I know we've all been over this a thousand times but it riles me so much. I'm reading in the paper today that it appears Stoke, yes fucking Stoke!! are looking to have about £23 million to spend on players. For a club of Everton's standing it's disgusting that we can't even compete financially with that.
We have been in the Premier League since its launch, each season receiving huge amounts of television money from Sky, never really spending large transfer fees unless covered by players going out.
Until recently we have only just started to pay big wages to our top players,we haven't spent any money on building a new stadium, we have had a few seasons of european football,we have regular 35 thousand attendances so could anybody help me as to where does our money go and how can some of these clubs come out of the championship and below and be able to out spend us. Where has it all gone?
Anthony Hughes, Posted 06/08/2010 at 11:03:00
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1 Posted 06/08/2010 at 14:23:36
I bet Stoke don't have players on 50 , 60 grand a week and hence why they can, going by newspaper rumours, afford to spend money on new players. Plus they're probably debt free.
2 Posted 06/08/2010 at 14:35:26
3 Posted 06/08/2010 at 14:42:37
I remember the same being said three years ago, about why couldn't we compete with Pompey? (bloody Pompey!!!!!)
4 Posted 06/08/2010 at 14:42:37
I remember the same being said three years ago, about why couldn't we compete with Pompey? (bloody Pompey!!!!!)
5 Posted 06/08/2010 at 14:39:20
6 Posted 06/08/2010 at 14:51:22
7 Posted 06/08/2010 at 14:47:09
8 Posted 06/08/2010 at 14:53:54
I'm also amazed to see the comparison of whoever now spends money is obviously the next Portsmouth.
9 Posted 06/08/2010 at 15:13:57
This table shows the actual net transfer spending by premiership clubs this summer - http://www.transferleague.co.uk/index.php/Spend-V-Position/spend-v-position-2007-2011.html . So far, just 4 clubs have spent more than £5m (Man City, Birmingham, Wigan and Wolves), while 4 others including Liverpool have negative net spending of over £5m.
10 Posted 06/08/2010 at 15:16:58
David Rodaway, please take a bow funniest thing on TW 4 ages!
11 Posted 06/08/2010 at 15:18:34
I would not believe everything you see in the paper. At the start of the week all the papers were running the story that the chinese deal for the shite was only hours away from being fianlised and then on Wednesday the head of the consortium denies they have even made a bid yet.
12 Posted 06/08/2010 at 15:24:41
13 Posted 06/08/2010 at 15:39:48
and the next....
14 Posted 06/08/2010 at 16:03:54
15 Posted 06/08/2010 at 15:59:21
The best Gag on TW this year was about the chilean drum nearly been as big as the Yak's arse!
LAst year the best gag was about Dick anderson and Kieran Agard getting a room together!
16 Posted 06/08/2010 at 16:02:12
17 Posted 06/08/2010 at 16:08:48
18 Posted 06/08/2010 at 16:20:33
We are one of the most successful English teams ever. We have won the league nine times and the FA-cup five times. We have almost always played in the highest division. We have played in Europe. We have even won cups in Europe. We have until recently had one of the smallest wage-budget in the prem. We never really spend big on new players and we have more or less been a "selling club" the last 20 years.
So how can we still be in debt?
Why don't we have any money?
How can shit teams from lower divisions have more money to spend?
And finally... If a team is broke (as we are). I totally understand if it is impossible to sign new players. Because players cost money...
...BUT... from what I have heard, we are not the only broke team in the Premier League. What about Man Utd? Liverpool? They are supposed to be broke too. But how come they have always got money to spend?
What is the difference between being broke and being broke?
19 Posted 06/08/2010 at 16:30:04
Should we now be bracing ourselves for a 20m+ Barcelona bid for Arteta or rest assured that he will come out with a similar statement to that of the Arsenal captain?
In recent days star player have come out and stated their loyalty to their clubs; Torres first and Fabregas next. Yet still no word from Arteta or Pienaar.
Yes its all speculation etc etc but I really don't like this time of year. Roll on the end of this transfer window.
20 Posted 06/08/2010 at 16:39:25
Sorry, maybe a bit flippant, but still.
We are doing ok - Stoke NEED to spend £23m - we dont.
I wouldnt swap with any other club and if all were on a level cash playing field we'd be so far beyond them the league would be looking to rain us in!
21 Posted 06/08/2010 at 16:40:58
We live for the Sky money coming in. Without the sales of Lescott and Rooney we would probably we right up shit creek and have a very poor squad to go with it.
So many clubs are run differently, with some benefiting from a benefactor (Blackburn in the 1990s) some from a takeover (Chelsea/Man City) etc etc.
I think we have to face it, if we are going to achieve under the current ownership then we have to do it sooner rather than later as, presumably, only success will get the investment Bill wants (while allowing him to remain as chairman). Without a buyout or a sudden investment from somewhere it?s probably fair to say that the status quo will continue for the foreseeable ? ie. Not spending much unless we sell first.
22 Posted 06/08/2010 at 16:41:27
-had we spent some money on a new stadium in the mid 90s, we'd probably be better off financially today.
Not having spent anything on a stadium is actually one of the reasons why we don't have any money.
23 Posted 06/08/2010 at 16:47:33
We have a £10 m asset at Bellfield, but would we get the money for this or have we already allocated to another company.
It makes me wonder when the likes of Blackburn are supposedly in the process of being taken over, that our club is split between so many people with mortgages everywhere, our only assets may be the playing staff !
maybe its just impossible to do a deal for Everton ?
24 Posted 06/08/2010 at 17:23:34
25 Posted 06/08/2010 at 17:26:39
26 Posted 06/08/2010 at 17:16:20
Who finished higher in the League last season ? It's the number of points that you gain not the amount of money that you spend that counts. Yes a whacking great transfer budget does help. However, Hull City landed themselves in a whole heap of trouble because it turns out that they were spending money they hadn't got. I don't know about Stoke City but Portsmouth are very lucky to still be in business.
Does anybody really think Portsmouth's transfer spending is something we would want to emulate ?
Who knows Beckford could turn out to be the signing of the season - but if it doesn't work out we haven't spent millions and millions on the player have we? Lets wait and see - I presume that there are a few of you who have read Anthony's article who are going to rush out to the bookies and put a few quid on Stoke City? I have my doubts on that one.
I had a look on the Portsmouth website the other day - their 1st team squad was 14 players - including 1 goalkeeper and 3 defenders. Perhaps the fella with the big hat will get a game on Saturday ? It certainly made rather sober reading I would guess if you are a Pompey fan - and what has happened to them and the predicament Hull City are in shows that it's perhaps best to be a bit cautious regarding transfer dealings.
27 Posted 06/08/2010 at 17:30:48
I spoke to Keith Harris last year but because of confidentiality agreements not much can be said about it.
But I can tell you it is very complicated which may put a few buyers off.
Suffice it to say we did not progress our discussions.
28 Posted 06/08/2010 at 17:46:14
I'm not going to knock Beckford and I hope he does well and as Moyes rightly says it's a free transfer so it's hardly a gamble. However, at the end of the day we are never realistically going to have sufficient financial backing to move onto the next level as shown following promising seasons when we qualified for the Champions League qualifier and when we finished fifth for the first time after reaching the Carling Cup semi final and having a good run in the Uefa Cup, seasons when we would have been able to attract top players to improve the team had we been given financial backing.
29 Posted 06/08/2010 at 18:02:58
I understand the complexities and the ins and outs of deals. I have myself signed confidentiality clauses in the presence of a lawyer and been given documents which have my name on each page in the form of a watermark etc. etc.
However, if, as we have been led to believe, a succession of potential buyers/investors regularly meet certain parties from Everton, not all of these individuals sign such agreements. There are almost always preliminary ?speedating? discussions at which people are given the heads up on ball park figures or potential constraints.
If the latter two are prohibitive, restrictive, or plain ridiculous, then the suspicions of a number of people on TW may be correct, viz. that Everton aren?t really, realistically, for sale. I was just trying to get to the bottom of that one.
30 Posted 06/08/2010 at 19:07:22
There has not been a better question asked than Kevin Spencer's (18) "What is the difference between being broke and being broke?"
I would also love to have this explained (preferably by someone who understands finance, but doesn't use too many big long 'financey' words)
31 Posted 06/08/2010 at 19:07:47
However, there is a an appalling acceptance on this site of second best. A gratitude to Moyes and Kenwright that is utterly unjustified by anything they have achieved. We will not be Leeds nor will we be Portsmouth. For fucks sake this summer we have spent the Lucas Neill money. Something stinks at Everton and Anthony has raised a very fair point.
Stoke City are outspending us and that is not good enough. One is almost frightened to suggest that the optimism on the site is utterly bizarre. In my view, and I honestly hope I am wrong, by Christmas we will be back to reality.
32 Posted 06/08/2010 at 19:30:48
Somehow or other £15 million turned up to sign Fellaini at the 11th hour when the fans had been expecting Moutinho to be signed...but now we seem to be relatively safe and no longer fear relegation and the 40 point mark is no longer on the agenda...we have lapsed once again into a 'no spend' policy which DM endorses.
It is a well known fact that every succesful team stays active in the transfer market even when they are winning trophies so that they can cement their position at the top...we have no such plan and that is why we can never keep our main assets happy for long.
Winning trophies and caps is the main aim of every pro footballer worth his salt and if he has a realistic chance to do so with the club he is playing for then he will stay especially if he is a home grown talent.
If not..he moves on !!
Most foreign players are here for the money and who can blame them...I have spent most of my life working overseas but its always nice to get home and I suppose footballers are much the same.
33 Posted 06/08/2010 at 19:49:13
Shevchenko (to name one) was35 million - doesnt mean hes great.
We ARE NOT BEING OUTSPENT, we are being sensible.
Loads of you saying we can win the league then you all moan that Stoke are spending 23 mill (they need to spend 50 mill to fight for mid table).
So we can win the league you all say, then you say we cant get anywhere without a few major signings.
Moyes has an eye for players. Benitez said he needs 60 mill for 3 players. Moyes could make a Team for that, and a very good team.
Just cos Everton are actually being sensible with their money doesnt mean we are not ambitious.
Utd, Chelsea, City, Pompey, Red Shite may well look back in ten years time thinking, I wish we had done what Everton did, they messed up in the 90's (helped by someone and some club) but we learnt from it.
I dont mind not spending money as long as its for very good and sensible reason, if were not spending and this money is disappearing, then I would be very p'd off.
In Blue Bill I Trust ;)
34 Posted 06/08/2010 at 20:14:17
35 Posted 06/08/2010 at 20:23:56
The thing is who comes in instead? The one thing i don't get is if there is so many people out there who would want to invest in everton and have the finance to do so but have been ignored etc by Kenwright because he does not want to lose power then why have these people not gone public ie spoken to the press, leaked stories etc?
36 Posted 06/08/2010 at 20:33:28
David, if QPR, Citeh, Pompey, Notts County etc are getting taken over then EVERTON must have had approaches.
Even so im happy with BK in charge and dont want these foreighners in charge.
Its better the Devil you know
37 Posted 06/08/2010 at 20:37:57
Yes I imagine there has been conmen come to Kenwright like the previous Pompey and County owners and I for one am pleased that he has turned them away. However, as far as I can see the only clubs who have had really successful takeovers are City and Chelsea.
38 Posted 06/08/2010 at 20:40:05
The time to moan is when the likes of Stoke City finish above us every season. So this bloke who is the owner/Chairman of Stoke City is the 25th richest man in the UK - well they have been back in the top division but I can't recall him spending loads of money.
I remember back in the 1970's when were amongst the top spenders. For goodness sake when we signed Martin Dobson for £300,000 questions were asked on BBC News about money being the dominant factor in fooball !!! Yes back in 1974 that transfer fee was amongst the top fees paid and we were one of the main spending clubs.Times have changed indeed - but then as now money doesn,t always but success.
Robinho at Man City £30M+ and what have they got to show for their investment? Spending money is one thing - the main thing is spending the money wisely.Perhaps some of you have forgotten that Howard Kendall wasn't always amongst the top spending managers. The 1985 team included some "bargain basement" signings such as Kevin Sheedy from Liverpool Reserves and Derek Mountfield from Tranmere also some fella we got from Bury in goal - Southall.
Back in 1976 when I was on my first teaching practice, at St Bonaventure's in Aintree,one of the teachers at lunch time jokingly remarked when he looked at the sports pages " I see Everton are doing their team building from Luton Town these days !!!" It was a piss take on Everton signing Andy King for £35,000 from Luton. I always meant to find out if the bloke was still laughing when Andy King scored THAT goal in the 1978 Deby match !!!
39 Posted 06/08/2010 at 21:03:02
We are always skint and they NEVER do anything about it.
Never mind, Bill's a true blue,he loves the club,got its best interests at heart etc etc.
40 Posted 06/08/2010 at 21:32:33
Peter Johnson for all his faults and mismanagement left the club with a 5 million overdraft with money still due to Everton following a couple of sales which had not been fully paid up.
Also unlike Kenwright he did not preside over operating losses every year of his tenure bar one (The Rooney money year).
Under Kenwright the debt has risen(according to Elstone at last years AGM to around 80 million which is costing 4 million a year in interest.
He also sold off our previous training ground and we now lease Finch Farm.
He also mortgaged Goodison Park and future season ticket sales.
He has also enjoyed the 25 million plus from Rooney's sale which was unprecedented but in fairness other players sales like Lescott,Beattie,Johnson and McFadden provided funding for new players.
He also has not put a single penny of his own into EFC and refuses to have a rights issue which would give the club valuable funds.
DK cost 4 million in "experts" fees.
We have sold or mortgaged every asset and most future income streams.
Furhermore we still appear to have no long or even medium term business or marketing plan for the club.
And you lot wonder why we're skint.
Moyes has presented this board with countless opportunities to build on what he has achieved and they have failed him and us every time.
However I am hoping this current round of optimism about the manager and his team is justified because it could just be DM's last hurragh.
41 Posted 06/08/2010 at 21:55:16
I just find it strange that all of a sudden we are in with a chance of winning the league, top 4 etc, with virtually the same squad that could only finish 8th last season.
I know a lot of you will point to the 2nd half of the season, and how well we done, but we still only finished 8th.
42 Posted 06/08/2010 at 22:08:24
43 Posted 06/08/2010 at 22:23:03
We only finished 7th in 83/84 and in 84/85 we won the league. So it's not so inconceivable.
44 Posted 06/08/2010 at 22:19:16
Strange all this because there was one company who wanted to help us build a stadium and you lot moaned like buggery? It just all goes to prove that we all know 'jackshit' about running/financing a football club including those accountants/solicitors/architects who regularly appear on here with their 'inside knowledge and chats with Keith Harris..
Stick to supporting the players on the pitch and leave the club to be run by its owners. And just one more thing, however bad you think Kenwright is, John Moores started the current decline when amongst other things he built a stand which was out of date soon as he built it, he wouldn't back Bingham when he wanted to but Shilton and finally let all his millions to be used by David Moores to back the RS.
45 Posted 06/08/2010 at 22:31:29
If thats true it makes a mockey of claims from his supporters he looks after the clubs best interests,because thats him having his OWN best interests at heart.
For all his faults even Peter Johnson had a rights issue in late 1996 which enabled us to buy Nick Barmby.
46 Posted 06/08/2010 at 22:36:24
Have you heard of anyone who is willing to invest in the club?
47 Posted 06/08/2010 at 22:42:36
48 Posted 06/08/2010 at 22:18:34
A lot of other people seem to be deluding themselves that the club not spending money on player acquisitions is some kind of prudent managerial decision by David Moyes. You really think Kenwright and Moyes have sat down together and lamented the financial madness prevalent in the Premier League, and decided to take a principled stand against spiralling transfer fees? Unbelievable.
The club are penniless. The club are heavily in debt. The club spends all it's income on operating costs, servicing debt, and staff salaries. The club has no idea how to increase existing, or generate new, revenue streams. The club lacks any real leadership and is being held back by a bewildered board unable to come up with a workable business strategy .
Do you seriously believe David Moyes is not tearing his hair out at this state of affairs? Do you think he's happy constantly fighting with both hands tied behind his back? Some have said on this site that Moyes 'loves' Kenwright and has a great relationship with him. Maybe so, but deep down he must know the guy is an incompetent dick hopelessly out of his depth. Sooner or later he's going to get sick of waiting for his bungling buddy Bill to come up with a solution to the clubs ever worsening financial predicament.
49 Posted 06/08/2010 at 22:53:21
Stoke, on the other hand, survived 2 seasons with relatively inexpensive ( in wages terms ) players, have banked the Sky cash and have some left over to spend.
Don't worry mate. If they spend £23m on those 3 with the accompanying wages there's every chance their wage bill will rocket and they'll be as skint as EFC in a few years time.
Wages, greedy players, conniving agents, pigs at the trough, call it waht you want, but that's where all the cash has gone.
It's a thought that in the last 6 years since Rooney was sold, the Club will have taken in £250m in TV revenue - enough to build a superb new stadium, but most of that will have gone to players. Just think about that incredible sum of money - £250m and that's a minimum.
The Club's income is £80m a season with over £50m going on wages alone. By the time you add in all the other costs, it's no wonder there ainta lot left for transfers is it? And don't forget... it's not just the transfer fee, but also the wages. £50k a week for 4 years - there's another £10.4m spunked away. You might geta Cahill, but you might get a Van der Meyde.
It'll all end in tears one day.
50 Posted 06/08/2010 at 23:38:03
I think that's a load of crap. If Kenwright was full of sht, Davey Boy would call it.
51 Posted 06/08/2010 at 23:58:27
52 Posted 07/08/2010 at 01:21:48
Kenwright is full of shit 24/7.
53 Posted 07/08/2010 at 01:52:56
54 Posted 07/08/2010 at 07:43:58
Something must be seriously wrong when people chose to invest in the likes of Birmingham, Blackburn, and Stoke while a much bigger club like Everton is hardly linked to any real investment.
Jay (#40) could not have summed up our situation better. I am sick and tired of Kenwright's incompetence and lack of business acumen. At the rate the club is incurring losses, we will surely close shop in the near future!
55 Posted 07/08/2010 at 08:31:57
56 Posted 07/08/2010 at 09:13:16
The players have been bought with or secured against Sky money, again not a penny from BK, in Fellaini's case with a Earl as guarantor so not even BK. Get your head out of the sand and look at the bigger picture.
57 Posted 07/08/2010 at 14:08:26
He will not dilute his shareholding even though the value may remain the same or even increase because of what the investment of a rights issue would produce.
The man is paranoid about holding on to his chairmanship despite what he claims..
yes I do.
As I explained earlier I approached Keith Harris last year but suffice it to say the situation was not attractive enough to proceed.
58 Posted 07/08/2010 at 15:02:31
I asked whether he would like his club to become like Man City. Very little in touch with city fans anymore and just a name in the press.
He couldn't bring himself to entertain the view as he still saw dreams of The Kop and the 70's and 80's.
I left him to his dreams but sensed a little bit of jealousy about the pride and confidence he sees in Everton fans at the moment.
Personally I think we have shown a brilliant way to run a club recently and I have a sense we may well be the way many clubs will have to go in future.
But I concede that Indian/Chinese/Arab money may create some "super "clubs for a while. .
But I think in the end they will be watched by the poulations of those countries and form their own league.
If they do, we will be in a league that is from this country and supported by this country. With Villa, Spurs and other teams from the cities of the country.
Just as we were when I was born and was christened a blue.
It may be that I am approaching 50 but I don't have too much worry about that.
59 Posted 07/08/2010 at 14:55:41
60 Posted 07/08/2010 at 17:43:19
Good enough for me.
61 Posted 07/08/2010 at 18:39:00
Moyes is hardly likely to slag off his boss in public is he?
Do your really think he's happy with BK handing him a transfer budjet of £0 every bleedin' summer?
62 Posted 08/08/2010 at 00:11:21
For many Evertonians David Moyes is the best thing that has happened to the club since Howard Kendall. He certainly doesn't need to keep Blue Bill sweet!
63 Posted 08/08/2010 at 08:37:48
64 Posted 08/08/2010 at 12:24:12
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