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Let's keep it civil, please.

The "Independent" tag in the descriptive subtitle of this website was a deliberate move made years ago when others around used the odd term "unofficial". Some will remember it took years for the 'Official' Everton Website to become anything like worthy of the name... during which time we helped fill the void.

We knew we were here for the long term, our primary mission morphing over time from the original endeavour ? to provide some basic Everton presence and electronic record on the then embryonic interweb. Now, the stats and facts available on this website take a back seat to providing an unparalleled forum for independent viewpoints about Everton Football Club.

Despite fallacious claims to the contrary, we generally post what we receive... and we "encourage" input from all points of the Everton compass ? be it favourable or unfavorable to the current management and leadership of the club. Hence the "independent" tag. But being independent does not have to mean we encourage mindless abuse.

So to the point of this ramble: I don't like to see Evertonians using this website as a means for telling people at the Club to "fuck off" ? especially people they've probably never met... and they would mortified at the prospect of telling them that face-to-face. No matter how bad the performances on the field, or how cringeworthy the latest utterances of the Chairman, there is to my mind no excuse for using the web to tell the Chairman, Manager, or any player to "fuck off".

These last few weeks, it's become something of a catch-phrase for those who can't come up with anything even a little more intelligent... and as of now, I'm calling a stop to it. No doubt there's plenty to be concerned about, but finishing your diatribes with that expletive is classless and crass.

No more, alright?

Thank you.

Michael Kenrick     Posted 05/01/2011 at

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Reader Comments

Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer

Andy Peers
1   Posted 05/01/2011 at 05:56:23

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I agree.
Joey Brown
2   Posted 05/01/2011 at 06:08:31

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Ha F off Mike... only kidding. Good point... I'm using the game to start my hoping to be more positive swing again as well. Let's hope the players help me with this!
Andy McNabb
3   Posted 05/01/2011 at 06:42:19

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Well said, Michael. As you pointed out - the anonymity of the internet can make us all a little 'brave' at times.
This sort of ruling will only add to the quality of the site.
Alan Clarke
4   Posted 05/01/2011 at 07:39:06

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I'm guilty of it. I apologise. I don't think it's keyboard bravery, it's just sheer frustration. This forum is a good place to vent sometimes, especially this season. Perhaps we'd be more likely to protest at the game if we hadn't taken some of our anger out through our computers.

Would Kenwright and Moyes please go away.
Richard Dodd
5   Posted 05/01/2011 at 07:52:23

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Would Kenwright and Moyes please stay-and finish the jobs they have undertaken so well over the last near decade!
Michael Brien
6   Posted 05/01/2011 at 07:49:46

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Michael - I totally agree with your points and apologise if any comments I have made have offended, whether expletives where involved or not. I think that your comments re the Manager and the Chairman - about whom there are many strong views are very commendable. ToffeeWeb provides a very intersting forum for Evertonians, wherever we are and should be used constructively.

Personally as I live near Lincoln, it's good to read some news and "banter" about the Blues as in the national media the "usual suspects" appear to attract the attention. It's also good to read some of the replies/posts/articles from Evertonians across the World which reminds us that however badly we may be doing Everton means a great deal to many people all over the World.

Well said Michael and well done in reminding us of the true purpose of ToffeeWeb. I shall draw to a close before I get too emotional!! And after waking up to the sad news about Gerry Rafferty (ask your Mum and Dad if you don't know of him) I am emotional enough this morning.

Gavin Ramejkis
7   Posted 05/01/2011 at 08:32:15

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I'd happily tell both Moyes and Kenwright what I think to their faces, my money, my decision to respond to my feeling of being ripped off as a customer. Industrial language aside, I stand by BK needing to leave, relinquish his failing role and DM to change his tune which I don't think he can after 9 years of the same or he can leave too. Both in the interests of the club as temporary custodians before they tarnish it even more than they have done during their tenure.
Jonathan Tasker
8   Posted 05/01/2011 at 08:44:45

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Agreed. However, this remains, by far , the best place to criticise and comment on what is going on at our favourite footy team.

What's especially depressing is that it was apparent within 2 matches this season that our fundamental problem is our inability to score goals- and the lack of any kind of action to redress this problem.

In Cahill's enforced absence, I would go with Beckford, best we have got, at least he is mobile and he does try, and Anichebe, who at least is rough and tough and wants to prove the doubters wrong. I am not too worried about tonight as our better performances have come against the better teams.

Good luck Everton. I'm going for a 3-2 win for Everton.
Tony J Williams
9   Posted 05/01/2011 at 08:58:25

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Eff Off Doddy........
Mark Murphy
10   Posted 05/01/2011 at 09:02:49

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Richard Dodd,
please nnnnggghhh, nnnggghhhhhh......
s'not easy Michael but I agree!

IF we win tonight I'll probably be one of those looking at things completely differently tomorrow but I'm beginning to think the malaise runs much deeper now than a simple lack of funds or tactical nouse and it really should take more than the odd good win to satisfy a good Evertonian.
John Otway
11   Posted 05/01/2011 at 09:06:10

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Gavin. What is utterly unacceptable is referring to our Club manager as "Gollum" as you did in an earlier submission. That is a derogatory term that I've only ever heard from the redshite.
Phil Bellis
12   Posted 05/01/2011 at 09:12:03

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"Would Kenwright and Moyes please stay-and finish the jobs they have undertaken so well over the last near decade!"

Richard ? in Doddyworld, what do you see as the ultimate goal and end product of your heroes "finishing the job"? How will we know?

Sam Morrison
13   Posted 05/01/2011 at 09:29:10

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Good call Michael.
Charles King
14   Posted 05/01/2011 at 09:17:48

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Who's Gollom?

Is he big?

If he's small and wimpy I'll tell him to his face #### off
Nick Entwistle
15   Posted 05/01/2011 at 09:23:17

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I had once reported a post for containing the C word and was edited by TW who replied to my email saying they agreed.

Not too long after the F which until then was used the more flamboyant postings became more accepted and the language was excused by TW as how true supporters wish to communicate their viewpoints.

Now, the whole sight has become a more industrial in its language. View points have become reactions and banter is of the aggressive kind you can find on your average YouTube message board.

Its about time people watched their language, though you cant help but feel the lowering of standards in acceptable language go hand in hand with the decline on the pitch.
Adam Fenlon
16   Posted 05/01/2011 at 09:40:08

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Hear, hear!
Dick Fearon
17   Posted 05/01/2011 at 09:30:20

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Cheers Michael,
James Byrne
18   Posted 05/01/2011 at 09:39:30

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MK, well said.

This is a very valuable website that is used by thousands of Evertonians daily, including myself. But let's not forget about the very many Non-Evertonians who use this site in envy.

It's all about first impressions and I'm sure we can express ourselves a bit better; particularly during frustrating times like this.
Dick Fearon
19   Posted 05/01/2011 at 09:45:18

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By the way, who is that lad pictured in the banner head of this page?
Dick Fearon
20   Posted 05/01/2011 at 09:46:47

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Bloody hell, that picture has changed three times as we speak.
Gavin Ramejkis
21   Posted 05/01/2011 at 10:00:43

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John #11 its been done to death on lots of websites, if that is all you have to offer, take a breath, count to ten and try again, only this time harder. Even one of the most brown-nosed of Everton sites did it

Grow up
Alan Clarke
22   Posted 05/01/2011 at 10:23:53

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Nick (#15) I actually blame society. It's just not on people swearing, it's everywhere now - films, comedian stand up shows, football games, pop songs. Even Radio 4 have started using the C word. And don't get me started on Rhianna's X-Factor appearance. I fear for the future generations, I really do!
John Otway
23   Posted 05/01/2011 at 10:28:16

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Gavin. the only person who needs to grow up is the one using infantile insults.
Kevin Elliott
24   Posted 05/01/2011 at 09:47:41

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Michael, well said. I have been guilty of using expletives on this site, though purely out of frustration and aoologise to anyone who may have been offended.

Doddy, you say that BK & DM should stay and finish the job that they started. Was it a 10-year plan to get us relegated? If so, then their timing is impeccable.

Gavin Ramejkis
25   Posted 05/01/2011 at 10:38:16

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John so you calling BK the Fat Controller wasn't the same? Do you really want me to send you the link to that hypocrite???
Michael Evans
26   Posted 05/01/2011 at 10:32:11

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Well said Mk - totally agree

Wouldn't it be great if all the debates on TW didn't follow the pattern of expression of particular view,opposing view and then ultimately personal abuse,name calling etc

Put another way I totally disagree with much of what Richard Dodd comments on.

However, I admire Richard for the fact that he continually expresses what he feels to be right often in the face of derision/personal abuse etc from fellow Evertonians.

However, despite this he never resorts to "giving some back". That for me shows dignity and class.

Now that I've paid you a compliment Richard I just want to reiterate ... sorry mate I can't agree with your views on DM and BK !

Andrew Ellams
27   Posted 05/01/2011 at 11:08:14

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Can we also remember folks that it's not just us bitter and twisted 30 & 40 somethings that read this site, there are kids too.
John Otway
28   Posted 05/01/2011 at 11:12:31

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Gavin. Kenwright is overweight and in charge ergo Fat Controller. Moyes is not Gollum. Gollum is a term of abuse primarily used by redshite supporters. I'm closing this fascinating exchange of views as frankly you're boring the arse off me.
Gavin Ramejkis
29   Posted 05/01/2011 at 11:19:02

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John you are backing off as you are a hypocrite, and added your new found medical wisdom on your diagnosis of BK's weight. I've shown that at least one other Everton website used the same name, maybe you should send them a message too advising they must be a RS website.

You are bored as you've lost your petty argument.
Alan Clarke
30   Posted 05/01/2011 at 11:26:33

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From the looks of it Andrew, it's mainly Daily Mail readers and Mary Whitehouse's offspring who read this site.
John Otway
31   Posted 05/01/2011 at 11:32:24

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Gavin. The fact that Blue Kipper uses the same terminolgy makes not a jot of difference to my objection to you using an infantile insult when referring to our club manager. You need to learn to frame an argument without resorting to personal abuse.
Ian Smitham
32   Posted 05/01/2011 at 11:28:51

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Michael, we have exchanged on this subject over the past few weeks.

I wholeheartedly agree with you and this stance. It was only when i read Lyndons response to a comment re his exceptional piece did i realise just how much you guys must put in to the site. I for one have lost track of the hard work and commitment you make.

Thanks to you all for maintaining the site and long may it continue.


Ged Simpson
33   Posted 05/01/2011 at 11:54:53

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Even this simple request has caused an argument...which is really funny to read now that curses are banned !
Mike Hughes
34   Posted 05/01/2011 at 11:46:53

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John / Gavin - to quote Harry Hill, there's only one way to settle this -FIGHT!
Dave Lynch
35   Posted 05/01/2011 at 12:00:07

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The problem is this.

Trying to express your opinion about football without using basic Anglo-Saxon is difficult.

It's an emotive subject and no other sport messes with your emotions like this great game.

It can make and break your whole week, it causes wifely (?) conflict, ie. "Why are you so upset ? It's only a game".

It brings out the best and worse emotions in supporters the world over and i defy anyone who is as besoted with the game as we are on this site, not to utter the odd curse.

I personally have a distrust of football supporters who remain calm and dignified after youv'e just been mullered. It's not what the game is about.

The game is about emotion, passion, hope and despair.

Long may it remain that way.
Sam Hoare
36   Posted 05/01/2011 at 12:34:45

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Well said Michael.

If you can't say something without resorting to profuse swearing you're probably not in the right frame of mind to be saying much at all on a public forum.
Peter Norris
37   Posted 05/01/2011 at 12:20:38

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Michael ? thanks for this and trying to add some decorum to the debates we will continue to have.

Gavin #7. If you are feeling ripped off why keep going? If your weren't receiving value in any other part of your life you would stop/change what you do?? It's your choice, mate. Sanctimonious comments like yours are getting a bit boring.
Andy Burke
38   Posted 05/01/2011 at 11:41:25

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Fair Point Michael and i must admit I have used that term myself.

I think the problem is that, on Toffeeweb, people sometimes revert to language and responses that they would use down the pub with my mates - at least that is what happens with me.

When the particular term in question is used in the right situation, I personally don't believe it is in any way 'classless and crass' however, when used in the way you describe, I have to agree that it comes across as just that.

Personally, I did only use the term on the live match forum so I don't feel guilty aboutbut point taken and I for one will not be using it again.

Damien Kennedy
39   Posted 05/01/2011 at 12:56:36

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I was reading an article yesterday where someone said that the odds on DM remaining as manager of Everton had been slashed following certain startling information coming to light !!! Does anyone know what this startling information was ???
Denis Richardson
40   Posted 05/01/2011 at 12:52:27

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Apologies, have been guilty a couple of times myself.

Hoping for a good result this evening but not holding my breath re the team selection.

Re the manager, as mentioned numerous times above, either he changes his ways (unlikely) or he can to the honorable thing and step down and let someone else take our club forward.

Thanks for the memories My Moyes but its time for a change if you cannot change the old and very tired tactics.
Alan Clarke
41   Posted 05/01/2011 at 13:22:25

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Damien (#36) there was a rumour he'd walk after the Stoke game, then there was a rumour he'd walk after the Tottenham game if we lost. I had to check myself not to get into a Marsh mindset of actually hoping we'd lose (I would never be able to do that).

Hence now why Moyes was aksed the question at his latest press conference about whether he'd leave Everton. Disappointingly he's said he won't so we're stuck with Gollum (tongue planted in cheek).
Jonathan Tasker
42   Posted 05/01/2011 at 13:34:48

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Toffeeweb turns into a Man. City training session as posters have to be held apart.

Am fascinated to see who he will play tonight.
David Thomas
43   Posted 05/01/2011 at 13:32:37

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Well said Michael,

It always makes me laugh reading certain posts from people who continually post about members of the club and what they would say and do to them etc etc. It always makes me laugh because I can guarantee that 99.99999% of them would not say a word if they came across these people in the street etc. It's all keyboard bravery.
Ste Traverse
44   Posted 05/01/2011 at 13:38:09

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I'd have no problem telling that disgrace of a chairman to his face to F off for the way he's "run" this club over the years.............but there's not much chance of that right as Mr Ego has done his usual trick of going into hiding when the goings gets tough,
David Thomas
45   Posted 05/01/2011 at 13:48:02

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Gone into hiding. You could tell him at every single home game that we have and most away games. Go to the park end car park and you will more than likely see him arriving at the ground and leaving if you really want to.
Jim Hourigan
46   Posted 05/01/2011 at 13:43:47

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Doddy, I wonder what exactly is the job these two are being asked to finish? Is it making us a winning team with a trophy? Is it producing a stadium fit for the 21st Century? Is it providing attacking entertaining winning football? Is it making us financially sound? Or is it confirming as you put it in another post confirming our mid table mediocrity and possibly getting us relegated?

I do at times wonder why you engage in this site as you appear unable/unwilling to countenance anything other than the official line - me thinks you may be a plant (and that's not the garden variety - although a stinking helebora (sp?) springs to mind). Otherwise I think you should get back to the Chamberlain book on appeasement and we can all wait again for more words of wisdom and utter garbage from you.
Guy Wilkinson
47   Posted 05/01/2011 at 13:54:33

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Good call MK.

Despite being a proponent for regime change, I feel disquiet reading the aggression in some of the (mostly) anti DM-BK posts against other blue fans.

Things rapidly descend into condescension and personal attack and it diminishes a great site.
Eric Myles
48   Posted 05/01/2011 at 13:26:06

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John & Gavin, BK is not referred to as "The Fat Controller" because of his size but because it's often said he won't give up his train set. The Fat Controller is the person in charge of controlling the trains in Thomas The Tank Engine.

So The Fat Controller could be anyone in charge of the train set.

Mike Rourke
49   Posted 05/01/2011 at 14:55:54

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I thought 'Rafa' was the Fat Controller ( in addition to all his table waiting duties ).

Man, I'm confused?
Gavin Ramejkis
50   Posted 05/01/2011 at 15:08:10

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Eric I know that, I've used it myself I was pointing out a hypocrite who came back with some utter nonsense about weight. Christ the PC brigade have taken over Thomas the Tank Engine and he's called Topham Hat now so as not to offend.

I stand by my lines as I'm no hypocrite. Like the other day match thread I was calling for Yak, saw my backside over that one (Mike Gwyer) but admitted it, pity others can't.
Gavin Ramejkis
51   Posted 05/01/2011 at 15:12:31

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Mike, Beneath Contemptus was and always will be the FSW - Fat Spanish Waiter.
Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
52   Posted 05/01/2011 at 14:50:35

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Let me clarify: I'm not imposing a ban on industrial language. Only on a specific usage which, in my opinion, lacks class ? I repeat, there is to my mind no excuse for using the web to tell the Chairman, Manager, or any player to "fuck off".

As far as industrial language is concerned, Dave Lynch (#35) sums it up perfectly. I'm no Mary Whitehouse: those Anglo-Saxon words are part of an extremely rich language; they definitely exist and have their place in our culture (whatever any puritanical prudes may think) and are not going to disappear. In fact, nothing irritates me more than people and now the media using f*cking asterisks or phrases like "the C-word" in some pathetic pretense to supposedly hide the fact they have used an 'expletive' ? even a kid knows exactly what fucking word you mean!

As to us fans swearing at each other on this forum, it may be abusive... it may not, depending on the context and circumstances. I'm not making any hard and fast call on that: if you want to do it, it's up to you. If you think it's abuse, please draw it to our attention by clicking the Report Abuse tab.

As for the parental challenge of protecting your dear little ones from the harsh realities of the world, if you think you can stop them from hearing or reading bad words... good luck with that. My parenting advice (should you wish to accept it!!!) would be to acknowledge and explain the history of the words and concentrate on the circumstances where you think they should or should not be used... and that's the difficulty ? everyone has differing boundaries.

For those of you who don't like to see any swearing or naughty words at all, I apologise in advance that your sensitivities are not going to be pandered to here through censorship.

Nicknames (Gollum, Fat Controller, Ginger Tosser, Billy Liar) ... these are harder to make any rules about. Eric (#48) provides an excellent explanation for the Fat Controller... Gavin less so, perhaps, for the Gollum label, but there is no escaping the likeness!

John Otaway (#11) raises an interesting side note: should we cleanse ourselves of a name or phrase because it's what the kopite twats use?

My opinion on that is direct from our adopted song: "We don't care what the redshite say" ? I would never allow any aspect of my life to be controlled by some consideration of theirs, good, bad or indifferent. I utterly despise kopites and everything they stand for. So I'm afraid you lose that one on principle, John.

Thanks for ... er... most of your comments.
Brian Waring
53   Posted 05/01/2011 at 15:32:44

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So is still okay to tell Doddy to f**k off???????
Gavin Ramejkis
54   Posted 05/01/2011 at 15:36:57

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Be careful what you call him Brian unless someone thinks its what the RS say, for all the challenges between us, I've even offered him a pint should we ever meet at the game but I think his family circumstances have lessened his opportunities to escape from Doddy Towers in Formby.
Liu Weixian
55   Posted 05/01/2011 at 15:23:36

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Like Gavin and Ste, I'd happily tell Kenwright and Moyes to their faces what I think of their incompetence. Sadly, I don't live in Liverpool so some of you guys here will just have to do it if you feel motivated enough.

I don't agree with Michael that people who use vulgarities on this site do not have intelligent things to say. Just because people use a few choice words does not mean that they are stupid. In fact, 'fuck off' is quite mild compared to the stuff I can say in my native dialects about our useless chairman and his uninspiring manager.. Take a chill pill, mate!
Nick Entwistle
56   Posted 05/01/2011 at 16:15:34

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A choice bit of language used in the right place can elevate any text, but flippantly thrown into the ToffeeWeb world brings down the standards. I don't know why someone has bothered to take me up on my preference to say C-word instead of cunt, it's no biggy either way but with slacking standards you're close to the broken window theory which in turn has brought on this article.
Matthew Lovekin
57   Posted 05/01/2011 at 16:15:30

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Michael: Apologies for using that term recently. It's the first and only time I have used it in a post or response and extremely unlike me. It's not either clever or productive and I apologise again.

However, in my defence it is out of sheer frustation after what we are witnessing this season. Evertonians have seen some crap through the years under Walker, Smith and more, but at least we have felt we still have something to shout for. A winger that can beat a man or Big Dunc getting his head onto a corner, but this year, nothing, zilch.

There are no wingers in our entire squad, we don't have any target men to rough up a few defenders, there is just nothing to get excited about. At least Moyes should be trying something different to try and freshen things up, but it's the same tactics, same formation, same players and therefore same results. What's wrong with 4-3-3 and chucking a couple of enthusiastic youngsters into the team?

Anyway, rant over, thanks for listening!
Christopher McCullough
58   Posted 05/01/2011 at 17:27:11

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I've imagined the scenario and examined my conscience. I would tell Bill Kenwright to "fuck off" to his face.

I am, indeed, classless; yet I have a first class honours degree to back me for the rest of my life.

I'm not mortified by the honest articulation of my opinion. I'm not a hypocrite or anonymous, either.
David Gallant
59   Posted 05/01/2011 at 11:13:27

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Tony Marsh is going to hate this :)
Jon Cox
60   Posted 05/01/2011 at 19:15:19

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Michael, is it alright if we say "Feck" because Father Ted and Father Jack (DRINK) seemed to get away with it on prime time telly?
Alan Clarke
61   Posted 05/01/2011 at 19:16:59

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There are some real prudes on here. I think we know who the real match goers are now because you can't possibly go to Goodison if you are offended by naughty swear words. I learnt most of these naughty words as a youngster inside Goodison. Perhaps a family stand forum needs to be set up for some of these people.

Thanks for clarifying Michael as I think an occasional well placed fuck now and again can really drive the point home.
Tony McNulty
62   Posted 05/01/2011 at 22:33:47

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For some people a fuck is driving the point home.
David Moorcroft
63   Posted 06/01/2011 at 01:41:50

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I also have used that word quite a lot. And if I hurt anyone at all. Please, I didnt mean it. But I would like to bring a couple of points up in mitigation. The OWNER and MANAGER are CRAP.

Made up with the result tonight.

David Moorcroft
64   Posted 06/01/2011 at 02:52:25

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Thank you, Michael, I think it was me you were talking about with that horrible word. And I agree. But haven't you got more important things to highlight than the F-word? Mainly EFC and the way it is being totally ripped to fucking shredds in front of our FUCKING eyes???

And yes I am 54 years old but I have watched my team since I was 10. So I think I should be allowed to express myself. But I will say it again: Please stop destroying our club.

Neil Humphrey
65   Posted 06/01/2011 at 07:22:45

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This is some fucked up bullshit. What kind of a cocksucker thinks he can tell us what kind of fucking language we should use? What a cunt. I've never heard such fucking bollocks.
Mike Oates
66   Posted 06/01/2011 at 14:31:44

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About time to ? after reading and contributing articles to the site for the last 4 years I was growing weary of the constant abuse thrown at the club. We all hate loosing, all hate the poverty, all hate the ineptitude, all hate Moyes's intransigence at times but but just reverting to f... o.. as an answer is ridiculous.
Matthew Mackey
67   Posted 07/01/2011 at 10:07:26

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I would like to thank Michael and any others who have made this "independent" website what it is. I love it and if I didn't have access to it then (1) my Everton frustrations would have to be taken out on the nearest cat and (2) i'd actually have to do more work!

I was guilty on one occasion of overstepping the mark - verbal abuse aimed at Distin after the Newcastle or Manure game earlier this season. I got my knuckles wrapped by Micheal or someone from the website and spent the next few days (and contributions) in the sin bin - and rightly so! I was full of remorse so I also went to confession, said three hail Marys and Our Father and vowed never to call Liverpool the Red Shite again. Shit - i've just called them Red Shite again. Aaaaarrrrgggg - I can't help myself ! Oh well, if there's a God, i'm sure he won't mind me calling them that.

I'm now going to go forth and multipy as I better get on with some work, keepin the country goin and keepin my Villa boss happy. He's a knob - Aaaaaaaarrrrg - i've done it again. I can't help myself!

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