There's been a lot of debate lately about Chairman Bill's role at the club, and the one phrase used a lot by his supporter's seem to be "he has the club's best interests at heart". This winds me up something rotten!
I'm not going to dredge up all his failings and cock-ups because everyone makes mistakes and I haven't got all day, but I would like to ask his supporters to answer a few questions for me.
1) If he has the best interests of EFC at heart, why aren't we playing in the King's Dock Arena?
2) If he has the club's best interests at heart, why did he try to take us to Kirkby ? based on the lie that Goodison Park could not be redeveloped... something that is now happening?
3) And last, but by no means least, why, if he's "just a fan", is he asking for close to £200 million for the club and having his mate Phil Green handle the sale?
Answers on a postcard...
Stephen Kenny, Posted 08/08/2010 at 20:03:50
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1 Posted 09/08/2010 at 05:37:40
Kenwright's not perfect, but he's keeping the ship steady and we're doing ok.
We aren't playing at Kings Dock because the club aren't seen as an attractive enough proposition for the type of Super Chairman you clearly want to come in and run the club.
Funny how we all slagged off Chelski for being Russian, Utd and the Shite for being Yanks and Citeh for being Arabs yet the majority still want the same for Everton.
Portsmouth. Nuff said.
2 Posted 09/08/2010 at 06:19:40
2) He wanted to go to Kirkby because it would boost the value of his shares.
3) Who knows who is handling the sale,or even if the club is up for sale. When the DK inquiry revealed it wasn't.
Mr Ego has his OWN best interests at heart,not the clubs.
3 Posted 09/08/2010 at 06:56:13
And incidentally, whether the 200m number is right or wrong, you cant simultaneously want him out, but also not expect him to have a desired sale price!
4 Posted 09/08/2010 at 07:16:51
If he has the best interests of EFC at heart, why aren't we playing in the King's Dock Arena?
slight inconsistency there, Stephen.
1. I don't recall the whys and wherefores of King's Dock, except we didn't get the money. I fear we'll forever regret that.
2. we're no redeveloping GP
3. Where have you go the Â£200 m figure from? Never heard r read of it
5 Posted 09/08/2010 at 07:36:31
6 Posted 09/08/2010 at 07:21:39
BK MUST surely have the clubs interest at heart or he is the greatest actor ever which he isn't, that's why he's an impressario and a chairman.
For all the problems highlighted over the recent years mainly during Moysey's reign, the most damning is not being at the 'STADIUM OF KINGS' as I would have called it back in 2003.
However take a look at the premier league table on this very page and take a look BELOW us which club would you want to be? EXACTLY!!
BK is right with his over used phrase I'll admit 'It's got to be right for Everton' but he's right, look at what the money has done to them across the park.
PS I wrote in last week about getting Crouch (and McGeady) and letting Yakubu go to WHU, well it's just gone 7:20 on sky sports news and they just said we are in for Crouch with Yak 'blowing bubbles' I'm rubbing the arl crystal ball for McGeady (only if Peanuts goes, shame)
7 Posted 09/08/2010 at 07:57:18
2) Nobody has ever said GP can?t be redeveloped, BK has stated on many occasions this would his preferred option but the cost against lost revenue, time and quality of finished stadia doesn?t stack up with our current cash flow so it?s not an attractive option. We chose Kirkby because we had two major sponsors in KBC and Tesco willing to offer us aid, not perfect but considering our situation is was viable just not what we had all hoped and wished for as Evertonians. Moving forward I expect GP to be done but over a very long period.
3) Seems you have been drinking because our value is nothing like £200 million, Kenwright only owns just under 30% of EFC so you can in theory but the club without his shares. He will not sell to a company of person who will not clear the debit to the bank as part of the deal this meaning a buyer would need in my opinion £100 million or so to get control of the club, this for us as fans is frustrating but for the good of the club is sound business. Obviously he as major shareholder and will benefit from any sale but that is his right after buying the club off Johnson.
I have said this on many occasions, he isn?t perfect and has made mistakes notably KD but the reason why he fails all comes back to the fact he doesn?t have the private wealth to back the club and he has never once shrugged that fact. Also not one major interested party has ever gone public with interest in EFC because as a business and club we are not attractive purchase, to us that?s weird but if you look at balance sheet its completely understandable. COYB
8 Posted 09/08/2010 at 08:25:12
I firmly believe that BK is doing what he thinks is best for the club, and that is all I ask him to do. Whether this always agrees with my or anybody else's opinion on what's best is largely irrelevant to be honest as we aren't the ones who have to make the decisions on a daily basis.
Whatever anybody may say, he's clearly not in it just to make a few quid, and believes he's doing what is best for Everton FC, which is all you can ask of a chairman in reality (every other issue is due to lack of finance, which he doesn't have).
9 Posted 09/08/2010 at 09:08:48
We all have our opinions on him - Some think his support of the club entitles him to consistently fail to achieve any investment and talk bollocks - others think it doesn't.
Either way, it's clear that these diametric opinions will never meet.
10 Posted 09/08/2010 at 09:10:31
If it's so difficult, then how have so called smaller teams such as Derby, Stoke, Boro, Huddersfield, Sunderland, Southampton, Chesterfield, Doncaster, Wigan and even Rotherham magange it.
11 Posted 09/08/2010 at 09:17:38
12 Posted 09/08/2010 at 08:53:31
Well maybe the exact sentence - 'Goodison Park can't be redeveloped' has never ACTUALLY been said (in that exact and precise form) but for most people the quote "There is no plan B" said EXACTLY that.
Whether it is an 'attractive' option is an entirely different thing.
(personally I put my faith in the opinions of experts like Tom Hughes, rather than those with 'personal interests' who have already lied to me on numerous occasions)
"He will not sell to a company of person who will not clear the debit to the bank as part of the deal this meaning a buyer would need in my opinion £100 million or so to get control of the club, this for us as fans is frustrating but for the good of the club is sound business"
Actually you could shorten that to 'He will not sell'
Not my opinion - a statement of fact on Tesco documents that emerged during the DK.
One many choose to (conveniently) ignore.
Anyone who believes in '24/7' should beware if approached by a feller with a Teddy Boy haircut, a pencil-line muzzy and a large kipper tie (with a nude on), try selling you a bridge for fifty nicker. It's a scam!
13 Posted 09/08/2010 at 09:09:59
Whether you like Kenwright or not, this is a massive problem. We have a strong squad and are pretty much ok for this season but what about next summer. The squad gets older and less valuable.
The only option Kenwright has got is to sell his assets.
How strong will his support be when he decides to sell Rodwell "For the good of the club"
14 Posted 09/08/2010 at 08:26:35
TW has talked this subject to death and IMO I look where we are now and where we were we BK came on board and you have to say that we are in a far better position regarding playing staff but hopelessly fucked regarding a new stadium, marketing and anything else that is business related.
But hey, I'm a supporter and I would rather have good players than a brand spanking new 60 thousand, all seater & all dancing footy pitch.
I mean does BK fuck-up, it would seem to us that's almost always. Does BK lie, Oh yes. Will BK go his mates in the media and squarely fuck you up if you try to have a pop, speak to Gregg about that one.
Actually he sounds a right lad but let's give it rest and get on with supporting the blues as this season looks very, very promising. If the players deliver the rest will come.
P.S: post no 6 - regarding Crouch & EFC. Please leave rumours like that out, I mean I choked on my toast and went a bit funny. Crouch is extremely shite, fucking useless and how he became a footballer is a mystery.
15 Posted 09/08/2010 at 09:14:41
What does he have to do, for you to see through him? Stab you in the back? He's done that already, to all of us!!
16 Posted 09/08/2010 at 09:34:44
17 Posted 09/08/2010 at 09:34:47
Yes, Kenwright has made many major mistakes (the Kings Dock, Fortress Sports Fund and Kirby debacles being the most obvious) and we shouldn't forget any of that. I also strongly dislike the culture of spin and shutting down of dissent that seems to be becoming prevalent in the club.
But at the end of the day, we may yet come out of all this looking rather good. We've avoided the Kirkby poisoned chalice, and haven't been taken over by shady forces who will strip the club bare. The club is not effectively bankrupt, unlike several others in the league. We have an exceptionally good manager and, finally, a committed squad worthy of his abilities. If one or two pieces fall into place and our key players stay injury free, top 4 looks a real possibility this year, and if we break into the CL then all bets are off.
Of course it could all go horribly wrong yet. But for now, for once, I have not just hope but genuine optimism for the club's future, and I like it.
18 Posted 09/08/2010 at 10:39:37
Frankly Everton will continue to stuggle to compete when we play in a ground thats full of restricted views. GP has awful facilties inside and outside of the ground. We sell some of the worst food and drink in the Prem. Honestly, could they please try and sell another beer. When you buy a Chang, it is usually warm and usually not what it says in the tin literally.
We play in an inner city area not friendly to visitors as there is virtually no way of parking. Is it to much to ask to expect to have somewhere to rest your drink or food in LGS.
19 Posted 09/08/2010 at 10:55:22
20 Posted 09/08/2010 at 11:37:27
Cahill, Rodwell, Arteta and hopefully Pienaar all signed up. Couple of shrewd signings and hopefully "one or two" more (but even if not, nothing disastrous). Happenings at Goodison Park, and a very exciting prospective season.
I can't see it as a time to bring up stuff which has been discussed over and over - Bill has made many mistakes, said a lot of stupid things, but usually I get the feeling he says these things because he's genuinely excited rather than just trying to piss everyone off.
I disagree with the "Portsmouth argument" and would like us to have money in place to really compete... but we're not doing too badly at the moment - but it looks as though it will be unsustainable for too long.
21 Posted 09/08/2010 at 11:47:26
They eventually did and have built a stadium (part funded by Tesco!) at a cost of about £10m to Chesterfield FC ? provided by a new investor as they had no money.
so for reference ? they could only afford it due to new investment and Tesco contribution ? and the cost of a new stadium for them (and most of the clubs on your list ) is substantially lower than one would be for Everton given the size & quality of stadium that supporters demand.
Just because you never find out about it until it gets built, don't for one minute believe that it happens easily elsewhere. Even a town like Chesterfield with a reasonable amount of spare land around struggled to find anywhere appropriate for a football ground.
Oh and the car parking availabilibty for the new ground is fairly poor at present.
22 Posted 09/08/2010 at 11:49:22
"We will be split over this by those who are happy just to tick over in the Premier Peague and flirt with 4th place now and again and those of us like myself who have seen Everton as the best side in the league and probably Europe".
Do you not think all Everton fans (actually all football fans of every club in Europe) want their team to be top dogs? The simple truth is these rich owners who have the best interests of the club at heart are few and far between.
23 Posted 09/08/2010 at 11:54:57
By the time of the second supporters' ballot (Nov 2000), Bill Kenwright acknowledged that, however costly, Goodison Park could indeed be redeveloped. Hence the expanded options on the second ballot sheet: 1) King's Dock; 2) redevelop Goodison (to 45k); 3) or redevelop Goodison (to 55k).
It is often forgotten that the "redevelop Goodison" options were on the King's Dock ballot form, in stark contrast to Peter Johnson's reprehensible first ballot sheet.
24 Posted 09/08/2010 at 12:29:22
Keith Wyness originally stated GP couldnt be redeveloped alongside the "wont get a safety cert" comment. BK never came out and denied any of this or censored Wyness.
Regardless of Paul Gregg's motives, if he was willing to put the money up for Everton to move to the Kings Dock Arena then Bill would never have blocked this if he had EFC's best interest's at heart. He blocked it because he would have lost control of the club. Ask yourself who's interest that was in?
He put a minimal amount into the club and is now looking for a massive return on his investment. I don't begrudge this in ordinary business circumstance, except that he is saying he's not in it for the money.
Yes, we have much better player's now than we have had in the past 15-20 years.
Yes, we now do much better in the league than we have done for the last 15-20 years.
But, we are in a much more parlous state of the pitch and are just as badly run as we have ever been.
The tent in the car park tell's me everything i need to know about the way Bill Kenwright runs a multi-million pound business.
25 Posted 09/08/2010 at 12:47:54
Who is willing to come in and plough millions into the club instead of Kenwright? I don't know anyone do you?
26 Posted 09/08/2010 at 12:53:39
We have no money now for players or a new stadium so if we had new owners how could we have any less money than we have now? Kenwright is NOT the be all and end all of football owners.
27 Posted 09/08/2010 at 12:56:19
perhaps if you read one of the string of threads on this subject you might stop asking the most pointless question and note that those who offer investment/buyout proposals aren't in the business of shouting about it if unsuccessful... Why? Pride or Non Disclosure Agreements, I don't know. But Bill himself said very recently that he speaks to interested parties all the time "7 or 8 times a year" http://ww.Toffeeweb.com/season/10-11/comment/mailbag/15571.html
28 Posted 09/08/2010 at 13:18:08
I don't think anyone is saying "anything but Kenwright is a bad thing". I also don't think anyone is under the impression that he is the "be all and end all of football owners". I think we would all like a person who can invest in players and a new stadium, but who are they? Have you got someone in mind?
29 Posted 09/08/2010 at 13:12:33
We can bitch and moan as much as we want but it will not make the slightest iota of difference to Kenwright, do you think he trawls these forums and has sleepless nights? Not a chance.
Good point at the start of the thread, people want him out and then slate him for wanting to make a few bob out of it......imagine that, a business man wanting to get a profit on his return...... Ye Gods.
30 Posted 09/08/2010 at 13:31:10
Mikel and timmy have been our best players for years now, are massive figures in the dressing room and two players that other teams are worried about.
Rodwell and Coleman two massive prospects and the type of players we require to keep moving forward in the future.
Pienaar is the last requirement.
31 Posted 09/08/2010 at 13:36:15
If there was anyone who truly had the finances available to take this club forward they would have the story leaked if Kenwright was blocking them.
I would guess majority of those people who are ringing him that he has mentioned are the same type of people who then went after Portsmouth and Notts County etc ie conmen who never had the finances they said they have.
Do you really think if the likes of the Glazers, Hicks and Gillet, the arabs at city or roman at chelsea etc had shown an interest in everton and kenwright had refused to release his hold on the club we would not have heard about it?
How do you know people have had to sign non disclosure agreements? Were you in the meetings when these agreements were signed? Also, pride, is that like when Barcelona made a bid for Fabregas and once it got turned down thay kept quiet and did not leak the story to put more pressure on Arsenal to sell. Same with Real Madrid and Ronaldo or Lescott and city.
32 Posted 09/08/2010 at 13:46:57
33 Posted 09/08/2010 at 13:51:53
If the answer to this oft repeated question is negative..does that mean a) that there actually is no-one b) that the criticism is invalid or c) nothing whatsoever?
I'd plump for C.
34 Posted 09/08/2010 at 14:37:46
35 Posted 09/08/2010 at 15:50:06
I don't know what clearing the debt to the bank has to do with anything.
If the purchaser is wealthy (like Abramovitch) then the money becomes a debt to him, if the purchaser is not wealthy and has to borrow the money from someone else (like Gillette & Hicks) then it becomes a debt to a different bank.
In either case the debt doesn't suddenly disappear.
36 Posted 09/08/2010 at 20:44:09
37 Posted 09/08/2010 at 20:59:17
What's rubbish? Kenwright's statement? You're all seeing eye into the full plans of all these "con-men"?
Somebody mentioned the need to sign NDAs when entering talks. I was not at those meetings as I am not a millionaire/billionaire or head up a consortium. I do not have friends who are in that position either, unfortunately. Are you? Can you shed some actual light on this or simply rant about all of the con-men that you know personally?
Nobody has to proved that there are people enquiring about the club as Kenwright has now stated that there are. That is simply a fact.
Didn't Lerner say he was interested in purchasing Everton before he bought Villa... Perhaps you know about what his intentions were then or why he did not run to the press because Bill wouldn't sell to him?
In the mean time, if you're interested in something other than your own rubbish-filtering foresight, I think this is one of the better articles I've read on the subject: bleacherreport.com/articles/378517-why-has-nobody-bought-everton
38 Posted 09/08/2010 at 21:44:57
I was going to answer each of the questions you asked me in your last post, but its only when half way through drafting the response i realised it was a pointless exercise. Whatever i said that may put Kenwright in a slightly more positive light i'm sure you would not agree with and vice versa anything you said would not make me consider Kenwright to be the "anti christ" which seems to be the overriding opinion on this site.
I think we will have to agree to disagree otherwise i have got a feeling it will turn into groundhog day.
39 Posted 09/08/2010 at 22:52:19
If you read my post at #21 you'll see that's simply not the case. I just feel that the argument of "well look at Portsmouth" or that all other clubs who've gained investment have somehow been conned is not true.
Kenwright has fucked up... he is not the anti-Christ though - well in my opinon.
Far too often things heralded as positives for Bill, suchas sticking by Moyes when he couldn't necessarily have afforded to get rid of him.
Perhaps I was a bit harsh on you, but I've just found that line of "where's the queue of investors?" etc repeated over and over. Of course it's impossible to answer that we're not privvy to that information - but common sense says that if there's been investors/buyers elsewhere then people would have enquired about Everton. This was constantly used as a rational for moving to Kirkby. Finally, now Bill admits there have been interested parties, but supposedly it's "rubbish".
Groundhog Day can stem from either side of the argument, but asking me personally to prove the existence of interested parties (pre-Bill's statement) is as futile as me asking you to investigate the legitimacy and financial strength of these parties (albeit you've decided to discredit them because they did not launch a PR campaign to smear Kenwirght and Everton's owners names)... unless you're personally involved in all of those meetings and have an opportunity to have earnest conversations with all those involved how can you possibly tell what is being offered and what everyones trues intentions are?
Even if you're a personal confident to any of Bill, Earl, Woods, Green(?) or anyone wanted to buy/invest how are you absolutely sure they're not feeding you rubbish or that their personal feelings are not seperate from others involved? You can't. All you can base this on is what you read/hear and try and cut through the shit.
In asking the same question about billionaires you might as well just type "my Dad's harder than your dad".
40 Posted 09/08/2010 at 23:54:15
"You can't. All you can base this on is what you read/hear and try and cut through the shit"
Exactly, that is what I am trying to say when I suggested we will have to agree to disagree. We have both read and heard things and comes to different opinions on this particular matter. From what I personally have read, heard and people I have spoken to, I believe if Kenwright had had investors who had the finance they claimed to have and Kenwright thought they had the best interests of the club at heart, then we would have had new owners a long time ago.
As Kenwright is still the chairman of our club at present, that would suggest to me that no-one has approached the board with an offer obtaining the level of investment we need and a strategy suitable to take this club forward.
41 Posted 10/08/2010 at 00:40:17
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