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Goal Drought Continues

Well... a point at Fulham? A first clean sheet. Some signs of improvement perhaps...

But Everton are now bottom of the league and our unfit lone striker Yakubu failed to score from numerous chances, while Beckford didn't even get a look-in.

At least Moyes tried something we've been crying out for: Coleman at Right midfield... and the lad looked good, especially getting to the byeline and crossing. But we need strikers to convert... and they just weren't doing it today.

Osman was dropped to the bench and looked a little better for it coming on for the final half-hour into the middle when Cahill was withdrawn... but it really should have been Beckford for two upfront.

Heitinga was dropped as well... some rumbling of discontent there(anyone able to elaborate?) while I thought Distin put in another good defensive display on the back aof a strong performance against Newcastle, suggesting that Man Utd was just one of those nightmare games.

To be honest it was a turgid game that was enough to give anyone ADD. Certainly not enough to inspire much confidence going forward... but the only way we can go now is UP!
Michael Kenrick     Posted 25/09/2010 at

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Reader Comments

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Ian Edwards
1   Posted 25/09/2010 at 17:42:32

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The tactics and team formation that Moyes employs retains a lot of midfield possession but doesn't create enough chances.

His substitutions are always like for like and don't change the game. I really fear for us and relegation is a distinct possibility.
Brian Waring
2   Posted 25/09/2010 at 17:43:32

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Moyes has to grow a pair of balls.
Peter Webster
3   Posted 25/09/2010 at 17:40:51

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Everton are a eunuch team - all foreplay and no penetration. And if you can't stick it away it'll all come to nothing an you'll eventually get fucked off. Good job they were shite.

Not to mention Moyes' OCD - must play Osman (wash hands), must play 4-5-1 (wash hands).

Bottom of the league, bottom of the league, Ee aye fuckin adio, etc.
John McLoughlin
4   Posted 25/09/2010 at 17:44:38

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Its against the law for Moyes to play 2 up front, even when we desperatly need agoal he'd rather put Osman on before a striker. Bottom of the league, no goals in 4 out of 6 games, 4 goals in 6 games, no wins, lets be positive at least Billy Liar is in hiding as usual when the going gets tough
Ian Edwards
5   Posted 25/09/2010 at 17:46:41

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I just heard Moyes on the radio talking about wanting to try and get to 40 points. It's official ? it is a relegation battle. Sack him NOW.
Jon Cox
6   Posted 25/09/2010 at 17:46:50

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Dont think we'll get relegated but what sticks in my craw is the fact that the shite are dropping as many points as us.

In a season that they are like that, we have to be the bloody same.

Does anyone know how to get a copy of that devils contract because we could sure do with signing it.
Ryan Holroyd
7   Posted 25/09/2010 at 17:54:29

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'The premier league is upside down'.
Peter Webster
8   Posted 25/09/2010 at 18:05:57

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The only thing that will lift my gloom is if Alex Reid gets the shit kicked out of him tonite.
Jon Cox
9   Posted 25/09/2010 at 18:10:49

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MotM has to go to big Fella. He was awsome today.
Albert Perkins
10   Posted 25/09/2010 at 17:54:16

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Even SAF was disappointed with our efforts. Even he was thinking we would be up there with the big boys this season.
At least we got Seamus playing and the Guardian reported he was a bright spot in today's proceedings.
Can't help thinking Beckford would have converted one of Yak's chances.
Even the papers are saying Yak is slow and immobile.

All our talk about wanting joined-up football. Got to be careful what you wish for. We can't walk it into the net.
Put Beckford on and play to his strengths. Put some balls over the top and let him chase. But play them through from the midfield, not the back.

Please, please let us beat Liverpool. I feel like I'm clutching at straws.
Danny Burke
11   Posted 25/09/2010 at 18:21:23

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I've just taken one one of my special optomism pills: We will give someone a real pasting soon, I'm hoping it's Liverpool.
Marc Williams
12   Posted 25/09/2010 at 18:10:12

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Peter 3#, Funny post, I can just imagine him with with OCD over 'Little Leon' & 4-5-1.

As to your other analogy, I guess it's Moyes idea of 'sexy football' & at least it's marginally better than .... hoofing it straight up there, with no foreplay!

Chris Halliday
13   Posted 25/09/2010 at 18:29:05

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Are we ever going to see 2 strikers again under Moyes? It seems not. Therefore, we are relaying on one striker to get the majority of goals this year... On the evidence so far, I think 10 goals from the Yak or Saha will be best we can hope for, which means the midfield are going to have to chip in with their fair share. Cahill might get 10 as well but this isn't going to be enough to do anything this year.

Sorry boys but I reckon were in the middle of another false dawn again watching the blues.
John McLoughlin
14   Posted 25/09/2010 at 18:34:29

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The worst Liverpool team in my 40-year lifetime and they are still better than us...
Chris Ashton
15   Posted 25/09/2010 at 18:37:44

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We should be optimistic here! So what if we are bottom of the league? The next game is a guaranteed 3 pointer against a Birmingham team officially unbeaten at home in a year now, then we play the shite who beat us with 10 men last year. As they say, things can only get better!

Seriously, do you think we won't beat either of these and stay bottom of the league? We either break the brummies record or we beat the shite, either way i'd put money on us winning before the next break.
Peter Webster
16   Posted 25/09/2010 at 18:37:42

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Cheers Marc (12)

Some cunt deffo needs fingering tho'.
Lee Gorre
17   Posted 25/09/2010 at 18:45:25

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Beckford would have made no difference. It is clear from what we have seen of him so far that he doesn't have the brains or guile to play at this level. Moyes obviously doesn't trust him which begs the question why was he bought in the first place.

In different circumstances a point wouldn't have been that bad today, but we are bottom of the league after 6 games, the only team not to have won a game and haven't scored in 4 out of 6 games. Fucking embarrassing.

Brian Waring
18   Posted 25/09/2010 at 19:06:00

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Lee, the problem for Beckford is that he is used to playing as a front 2, under Moyes, that's never going to happen.
Daniel Johnson
19   Posted 25/09/2010 at 19:10:00

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Look at West Brom: they had a go and were 3-0 up at the Emirates. They also have 10 points ? 7 more than us.

A new manager please...
John Brennan
20   Posted 25/09/2010 at 19:08:18

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I didn't see the game, but got the impression from Sky (Merson) we had a good first half, and they got better in the second. We should have won, but for 2 or 3 cracking saves from Schwarzer.

Brian, 17, I agree, I don't think Beckford would have made a difference because of the way we play. Beckford can be excused for thinking WTF he was brought in for if his "strenghths" aren't going to be utilised.

Perhaps in December when Saha plays his first 30 minutes for us, our points total might have made it into double figures!

Rob Hollis
21   Posted 25/09/2010 at 19:15:45

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My Mrs asked me if I was embarrased to support Everton. 'Never' I said. 'Well I am embarrased for you' she replies.

Truth is I am. Osman, who never scores, instead of Bily, who can produce out of nothing. Coleman finally gets a shot at right-mid after we have all thought it was a good idea for weeks.

I am embarrased, not because we are bottom but because our Manager is an idiot who will have a situation waved in front of him for months before he gets it.

Just take a walk Mr Moyes. You can not pick up that pay packet with any justification or dignity. Get lost!

Gavin Ramejkis
22   Posted 25/09/2010 at 19:21:54

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Daniel #19, got to agree, everyone in the league is scoring goals besides us, Beckford isn't a bad player when he's given a chance playing alongside a holding striker ? fucking YouTube could show you that or a scouting mission when he was at Leeds, the stubborn shite 4-5-1 is killing us.
Peter Fearon
23   Posted 25/09/2010 at 19:18:58

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TFF Yakubu is playing for a transfer. He will be out in January, which is what he wants, so why play the fat useless get? Even Moyes admitted after the game Yakubu is out of condition. Why?

Let him eat as much as he wants until the transfer window opens and let Beckford find his feet. I am so tired of seeing Yakubu lumber about doing nothing and missing chances I could put in with my you-know-what. The sooner we unload him to the lower half of the Championship where he belongs the better.

Bottom of the league? I don't think that even Walter Smith had us actually bottom. David Moyes: The time has come for you to go. Bill: the time has come for you to act.

Andy Crooks
24   Posted 25/09/2010 at 19:29:14

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Coleman plays right midfield and does well. We have called for it for weeks here. David Moyes earns a fortune and slowly gets it right. He will revert to hoofball and sneak a few points. Great times to be an Evertonian.
Christopher McCullough
25   Posted 25/09/2010 at 19:34:21

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If we win anything with these players I'm not sure if I'll give a fuck. Yakubu played well today.

Everton deserved to win.

Some assholes winge about 'buying' a 1st division player then moan when he isn't put on as sub. Fuckin clowns.
Brian Waring
26   Posted 25/09/2010 at 19:36:10

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Rob, it was the same with Arteta when Moyes had him playing on the right. There was loads on here suggesting he should be moved into the middle, Moyes finally does it, and we then see the best of Arteta.
Eric Myles
27   Posted 25/09/2010 at 19:35:32

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John #9, you forgot that sarcasm doesn't have a font to translate well on the internet.
Robert Elliott
28   Posted 25/09/2010 at 19:38:41

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Only team in all four divisions not to win a game yet.

All the media talk is about Hodgson being under pressure across the park, never a mention about Moyes. Why is that?

Is it because they think Moyes is as good as we can get, or is it because everyone knows BK will never, ever sack him and Moyes will never walk.

Whatever way you dress it up, we are getting nowhere fast. Sick to death with hearing how we had most of the game, but couldn't score. It's as repetitive as an evening spent watching UK Gold.

Moyes has been worried about our strikers for a long time? Well why didn't he do something about it? He knew Saha was unreliable, he knew Yak would struggle to get over his injury, he knew Beckford would take time to adjust to the Prem.

I accept we never provide him with a penny to spend, so why didn't he generate funds by selling players in areas where we have cover? Personally I would've accepted us flogging Rodwell to Man Utd or Chelsea if the funds were spent on a Prem class striker coming in.

I don't think for a second we are going down, but with the Sunderlands and Fulhams of this world improving this year, and with West Brom and Newcastle proving to be a cut above the normal standard of promoted teams, I can easily see us slipping into the bottom half at the end of the season.
Jonathan Tasker
29   Posted 25/09/2010 at 19:56:28

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As I have stated previously, Moyes has lost the right to continue. I'm onto who the next manager should be. After today's results, excuse me for reminding you thatl ast week I suggested Roberto Di Matteo.

You will note that he seemes to be able to sign strikers that can actually score goals.

My only other thought is whether Moyes is going to leave us so far behind that it is impossible for the next manager to catch up.
Peter Fearon
30   Posted 25/09/2010 at 19:44:17

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Christopher McCullough - the more we deserved to win, the more egregious Yakubu's impotence. Chances were created for him. He is just a yard too slow and could care less about the result.

As for Beckford. This asshole never moaned about signing a player from a lower league, but I do believe Moyes has damaging Beckford's confidence by failing to give him consistent playing time. He isn't going to acclimatize to the Premier League by watching from the bench.

And Yakubu is not going to get significantly better. He wants out.

Moyes had the nerve to imply Anichebe's prolonged absence is one of the reasons we are not scoring. I'm not that keen on Anichebe, but when he is available Moyes doesn't even use him as a striker. He sounds like Walter Smith, who used to claim that the absence of whoever was injured that week was the reason we lost. The following week, the excuse was the same but the name had changed.

John Andrews
31   Posted 25/09/2010 at 20:06:14

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Well we are now rock bottom of the Premier League! Surely something, anything must happen now?

Is this the Victor Anichebe who managed one goal all of last season?

Declan Brown
32   Posted 25/09/2010 at 20:04:28

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Anyone hear Moyes's interview with Talksport after the game? Soul destroying.

He is confident we will get out of this mess but although it won't be anytime soon, but we will get out of it at some point.

I despair. God knows what the players make of that attitude. After over 24 years of supporting this club, I feel nothing but frustration, helplessness, anxiety, fury and apathy towards it.

Don't think I could go through another season with Moyes in charge. He needs to go or get someone in with attacking tactical nous to help him because he clearly hasn't a clue to go with the very basic 4-4-2.

Worrying times ahead indeed.
Colin Malone
33   Posted 25/09/2010 at 20:01:13

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I know Bily is not everyone's cup of tea, but I'm sure he would have bagged a few by now because he is the only player who will shoot on sight, and that is what we are missing instead of piss-balling around the 18-yard box.
Ian Edwards
34   Posted 25/09/2010 at 20:15:42

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Well said, Declan.

The supporters must mount a campaign to get rid of Moyes. if we are still bottom after the derby game then at home to Stoke must be an anti-Moyes barrage.
Marc Williams
35   Posted 25/09/2010 at 20:15:30

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Colin Malone, I think he could do a job for us if played in Cahill's role, behind the striker in a 4-5-1.
Christopher McCullough
36   Posted 25/09/2010 at 20:06:09

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I'm not one to quote out of context, I have read your full post and respect your opinion, however,

"And Yakubu is not going to get significantly better. He wants out"

If you're Yak's mate, fair enough, but if not, that seems to be a wild form of speculation to me.

I was going to write an article relating to the causal link between Kenwright and Moyes but I don't think I'd do myself justice because I'm studying frantically at the minute and I'm thankful to take intermittant breaks on ToffeeWeb. In brief though, the first task is surely to get shot of Kenwright for someone who can invest in the team. Are successful billionaire investors known for pandering to incompetent managers? But give Moyes a chance, certainly. Andy et al could well be right. My loyalty is to Everton not Moyes.

Switch the causal link around, though. Moyes out before Kenwright. I can only see catastrophe ahead. Kenwright got lucky with Moyes. The man can not run a football club. We are already bottom of the league. Moyes, for all his faults, will build momentum again this season. We aren't playing that badly.

I wasn't calling you, or anyone in particular, an asshole. And I apologise to Chris Marston who I called a twat earlier. I thought we'd scored fuck's sake.
Barry Thompson
37   Posted 25/09/2010 at 19:55:30

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Strangely enough, I'll bet the Toon army never thought for a minute that they would go down either.

This team has fired blanks in four out of six Prem games to date. Yakubu won't get enough goals to pull us out of the shit, Saha wasn't exactly knocking them in for fun before he was injured, and neither was Anichebe for that matter. There are not many coming from the midfield players either.

The only clean sheet we have kept this season (today) was against a team whose main strikers are all out injured and, as a consequence, are lacking fire power themselves, which was fortunate for Everton as our defence isn't looking too great at the moment either. Who the fuck is going to turn it around because, even though Moyes says this is his best squad he has had, I think we have become stale, predictable and totally lack pace.

Other managers have us well sussed now and have game plans on how to contain us and nullify our attack. So I ask again, who is going to pull us out of the shit because we are too good to go down... (Aren't we?)

Rob Hollis
38   Posted 25/09/2010 at 20:27:36

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Colin Malone:
You are spot on. However if he does get on he may not shoot. I remember somebody, I think it was Carsley after scoring against Birmingham, pointing out that they had been instructed not to shoot from outside the area.

I think we may not win the league now.
Charles King
39   Posted 25/09/2010 at 20:12:14

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Someone put Moyes and us out of our misery, get big Joe in for now because Moyes is gone in all but salary.

The players know it, supporters know it.

Anyone still waiting for the 10 games assessment?
Andy Callen
40   Posted 25/09/2010 at 20:27:54

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I?m embarrassed to be an Evertonian because I have to share my Club with some of the muppets on here? FUCKING GET A GRIP PEOPLE!!

We will not get relegated, Moyes is a good manager!!

We have the same team and management set up as last season. The same people that put together the amazing run we had from the turn of the year. Apart from City no other team in the league has really strengthened their side. Why is it now you all think we are so crap?

We have been unlucky in all but the Newcastle game. For people to say we should be playing 4-4-2 is ridiculous ? do you not remember what happened to England during the World Cup!? Unfortunately in modern football you have to make sure you win the battle in midfield (even Spain play like this ? they just have more forwards on the pitch, and better players) then make sure you can get support to your striker. In large parts we have been doing this, it just seems like everyone has left their scoring boots on holiday.

I have no doubt we will turn our form around and start climbing the table. A good result and performance against Birmingham then a home derby ? what more can you ask for? NSNO
Gavin Ramejkis
41   Posted 25/09/2010 at 20:30:45

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Colin Malone, that's the exact spot he plays for his country and former club, he's not a winger but does have a great shot on him. Rob, I've screamed for years for players to shoot further out and this season has seen us try to wak the ball in far more often than any other season, the stats on our goals and shots from outside the area in DM's time must be piss poor as I can hardly remember any.

Chris McCullough, I think the only way to remove BK from Goodison would be in a coffin and as such a replacement to DM would be the likes of Joe Royle short term but at least getting the fight back in the players and playing them where they should be on the park.
Rob Hollis
42   Posted 25/09/2010 at 20:35:03

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'We will not get relegated!'

Fan bloody tastic! Some of us aspire a little higher.
Charles King
43   Posted 25/09/2010 at 20:31:45

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"We will not get relegated, Moyes is a good manager!!"

If I write a book summarising Davey's time at Everton may I use this as the title please?
Daniel Johnson
44   Posted 25/09/2010 at 20:41:32

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Let's face it ? this is getting pretty serious.

When the new teams come up the pundits always say "I can't see where the goals will come from" ? well, neither can I with this team.

To make matters worse, Blackpool, West Brom and Newcastle have all had decent starts.

Due to the fact we fluffed our relatively easy start, the difficult fixtures ahead now take on greater significance.

Moyes has held yet ANOTHER CRISIS MEETING ? how many is that over the past 7 fucking years.
Jamie Tulacz
45   Posted 25/09/2010 at 20:36:17

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Andy Callen: first voice of sense on here. Thought we played reasonably well, and that if the Yak had been a little sharper today we'd have come out with a deserved 3 points. Great to see Coleman start and put in a really good performance and thought Fella was excellent in his right position.

Find it amazing that so many fans actually seem to be biased against our team nowadays. Read the BBC report for a less biased version of the match.

As for the whole 4-4-2/4-5-1debate, could someone explain how 4-5-1 has suddenly turned into a bad formation this season having made us one of the best teams in the league second half of last season. Don't really see that playing two out-of-form strikers is going to make us into a better team than at the moment.
Colin Malone
46   Posted 25/09/2010 at 20:49:24

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Also, if you look at the stats, Arteta's goals from free kicks are piss poor. I love him as a footballer but he has got to be told, Bily and Bainesy are going to take a few.
Huw Geego
47   Posted 25/09/2010 at 20:49:00

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Low point of the game today: Before the start of the match, Moyes came out of the tunnel, which is in a corner opposite the bench, about a minute after everyone else, on his own. He was so late out he hadn't reached the bench before the match started. Whilst all the players and officials walked diagonally accross the pitch, Moyes walked right in front all the Blues fans behid the goal, smirking and waving. There were some luke warm applause, but most like me were mortified ? showboating like the Team were at the top of the League. This man is never going to walk away.

Playing one lone forward ? the painfully slow Yakubu - for the whole of the match, meant we all knew we were not going to score anything other than off a mistake for one of them, which never happened. Coleman did pretty well in the obvious position he's suited for, astonishingly subbed for the permanently ineffectual Billy on 88 mins (why?) whilst Osman coming on for Cahill, told you the extent of Moyes ambitions. MotM by a mile for me today, Pienaar, who never stopped running, made some important tackles and interceptions, and really looked like he gived a shit.

Unless Moyes comes up with a different system of play, soon, we're going down.
Paul Oakes
48   Posted 25/09/2010 at 20:42:20

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Christopher McCullough - Its all very well and good to get shut of Kenwrong, but for now your barking up the wrong tree. This performance and ineptitude of Moyse has fuck all to do with him.

Give Moyse even more money to waste..err not a chance.

The buck starts and stops with Moyse he is the guy in charge of the first team. It wouldnt matter what the fuck Moyse had for a team, it would be the exact same result.

1 Doesn't understand tactics period
2 Doesn't know how to change matches on the fly, absolutely fucking clueless comes to mind.
3 4-5-1 worked when the team picked itself due to injuries.
4 His reliance on favourite shit players.
5 Playing players out of position every single team selection.
6 Fails to see or understand simple situations that presented themselves the season before. Such as no fucking strikers. The bunch of shit we have are simply not good enough!!
7 Continuously playing shit teams in pre season, us hammering them and moyse saying we had a good pre season. Until they get twated by a superior team like Wolfsburg.
8 constant breaking of unwanted club records.

I could go on an on, and the facts speak for themselves. The mailaise of Everton Supporters those that can't and won't see the tree before the forest clearly don't give a rat's arse about what happens because they are happy with shit starts and finishing 6 or 7..what the hell has happened to this club and it's supporters?

It's time to wake up and kick this shower of shit out of the board room and the ginger minger ..we'll never win a thing. Id rather take a gamble and get a sugar daddy than die a very painful death as a club..did i mention we are dying? I wouldn't know what else to call it right now. Sometimes you get to a certain level then fuck it all up with stubborness and unwillingness to change the way you do things, in this case refusing to accept you have piss poor skills in tactics and clearly man to man issues.

It's time to get shot of both the board and the manager..all egotistical shitheads that will eventually kill us. Make absolutely no bones about it, we go down thats it for the club. Financially Everton could not survive outside the premiership thats a fact every one needs to take on board.

So get it together next home match time to get them all out.
Andy Callen
49   Posted 25/09/2010 at 20:58:54

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Ok, how about we will not get relegated, Moyes is a good manager and we will finish in the top 8 again. We are only 8 points off the top four which include City, a team we beat home and away, United, a team we have already picked up a point against, and Arsenal, a team who have lost to West Brom at home. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but some of you on here seem to want Everton to fail just so you can say ?I told you so?. As mentioned by someone else, when the team finally clicks again someone is in for a hiding ? please let that someone be the RS!NSNO
Jamie Tulacz
50   Posted 25/09/2010 at 21:04:51

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Seriously get a grip people. We're 5 points off 6th and name me one side outside of the top 4 who are playing well?

Quote from Mark Hughes after the game:

"Everton showed that they're in a false position and it's clear they're a very good side.

"They're at the wrong end of the table but I don't anticipate that lasting for long.

"In most of the games I've seen of them on video and TV they've played well and had impact. They've been unlucky not to get more points.

"They probably just need a win to get them going again."
Michael Brien
51   Posted 25/09/2010 at 20:50:21

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We have lost 3 games this season - all by 0-1. In the 6 League games we have conceded 7 goals or just one more goal than Aston Villa conceded in one match !! In 4 out of 6 games we have failed to score. I think it is fair to say we don't need to put Sherlock Holmes on the case to see where the problem is do we!?

The 4-5-1 formation may well have worked in the past - but it surely isn't working now. Is it any wonder that our strikers are out of form - Moyes can only with start with one of them after all. Which means that whoever is left on the bench will not be getting much " game time" as they say these days.

Beckford is very much a "rookie" at this level but he has my sympathy as playing the loan striker role is very demanding for even strikers of International experience let alone a player of such inexperience at this level. A really outstanding manager would recognise that. Moyes is a good manager - but just as some players are good but not good enough for a higher level such as Internationals so it is with some managers.

I hope Moyes can turn things around, but I am afraid that he will not be able to do so. We may well be seeing the limitations of his coaching/managerial ability. I think that we have a good squad - I don't hate Moyes I just simply believe that he is too cautious and too predictable and that another manager can get more out of the players.

I know that it is a different sport, but for several seasons Eddie O'Sullivan coached the Irish Rugby Team to near success in the 6 Nations - winning a couple of Triple Crowns - but missing out on the big one. Another coach - Declan Kidney - was appointed and with virtually the same squad won the Grand Slam (I am happy to say) in 2009. Clearly he was able to get more out of those players than the previous coach. I think it is the same with Everton, a different coach, with different tactics will get more out of the players.
Paul Oakes
52   Posted 25/09/2010 at 21:08:37

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and the point i made above reflected by those posts above...
Paul Oakes
53   Posted 25/09/2010 at 21:10:12

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Jamie Tulacz - who the fuck cares what that back stabbing wanker says?

Every fucking year we have the ginger minger fucking things up.

Get a grip? its you that needs to a grip on reality..we are truly fucked...and its because of Moyse end of and if you cant spot something so simple as that then you have serious problems.
Michael Brien
54   Posted 25/09/2010 at 21:08:54

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Sorry that should be lone striker - we seem to have that few of them in our starting 11 these days it feels like they are loan players - strikers don't seem to last long in our squad under Moyes do they? That's not a dig by the way just an observation - the longest serving players in the Moyes era seem to be defenders and midfielders. He has signed and discarded several strikers over the years - have they all been poor ?
Gavin Ramejkis
55   Posted 25/09/2010 at 21:07:36

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Andy and Jamie, just like to point out the season starts in August not when the team can be arsed. Jamie if the Yak had a lot less fat and trained to fitness like he is fucking paid a handsome wage to he'd have scored, he hasn't so its pointless saying what if. Andy we were a much better side last year and got beaten twice by the worst RS side I have ever seen, the darkside have a habit of not shitting out when playing us, if the current squad have already rolled over in all but one game it doesnt give me any optomism for the game against that lot.
Barry Thompson
56   Posted 25/09/2010 at 21:07:54

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All I've ever heard is that the table doesn't lie. I'm sure that I've heard Moyes say that quite a few times. We all know that we need a win but with our inability to keep them out at one end combined with an inability to put them in at the other, leaves me wondering when and where that win will come from.
Brian Waring
57   Posted 25/09/2010 at 21:05:49

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Andy, maybe it's fans like you who are the problem. You are happy just plodding along, taking whatever comes, making Moyes untouchable.

I'm fucking sick of it, we get our hopes up, only for them to be shot down again in typical Moyes fashion.

I want to be challenging for top spot, never mind fucking 4th, winning trophies etc. You'll probalby be happy with a 8 - 10th place finish, harping on about how we've got no money etc, and that we should all be grateful to Moyes, telling us he's a genius for what he's done over the yrs, well andy, that was the past, this is the future, and we're shit. The man has had over 8yrs now, and we don't look no closer to a trophy.

One question Andy, when do you personally start questioning Moyes?
Jamie Tulacz
58   Posted 25/09/2010 at 21:15:32

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Gavin- far be it for me to defend the Yak, I agree that the guy is a disgrace that he can't be bothered to get into shape after nearly a year back from injury. Unfprtunately he seems to have previous on lack of effort at former clubs too.

Don't know why we don't start most seasons off well, but I'd disagree that it's a lack of effort by the players (with a few exceptions) but we do seem to pick up after the early games. Funny how Moyes gets criticised when things go badly, but when he does well it's by doing the obvious things that anyone could see. You can't have it both ways!
Michael Brien
59   Posted 25/09/2010 at 21:13:46

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Jamie - I was at John Rigby 6th Form College in the mid 1970's when plain Father Vincent Nicholls was the Chaplain. If David Moyes is able to turn things around and lead us to a position of European Qualification I will personally contact Archbishop Nicholls and instigate a campaign to have David Moyes canonised I can't say fairer than now can I ?

Will all those who think Moyes is doing a brilliant job please accept the fact that he is not above criticism. I am critical of him - I don't hate the guy ok ?
Leigh Hardie
60   Posted 25/09/2010 at 21:03:41

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I actually thought that today's line up would have pleased most toffeewebers for the first time in a while - no Osman on the right or even on the pitch, Fellaini back in defensive mid, Coleman in right mid and let's be honest, despite the cravings for 4-4-2 from many, we're not going to get it so Cahill back in the team with Yakubu up top is the most 'qualified' in this formation. When Osman did come on to replace a tired Cahill, he was actually put onto the left! I think this was to give Pienaar a more central attacking role as he seemed to be at the heart of most of our attacks.
Thought we dominated the first half whilst no making too many clear cut chances. Second half was a little more even in tems of attacking opportunities but Everton certainly had more chances on goal. On another day, one of those loose balls or scuffed shots by the Yak would have ended up in the net.
Some positives? Good performances from Coleman on the right, Pienaar was the most dangerous player on the pitch, Fellaini strong and commanding again.
Some negatives? No real firepower with Yakubu in this state, the realisation that it wasnt 'another day' and we cold have probably played for 180 minutes and no goal would have come, Arteta a bit anonymous, poor crosses and free kicks and corners...
Barry Thompson
61   Posted 25/09/2010 at 21:37:34

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Maybe loaning Vaughan out to Palace was so that when he comes back Bill can say it's like a new signing.
Jamie Tulacz
62   Posted 25/09/2010 at 21:31:50

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Michael go for it if you want!

I'm not saying Moyes is doing a brilliant job or we wouldn't be bottom of the league, just feel some of the criticisms on here are well over the top.

He's been manager of the year 2 (or 3?) times in his reign, whilst some people wouldn't necessarily agree with that, it does seem to suggest that he's not a bad manager, and he doesn't become a bad manager in the space of 6 games.

It's all very well demanding titles and silverware, but it just isn't that easy nowadays. The top teams are the ones that have the money that allows them to buy the best players, that's just the way the game is. I hate it as much as anybody, but that's just the way football has gone.

Leigh- think that's a fair summary a few positives, a few negatives, formation looking a bit better

Andy Callen
63   Posted 25/09/2010 at 21:37:36

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Brian, of course I?m not happy at the moment, we are bottom of the league. However I don?t see how the same team as last season can go from Championship winning form to relegation candidate and know Moyes, the players and the fans will make sure it is turned around. You ask when I will start questioning Moyes - like every Blue I have done it more than once in his 8 years with us, the most recent being after the away defeat to Hull last season (I don?t understand how he was unable to motivate the players into a performance when we had the opportunity to go above the RS). If the same things happens next weekend and the performance isn?t good enough (regardless of the result) I will question him again and ask why he sticks with the same players even if they are not performing NSNO
Charles King
64   Posted 25/09/2010 at 21:43:55

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Don't be fooled by Managerial awards, longevity is the holy grail for these self serving LMA pricks.

They can't keep giving it to fergie and Wenger and football is filled with such unimaginative and incompetent fuckers that someone hanging on to their job just by avoiding relegation is meat and drink to these idiots.

Proffering the idea that football management is all about time, requiring an expert scrutineer to craft a blend of players who evolve into a top team is simplistic bollox.

The REAL ingredients of man management, inspiration and courage are rare enough globally let alone here.
They're as shifty as politicians, but get paid more.
Iain Love
65   Posted 25/09/2010 at 22:14:05

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As a one off an away draw at Fulham is fine , it's when you look at the season so far it's a bad result.
I have always thought Moyes has done a good job given what he has had to work with and we have got better each season.
But now based on his team selections and lack of tatical nouse not to mention the fact we are fucking bottom i think it's time for a change.
Kunal Desai
66   Posted 25/09/2010 at 22:49:11

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Can all those saying we are so many points behind 4th place and 6th place etc etc and it's early on in the season, please CUT IT OUT! It's not going to happen. The sooner you get used to it the better. In the next 2-3 games the gap between ourselves and the top 4/5 possibly even 6 will become wider. Last season we were 11 points behind Spurs when we played them in Nov and never caught them. Whether you like it or not the expectation levels have to be re-assessed after 6 games.
Chris Jones
67   Posted 25/09/2010 at 23:03:45

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Reading most of these comments it's clear most of you didn't see the whole game. How the fuck can you comment on a game that you didn't see?
Amit Vithlani
68   Posted 25/09/2010 at 23:02:55

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I seem to remember the brigade calling for Moyes head at round about the same stage last season, and the season before that.

Anyone daring to disagree with the current sentiment is branded an acolyte, or not having enough ambition for the club

Well what a load of fucking shite.

We are NOT going to get relegated and CAN still finish in the top 6 because there are 6 games gone, 32 to go, not the other way around.

There is a large section of the Evertonian community whose expectations for a good season was top 6, not top 4. Some of you here on Toffeeweb may not like these as "aspirations", but with the club not having enough money to offer Pienaar what he wants and to spend big in the transfer market (eg to bring Landon Donovan) this seems to have been a reasonable benchmark. We are being outspent by almost every other club and whilst this might be our best squad in a long time, it might just be because in the last 15 years we have had some truly shite players pull on the blue jersey.

Moyes DESERVES a break. He has brought plenty of good football over the last 3 seasons - we were excellent on the road to the cup final and played some excellent stuff last season (City, Chelsea, United).

Jamie Tulacz
69   Posted 25/09/2010 at 23:25:59

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Amit- exactly- sums up my opinions perfectly!

Seem to remember us having an equally bad or even worse start in the season we played in the CL (3 points off 8 or 9 games).

Still finished 11th that season, which is not ideal admittedly, but nowhere near the talk of relegation we're getting here. And we have a much better side now than we did then.
Gavin Ramejkis
70   Posted 25/09/2010 at 23:37:29

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Jamie and Amit, history is gone, today is what its all about and the rest of the footballing community in the EPL spends money just to stand still, given that little gem what do the two of you think spending next to nothing does?

We have a number of players back from serious injury and it may well be that at least one of them in Yakubu isnt going to be the same again, add to that the obvious and inescapable passage of time and that every last man in the squad is a year older, age doesn't make you any faster and as the Newcastle game brought to deadly focus, we appear to have little or no pace whatsoever in the squad or players with pace sadly so far from their optimal positions to be able to do anything about it.

In precis the "better side now" isnt playing the same sides or players they played then guys and games we played last season mean jack shit right now with Everton rooted to the bottom of the league and the only side in all divisions not to have won a game yet.
John Daley
71   Posted 26/09/2010 at 00:36:04

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Brian Waring #57,

My sentiments exactly. There seems to be apathy and an all too easy acceptance of the current situation from some Everton fans at the moment. Moyes must be the only manager in the Premier League who has previously overseen repeated periods of horrific form and abysmal results without ever coming under the slightest bit off pressure from the fans, the board, or the media. Even following the midweek cup games Roy Hodgson is slated for the RS getting knocked out and is accused of overseeing a crisis of 'his own making'. Moyes, on the other hand, emerges unscathed and recieves no criticism or blame whatsoever from the media for the shambolic start to the season and defeat at Brentford. He's far too comfortable and secure at the club for my liking with his boss Bill constantly fawning all over him.

Yes , overall, he's done a decent job in his time at the helm but that doesn't mean we owe him eternal gratitude and must constantly grant him free pass when things go drastically wrong
James Stewart
72   Posted 26/09/2010 at 02:11:28

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Didn't watch the game. That's a first for me in years. I simply could not take another defeat after the Brentford embarrassment. Things have become oh so predictable under DM. It's just depressing.
Peter Fearon
73   Posted 26/09/2010 at 02:08:04

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Chris McCullough - The belief that the Yak wants out is extrapolated from 1. his asking for a transfer earlier in the summer and the widely reported bid of 6M and later 5M, both rejected and 2. the fact that he turns up after the summer, in Moyes own language, "out of condition." and 3. his playing slow, ponderous, uninvolved and ultimately miserably incompetent football. Put that together and you have a picture of a guy who wants to limit his value to the club so he can be sold and pocket some cash. It won't be the first time players have self-consciously played themselves onto the transfer list and it won't be the last. I promise you this guy is going in January and I will be surprised if he scores another goal for Everton, regardless of the formation. It is no longer in his best interest, and if there is one thing in this world Yakubu knows about apart from food, it's self-interest.
Jay Harris
74   Posted 26/09/2010 at 04:08:44

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If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too:
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or, being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise;

If you can dream---and not make dreams your master;
If you can think---and not make thoughts your aim,
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same:.
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build'em up with worn-out tools;


This just Moyes making a point to "Black Bill" about being forced to take a "free" striker from the 3rd division instead of bring some quality in. If we'd have had the 4 million it cost for Kirkby "expert" fees then we might have got someone decent.

We'll be climbing the table soon.
Dermot Ryan
75   Posted 26/09/2010 at 06:20:12

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I'd imagine most of those who actually saw the game saw some things to be encouraged about (at least that was the case with me). If the team plays like the did today, we will not go down. It's just said that we are reduced to that conversation already.

The striker issue is acute however. And Moyes needs to have a look at what midfield players actually score goals. And Bily is one of those players. Play him in the center and take the hit that he is clueless defender who often loses the ball. Either that or start playing Beckford with the Yak.

The current formula will not get us goals.
Dermot Ryan
76   Posted 26/09/2010 at 06:28:20

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Beer google typos corrected:

I'd imagine most of those who actually watched the game saw some things to be encouraged about (at least that was the case with me). If the team plays like they did today, we will not go down. It is just sad that we are reduced to that conversation already.

The striker issue is acute however. And Moyes needs to have a look at what midfield players actually score goals. And Bily is one of those players. Play him in the center and accept that he is a clueless defender who often loses the ball. Either that or start playing Beckford with the Yak.

The current formula will not get us goals.
Dominic Bobadilla
77   Posted 26/09/2010 at 09:39:47

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I suggest Billy and Beckford up front.
Stephen Kenny
78   Posted 26/09/2010 at 11:21:28

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After today's game i'm confident that given a run of games the Yak will score regularly.
Richard Dawson
79   Posted 26/09/2010 at 10:55:34

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Moyes actually seemed quite upbeat and pleased after this one - I think he sees a clean sheet the way the rest of us see a victory, that's the achievement that counts above all else, regardless of whether we've scored or not.

He now seems so completely crippled by a terminal overcautiousness, that I now can't see his outlook ever changing.

We're searching for our first win, struggling for goals, and yet we've not had more than one striker on the pitch at ANY point this season.

Oh, and that's at the most of course, pioneer that he is of the 4-6-0 , we've already had our first glimpse of that this season.

And this is all with the best squad I've ever seen.
Brian Waring
80   Posted 26/09/2010 at 11:24:49

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Dermot, Moyes seems to be talking that way. Someone mentioned yesterday that Moyes said on the radio that we need to get to 40pts.
Isen't that what relegation tipped ( I know wer'e not tipped to go down )teams say every season, lets reach safety, and see what happens after that?

So, we've gone from a team who is supposed to be challenging top 4, to a team who needs to concentrate on getting to the magic 40pts mark.
Amit Vithlani
81   Posted 26/09/2010 at 11:56:23

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Gavin I can take the second part of your point - which is that history means very little in terms of our predicament - however I am in the camp that thinks that the Manager did a good job in the past which should entitle him to some time to sort out the current mess. 6 games into the season is not enough in my book to overshadow the excellent performances of the last 3 years. What's more, we have had dreadful starts in the past (admittedly not as bad as this) and have pulled through, so we need to keep the faith.

The first part of your post I dont understand. If every other PL team has spent more than us to stand-still, presumably we have gone backwards with our under investment, correct?

Should we fire the manager for this? Given his budget, who do you think he could have brought in to take us forward?

Nelaj Behajiha
82   Posted 26/09/2010 at 12:51:13

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To all you Moyes supporters it's not Kenwright's fault, without Kenwright your beloved messiah wouldn't still be at Everton. It isn't Kenwright's fault we're in the shit, it's Moyes fault. Moyes has continually failed to identify simple problems, that many people have identified on here.

It wasn't Kenwright that spent £8 million on an unknown Russian rather than signing a top class Dutch midfielder for the same fee. It wasn't Kenwright's fault we are in this complete mess. If Moyes is going to take responsibility for when we do well, he's also got to take the blame when we're doing badly. I completely support the Board's reluctance to give him money as he would've only brought in another right back or another defensive midfielder. Moyes could've sold less essential players to fund transfers, but he didn't.

Amit Vithlani
83   Posted 26/09/2010 at 14:42:50

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Post 84 what a load of total shite. Go and have a word with yourself in the corner will you? Do you believe a "top class Dutch midfielder" would join us for the same wage as Bily?

Moyes transfer record is one of his strengths. His coaching and tactical nous may rightly be under scrutiny given the current poor results, but no one can doubt that the bloke has unearthed more gems than lemons in his transfer policy.
Jay Harris
84   Posted 26/09/2010 at 15:40:42

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Nelaj #84
Is this the same David Moyes who bought Lescott for a few million and held out for 24 million when the board would have accepted 15 million.

Is this the same Russian, who by the way is an international so how can you call him unknown, who everyone was raving about last season saying he's going to be another Fellaini.

As Amit says you can criticise Moyes for tactics, team selection, and late substitutions but his transfer record stands against anyone.

Anyhow how do any of us know what the deal was for Billy and/ or others. Maybe one of the criteria from the board was low wages demands.

We cannot afford a Drogba,Torres or Tevez and that quality of striker makes a significant difference.
Michael Brien
85   Posted 26/09/2010 at 15:44:26

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Amit - you say that Moyes transfer record is one of his strengths ? Well I would agree with that - but only up to a point. He has over the years signed several strikers - and then sold them on a couple or so seasons after signing them. They can't all have been bad strikers can they ?

Personally I think David Moyes would be happy with an 11 made up of a goalkeeper and 10 workhorse type outfield players. He is beginning to remind me of a latter day version of Gordon Lee and I seriously worry about that. Billy is a skillful player - who Moyes appears to have very little idea how to use/get the best out of. I bet if the lad had signed for say Arsenal, he would be playing to his full potential/near his full potential now. I wonder if a player like Kevin Sheedy would have fitted in with David Moyes tactics ? I would say probably not.
Nelaj Behajiha
86   Posted 26/09/2010 at 17:32:21

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Jay, Moyes's signings are only considered amazing due to the fact he takes average players and makes them a bit better than average.

Amit, Billy has spent most of his time of the bench during his time at Everton.

Karl Masters
87   Posted 26/09/2010 at 18:23:21

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James Stewart said,

''Didn't watch the game. That's a first for me in years. I simply could not take another defeat after the Brentford embarrassment. Things have become oh so predictable under DM. It's just depressing''

So predictable, eh? What an idiot you are - you predicted a loss, but it ended up a draw.

That is so typical of the hysterical over-reaction on here. Iam not for one minute saying I am happy with the start, but this defeatist claptrap I'm reading would only be appropriate if we were taking 4 and 5 goal beatings every week.

The people asking Moyes to ' grow some balls' should maybe heed their own advice and stop panicking.
Jay Harris
88   Posted 26/09/2010 at 21:47:46

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isnt that the whole point.

Moyes has never had the luxury of Appy Arry, Benitez or even Martin Oneill and yet he still managed to compete with them and over his tenure (except for the devil's children) he has finished above them in most seasons.
Michael Brien
89   Posted 27/09/2010 at 07:23:26

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Jay - I think the issue is whether or not David Moyes can get the best out of our current squad of players. I hope that he can, however I have my doubts and these are based on the tactics that he is using.

Every match or at least in 95% of our matches he plays a lone striker - the fact that we have failed to score in 4 out of our 6 Premier league matches surely tells us that it is time to be a bit more adventurous. Fellani may be able to do a job upfront in an injury emergency - but when you have specialist strikers available - surely they should be played !!!

I think that that the system of playing a lone striker has done no favours to either Yak or Beckford. One missed nearly a year due to injury and the other is inexperienced at Premier League level. The role of lone front man is demanding enough for a player of international class - at the top of their game, let alone for a bloke coming back from a serious injury and for an inexperienced player.

In the Gordon Lee era the manager would be prepared to leave out Duncan McKenzie and play Jim Pearson!! or even at times Telfer. Both these guys were decent players but had nowhere near the same level of skill as McKenzie. I fear that Moyes is showing the same attitude and sacricing skill for workrate. If you are going to win games you have to have one or two "flair players".
Amit Vithlani
90   Posted 27/09/2010 at 12:07:27

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Michael - no one is suggesting his tactics are beyond reproach. His transfer record is, however, amongst the best. The two are seperate issues.

He may have brought in strikers and reduced them to impotence through poor tactics, but has the club lost serious amounts of cash on the buying and selling of front players?

- Beattie - bought for £6m sold for £4.5m
- McFadden - bought for £1.5m sold for £5m
- Bent - bought for £500k sold for £2.5m
- Johnson - bought for £8.5m sold for £10m.

I make it that the club has made a profit, even on selling strikers.
Michael Brien
91   Posted 27/09/2010 at 14:02:54

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A good point Amit, he has indeed made a profit as you have referred to in your list. I must say though that if you are a manager who has a reputation of " buying and discarding" strikers at such a rate it's not really going to persuade players to sign for you is it? It could go against Moyes in situations where players have a choice of clubs.

As regards the issue of his tactics, I think there is a link to some of his signings - over the last year or so I confess to having less than the usual sense of anticipation when we have been linked with attacking/creative players. I have come to expect that such players will be used "from the bench".

I hope that I am wrong, but I see a certain parallel with Gordon Lee back in the late 1970's. He brought in Dave Thomas as well as Mick Pejic and George Wood and we had a team that finished 3rd and looked capable of going on to great things. However, Lee's downfall was his preference for players who had a good workrate and he sacrificed too much creativity in favour of workhorse players like Geoff Nulty. You need to have some flair players in your team if you are going to win things.

I see David Moyes going the same way - he brings on Osman on Saturday for Cahill with about 30 minutes to go, leaving Bilyaletdinov on the bench until there's less than 5 minutes to go. Moyes has got to be more adventurous - I think failing to score in 4 out of our 6 games so far proves my point. If he doesn't change then we will be in for a season of struggle.

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