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Expectations

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I've been an Evertonian for all my life ? 61years ? and I'm fed up with low expectations of our supporters.

I don't want a top four finish or a good cup run, I want to win every competition we enter and anything less is a disappointment to me. This year again, I've put my money where my mouth is and bet at 250-1 to win league.

It doesn't matter who managers or plays for my club as long as we get success. Millionaires, prima donnas, egotistical players, media luvies... I don't care ? just go and get me trophies. As long as you wear the blue of Everton, succeed!!!
Tony  Cornmell, Perth, Western Australia     Posted 08/07/2010 at 14:00:41

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Peter Bourke
1   Posted 09/07/2010 at 06:35:07

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Well said Tony.

At a recent Q & A session in Sydney, David Moyes made it clear that he is going out to WIN the Premier League this year, even though he admitted he is aiming high, it is where he and team are aiming.

He also stressed how desperate he is to bring Silverware to the Club and he believes unless he does bring Silverware he will not feel he has been a success. They are a very, very determined squad this year.

Andy Griff
2   Posted 09/07/2010 at 06:44:26

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It's a measure of the progress that we've made that Moyes can now say that and not sound utterly ridiculous. I know that shower across the park are a little nervous about us.
Michael Kenrick
3   Posted 09/07/2010 at 06:54:19

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Well, that is indeed good to hear Peter. The self-belief that has been lacking is now hopefully in place. Now, the challenge is laid down to Evertonians everywhere... who need to believe as one (ha!) that we can do it this season. Still plenty who need to jump on board, I suspect.
Michael Brien
4   Posted 09/07/2010 at 07:16:29

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As someone once said - " If you aim to challenge for the title even if you just fall short you will not be far off.....but if you aim for mid table if you just fall short of that you will be in relegation trouble". After qualifying for European competition in previous seasons, it was very disappointing to just miss out. In particular our form in the second half of the season shows that we can compete with the so called Sky 4 or 5 whatever it is !!!
I was especially disappointed at going out of the Cup to Birmingham. In the match itself I thought we derserved a draw - but when I watched Portsmouth v Birmingham ( in the 6th Round I think it was) I couldn't believe how tamely Birmingham lost.
I think the signs are good for the coming season - although like most Evertonians optimism doesn't come easily to me. What has cheered me up is that we seem to have begun doing with our transfer activity far earlier than has been the case in recent seasons. I hope that we can continue with this as I think last season's poor start cost us a crack at 4th place. If we can bring in the additions to the squad in good time - BEFORE - the start of the season - then I think we have a great chance. We don't want to give evrybody else a head start like we did last season.
Steve Pugh
5   Posted 09/07/2010 at 07:56:06

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Shoot for the moon, if you miss at least you'll be amongst the stars.
Dermot Ryan
6   Posted 09/07/2010 at 07:51:08

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So, I'll be the first to be negative. I think we won't win the league. That is not Moyes' fault. And I hope this opinion doesn't make me a bad blue.

We're skint and there are many reasons for that (We have a relatively small global fan base; we have a stadium that makes it hard to generate revenue; we have a very poor marketing team; we have not succeeded under a dispensation that disproportionately rewards success; etc...etc). As you all know, the season is long and the league has a lot of teams vying for pole position, and I think we do not quite have the quality or depth to win.

Constantly invoking our great history and our many past achievements (and there are many) doesn't get us any nearer to having the current resources to win a very competitive league. It only raises unrealistic expectations and results in a lot of unreasonable bitterness. There are a number of teams with great histories that are not doing well at the moment.

I think getting a Champions League berth is a really difficult but not impossible goal for us this season. This will allow us retain some players and may attract other players. And it will generate revenue that we can build on. And who know we may actually have an amazing run in it.

Some other realistic goals I think we should have (unlike winning the league): Winning the FA Cup; Beating our "top four" competition (Arsenal; Chelsea; Manure; Man City); Beating the shite home and away; Defending leads; Not getting clobbered at home EVER.

Or course, I will be ABSOLUTELY THRILLED if Michael has the opportunity to quote my negativity in full and make me eat my hat in May.

COYB FTRS
Michael Brien
7   Posted 09/07/2010 at 09:01:45

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Dermot - I don't think your opinion makes you a " bad blue". The title would be very hard to win as the odds are stacked very much in favour of the mega rich clubs - I remember the times when you could realistically name about 8 teams that had a chance of winning the title. It would be great if some of these big spending clubs were forced by economic reality to have to curb their spending.
The Champions League and it's growth over the last 20 years has in my opinion been detrimental to the game. I could well imagine the scenario that if say Manchester Utd were to finish outside a qualifying place there would be some change of ruling that would allow them to enter.
The FA Cup would be great - I think we could do it - and some more wins over Chelsea, Man Utd, Arsenal and Liverpool. It would also be brilliant if Goodison could become something of a fortress. I would love it if we sent Arsenal on their way on the back of a thumping to make up for 1-6.......argh I'm becoming Keegan !!!!
Mike Allison
8   Posted 09/07/2010 at 09:33:02

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I take it you're not an astronomer then Steve...

The question of expectations is a tricky one. I'd love us to have a crack at winning the league this season, and we've got dark horse potential, but we're still, objectively, behind at least four teams, and many observers would say seven. The point of high expectations is to inspire you to do well, but I worry about how angry and frustrated people become if we don't live up to them. If we aim to win the league, have a great season, and then fall away towards the end to 4th, will that be a success or a failure? By all means have high expectations, and don't look for excuses as to why we don't live up to them, but the wailing and gnashing of teeth we get on here when we don't live up to expectations is highly dispiriting.

The other issue is cups, I'll defend Moyes to the hilt, but he should have had a much better record in cup competitions up to now, as there's no reason why you can't win six particular one-off games against any opposition.

The other key point is the word 'expectation'. I don't actually 'expect' Everton to win anything this season (and if you do having followed us for the last 23 years with one trophy, then fair play to you), but I believe we have a good chance, and I 'expect' us to get close.
David Hallwood
9   Posted 09/07/2010 at 09:32:09

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The last time I put a tenner on Everton to win the prem I got 750/1! so at 250/1, I suppose you could call that progress.
Gavin Ramejkis
10   Posted 09/07/2010 at 09:42:13

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Well said Tony, the whole point of competitive sport is to compete and try to win. We will have ups and downs but should never play showing teams too much respect as we have done in the past and make them scared to play us, the psychological war making other teams know they will be in for a game especially when they come to Goodison Park which on the right day/night can rock and as many of my friends supporting other teams have said so many times in the past scares the living daylights out of them.
Sean McNally
11   Posted 09/07/2010 at 10:28:47

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Was that in 1984 David?
Ray Said
12   Posted 09/07/2010 at 10:13:20

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To win you must attack the teams competing with you and take their place and this is Moyes main failing. He does not set his team out to attack Arsenal, Chelsea, Manchester Utd.
A couple of small example relating to the mindest at home games in particular illustrates the point.
When he first took over we had a game against Manchester Utd, they had a corner and Moyes screamed at our strikers to stay on the halfway line which limited the ability of their central defenders to come up for the corner. A simple thing like that gave a message to the crowd and to the opposition that 'when you come to our place we are ready to attack you even when you think you are attacking us'.
Another small example of those early days of Moyes period in charge is that when we got a throw in at home then the nearest player would rush over to take the throw and keep the momentum going. Again the message was that 'this is our house and we cant wait to get at you'. Now we dont keep players up when the oppostion have corners and we have to wait for Neville to supervise every poxy throw in. Little, simple things like those examples affect the players and crowds mindset.

I believe this is down to a lack of self belief in the manager so it is good to hear him being so positve, all he has to do is now convince the players!
Rob Hollis
13   Posted 09/07/2010 at 10:59:48

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Dermot

I don't think a marketing team has ever won the league.

We are in with a good chance this coming season.
Adam Carey
14   Posted 09/07/2010 at 11:26:22

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Isn't this supposed to be our year for the title? I'm sure there is some stat saying we win the league every 20 odd years..?
250-1 seems a good bet regardless. We aren't that far off the likes of the Sky 4, (or 6....).
Plus, if this world cup has taught us anything, teamwork is winning games, not just a long list of big star players.
Martin Mason
15   Posted 09/07/2010 at 11:44:50

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The worst type of expectations are unrealistic ones. They always end up in bitterness and recrimination. Everton are not a title winning side and a realistic target which doesn't damage them by overburden of expectation is top 4 and a good cup run. The days when we were automatic to do well in the cup are long gone.

We don't have the squad to do better than top 4, there are plenty of others who will have the same expectation.

There could be a couple of surprises though. I see the possible collapse of United, they are vulnerable to a bold side now as we showed at Goodison. The other possibility is Liverpool imploding with debt and an exodus of players and the continuing weakness of Arsenal when it comes to the crunch.

Come on the Blues but please don't weigh them down with unrealistic expectation. We may see Arteta and Pienaar go soon, what then?
Scott Cattaneo
16   Posted 09/07/2010 at 12:17:00

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On the subject, I was at York races a few weeks ago, and had a conversation with Alan Stubbs (weirdly last time I was there it was the same with Stevie Watson). Alan was telling me that there is a real strong belief that now is a great time to support the club and that were ready to push on. I have to agree.

We also had a chat about Jose Baxter (off subject). Alan thought he was 50/50 to make it in the first team... the problem is that the 1st team is so much harder to break into then it was say 2 years ago. Which is great really.
Tony J Williams
17   Posted 09/07/2010 at 12:18:29

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I expect to be somewhat disappointed, so it is nice when we do well.
Jon Ferguson
18   Posted 09/07/2010 at 12:29:38

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I don?t think that accepting we won?t win the league this year is negative at all. I think we can realistically win one of the domestic cups this season. I also believe with some luck we could get a Champions League place. However we will need luck, Chelsea, United, Arsenal, Totenham, Liverpool and Villa also all have good squads and are pushing for trophies as well. To win a cup we will likely have to beat at least two of these teams at some stage. All those teams are beatable but on the flipside on the day could beat us as well. I would be massively disappointed to go out to a team not mentioned above.

I think it is counterproductive to say we should be winning the league. Our undeniably prestigious history (in both terms of trophies and other achievements such as the first three tiered football stadium etc) can only take us so far. Our lack of cash for signings and wages, our current crowd capacity, our chunk of the global football market, the size of our squad being the main arguments against us ?deserving? to win the league. If we feel we deserve it, it causes frustration when these lofty aims aren?t achieved. This often manifests in fans getting on players backs and creating a negative atmosphere in the ground.

Although you could never compare Newcastle to us, their fans are an example of how to make a club self destruct. For a club who have won pretty much nothing in their history, after a few good seasons and the press praising their fans for being bare chested in the middle of winter, they felt they deserved the league and deserved it winning pretty. They undermined the manager, the chairman and the players and eventually got themselves relegated. I had no sympathy for them as they brought it on themselves. I would hate for us to self destruct in a similar way.
Tom Astley
19   Posted 09/07/2010 at 12:43:20

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Dermot,

If we do as you wanted, which was: "Beating our "top four" competition (Arsenal; Chelsea; Manure; Man City); Beating the shite home and away; Defending leads; Not getting clobbered at home EVER" ? then surely we would be up there challening for the title at the end of the season anyway!

Let's be honest, we just want some silverware. An FA Cup win would be a a great season, alongside a top 6 finish!
Gary Creaney
20   Posted 09/07/2010 at 13:09:04

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Tony,

We all want to win the league and every trophy going, hell so does every supporter of every club.

But given the way football has become it is nigh on impossible to come from nowhere and win the league - thats not admitting defeat, its just being realistic. Any of our supporters who consider 4th place a success are merely taking this viewpoint as it is seen as the first step to re-entering the big time - the publicity, the finance etc that comes from competing in the Champions league. It is the only way a club like ourselves can realistically bridge the gap created by money.

Slow but steady progress year on year is unfortunately our only option as the boom and bust years of 2004-2006 clearly indicate.
Richard Parker
21   Posted 09/07/2010 at 09:58:33

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I don't consider it negativity if I say that I certainly don't expect us to win the league. I don't expect us to be there or thereabouts in the last 6 or 7 games. I don't expect us to get in the top 4.

I DO expect us to be in the running for a top 6 spot and I HOPE we make a tilt at the top 3.

There has certainly been a levelling of the playing field at the top of the Premiership in the last 12 months.

Man City have opened things up with their oil money. Spurs have really made things interesting by beating City to the CL spot. Liverpool are also-rans, hopefully they'll soon be also-rans without their 2 or 3 best players. Man U, Arsenal and Chelsea aren't the forces they once were.

I think it's unlikely that there's going to be much investment in Everton's playing staff this summer, but IF: -
1. We keep the bunch of lads we've got and they all hit form early.
2. A couple of the frees/nominal fees turn out to be good.
3. We enjoy a relatively injury free season.
4. We continue the form that we've seen since November 2009.
5. We get a bit of luck.

Maybe we can be there or thereabouts.... it's possible, but it's a lot of ifs.
Ciarán McGlone
22   Posted 09/07/2010 at 13:26:56

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There's a difference between wanting to win the league and realising that it's rather unlikely....I'd say the bookies are spot on.
Jay Harris
23   Posted 09/07/2010 at 13:38:16

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One game at a time and lets prepare to win every one.

We need to take the Goodison roar into very game too.

I am a firm believer that the crowds feeling translates to the players so if the crowd have confidence and belief and not ooh and aah at every little misplaced pass the players confidence and ability will grow.

I do believe however that we need to keep more clean sheets this season and therefore a better centrehalf and I hope that is one of our planned signings.
Richard Parker
24   Posted 09/07/2010 at 13:40:32

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When I say there or thereabouts, I'm talking in the title race... it's possible, but not very likely.

Now it's up to the players to come out, all guns blazing in the first 4 or 5 games and give something to believe in.....
Ian Tunstead
25   Posted 09/07/2010 at 13:34:51

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Tony at 61 you should know better by now. Theres being positive and then theres being realistic. Too many people live in the past and think because we won the title 20 years ago then we should be winning it every year.

Gary (20) you have got it spot on. "Slow but steady progress year on year". That is what we have been doing under Moyes. I believe we will win the title with Moyes in charge but we are not there yet. Another couple of years of progress and others like Liverpool and Man U going backwards because of their debts and we will be in with a chance.
Rob Wilkinson
26   Posted 09/07/2010 at 14:00:47

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Why have so many people on here got to go around pissing on bonfires this post really made me smile and made me think yeah why the hell not lets think about it have hope in our heart and anything is possible. But no you couldn't do that you bitter bitter twats.
David S Shaw
27   Posted 09/07/2010 at 14:03:29

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My expectations are to be disappointed
Ciarán McGlone
28   Posted 09/07/2010 at 14:13:21

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Rob...

Do you know the meaning of the word 'bitter'?

I think this word is misused - and your opinion is very harsh.
Miles Wilson
29   Posted 09/07/2010 at 14:15:15

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Sadly, modern football has created a gulf in financial clout ? and therefore quality of squad ? in almost every major league. England, Italy, Spain you can always pick the likely winners from the same handful of candidates.

Everton will not win the league this year or in the near future. We have a very good squad (if everyone stays or is replaced adequately) and showed last year that on our day we can beat anyone. We also showed that we can lose to anyone and that a few injuries and supensions leaves us very thin with kids on the bench. For example what will happen if Baines gets injured - Neville or Distin at left back???
We do have a very good chance in a cup (especially without Europa League draining our time and resources) and might even crack 4th place. That sadly is the most we can hope for. I wish it wasn't so but it is.

Ciarán McGlone
30   Posted 09/07/2010 at 14:26:01

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I would agree with that Miles apart from one thing...We are one player/position down on the footballing highs of last season...

If we don't get that position sorted before the kick off then we could have another slow start...
Liu Weixian
31   Posted 09/07/2010 at 14:14:47

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I totally agree with Tony. Nothing but the best is good enough!

It is inexplicable that clubs like Fulham and Boro have done better than us on the European front. Even Portsmouth won the FA Cup a couple of seasons back and reached the final last season. Spurs, Villa, and West Ham found themselves in cup finals. With the talent in our squad we should have won a cup or two by now, but sadly, we have won nothing since Paul Rideout headed in the winner against ManUre.

Realistically, we haven't the money to challenge for the league title. Whenever we start stringing together results, vultures will circle over our heads and the ^#&$@ press will unsettle our players by linking them to richer clubs. Moyes have had his hands full keeping his players motivated as it is, let alone bring in any, what with the skint budget we are on. Thanks to Kenwright and his incompetent management team - I reserve my worst vitriol for our hopeless marketing team - we are bleeding money every year, and there's not a snowball's chance in Hell that any sugar daddy will be giving us a look. I fear the worst if Moyes become frustrated and decides to manage another club.

By hook or by crook we have to crack the Champions League spots this season. We need the revenue and we cannot afford to wait any longer. The boys are certainly good enough and if we attack from the start in every home game I say we have every chance of making it. I want Moyes to start with two, or even three upfront when playing against mid-table//relegation-threatened teams.

As for the cups, we ought to go at it a bit more. I'm sick of waiting for silverware and I am sure every Blue here will agree that we are long overdue for a trophy.

Dave Smith
32   Posted 09/07/2010 at 23:25:41

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"I've been an Evertonian for all my life ? 61years"

And there in lies your problem. I'm 24, and I have only seen Everton win 1 FA Cup. All this European football, finishing above Liverpool, finishing 4th, beating Man Utd and Chelsea back to back, having a player in the Word Cup Final. It's all new to me.

Everton finishing 4th will exceed my expectations. Becasue I have never seen us finnish higher, and given all the crap of the 90s, what Moyes is achieving at the moment is pure magic.

I meet other people and tell them am an Evertonian. And for once, I see genuine respect, instead of them laughing in my face. Nowadays, whenever I read the word 'Everton', it isn't automatically followed by the word 'relegation'.

Low expectations? I have never had reason to have anything other than.
James Flynn
33   Posted 10/07/2010 at 02:15:53

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Tony Cormell - "It doesn't matter who managers or plays for my club as long as we get success. Millionaires, prima donnas, egotistical players, media luvies... I don't care ? just go and get me trophies. As long as you wear the blue of Everton, succeed"!!!

Thank you, thank you, thank you!! Your post was so real and positive, this New Yorker declares you a NY Yankees fan. We New Yorkers can hear Graeme Lloyd's name and still remember:

a. A good pitcher and competitor

b. An insane fighter when a brawl broke out. Even we were shocked at how ready the Aussie was to mix it up.

I think Moyes has stacked the team to match-up with any in the EPL. A terrific combination of experience and youth; all of it talented. We have every good reason for our optimism to be "realistic".

Once the season starts, it's all about eating hats and flying pigs.

COYB

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