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Short-sighted retail expansion?

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I remember someone on this site saying that the reconstruction of the Park End stand was short sighted as it was an under-development of the only free space around Goodison Park.

Now I've lived in Oz for near 30 years and not been to Goodison for 17 years so perhaps someone can help me understand the proposed new development.

Am I right in saying that this proposed development will take up the best area for any initial stage of an expansion of Goodison.

Now some will say that expanding Goodison will never happen (and this proposal seems to confirm that), but just in case, shouldn't any development on this land incorporate some kind of expansion and moving back of the Park End stand?

As I said, I'm a long way away, and the comments on the OS seem mostly positive, so am I wong?
Keith Edmunds, Melbourne     Posted 05/08/2010 at 10:10:51

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Rob Wilkinson
1   Posted 05/08/2010 at 14:18:44

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I'm sorry. I am happy that this Ecclestone bloke seems to have a vision for making Everton great again, but this is ludicrous.

Moyes currently has no money for transfers and yet this regeneration is going ahead. This is pure short sighted-ness please Bobby have a think about Everton's future again what will make us more money in the long run

1) Shirt sales of an American hero, extra fans making trips across the continent and possible extra TV revenue from fans wanting to watch more Everton matches on ESPN. or

2) a posh cafe for Ecclestone 2 keep his paperwork?

Ed Staunton
2   Posted 05/08/2010 at 14:19:54

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Some have expressed an opinion on the retail development of the Park End, thinking this will mean we are staying at Goodison & therefore will redevelop it. To me it seems that this could mean that the Park End stand will not be redeveloped, as why put a structure where you would want to expand! If that means there will be no redevelopment at Goodison as the Park End was always the pivotal part of the proposed scheme, only time will tell.
Chris Wright
3   Posted 05/08/2010 at 14:20:21

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Interested to see the new plans for the Park End last night. At least it could be a step in the right direction and if successful start the process of totally refurbing Goodison. I'm not 100% sure it'll increase the capacity of Goodison much, but, it should increase Corporate revenue which is important. I honestly believe we should have been doing this type of planning and work 10 or 15 years ago.
Paul Smiith
4   Posted 05/08/2010 at 15:24:48

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Has anyone actually read the article?? Two really big things stand out to me here:

1) This is not being financed by EFC but through two partnerships so to suggest it is taking money away from Moyes is plain wrong.

2) It is stated that by moving the office operations and other bits and pieces from the main stand it will allow space for development of the ground.

Now while this obviously means that no massive ground development is taking place, they seem to be moving in the right direction. Not forgetting the room behind the Park End is quite large so there should be pleanty of room to expand the Park End if required.
Kevin Wynn
5   Posted 05/08/2010 at 15:35:04

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I seem to remember Wyness had a similar plan when he first arrived and if it is the same it would leave room for the Park end to be redeveloped.
I saw the plans in my office and it made sense then as it does now.
Duncan McDine
6   Posted 05/08/2010 at 15:37:21

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No one has mentioned the museum, which sounds like a brilliant idea (I assume the France collection will be showcased here? If so, I'd love to pay a visit.

For me, there's no lines to read between... its a £9m project funded by Kitbag and the catering partners, and Everton will make profit from it!!! Genius, if only for the short term.

The board have clearly stated that we'll still be moving somewhere else in the mid-long term.
Rob Wilkinson
7   Posted 05/08/2010 at 16:11:53

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Yeah it is being paid for by Kitbag and another partner, but...

Dear KitBag,
thank you for the offer of a brand new building behind the parkend and I really believe it will make us both more money from the extra retail space.

However would you consider spending the money on Landon Donovan who would generate @ least £25million for us 2 share from shirt sales (This figure is based on Ronaldo making over £100million in a year 4 Real)

Have a think and get back 2 me,

Bobby Ecclestone. x
Robert Johnson
8   Posted 05/08/2010 at 16:46:46

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Rob W - sorry mate but this is just spurious nonsense.

How many Americans do you think are going to buy a football shirt, Landon Donovan branded or not? Football is still very much a minority interest in the States - played a lot in schools admittedly - but you'd struggle to find anyone who owns or would bother buying a football shirt, and one player joining Everton is hardly likely to change that. This idea that Donovan is some kind of superstar in the states is some way off the truth - he's certainly better known than any other US football player, but that's not saying much.

I'm not saying I wouldn't like to see Donovan joining permanently, but assuming that he'd bring in big money on shirt sales on the basis that one of the best 2 or 3 players in the world, playing for one of the 2 or 3 most popularly supported clubs in the world, is laughable.
On the other hand, moves like this to squeeze more income out of the facilities available to us, which hopefully should help boost our spending power to get players like Donovan in future, should be welcome.
Andrew Mackenzie
9   Posted 05/08/2010 at 17:03:05

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Even by TW standards I am surprised at the negative reaction of this. Any development that allows further development of GP should surely be welcomed. As I live away I can only get to a game around 5, possibly 10 games a year. I generally bring friends or clients and look for fixtures for the teams they support. The trouble in getting hospitality at GP is a problem. I would go further and would support the idea of a hotel in any ground development, but this will do for now. At least it's not Kirkby! Appreciate not all fans will use this development, but some will, we're a mixed bag! Appreciate the comments re impact on playing staff but they have made it clear this will not affect this, and this is the reality of a commercial organisation. The more worrying thing for me is the clear lack of money available despite SKY income and improved revenue streams. I can only hope they are putting money aside or clearing debt. Otherwise looking forward to getting back to Goodison on the 21st. COYB!
Dan Brierley
10   Posted 05/08/2010 at 17:05:24

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Ronaldo made 100 million in shirt sales? 25 million for Donovan's shirt sales? Thats got to be the most ludicrous thing I have ever read on this site, which is a statement in itself!

Going back to the topic, I think it shows some excellent vision. No cost to the club, and we free up some space inside GP by transferring things out to this building. And creates a new much needed revenue stream for the club. My only gripe is that it will obscure the ground. I love that feeling of seeing the ground as you come round the corner.
Alan Chadwick
11   Posted 05/08/2010 at 17:17:00

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Take a close peek at the 'mock-up' picture on the official website....

...Anyone notice the Dixie Dean statue?

Thought not.

Agreed it will - I hope - be irelocated n a tidier place inside (entrance to the museum?)

I'm sure this has been totally thought through in a risk assessment (perhaps there is a gentleman's agreement with the potential developement company).
Rupert Coghlan
12   Posted 05/08/2010 at 17:13:54

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I'd just like to say, that if Goodison was to be redeveloped properly, we'd need a lot more land than this pretty small area behind the Park End!

Bullens, Gwladys and the Main Stand would all need to be completely rebuilt, and in modern builds, would not fit in the current 'footprint', especially if we want to boost capacity.

There's a lot more land (currently houses, schools, Walton Motors) etc that needs to be acquired, if this is to be the future route.
Richard Dodd
13   Posted 05/08/2010 at 17:52:14

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Why not give ALL the money to Davey-after all, he`s desperate for another right-back and we couldn`t possibly win a match without Landon bloody Donovan who is becoming the bore subject of the year!
Paul Gladwell
14   Posted 05/08/2010 at 18:46:56

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Rupert, Aston Villa redeveloped there ground in a similar footprint to ours and was in a far worse state than ours.
It`s been stated on this site enough times by Mr Skempton and Hughes how this can be done.
Goodison can be slowly redeveloped and it looks like this is the first step.The sale of Bellfield could help start a new tier on The Park End which could keep our attendance at a good capacity during further re-work.
This slow development should have started years ago instead of us wasting money and time on cuckoo land adventures.
Jon Cox
15   Posted 05/08/2010 at 18:45:17

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RD agreed. Give the money to Moyes. You can build towers to Babel all day long but unless you have the players first to win things then it's all a load of rubbish.

Lets get winning things first and then worry about where we are going to live and what our house looks like and how many bedrooms we have.
Gerry Quinn
16   Posted 05/08/2010 at 20:56:56

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Rob # 8 - beg to differ, but in my office in Houston, I have managed to get 3 of my Amercan counterparts buying the Everton shirt with the name of Donovan on the back! Two of those guys were not really that interested in "soccer" but now follow the blues, albeit not as fanatical as me!!!!! What I have experienced in the office is just a minute part of the interest.

I noticed last week when one Astros baseball player was recently transferred up north after 16 years with the club, a huge amount of fans wished him well and said they would follow his progress and his team too. The support for players here is weird, but loyalty to one player appears to be the norm ? and the high-profile Donovan would be more than an ideal candidate to create more US Everton fans ? he has the following to sell loads more shirts.

David Thomas
17   Posted 05/08/2010 at 21:49:42

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Why are people saying give the money to David Moyes, have you not read the article explaining how this scheme is getting funded?
Chad Schofield
18   Posted 05/08/2010 at 21:40:35

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Well I think it's great that the club are running with it. The fact that it is not costing the club anything makes it a no brainer. If people are saying that it could potentially affect a possible expansion, whilst a tiny bit worrying, unfortunately we simply do not have the money to expand the site rapidly... until there is money to invest it will have to be little bits enabled by others.

Alongside Everton Two, I think this shows vision and shows that Elstone is doing what he's paid for, and doing it well.
Tony Dove
19   Posted 05/08/2010 at 22:05:34

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This development looks as cheapskate as the Kirkby scheme.Also if it hinders any future expansion of the Park End I officially give up.
Jimmy Hacking
20   Posted 05/08/2010 at 22:39:47

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Tony Dove - "I officially give up" sorry i'm not being sarky that well made me crack up. I might join you though.
Tony I'Anson
21   Posted 05/08/2010 at 22:31:02

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In a precarious uncertain economic world, I would look upon this announcement as a very shreud move.

Before you know it, Robert Elstone's name will be quietly placed above the entrance to the Wilmsow; the Council will give us the school based on being beyond economic repair; the garage owner will go into liquidation as the local economy is flooded with Chinese people carriers; and everyone who live in Gwladys Street will die off leaving their homes in trust to David France.

Looking forward to this season and plenty of currys, pizzas, steak pie & chips, Thai take aways, fried mars bars, veggie pakoras. And as I'm on a diet I think I'll lay off the chinese this season.

And if you don't think there is a social revolution taking place, then think again -
Tony I'Anson
22   Posted 06/08/2010 at 00:01:03

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Just added this on the official site re their announcement:

Please put sufficient concrete in the foundations to support a 20 floor hotel on top of this, even if we do (or do not) move to another location.
Derek Thomas
23   Posted 05/08/2010 at 23:55:44

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The old saying still applies... Do it right, do it once, buy cheap, buy twice.

' Don't do anything that is cut price, you know what that will make you be. ' Ian Drury, ( Sex and drugs and rock and roll.)

Now if and when this is built, which one do you think will apply??
Keith Edmunds
24   Posted 06/08/2010 at 01:55:32

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There's an interesting interview with KEIOC on which echo's my concerns.
Eric Myles
25   Posted 06/08/2010 at 02:39:10

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"It's not costing the Club anything"
"It will provide extra profit for the Club"
Sorry but I don't see that from what has been reported.
Our catering and merchandising partners are paying for the development BUT with money from future revenues that will become due to the Club.
So the Club are effectively paying for this development and won't see any profit until the costs of development and financing have been paid in full.
It's the same as borrowing money against future ticket sales.
Eric Myles
26   Posted 06/08/2010 at 03:26:27

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I can finish now the boss has gone back to his office.
So a guaranteed revenue stream is actually being taken away from us while the development is paid for, which will be how many years?
The only chance of extra revenue is that the 'expansion' that the relocation of these facilities allows brings in more revenue than is 'lost' by the financing. But then the 'expansion' will also need to be financed.
I reckon the financing repayments will take at least 5 years so don't be expecting any extra millions to buy players suddenly falling into our lap,
Matt Traynor
27   Posted 06/08/2010 at 03:31:11

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To those who say this is not being financed by Everton and therefore has no impact on the transfer budget (hah!) - whilst it's not directly, it is an extension of the contracts with Kitbag and Sodhexo - contracts designed to increase revenue to the club to improve the balance sheet, which in the overall scheme of things, will largely determine the transfer and wage budget. Etc.

That said, it is likely to be a medium term investment as any new ground will take around 8 years to come to fruition (NB - not including screw ups), and so ought to pay back in spades. I would assume this means the lease can be given up or sold on, on Everton 1 over the road.
Afzan Yusuf
28   Posted 06/08/2010 at 08:23:22

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Dear Rob Wilkinson #7,

Thanks for the praise. Yes.. We at KB believe both of us will make lots of money out of this deal... especially the museum... hmmm..

Anyway, regarding LD.. Yes... EFC management team and us did agree about us funding the LD transfer fee... but as you already accustomed too... this is only VERBALLY agreed... and trust us Rob.. if the deal won't get through.... than we would rather not living in this world!!

Nil Satis Nisi Optimum Rob...
Rob Wilkinson
29   Posted 06/08/2010 at 08:36:17

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Robert Johnson #8 - Ah yeah mate I now see the error of my ways, I'll just give the majority of prem clubs a shout: "They're not interested lads come back!" Grow up as you stated soccer is the main sport played by kids, meaning there are millions of people over there with an affinity for the sport. Americans r generally not bothered it seems with the MLS because of the poor standard however when the standard is raised ie the world cup the have the highest amount of fans other than S.Africa who are already there so yeah your right they're not bothered! They also like to see their own doing well so my £25million estimate is only around 500,000 shirts sold over the period that Landon would be here not unobtainable!
Tony Dove
30   Posted 06/08/2010 at 09:20:47

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Jimmy Hacking-its nice to have company.Apart from the Park End issue The club would not recover anywhere near the £9 million cost on any future sale of Goodison for redevelopment.
Kevin Wynn
31   Posted 06/08/2010 at 12:20:39

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re chad (18)
I am not so impressed with elstone so far. He has not done anything that Wyness was not already working on. Wyness did the Kitbag deal and had these plans for this development prepared before as well. I would like to see him do something that he has developed himself. No matter what you thought of the big man he gave us Finch Farm and turned the place round fron the days of gregg/kenwright infighting. I think he did ok
Brian Waring
32   Posted 06/08/2010 at 17:10:43

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Always suspicious when the club come out and say it's costing us nothing. I remember a certain world class stadium we were getting, and that it would be ' Virtually free '
Kevin Wynn
33   Posted 07/08/2010 at 17:12:13

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brian 32
The stadium deal was virtually free in the sense it was being paif for with income that would not have beeen available had it not been for the move ie naming rights, sale of goodison etc
Like the destination or not it was a great deal
Brian Waring
34   Posted 08/08/2010 at 11:50:37

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" It was a great deal " Yes Kevin, it sure was!!!!

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