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Limp fightback not good enough

Says it all really. Thoroughly depressing. I wrote a summary for anyone interested, it's in the Match Report file.
Michael Kenrick     Posted 14/11/2010 at

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Tommy Meehan
1   Posted 14/11/2010 at 16:10:47

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Bout all there is to say really. Why we waited until the last five mins before even trying to do anything effective is beyond me
Joe McMahon
2   Posted 14/11/2010 at 16:11:55

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Due to current finanaces I haven't been to Goodsion so far this season, lets face it I ain't missing much. It's all so predicatble, the 70 min subs should have been on a lot earlier, as usual chasing a game. 2 home wins, 3 wins all season after 14 games. As many say. Moyes has the safest job in the premiership. What worries me is he never seems to learn from history and past mistakes. I'll leave the apologists to defend these tactics, this season, this manager.
Tom Brown
3   Posted 14/11/2010 at 16:15:55

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Robbed. Sagna should have been sent off at least twice. No doubt in my mind that if Webb had got it right with Sagna then we would have won.

I have been depressed by much about Everton recently but today's game was a rare bright spot. The performance deserved more and gave hope for the future.

By the way, I love Coleman's attitude!
Brian Hill
4   Posted 14/11/2010 at 16:14:00

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Arteta may as well have not been on the pitch and Heitinga played as though he wanted to be sent off. Moyes has some very serious issues to address - is he up to it?
Mike Allison
5   Posted 14/11/2010 at 16:14:51

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I must have watched a different game then (again). Arsenal were lucky to be 2-0 up in the first place, there was an offside in the build up to their first goal, and two fortunate nutmegs in Fabregas' goal.

14 attempts on goal, two or three very good saves from Fabianski, and two absolutely glorious chances missed (one by Cahill and one by Rodwell).

We matched Arsenal for most of the game (possession says 47-53 in their favour) and they were defending desperately in the last ten minutes, flinging bodies in the way and occasionally hacking the ball just anywhere as we pressed.

Yeah, it is depressing that we lost, whatever happened in the game, but football can hang on fine margins, and a little bit of different luck, and taking chances when they came and that game would have been a completely different story.

PS> Not to mention the red card Squillaci should have got but didn't.
Brian Waring
6   Posted 14/11/2010 at 16:20:23

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Tom " The performance deserved more and gave hope for the future "
Take it Tom, you only caught the last 10mins of the game then?

Also, Johnny could have been easily sent off, before he got booked, he could have easily been booked for 2 lunges virtually one after the other.
Paul Dewhurst
7   Posted 14/11/2010 at 16:19:37

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For our next game I would like to see Moyes have the balls to start a game with the team / formation we ended with today. Most of this season I think Arteta has looked like a passenger, so would drop him to the bench. Let's start a game with a genuine threat rather than shitting ourselves when we are behind. I'm a fan of Moyes but days like today get me frustrated
Brian Waring
8   Posted 14/11/2010 at 16:23:59

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Wow Mike, talk about clutching at straws.
Paul Olsen
9   Posted 14/11/2010 at 16:19:29

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I try to stay positive like you Tom, but i'm out of happy pills now.

Sure we play neatly, but noone really fears that we will score against them.

Arteta was absolute rubbish today, Baines well below his usual standards and Pienaar is the prince of inefficiency.

For me Pienaar is the symbol of this neat but ultimately useless side.Tricks to deceive, but never there to provide actual cutting edge.

And why do Everton continue until the game is lost before any attacking play with conviction actually happens? Most probably because Arsenal decided that the game was over at 75 minutes. Everton would never score twice in 15, even without the Arsenal players running.

Rant over, fucking miserably sods....
Jimmy Changa
10   Posted 14/11/2010 at 16:25:38

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How the fuck is Bily not getting a chance in the centre when Arteta has been playing gash since the start of the season?

Also, why is he even sill an option at corners and free kicks?
Tom Brown
11   Posted 14/11/2010 at 16:25:02

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No, Mr Waring. I wouldn't comment if I had only seen 10 mins. You would be better to offer your own view of the game rather than trying to insult the views of others.

Brian Waring
12   Posted 14/11/2010 at 16:30:56

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Never insulted you Tom, just asked you a question, thats why I put a ? at the end.
Alan Clarke
13   Posted 14/11/2010 at 16:23:41

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Moyes has built a team based on a work ethic. He has gained results in the past by getting his team working hard and keeping a tight defence.

This season, we're not working as hard and our defence is not tight. Other managers with limited budgets have followed Moyes' methods and just working hard now doesn't get you results. We are far far too slow in the final 3rd hence we never look like scoring. Moyes doesn't have the tactical nouse to sort this out especially considering this is apparently his strongest squad.

We'll be okay in that we won't go down but we can't have ambitions beyond mid table with Moyes in charge. I wrote a piece last season saying Moyes was his own glass ceiling. I got a lot of crticism for it but I still think that is the case. He really has taken us as far as he can.
Nelaj Behajiha
14   Posted 14/11/2010 at 16:34:49

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Moyes out. Ridiculous tactics he has no clue. All we do is play hoofball. Lack of ideas and inablity to pass or defend has cost us today.
James Stewart
15   Posted 14/11/2010 at 16:30:25

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Strange game. Pretty lame by Everton. Tactics off and bar the last 5 mintues I don't think anyone even could get a meaningful shot on target.

Some things that really irritated were the stupid short corners. Even the idiotic pundits on sky were questioning it with Arsenal's weakness in the air and a dodgy keeper.

Subs again wasted from Moyes to little to late. Why even have the two arguably form strikers on the bench. It would surely have made sense to play beckford while his confidence is at its highest.

It's annoying to keep harping on about the manager but it really is the same old mistakes from Moyes. Getting very boring.
David Hallwood
16   Posted 14/11/2010 at 16:32:09

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I thought Howard was at fault for the 1st goal, he was on the post when it got drilled past him, and to me he's become a liabilty. To the poster that said Baines wasn't as effective, that was because he was playing deeper to counter Arsenal's attacking threats
Tom Brown
17   Posted 14/11/2010 at 16:33:42

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No, Brian. Your post suggested that either
(i) I was such a cock that I would offer a view on a game having only seen 10 mins or
(ii) Having seen the game, I'm such a fool that I'm completely unable to form a valid opinion.

Both of these are insults.

Additionally, your response to Mike simply says " you are wrong" without any reasoning to back it up.

Please offer your own views on the game rather than sitting in judgement of others.
Ian McDowell
18   Posted 14/11/2010 at 16:36:31

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looking at last season our best performance was man city at home.

In that game Fellaini and Pienaar where in the middle.

Thats what we should get back too when Fellaini is back from suspension.

I have noticed a few times this season but Arteta looks so slow and lethargic.
Kunal Desai
19   Posted 14/11/2010 at 16:34:45

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Look we are a club which is totally skint, people are deluded if we are ever going to challenge fourth or beyond with the 'current' players we have and it does not look like improving in the near future. We should all sit back and look at the bigger picture which is to lower our expectations and get used to finishing 8th. We are an average team with an average manager and that's the way it is. Having high expectations and higher targets is one thing but being able to achieve these is another and we simply are not in a position on the field and off the field to hit the higher reaches. Reality check please.
Jay Wilson
20   Posted 14/11/2010 at 16:42:46

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Absoultely typical response from you guys. I thought it was a cracking game of football that neither team deserved to lose. We did but that doesn't mean we played badly. Coleman, Piennar and Cahill were were the best players on the pitch.
Andy Codling
21   Posted 14/11/2010 at 16:44:55

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So Kunal, we shoud either accept utter shite or... pack up and go home.
Paul Olsen
22   Posted 14/11/2010 at 16:47:32

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Kunal, after our first couple of games you were talking about relegation material? We're average now?

Oh, goodie.
Andy Codling
23   Posted 14/11/2010 at 16:49:27

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ill get me coat
Brian Waring
24   Posted 14/11/2010 at 16:39:13

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Okay Tom, we only turned up in the last 10 mins, and IMO the only reason we got back into it was because Arsenal took their foot off the gas.

Arteta was woeful, and should have been brought off earliar, he also played a part in the 2 goals we conceded. We hoofed it up time after time, even though the 2 lads at the back for Arsenal were winning everything in the air.
When we had the ball in midfield, the ball either went sideways or backwards, or was just twatted up.

Moyes should have changed thing up front earliar, because the game was crying out for it, and if he had done, we may have nicked a point, but as usual he leaves it too late.

IMO, the game has to be viewed over the 90+ mins, and Arsenal strolled it for 80 of those, and made us look very ordinary.
Andrew Conroy
25   Posted 14/11/2010 at 16:43:04

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Much like the Man Utd game, even if we'd snuck a draw it would have masked a huge number of deficiencies. Other than our standard cavalry charge with 10 minutes to go, we were in Arsenal's back pocket for most of the afternoon.

When Moyes threw on the Yak and Beckford I knew the game was up. Not because of what I think of them as players- I love Yak and Beckford seems to be showing signs of finally adapting- but because it was the act of a desperate manager who'd run out of ideas and clutching at straws. Moyes yet again shows his lack of tactical suss.

Heitinga, once again, shows himself to be a wild liability, and his Barcelona fantasies are as unrealistic as the £75k we're paying Arteta. Like Saha, since bagging a lucrative contract Mikel's looked uninterested and unmotivated, and his lethargy seems to be summed up by his godawful dead balls and uninspired sideways passing. Very worrying indeed. If it weren't for the spirit of Coleman, Jagielka and the tireless Baines there'd be little to give me any pride.

"Managing Everton will always be a battle", eh Dave? You should try watching Everton with a bunch of Red Bulled Arsenal fans- by far the most graceless supporters I've ever come across. Pricks.
Brian Waring
26   Posted 14/11/2010 at 16:55:27

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Also, on a positive note, thought Coleman played well, and Distin was solid.
Tom Brown
27   Posted 14/11/2010 at 16:53:02

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Before today, I knew that Arsenal were better than us. Not just because of their position in the table compared to ours, not just because of their top-10-in-Europe ranking but because I have seen them play several times this season and it seemed obvious.

We were much closer to them than I expected today. I honestly believe we would have won that game if Webb had got his decisions on Sagna correct.

I have been very worried about Everton this season but today has played a part in cheering me up. We are not that far away from Arsenal which means we are much better than I thought we were.

I'm fucked off because of our crap start to the season but we have got better, and I am starting to believe we will get better still and that we might be able to salvage something from this season.

However, worried about the return of Fellaini. The jury is still out on him for me. If he returns to the first choice starting line up after his suspension it will be, for me, at best "a risk".
Kunal Desai
28   Posted 14/11/2010 at 16:59:01

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Andy ? I'm not saying either. I'm as frustrated as the next Evertonian, yes, I'd love Everton to be up there challenging for all honours and for all the trophies, but step back and look around at our players and manager and ask yourself are we really that good enough? We have not money therefore we can't even invest in the squad, forget bringing in some world class players, we can't even afford championship players. The bottom line lies in the fact that we have no money. We might play good football in patches but it doesn't get you winning results.

David Hallwood
29   Posted 14/11/2010 at 17:07:59

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Oh FFS Andrew Conroy#25 if Moyes doesn't change the team, he's accused of being too negative. When he makes positive substitutions he's desperate

For whay it's worth, I thought it was a close game that could've gone either way.
Andy Codling
30   Posted 14/11/2010 at 17:11:40

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So whats your stance on the current Board Kunal?
Is the blame at Kenwrights door?
Andy Codling
31   Posted 14/11/2010 at 17:13:06

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David, you can set your watch by Moyes's subs: 70th minute every time and, more often than not, the game is already beyond us.
Andrew Conroy
32   Posted 14/11/2010 at 17:10:16

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Tom #24 ? I don't get your take on Fellaini. For me, on his day Fellaini is devastating, light years ahead of the incompetent Heitinga, who is a lazy troublemaker who drops his teammates in the shit.

Heitinga's recklessness forced Moyes's hand today, because if he hadn't subbed him he was a certainty to be sent off. This meant he had to drop an unfit Rodwell into a tough game, as well as limiting his tactical options for later in the game.

Mind you, tactical options are things that Moyes doesn't seem too worried about anyway.
Andrew Conroy
33   Posted 14/11/2010 at 17:14:53

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Whoops, *doesn't* seem too worried about.

David #29- I think there's quite a bit of grey area between how you seem to define positive and negative here.

Yes, we had 3 attackers on, but with no fucker to give the ball to them from midfield I'm not sure how this was an entirely positive move. Wouldn't it have been better to put one attacker on, and give the 'secret weapon' guaye a run down the wing?

Kunal Desai
34   Posted 14/11/2010 at 17:13:46

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Kenwright is the root of our problems, I believe. He is suffocating this club and holding it back, in my opinion.

He as a chairman has lied time and time again, he does not represent the club as a business person, and anyone who thinks EFC is their own hobby is totally out of their depth. We are not gonna move forward and progress any further until new investment comes into the club and it'll only mean two things:

1) Current players that are sought after at the club will move on;

2) We will fall further down the pecking order, behind the likes of Stokes, Brum, Wolves and one or two others.

Paul Carr
35   Posted 14/11/2010 at 17:01:05

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Playing 3 strikers for 15 minutes was a first. Unfortunately, we struggled to get the ball to them.

Bad luck, the usual poor finishing, and a good goalie cost us a point today. However, DM appears totally confused about his best striker options ? why drop the Yak when he appeared to be getting back to form, and why not start with Beckford after his stunning midweek goal? I hope he changes things for the winnable game at Sunderland and finally starts with Beckford and Yak.

Trevor Lynes
36   Posted 14/11/2010 at 17:07:22

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My HONEST opinion, for what it is worth is: we played with lots of spirit and endeavour and a decoction of finesse... On the other hand I cannot believe Jay made the comments that Cahill, Pienaar and Coleman were the best players on the pitch ? absolutely blue blindedness to the ability of Arsenal. Arteta had another poor game and our best players for me were Pienaar, Distin again, Baines and Coleman with Cahill trying manfully without ever really getting much change out of Arsenal's defence. Saha also showed that if fit he will be a real asset. I thought he also played quite well without support.

Arteta is playing much too deep and therefor is having no impact... he was much better playing a leader's role further upfield and making chances. Now, he is having no impact and just plays short easy passes... Pienaar is doing all the running and dribbling and although he makes mistakes he covers more ground than anyone in our side.

I reckon we played as well as we could against a very good Arsenal team... Fabianski made some great saves and their defence had to play well.

Heitinga is a liability and is to my mind the poorest player in a physical Dutch team. He had to be subbed otherwise he would have been sent off as his tackling is diabolical.

The truth is, we have a set of mediocre Premier League players who DM gets the best out of; we are no where near being top four contenders, and if we did get into Europe we would not be competitive against the best teams.

Until we get some investment, we will be a mediocre, hard-working, difficult to beat as a mid-table side and that is all!!

Having been lucky enough to see real EFC teams, I can speak from experience... I reckon DM has taken us as far as he can with the lack of finances. If we don't get some money from somewhere, this is as much as we can expect.

Tom Brown
37   Posted 14/11/2010 at 17:18:12

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Hi Andrew,

I agree that, on his day, Fellaini is devastating. More than that, he certainly had a spell when he was "having his day" quite regularly.

Fellaini has had more bad games than good games. Ignoring the first half of his time with us would probably swing the balance to more good than bad but why is that? I don't know. Maybe, he needed time to play himself in and get strong in which case will he need to do that again? Do he have to go through the dross again before we get the good stuff? Is he an up-and-down player that just happened to have a whole load of bad games back to back and, at a different time, a string of good games back-to-back? I don't know.

What I do know is that in his favoured position of DM you need someone who performs week in, week out. Up front you can have players who are occaisionally brilliant but you cannot afford that in defence, in goal or at DM.

If we are going to play him for a while to help him get his match fitness and form back, then we probably have to accept that during that time he is not going to be reliable, which is a risk.

However, I agree that Heitinga is not having a good season and I'm not sure Rodwell is much less of a risk than Fellaini.

I don't have the answer. I hope that Moyes has the answer or gets lucky.

All I know is that Fellaini's return is making me nervous.
John Ford
38   Posted 14/11/2010 at 17:24:18

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Trevor Lynes has it about right. We had our chances to win today because we played with some good movement and thought. We're not up to top four standard but the ceiling isnt Moyes, its money. Arsenal were a yard quicker and a bit more precise.

Distan was static with the first goal , because he thought Arteta would get back to cover the ball holder. It looked like time had stood still, very pedestrian. They got a lucky nutmeg twice for their second. A bit of luck and we'd have got something. Depressing result, a decent display.

Arteta is really starting to worry me.
Iain Love
39   Posted 14/11/2010 at 17:29:25

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Well said Trevor,
I'm suprised that he put Beckford & the Yak on with Saha today as up till the last 5mins we couldn't get the ball to them.
I would have put Beckford & Gueye on in place of Arteta & Saha .
Paul Gallagher
40   Posted 14/11/2010 at 17:37:59

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if your two centre midfielders have a nightmare there is no chance of winning a game of football , arteta has been poor for a while and heitinga is a liabilty throwing in stupid tackles to make him look like some kind of hard man . i would have rodwell and fellaini centre midfield when there both available to give us some presence and drive
Paul Gallagher
41   Posted 14/11/2010 at 17:43:12

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just a comment on pienaar he does everything right until his final ball and doesn't score enough goals i can;t see arsenal going in for him because they have better players on the flaks already.
Iain Love
42   Posted 14/11/2010 at 17:43:09

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Tom -taking aside the sending off [ which was silly] Felliani looked the dogs bollocks on his return.
Niall Martin
43   Posted 14/11/2010 at 17:43:41

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We looked much more threatening when Arteta went off and Cahill played deeper. Instead of the usual fancy dan sideways ball from Arteta, we got some drive foreward.

Arteta needs to be dropped untill he realizes he's not the best thing to happened Everton. Don't get me wrong, I like him but think he's playing like he thinks he's too good for us. I would play Pienaar, Rodwell and Fellaini in midfield when all available.

Guy Hastings
44   Posted 14/11/2010 at 17:39:32

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Arteta has to start justifying his top salary. He consistently gives the ball away, is weak in the tackle, makes poor decisions, compensates for his formerly underhit corners by overhitting them and his set-piece nous has completely deserted him. Pienaar is drifting into areas to cover for Arteta's ineffectual play and over the past few games has lost the Baines link which has been our primary form of attack. Only when Cahill dropped deeper today did we look like we had any drive from the middle of the park. I think the guy is a class act but it's about time Arteta offered the level of performance demanded of both his ability and salary.
Al Reddish
45   Posted 14/11/2010 at 18:02:43

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Maybe the answer is to drop the mis-firing strikers, put Cahill as the main forward with Arteta playing behind him, forcing the little Spaniard to get more involved up top. I would then play Fellaini and Rodwell in the middle. They are both more than capable offensively and as i a protector for the back four, especially Rodwell who I see as a modern day Bryan Robson.
Al Reddish
46   Posted 14/11/2010 at 18:09:04

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Oh, and never let Arteta take a freekick or corner again!!!!
Leon Perrin
47   Posted 14/11/2010 at 17:31:10

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What a ponderous outfit this Moyes team is, good teams like Arsenal can throttle back to half speed secure in the knowledge Everton are most vulnerable when a blue shirt has the ball!

I'm watching this surreal stuff with detachment now just waiting for the end of the season and Moyes to go.

As an aside can we have more people saying it was a close game and give Moyes time or be careful what you wish for or my present favourite we're not a mid table side.

Similar delusional bollocks much appreciated. I need a laugh.
Mike McLean
48   Posted 14/11/2010 at 18:15:14

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Trevor Lynes ... completely right.
Aiden Jones
49   Posted 14/11/2010 at 18:28:32

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Watching Sunderland this evening made me despair even more about Moyes. Chelsea centre-half pairing was obviously weak and credit to Bruce for playing two up front and going for it. Moyes would just play his normal negative footie.
Andy Codling
50   Posted 14/11/2010 at 18:30:50

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Moyes was also disapointed with the atmosphere in the ground... fucking amazing.
John Ford
51   Posted 14/11/2010 at 18:25:18

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Leon, the biggest delusion of all is the assumption, whoever our manager is, that we can be a regular challenge to the sky four (three?) without heavy finances to support it.
Joseph Strumm
52   Posted 14/11/2010 at 18:17:15

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That was embarrassing to watch; we were dreadful... did Arteta make a forward pass or run in the whole game? He looked well off the pace and his wasting of free kicks is criminal.

Hats off to Coleman, Cahill and Distin who were pulling their tripe out and Pienaar, though ineffective, can't be blamed for that atrocious display. As soon as you see 'Sicknote' Saha starting ahead of the Yak, you just know we're going to struggle to score.

I'm afraid we approached the game too cautiously, the subs came on too late, again, and we waited till we were two down and there was less than ten minutes to go before we went for it. There was also a very subdued atmosphere in the ground today, almost an acceptance and resignation of how shite we are....

I'm afraid it's time to get rid of the dead wood and start a rebuild: Saha, Heitinga and Bily must be first out the door; give Pienaar what he wants because, without his creativity, we will have nothing as Arteta looks finished. Dark times ahead.

Niall Martin
53   Posted 14/11/2010 at 18:45:20

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Guy, the most sense I've heard on here today, Cahill made a massive difference to the drive from midfield when Arteta went off.
Jon Cox
54   Posted 14/11/2010 at 18:23:11

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After the game I watched the Chelsea match.

Correct me if i'm wrong about a certain rule in football.

If an attacking player beats the last man and is now in, or could have a one on one with the goalie and is fouled then the offending player is shown a straight red.

The reason I say this is because not only did this happen today at goodison but it also happened at Chelsea against a Sunderland attacker.

In both games the offending players were only given yellows.

Last week Gary Neville should have walked but was allowed to stay on.

If anyone thinks that at sometime in the future that video replays will be introduced then think again.

FIFA say they will look at the matter again. No they wont. And the reason for this is that it doesn't make marketing sense to have a world cup final starring S.Korea v Austrailia.

On a lower level we cant have rules like "last defender" etc getting in the way of the Sky three marketing machine. Can we.

I find this highly sinister, and well done Sunderland.

Michael Kenrick
55   Posted 14/11/2010 at 19:22:33

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Jon, my understanding is that, if the referee or his assistants believe there is another defender who could intercept play, then the fouling defender is not buy definition the last defender, and therefore it is not a straight red. Of course, it's open to interpretation, as are so many decisions in a game.

How the Goodison faithful screamed and bayed for retribution when Pienaar was apparently fouled on the edge of the Arsenal penalty area but it looked to me that he went down far too easily, and not for the first time in the game he had "over-elaborated". A pity because, apart from this, and his wonderful goalscoring chance, I thought he had played well.
David Price
56   Posted 14/11/2010 at 19:23:01

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I'm surprised not many have mentioned the performance of Howard Webb. Yes, Heitinga was walking a tight line but what about the Arsenal players persistently fouling? Sanga... Jesus, he should have been booked earlier. Schillachi was a red card on Saha; if Clichy was considered the last man then how come Seamus got to the loose ball before him and bloody scored? Fabregas's challenge was a leg breaker on Distin and again a red card.

But hey it's Arsenal, total football and all that. Oh yeah, bottom of the Fair Play League but sod that, they are the Sky 3 boys.

Only problem I've got with us today: centre midfield. Moyes has to now say to Arteta, "right son, next two games, Fellaini is coming right back in. You show me how much you want it, or you're the one making way."

Rodwell has to start instead of Johnny. Gut feeling is to give Beckford a go, maybe it's just frustration with Saha talking. To give us stick, however for today as a team and the manager is unfair. Very unlucky today.

Jon Cox
57   Posted 14/11/2010 at 19:42:08

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It's not sour grapes but Webb was Arsenal's man today.

Just a small point, why was Pienaar in the middle? Why was he not with Baines on the left? Was it a tactic by Moyes? As it goes Pienaar played great today but him and Baines are an effective weapon down the left.

What is the matter with Arteta? I haven't seen him play this lethargic since his groin problem. Is the old injury back?


Truly frustrated!!
Ian Smitham
58   Posted 14/11/2010 at 19:44:16

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Page 21 of the LOAF

The Authority of the Referee
Each match is controlled by a referee who has full authority to enforce
the Laws of the Game in connection with the match to which he has
been appointed.
Powers and Duties
The Referee:
? enforces the Laws of the Game
? controls the match in cooperation with the assistant referees and,
where applicable, with the fourth offi cial
? ensures that any ball used meets the requirements of Law 2
? ensures that the players? equipment meets the requirements of
Law 4
? acts as timekeeper and keeps a record of the match
? stops, suspends or abandons the match, at his discretion, for any
infringements of the Laws
? stops, suspends or abandons the match because of outside
interference of any kind
? stops the match if, in his opinion, a player is seriously injured and
ensures that he is removed from the fi eld of play. An injured player
may only return to the fi eld of play after the match has restarted
? allows play to continue until the ball is out of play if a player is, in
his opinion, only slightly injured
? ensures that any player bleeding from a wound leaves the fi eld
of play. The player may only return on receiving a signal from the
referee, who must be satisfi ed that the bleeding has stopped
? allows play to continue when the team against which an offence
has been committed will benefi t from such an advantage and
penalises the original offence if the anticipated advantage does
not ensue at that time
? punishes the more serious offence when a player commits more
than one offence at the same time
? takes disciplinary action against players guilty of cautionable
and sending-off offences. He is not obliged to take this action
immediately but must do so when the ball next goes out of play

Page 121 of the LOAF

Denying a goal or a goal-scoring opportunity
There are two sending-off offences that deal with denying an opponent
an obvious opportunity to score a goal. It is not necessary for the offence
to occur inside the penalty area.
If the referee applies advantage during an obvious goal-scoring
opportunity and a goal is scored directly, despite the opponent?s
handling the ball or fouling an opponent, the player cannot be sent
off but he may still be cautioned.
Referees should consider the following circumstances when deciding
whether to send off a player for denying a goal or an obvious goalscoring
? the distance between the offence and the goal
? the likelihood of keeping or gaining control of the ball
? the direction of the play
? the location and number of defenders
? the offence which denies an opponent an obvious goal-scoring
opportunity may be an offence that incurs a direct free kick or an
indirect free kick

Hope this helps
Colin Wordsworth
59   Posted 14/11/2010 at 20:05:09

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Is it me, or is Pienaar one of our main problems? Never stays wide, always tucks inside. Slows the play and since returning to the side has only been involved in one league victory... and for an attacking midfielder, no assists. Can he and Arteta play together in the same team? His best form was when Arteta was injured last season. I personally think that Bily is more effective.
John Fatherly
60   Posted 14/11/2010 at 20:12:36

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Who said that we have a team of mediocre players that Moyes gets the best out of? What a bag of crap. Moyes recruited the whole lot of them for a lot of cash over NINE years and a lot of backing, and there is still NO PACE in the side ? and our wage bill is right up near the top if you exclude the top four.

I've not seen a queue of other clubs wanting to pay big money for our 'stars', and they only want Pienaar because he'll cost nothing.

Mike Allison
61   Posted 14/11/2010 at 20:11:46

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Brian (8) 'clutching at straws'? I don't think so mate, I watched the game and have seen the stats. Most of Arsenal's possession was a spell after their 2nd goal, the rest of the game was pretty even. Is the 14 attempts, and two clear cut chances clutching at straws? Arsenal created two good chances, missed one, but squeezed a goal in from a half chance. Clutching at straws would be to demand Fabregas be sent off for his challenge on Distin, which, actually, I've seen happen before. Wanting Squillaci sent off for a clear denial of a goalscoring opportunity is simply asking for the rules of football to be enforced. I think I've covered all the possibilities, you weren't particularly specific in your glib, unintelligent and frankly pointless one-liner.

Whoever complained we play hoofball, again, not borne out by the possession stats. We play a mixed game that sometimes goes long and sometimes, frankly, passes the ball about too much backwards and sideways instead maintaining forward momentum. Another day, a bit more luck, and a correct refereeing decision on Squillaci might have had things differently today.

And comparing us to Sunderland getting a result is pointless. We won our derby 2-0, they lost theirs 5-1, do you want to swap? You might as well compare us unfavourably to whichever team gets the best result that week. That way if we win 3-0 you can always complain that someone else won 4-0 and you'll never run out of things to moan about.
Jon Cox
62   Posted 14/11/2010 at 20:23:09

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Michael, the way I saw it is that our guy was before being brought down had a chance of a one on one with the keeper. Apart from this Webb did not allow the advantage when Seamus had the ball in front of goal.

Dont forget that Refs allow play to carry on if an advantage is gained or will bring play back to the original spot where the offence took place if no advantage is gained.

Webb did not allow this.

So for me, and I maybe on my own here, but Webb failed us twice there within the same piece of play.

Jon Cox
63   Posted 14/11/2010 at 20:30:38

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Mike (62) "Wanting Squillaci sent off for a clear denial of a goalscoring opportunity is simply asking for the rules of football to be enforced."

And so say all of me.
Brian Waring
64   Posted 14/11/2010 at 21:15:37

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Here's one for you, Mike: Johnny makes a tackle, gets warned by Webb, he then lunges in twice on the same player, both tackles in the space of seconds in the same phase of play, both could of easily been a yellow card. Webb, once again only gives him a warning, he eventually gets his yellow for another challenge. Now, if Webb books him for the lunges, Johnny is off, because he would have picked up 2 yellows. All this happened early in the game, before the incidents you mention. So we could have easily been down to 10 men early on, and Arsenal would have run us ragged.

Stoke score a perfectly good goal the other week, but we get the decision, and get the 3pts. The Yak is offside when Arteta scores in the derby, but we get the decision in our favour. It's swings and roundabouts, some you get, some you don't. The problem is we only remember the ones we don't get.
Trevor Lynes
65   Posted 14/11/2010 at 21:58:04

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Brian you are quite right....If Heitinger played for any other team at Goodison we would howl for him to be sent off..he is a F.....G liability....Song should have been booked too....But Dutch Schulz is a nutter and is not worth his place, he is the worst Dutch international I have ever seen and God only knows why we signed him.
At least Felli can play a bit but Heitinger cannot for my money.
If people would only remove their blue tinted glasses and watched properly then they might have a balanced view of the games we take part in.
Brian waring has made good unbiased points as he is a fan who 'SEES things that may be unpalatable to fanatics but are nevertheless pretty obvious.
I honestly think that DM has taken this team as far as his money constraints allow...we will have difficulty hanging on to players with value as every young footballer dreams of winning trophies if he has ambition.
I admire Pienar for playing his heart out every week even though he wants away...Im afraid that Arteta is not the player he was before his injury and a rest may do him good.
I would bench him for a couple of games and drop Bily and Heitinger to the reserves....Put a couple of youngsters on the bench to freshen up the team as they may blossom like Coleman and Rodwell if they are given a chance.
Jon Cox
66   Posted 14/11/2010 at 22:13:45

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Brian, the Yak being offside in the derby. Correct but only in terms of the old ruling.

I saw the disallowed Stoke goal too. The way matey smashed into the back of Baines reminded me of a test crash car hitting a wall at 90 mph.

As for Webb and Johnny, that would be the difference between how Webb perceived the tackles and a direct rule of football law. Like I said it happened in the Chelsea game.

Two red card incidents, fouls given, two of the top Sky clubs on the same bloody day. I dont know about anyone else but a little bit to coincidental for my liking.

Lee Kidd
67   Posted 14/11/2010 at 22:26:57

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Here's a thought - we got beaten by a better team on the day.

Not hard that is it!

We can look about for people to point the finger at but at the end of the day Arsenal came to Goodison and did enough to win. End of story.

It's not like we just got our arse handed to us by the likes of Stoke is it?
Ian Smitham
68   Posted 14/11/2010 at 22:35:16

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Jon, Please can you help me re the old and new ruling re offside?

Just also please can you then go on to explain the "Rules" of Football and the sourcebook-if there is one?

Then just have a quick look at post 58
Jon Cox
69   Posted 14/11/2010 at 23:05:19

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Ian dont be lazy. Do the research.

Or, you're not being sarcy by any chance. Ohhhh (58), like..... what? You're really super smashing marvellous at cut and paste. Wow.

Well mate, we all know the rule change re- offside.

As far as the last defender. Dont need a rule book mate. I obviously didn't see the same game as you today.

Whats with the CTL C. stuff.
John Daley
70   Posted 14/11/2010 at 22:08:44

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" worried about the return of Fellaini. The jury is still out on him for me. If he returns to the first choice starting line up after his suspension it will be, for me, at best "a risk"."

Tom, Fellaini was by far the best player on the pitch on Wednsday night. He looked a class above everybody else in a blue shirt until his moment of madness. If he was playing today there is no way Arsenal would have been able to constantly drive, unobstructed, through the middle of the pitch.

As for Arteta, you may as well shove a metal pole through his sides and rotate the fucker because he's currently showing the mobility and drive of a table footballer. Every pass is simply laid off sideways or backwards and he seems to need three or four touches before performing that simple task. Goals against Utd and the RS temporarily masked the fact he's having a minge of a season so far. Today was the first game I can remember where some sections of the crowd seemed to be losing patience with him.

Jon Cox
71   Posted 15/11/2010 at 00:13:47

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It is a worry about Arteta. Our once shinning jewel in midfield.

Hopefully the old adage "form is temporary class is permanent" will prove to be the case.
Michael Kenrick
72   Posted 15/11/2010 at 01:24:21

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I geddit.

Ctrl-C... Ctrl-V.

It's GeekSpeek for "Copy & Paste"
Stephen Kenny
73   Posted 15/11/2010 at 09:01:21

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I really fear for the standard of fotball once Pienaar leaves. This season and last he's been head and shoulder's above the rest of them in terms of dictating play, linking up with others and endeavour. I'd be suprised if there's been a player or us who covers more grass, add in his play with Baines going forwards and backwards and it adds up to a missive loss that we cannot afford to rectify.

If there was a proven Premier League footballer going on a free, who we knew would slot straight into our side, bust a gut every game, has massive potential to increase commercial revenue, and would improve our style of play, we would be screaming for him to be signed. He's not greedy and he's not being unreasonable in asking for parity with a player he's been head and shoulders above all season.
Gavin Ramejkis
74   Posted 15/11/2010 at 09:27:15

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Isn't simulation also supposed to be a yellow card? Chamakh went down like a bag of shite and Webb told him to get up, later Sagny did the same and again Webb tells them to get up. Both sprung up Lazarus like with the latter jogging down the pitch to take a throw-in. The FA are fucking crooks and their slimy twat referees their tools to help out the Sky 4/5.
Tony J Williams
75   Posted 15/11/2010 at 09:06:35

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What has Johhny getting away with being a tit got anything to do with the other decisions.

Sagna should have gone, there were four stand-out yellow card incidents with him in the second half but Webb shit out. He didn't shit out of booking the new lad Coleman, did he though?

As an inept a display of referring I have seen in a long while.

Doesn't detract from the fact that they were simply better than us though.
Brian Waring
76   Posted 15/11/2010 at 13:00:24

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Jon, I thought the rule was that if you are interfering with play you are offside? The Yak was stood right in front of Reina, therefore blocking his line of vision, so he was interfering with play, so offside.
Jon Cox
77   Posted 15/11/2010 at 18:13:41

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Brian, 100% correct sir and my mistake.

I was thinking about the Arteta goal in the Utd game.

Anyway it was Reina's fault if he couldn't take a joke. Also I wish the Yak would interfere a bit more often in the box and score some bloomin' goals.

Anyway mate thanks for putting me right !!
Mike Allison
78   Posted 15/11/2010 at 18:38:33

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Brian your example doesn't really work at all though, as if Webb had booked Heitinga he wouldn't have made the second tackle- as evidenced by the fact that he didn't do it again after he'd been booked. In fact, the one he got booked for was actually unlucky, and it was more of a cumulative yellow than for that particular tackle.

You're right about the decisions in the other games though, particularly the Stoke one, although half the goals they do score involve fouls by one of them at some point.
Roger Domal
79   Posted 15/11/2010 at 20:15:27

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I thought the game was being handed to Arteta. The Arse closed down the wings fairly well for a good portion of the game and made us play more inside than we like to do (Coleman's runs not withstanding). But Mikey was his usual invisible self agaisnt a "big" club.

How many times have we all posted on this site about Arteta in the big matches? That was a game for him to control with the wings being stuffed all day long. But, he was so deep and so far away from the ball it was almost comical. There were times in his best playing days were he would come to the ball and demand it, but yesterday he sat about as far back as possible and I think his play allowed Arsenal to open us up and score.

His cover on the first goal was abysmal, and whoever devised the short corner should now be shot. I was also amazed at the lack of quality from Saha. Can he get one shot on target? Please?

Michael Kenrick
80   Posted 15/11/2010 at 20:33:04

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Roger (#79) ? were you not watching the game? Saha had one close-range header that came off the post, he had one excellent shot on target that forced a superb save out of Fabianski, and he created the goal for Cahill. Just sayin....

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