Some predictable changes from Moyes, after last week's horror result at home to West Brom. Jagielka was declared fit so Heitinga was the one to step down as Fellaini and Rodwell were paired in midfield, with Coleman back in. But he started with Saha alone upfront, and Cahill in the hole behind him, with Anichebe, Beckford and Yakubu on the bench ? along with Osman, returning from injury.
Despite a blocked Distin hoof after the kick-off, Saha got an early chance that he powered tward teh near post but Cech got down well to it, and then Pienaar won a free-kick that Baines curled in to Cech's hands. Another somewhat ragged attack quickly developed .but Baines wellied his shot over when open on the left. Early possession for Neville was poor as he did not know what to do with the ball and Rodwell was no help.
Chelsea's first decent attack came from a stupid Saha giveaway in midfield. Fellaini was just as bad on the next move, as Everton were completely failing to put a nervy Chelsea side under pressure until Pienaar lofted a ball up for Saha. But Chelsea finally got a grip of their passing after about 8 mins, and Everton's chance for an early strike was gone.
Chelsea started to push a very negative Everton side, Rodwell losing possession poorly and surrendering the first corner as the game became solidly encamped in the Everton half. Howard lost the ball and it needed a vital hack from Jagielka. Everton did win a few deep throw-ins that took forever and went nowhere.
A Route One ball to Saha could have been taken better but he lost control of it. Malouda then retaliated with a kick and a shove on Neville after his poor tackle and it was only the excessively generous sportsmanship of Neville that prevented a deserved caution or worse for the Chelsea player. On Chelsea's fourth corner, they hit the bar and failed to score from a series of chances. Neville then got booked cheaply after running in to Drogba ? a shocking piece of refereeing.
Chelsea were really not very good but Everton were giving them far too much space and respect. A good run by Coleman showed some better spirit but the ball never got through to Saha. A better move through the middle let Rodwell take a shot from distance but it was always rising. Drogba then did the splits and collapsed in a heap, possibly tearing a groin muscle.
Saha put Ivanovic under pressure and won a throw-in that finally came to Coleman after much laboured crab-passing, his shot was more like a hard cross but Cahill could not turn it in. At the other end, Kalou went close with a looping header, and Everton were lucky when more good movement by Anelka was judged offside.
Then a really typical piece of Everton play saw them finally go behind as Neville dithered pathetically as he had no outlets and then he produced the stupidest of backpasses that Anelka pushed past Howard, who then had no option but to block Anelka's path; penalty but only a yellow because Anelka ran into Howard... so it shouldn't really have been a penalty... and perhaps Distin was back to cover... but it was just desserts for such awful play by Everton when in possession in their own half. Drogba fired home from the spot with ease.
A shockingly poor first half from both sides in truth, and of course an opportunity to go at Chelsea totally squandered by Moyes and his maddening "keep it tight" mentality.
Everton got a little bit of better possession after half-time and from a foul on Saha, a better sequence saw Rodwell pull his shot wide after a great ball in from Pienaar caused havoc. But it was all lacking real conviction. Coleman was having a difficult game down the right, with little going right for him, and Rodwell was yet to stamp any kind of authority on the game.
Come the hour, come the substitutions: Beckford on for Saha... 35 mins in so for him this week! But forced on Moyes by an injury to Saha. Beckford's first attempt was a total joke from the half-way line. At the other end, Chelsea finally started playing a bit, Drogba turning but mishittting a chance at Tim Howard.
Better play set Baines off down the left and a superb cross was met well by Rodwell but his stretching heade hit the post abd bounced along the line. Better forward play and a brilliant crossfield ball to Baines, from the cross, Coleman headed straight at Cech when the pullback was a better choice. Everton had finally woken up, and won a corner that Baines took from the right, but Jagielka's brilliant near-post flick was just high and wide.
Chelsea were on the back foot, but Ferreira came on for Bosingwa, and possession swung their way after a much better spell from Everton... sadly with still no end product. Everton defended competently enough against a generally poor Chelsea. A good move saw Pienaar feed the ball in for a chance on Cech, and Cahill's studs caught Cech just above the eye, leading to an excessive reaction by Terry and Co, and a yellow cards for Cahill, Terry and Coleman..
Ramires replaced Anelka after a 5-minute spell of treatment on the field for Cech, Pienaar swung in a soft ball that Beckford tried to clip past Cech. At the other end, Chelsea should have scored when Ferreira danced behind Pienaar and squared well for Cole who missed the ball and was then taken out by Coleman, leading to silly screams for a non-penalty. Malouda also had a shot that Howard saved.
Chelsea were applying a lot of pressure as they now felt they could get the second goal, Everton with all 11 back for cornes, unable to break when they did get the ball. But a determined attack down the left saw Baines scamper forward and cross deep for Cahill to head it back to the far post where Jermaine Beckford could not miss, powering in a great header to equalize.
Bily came on for Pienaar and Mikel came on for Sturridge. Would Everton go on to press their clear advantage now? Fellaini got into a position and took a shot that was poor. 7 added minutes gave both sides a chance to go for the win. Coleman won a good free-kick but Baines delivered it too close to Cech and Jagielka had to foul Malouda, getting Everton's fourth yellow card of the game.
Cahill won another free kick for the Vanillas as they sought to pressurize the home side with the minutes ticking away. Fellaini did brilliantly to fire across goal but no-one could make the vital final touch; Beckford again did well to turn but his shot was absolutely pathetic.
Everton attacked again, and Fellaini looked to nod the ball to Beckford but incredibly he put it the other way. Bily struggled with the ball under his feet, but he put in another great cross that was defended away. Chelsea attacked and Howard momentarily dropped the ball just before the whistle finally went, a stirring finish to what had been at times an awful game. But why oh why didn't Everton win this one???
Michael Kenrick Posted 04/12/2010 at
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1 Posted 04/12/2010 at 17:02:58
2 Posted 04/12/2010 at 17:07:24
3 Posted 04/12/2010 at 17:09:09
4 Posted 04/12/2010 at 17:08:55
Overall, a good result.
5 Posted 04/12/2010 at 17:15:24
Andy ? completely agree on Beckford. He's the one striker that's actually putting in any effort at the moment. Plenty of movement and creating chances for himself. Saha doesn't look interested and should not start again for the forseeable future. Beckford lacks a bit of composure at the moment, but hopefully that will come with time.
6 Posted 04/12/2010 at 17:13:43
The thing I noticed most was the complete inability to retain possession in the first half. It was like they were embarrassed when on the ball. Big improvement in the second as Screech and Rodwell found their feet.
I can't understand why Malouda was still on the pitch ? you raise your hand, you go off, and he clearly slapped Neville yet didn't even get a yellow.
Better play from the Toffees though. Distin solid as a rock.
7 Posted 04/12/2010 at 17:15:08
8 Posted 04/12/2010 at 17:22:48
9 Posted 04/12/2010 at 17:12:43
I'm certainly not suggesting that Becks is quite there yet, although I do think we look much better and more likely to score with him in the side. It's more that I'm absolutely baffled by what Moyes sees in Saha.
I share your frustrations, Michael ? on form and not reputation, this was a team that was there for a battering. But, after last week, I'll take this point.
10 Posted 04/12/2010 at 17:20:10
11 Posted 04/12/2010 at 17:27:05
12 Posted 04/12/2010 at 17:27:08
13 Posted 04/12/2010 at 17:29:40
14 Posted 04/12/2010 at 17:24:34
15 Posted 04/12/2010 at 17:30:20
16 Posted 04/12/2010 at 17:29:26
Great second half though. Fellaini was the difference.
17 Posted 04/12/2010 at 17:32:08
I happen to think we put in a textbook away performance that was let down completely by a moment of individual madness. Moyes can't be responsible for a how a player kicks the ball... can he?
18 Posted 04/12/2010 at 17:28:02
Coleman needs to work on his technique ? he's poor from a standing start and has a tendency to just put his head down and go, which is all very well if you're stuck between the shafts of a milkcart.
Has Fellaini got a twin? The Fella in the second half bore no comparison to the Fella in the first.
19 Posted 04/12/2010 at 17:38:25
Have you got a horse at home? A particularly high horse?
20 Posted 04/12/2010 at 17:43:20
21 Posted 04/12/2010 at 17:38:34
Second half, when we had a go, Chelsea were all over the place, and couldn't handle us. I just wish he would change his mind-set now and again, away from the safety-first attitude, because I reckon we would all agree, if he did, we would have won that game today.
22 Posted 04/12/2010 at 17:41:49
Beckford has got us two precious points this season. Not bad for a free transfer.
23 Posted 04/12/2010 at 17:44:21
24 Posted 04/12/2010 at 17:45:33
25 Posted 04/12/2010 at 17:45:25
26 Posted 04/12/2010 at 17:37:02
He's thrown both of them on more often than not in 'panic stations' scenarios. In the case of Vaughan, his wild-bull tendencies always meant him charging round like a maniac, and not approaching the game in a sufficiently measured way. This of course is part of the reason why he's always struggled with injuries.
In the case of Beckford, he's never got the time to ease into the pace and rhythm of a game, and feels a huge pressure to go for glory every time he gets the ball. The fact that his confidence doesn't seem to have totally wilted suggests to me that he's a blood strong character, and with a bit of subtle nurturing and a decent run, he'll find the composure that he needs.
I'm certain that there's a brilliant player here, right under our noses. But how long can the guy listen to Moyes slagging him off in public before it all gets too much for him? Jesus. Moyes brings a guy in from the lower leagues, gives him no real chance to establish himself, then singles him out as the cause of our recent struggles when he fluffs some chances. Jesus, what psychology!
27 Posted 04/12/2010 at 17:48:57
28 Posted 04/12/2010 at 17:46:20
29 Posted 04/12/2010 at 17:48:29
Everyone, including Beckford, would have said he should have scored the winner at Sunderland and at LEAST one call at against West Brom. I think Beckford knew Moyes was giving him the constructive criticism he maybe needed. And I'm sure he will give him praise today.
30 Posted 04/12/2010 at 17:46:01
31 Posted 04/12/2010 at 17:40:29
Howard's penalty is typical of goalkeeper's errors in these situations. Don't just bring the forward down. Get in the way and slow the forward down and hope they miss or the defense gets back. Taking the forward out is not the professional solution to this situation. Howard was lucky not to get sent off. In fact he was suckered by Anelka who knew he had played the ball too far and the defense was coming in. If Howard had been smart he would have ostentatiously dived out of the forward's way and we would all have been smiling, especially Neville.
Beckford should have been seeing far more time on the pitch. He needs some more experience. Today will be good for him. We were all crying at his misses last week but he was getting into lots of good positions and was really unlucky not to get a couple.
Did anyone else notice that after he scored, Beckford ran to the crowd and was not mobbed by the rest of the team. Same last time he scored. Got a feeling he has not been accepted in the dressing room as well as he might. Probably a simple lad with ego and poor people skills. Neville and the other senior players need to do the family thing and include him more. Or maybe he'll be our egotistical, selfish goalscoring sensation. Hope so.
32 Posted 04/12/2010 at 17:52:56
33 Posted 04/12/2010 at 17:52:21
He appears quite outstanding at creating space to receive the ball, it's uncanny.
34 Posted 04/12/2010 at 17:54:37
I'd hardly say that a public slagging is constructuve criticism. If it was, then why the fuck didn't Moyes do the same to Saha when he missed that sitter against Blackpool ? which, by the way, was a much easier chance than Beckford's against Sunderland. The reason he didn't is the same that we didn't beat Chelsea ? David Moyes is blinded by big reputations and can no longer see the plain and simple facts that are right in front of him. Today changes nothing. We drew in spite of David Moyes, not because of him.
35 Posted 04/12/2010 at 17:23:47
Beckford must get a run of games, only this will give him the composure his game lacks at the moment. Saha can book a saga holiday for all I care.
The team and manager deservedly got some stick last week and responded well in the second half today. The big test is how they approach Wigan next week!
36 Posted 04/12/2010 at 17:57:15
Do you remember his attitude when he was dithering over his £65k a week contract, which went on for months and affected everyone concerned with Everton? I just wish he never signed the bloody thing and put us all out of this one-striker, safety-first anti-football misery.
37 Posted 04/12/2010 at 18:07:28
38 Posted 04/12/2010 at 18:07:46
39 Posted 04/12/2010 at 17:50:37
Most Leeds fans will tell you that Beckford shoots on sight and is over-confident. Any criticism from Moyes is warranted given that we're in need of points ? Beckford did well when he came on and scored ? could it be that the criticism got a reaction?
40 Posted 04/12/2010 at 18:05:36
41 Posted 04/12/2010 at 18:14:31
42 Posted 04/12/2010 at 18:15:26
43 Posted 04/12/2010 at 18:14:46
Fair enough about Saha needing a kick up the backside. But that didn't mean Beckford doesn't he has talent and he needs to settle down and use it better. The ability he has to make space as someone was saying is profound, he just needs to make better decisions when he has it. If Beckford had a cooler head we could have made 3-4 good chances.
Moyes is a curious case I still can't decide where I stand on him right now. I hear your criticism but I'm curious to see if things change a bit against Wigan.
44 Posted 04/12/2010 at 18:18:20
45 Posted 04/12/2010 at 18:24:32
46 Posted 04/12/2010 at 18:18:09
47 Posted 04/12/2010 at 18:30:00
48 Posted 04/12/2010 at 18:29:43
49 Posted 04/12/2010 at 18:34:08
50 Posted 04/12/2010 at 18:27:16
I'm not saying that Beckford is the answer, but I am saying that Saha is not. I can't say I was stunned when Moyes started with him today, because if nothing else David Moyes is a creature of habit. Does he really think Saha will suddenly come good??
For reasons that many have outlined on this site, with what he's got at his disposal It would not be hard for this manager to have us steaming up the table. But he continues to make decisions that are outrageously daft, and persisting with Saha is just one of them.
51 Posted 04/12/2010 at 18:33:20
Like I said will he have a go out Neville, or our keeper who has cost us a good few points already this season? will he shite,but you can be sure he will take a swipe at Coleman, as he always does, I think it is something to do with the fans clamour for him.
52 Posted 04/12/2010 at 18:04:20
As someone else said, he fluffs shots and makes hastey decisions and because the adrenaline rush on entering the frey, he finds it hard and struggles to realise any composure.
Whats the betting if he starts against Wigan we will see a much more composed Beckford.
I also think it was about Fella and Rodwell today. This partnership should realy be cultivated. The first half of course may have been lousey but this may have been because the two lads were just getting to know each other on the pitch. Well worth a punt against Wigan.
If it goes well against Wigan then keep the team as is and make Arteta wait for his chance. With the form he has shown of late the suspension has probably worked in our favour. But under no circumstances should Arteta get his place back by default.
Just to say Bainsey was awesome today and was way way above Cashly Cole.
53 Posted 04/12/2010 at 18:39:59
On that basis, and on that basis alone ? irrespective of form, club status, league position, etc ? that was a match that Everton should have won.
When I examine why we didn't win, one thing stands out; some call it a lack of confidence... I call it ingrained negativity because it's there week-in, week-out, it is very clearly holding us back, and I find it hugely frustrating to be honest.
We do have the best squad of players in 20 years... But we also have a hopelessly negative manager (who ironically put them together!) but who simply cannot get them playing to anything like their full potential.
54 Posted 04/12/2010 at 18:37:11
Where is the criticism for Howard not commanding his area? Where is the criticism of Arteta not beating the first man from any set piece in an eternity? Where is the criticism of Heitinga generally looking not arsed (although out of his natural position)? Where is the criticism of Yakubu having one goal this season?
Where is the self-criticism that his constant dour defensive football isn't working anymore?
55 Posted 04/12/2010 at 18:46:59
56 Posted 04/12/2010 at 19:02:11
Also, as I recall, he did play Beckford from the start in a number of games at the start of the season, most notably Newcastle, and what happened?
He has said all along his plan was to introduce Beckford to the Premier League slowly and on the evidence of today he is slowly beginning to find his feet.
Let's not kid ourselves though, if he starts next week and is awful, do you not think the same people who are calling for his inclusion this week will be calling him not fit to burn next?
57 Posted 04/12/2010 at 19:10:36
58 Posted 04/12/2010 at 19:19:41
You really only need to look at one example: the passage of play (Everton in possession) that led to Neville deciding the best thing to do was to pass back to the goalie ? from the fucking half-way line! If that is not the definition of negativity, I don't know what is.
Similar not-quite-so-catastrophic decisions were occurring throughout the game and they sum up the way Moyes has set the team up to play. I can't believe anyone can watch the game and not see this horrible pattern. The point is, you play better than that ? more positively ? and you create more chances, hopefully score more goals... play with more confidence, if you like. We showed enough signs to me that the players have the ability to (in this case) beat Chelsea, but the mentality has been fatally damaged by Moyes's dour shit-headed negativity.
59 Posted 04/12/2010 at 19:22:36
All fairly straight forward stuff, even described very simplistically, but to assert given how different the side played having changed the main attacking player from one that hasn't scored for so long and get a goal from his replacement, surely you must agree the perspective of questioning why start out overtly defensive when the team had that in them?
60 Posted 04/12/2010 at 19:27:49
Personally, I'd love to see Vaughan recalled from Palace and him and Beckford thrown up front together: pace, confidence and a 'throw your bollocks on the line' approach is what we need. Would it not at least get the crowd going and behind the team generally???
If only we could come up with some obscure plan to cheer up Mr Moyes then maybe we'd all be slightly more happy.
I only have the assistance of Radio 5 Live and listening to the game today I was astounded by the change in the teams attitude second half, and let's not forget Beckford was brought on relatively early by Moyes which was shocking!
This season for me so far has been, to say the least, a bit drab, we must be the slowest team going forward? But then we smashed the red shit off the pitch....heart-attack Everton, methinks!
61 Posted 04/12/2010 at 19:38:56
62 Posted 04/12/2010 at 19:24:06
You say Moyes can't handle people, right?
Then how come in the summer Baines, Rodwell, Arteta, who I presume could have moved to other clubs, signed new contracts?
If he can't handle players then how come, with the 15 highest spend in transfers and the 9th highest wage bill, we have more points under him than anyone apart from Arsenal, Chelsea, Man U and Liverpool?
Or are you talking about nothing you know about?
63 Posted 04/12/2010 at 19:35:32
No-one can defend Phil Neville's passback. You could however see the disaster developing: he looked at two passing options which were cut off; he could have lumped it down the line behind the fullback as he was closed down... Instead, he made a complete balls-up of a passback, which would have at least had the merit of keeping possession and allowing us to build again.
Going backwards isn't always negative if the plan is to hold the ball and do something with it. Personally, I would have preferred he played the ball into space behind Ashley Cole and may be forced a throw in, but I really don't think ingrained negativity had anything to do with the option he chose.
Talking about "ingrained negativity" seems to me like a bunch of the Matchday forum correspondents may want to consider the AWAY section in the Lower Bullens for their next visit to Goodison. They could have a go at Moyes, Saha, whomever to their hearts content.
64 Posted 04/12/2010 at 19:44:03
Might just be what we need. No-one else seems to have that high an opinion of their ability to hit the net... and sometimes you just have to believe that you can score and the odd goal might come.
Almost reminds me of Jo. Got rave reviews from the media but was, let's face it, not much of a footballer. But he was a centre forward who didn't mind having a smack at goal and did well for us for a time.
You saw the difference with Beckford today. At one point Cahill got the ball tight on the left and for once, we had a centre forward making a run and we won a corner from the ball into him. A centre-forward making a run ? I've almost fogotten what that looks like in the Saha era.
65 Posted 04/12/2010 at 19:53:54
66 Posted 04/12/2010 at 19:57:08
I thought team selection was pretty good today although I would have put Beckford on to start and left Saha back home to do more trainng.
I thought the central MF pairing of Rodwell and Fellaini was excellent overall and that is something I have been banging on about for ages.
If Arteta wants to get back into this team he will have to show some form and play on the wing IMO.I would have taken Coleman off second half and brought Anichebe on for the last 30 minutes to keep Terry occupied.
On our approach I thought we took the game to them in the first 10 minutes and then Chelseas came to life a bit and pinned us back. Unlike Michael, I did not see it as negativity ? more a case of nerves.
But for another stupid mistake we would have gone in level at half-time.
Moyes obviously lifted the players during the break and we came out looking for it in the second half and once Beckford came on were very unlucky not to have taken all 3 points which I am sure we would have if Rodwell's header had gone in.
I hope the starting 11 with the exception of Beckford for Saha is what we start with against Wigan and I hope the same spirit and confidence is shown.
67 Posted 04/12/2010 at 20:21:47
68 Posted 04/12/2010 at 20:04:08
Beckford at he moment is like a kid with a new "laser" gun at Crimbo! He will have a pop at anything, but hey, he still looks more likely to hit he target than King Louis, whose crown is starting to slip!
We need enterprise against he pie eaters next week, with Beckford in the starting line-up, please, Davey.
69 Posted 04/12/2010 at 20:31:29
70 Posted 04/12/2010 at 20:42:53
You are happy how he pissed about for months over his £3.5 million a year contract are you? You are happy for a manager to be in year 9, and we are in the bottom half of the table, are you happy with no silverware in this 9 year reign? Are you happy to lose 2 home games already this season to promoted teams. You are happy with Brentford, Shrewsbury, Oldham etc. If you're happy with all that then you are not only easily pleased but apathetic.
Moyes is a miserable shit... end of. Only my opinion, but after following the blues since 1977, I've never felt so cheated by an Everton manager.
71 Posted 04/12/2010 at 20:47:01
The reason why we are where we are is because Yak & Saha are horribly out of form, and if there's any money going spare next month, a proven striker plus Donovan is a must.
72 Posted 04/12/2010 at 21:15:44
I'm not happy with the things you listed or some of the other things Moyes does. However, I'm fairly happy that, despite been the 15th highest spending club since he took over, he has consistently out performed the other managers in the league apart from the so called "big 4".
Anyway, this is going some what off your original point that Moyes can't handle players yet the majority of the current players have been with the manager for a long time.
You have never felt so cheated by an Everton manager? I take it you were asleep under Mike Walker, Colin Harvey, Gordon Lee and Walter Smith then?
For me, he deserves his contract based on the above stats, for bringing together a more valuable squad than before he came and for giving us European football for many seasons.
73 Posted 04/12/2010 at 21:30:57
74 Posted 04/12/2010 at 21:34:31
75 Posted 04/12/2010 at 21:54:58
Though I don't share Michael's loathing of Mr Moyes, I think he has a valuable point. The main problem of this team is they do not look to be positive when attacking. Of course when being battered, a team is going to defend but that wasn't the problem. Why we didn't win was because in the opponent's box most of our players looked to keep possession than score.
The perfect example is when the ball was hit in the air to Fellaini in the end and everyone including the commentators thought he would nod it down for Beckford but instead he took it down with his back to goal. Why? This may be strictly down to management. The players are drilled to keep the ball and defend and not instructed to take calculated risks. If this team is ever going to compete we need to try score.
8 draws too many if you ask me.
76 Posted 04/12/2010 at 21:45:34
Then you come on here and there is more or less 70 odd posts of negativity and instead of highlighting the good things the players did all people seem to want to do is mention the one or two negative aspects.
77 Posted 04/12/2010 at 23:17:15
Today was Moyes's 400th game in charge. I wish it was his last.
78 Posted 04/12/2010 at 23:17:58
79 Posted 04/12/2010 at 23:59:20
As always, your trainset, from wherever you are, but just so as I understand the ground rules can you let me know your thoughts about contributions 13 and 36 on this thread and also can you give us the confidence that the retaining of those contributions has nothing to do with the sympathy towards your own views.
For the contributors benefit I thought I would add that only a few weeks ago we were having a go at the team for trying to walk or pass the ball in. Finally, I wondered if anyone has stats on how many Managers (except the Sky 4's) have won anything since, well, whenever you want. I know, I know Harry at Portsmouth, but try to ignore that as it has parrallels with Leeds and they are both in a mess that we have avoided, but Blue Bill's management of the Business is a different subject.
Cheers ? but do have a look at 13 and 36 above.
80 Posted 05/12/2010 at 00:44:11
From Moyes's first full season until the end of last season there have been 24 domestic honours that he could have won. Out of those 24 honours, 21 of them have been won by either Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal or Chelsea. The 4 clubs who have been able to spend considerable sums of money on improving their squads whilst Moyes has had to work miracles with a limited budget.
Of the other 3 trophies that could have been won, 2 of the 3 winners are now playing Championship football.
81 Posted 05/12/2010 at 00:37:26
#13: Comment on the game, the way it's played and the mind-numbing negativity of the manager. If you think that's abusive to Everton fans or objectionable in any way, please explain how?
#36: Again, a comment about the manager and the dreadful anti-football he has us play. I don't go with calling him a wanker per se but quite obviously some fans do think he is that bad...
The comment that was removed was directly abusive. As it says in our Conditions of Use, comments about the game, the manager, the players, the club, etc are all fair game (unless they cross a pretty obvious line). Abuse of fellow Evertonians via this website is not acceptable.
I would question you more for going down this path. Do you want these comments removed because YOU disagree with them?
Let's get this straight: it's not the viewpoint that matters to me in this regard: pro-Moyes, anti-Moyes... if you open your eyes just a little, you might just figure out that we get posts that are critical or constructive or whatever from both factions and all in-between. What we don't accept is abuse, be that from pro-Moyes or anti-Moyes, or anything in-between...
82 Posted 05/12/2010 at 00:47:44
83 Posted 05/12/2010 at 01:06:22
84 Posted 05/12/2010 at 00:52:02
You are probably right about that particular situation with the penalty today. It's just a bugbare of mine that keepers stupidly bring down forwards and risk getting sent off and give away penalties when they could be a bit smarter.
You are completely right about the obstruction rule which has unfortunately been forgotten by the refs. I am constantly frustrated when players obviously obstruct others and are not called up for an indirect.
If the old obstruction rule was followed today I think it would add to the excitement and favour the attacker.
85 Posted 05/12/2010 at 01:16:16
Personally, i say give Pienaar what he wants. Its below that of both Billy and JH who for what ever reason have not worked out. Sell both and ofset one loss against a gain on JH. I would also sell Jags if the Arse make any sort of inflated offer (£10M+) For me also i would sell the Spaniard but only for alot-ow much -dont know. Clear out a few more, Victor, James, Louis and we will have a few quids to spend. Yak? Don't know.
That is Mr Moyes dilemna, we can make statements like mine above but his job rests on it.
Lastly, of those I would bin, how many started today?
Cap PIP XXXX Distin Baines
XXXX Timmy Pienaar
Someone better qualified than me can sort the xxxx
86 Posted 05/12/2010 at 03:12:34
Good result... I'll eat a hat over that, but they were head and shoulders over us.
87 Posted 05/12/2010 at 09:05:19
88 Posted 05/12/2010 at 09:54:05
89 Posted 05/12/2010 at 10:43:29
90 Posted 05/12/2010 at 12:15:55
91 Posted 05/12/2010 at 14:09:49
92 Posted 05/12/2010 at 14:21:59
93 Posted 05/12/2010 at 14:20:39
94 Posted 05/12/2010 at 14:31:48
Brian Lawler responded by saying Spurs had not won away in 69 years to any of those 4. So what?! Harry Redknapp broke this record in two seasons.
9 seasons and counting for Moyes, he's still nowhere near to getting us that victory.
95 Posted 05/12/2010 at 15:23:04
96 Posted 05/12/2010 at 15:24:51
1. Saha should never start again ? he offers nothing ? he makes no runs, he does not hold the ball up and he does not score. At the moment, we look a more threatening team with Beckford on the pitch. He is not the best and his decision-making is dreadfull but he creates chances which the other strikers do not at the moment.
2. Most importantly, I thought Fellaini and Rodwell looked a real good partnership in central midfield, getting better and better as the game went on. We at last had movement and purpose from the middle of the pitch as opposed to Heitinga running round the centre circle with his World Cup LOSERS medal on and Mikel just running across the pitch. We finally had two centre-mids that have the youthful energy to both support the attack and defence without compromise to the team.
Please Moyes, give these two a sustained run in centre-mid. When Arteta returns, put him on the right side of midfield ? his form does not warrant him walking back into the team in his favoured position and playing him there would give us a threat down the right-hand side that we haven't had since... er, Arteta was on the right (save a dozen games when we had Donovan last year).
Come on, Moyes, please grow some before it's too late....
97 Posted 05/12/2010 at 15:30:52
Joe Royle Managed to beat both Arsenal at Highbury and Liverpool at Anfield in his first full season. Moyes will never be brave enough to have a go.
98 Posted 05/12/2010 at 15:35:32
Our Top 4 record: Last season, we drew at Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea. At home, we beat Man Utd and Chelsea. No-one can deny yesterday as a great result. Only the anti-Moyes brigade can complain about yesterday.
99 Posted 05/12/2010 at 15:54:51
This idea of a draw being a good result and at least we didn't lose is dinosaur thinking. A draw means a loss of 2 points. It may have been fine in the Good Old Days, but now it's about WINNING and you need a positive winning mentality to increase your chances of winning. It's at that point where Moyes clearly comes up short.
100 Posted 05/12/2010 at 16:29:42
And where did we draw against Liverpool last season??? I could say this suggests how much you know of one season but I won't resort to pettiness against fellow Evertonians.
101 Posted 05/12/2010 at 16:44:40
Graham Sharpe, who knows a thing or two about centre-forward play was (surprisingly for the usual non-committal local media gang) scathing about Saha's contribution (or lack of) not only to this incident but to his time on the pitch. Sharpe was pointing out the need for centre-forwards to work their socks off, making runs appropriately to enable midfield players and defenders to see a pass where none previously existed.
He was really scathing about Saha which as I said was surprising for any media pundit. I have long felt that this guy has gotten away with murder for far too long. Personal/character defects have masqueraded as "unlucky with injuries" labels covering a multitude of professional sins. It IS indeed a pity because he has been blessed with abilities as a footballer but sadly not the character to apply them (certainly not at this stage of a declining career).
It IS time for Mr Moyes to be brave and give Beckford a consistent run in the team to see if he can develop the composure, and decision-making abilities; the alertness and the link-up play with others; the speed of thought and confidence to lead the line with determination and controlled aggression that will potentially bring something to the focal point of Everton's attack.
The least said about Saha from hereon in the better but if Mr Moyes continues with him (when he "recovers" from yet another "injury") then for me it will be a definite case of the least said about the manager the better!!
102 Posted 05/12/2010 at 17:07:50
Kunal ? if you're so unhappy with the current regime, stop going the game.
103 Posted 05/12/2010 at 17:53:02
It looks at offensive production this season. To my eyes the season to date has been one where forward production has been poor; chances missed in front of goal etc. Our main playmaker has been injured, and backups (Rodwell, Fellaini) injured or suspended. We are short on pace but are not a long ball team tending to try and walk the ball in or finding Tim Cahill's head!
That said, apparently we have had the fifth number of shots in the League, but are among the worst in our ratio of goals to shots. At home we are amongst the worst for shooting on target and when we do actually hit the target amongst the worst for scoring. The away stats are on the link if you want to look at them.
My only point in bringing up these stats is to me the high number of shots (up there with Man U and Arsenal), low percentage of shots on target and low percentage of goals, demonstrates what we see... strikers out of form. Which maybe over a season will even out.
It's less to do with a negative mindset. Others may conclude Moyes isn't working them on finishing, whatever... I just think over the season things even out and our fortunes will change. Looking inside the Managers is just neither possible or productive. I just do not see this Everton team as negative... to my mind these stats bear this out.
104 Posted 05/12/2010 at 18:34:34
But other people telling me we are playing great positive football and earning an excellent point at the home of the Champions does nothing to deny the knowledge I have from watching every minute of this game that we should have won this match ? and left with THREE points ? not just one.
Negativity embraces so much: it's down to key decisions, passing backwards or sideways instead of forward, players not running into space when we have possession, picking the safe play rather than the adventurous play, having more of a coherent gameplan for what each of the players should be doing when we have possession and should be going forward... training strikers to back track, defend, keep shape, rather than training them to shoot!!! Having everyone back for corners... the list is endless, and horrible.
105 Posted 05/12/2010 at 18:49:48
106 Posted 05/12/2010 at 18:43:40
You can't understand me providing a critque of the match minutes after the result... well, I was mainly pointing out that we should have won, and suggesting reasons why we didn't... Oh look, here's what Moyes said, just minutes after the game: "I was disappointed we didn't come away with more." Sounds to me like he thought we shoulda won too.
107 Posted 05/12/2010 at 19:03:58
But then I can't see how Peter Sutcliffe ("The Yorkshire Ripper") gets fan mail... but he does.
108 Posted 05/12/2010 at 20:15:52
cf. (from the US Soccer site) ?Obstruction? became ?impeding the progress of an opponent? in 1997; impeding the progress of an opponent is defined in the Laws of the Game: ?Impeding the progress of an opponent means the path of the opponent to obstruct, block, slow down or force a change of direction by an opponent when the ball is not within playing distance of either player.? It is punished by an indirect free kick for the opposing team.
Clearly the ball was NOT in playing distance (3 feet is the norm for "playing distance" and it was at least 6 feet away) when contact was made but further I would argue that the attacker in this particular case initiated the contact on Howard, not the other way around. I have watched it 5 or 6 times and at no time after the attacker kicks the ball away does Howard try and move into the attacker's path to impede him / his progress. The attacker just runs into Howard (with his arm no less) and I actually expected a foul to be given the other way.
Surely no-one would say that Howard doesn't have a right to run into the player's path to make him change direction ... keepers do that every week?
I think Everton were unlucky in a sense but the other harsh reality is if it had been 0-0 still, I doubt Moyes would have made the subs he did to try and win the game. Chelsea were there for the taking and with a bit more guts (starting Beckford instead of Saha perhaps?), nouse (Neville, plus for example Beckford's inability to pass to a player in a much better position) and luck (Howard, Rodwell on the post) we could have won.
Baines was brilliant and the aptly named Coleman kept Cole quiet for the most part, including a couple of "strong" challenges in the box.
I liked Rodwell and Fellaini together second half and wonder how we can combine Arteta with them (in a more forward position behind Cahill or Beckford perhaps?).
109 Posted 05/12/2010 at 20:30:59
You are seriously turning in to Dave Wilson mate twisting everything to suit your agenda.
110 Posted 05/12/2010 at 21:08:41
Amost a case of good cop, bad cop. Or just bias.
111 Posted 05/12/2010 at 21:14:11
Having said all that, I would still drop him and bring Mucha in.
112 Posted 05/12/2010 at 21:50:40
113 Posted 05/12/2010 at 22:04:23
You say: Now you described that as a definition of negativity, therefore do you think that Moyes pulls Saha to one side and tells him to stand around like a big lanky gobshite looking for a lampost to lean on?
The reason why we are where we are is because Yak & Saha are horribly out of form.
And Moyes started him ahead of Beckford ? pretty negative approach from the outset wouldn't you say? It doesn't matter if Moyes told him to stand around or not ? he started him! I'm not picking a fight, I just really don't understand your logic and it left me perplexed.
Moyes doesn't have to tell him a thing ? he needs to start the most effective players in their most effective positions. If he isn't doing that, can that not be construed as a form of negativity?
114 Posted 05/12/2010 at 23:55:00
Brian (#108) I'm not playing that game. You want to shame me for critiquing the manger when we failed to win; you are perfectly satisfied with the draw ? after all, it was at the home of the Champions and little wee homely Everton were not expected to get zilch.
Well fuck that attitude. It disgusts me. We kick off in a game ? any game, against anyone, and it's 0-0, all to play for. I wholly reject this insidious acceptance of the form book as a valid baseline for assessing a team's performance in place of due consideration of the match itself. At least I provide my assessments of the game rather than spending my time online sniping at and lying about other Evertonians because they have a different viewpoint.
115 Posted 06/12/2010 at 01:09:49
This isn't me shrinking at the sight of a decent team. It's me appreciating the efforts of a team who went to Stamford Bridge and genuinely could have won the game.
I wouldn't expect Moyes to go hell for leather away to Chelsea ? I think that's how you get absolutely smacked. What we did was start brightly, work hard, and get forward as much as we could. Both halves, with the second half clearly the better of the two.
Michael, sometimes it seems like you think that the team that plays it's heart out will always win; not true, they might come up against a good side.
On Saturday, we were up against a good side and had a real crack at them with about the right balance of defensive organisation, possession, and attacking play (though it was all still dominated by our left flank).
We COULD have won. That's a good sign isn't it?
116 Posted 06/12/2010 at 04:47:43
"I wouldn't expect Moyes to go hell for leather away to Chelsea ? I think that's how you get absolutely smacked."
Sunderland doesn't think so....
Your lack of ambition is worrying.
Three games: DDD = 3 points..... LLW = 3 points. Safety first v. go for it - only have to get it right 33% of the time and you're still dead level with the safety first approach.
And with the talent we have, yesterday's first half, safety-first approach is exactly why we languish in the table.
Aim high friend, aim high.
117 Posted 06/12/2010 at 09:45:06
2nd half: Midfield duo find their feet and start to gel, immobile striker off, bit more to think about for them at the back and we come into our own. Would the 'negative Moyes' brigade be happy if we started 4-3-3 home and away and got a sound thrashing every game?
Check the opta stats, we are a top 5 attacking team we just ain't scoring the goals, we need Rodwell's header to hit Cech's arse and roll in. A slice of luck can turn a season.
Personally, I think if we dispensed with Moyes anytime soon, we will be a Championship side and then I suppose that will be Moyes's fault too. I don't apologise for Moyes but I know when certain individuals could do better.
118 Posted 06/12/2010 at 11:27:22
119 Posted 06/12/2010 at 13:11:09
120 Posted 06/12/2010 at 13:22:44
We are 2 points from the bottom 3 and we should be beating the Champions... seriously? Their form is poor, ours is just as bad, if not worse.
We COULD have won, if our free striker had a bit of nouse and if the referee could see Anelka's cheating for what is was but if my Auntie had bollocks she would be my Uncle...
121 Posted 06/12/2010 at 15:07:20
If any of Howard's ahem 'handling errors' had been converted, we could have got another ass whuppin.
Liability? He's fast becomming one.
122 Posted 06/12/2010 at 16:24:26
"Yea, I thought we shoulda won the game, It was one of those games where in the first half we had to rid a little bit of a storm. We did that. It was my mistake for the goal, I hold my hands up, it was a disastrous passback.
"But my teammates dug me out of it second-half, we finished really strong, we were fit, we showed all the things we didn't show last week, that was sprit and determination. That's what the manager asked of us and that's what he got.
"He sent us out to go for it, he didn't want us sit off, he didn't us to drop off, he wanted us to really get on the front foot get in their faces and go for it. I think in the league at the moment draws are no good, we need to start winning games. We showed the appetite today to do that. We just fell short at the end.
"We can take a little of the plaudits, but only a little because it's only a point. We've got Wigan next and we've fallen down against the teams in and around us.
"We've done well against the big teams, but next week's game is our biggest test of the season. We've failed these tests so far this season and we can't fail again.
"We need to show the same spirit and determination that we did today."
123 Posted 06/12/2010 at 16:05:16
But did you see the first half? Seriously? Chelsea brought the ball up the pitch out of their defensive end at leisure after the first 5 minutes. We clearly were putting 10 men back behind the ball. When we attacked ? after going down, I might add (what a shocker) ? we took the game to them, had them on the ropes, and frankly could have won.
The utter frustration is that we didn't do that for 90 minutes! The first 45 was just horrible, and anyone watching could not honestly say our team wasn't told to think defensive! Watch it again if you can ? we completely sat back and hoofed it quite often.
The reason the game was "there for the taking" is because IF we approach the damn game with the same verve and aggression we did when we went down in the second half, we WIN! Hence, the game was there for the taking ? period!
That is, as I've spewed here the last 2 days just to feel better frankly, the problem ? and it is most definitely down to Moyes!
Yes, Tony, we got a point at the Bridge. Yes, no question that's a good result. No one's saying going to Chelsea and getting a point isn't good ? you'd be a freaking moron to argue the opposite. BUT when you frankly SHOULD have taken all 3 but didn't because you're scared of your own shadow in the first half, and have some massive inferiority complex because you're playing the defending Champions ? hell man, that's just sad! Who gives two fiddler's fucks if Chelsea's been crowned Team of the Universe? They've not been playing well, and we gifted them a point ? yes, I said that ? because we set up to defend against a "superior" team on the road.
It would appear to me frankly that when we play our most talented men in their proper positions WE might actually be the more talented side.
But how would we know? We don't because we never, ever go for it against the big clubs for 90 minutes.
I feel better.....
124 Posted 06/12/2010 at 16:35:54
It's not about going for it, it's about keeping your shape and playing the football we know they can for 90 minutes, instead of booting the ball up to the Gods when it gets a little rough.
If we went "for it" from the first whistle, we would be goosed by the 60th and, if you are not 3/4-0 up by then, you are screwed.
It's all well and good saying we should be positive but if the team we are playing are that good, which Chelski are, they will murder you on the break, which they nearly did.
It was a decent point but we could have won just as easily as we could have lost if Terry's shot went in or Coleman's tackle ended up with an other penalty. Ifs and buts etc
Michael, what would you expect your captain to say? Christ we were lucky there etc they should have battered us with the form we have had of late? People on here go all frothy at the mouth the second he speaks usually, now it is proof of what exactly?
125 Posted 06/12/2010 at 16:52:56
I'm sure somebody has even started a thread named just that.
Our defending lately can best be described as shite, and however bad Chelsea played they had Drogba and Anelka on the pitch. 2 players who don't even need a half chance.
It's like there is only us on the pitch to some people? If we attack, attack, attack and it bounces off Saha (again), Coleman runs up a blind alley (again), or Pienaar loses possession cheaply (again), we have two of the best finishers in the world running at Jags and Distin... cricket score anybody?
We ain't playing well enough to go gung-ho!!! That's my slant
126 Posted 06/12/2010 at 21:38:10
I blame Moyes for lots of things but, for me, he only got one selection wrong on Saturday and that was Saha ? the main attacker. How better to set that team up to go for a win? Its not as simple as having an extra forward on the pitch. The shape, with Baines contributing from full-back caused Chelsea problems to the point that it was THEM that had to make changes in an attempt to nullify us. Of course Chelsea had good spells in the first half but out threat was still there and, watching the game, it was evident all the way through.
The fact is that in a game there are times when you have momentum and times when you don't. Doesn't the fact that we went to Chelsea and had a lot of the game show that Moyes might actually have got this one right?
On the Saha issue. Something is clearly amiss with the Yak and I don't think Moyes would be the only one who has reservations about using Beckford from the start but sooner or later he has to take that punt... not least because he's soon going to be faced with losing Cahill and we need a Plan B.
127 Posted 07/12/2010 at 00:40:47
Namely: "We shoulda won" ? his words and mine.
Namely: a draw and a point instead of three is not good enough, we need to be winning games like this.
I can understand you not wanting to concede on this ? that's pretty normal for you ? and yes, there is a certain irony in quoting Capn Pip when we have so often cringed at his words...
But on this occasion, the man speaks candidly and clearly speaks the manifest truth. Just pointing it out, that's all.
128 Posted 07/12/2010 at 09:01:44
We should have won? Should have said, "we had a small chance to win but blew it" would have been more accurate.
129 Posted 07/12/2010 at 16:01:05
All I can say is I voiced an opinion on the game and got slammed by the perennial negative souls on here who, like you, don't think this Everton team are capable of all that much really. Under Moyes, you may be right... but I said we should have won this game; Moyes said he was disappointed we didn't get more from the game... and then Pip pops up with exactly the same thought: we shoulda won.
130 Posted 07/12/2010 at 16:49:08
It's all about the spin.
131 Posted 07/12/2010 at 17:43:35
It's not sad. It's hilarious.
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