and getting screams for a penalty just before the break when Pienaar was thought to have clipped him as he tried to shoot...

No changes at half-time, of course, despite the scoreline. First real action was Albrighton delivering an excellent cross that Carew headed wide!!! Eveton attacked but it broke down again 0and Ashley Young was on a one-man break against Distin, thankfully shooting wide. While Everton attacked at walking pace again but produced nothing of merit as Pienaar grimaced toward the bench, clutching his knee.

Almost an hour gone... nothing happening... What to do? Inject a burst of life in the form of Coleman, perhaps? Er... no: King Louis: tried and trusted, on for the consistently poor Beckford. Pienaar produced a horrible pass under no pressure that led to a Carew attack and shot. At the other end, something for the scrapbooks, a superb cross from Hibbert on the run, under pressure... but no-ne there. A great corner from Cahill was defended away as Everton applied some pressure. A shooting chance for Fellaini and/or Saha that they contrived to miss, getting in eachother's way.

The impetus swung again as Carew looked to have set up Young but his shot did not connect well and Howard just about pawed it away to safety. Then a good shot from Saha forced a great save from Freidel, then a nice cross found Fellaini but his looping header lacked power. Albrighton went in the book for fouling Baines, and a fantastic delivery from the free kick glanced in dangerously by Rodwell, flew just inches past the post.

The game had a really competitive bite for a spell, with some pulsating stuff end to end, both sides looking like they could score... that was until Everton resorted to hoofing it, courtesy of Distin. But playing it on the ground was no better, Jagielka mystifytingly passing the ball straight to Ashley Young... Lordy lordy! Warnock, with a clear tackle from behind on Rodwell, should have gotten a yellow card but didn't, Rodwell eventually hobbling off.

Cahill looked to dive and won a free-kick in a great position. Coleman came on for Rodwell as Atreta blasted the free-kick at the wall and Saha went for the careeneing ball but got called wrongly for a foul on the defender. Coleman and Hibbert contrived to win a corner that did not beat the first defender but Coleman and Fellaini then tried to walk the ball in through a massed defence. That failed and the Villains were off again Jagielka almost slipping up, conceding a corner.

Young looked to score again, but forced an absolutely brilliant save by Howard, Albrighton fluffing the rebound badly when it looked like he must score. A simply scintillating run by Coleman to the byeline deserved more but no-one really showed for the brilliant cut-back. More good attacking football from Everton, Saha powering in from the right. A fantastic corner headed on by Jagielka, right across the goalmouth! A trendous spell of pressure by the Blues once again delivered nothing.

10 mins left and Hibbert was replaced by Heitinga, final role of the dice but his first contribution was poor although Petrov then fouled Baines to set up another golden free-kick chance but Arteta again hit the wall. Jagielka then headed over from a much better Arteta corner, should have done far better, a glorious chance really. More attacking verve down the left, grate work betweeen Fellaini and Pienaar to get Saha in but his shot blocked for another corner... and another, and another, and another!

The onlslaught Everton mounted in the last 20-30 mins was really very impressive, but the ball just would not get close enough to the Villa net. Injuries to Villa players contrived to ease the pressure and break their momentum approaching the 90-minute mark, as Baines resorted to Route One for Saha but he didn't control it, and 5 mins were added as another perfect-looking ball fell for Saha but he let it bounce rather than taking ownership.

A fantastic move down the left and Saha lashed in the winner... only for it to hit Dunne's knee!! Unbelievable stuff. Saha made another chance but his ground shot was hit just a fraction too slow and Freidel got a desperate fingertip to it. The whistle blew and The Blues had stolen an incredible defeat from the jaws of victory. What was that about Everton lacking goal threat?

Michael Kenrick     Posted 29/08/2010 at

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Graham Smallwood
1   Posted 29/08/2010 at 18:02:39

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Sorry, I've just seen Stilian Petrov say Villa deserved to win! WTF was he watching?

Personally, I thought he should've gone for two yellows, one if the first half for persistent fouling, and his yellow in the second half deserved it on the tackle alone, not the "totting-up" process.

Paul Olsen
2   Posted 29/08/2010 at 18:02:26

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Oh MY god! That was one of the most agonising games I have watched for a long, long time.

Totally gutted; how on earth did we fail to put at least one ball behind Friedel (who once again was magnificent)?

It's absolutely stunning to be left with 1 point from the first three games on the back of our last two games.

Gutted, gutted, gutted.
Kase Chow
3   Posted 29/08/2010 at 18:02:13

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Why can't we play 2 up front? EVER!

I'm so bored of our style of play, so bored with being a nearly team. So thoroughly bored with being an Everton fan

I've been disappointed for 25 years except the 1995 FA Cup Final. And I'm so bored with how shit our 'game' is. It's all shit.
Joe McMahon
4   Posted 29/08/2010 at 18:00:56

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I was slaughtered by many for suggesting Coleman should start this game. I suppose these were the same people who were predicting Everton to finish in the top 4. Well, have another go at me if you wish, but at the moment we are in the bottom 3. Still, after 9 years, Moyes is still learning on his £65,000 a week.
Nick Armitage
5   Posted 29/08/2010 at 18:01:25

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We need a goal threat and Beckford is not the answer.

4-5-1 is used to accomodate Cahill and if Cahill doesn't score then we are playing with a man down.

Coleman was more of a threat in 10 mins than Arteta or Pienaar in the whole 90.

Things need a shake up there.
Kase Chow
6   Posted 29/08/2010 at 18:08:54

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We WON'T finish 4th, we WON'T achieve anything of note this season. What's the point?
Kevin Hudson
7   Posted 29/08/2010 at 18:08:01

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Apparently our worst start in 13 years!!

With the exception of Pienaar switching off for the goal, a great performance: 67% possession, EIGHTEEN corners.

Frustrating. Outside of Howard, Saha/Heitinga & Pienaar at fault for the 3 conceded goals, the team have looked promising. Optimism still high.
Joe McMahon
8   Posted 29/08/2010 at 18:13:28

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Moyes, Kenwright, Bottom 3, 24/7, Kings Dock, Kirkby, Never any new signings, 1 up front, A Manager in his ninth season without a trophy. No trophy for 15 years, manager on £65k a week, watch this space, strikers' graveyard... and we wonder wy Rooney wanted to leave.

I'm fucking sick of the tactics we start with for every game, he acts as if Marcus Bent is still here. Top 4???... Nah, bottom 3. I've been supporting blues since 1977, and I'm just so fed up with Moyes & Kenwright I want them both to just fuck off.
Ian Tod
9   Posted 29/08/2010 at 18:15:44

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I'm shocked that we haven't just won that game 5-1 let alone lost it! My only complaint is the panic our players get in when there is a goalscoring opportunity. If we were more composed, we would of rolled them over with ease. Total domination of the midfield, just very unlucky today.
Tore Fredlund
10   Posted 29/08/2010 at 18:09:05

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The reason we don`t play with two up front is Tim Cahill. A fantastic servant, and our only goalscorer this term, makes it hard for Moyes to accomodate all the talent we have.

A superb performance today, and the team gave their all and dominated the match completely.

A minor observation. Yes, Fellaini messed up before the goal, but for me the slow reaction of Distin forced Jags to commit over on the left, leaving a fatal gap in the heart of defence.

This is a time to support the team. Questions will be asked of Moyes, who even though he did alright today clearly has no idea how to best use this strong squad. I have always defended him, but he will have to get this sorted, or we`ll underperform. And there is no reason to now...

John McLoughlin
11   Posted 29/08/2010 at 18:17:24

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CL hopes have gone for me, i am still clinging to a top 7 finish hope.
Steven de Polo
12   Posted 29/08/2010 at 18:09:47

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It is frustrating watching us play sometimes but no-one (and I mean no-one) can doubt we were the vastly better team today. Having said that we desperately need a line-leading centre-forward that can be a better outlet for Arteta and Pienaar.

We will play worse than that this year and score 3. Those calling for Moyes's head need to remember that there are 7 or 8 genuinely decent teams in this league, and we are one of them. We need to start taking chances but I see no reason for panic and we can still put a run of form together that sees us challenge for top 4.
Charles King
13   Posted 29/08/2010 at 18:10:04

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I thought we showed great improvement and played Villa off the park.
But you can see we're not used to putting teams away, not incisive enough and unfortunately slightly ponderous.

DM might be a good manager he's not a lucky one though.
Mark Flannery
14   Posted 29/08/2010 at 18:15:09

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@Kevin, optimisim still high... why for god's sake??!! Moyes is obsessed with 4-5-1, no matter who the opposition are & whether home or away. We have no pace whatsoever throughout the team with the exception of probably Vaughan who Moyes obviously doesn't rate.

He plays Rodwell wide right instead of CM and will not drop Cahill no matter how bad he plays. We need to have Coleman RM, Rodwell in the centre with Arteta or Fellaini & Saha & Beckford up front. If we don't beat Man Ure then the alarm bells will be ringing, BIG TIME!

John Andrews
15   Posted 29/08/2010 at 18:20:33

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Tony Hibbert, Why?

And I know he is well liked on here but Phil Jagielka did absolutely nothing for me today.

James I'Anson
16   Posted 29/08/2010 at 18:22:55

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Next year wil be our year.
Kevin Hudson
17   Posted 29/08/2010 at 18:22:22

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Agree with Tore, we have to get behind the boys. Their goal came ouf of Fellaini's mistake,and Pienaar failing to track his man. If we eradicate some obvious, and easily correctable mistakes, we will kick on.

I'm still optimistic Mark, because I believe this team will turn it around.
George McKane
18   Posted 29/08/2010 at 18:24:41

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When is Arteta going to put in a decent corner or free kick? He takes every one and inevitably they hit the first man or go over. His general play is good ? not great yet this season ? but certainly good and I am not saying drop him or anything near that... but give the free kick duties and corners to someone else now and then.

Lots of possession today but still huff and puff for me. Coleman certainly made a difference when he come on ? why does Saha, similar to Yakubu when he plays, come way out of the box for the ball? Surely we have enough midfield players on the pitch... oh for a real goal-scorer! 270 minutes ? one goal... from a free kick.

David Hallwood
19   Posted 29/08/2010 at 18:27:23

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And the riddle of the right mid berth hasn't been solved by Rodwell, who looked lost over there, and if he continues to be played over there his career will go backwards. Moyed has got to go to the board, and tell them to beg steal & borrow the money for Donovan, he's the answer to our right mid problem plus he can score goals.
Dave Lynch
20   Posted 29/08/2010 at 18:25:47

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He just keeps breaking records Moyes. Worst start to a season, worst defeats, worst goal averages etc.......

Arsenal are apparently interested in Jagyhoofit., well they can have him.Sick of watching him just belt it up the pitch. Fucking gutted.

Steven Sturm
21   Posted 29/08/2010 at 18:29:21

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Three games and we give up? Not me. With different luck we're on nine points, not one. There is too much randomness in this game to draw any conclusions this early in the season.
Mike McLean
22   Posted 29/08/2010 at 18:35:57

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You're absolutely right, Steven. Had we won three games, we would indeed be on nine points.

This discussion, however, is about why we are not on those nine points.
Trevor Lynes
23   Posted 29/08/2010 at 18:31:39

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Arteta had a poor game and did not tackle back at all....his corners and free kicks were poor and he tended to stay back (perhaps they were orders) so had very little influence at the 'business end'.

For all our possesion we created very little and we did not make one decent chance... Pienaar's shot that hit the bar was a solo effort and I am sure that any of the top teams would have taken Villa to the cleaners. We had almost all the play and I don't blame the strikers Beckford or Saha because the service was abysmal.

Our passing in the main was slow and we were hoping for a scrambled goal or a penalty. I'm afraid that we are beginning to lack confidence and even a very poor Villa side could have scored more with breakaways.....

Declan Burke
24   Posted 29/08/2010 at 18:34:23

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Agree with George #18, Arteta's corners and free kicks are shit. Let someone else have a go.

Pienaar needs to be moved out in the next couple of days if he won't sign a new contract and the money spent on someone who knows where the goals are. One goal in three games against Blackburn, Wolves and Villa?

Daniel Johnson
25   Posted 29/08/2010 at 18:39:30

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With a Villa team low on confidence what does Moyes do.

He starts the match with a League One striker up front on his own.

Sums Moyes up really.
Sean Condon
26   Posted 29/08/2010 at 18:35:48

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Tore, Kevin, Steven... add me to the list of optimists on here. It was absolutely a game of inches today... another day and this match finishes 1-3. COYB!!!
Steven Sturm
27   Posted 29/08/2010 at 18:39:02

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Sounds more like whining than discussion Mike. My point is that the first three game results aren't much of an indicator of the season as a whole. The team played well today. Should have won but didn't. We have a good team, good manager, and I'm optimistic for the season.
John McLoughlin
28   Posted 29/08/2010 at 18:52:17

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My biggest concern is the form of our midfield, Some would have us beleive its one of the best in the league. The only player who looked brave enough to go at villa today was Coleman. He'd have created something for us if Moyes would not have made the insane move of putting Heitinga on. I'd love to sit down and have a pint with him and ask how he comes up with his substitutions. We had loads of the ball ? we didn't need a defender playing in midfield.
Peter Laing
29   Posted 29/08/2010 at 18:55:02

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Our strikers are abysmal at the moment and could not hit a cow's arse with a banjo. Very worrying to be pinning our hopes on the fledgling Beckford who to be honest is looking well out of place in the EPL. Reminds me of when we had Campbell and Ferguson et al on big money and we didn't have a decent striker between them.
Guy Hastings
30   Posted 29/08/2010 at 18:42:55

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Reasons to be cheerless: Arteta showed England form; Villa have been a counter attacking side at home since the year dot so we allowed them the freedom of the last third in the second half; they were never going to lose three on the bounce (particularly with us as No 3); for all our possession, their keeper made just two decent saves; 18 corners and only one looked like producing a goal; trying to walk the ball into the goal may be lovely to look at but, as any Gooner will tell you, it wins you nowt.
Michael Brien
31   Posted 29/08/2010 at 18:50:58

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Yes on another day we may play worse and win. However, the majority of managers, when they come up against a team that have lost 0-6 and 2-3 in their last two games will, look to put some pressure on the opposing defence. By playing with a loan striker, Moyes let the Villa back four off the hook.

It was an afternoon of sheer frustration for Evertonians. Yes, I would agree that there's no need to panic ? we have only played 3 games. But I have to say that, whatever else happens this season, that was a game that should not have been lost ? and the blame should be with Moyes.

Moyes is the manager; he decides on the tactics. It is those tactics ? his obsession with 4-5-1 and his predictable strategy ? that are stifling the players. He is too bloody cautious. There are 35 games left and I reckon that in 99% of those games Moyes will play a 4-5-1 formation. If I can predict that with a large degree of certainty then I am sure that opposing managers/coaches can do the same.

Moyes is only too happy to take the praise when results go our way ? it's time for him to take responsibility when things don't work out. I would be optimistic if we had a manager who wasn't so predictable and stubborn with his tactics.

Xavier Spencer
32   Posted 29/08/2010 at 19:01:30

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Unlucky today. Should have won by a couple.

Arteta was poor for me. Lots of ball but not one incisive pass. Beckford is still raw and needs to be given time. First half the service he received was very poor. I still think he will prove a good buy.

Distin was exposed for pace by Carew! We need Heitinga and Jags in middle at back to let them forge a partnership and we need to take the plunge and throw Coleman in from start.

Time to offload Yak, Yobo, Anichebe and Vaughan (none of them would've made bench today) and spend the money on Donovan and another striker. Donovan and Coleman down the right - sounds good to me.

Let's not panic, we are only three points behind RS and City. A long way to go. Disappointed and frustrated as the next fan but glad it's Man U next. We know we play better when we are up against better teams and we don't have to make the running. I'm still convinced we will have a good season.

David Hallwood
33   Posted 29/08/2010 at 19:04:16

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Peter Laing #29 is right about the strikers, and the jury's still out on Beckford, but he was given no help from our more experienced players. Beckford's pace had Dunne in trouble early in the game and he was booked, so why didn't Arteta instruct the players to play the ball early over the top into the channels (not hoofball) for Beckford to run on and stretch the Villa defence?

Finally, the Heitinga substitution was weird.

Michael Brien
34   Posted 29/08/2010 at 19:05:57

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Sorry that should have been "lone striker" - but I stand by what I have said about Moyes. During the 1st half Beckford had to come out wide to the right to get the ball - what is our striker doing out on the right wing? If Moyes had been around in the 1970's he would have tried to play Royle or Latchford as wide players. We have some talented strikers - with a manager who hasn't a clue how to get the best out of them.
Richard Reeves
35   Posted 29/08/2010 at 18:25:10

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No doubt that we will all click together and go on a unbeaten run, hopefully soon... but why do we take so long to find our feet? Thankfully, there are no injuries to hide behind or a lack of squad depth so this year there are no excuses for anyone to make... yet still some wrong selection choices.

Rodwell has more of an impact on the game in the centre of midfield than Cahill has in his position so Moyes should've played Rodwell there and left out Cahill. Anyone could see how good a player Coleman is and how much a threat he was down the right yet I still don't expect to see him in the starting eleven when we next play.

And as for the goal, I agree with another reader that Distin was way too slow to react. I've made a few predictions this year which so far look ridiculous but there is one that I am sure is not and it is this: If Moyes continually leaves out Coleman in preference for Neville or Hibbert and if Osman is also continually picked ahead of Billy and Rodwell, to name a couple, then people won't swallow it anymore and the hostility from our own supporters will grow.

I thought Moyes was more attack-minded today and we at least deserved a draw but Rodwell on the right, no Coleman in the starting eleven and bringing on Heitinga when we needed goals just bugs me. Good effort but are we not past that by now? Feels a bit like Groundhog Day.

Dave Lynch
36   Posted 29/08/2010 at 19:13:47

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Valiant effort: Nil return.
Sums up our last nine years.
Jon Cox
37   Posted 29/08/2010 at 19:00:16

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Moyesie, what the bloody hell were you playing at. Rodwell on the right wing?

I would love to know what the thinking was behind that decision.

Early on in the game or at least after the Villa goal either Arteta or Fella should have been off with Rodwell taking their place and Coleman comming on as right wing.

This is not bloody rocket science.

How frustrating was this game!
Xavier Spencer
38   Posted 29/08/2010 at 19:22:56

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Jon, why would you want to take Fellaini off? He was Everton's best player by a mile. And as for the jury still being out Beckford, what the fuck do people expect? He's been here two minutes and in the first half no one passed to him. Get a grip, on another day we would have won by two or three.
Oiver Molloy
39   Posted 29/08/2010 at 19:13:58

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Very disapointing result today,and not deserved. The team played well and as Sean (26) points out, on another day the ball will go inside the post by inches and not outside!!... and we will win the game!

My only concern is the lad Beckford looks a little out of his depth at the moment, and to date he hasn't showed that he can do the business at this level.

I would have thought that if Saha was 100% fit he perhaps should have started given his experience and the importance of this game; still it's Moyes who sees the players in training, and it's Moyes that has got us this squad together, and it will be Moyes that will sort it out!

I would not at all be surprised if we bought a right midfielder or striker before transfer deadline.
Keep the faith, COYB

David Crowe
40   Posted 29/08/2010 at 19:08:18

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This is the time to support the team. AND the manager. Calling for him to be sacked is just ignorant and stupid. He's the hardest working man at the club. Give him time. I still believe he's the most valuable member of staff at the club and is well worth whatever he's paid.

Get to Goodison for the United game and make it a cauldron and we can't go far wrong. We're close to being the team we were touting as top 4 challenger's weeks ago, maybe a bit of support and less abuse would help. This is certainly too early to be calling for the manager's head and too early to give up hope on achieving something.

John McLoughlin
41   Posted 29/08/2010 at 19:26:35

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There are no winners in the Everton team, all nice guys not ruthless enough. I don't care what anybody else thinks, we miss Neville.
John Daley
42   Posted 29/08/2010 at 18:58:33

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Beckfords control and first touch were admittedly poor today and he seems unable to hold the ball up and bring others into play. However, he is making a massive step up in class from League 1 and will obviously need more time to adjust. To be fair to the guy his main assets are pace and the ability to
convert chances and he hasn't been given the platform to utilise either of these.

He's not been given any service whatsoever and although he's attempting to make runs behind the backline our midfielders seen reluctant to attempt any through balls at all. Our only attacking options consist of a ball out wide (usually to the left) for the full back to punt into the penalty area or a big boot
downfield in the hope of Cahill getting a flick on.

The selection of Rodwell at right mid was simply baffling. If Moyes is going to play a central midfielder there then surely it should be Arteta who has at least played there before for prolonged periods and achieved some degree of success in
the position. Rodwell should have started in the middle alongside Fellaini and would actually have had plenty of space to drive into as the Villa midfield dropped back further and further. At least he's prepared to run with the ball and have a shot
from outside the area for fucks sake. He was wasted out wide today.
Andy Peers
43   Posted 29/08/2010 at 19:24:20

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Suggestion: sell Jags and Pienaar for £30 million for both and get Donovan for £10 million and a £20 million striker. We have Heitinga, Yobo and Duffy to partner Distin and other cover for Jags who was absolutely awful today (and they worry about Coleman's defensive skills!). I don't know about you guys but, once Coleman came on, our team just looked so much better going forward. I dread the Man Utd game, what stupid tactics will Moyes choose for that game.
Jon Cox
44   Posted 29/08/2010 at 19:34:10

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Xavier, see JohnDaley (42). I agree, Fella did play well today so I would have gone for Arteta off and drop Rodders in his place, where he could have done the box-to-box thing. The game was crying out for this.

For all the anti-Coleman fans, don't you think it was much better when Coleman came on? I can't believe Moyes made such infantile tactical errors. Where was his head at?

Overall though I did feel that it's only a matter of time until we get the rub of the green and things will start to go our way.

Also I thought Jags passed the ball on the ground as many times as he hoofed it.

Good job it's only Man Utd we've got next...
Andy Norbury
45   Posted 29/08/2010 at 19:42:56

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We will continue to struggle as long as we have no balance in the team. All of our positive play comes down the left as there is no pace or skill on the right unless Coleman is playing. Using Rodwell as a right winger with Hibbert, who is incapable of overlapping, means there is no way we can stretch the play; so whilst we dominated the game, it is easy to defend against us as the centre backs are never pulled out of position. The key to Everton's success at the end of last season was that Donovan created problems for the left back and scored a number of his goals as the extra man at the back post. With Hibbert and Osman/Rodwell there isn't that threat so the defence can keep tight and clear the danger. With Coleman on, the change was huge as all of a sudden we could attack down each flank and pull their defence wider to create some space in the box. Until Moyes fixes this we can huff and puff all we want but will always rely on a set piece or mistake/moment of genius to score. Same problem 3 games on the run now... when will the penny drop??
Jon Cox
46   Posted 29/08/2010 at 19:51:43

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A final thought, it could have been worse our name could have been Tottingham
Ian McDowell
47   Posted 29/08/2010 at 19:54:54

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John McLoughlin post 41, Spot on
Robert Daniels
48   Posted 29/08/2010 at 19:11:39

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I'll say it again: Johnny in front of the back four and Felli and rodders in the middle, build the team around them three. Coleman is a must to start as well, Arteta or Ossie could play at the head of a diamond shape, with Pienaar and Bily/Anichebe/Gueye wide, Saha/Beckford or whoever up front. When we were doing great at the end of last season, it was with Johnny in front of the back four.

Today, I thought Felli had a good game but at times he was trying to do too much, and at times the back four had no protection. Rodwell must play in the middle, instead of being wasted out wide.

Kenwright! ? go and get Donovan and stop fucking about!
Gerry Quinn
49   Posted 29/08/2010 at 20:08:47

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John #41 - totally agree - why do ALL other teams fight and run around - the players of Everton, and that means ALL of them need to realise that they are being outfought due to their own faults!
Stan Sheppard
50   Posted 29/08/2010 at 20:07:54

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I agree with the guys who said that when Seamus came on the difference was huge and he was very effective. Rodwell is not effective on the right, he did present some threat from corners with his height but even from the 18 corners we had how many saves were forced?

What I found difficult to believe was when Jonny H came on he was shouting to Seamus and mouthing and pointing for him to go to right back. Mad! Coleman actually added balance to the team when he came on. He has some great tricks and loves driving into the box.

A much better performance today. Beckford does look out of his depth but thats to be expected, especially in a team that isn't creating many scoring chances. He did go past Dunne well in the first half only to be taken out but apart from that did little, with Saha looking good when he came on.

Better, but, still no win and Villa were there for the taking today.
Ian Edwards
51   Posted 29/08/2010 at 20:33:54

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Questions for the ginger muppet:

1. Why was Rodwell on the right wing?

2. Why only one forward against a poor Villa team?

3. Are the team coached not to shoot from outside the box?

4. Why when we were one down was there still only one forward?

5. When with 10 minutes to go and losing did you take off a right back and replace him with a central defender whose lack of bottle cost us 3 points against Wolves when he backed out of a tackle on the half-way line?

6. Why do you continually play Cahill and not even take him off wehn he isnt playing well?

7. Why can't you pick a settled side?

8. Why don't you resign now?
Brendan O'Doherty
52   Posted 29/08/2010 at 20:32:20

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Good title Michael, and a fair report.

I have to pick you up though on "Osman and Saha benched in favour of Rodwell and Beckford". It was, from the Wolves game, Bilyaletdinov and Heitinga benched in favour of Fellaini and Rodwell.

Undeserved result, due to lack of a top striker for me.
Brendan O'Doherty
53   Posted 29/08/2010 at 20:53:44

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David Crowe (#40)

"maybe a bit of support and less abuse would help"

Well said.

A lesson Ian Edwards (#50) would do well to learn.
Des Farren
54   Posted 29/08/2010 at 20:40:56

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Outraged, angered, disappointed, hurt, annoyed... Yes. All of them. What to do?

Well... 4th place was never on despite better commentators than me saying it was. We try to do the best we can with what we have We played well but not well enough. We can apportion blame but what is the point?

Colin Malone
55   Posted 29/08/2010 at 20:57:35

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Felliani was drifting out of position, which left Jags wide open. He has got to learn to hold his position.

Why do ALWAYS try and walk the ball into the net?
Chris Butler
56   Posted 29/08/2010 at 20:52:44

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I agree with Joe... frankly this is exactly why I refuse to give any money to Everton anymore as they are incapable of spending it wisely. As I don't have the financial facts and can only comment in regards to what I've been told, it seems to me that Everton don't want to buy any new players. Does anyone actually know if we have any money for players? ? because I don't know. If we do have money to spend, I believe that Moyes has made a mistake not bringing anybody in or not selling players surplus to requirements to fund the transfers.
Jon Cox
57   Posted 29/08/2010 at 21:02:34

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Colin, the answer to your question is that everyone in football is BRAINWASHED to play like Arsenal.

We need half of this and a mentality fron the "dogs of war" attitude that we had when every season we were fighting a relegation battle.

It's a fine balance but on x amount of millions a year I expect no, demand that Moyes adheres to this particular balance of football.

To mbe honest and although I hate to say it maybe we need a couple of Joey Bartons in our side !
Matt Boden
58   Posted 29/08/2010 at 21:21:58

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Ah well... another record for the Meysiah to go with his lowest points tally and fewest goals scored, most conceded etc! This is now our worst start to a season for eleven years!

While we dominated the game, it was all very one dimensional and very predictable, until a certain Mr Coleman came on! (Sorry for banging the lad's drum again!) No Plan B. Striker for striker, right back for right back... no shape change!

Moving on, just another thing to point out regarding the Ginger One's failings, Osman is captain midweek and dropped today? Now we all know I am no Osman fan but look deeper: why name him captain if he is not in the big plan! Hand over the tapes, Leon!!!!!

Big Bill is a liar! No one is looking at investing in the club! Smoke screen journalism to make us think there is light at the end of the tunnel! There isn't even a tunnel!!!!

Oiver Molloy
59   Posted 29/08/2010 at 21:19:48

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Ian Edwards #50
Have you calmed down yet?,I'm still laughing at point 8 in your post.
I'm wondering could you please keep it going by telling us all what we we would do if Moyes granted your request !?
Steven Sturm
60   Posted 29/08/2010 at 21:31:45

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Oh, and not being English I don't get understand the "Ginger" thing. What's up with this? Sounds racist.
Trevor Lynes
61   Posted 29/08/2010 at 21:16:50

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Our midfield should be coached by SCHOLES in how to make space and pass accurately over distances....the forwards would then have balls passed in front of them to run onto...this is fundamental !!!! If Arteta could pick a killer pass like Scholes we would have murdered a very poor Villa side who are playing without confidence...they were there for the taking..
It DOES NOT matter how many strikers we sign....if they dont have ammunition they will not score and that was glaringly apparant.
We did miss a few chances by inches but so did Villa....the only really good chance in the whole game fell to Luke Young who scored !!
We are lapsing back into set piece scrambles and lots of very poorly directed corners and free kicks.
Any striker will score if he is supplied properly but our passing was slow and not incisive so Friedel had very little to do considering how much we had the ball....I was disappointed at Arteta's contribution today, he is much better than he showed.
Incidently Hibbert had a very good game defensively and deserves praise.
John Schrempft
62   Posted 29/08/2010 at 21:11:13

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At least Coleman was brought on, but too late....and he DID make a difference.

Ok, play 4-5-1 at the start of a game but with 1-0 after 9 minutes why not at least play Saha and Beckford up front together? The 3 points went down the pan in any case.

Even with 4-5-1 Aston Villa could quite easily have won 2-0 anyway.
Brendan O'Doherty
63   Posted 29/08/2010 at 21:44:28

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Steven (60#)

"Oh, and not being English I don't get understand the "Ginger" thing. What's up with this? Sounds racist."

Some people resort to childish personal abuse of their target when they get desperate Steven.

Jamie Tulacz
64   Posted 29/08/2010 at 21:55:57

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Not sure what game some people on here were watching, but by any unbiased analysis we were pretty unlucky there (even Sky Sports thought so which is almost unknown). 67% possession, 15 corners, plenty of chances, on another day it would have been a win for us.

Yes we could do with a consistent top-quality striker, but there aren't that many about, certainly not for the sort of money we have to offer, so can't see where Moyes is going to magic one up.

Have to say that I thought we were past the whole simplistic debate about 4-5-1/4-4-2 formation. If you look at most of the top teams they only play with 1 up front, it doesn't stop you from being an attacking team.

Did think that Coleman made a positive impact when he came on in midfield, would be good to see a bit more of him, unless we can magic up the funds for Donovan
Michael Kenrick
65   Posted 29/08/2010 at 22:07:10

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Can someone explain to me why some people pass this off with the thought that "on another day" things would have been different, we would have won... blah, blah, blah.???

While in some fantasy world it may well be true, in this real world the rest of us live in, there is no "other day" to play Aston Villa away this season in the league and somehow magically come home with all three points.

We've played this game on THIS day and failed to come home with three points. That's the reality of it. Inventing some fantasy that somehow neutralises the reality of another three points lost seems infantile to me. As if it's meant to be reassuring, reaffirming some positive outcome that you can cling to? Does it actually make you feel better about things?

Surely it's more informing to actually discuss what happened in the game today and gain a clearer understanding for the reasons behind yet another failure... or is that the cold hard reality you are having trouble with?
Steve Higham
66   Posted 29/08/2010 at 21:49:35

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Went to the game today and was amazed that Rodwell was right midfield. What is it with our manager playing people out of position? Rodwell played this position away to Hull last season and it did not work then.

The team again did not look balanced and this has been the problem since the start of the season. The only time the team looked balanced was when Seaumus came on. This did not last long as we brought Johnny on for Hibbert and instead of going three at the back to try and get something, Seamus got put back to full back.

Timmy did nothing today and Rodwell should of played off the striker. Arteta was awful virtually playing on top of Felli ? what was that about? Arteta is a great player but does he have to take every free-kick and corner? Is no-one else capable? Villa were poor today and were there for the taking out tactics and formation let us down today.
Steven Sturm
67   Posted 29/08/2010 at 22:26:42

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Can't speak for anyone but myself, Michael, but I don't get that excited or dismayed by any one result (or even three) because I see plenty of randomness and probability in this game. Take today's same teams, same strategies and play it out a hundred times and I believe Everton win about 70%. Yeah, didn't happen today, three points we should have had, but not justification to say the season is over or sack the manager.
David Hallwood
68   Posted 29/08/2010 at 22:34:19

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Just watched MotD and we were 2nd on!!! The bad news is that they didn't even mention us. Luke Young was MotM and they were raving about Albrighton. Fucking hate MotD
Jon Cox
69   Posted 29/08/2010 at 22:23:59

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Michael (63) good post, good reality. Moyes needs to put the Alien 2 film on and get into the way Ripley defeats the Alien. It's called guts.

For some reason Moyes is not doing the obvious. Why I dont know. Could it be that he thinks Coleman at 22 is to young and inexperienced. Shit, man... Pele was only 17 when he played in his first World Cup!!!

All of us have a problem here and that is the players that have been in the team for five years plus. We need to start looking at the youth. It's easy for me to say this because I'm 53 but we are, with all our players starting to look STALE.

We need Moyesie to see this and to make this season the one that we bring into the fold the young players that have no fear. No matter how great a footballer you are, when you get to a certain age, you start to think too much and this is what our team is starting to do.

Check out Rooney when he came out from the bench against the Arse. Did that strike you that he was frightened and thinking about football. NO! He came on and played the game just like he was playing like I did in the streets of the North West. He was Brilliant.

We seem to have lost this philosophy and, until Moyes understands this, then we will be forever the team that promises all but delivers nothing.

Signing off a really sad Evertonian.

Yusuf Bobat
70   Posted 29/08/2010 at 22:53:42

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Moyes got the starting 11 all wrong, Rodwell should have been in the middle alongside Arteta instead of Fellaini, he's was lost on the right, Heitinga should have started instead of Distin, Bily or Gueye should have been on from the start.

I was pleased when he brought Coleman on, I thought finally Moyes is being bold with his substitution but he then reverts to true form when replacing Hibbert with Heitinga when were chasing a goal.

I'm sorry but I'm no Moyes fan and while he remains in charge we'll never win any silverware or ever break into the top 4 again.
Dick Fearon
71   Posted 29/08/2010 at 22:55:17

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Post game, Moyes admitted that he hasn't a clue why we are not scoring more goals. For years on these pages I have been saying exactly the same thing about him. I cannot see that problem being solved until we bring in an assistant who may not have a coaching badge but does have a goal scoring pedigree.

As things currently stand, Moyes and it seems all of his defensive clones do not have a clue about penetration or creating clear cut openings.

Ray Griffin
72   Posted 29/08/2010 at 22:47:57

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My tuppence worth...

Villa were rubbish, played as if they were away from home and down to 9 men once they scored.

Having said that, our difficulities and weaknesses were exposed yet again, and they are...

No striker/centre forward - Beckford has the touch of a League 1 player & out of his depth.
Yakubu too slow, Saha ok but never plays 90 min, 3 games in a row etc. Forget Anichebe & Vaughan, let them go. Robbie Keane??

Tony Hibbert - Seamus Coleman is on the bench & even when he comes on, Hibbert stays on the pitch. I really rate Moyes but why the blindspot over a player who just hasn't the ability at Premier League level.

Fellaini, Cahill, Rodwell & Arteta all playing in midfield and tripping over each other. Rodwell exiled to wide right, Fellani & Cahill getting in each others way & Arteta looking unusualy unsure.

On the plus side, Baines, Distin, Cahill, & Rodwell played really well & overall a 2-0 win would have been a fair score.

On another note, if a multi-millionaire wants to buy Blackburn, why has Bill totally failed to get any interest from anyone, never mind investment despite his promises year in year out?

Last point, another crap pre-season schedule, we never play anyone decent until kick-off day & then are amazed how we always have a bad start. Brisbane Roar, EFC supporters club from Chile etc. Not good enough.
Jamie Tulacz
73   Posted 29/08/2010 at 23:22:19

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Dick- we scored 60 goals last season, which is not bad by anyone's account. Find it ridiculous that people are judging things 3 games into the season

Most teams go through spells where they're not scoring, but with a bit more luck on our side today we'd have knocked 2 or 3 in.
Jon Cox
74   Posted 29/08/2010 at 23:17:27

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Dick, spot on pal. Moyes needs a reality check and the sooner the better.
Ray Griffin
75   Posted 30/08/2010 at 00:00:03

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Spot on Michael (post 63) this is the Premier League and every club has a 'what if only' story.

It all evens itself out over 38 games and at the moment we aren't good enough to beat Blackburn, Wolves & Aston Villa so where does that leave us?
Gerry Western
76   Posted 30/08/2010 at 00:54:34

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Once again team selection defies belief, Rodwell wide right? I think we've seen that one before and it failed miserably. Yet again Moyes fails to make a positive change until Rodwell gets injured and he's forced into action.

Coleman enters the fray and at long last we finally see evidence of a threat from wide right. (That must have surprised a few here as we were constantly reminded last week on another thread that being a defender he couldn't possibly perform in that position.)

Suddenly my belief that we just might get something from the game is restored. However, the mood of expectation doesn't last very long as for some inexplicable reason he drops back to facilitate the introduction of a defensive midfield player, even though Fellaini is pretty much running the show. Once again we've absolutely no threat again down the right, Groundhog Day all over again in the space of 5 minutes.

Villa are then able to marshal their defence by simply focusing on repelling wave after wave of attacks down the left just as every other team we've played so far has done. One of the most frustrating games I've ever had to watch with the outcome all too predictable.
Thomas Williams
77   Posted 30/08/2010 at 01:05:26

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Drop Cahill and replace with Rodwell, Cahill is a 6-8th place player, time to move on.

Beckford is not ready and Saha is not doing it; offer Sunderland cash + Saha + Yobo for Darren Bent, he would suit us, can play with his back to goal and has pace and would reduce the wage bill.

Is anybody else concerned with Jagielka's form? I personally think he is all over the place. Whilst there were other errors leading up to today's goal, the ball was played into his position, and it could be argued the same against Wolves as well, also his passing is woeful.

My other concern is a bit controversial, but it will generate debate: does Arteta's style of slow sideways and back passing suit the way we play now? I just wonder whether he inhibits the tempo and also inhibits Pienaar. Just a thought... I'd be interested in your replies.

Jamie Sweet
78   Posted 30/08/2010 at 02:48:40

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I said for weeks we needed to hit the ground running this season, but that has not been possible as I believe Moyes still doesn't know what his best team is. We lack continuity and the right players for the formation we're trying to play.

There is an imbalance in the squad, i.e an embarrassment of riches in the centre of midfield, and a real lack of quality options out wide. Hence we start trying to put square pegs in round holes again - i.e Rodwell wide right.

We're trying to play a system which operates best with quality (and pacy) wide players, yet we have neither the quality or the pace to pull it off.

I'm looking forward to January when we can get Donovan back on loan and regain some balance to our side. Until then, I'm sad to say I don't see us troubling the European places.
Jamie Crowley
79   Posted 30/08/2010 at 04:39:34

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Am I the only man on the Earth who thought we played fantastically today?

More of the same please, and results will follow.

Christ, we looked like a free-flowing, attacking football club. We moved the ball beautifully.

No, we didn't get 3 points. But can anyone honestly say they didn't enjoy watching us today?

We looked fantastic! If Pienaar's shot, or either of the Freidel wonder-saves goes in are we not talking about how Moyes put out a great line-up? Or how that's the style of paly that will catapult is into the Top 4? Or how Moyes showed real verve by sticking Coleman in at RM?

This result was a crime. And I for one was thrilled with Everton today.
Gareth Humphreys
80   Posted 30/08/2010 at 07:06:01

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Michael Kenrick, the fact that you are saying that Everton were inspired by Seamus Coleman just tells me how blinkered you really are. The lad had one great run and that was about it ? his cut back failed to go to a blue shirt though.
He did ok without creating a goal ? a bit like the rest of the team really. Best Cross from the right hand side yesterday ? Tony Hibbert. Now I know that doesn't sit comfortably with you.
Mike Green
81   Posted 30/08/2010 at 07:06:51

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Well said Jamie Crowley.

Some of the bonehaeds on this site are almost as frustrating as todays result.

They bay for Fellaini and Rodwell to start - they get their wish. Nil return. They bay for Coleman to play RW - they get their wish. Nil return.

And their post match analysis is what? Moyes fault. Amazing.

We were great today up until the final third where we were sadly impotent. Had we managed to squeeze one in I think Villa would've folded like a pack of cards.

We should be used to getting frustrating results off the Villa by now any way, they were GASH today but credit to them they did what they needed to do and got the 3 points.

We'll be fine but if we want to emulate the Arsenals, Chelseas and Man Utd of this world we need to crack how to scores goals - and quick.

Dave Wilson
82   Posted 30/08/2010 at 08:45:51

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Gareth, from what I saw they kinda complimented each other. Hibbo proved an excellent insurance policy for Seamus allowing him to do his stuff... and how much did Hibbo appear to enjoy it? Three times in as many minutes he galloped past Seamus to offer the overlap - that's three seasons worth of attacks for Tony.

For ten minutes these two were terrific, we were getting down both sides, I really believed it was just a question of when.

Why oh fucken why did Moyes break up this partnership so soon after going with it?
Michael Brien
83   Posted 30/08/2010 at 09:13:25

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Jamie & Mike ? it's no good being great only up to the final third of the pitch... you have to be great in the final third as well ? it's goals that count. Every time Villa attacked, or the great majority of times, their attck would end up with an attempt on goal of some sort. For us, in the great majority of our attacks we seemed to be looking for the textbook pass to unlock the defence.

I lost count of the number of times we seemed to be in shooting positions only to look for a precise pass. It's no good having 67% possession and 18 corners if you don't make that count.

I am fed up and frustrated with Moyes and his over-cautious tactics. In 3 games we have conceded 3 goals - that's as many as Villa in half a game at Newcastle. Yet we have only scored 1 goal in thoses 3 games. Moyes says he can't understand why ? maybe he should take a long and hard look at his tactics?

Gerry Western
84   Posted 30/08/2010 at 09:53:38

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Get a grip Mike, The idea that a lot of people were clamoring for Rodwell to play wide right is bonkers.

As for Coleman, he was introduced toward the end as an enforced substitution and was played in two different positions within the short time he played and had an immediate impact. He did more in the 5 mins he played wide right than anyone I've seen play in that position. it's what you do in the final third that counts and up to now we've done sod all. Now that's what I call frustrating.

John Vanderwerff
85   Posted 30/08/2010 at 10:12:55

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Rodwell right side of midfield was a mistake. He's a very good player in the making but not out on the wing. Time to make a decision ? either play him where he should be, ie, central midfield or as a supporting midfielder to the attack, or leave him on the bench. When Coleman came on right midfield he was excellent ? maybe we have stumbled into his correct position.

And please let's buy a left back ? Baines can't cross and he can't defend!

Andy Crooks
86   Posted 30/08/2010 at 10:08:31

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I wasn't at the game but listened to some on 5 Live where even Alan Green hinted that we were unlucky. Seventeen corners and plenty of chances but nothing to show. It's typical really that the best performance so far yields nothing. It is up to David Moyes to keep confidence going and I believe he will.

I never believed we would be Champions, I thought top four was an outside chance at best. However, Europa League and/or one of the cups seemed to me to be attainable and I feel it still. The return of Vic on the right could help. As a matter of interest for anyone at the game, what did you think of Coleman?

Ian Edwards
87   Posted 30/08/2010 at 10:27:31

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The negative Moyes tactics will destroy the career of Beckford just as it did the careers of Johnson and Beattie..
Liu Weixian
88   Posted 30/08/2010 at 11:40:41

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I hope we don't get relegated.

Why in Hell was Beckford allowed to start when Coleman was left on the bench until Rodwell's injury forced Moyes's hand?

One point in three games. Oh wonderful, Moyes! Wonderful!

Coleman should start from now on. If Beckford got his chances I don't see why Coleman should waste his talent sitting on the bench.
Gareth Humphreys
89   Posted 30/08/2010 at 12:15:56

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Ian Edwards ? take a look at Beattie and Johnson since they left Everton. And now admit you are wrong.
Amit Vithlani
90   Posted 30/08/2010 at 12:33:14

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This reminded me of the Liverpool game at GP last season. That game turned on Yobo's og vs Fellaini's gift... there was a terrific stop by Reina from Fellaini vs Friedel's point blank stop from Saha... we dominated and deserved more, etc etc. Pienaar's cracking effort could have been goal of the season.

If memory serves, that Liverpool defeat turned our season around and we began to pick up points thereafter. Here's hoping for the same.

That said, we were too cautious and, after the international break, there is no going back. The transfer window will be shut, so no unsettling transfer stories, no more international games for a while so the players have the league to concentrate on. Match sharpness should be back for the likes of Heitinga and Fellaini.

It's gonna be an interesting few weeks...
Tony Gee
91   Posted 30/08/2010 at 16:04:31

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We'll never do anything till Cahill and Moyes are gone....

4-5-1 my fuckin arse, you clueless ginger oaf.
Ian Edwards
92   Posted 30/08/2010 at 17:09:27

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Gareth... Johnson and Beattie were expensive signings and England Internationals. After Moyes finished with them, we could hardly give them away.

Beckford has been left marooned up front on his own like Robinson Crusoe.

Moyes has no Plan B. In the cup final his sole response to going behind was to bring on Gosling for Hibbert.

On Sunday, when we needed a goal with 10 minutes to go, he took off a right back and put on a central defender ? and one that has the heart the size of a peanut.

Why wasn't Gueye brought on??? He has looked lively in pre-season and against Huddersfield?

Rodwell on the right wing!!?? Moyes is having one huge laugh.
Andy Crooks
93   Posted 30/08/2010 at 17:52:21

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Ian, you are absolutely spot on... but... it was an improvement; now it is about confidence and David Moyes must install it. I think we will beat Manchester United against the odds. Whatever one's views are of David Moyes (sorry Brendan, I meant David) now is not the time to be negative. We have a decent squad and we can turn things around.
Michael Kenrick
94   Posted 30/08/2010 at 18:11:22

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The problem, Andy (#92), is that the one bloke who's negativity really counts is Moyes. And with him, it seems endemic. He wonders why we can't score goals but can you imagine, for example, what training Jermaine Beckford has received at Finch Farm by way of preparation for his new career in the Premier League?

Will it have focussed do you think, on the right patterns of off-the-ball movement going in to the opponents area, shooting practice form all angles (he's probably good at that already!), positioning and the like to gain the advantage?... or will it have involved sorting out the lad's defensive duties, making sure he "tracks back", and above all, is inside the Everton penalty area for all opposition corners and throw-ins.

The leopard is not for changing.

Liu Weixian
95   Posted 30/08/2010 at 18:15:36

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There is no point of having a decent squad when the manager keeps playing people in the wrong positions.

There is no point in having a decent squad when the manager is tactically clueless.

There is no point in having a decent squad when we set up the wrong formation and refuse to have a go at inferior teams until we are a goal down.

There is no point in having a decent squad when the chairman is a lying twat.
Gareth Humphreys
96   Posted 30/08/2010 at 18:14:05

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Ian, Everton made a profit on Andy Johnson and lost £1.5m on Beattie.

He took off a right back and put on another midfielder to put a different midfielder (Fellaini) up top. Who would you have played on the right wing?? Would you have replaced Pienaar for Gueye?

Rodwell deserved his chance and the only spot available was right mid ? not right wing ? there is a difference. You don't like Moyes ? fair do's but don't spout a load of shite and try and mould it into the truth.

Jamie Tulacz
97   Posted 30/08/2010 at 18:21:58

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I'm struggling to understand this whole negativity theory. 19 corners, 67% possession doesn't suggest negativity to me, maybe a lack of quality and penetration up top but not negativity. 60 goals in the league last season also doesn't suggest negativity to me.

Please can people stop judging things after 3 games of the season. Ok if we're in this position after 10 games then fine, but 3 games is not a disaster, and we're only 4 points off 5th ffs! If we keep playing as we did yesterday the results will start to come.
Michael Evans
98   Posted 30/08/2010 at 18:18:45

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Michael Kenrick - I think you may have stumbled onto the Club's new motto with "Valiant Effort: Nil Return" - can someone more erudite than I translate that into Latin?

Think about it - NSNO? Really? Are you sure about that? Put another way, if the players ran out to Tina Turner's "Simply the best" wouldn't we cringe with embarrassment?!

However, VENR suits us perfectly. We can then continue to occasionally flatter to deceive, have that rare good win against the BIG boys, sometimes almost get there in a tantalising way ...... but then fail. Our motto would depict what we have become under DM - everyone's perennial favourite losers, loveable and cuddly.

After all, it's not the winning that matters to us... it's the taking part that counts. So let's celebrate the art of NOT winning in the best VENR way and keep re-negotiating those already massive salaries and reward the continuing failure.

Valiant Effort:Nil Return - makes you feel proud, doesn't it?

Andy Crooks
99   Posted 30/08/2010 at 18:49:18

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Michael, I think the lack of tracking back may well have led to the Yak's demise. It has always been my view that a team with ambition must afford a luxury player. The Yak was ours we don't have one now. I would nominate Bily.
Stephen Kenny
100   Posted 30/08/2010 at 19:40:44

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Villa were terified of Seamus Coleman and didn't have any idea how to deal with him. The 15 or so mins that he was marauding down the right hand side was the only time we've really looked liked a dangerous side. Sadly we all know full well we probably won't see him again until injuries force our hand.

Andy, I agree about the Yak. I think many Evertonians don't see 20+ goals as a good contribution unless he was running his bollock's off also. The criticism's of him are usually fat, lazy, can't be arsed etc. What does it matter as long as he scores regularly?
Michael Brien
101   Posted 30/08/2010 at 19:47:57

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It sems that to some Evertonians to criticise David Moyes is to call for his head. A manager just like any of the players can have a bad game and ? whilst I would agree that Arteta wasn't up to his usual standard and Baines looked devoid of ideas when near the Villa penalty area ? I would say that David Moyes had a poor game as well.

I can't understand the substition of Hibbert ? unless he was injured. In effect Coleman was brought on to play wide midfield on the right... then a matter of minutes later he was moved back to right back. Goodness knows what position Heitinga was told to play in. Face facts, Moyes was outwitted by in effect a "rookie" manager.

Brendan O'Doherty
102   Posted 30/08/2010 at 23:54:10

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"We'll never do anything till Cahill and Moyes are gone....

4-5-1 my fuckin arse, you clueless ginger oaf."

Clueless abuse.
Alex Weatherby
103   Posted 31/08/2010 at 21:46:09

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Ian at #51 how about you get behind and support the team mate?? We're playing well and when we click we'll be flying.

I am only 15 years old but am disgusted and shoked by all these "fans" abusing Moyes! Yea sure, he isn't perfect and I agree and wish he would play 2 up front sometimes and gave Coleman a game, but how can anyone insult, just remember where we were when he came?? Near relegation and crap football. Now we have regular European football, broke into top 4, and the FA Cup Final and a quality team. Moyes haters sort yourselves out!! have some respect to the guy, he's a legend.

Andy Crooks
104   Posted 01/09/2010 at 00:21:38

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Alex, at 15 David Moyes is no doubt the best you have seen but there have been better and there will be better. I respect and admire your support for him but there really aren't many Moyes haters. I think doubters describes it better.
Alex Weatherby
105   Posted 01/09/2010 at 16:41:31

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andy thanks for the response. i agree that moyes has faults and accept that at 15 i most probably have less knowledge than most older true fans. However, i do know about the greats harry catterick and howard kendall. But people do need to remember how well moyes has done on such a small budget. Neither of my two posts are aimed at true, intelligent fans like yourself but the few morons who embarassingly call for moyes to be sacked. With clueless abuse as brendan #102 rightly says

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