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EDITORS BLOG

Same Old, Same Old

It was pretty much the same old story of Everton's poor season so far....

Everton returned to Goodison Park hopefully brimming with confidence and a burning intent to build on a promising second-half performance at Chelsea last Saturday. Mikel Arteta served the second of his three-match suspension while there were fitness doubts over Pienaar, Heitinga and the Saha. This should have meant Moyes would be forced to allow the Fellaini-Rodwell partnership to continue, with Yakubu or Beckford (but surely not both!) starting up front?

But no... Saha was declared fit, and astoundingly given a starting place. Pienaar was also declared fit so it was the same team that played so poorly in the first half at Chelsea. Cahill looked to have a great chance in the first minute but could not put his foot through it from a position well outside the 6-yard area. Cahill then won a free-kick that was well delivered by Baines toward Fellaini and the Blues eventually got their first corner that was also delivered well and ended with Coleman firing over from distance.

A great cross from Pienaar after good work from Baines was just fractionally ahead of Saha's strecthing header. Neville's first involvemnt was a poor challenge that gave away a dangerous free-kick and a booking in the 6th minute! N'Zogbia could not beat the Everton wall. Wigan won another corner that ended with Rodallega getting his head on a cross but putting it wide. Baines again swung in a brilliant free-kick that was perfectly placed onto Fellaini's head but he got it completely wrong and missed a clear chance to open the scoring.

Baines was controlling the Everton play, and Saha should have done better on a deep cross to the far post. Wigan looked to press and N'Zogbia got in a very dangerous ball from the byeline right across the Everton 6-yard box that was not converted. Everton were struggling by 20 mins to impose any kind of shape on the game, Cahill's niggles were not escaping the attention of referee Michael Oliver.

Cleverly was causing Everton problems down the right and Pienaar's ankle-tap saw him earn the second yellow card from an overly fussy referee. Some shocking touches from the Blues players Fellaini, Coleman, and Saha brought anxious jeers from the Everton crowd who were getting noticabley frustrated with what they were watching. When Everton did get some worthwhile possession, they overplayed it. A chance did come though, a header from Rodwell that was very unfortunately intercepted on it's way into the net.

Some better pressure from Everton still lacked the final ball as intricate plays seemed destined to fail through close attantion from their Wigan counterparts. Pienaar and Baines though suffered a rare lack of understanding at crucial moments. Poor examples of Everton caught in possession with no idea what to do with the ball when in good advanced positions were particularly frustrating. Fellaini got a great ball across the face of goal but just a few feet too far ahead of the lunging Cahill. Thomas and Pienaar clashed briefly after going for the same ball.

More stuttering Everton pressure around the Wigan area just before half-time should have lead to at least one shot on goal but didn't, summing up the frustration of another very unappealing half of football at Goodison Park.

Saha was allowed to continue after the break, Everton winning an early corner that came to nothing. Then a brilliant run from Coleman, but the ball in to Cahill was poor and Cahill was offside. Pienaar then had a good poke on a nice pass from Saha but it was saved by Al Habsi. Everton won more corners then Jagielka was in on a Baines ball but the keeper saved it. Pienaar and Cahill repeated the move with the same result. More intricate play saw Saha flick the ball back into Cahill's path but the Aussie couldn't get a clean shot and drove it wide.

10 minutes of sustained Everton pressure came to nothing and it was Wigan's turn to threaten. Then Saha got his half-chnace with a great throughball that was perhaps too direct from Pienaar and when he finally did shoot, it was straight at the keeper. Then a crucial moment in the game: a cross from Saha that Cahill headed brilliantly but only onto the post... Coleman scampering through but screwed up his shot/cross, quickly followed by a chance for Pienaar that he drove over.. chance after chance after chance... but still no score. The hour mark and Moyes, right on cue, in his incredible predictability, subbed Saha for Beckford.

Coleman again put in a great run but the cross was too high and away from everyone as Wigan were rocking on their heels. But the substitution of anything spoilt Everton's greatly improved rhythym and the game looked to sink back into its scrappy first-half pattern. The troublesome Thomas was removed by Martinez in favour of McArthur, to save a second yellow.

Beckford then typified the Everton problem, winning a Jagielka hoof in a good forward position but having only six Wigan players and no Everton players anywhere near him.

Pienaar walked off, with Victor Anichebe coming on to a chorus of boos, having refused a lucrative new Everrton contract, according to the Daily Mail. Another wonderful set-up, Baines clipping it in to Fellaini whose header was easily saved by Al Habsi. A good forward move followed and Beckford got behind the Wigan defence but was adjudged to have made his run a fraction too soon (an incredibly marginal decision that should have gone in his favour) and his nice finish was called back for offside.

Jagielka was called upon to prevent an almost certain goal from Diame as spaces opened up in teh Everrton defence. Rodiellga got a shot off that Howard saved comfortably as the minutes relentlessly ticked away and the game remained maddeningly scoreless. Anichebe woon a free-kick out wide that Baines swung in and agains Fellaini had a heading opportunity. Beckford then had another effort on target but it lacked any meaningful pace.

After something of a lull, Everton got forward again and Rodwell drove a shot from outside the area a foot wide of the post. Another forward play was spoilt by Anichebe's poor touch that should have played in Beckford but went straight out of play. Play was broken up for a while with some silly Wigan injury, and after it, Beckford finally beat the offside trap but could not control the ball. 5 mins left and dangerous corners from Wigan were very worrying, Cahill hacking the ball uselessly upfield when more cultured play was called for.

By the end, Beckford was finally getting into the game, but his limited footballing qualiities were his main enemy, increasing the debate that he should be given more than 30 mins of game time to learn how to play the more experienced Premier League defenders. Coleman got fouled wide right earning Figueroa a yellow card but nothing came of the kick and Wigan made their most dangerous attack of the game, fouling Coleman in the build-up as Howard saved a certain goal on the 90.

Five minutes of added time, but Everton's powder-puff attacking prowess was prettty much spent, Beckford repeatedly offside, while Wigan sniffed the chance to grab a winner but N'Zogbia got himself booked for dissent. That was finally it. Same old, same old... Seven painful games without a win since Moyes was proclaimed Manger of the Month...

Depending on your perspective, this was a valiant effort, foiled by a stalwart defensive performance from Wigan... or it was the usual pile of predictable frustrating rubbish from a throughly impotent Everton side that couldn't score in a brothel. I'm going with the latter, and another painful example of the manager's increasing inability to get things right on the day with what he said himself are the best set of players he has had in his long long stint at Goodison Park.


Michael Kenrick     Posted 11/12/2010 at

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Reader Comments

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Tony I'Anson
1   Posted 11/12/2010 at 16:59:01

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Speechless. There may be trouble ahead. Even a win today would be just papering over the cracks.
Ian Edwards
2   Posted 11/12/2010 at 17:00:49

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DAVID MOYES

IN THE NAME OF GOD... JUST GO PLEASE
Terry Downes
3   Posted 11/12/2010 at 17:00:46

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Well, Saha certainly proved Moyes was right sticking with him [NOT!] ? utter shite again

Can anyone tell me what Yakubu as done against Moyes since he scored against Stoke, Moyes just wont play him??
Andrew Conroy
4   Posted 11/12/2010 at 17:06:44

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Victor on the left wing!!!! Sahahahahahahaha on from the start!!!

What more does anybody need to know?!
Jimmy Changa
5   Posted 11/12/2010 at 17:07:12

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What the fuck does Bily have to do to get a game? Anichebe is shite. Also, I think Saha only had 3 touches in 45 minutes and wasn't even near the ball most of the time.

The poor buggers on the bench must be wondering what they have to do to play.
Andy Crooks
6   Posted 11/12/2010 at 17:03:00

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I just got home from work today and switched on "Final Score" The reporter from Goodison park was just sayingthat "the languid disinterested Saha has been replace by the hungry Beckford" Saha, starting again? Surely even the inept incompetent buffoon we have as a manager can see that Saha is not fit to wear the shirt.

Incidentally, if there is any truth in the story that we turned down £8 million for this over-the-hill striker, I think it is safe to say it is the greatest piece of mismanagement in the history of our club.

Please don't let us hear the cry of who will replace Moyes; anyone... fucking anyone. Also not it's the fault of the players. Moyes sent Saha out there today. Go.

Michael Kidd
7   Posted 11/12/2010 at 17:10:21

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Some poor touches and needless offsides from Beckford when he did come on, but how is the guy going to get used to the Premiership pace and get some rhythym going if he only gets cameo appearances? Especially seeing as the guys who are starting are doing next to nothing. Or should that be nothing? What a crock of rubbish.
Anthony Millington
8   Posted 11/12/2010 at 17:11:43

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Moyes is clueless! He's paid 9 mill for Bily and he'd rather put a centre forward (Anichebe) left mid. And as for the secret weapon (Gueye) he's not even in the squad! If we ever needed a secret weapon it's now!

And as for Saha what a waste of space, doesn't score, can't hold the ball up, can't run...so let's play him every game and not win and give him 50k a week. Thanks Moyes!
Denis Richardson
9   Posted 11/12/2010 at 17:13:58

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Jeez - 3 wins in 17 games! Tyring to scrape some sort of brightside out of this and the only thing I can think of is that somehow we are only 4 points off 8th (as well as 2 points from the drop zone).

Man City away, cannot see another Chelsea type result given city are playing well at the moment and Chelsea are in a rut.

Could well be 3 wins out of 18 and in the drop zone come xmas! Whatever needs to be done DM needs to do it fast. 3m quid a year needs to get some sort of result otherwise I dare say things will be looking pretty gloomy come January with no Cahil!
Joe McMahon
10   Posted 11/12/2010 at 17:15:34

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The Apologists said, Judge the season after 10 games (after the shit start), then it was 15, now it's 17 games. I am seriously worried that we will go down. Moyes just can't break his ways.

Why in God's name would you bench Beckford today? I'm livid, I just want him to go ? and take Round with him. If Newcastle don't want Houghton, then I'll have him.

Joe McMahon
11   Posted 11/12/2010 at 17:18:46

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I'd even take McClaren...don't laugh, took Boro to League Cup win and Uefa Cup final.
Jamie Tulacz
12   Posted 11/12/2010 at 17:17:02

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Have to say the worm has turned even for me now. Don't think it's been as bad as many claim over the 9 years and has generally been more good than bad, but feel that Moyes has lost his way now and run out of ideas.

Time to go I'm afraid, before he drags us down
Gareth Humphreys
13   Posted 11/12/2010 at 17:20:34

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Anyone care to mention who would come in to replace him - this of course after paying him off which we can't afford to do?
Thought not.
John Talbot
14   Posted 11/12/2010 at 17:22:40

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Never have we needed a striker more you cannot base your scoring on midfielders.

we are deep in the shit!!
Daniel Johnson
15   Posted 11/12/2010 at 17:23:00

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Spot on, Michael.

I know I have got into trouble on here recently with my language and disgusting insults.

BUT

I'm just very fucking angry and frustrated. I want Moyes out, but due to the contract given to him by Knenwright (why?) he can't be sacked and Kenwright wont sack him anyway.

A very poor Wigan turned up today and we could be playing till 2455 and we still wouldn't beat them.

We're 4th from bottom have failed to beat WBA, Wigan, Woves and Newcastle at home and I'm very very, very concerned.
Alex Mullan
16   Posted 11/12/2010 at 17:29:43

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@ Gareth Humphreys 12

Martin Jol (Now jobless after leaving Ajax)

Martin O'Neill

even Paul the fucking Octopus would do a better job.

Absolutely abysmal today. And btw, offering Victor Anichebe 30k a week is a fucking DISGRACE for an average, crocked player 'striker' who cant even score when hes 'fit' - Why not just use that £30k to buff up Pienaar's wages?? Moronic management.
Daniel Johnson
17   Posted 11/12/2010 at 17:34:24

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Loved the way Moyes put the Striker on the wing instead of brining on our supposed russian winger.
Brian Waring
18   Posted 11/12/2010 at 17:35:59

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Alex, Paul the octopus is dead, might be worth a punt digging him up though!
Dennis Stevens
19   Posted 11/12/2010 at 17:27:57

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Anybody, Gareth - d'you think there's a shortage of manager's willing to accept the kind of contract Moyes is on? You don't think we can afford to pay Moyes off - do you think we can afford to be relegated?
John Talbot
20   Posted 11/12/2010 at 17:36:57

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Pauyl the Octopus died
Tony I'Anson
21   Posted 11/12/2010 at 17:37:32

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Daniel (16) FOR January sales need to keep players fit. Today was a relegation fight unfolding before our very eyes and it's sad to see.
Stewart Oakes
22   Posted 11/12/2010 at 17:30:32

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We had 8 clear cut chances today that we should have put away, if we had put half of those chances away and won 4-0 would you be happy.
Alex Mullan
23   Posted 11/12/2010 at 17:39:27

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I had a feeling Paul the Octopus was dead. Still, the point stands.

In all seriousness, Martin Jol would be a class act for me. Might bring some dutch flair to our dour dour team.
Richard Dodd
24   Posted 11/12/2010 at 17:34:48

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No worse position at this stage than we have been in the past, I`m still backing us to gain a satisfactory half-way place by season`s end. Then it will be time to review the situation ? not now!
Jamie Tulacz
25   Posted 11/12/2010 at 17:46:12

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Why oh why was Saha started today? The Yak was dropped just when he was hitting form for me, and Beckford has looked our one striker capable of scoring this season. Baffling..
Brian Waring
26   Posted 11/12/2010 at 17:45:36

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So you don't think 3 wins in 17 needs reviewing now, Richard?

3pts from a possible 15 at home, against West Brom, Wolves, Newcastle, Bolton and Wigan, that doesn't need reviewing then Richard?

Brian Waring
27   Posted 11/12/2010 at 17:48:39

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Thats the most baffling for me aswell Jamie, dropping the Yak, when he was showing a bit of form.

Something must have gone on behind the scenes, I mean, Saha is fucking woeful, but the Yak still can't get a look - in.
Dennis Stevens
28   Posted 11/12/2010 at 17:50:14

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"... a satisfactory half-way place by season`s end ..." - pitiful, Richard.
Brian Waring
29   Posted 11/12/2010 at 17:52:34

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Dennis, it's comments like Richard's, that have made Moyes untouchable, quite sad really.
Chris Jones
30   Posted 11/12/2010 at 17:55:03

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BBC report says:

"The Toffees appear to relish the role of underdogs but regularly stumble when there is an expectation placed on their shoulders."

Sums up Moyes's tenure in one sentence. I'm afraid he has got to go.
Dennis Stevens
31   Posted 11/12/2010 at 17:56:15

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Worse than that Brian, I fear Richard may be a little over-optimistic in his forecast.
Denis Richardson
32   Posted 11/12/2010 at 17:54:59

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Let be honest, unless a miracle happens it will be 3 wins from 18 come next weekend.

Still you could say we were a little unlucky today but starting with Saha and then putting Anichebe on the left wing - when we have a (supposed) left winger on the bench, is beyound me.

cannot surely be long before DM starts to lose the derssing room. Players like Bily, JH, Yak and Beckford must be starting to get pissed off. Once the rot starts its difficult to turn things around.......
Dave Richman
33   Posted 11/12/2010 at 18:05:30

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Stewart #21: That's quite correct.... we would have been happy with 4-0. What's your point mate? We didn't score.
Graeme Hodgkinson
34   Posted 11/12/2010 at 18:14:06

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I would like to think that this transfer window were going to see significant changes (esp up front). But after a look at our record of transsfers in January, im not so sure!

We haven't signed player permanently for anything like a half dedcent fee since 2005. Guess who...James Beattie!

I wont be holding my breath...
Sam Alcarez
35   Posted 11/12/2010 at 18:18:16

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Beckford's finishing may need work, but he always seems to create chances when he's in. That and he's always around when there's a play coming together; Saha seems to disappear for minutes on end, we can't have that now, and especially not when Cahill leaves.
Colin Potter
36   Posted 11/12/2010 at 18:11:45

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How old are you Dodd, 8,9,maybe 10?
People like you are an embarassment to this club.
Paul Olsen
37   Posted 11/12/2010 at 18:29:40

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Considering the unusual amount of typo´s in this piece i guess you are currently deep in your cups Michael. I don´t blame you one little bit.
Barry Thompson
38   Posted 11/12/2010 at 18:30:55

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The fat lady is finally singing.
Michael Kenrick
39   Posted 11/12/2010 at 18:36:13

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Like the team, I'm struggling for motivation, Paul. Going through that report again means re-living it again and, to be honest, it's only worth forgetting... except that it's now inscribed for posterity in the record books as the latest paragraph in the record of our long long history.

Do I sound depressed? I think I am... this painful frustration gives way to numbing apathy... I don't even have the energy after that painfully predictable episode to get annoyed anymore... and now fucking Liverpool just go and score. Where's my gun?
David Edwards
40   Posted 11/12/2010 at 18:39:43

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Taxi for DM and BK! Surely even the most ardent supporters realise something is now seriously up with our club. If we don't change things soon - we will be relegated on this form. The club is just SO STALE!
Jon Cox
41   Posted 11/12/2010 at 18:31:17

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And now the shite have equalised. What a garbage day. I haven't even got any friggin alcohol in the house.

Still, at least Moyes didn't start with Rodwell on the right wing.

GRR!
Daniel Johnson
42   Posted 11/12/2010 at 18:40:26

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If I read another post saying

"If not Moyes then who"

I will fucking implode.

Remember its fucking David Moyes who has taken us to this current position of dire fucking straights.
Jon Cox
43   Posted 11/12/2010 at 18:42:12

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I'm so depressed. Could we call all the players back and make them play the game again.

On second thoughts we'd only see Saha start again.

Bugger it, I'm off to get a bottle of red (or two)

And if the parrot says one word it gets it.
Andy Codling
44   Posted 11/12/2010 at 18:48:55

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Shall not be renewing next season, had enough of watching utter shit , I dont enjoy it anymore.
That and the fact that average championship players like Anichebe can turn down 30 grand a week.
And Doddy fuck off you arsewipe
Stewart Oakes
45   Posted 11/12/2010 at 18:32:32

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Dave #33, my point is that the tactics we played today could have given us a 4-0 win instead of a 0-0 yet most people can't see that and moan about the way we play, the only thing we should be moaning about todays performance is the poor quality of our finishing. Saha is getting a lot of stick but if you think about the first half the chances fell to the midfield players, Cahill, Fellaini, Rodwell, who was creating the space?. After the swap Becford had most of the chances because we changed the way we got the ball up the pitch.
Jon Cox
46   Posted 11/12/2010 at 18:53:19

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"... a satisfactory half-way place by season`s end ..."

The comedy on this site is breathtaking. "Satisfactory" ???

What a week to give up heroin!!
Andy Tyler
47   Posted 11/12/2010 at 18:53:38

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Andy ##44

I'm pleased I am not the only one. I live in Lincolnshire and have had a season ticket for 12 years. I haven't been today, because I could see another poor performance/result looming. I don't get any joy out of my decision being justified, but I'm losing faith with Moyes (who I have been a supporter of) and the players. I'm sick of predictable play safe tactics, 4-5-1, players earning lots of money who aren't good enough and/or interested.

Jon Cox
48   Posted 11/12/2010 at 18:58:24

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Stewart, sorry mate but a centre forward who's payed 50k a week should not need other players for him to score. For that sort of money I want a guy who can get the ball, beat a man or two and put the ball into the bloody net.

Saha is crap. At least Beckford gets into good positions and I didn't see us play much different after Becks came on.

Of course you may be getting confused with the fact that when Becks came on there was an up in the teams enthusiasm just like last week at the bridge.
Alex Mullan
49   Posted 11/12/2010 at 19:11:23

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Today was a prime example of how dependent we are on Cahill. He can't score every week and we are absolutely buggered if he doesnt. It will be great craic in Jan when hes pissed off to Asia. Saying that I don't blame him, playing against the likes of Iran or North Korea will most likely be a step up than this current load of bollox can offer.
Colin Ryan
50   Posted 11/12/2010 at 19:16:23

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Just watching Jimmy Vaughan limping off the pitch injured in his last game before he comes back to us. Have we any luck at all?
John Ford
51   Posted 11/12/2010 at 19:13:05

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To pick Saha after he has time and again failed to even do the bare minimum - i.e make the effort, is just odd. Victor was in the wrong place, wrong time.

Again the boys had a real good go, but picking Saha completelly disables the team in the final quartser. Just give beckford a good go.
Michael Kenrick
52   Posted 11/12/2010 at 19:21:33

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Oooo fabulous strike by Carroll.... maybe I'm a bit happier now...

How fucking sad is that! We need those kopshite bastards fucking up to make us happy.
Gavin Ramejkis
53   Posted 11/12/2010 at 19:06:58

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Stewart, Saha is fucking shite, how many times was he on the touchline instead of in the box, how many times was he near the corner flag instead of in the box, how many fucking times do you need to watch him to realise he is shite, past it and not worth a fucking penny never mind a contract or a game? Beckford for all his failings comes on and despite being offside for his "goal" still managed to pick his spot and curl it around the keeper with a striker's finish - Saha struck his shot right into the keepers arms.

It's pretty much nonsense either way as that misery in the dugout does the same shit week in week out, same shite players start games, same late subs to try to change but more incriminating is he only ever makes like for like subs instead of formation and strategy changes in line with how the game is going, that little trick that football managers get paid a healthy sum of money for, DM wouldn't know how to if it came up and bit him on his stubborn miserable arse.
Tony I'Anson
54   Posted 11/12/2010 at 19:19:56

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On a positive note, Rebecca is a Blue.
On a negative note, we've got to put up with Vargner for Hogmanay in Stirling.

It's squeaky bum time for the board of directors and the advisors of EFC. I can only imagine the alledged imminent sale price reducing by £50m if we finish 17th this season......every cloud.
Marc Williams
55   Posted 11/12/2010 at 19:04:31

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Richard (#24):

Another hard fort & glorious point won in our stupendous & illustrious battle for those satisfactory mid-table places, is it, Doddy?

Thanks & praise to the Moyesiah & True Blue (He's a fan you know) Bill, for another enthrailing & entertaining match at Goodison... eh?

After such a satisfactory day, you should treat yourself to an extra wank over their pictures to celebrate!!!
Marc Williams
56   Posted 11/12/2010 at 19:27:47

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Michael (#52) ? The sad thing is we need the Shite to beat Newcastle to keep them in the relegation battle we are now undoubtedly in.
Ian Edwards
57   Posted 11/12/2010 at 19:34:42

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Managers that would do a better job than Dithering Dave:

Martin Jol
Martin O'Neill
Slaven Bilic
Chris Hughton
David Jones
Roberto Mancini
Phil Neville (Player Manager)

If anyone else says "well who can replace Moyes" read the above.
Mike Hughes
58   Posted 11/12/2010 at 19:19:37

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3-1 to the barcodes!!! Didn't cheer me up as much as usual due to our tepid, clueless effort today. Couldn't believe Saha started again and upset about Paul the Octopus.

I recall that it was around this time of year about 27 years ago when I came in from school and my Mum who'd been listening to the radio while peeling the spuds said, "Everton have signed someone called Gray." His signing and the regular inclusion of Peter Reid transformed the Blues from a similar kind of position we are in now. I know Andy Gray is no longer a hero to the Blues these days but we could do with someone like that in this transfer window. Not hopeful though.
Graham Holliday
59   Posted 11/12/2010 at 19:46:29

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17 games into the season.

We've won 3. Drawn 9.

It's time, I think.

If Moyes can't see we have to be more adventurous to pick up more points, then he's clearly flogging a dead horse.
Dave Lynch
60   Posted 11/12/2010 at 19:33:31

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I was coming home from the match composing a post in my head about that load of utter, utter shite I witnessed today. But I just can't be arsed, I am totally drained of all emotion ? and I hate apathy.

Even the dog has got a handle on my moods, the minute I walked in, the poor mutt took one look at me and ran and hid.

Ray Roche
61   Posted 11/12/2010 at 19:43:34

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When Pienaar went off, we lost any attacking strengths we may have down the left because Bailes was unable to get forward as much. Why wasn't Gueye available, or Bily? We should be replacing a left winger WITH a left winger, not playing arseholes like Anichebe who doesn't give a flying fuck about Everton.
Ray Robinson
62   Posted 11/12/2010 at 19:46:31

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Moyes has got one last chance to redeem himself in the January transfer window and lack of funds is for once not an excuse, with valued assets sitting on the bench. Otherwise, there will surely be a record drop in season ticket renewals.
Barry Thompson
63   Posted 11/12/2010 at 19:44:41

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We couldn't even afford Andy Pandy.
Ian McDowell
64   Posted 11/12/2010 at 19:50:35

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Today was shocking; the thing is I could see the game becoming desperate after 15 minutes. It says a lot when your most attacking outlet is your left back.
Tony I'Anson
65   Posted 11/12/2010 at 19:51:30

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Ray, in the football world it's the only language that is understood. But let's not forget we've already "spent" next year's season ticket revenue have we not? Please confirm that we are being taken for granted.
Barry Thompson
66   Posted 11/12/2010 at 19:51:38

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Don't worry about ticket sales, Ray, Kenwright will be all over the SSN telling all Evertonians to "watch this space" with big hints about signing Messi ? only for it to transpire after another bumper sale of season tickets that we have actually signed Nessie, yes, another fucking carthorse.
Neil Patten
67   Posted 11/12/2010 at 19:51:20

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We are now at a crossroads. We have played some good football this year without getting results. We all wanted to see "joined-up" football but it is not working for us. Individual errors by the likes of Howard and Jags have cost us big time. Added to that, we cannot score if our life depended on it and it appears that we have a few disruptive attitudes and passengers within the squad.

Moyes must act quick. The season is a near write-off (very disappointing considering the woeful standard of the Premier League this year). If he uses January to offload the likes of Heitinga, Bily, Anichebe, etc and bring in a complete change of players and attitude then most people will support him. If he does his usual nothing and we "stick with what we have got" and continue to play with one up front, then the end is coming very quickly.
Thor Sørensen
68   Posted 11/12/2010 at 19:55:19

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The "goal" Beckford scored was actually NOT offside.

Replays showed he was onside, showed good composure and the goal should've been allowed to stand.
Larry Boner
69   Posted 11/12/2010 at 19:51:46

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Tony I'Anson, how do you know Rebecca Ferguson is a Blue? I know Matt Cardle's Dad is a blue, but he supports Spurs.

All I have to say regarding the game today is, if we had took 1/10th of the chances we had then we would have won easily, across the season the same analogy would see us in the top 4.

Watched the RS tonight and they scored another unbelievably lucky goal, but still got fucking battered, how the fuck are they 4 points ahead of anyone, never mind us?

Tony I'Anson
70   Posted 11/12/2010 at 20:07:00

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Larry, she sent me a text after the match to say how disappointed she was that we never won. Plus the girl oozes sheer class, and was born a blue, not created. (Well... I've got to hang on to something.)
Brian Waring
71   Posted 11/12/2010 at 20:15:18

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"How the fuck are they 4 pts ahead of anyone, never mind us?" ?Because we are shitter than them, that's why, Larry.

Ray Robinson
72   Posted 11/12/2010 at 20:17:18

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Neil #67 that's exactly my thoughts. To do nothing is not an option. If we have no money, then trade the baggage we have accumulated.
Tony Christian
73   Posted 11/12/2010 at 20:15:04

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The problem with Everton is that we are predictable. Every man and his dog could have named Everton's team & tactics today and teams like Wigan just need to adopt the same tactics as Wolves, Newcastle, Bolton, Stoke & West Brom in the comfort of knowing that they will limit Everton to a possible one goal.

Moyes simply has no Plan B and, given the fact he has a fairly talanted squad of players at his disposal, I find it unforgivable that we are underachieving. Sacking Moyes is not an option but, boy oh boy, he needs to get his head out of his arse and come up with something different. As for relegation ? if anyone can, Davey Can!!!

Brian Waring
74   Posted 11/12/2010 at 20:23:51

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Tony, that's one of the problems, Moyes is so predictable.

I believe at today's game, Martinez saved Moyes a job, and filled in our teamsheet for him, before handing it in to the ref.
Mike Hughes
75   Posted 11/12/2010 at 20:28:25

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I notice in the aftermatch interview, Martinez felt like Wigan had dropped two points. How embarrassing can it get? (Or is that tempting fate?)
Dermot Ryan
76   Posted 11/12/2010 at 20:21:43

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Neil: Great post. The January market is an opportunity for Moyes to draw a line under the sand, set a marker for change.

We cannot afford to have the likes of HeitInga on the bench. I reckon we might get something near what we paid for him. I'd imagine we are going to have to take a significant hit on Bily. But I think it is time for him to play or go. Anichebe should fuck himself off as well.

At this stage, if we can get rid of Saha on loan that would be awesome. i just don't think we should be able to give ourselves him as an option: nice technically but totally shot as a striker.

I don't think this is Moyes's style however. There is a fatalism to his entire approach that makes me despair of him ever making bold changes.

Colin Malone
77   Posted 11/12/2010 at 20:15:53

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CLUELESS. Only for Jags, we could have lost.

Just like the West Brom game, Wigan sat back and could of scored on the break. Their goalie was not outstanding, we were just shit around the penalty area.

Rodwell stunk.

Sounds daft but the only way Moyes is going to improve, is when we only have eleven fit players.

Tony I'Anson
78   Posted 11/12/2010 at 20:36:14

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Ruthlessness at all levels is required. SAF is only still at United as he got rid of McClair, Sparky, Kanchelskis, Robson, and a few others in one fell swoop. Guess who replaced them?

Maybe it's time to show the same vision by our manager. No doubt he's had a wee chat about this to Suralex.
Tony I'Anson
79   Posted 11/12/2010 at 20:51:54

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Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeessssss

Rebecca is in the final
Joe McMahon
80   Posted 11/12/2010 at 20:50:45

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Will people please stop talking about the January window. Do you exepct Moyes to change? If he had £100 million and signed Messi, he would bring him on as a 78th minute sub.

Every manger we face no longer worries about playing Everton. They know how we play and who we play and who we leave on the bench. Why on earth did Beckford not start? And Magaye Gueye is probrably wondering what has he done...

I fear this season will make history for all the wrong reasons. I was going to say we are going the same way as Southampton, Coventry, Derby, Boro but we ain't ? they all have new stadiums.

Leon Perrin
81   Posted 11/12/2010 at 20:42:22

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Moyes, you may be well over 6ft but you've the heart of a mouse. Mickey Moyes has a ring to it.

When Benitez started insulting the club you should have told him to fuck off; when Rooney's agent began fucking this club over, you should have told him to fuck off; when Kenwright and Co fanny over transfer funds, you should tell 'em sort it or fuck off.

You are a gutless fraud taking over £3 million out the till... fuck the shite analysis over weird team selection; if you had Messi, no-one would be surprised if you had him selling programs.

I know there are dickheads who can't see it even after 9 years.
Guess what? Fuck off.
Eugene Ruane
82   Posted 11/12/2010 at 20:42:20

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Ron 'Doddy' Manager: "Davey Moyes.... mmm isn't it? You know steely-eyed, GRRR, dour Scot you know, takes no prisoners, 7 at the back, Everton, aren't they? The Toffees, the Toffeemen, the People's Club isn't it, aren't they? Bill Kenwright ? hahahahaha ? lovely man. Boys Pen, Davey Hickson, Cannonball Kid wasn't it? Ummm... you know, Jenny Seagrove COOOARR! Small boys in midfield, Fellaini's for goalposts. New manager? I should cocoa. Moyesie's the boy, he'll turn things around! Can't they? Doesn't he?"
Brian Waring
83   Posted 11/12/2010 at 21:06:22

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Eugene, you are one funny man!
Joe McMahon
84   Posted 11/12/2010 at 21:07:19

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Eugene, that's fab. I even read it with the voice. Sadly you can't really call Everton's midfield The Fast Show.
Terry Hayes
85   Posted 11/12/2010 at 20:23:32

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Ok I'll probably get my head ripped off but here goes...

In the past our fortunes have changed for the better, not by good management but by circumstances. Cahill is the only one scoring at the moment but he may also be one of the reasons that we are not scoring more as he does lack in certain areas.

In January when he leaves, I would love to see Rodwell pushed further forward to support the striker with Arteta and Fellaini behind him. Something has to change, it's all too predictable at the moment.

Simon Temme
86   Posted 11/12/2010 at 21:23:17

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Ian (#57) ? Your list contains the one perfect candidate: David Jones ? a manager who knows about attacking football, a manger who knows what Everton means... a manager who would jump at the chance of managing Everton.

We need a note from the students book ? direct action... BK OUT... DM OUT.

If not, then at least DM out, DJ in.

Ian Smitham
87   Posted 11/12/2010 at 21:33:39

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Neil (67) good post on a well thought out thread aside from the usual abuse.

Still, that said you mentioned some you would get rid of and added only "etc" Who do you mean?

On another thread earlier today peeps were contesting that we have no money. We have spent a few quid and though it may not be the amounts other teams have done, if i were in charge i would tell the manager to raise funds for transfers himself and the thre you mentioned while on my list would only be part of it. Anyone got any constructive ideas?
Jon Poole
88   Posted 11/12/2010 at 21:35:11

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Do you think I could get Moyes's job as I won the Prem and Champs League on Fifa 11 with the Blues? Saha is fucking useless on there to...
Tony Carney
89   Posted 11/12/2010 at 21:46:02

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My partner and one-year-old daughter are in Sharm El Sheikh and they have just told me they would rather swim in the sea than come back to watch that shower of shite. I for one don't blame them...
Charlie Percival
90   Posted 11/12/2010 at 21:31:22

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DAVID MOYES ? YOUR PHILOSOPHY AND TACTICS ARE FADING... LIKE YOUR GINGER ROOTS.
Robert Daniels
91   Posted 11/12/2010 at 21:49:33

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On another post, I put forward a team that I would like to see play, and we all have our opinions of who we would choose, if it was up to us. Let's face it, we all think we could pick the team, and after another bad result, we probably could. But my team was more about formation, tactics in my mind ? it wasn't about the players, more the formation.

Teams in the Prem play either 4-4-2 or 4-5-1; we play neither. We play 4-4-1-1... and to me that's the problem. When we play this, our four-man midfield is overrun by a team that plays five in midfield. There is always an extra midfielder to close us down, resulting in us being harried into making a bad pass, between the halfway line and the opposition box.

If I was an opposition manager playing Everton next game, I would put five men in midfield and stifle them, I would only worry about Cahill from a set piece. Chelsea, when they're all fit, play 4-5-1, Drogba up front, and Malouda and Anelka wide. A midfield three of Lampard, Ession, Mikel, and over lapping fullbacks... It works.

Man Utd play 4-4-2, Rooney and Berbatov, as the two main strikers, each occupying the opposition centre halves... It works.

Everton play 4-4-1-1, Saha or Yak or Beckford up front, Cahill, somewhere up front, but not as an outright forward, playing on the shoulder of the last defender, and not making the sort of runs Beckford made today for his wrongly disallowed goal... Four men in midfield... It doesn't work.

Cahill for me is great, a legend... but his presence dictates our formation. The (in-the-hole) position, as some call it, for me doesn't work, we are being found out every week, it's not rocket science. We need to play a proper system, formation.

I believe we still have a good crop of players to match most teams... but we limit ourselves by playing the same predictable shite, every week.

If we played Beckford up front (or Yak or Saha), Anichebe and Gueye wide (or Bily or Baxter, Pienaar or Coleman, etc). Fellaini, Rodwell, with either Pienaar or Arteta, or Osman, or Bily, or Baxter... etc, with overlapping fullbacks, Baines and Coleman.

We would at the very least be playing a system, that would involve a proper position for them all to play in. Instead of being disjointed with the mythical man in the hole.

Paul Gallagher
92   Posted 11/12/2010 at 22:30:35

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Why did he bring Anichebe on, put him on the left wing for five minutes, then drop Cahill into midfield when he is the only player who looks like scoring for us???
Stuart Ansell
93   Posted 11/12/2010 at 22:27:13

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I've been a big fan of Moyes and always fought his corner... When he first took up the reigns, our team was nothing more than a long ball scrapping football team that clung onto the Premiership like a tramp with his last chip...

But I'm totally giving up on him. I've never been blown away by his tactics, never mind his mysterious substitutions at times, but I've admired what he's done with the limited resources he's been given. But this season I just feel he is a complete bottler... I'm sure he uses an Everton top trump set from 2008 when he picks the team.

I'll only be repeating what everyone else has said, but it's like playing with 10 men when Saha is up front... Beckford does more in the 25 minutes he's given than Saha has this season and why can't Moyes see it?

I just think Moyes can't make the big decisions... If a young lad like Seamus is playing better than an established player, stick him in... If your Spanish wizard is playing below par ? drop him... If you have a choice of strikers that aren't scoring, at least pick the one making chances. We should've been throwing everything at them in that last 20 minutes... but no, we only play with one recognised striker at a time (I don't include the god Cahill as a striker).

This transfer window in January is massive for Moyes this season... He needs to be ruthless and get rid of the players he doesn't give a chance to ? what's the point of them sitting their arses on the bench, week-in, week-out?

If he doesn't like Bily then get rid. I like Big Vic on his day but let him go if he doesn't want to sign. Show the Yak and Saha the door, get rid of a big name central midfielder as we seem over abundant in that area. We need better balance in the team... fast wingers, a talented striker, left back for cover and maybe even Given if we could get him.

If Moyes carriers on doing nothing and picking the same team playing the same tactics, then I'm afraid he has to go.

I'm getting so numbstruck this season, I hardly give a shit if we win or lose... I can't believe i just said that ? sad times.

Jamie Tulacz
94   Posted 11/12/2010 at 23:09:43

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Just watched the highlights on MotD as I didn't catch the game today.

To be honest, it didn't look like to me that we were being negative and sitting back, although highlights can be deceptive. 6 or 7 golden chances... we just couldn't stick the ball in the net yet again, which has been our problem all season.

I would have to say that Stewart (22) has a bit of a point there... To be honest, we have to prioritise getting a striker asap, get rid of Heitinga and Bily, who have both done less than nothing this season, that should hopefully fund someone half decent. For once, Moyes needs to throw caution to the wind, but I can't see it happening somehow.

Peter Laing
95   Posted 11/12/2010 at 23:16:09

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Cheered me up, that, Eugene; you should submit a post along those lines regarding the life and times of Bill Kenwright, aged 64¾.
Andy Roberts
96   Posted 11/12/2010 at 23:31:26

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Two things summed Moyes up for me today. He selects Anichebe as a substitute after he has refused the offer of a new contract on £30k a week. Then, to make things worse, he brings him on. How can he justify either of those decisions?

I wouldn't pick him for the reserves, never mind for the first team. He has never fulfilled his potential and struts around as if he's already made it and now has the audacity to refuse to sign a new contract.

Do us a favour, Davie... grow some balls, or fuck off!

Ernie McAllister
97   Posted 12/12/2010 at 00:06:30

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Michael you say the following: Beckford was finally getting into the game, but his limited footballing qualiities were his main enemy.

I simply don't agree with it. The lad is barely ever given a chance, he comes on in place of an inept washed up wanker who should have been sold in the transfer window for an estimated £7 million.

The lad is lacking confidence, has no fucking idea how the team plays because he rarely plays with the lads. If anything, it's upto the rest of the team to get the ball to him.

Give him more game time and I think he will come good. Berating him, while the rest of the lads on the pitch have been pitiful, week-in and week-out...
Ernie McAllister
98   Posted 12/12/2010 at 00:11:12

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Jamie Tulacz ? and the likes of Neville is taking up a valuable spot... along with a whole bunch of other players. If Pienaar isn't going to sign a new contract by January, then we need to sell him. I haven't seen enough of this season, as to why we'd even miss him to be honest.

We rely too much on the predictable left wing anyway... maybe it would be a good idea to sell.
Eugene Ruane
99   Posted 12/12/2010 at 01:36:17

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Ernie, you say...

"We rely to much on the predictable left wing anyway"

After today, I'd go along with that.

It worked for 20 mins this avvy, but then they sussed it and when Baines would make the run for the return from a one-two with Pienaar (or whoever), they KNEW it was coming and began to cut out those balls.

Talking to my mate earlier, he reckoned our most productive tactic at the moment is Pienaar or Arteta going down on the edge of the box from a fiddly debatable foul and whatever comes from the resulting free kick. He said 'If you take that away, we've very little in attack'.

Depressingly, I couldn't really disagree.
Liu Weixian
100   Posted 12/12/2010 at 02:47:34

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Just get rid of Anichebe and Saha. The sorry pair cannot hit a barn door from six yards. Surely it should free up some money for a decent striker!

Moyes played a half-fit striker on the left flank when Bily would have been a better choice. It just summed up how tactically inept our manager is. He should just go. I'll pay for his taxi.
Paul Rimmer
101   Posted 12/12/2010 at 02:52:38

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I think Moyes needs to go... but we need to change the Chairman and board first. Moyes has done well ? but has made mistakes...

No right midfielder, new contract for Hibbert, Bily, too reliant on Neville/Saha, don't know what he sees in Anichebe. Coleman should be right back with Arteta right and Beckford up front. We have little pace in the team; since Donovan left, we've not scared defences.

However, changing the manager will be papering over the cracks. Sure, with a new manager, we could change the formation and tactics a bit... but, with the same faces and bargain basement signings, we're not going to do a lot. This squad is average.

Those who think that because this is Moyes's best squad, we should be challenging for the title/CL, are deluded. We are capable of getting results against big teams but so are Blackpool ? it's about having the players to do this consistently.

Since our 5th place finishes other teams have invested and we have not. We desperately need a striker and pacy wingers but, without selling either Rodwell or Fellaini, this isn't going to happen.

Get shut of Kenwright ? bring some "Kenwright Out" banners to the game. A new chairman/board can then bring in a new manager at the end of the season... Owen Coyle/Dave Jones/Jol would do me. Even with one of these though we may only ever get back to 5th without considerable investment.

Alan Clarke
102   Posted 12/12/2010 at 07:27:13

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Why does anyone still think Moyes can turn this round? He hasn't even tried to turn it round. He's sent the same predictable team out all season. He's like a fly trying to find its way out of a shut window, persevering with the same tired and worn out way of doing things.
Christine Foster
103   Posted 12/12/2010 at 07:35:41

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Paul Rimmer, that's exactly what I have been saying for the past few months... the only way we will see a new manager this season is if Moyes walks. Unlikely but I do have a sneeky suspicion that he might.

Also did anyone notice the shot of Kenwright frustrated and shaking his head and muttering? All is not well and the man may yet surprise us all and drop Moyes like a hot brick...

In an effort to deflect any critical comment on his leadership perhaps?
Paul Rimmer
104   Posted 12/12/2010 at 07:54:52

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I can't see Kenwright sacking him, he couldn't afford to anyway. I doubt Moyes would walk either. The only way is to sack the board and let them get their own man in.
Ajay Gopal
105   Posted 12/12/2010 at 08:40:31

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Paul (#104) - there are ways in which the Board can get Moyes out. Have a quiet word with him and negotiate a 'severance package'. It happens all the time in the corporate world. If DM refuses to budge, then 'freeze him out' and in the worst case, humiliate him by demoting him to reserves coach or something similar. I don't want that to happen because I believe Moyes is a decent man, and he did well for us till last season.

If it happens, I would take up Ian Edwards's suggestion (#57) and appoint Phil Neville as a Player/Manager. Kill 3 birds with 1 stone:
  • A decent (but unproved) manager who knows all about winning and also about Everton and the fans, board & players.
  • No increase in the wage bill
  • Less playing time for him - giving more opportunity for the likes of Seamus Coleman.

Then, sell Heitinga, Bily, Anichebe, Saha. Get two decent replacements ? for example, Donovan and a skilled striker. Keep Pienaar by giving him what he wants. And build the team around:

Howard, Coleman, Jagielka, Heitinga, Baines, Pienaar, Rodwell, Fellaini, Arteta, Cahill, New Striker. Blood the youngsters ? by giving them regular opportunities ? the likes of Beckford, Vaughan, Gueye, Duffy, Mustafi, Mucha, Barkley, etc.
Ryan Rosenberg
106   Posted 12/12/2010 at 11:15:41

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I'd also like to get rid of that fucker Round.
Andrew Clare
107   Posted 12/12/2010 at 11:36:19

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Leon @ 81 is right in his observation ? read it.

This is Everton and we haven't won anything since '95. Since HK's first reign and Royle's stint we have been very predictable and mediocre with the exception of a couple of highlights that a top team wouldn't call highlights. What has happened to our club? This manager hasn't got a clue.

Robert @ 91 is also right ? playing Cahill in the hole behind the striker really limits our options. We want a manager who is brave and tactically aware and not afraid of anybody.

If we offloaded Yakubu, Saha and Anichibe they would probably look like different players in another team. It is our negative/cautious approach that makes these players look so bad.

With regards to yesterday's match, Saha and Anichebe shouldn't have even been on the bench!

Tony Gee
108   Posted 12/12/2010 at 10:35:00

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"I would take up Ian Edwards's suggestion (#57) and appoint Phil Neville as a Player/Manager. Kill 3 birds with 1 stone."

Fuck me....

Moyes out, Big Ron in....
Michael Parkes
109   Posted 12/12/2010 at 13:09:23

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Pellegrini.
Terry McLavey
110   Posted 12/12/2010 at 13:25:01

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Put the score page on BBC teletext, did some Christmas shopping on the computer, kept getting up to see score, not really suprised to see 0 - 0 all the way through the afternoon... felt sorry for the poor buggers who've paid good money to watch what was probably a shite match, grateful I live in Cornwall now so I am not really tempted to drive all that way to see a team that plays the same match whoever they're playing.

DM ? you've run out of steam and ideas... is "King!" Louis holding your kids hostage?! At least Beckford makes an effort! Reminds me of where I work, too many mates in management that will not speak up and do something even when things are shite!! Again, my plea: Mr O'Neill, please give us a ring!!

Dan McKie
111   Posted 12/12/2010 at 14:01:07

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For the first time, I was wanting Moyes out yesterday, and the team deserved the boos both at half-time and full. People saying Martin O'Neill though? Every team he has ever managed has just been a long ball one, Villa were an awful side to watch under him.

If we shold be going after anyone, it should be Ian Holloway at Blackpool. They play awesome stuff. I live there and go see them whenever I'm not at an Everton game, and there is no fear from the team or the fans, even when they are a goal down, because they know they will create at the other end ? and the ball rarely leaves the turf.

Chris Sillett
112   Posted 12/12/2010 at 14:38:06

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Despite leaving the match yesterday fuming about the result, after calming down and thinking about the performance, I thought we played 'ok' and were unlucky not to score, Cahill's header on another day goes in, Beckford's offside goal is given, and Fellaini's header in the first half should have at least troubled the keeper.

The biggest annoyance for me was the decision to start Saha. Travelling to the game, me and my mates were all in agreement that it would be a joke to carry on starting him but, lo and behold, on arriving at the ground, it's announced that the man with no league goal in 9 month's is playing.

January is a HUGE month for us now, Kenwright and Moyes have to break their balls to get some striker's in or I will be storming that Goodison boardroom myself!!

Chris Sillett
113   Posted 12/12/2010 at 14:43:30

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People who are suggesting Phil Neville should replace Moyes must still be drunk from last night! Seriously, would you have someone who has never even coached before become our manager? Middlesbrough went down that route with Gareth Southgate and look at them now....

If Moyes was ever to leave then the only two managers we should be looking at would be Martin Jol and Martin O'Niell.
Paul Carr
114   Posted 12/12/2010 at 15:28:27

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Bad news, guys ? just received the EFC newsletter and DM is looking forward to another 400 games! GOD HELP US. See below:

David Moyes is ready to manage Everton for another 400 games. "Moyes was in charge of the Blues for the 400th time against Chelsea last time out and told evertontv: "If life is good to me and Everton is good to me and I feel I am still up for it and the supporters want me then I'll be happy to do 400 more."
John Flood
115   Posted 12/12/2010 at 15:56:43

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This season is reminding me so much of the 1983-84 season. Just like then, some of our overall play has actually been good, playing joined-up football rather than the ?hoofball? of old... but, despite creating chances, we just cannot put the ball in the net and find ourselves too close to be relegation zone for comfort.

Back in the winter of ?83, there wasn?t actually much wrong (as proved within 12 months) ? the team just needed a spark to get them going, and that came with the arrival of Andy Gray. Today, we are very much in the same situation; we just need a spark to get us going.

Back in ?83, the board stuck with Kendall which proved to be correct decision. If the internet and ToffeeWeb had been around then, I am sure most of the posts would have called for Kendall?s head, which would have proved to be a disaster.

Whilst not saying Moyes is going to turn us into Champions within 12 months, I equally think that he is a good manager who has transformed the squad from the OAP home that Walter Smith left us with, and with a few key additions we would be a very good side. Now is not the time to panic.

Pat Whitmore
116   Posted 12/12/2010 at 16:18:06

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It's depressing stuff and I just don't get all these people who defend Moyes and say what a good manager he is. I live and work in Birmingham and people say I'm mad when I slate Moyes. I've never liked the guy from the day he joined and for some unknown reason every man and his dog elsewhere think he is some kind of genius.

Relegation is a big threat and if they don't step up soon it will be too late.The wheel has turned full circle for Moyes and if the club doesn't have the balls to act or him the decency to go then we'll be in a worse position than when he arrived.

Dark days ahead, I fear!!!

Lol McNally
117   Posted 12/12/2010 at 17:47:13

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I'm glad it's our best squad... or we would be in the shit!

4-4-2, Moyes ? stop fucking about!

Gavin Ramejkis
118   Posted 12/12/2010 at 20:30:36

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John, DM has turned Everton into the most predictable lame side in the EPL. In nearly nine years he hasn't changed the record, any form has come when his back is against the wall and injuries rather than his nous have chosen the squad.

The past is gone, today is where it's happening, here and now, and it's gone pear-shaped big time with no changes to the game plan... how much longer do we wait?

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