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New Season... Same Old Shit

Comments (119)

Neville and Osman starting. Listless performance. Players still on the summer break.

Season opener and a crap result and performance. And... a loss.

Sickening stuff really. Those are exactly the types of game we must win if we are to break the Top 4. Tough road trip or not, I expect much, much more of this season's squad. Just a complete let-down.

Suppose I shouldn't be suprised. Opening day, isn't it?

Same shit, different season.
Jamie Crowley, St Augustine, Florida     Posted 14/08/2010 at 16:55:07

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Michael Kenrick
1   Posted 14/08/2010 at 17:10:40

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Jamie: Nail... head. Total let-down.
Mike McLean
2   Posted 14/08/2010 at 17:10:43

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Not the end of the world just yet.

Oh and could I say hi to the three or four guys who hammered me when I said we wouldn't be winning trophies with Howard in the team?

Steve Cotton
3   Posted 14/08/2010 at 17:14:20

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No width what so ever, Baines the only one trying ...
Kevin Hudson
4   Posted 14/08/2010 at 17:11:37

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On the 'Team for Blackburn' thread, I selected Mucha, as I've been increasingly anti-Howard for the last 2 years now.

A decent, away point if the liability hadn't done for us again. Maybe more, as we wouldn't have felt as pressurised without his calamitous "catch."
Tony J Williams
5   Posted 14/08/2010 at 17:17:04

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Can't wait for the gobshites on Match of the Day taking the piss out of our kit... and our performance.
Joe McMahon
6   Posted 14/08/2010 at 17:15:17

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Until Moyes leaves out Neville & Osman we will never actually acheave anything. He's now starting his 9th season in charge, he will never learn that one up front (who hasn't scored for approx 13 games) and no pace will not get us anywhere. This started with Marcus Bent, years ago, 4th spot yeah blah, negative goal difference and a shambles in Europe (for a change).

Yes, we won't go down... but we will always be finishing mid-table to 8th, unless he changes his spots and our twat of a Cchairman gets lucky after 10 years of searching 24/7.

WATCH THIS SPACE!

Jon Ferguson
7   Posted 14/08/2010 at 17:17:00

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We should have been signaling our intent from the start. Coleman should have started and, although I am not one to get on Osman's back, he should never have been in the first 11. Rodwell or Bily should have been on from the start.

Despite the loss, I don't think we played awfully. We had some good moves and just couldn't put an end to them. Howard's blunder allowed Blackburn to play the classic Allardyce game.

I won't be giving up on top 4 just yet though!
Ian Edwards
8   Posted 14/08/2010 at 17:26:02

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Typical Moyes tactics. No width... pedestrian... no plan B... players in the wrong positions (Cahill right wing in 2nd half)... negative formation.

No surprise whatsoever at today's result. We've seen it hundreds of times under Moyes. One up front again at home to Wolves next week? You bet...

Robert Moore
9   Posted 14/08/2010 at 17:28:01

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Not feeling well after that game... early days, lads... keep the chins up.
Tony Hughes
10   Posted 14/08/2010 at 17:27:27

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People say moyes is learning his lesson... er... where exactly?? It's like fucking Groundhog Day!
Richard Harris
11   Posted 14/08/2010 at 17:35:08

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Right on, Ian! It doesn't matter who plays if there is only Plan A and that's not working. We have had more lucky than unlucky results under David Moyes and each season I look for us to dominate teams when we are on top and win the game... but...
Chris Lawlor
12   Posted 14/08/2010 at 17:34:35

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As soon as I saw Neville and Osman on the teamsheet I expected a draw at best..... It's the 1st game of the season so there's no real harm done. That said, Moyes has to realise that one up front is pointless. Why the hell was Bily on the bench and if it's not too late, can we ban that atrocious pink kit?!

Not panic stations yet but a win in the next game is a must; otherwise, we are back to where we were 12 months ago even if we do have the best squad at the club for years.
Joseph Elworthy
13   Posted 14/08/2010 at 17:40:03

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I hate the away kit... adds injury to insult when they play like they did today.
Mike Oates
14   Posted 14/08/2010 at 17:39:44

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Well, here we go again... and I?m not going to call for heads to roll etc etc ? we?ll have enough of that from many who contribute ? and Blackburn away as they proved last year to Chelsea, Utd etc isn?t the easiest place to start.

To me, I thought our passing and movement today was ok, we did on the majority of occasions try to play our way through them as there was no way we were going to beat them in the air. There were one or three hoofs but a long way less than would have been the case 2 years ago.

Where did it go wrong? Well, my own personal theories are multi-fold:

First and foremost, I don't believe that our pre-season (and not for the first time) is anywhere near good enough to get us to that quality level required to break teams down. Whilst we retained the ball well, particularly in the 2nd half, our speed of passing, our ball control, our sharpness, our inventiveness was poor, and to me that only comes with playing at that level for two or three games... Games against Sydney, Melbourne, Preston, Everton Chile and Norwich are never good enough to raise the players' levels. We should be playing against the likes of Wolfsburg, Valencia, Weder Bremen, and Benfica, as most other Premier League teams seem to be doing; even allowing that they aren?t at full strength, they would still give us a better game than our current pre-season games. We shouldn?t mind loosing as long as the players are raising their performances.

Secondly, Moyes is still too cautious with his team selection. I?m not saying we throw in Coleman, Gueye, Beckford et al in one go but, if there?s two things Moyes must have learnt over the last 6 weeks, it is that Rodwell, Coleman and Beckford do pose major threats to teams. Whether they can do it at the Premier League level is another thing... but at least give one of them a start rather than throwing them on for 15 mins at the end. If Cahill was also injured this week, why not give Rodwell or Bily a chance there?

Thirdly, I thought Pienaar and Howard looked well off the pace physically and mentally respectively today... and when you consider they both were playing 500-600 miles away on Wednesday and probably didn?t return until yesterday, I?m not surprised with their performances... but again, Moyes could have played others. Howard clearly was at fault for the goal and that?s all Allardyce needs to go into his 9-1 formation. Pienaar was way off his normal level, his first touch was poor, as was his movement.

We will undoubtedly get to that top quality playing level required to push us into CL contention... but, to actually challenge for it, we need to turn it around quickly and I still feel we?ll have some issues over the next few August games. Wolves will come with a defensive formation to Goodison, and Villa are always tough at Villa Park (particularly after their good start today).

Charles King
15   Posted 14/08/2010 at 17:30:43

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Worse thing about the result is I'm not disappointed because I'm not surprised.

Read the live comments on TW its worrying that the same stuff appears to be happening regarding the cautious approach to games.

Where's the innovation?
Tony Hale
16   Posted 14/08/2010 at 17:33:10

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Oh. Fuck. Off!

Season barely kicked off and already being written off. Maybe we should of let in six again and give everyone something to REALLY worry about!

Opening day really means nothing. Are Tottenham gonna draw every game? No. Are Blackpool gonna beat all their opponants 4-0? No. Are every team in the premiership gonna win ALL of their games that they SHOULD win? No. And that's what makes football interesting otherwise it'd be boring! It's frustrating but I suggest everyone takes it on the chin and looks to the next game cos writing the team off doesn't help anyone
Kunal Desai
17   Posted 14/08/2010 at 17:44:24

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I'm getting sick and tired of watching Osman in this side!
Saha looks disinterested and needs dropping.
Put Gueye and Beckford in the starting line up against Wolves please Moyes!
Chad Schofield
18   Posted 14/08/2010 at 17:18:18

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Silly mistake for the goal, but we were completely outplayed in the middle and resorted to punting into the general direction of their box. Pienaar failed to show up at all, Arteta was kept under pressure and it showed, Fellaini isn't fit yet and Cahill, Saha and later Beckford had no chance (other than the one Saha wildly struck high and wide from the edge of the box) as the defence, who did quite well other than looking a bit nervy, punted the ball for their defence to absorb too many times.

It was a shame they scored the goal when they did, but we need to be a lot, lot sharper and be able to break teams down when they defend like that ? by playing (not just in the last 5 mins).
Joeynkoo Ludden
19   Posted 14/08/2010 at 17:51:07

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24-year rule ey? It will take longer than that for Neville, Osman and Howard to win anything. Good job we got Rodwell to sign a new contract, would have missed him not being wasted on the bench....
Nathan Ward
20   Posted 14/08/2010 at 17:46:11

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We were too obvious in nearly every way.

Too weak, too slow and too lethargic.

The most worrying thing for me was Beckford. Looked totally out of his depth, didn't try to put the effort in and seemed to be a 3rd Division player who thinks he's made it.

However it isn't the end of the world... Yet.
Chris Jones
21   Posted 14/08/2010 at 17:46:14

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The bottom line is Howard's mistake cost us the game, but we never looked able to turn them over even though there were 75 minutes left after the opener.

Can't understand why Bily doesn't play instead of Ossie. He's not a wide player, as we've witnessed on too many occasions. Play Billy and if he doesn't perform then drop him - but at least give him the chance. Same with Coleman.

My biggest gripe is the forward line. I'm not the Yak's biggest fan but he gives us a focal point, I honestly think Louis is finished, perhaps he's the one we should flog? Beckford looked good when he played up front on his own because he stretched teams and gave the midfield at Leeds (and Everton pre-season) time to play.

Time to take risks ? what the fuck have we got to lose?
Andy Crooks
22   Posted 14/08/2010 at 17:52:13

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We have lost the opening game of the season. It is an Everton tradition. Not as bad as 4-0 to Arsenal. Blackburn will give trouble to many teams this year. It seems to me that we will be ok. This is a game I thought we would lose but we will be back, this was a much needed kick in the arse.
Dave Smith
23   Posted 14/08/2010 at 18:03:46

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Oh no. Everton have lost, so sack the board. Moyes is useless. It's Neville, Osman and/or Hibbert's fault.

"Same shit, different season" ? Works for ToffeeWeb as well. Call me old fashioned, but I would like us to have a couple of more games under our belt before I make any judgements just yet.
Mike Green
24   Posted 14/08/2010 at 18:06:30

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Walked out the house after final score saying "For fuck's sake...!", just come in after walking it off saying "Bollocks" so I think it's sinking in.

Thing that pisses me off about it most is Fucking Sam Head Up Sir Alex Ferguson's Arse Horrible Horribe Horrible Football has done us over, for the 2nd time on the opening day in 3 years. Pisses me off.

Moyes, me, me Mum, me Mum's dog and the rest of the fucking world have been saying that we need to get off to good start and we lose to fucking Sam Fucking Allardyce. Pisses me off.

So. Going to put it down to one of these things. Need to kick Wolves' arses next week now to get the ball rolling.

COYB!
Nick Entwistle
25   Posted 14/08/2010 at 18:25:19

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Other than Distin, the starting XI was the first choice team two years ago. All the new signings last year and this, who have taken the team forward (supposedly) were on the bench. So all the inspiration and reinvigoration was parked bums down in the dug out.
Fortunately Wolves should be 3 points guaranteed at Goodison. Don't want to to see who we've got after that.
Alan McGuffog
26   Posted 14/08/2010 at 18:28:15

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Ain't it a bugger when we have to actually play, and the season begins. It was all so promising a month or two ago.......we were looking strong and the shite were going to hell in a handcart !
Looks like the natural order of things will continue, I'm sorry to say.
Still, some of our lads can't half twat the bloody thing a long way...
Tom Bowers
27   Posted 14/08/2010 at 18:18:31

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What a bullshit performance. Started with the awful shirts and then Moyses's stubborn team selection with the pedestrian tried and tested underachievers. Right from the off, we were on the back foot. Where was the motivation?

How can anyone leave out Johnny Heitinga for the likes of weak-kneed Osman??? It's an injustice and even when Blackburn lost their key man early on, we still looked awful... and we still have to play Blackpool twice!!!!!!.

Moyes has no guts. We needed speed to take the game to Blackburn from the first whistle but Moyes went for the usual containment and it backfired yet again. Were all these players fit? If so, we are in for a lousy season.

Colin Noon
28   Posted 14/08/2010 at 18:27:39

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Panic Stations, lads?? Hardly. Let's look at this logically, which I understand can be a bit tough after building up our team only to see them be bullied by a Blackburn side that will be in this division next season regardless of the fact that they are clueless when it comes to actually playing football... hoofball?? YOU BETCHA!

1) When do we ever start well?
2) Blackpool top of the leauge after a 4-0 away win.
3) We WILL improve 100%

Let's consider all of the above, and please no silly comments about "we are just not good enough" & " if Neville/Hibbert/Osman ' playing we would've won".

Oh, and Nathan Ward (19), who posted: "The most worrying thing for me was Beckford. Looked totally out of his depth, didn't try to put the effort in and seemed to be a 3rd Division player who thinks he's made it"

GIVE HIM A FUCKIN CHANCE, LAD. You sound like a kopite.

My advice is this: Don't panic.
Anthony Millington
29   Posted 14/08/2010 at 18:37:49

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There are a lot of questions to be asked about today... like why, when we did so badly away last season, does Moyes continue to play with Saha upfront when he can't hold the ball up? Why is Beckford brought on to get us back into the game when we have proven goalscorers like Yakubu sat on the bench? And I also believe that if Beckford is going to be given game time then James Vaughan should be given his chance because he puts a bigger shift in for the team and has proven a good impact sub in the past on the rare occassions he has been brought on because of his workrate and pace.

Also why is Heitinga still not back playing yet? And a final point, why did Moyes start with Osman outwide when it is blatantly obvious to everyone but Moyes that he is very ineffective on outwide after we've spend £10 million on Bilyaletdinov to play in that position? Nevermind, it's still early days and with the squad we've got Moyes has a difficult job to find his strongest eleven, let's beat Wolves next week!
Andy Crooks
30   Posted 14/08/2010 at 18:38:33

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Tom, I think Heitinga wasn't fully fit. Also, I don't think Blackburn deserved 3 points. It has been my view for some time that David Moyes is vastly over-rated, but, for fuck's sake it's one game. I will criticise the coach and the chairman but not today.

When the season starts we need to give the team a chance. It was not the line-up I would have picked but I have no doubt that this is a blip. All will be well. We will win a cup and/or qualify for the Europa League. That will do for me and those who expected more are deluded. Look what DM was given to spend.

Kevin Tully
31   Posted 14/08/2010 at 18:42:05

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Just back from the game, it was a dire 0-0 except for the howler from Howard. We basically lacked any movement, and were poor down the right and left flanks. There was no sharpness or snappy passing. This was not the fault of Neville or Osman, to blame these two for the whole performance is ridiculous. All got a five or six for me, bar Howard, who gets a 3!
Karl Jones
32   Posted 14/08/2010 at 18:48:20

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We're desperately missing a wide player and have been for years now. Each summer I hope we'll sign a class winger, but it never happens. Donovan showed the difference this can make last season.

Charles N zogbia would be a superb signing..If Pienaar and Yakubu want out, sell 'em and lets get this lad on board. All the top sides have these type of players.
Christopher McCullough
33   Posted 14/08/2010 at 18:53:31

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Andy #21. I agree entirely. Particularly, with the 'kick up the arse' bit. It's happened before; at least this time there were no injuries, while the likes of Fellaini need a few games.
Terry McLavey
34   Posted 14/08/2010 at 18:59:51

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I'll wait to see MotD before I pass any judgement, at least I only have to record the last 5 mins. It was a bit worrying pre-season people scoring with the backs of their heads until we met Wolfsburg, a bit like England thinking they are world beaters when they beat countries no-one has heard of. Anyway at least City (the NEW hate target) didn't do so well. Good to hear from you all again!!
Ray Robinson
35   Posted 14/08/2010 at 19:06:21

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No width, no pace ? no goals, no change.
Steve Higham
36   Posted 14/08/2010 at 19:02:21

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Have just finished my tea and finally calmed down after watching that performance this afternoon. I know it is only the first game, and we all know Captain Pip plays every game... but why does Davey persist in playing Osman wide right? When will Davey learn? I am trying to keep everything in perspective but I feel so let down this evening. From now on, let's do our talking on the pitch ? starting with Wolves next Saturday.
Dan Brierley
37   Posted 14/08/2010 at 19:03:09

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Osman or Neville didn't put a foot wrong. It was Arteta, Pienaar and Fellaini that seemed to be giving the ball away more than anyone else.

Anybody who is expecting Neville or Osman to win games by themselves are dreaming. It's the three mentioned above who should be adding the extra bit of class to break down defenses. Overall, a poor display from the whole team. We tried playing football on the deck, and Blackburn played the defensive/hoofball tactics and won.
James Stewart
38   Posted 14/08/2010 at 19:13:57

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The worrying thing for me was not the result but the tactics. We were far too narrow and, unless that is addressed, we are going to struggle to break any team down. Once again no width whatsoever.
Chris Butler
39   Posted 14/08/2010 at 19:09:19

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At the end of the day, all this shite about "I'd be happy if the transfer window ended tomorrow" clearly like many sane supporters have been saying we do.

Again, whoever told me that our midfielders have clearly defined roles are obviously talking nonsense. We lack any creativity in the side or someone that can take defenders on. Saha looked his usual useless self when Moyes untilizes him like that.

I still think we need to changes in the side. We need a striker and an attacking midfielder as Cahill is not a striker.

Rob Murphy
40   Posted 14/08/2010 at 19:17:08

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We're out of the relegation zone, thanks to Chelsea!
Steve Higham
41   Posted 14/08/2010 at 19:17:35

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Dan, where you at the same game as me? Osman constantly drifted into the middle of the park giving no width. I am not having a go at Osman, he is not a wide midfield player. The whole balance of the team was wrong today.
Sean Keigher
42   Posted 14/08/2010 at 19:05:58

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Agree with Karl #32 if Pienaar & the Yak's heart isn't in it, get rid asap so they can be replaced before Sept 1.

Blackburn away is a game we should be winning if we are to have any aspirations of competing for a top 4 place. It's irrelevant whether it's the opening day, mid season or final day.

Moyes has to become more adventurous with his team selection if we are to progress, he has to give Coleman, Rodwell & Beckford a chance. I know it's only 1 game in and maybe he will give them a chance in the next few weeks but there is no point trying to change it 10 or 15 games in when it's too late.

We have to hit the ground running and the team needs to be tinkered with early doors. 4-5-1 at home against the likes of Wolves will not be acceptable this season. Moyes's team selection today did not inspire confidence. I hope he proves me wrong and proves it soon ? starting next week against Wolves.

We have to let the rest of the league know what we are about from the off... no excuses.
Ian Barker
43   Posted 14/08/2010 at 19:55:31

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Silly as it sounds, Anichebe could be really important playing wide his year, his power (rather than pace is really important). He is now comfortably the most direct wide player we have and that will help.

I can't believe people still think 4-4-2 is the option, an attacking 4-5-1 is so much more preferable with Cahill, Pienaar and Anichebe playing forward of Saha. We need the 5 to not be a man down in midfield against Wolves!!

Not many teams will get a result at Ewood Park ? we live, we learn we move on!
Andy Crooks
44   Posted 14/08/2010 at 20:00:49

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Sean, I wasn't aware that the Yak wanted out. I'd certainly have him in instead of Saha. If Pienaar's ability was one tenth of what he thinks he's worth then he might make a Championship player.
Michael Coville
45   Posted 14/08/2010 at 19:53:12

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Well it is only the first game but 6-1 or 1-0 against us is still three points lost. The team selection was made with a draw as the most likely result... and so it would have been if we had not made our typical defensive blunder.

The problem we have with today's team is that it lacks pace and that is what you need to break down a defense like Blackburn's. Not sure if Coleman is injured but he was not even on the bench today. I would like to see both Rodwell and Coleman given an extended run to see how they perform.

Carl Moulton
46   Posted 14/08/2010 at 20:26:43

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How about some of the Moyes haters stop blaming him, Hibbert and Osman every time we lose and look at the fact that man for man we should have torn that Blackburn side a new ring. We have top draw players in Arteta, Pienaar and Fellaini who did not deliver and that is why we lost. Simple.
Peter Askins
47   Posted 14/08/2010 at 20:35:45

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The wide player that we are all clamouring for may be Craig Bellamy. Don't get me wrong, I've heard nothing, and I certainly don't have a source, but just idly checking Sky's football transfer betting, Everton are suddenly tonight quoted as even money favourites to sign Bellamy. This may be a mistake, or alternatively it may be perfectly accurate, in response to some big "knowledgeable" punts. Any opinions ?
Andy Crooks
48   Posted 14/08/2010 at 20:53:21

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Peter , if true I'd be very happy. I think he'd be just what is needed.
Carl Moulton
49   Posted 14/08/2010 at 20:51:05

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I'm not sure about Bellamy myself because he is almost 32 and, more to the point, he is a horrible little sod. I don't think we will see a new striker at Goodison before the window closes though. I think Yak will be on his way after being left out today...
Will Leaf
50   Posted 14/08/2010 at 20:51:14

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I have to say I was somewhat down before the match after seeing Joe Hart put in an astounding performance against Spurs.

If indeed we could have had Hart on the cheap, it made Howard's howler all the more hard to bear.

Still, we can right the ship against Wolves. Not yet panic stations by any means.
Peter Fearon
51   Posted 14/08/2010 at 20:59:26

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I watched Tim Howard for the USA against Brazil and he looked less than his best for the 45 minutes he played. Apart from the 6,000-mile round trip prior to the start of the season, it wouldn't surprise me if he is also carrying an undisclosed injury. I wouldn't mind seeing him rested for the Wolves and Huddersfield games.

More importantly, Beckford should start alongside Saha, with Gueye and Rodwell also given starts next time out. Enough with the lone-striker crap. Did it ever work? I thought what Moyes said about the Blackburn game was typically complacent. We looked exactly like a team that plays in pink.

Jamie Crowley
52   Posted 14/08/2010 at 21:00:00

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Carl - and all those claiming Moyes-hating status:
David Moyes is easily one of the best managers in the Premier League. He's worked absolute wonders at the Club and I for one would have not one other manager leading Everton.

But...

It isn't hating if you're constantly frustrated with team selection. He does continually go back to the same old players, and it IS frustrating. Can anyone honestly say Osman should be playing out wide in the opener? Repeat for emphasis: in the opener? He continually drifted in and as many ahead of me have pointed out we had no width. There's no way Osman should be given the nod in the starting 11 when everyone is healthy.

This is the season to take a shot. For bold moves and decisions to be made. Not to have Leon Osman out wide! He is not a bad player at all. He has his place in the squad and can contribute.

But for the love of God, not today.

Degrading this critical analysis to "Moyes bashing" is disingenuous. I absolutely love Moyes. But he has to stop this back-to-the-well approach and start to take some real bold steps and moves.

It was, unequivocally, the same shit all over again.

Please, please throw Coleman, Gueye, Anichebe, RODWELL (!), Bily... anyone out there and make some adjustments for next week, Mr Moyes!

We didn't play all that bad. But this is a common trend with team and player selection by the Manager that just has to stop.

Can you really disagree with that? If so, how? Christ man, it's plain as day!

Tony Dove
53   Posted 14/08/2010 at 20:51:24

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We (the Moyes doubters) already know by his team selection today that the Club is going to blow its best chance for years of finishing in the top 4 or better. Moyes has assembled a potentially really good squad but unless he undergoes a seismic change of mindset we won't achieve anything.
Dave Smith
54   Posted 14/08/2010 at 20:50:41

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I forgot to mention.... had Coleman been playing, he'd have got a hat-trick and we would have won.

Get it together Moyes!!!!

Seriouly though, if Pienaar played anywhere near as good as he can, Osman on the right wouldn't have been big problem. But a viable option on the right is needed. It is still early days though.
Charles King
55   Posted 14/08/2010 at 20:48:44

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@Pete Askins

I'd have Bellamy in a heartbeat simply cos the lad can play and is'nt frightened, 2 things this side could do with.

When I've seen his interviews he's a strong character but I believe he'd respond to Moyes and get the fans going.

Plus he's the sort to give a few home truths to the shrinking violets who play when it suits.
Michael Kenrick
56   Posted 14/08/2010 at 21:09:08

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Jamie, for the second time on this thread, I am compelled to underline everything you are saying about Moyes's continuing failings. (Well... with the exception of playing Anichebe ? he's injured!)

It's odd to the point of bemusement that the Moyes acolytes (I know, I know) get so bent out of shape when the truth dares to speak it's name on here. Andy Crooks is right: critical analysis is being hounded out... but in this instance it is entirely 100% justified.

How many of us looked at that team selection and cried, "Same old, same old.."? I certainly did. Even yesterday, we were informed that Moyes is still learning... EIGHT FUCKING YEARS into the job! Well, on today's evidence, he's learnt nothing.

"We've seen it hundreds of times under Moyes." ? I'd be astounded if the massed ranks of Moyes Apologists on here can deny that. (Of course, now they will...)

Chris Butler
57   Posted 14/08/2010 at 21:20:46

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Frankly it's simple: Evertonians are fickle frankly certain supporters will hound Howard and then come on here later in the year and praise him. He made a mistake, we all do each and every day. Unless signings are made, we will not be able to compete with Manchester City, Spurs and Liverpool. If we do not sign a striker and an attacking midfielder, we'll finish 8th.
Gerry Western
58   Posted 14/08/2010 at 21:27:08

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Mike, No 2:
That's got to be one of the most bizarre posts I've read here. "Not the end of the world just yet" You then go on to state on the back of one result that we won't be winning any trophies. Something of a contradiction, don't you think?
Jamie Crowley
59   Posted 14/08/2010 at 21:26:22

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Michael -

I looked at 3 of my 5 kids in the room with me watching the game when the line-up popped up on the screen and said - "What?"

I was dumbfounded.

I actually used the magic of modern day TV, rewound and paused on the line-up to see if what I saw was actually acurate.

Then I quickly fast-forwarded to catch the match live.... left 90 odd minutes later still scratching my head.
Carl Moulton
60   Posted 14/08/2010 at 21:20:17

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Michael, I looked a the team selection and thought it was our strongest team with the exception of Johnny for Distin and playing arteta out of position on the right to bring Rodwell in. Coleman's time will come. I would hate to think where Everton woud be without Moyes.
Joeynkoo Ludden
61   Posted 14/08/2010 at 21:51:12

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Carl your post is crazy. Let's ignore for a second that the team selected was FAR from our strongest, but you then underline your point by mentioning the 'exceptions', which according to your flattering opinion of Mmoyes, still amounted to 30% of the team!!
Peter Askins
62   Posted 14/08/2010 at 21:58:02

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The odds on Bellamy joining Everton have now been updated on Skybet, and frozen until 9a.m tomorrow ........

http://www.oddschecker.com/football/football-specials/craig-bellamy-specials/club-after-summer-transfer-window

.......which makes me wonder if somebody really does know something, and has placed a substantial bet.

Or, somebody at Skybet is hugely incompetent / having a laugh. Delete as appropriate !

Bellamy would be a good signing, in my opinion, although his alleged £80,000 per wage wage might be a stumbling block, as well as City's reluctance to sell to Everton.
David Hallwood
63   Posted 14/08/2010 at 21:33:23

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Last season we were coming up to Christmas and we were relegation candidates. Now THAT's the time to panic. However even though I'm a Moyes supporter (Acolyte? FFS Michael that makes me sound like John the Baptist), he must realise that wide right is a problem, and none of the squad look good in the position. The solution is to buy a wide player or adapt the formation to the players he?s got.

A lot of teams are playing 4-2-3-1, and we?ve got the players for that formation; the 2 holding mids could be either Heitinga/Fellani/Rodwell (Rodwell got MotM for his display in that position for the U21s this week). The width is provided by the full back which would have to be Coleman, and he would always be covered by one of the holding mids.

To my mind, the biggest worry is Saha, who since he?s signed the big contract, has been playing with his slippers on, and none of our midfielders are prolific scorers. Ahh there?s nothing like a new season to dent your optimism.
Tony Rice
64   Posted 14/08/2010 at 22:03:11

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I'm pissed off at myself more than anything... I know better than to get caught up in all of this pre-season optimism. (This is Everton after all!) What a shocking performance / effort to start the season!
Jay Woods
65   Posted 14/08/2010 at 22:16:06

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Dark horses for the top 4? More like cart horses!!!

We'll never get anywhere fettering / leaving out attacking talent like Coleman and playing hoofball merchants like Neville. Moyes is great at motivation, great at coaching players, and great at finding new talent. But he's truly horrible at organising an attacking setup.
Carl Moulton
66   Posted 14/08/2010 at 22:10:53

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Joeynkoo, What is our strongest team and how is changing two payers 30% of 11? I don't have a flattering opinion of Moyes, who do you think could have done a better job with the lack of finances he has had? The fact that we can even have a debate about finishing in the top four after the money Villa, Spurs and City are chucking at it is proof that David Moyes is a great manager.
Dick Fearon
67   Posted 14/08/2010 at 22:03:17

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For all of the first half and until desperation kicked in, a goodly part of the second we played without any kind of right side. What does Osman have that makes him Moyes go-to man? It can't be speed of foot or thought or shooting power or heading ability or strength in the tackle or creativity or excellent distribution or positional sense. If it is none of those things, what in hell's name is it that only Moyes and it seems no-one else can see.
Brendan O'Doherty
68   Posted 14/08/2010 at 22:12:21

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After today's goalkeeping blunder, it's ironic to note that Shay Given is probably going to be available for transfer, especially after Joe Hart's performance today. If only.....

We lost the game today because of a goalkeeping error. How predictable that the Moyes bashers are blaming him, Osman, Neville,and anything or anybody that doesn't take their fancy. No-one is blaming Arteta, Fellaini, etc. The team/squad selection was made with fitness levels/ the opposition in mind. When we win, it's in spite of Moyes.

Normal service resumed on TW then.
Andy Peers
69   Posted 14/08/2010 at 22:10:14

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A response I made on another mail thread titled Fight , Fight , Fight, Post #33 stated that I couldn't wait to see our starting line-up but was very apprehensive.

Well at 6:30 am this morning, the line-up was announced (I live in California so we are 8 hours behind) and I turned to my girlfriend and said we are going to draw at best or more than likely lose.

45 minutes later, we were 1-0 down and to be honest we never looked dangerous or like we wanted to win. My girlfriend is not a football fan and has always been curious about how I can see our line-up and predict what the result is going to be. I have watched pretty much every game home or away last season on TV and feel that I can see why we seem so lame at times by team selection.

We lost today so any stupid reason to defend the team that was selected has now gone out the window. Heitinga has to be paired with Jags, Coleman for sure especially watching those pathetic crosses from Neville.

Fellaini was poor today and needs match fitness; Pienaar was off the pace also. Saha is looking like one of the French National Team Players that just quit but is still on the pitch!! Howard's mistake can be forgiven as he has saved our ass a lot and cannot be condemned for the rest of the team not able to put 2 goals in against Blackburn.

One last point I would like to make:, before the Everton game, I was up at 4:30 am to watch Spurs against City and I am so glad we didn't play Spurs today as we might have been beaten 6-0. They were quick, skillful and should've beaten City at least 4-0 except for Joe Hart.

Derek Thomas
70   Posted 14/08/2010 at 22:27:26

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TOO, too much respect to the opposition, too much loyaltiy to the old hands, too many times now we have seen Moyes's default setting, keep it tight and pinch one, used as plan A, where it should be plan Z, if that.

One game and a keeper's mistake, ok that's your 'get out of jail' card used up.

One swallow doesn't make a summer etc, I am a bit of a doubter (it goes with the name) but from where I stand the Emperor seems to have no clothes, is it a trick of the light or am i seeing the light?

You can get away once on a nice summer's day with walking around bollocko, but if it carries on it will be a long cold winter... and discontent? You ain't seen nothing yet.
Jay Harris
71   Posted 14/08/2010 at 22:18:18

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I will try to park my emotions at losing 3 points to a team we should look to batter if we are to do anything serious this year and try to be objective:

1. I have always said Moyes and his management team are the professionals so we should back their ability and believe in them but to continue to play Ossie wide right just to give him a game is shortsighted in the extreme. This game was crying out for some width and quality and was an ideal opportunity, in the absense of Anichebe and Coleman, to give Gueye a run out.

2. Although Tim Howard dropped a clanger (literally), they are the sort of setbacks we would normally roll our sleeves up and overcome but today there was no real spirit or togetherness evident. Too many players looked as if they had never played together.

3. Apart from Fellaini MF, especially Mikey were not looking for the ball at all and all too often we reverted to Jags hoofing it up to their defenders. We do not play hoofball well as has been proven last year when we kept the ball on the ground and looked a different team.

4. Substitutions were made too late. It was obvious in the first 15 minutes that Ossie was not working out and Cahill was not his usual self.

5. The substitutions were weird. We're losing 1-0 and he takes Saha off and then plays Beckford on his own when we needed to be really bold.

I know this is only one game and the league is a marathon not a sprint but all the pre-season optimism and spirit has been drained by a totally anaemic performance the likes of which we haven't seen since 2009.
Mike Green
72   Posted 14/08/2010 at 22:41:59

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I've properly calmed down now.

We got beat 1-0 by Blackburn (by due of a goalkeeping error) away today. It'll be a tough place to go for everyone due to the approach of their horrible fuck of a manager.

They'll be reasons for the team selection. Highlights again the need for a right winger (personally I think Bily's fucking hopeless on the wing so don't think that's the answer)

Either way, so what. We're still going to win the league.

IMWT.

(A Moyes Affirmist.)
Brendan O'Doherty
73   Posted 14/08/2010 at 22:55:22

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Well said Mike. Spoken like a true Evertonian.
Andy Crooks
74   Posted 14/08/2010 at 22:56:51

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Mike Green, as a Moyes doubter, not hater, I have to say that apart from the last line of your post you sum it up perfectly. Brendan, I actually agree with you. We didn't lose because of Osman, we lost because of a goalkeeping error. It happens.
Charles King
75   Posted 14/08/2010 at 23:03:10

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Well said Mike. Spoken like a true Evertonian

(Who's had more than a wee nip or two...)

Sorry boys, only joking......just could'nt resist
Brendan O'Doherty
76   Posted 14/08/2010 at 23:08:07

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Yes, Andy. And at least you, who are a confirmed Moyes critic/doubter, aren't jumping on the bandwagon after one game of the season. Fair play.
Chris Leyland
77   Posted 14/08/2010 at 23:09:18

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Oh the irony. Michael Kenrick writes:

How many of us looked at that team selection and cried, "Same old, same old.."?

He could just have easily have written. "How many of us logged onto Toffeweb and read Michael et al's coments and though same old, same old?"

Sometimes reading the forum is like groundhog day.

They usual it is "Neville and Osman's fault we lost" bollocks. The typically insulting "Moyes apologist" jibe for supporters who actually rate the manager.

The clamour for Coleman, as if he is the answer to all our prayers.

"When will Moyes learn" shite about starting with the same players as last year. The side, which incidentally lost just twice in the league in 2010. Why on earth would you start with these players?

I, like most of the more level headed posters above, will reserve judgement until after a few more games.
Brendan O'Doherty
78   Posted 14/08/2010 at 23:20:35

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That's OK Charles.

I had to have a couple myself this evening to help get over the disappointment, as I'm sure Mike did.

It's amazing what difference a few hours of calm reflection can do, rather than venting your spleen straight after the final whistle...
James Kerfoot
79   Posted 14/08/2010 at 23:42:11

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I've got to say that although today's loss was disappointing it's far too early for the Moyes haters to start crawling out of the woodwork. The thing which does frustrate me about Moyes though is his insistence on playing his 'old faithful' regardless of the visual evidence that they are clearly weak links in the team.

The team for next week's game drastically needs shaking up, and although I would stick with Neville at RB due to Coleman's inexperience, Osman simply doesn't warrant a place in the team. The fact that we have Rodwell running the show playing for the U21s and tied up on a 5-year deal, it beggers belief as to how he doesn't start for us. If Moyes is fearing a 'burnout' then why is he letting him play in England fixtures days before the opening game of the season?

Bring on next week and let's hope Moyes mixes things up....COYB!

Robert Daniels
80   Posted 14/08/2010 at 23:37:50

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Chris the team that finnished the season and looked hard to beat, had Johnny sitting in the holding role.

Let's face it, we were always on for a kicking today and DM must be able to see this, but he plays a half-fit Fellaini and Osman wide right, Pienaar didn't look fit, were was he midweek? Cahill was none existent and Arteta, yes Arteta didn't once try and run into the box with the ball, he just took the easy option of passing it sideways or to Saha who had three men on him at times.

Moyes must be able to see this, but didn't change it again until it was too late.
The writing was on the wall yesterday when Osman said were going to play them off the park on the ground, thus telling Big Sam that Osman was playing or he wouldn't of said it, and Big Sam rubbing his hands at the thought of us sending a team that was void of the likes of Rodders, Johnny etc. a team that would be bossed about all too easily.

Arteta, Osman, Pienaar, Cahill (looked knackered) half-fit Fellaini... how were they ever gonna compete with Sam's Dogs of War, when Mr World Cup Finalist can't even get a game,
'Ave a pair of balls, Davey, for fucks sake!

Robert Daniels
81   Posted 15/08/2010 at 00:08:30

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By the way, just thought I wouldn't let howard off either, everytime someone takes along range shot at him, I worry. He's a liability. People say he's the best goalie we've had since Nigel, and before him Nev, that's not a compliment, it's a statement at how bad the rest have been in-between. Remember his comical way he panicked when that towering centre-forward stood next to him, in the derby? Kuyt had him shitting his pants just by standing by him... Liability.
Andy Crooks
82   Posted 15/08/2010 at 00:15:18

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Robert, today's mistake by Tim Howard wasn't a symptom of a poor goalkeeper, it was a simple fucking howler. Look at the goalkeepers in the premier league , I would suggest that the standard is the worst in 70 years.
In that period Britain has produced magnificent goalkeepers. There isn't a decent goalkeeper in the premier league(Hart might change that). If Tim Howard's error is what stands between us and success then we are in trouble. Same goes for Leon Osman, played out of position once again. Consign today's result to history, it was some improvement on last year. Let's move on and save the stick till we play like Wigan . I am still miserable but one game doesn't make us shite.
Trevor Lynes
83   Posted 15/08/2010 at 00:16:45

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If you play with a 5 man midfield and a lone striker then you MUST score first otherwise the tactic must be changed ASAP. Just a comment... the new kid who played for Villa looked first class.

I'm sure we will play a much more attacking side for our home games. Maybe give one or two of the new boys a chance!!

Mike Allison
84   Posted 14/08/2010 at 23:50:16

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Some ridiculous over-reaction to a 1-0 away defeat that was essentially down to a single error. I knew there'd be someone saying 'I told you so' about Howard, I vaguely remember the post. Howard has been consistent and reliable in the four years since he joined us, and today is not typical, but a rare aberration. Probably for the first time since he joined us, Tim Howard is predominantly responsible for a defeat. He gave the goal away, it was the only goal of the game, so it was the difference.

The most disappointing thing though has to be Neville at right back and Osman starting. If that is the best we have, our first choice, then we haven't progressed at all and all our optimism seems misplaced. As was said above, these players aren't 'to blame' and they should have a role in the squad over the course of the season, but we must feel we can do better than that, even if its for the second half at 1-0 down (although Coleman wasn't even on the bench, Hibbert was).

The truest thing that can be said though is that we'll have much more of a clue after 10, or even 5, games than we have now.

Please forgive the slightly odd order of this post as I've been reading all 77 posts as I've written it, so I have a few other points:

Why all the moaning about one up front? Everybody plays one up front, it's not negative, it's just a different way of attacking. I feel like this has been argued so many times. Runners from deep are harder to mark, and you also get more of the ball in midfield with one out and out striker so you have more opportunity to attack. Our possession today, for all the moaning about hoofing it, was 58% and we had 9 shots on target to Blackburn's 2.

There's not a right lot wrong with us, but today's wasn't a good enough performance, and whether they played badly or not, Neville and Osman play in two areas of the field where we can definitely improve. This is the time to be bold. Sure, Coleman might not score a hat-trick if he plays, but nor will the world blow up and we concede 17 goals from the opposition's left winger.The point is that it's worth a try of something different, becuase it's not like everything we've built up will tumble like a house of cards if it doesn't come off immediately.

I'm definitely a Moyes backer ('acolyte', 'apologist' whatever term you want to use that makes it obvious you watch too much Fox News) but I see his mistakes and conservatism and how they can be a problem, and there are things I wish he'd do differently, I just don't stamp my feet like a toddler when things don't go my way. I said this around Christmas last year and it didn't happen, so there's no reason to suspect it'll happen now, but winnable home games are where Coleman should be introduced into the first team, starting with Wolves on Saturday and Huddersfield in the Cup. This is an area where we can improve by next week, as two attacking full backs are very, very difficult for opponents to stop.

Robert Daniels
85   Posted 15/08/2010 at 00:31:30

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Andy, I didn't say we were shite, we played like shite! I think everyone now believes we've got a team there, but the manager must play them.

Johnny played for a team that made it to the World Cup Final, but he's obviously not good enough to play against the mighty Blackburn! Young Rodders is the future of England, but not as good as Osman? Bily cost £11 million but again not good enough to start against the wonders that are Blackburn...

It's called making tough decisions, leaving out your old faithfulls for the greater good of the team. DM doesn't seem capable of this, and this team will come together by default, ie Coleman etc, but it may take 8 or 9 games before that happens cos Davey hasn't got the bollicks to start with our best eleven.

And that's my worry, Andy, not the team... it's there, it's just playing them. We're eight years down the line and he's still afraid to do the right thing out of some misguided loyalty.

Nice guys come second, so they say. By the time we start to play our best team, imo it will be too late. We'll be 8 or 9 games in and it's catch-up time again. It can't happen this season or the team we have now will break up next year, we must play our best 11 all the time!

Andy Crooks
86   Posted 15/08/2010 at 00:54:40

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Robert, I agree with much of what you say and frankly, you have put me in a difficult position. I have , pre season, been critical of Moyes and his tactics, However, it is one game and I won't jump in with an over reaction. I think that Blackburn and their appalling attitude to football will hurt better teams than us. I am actually feeling a bit better after today. It was, as I said earlier, a kick in the arse which might bring some perspective.

We have played 100% in the past without quality. Today we played like a good side going to a bad team. We are not used to being the footballing side but when we add quality to endeavour we might just achieve something. Let's forget today and move on. It was a good result.

Brendan O'Doherty
87   Posted 15/08/2010 at 01:03:05

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"Johnny played for a team that made it to the World Cup Final, but he's obviously not good enough to play against the mighty Blackburn!"

Robert, are you seriously suggesting that DM didn't pick JH because he thought that he wasn't good enough to play against Blackburn? FFS get a grip. He wasn't selected due to the fact that he hasn't had much match time since he returned to training after his post-World Cup break.

"Bily cost £11 million but again not good enough to start against the wonders that are Blackburn,"

Bilya cost £9m. Stop putting his fee up. He has had a poor pre-season, so it is no wonder he wasn't given a starting berth. He doesn't merit one on present form.

"Davey hasn't got the bollicks to start with our best eleven, he's still afraid to do the right thing out of some misguided loyalty."

Whatever reasons DM had for selecting the team and squad that he did, not having the "bollicks", or being "afraid to do the right thing out of some misguided loyalty", aren't two of them.

As much as some people might criticise DM, being 'afraid' to do the right thing is not something that can be levelled against him. Stubbornness? Possibly. Fear? Absolutely not.
Dermot Ryan
88   Posted 15/08/2010 at 01:23:54

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Really annoying game, but thank god I don't have to support that Blackburn team! We are a team that can play really attractive football (and showed it for a 30 second spell in the first half -- did any of you catch that?) having a really shit game. But that is the way Blackburn play game in and game out.

Watched the Spurs/Man City game after watching that piece of muck. It was like they were playing in an entirely different league. I guess even great teams can get dragged into the mire by ones who insist on playing shit football, but I wish it didn't happen to us so often.

Liu Weixian
89   Posted 15/08/2010 at 04:19:42

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Kunal (#17), why are you blaming Saha? What did you expect him to do, when he is not the biggest of players, his teammates hoofed the ball to him and every time he got the ball he was faced with two big centrebacks and their brutish teammates? And he's barely had any real support up front!

Once again, when it comes to tactics, Moyes has shown that he is nowhere near the likes of Mourinho. It is glaringly obvious why we lost:

#1: Played hoof ball against a team that specializes in hoofing it, not to mention they have much bigger players too.

$2: Playing a defensively-minded 4-5-1 against a technically inferior side. We should have gone with two strikers up front. Saha was left on his own with little support and two big Blackburn centrebacks for company; no wonder he looked jaded. The Yak should have partnered him. At least we would have a real target man to aim the ball at.
We had Felliani, Cahill, Arteta in the middle of the park, with Osman on the right and Pienaar on the left.





This means we played with no natural wingers and to make things worse, the five in midfield tended to cluster-fuck in/near the centre. We had no real width to stretch Blackburn.

#3: Osman and Neville. Why were they even in the starting lineup? Neville's crossing was shite as usual, and Osman was completely useless. He is a substandard version of Joe Cole and if anyone wanted to buy him, I would shake his hand off and use the money to get Donovan.

#4: Overly elaborate passing. Against Blackburn, who had most of their men back in their own half after their goal, we should have stretched their defence by exerting pace on the wings. Sadly, we didn't do that and we kept passing the ball in midfield and on the occasions when the ball was on the flanks, we failed to deliver good crosses. All the passing around on the flanks really irritated me. A real winger would have driven the ball quickly. We played like this when we lost the derby last season and Moyes has not learnt his lesson.

#5: Bily. We looked more effective when Bily came on and Osman went off. Pienaar switched to the right and Bily, despite his apparent lack of pace, actually made the left flank look more dangerous.

#6: Tim Howard. Clearly at fault for the goal. He failed to hold on to the ball, and his lousy footwork contributed to the ball spinning out of his grasp and BEHIND him. Southall he is not.

#7: Lop-sided formation. Almost all our attacks came from the left and the centre. What happened to our right? We played like a boxer who has only one arm.

Compare our performance to that of Spurs and Man Shitty game and we were clearly several leagues down their level. They kept the ball on the deck, had fast movement on and off the ball, and as a result, their attacking play was so much superior. We were lumping it forward aimlessly last night and that's a shame because surely, these highly paid professionals know how to pass a ball, yea?
James Crolla
90   Posted 15/08/2010 at 04:55:58

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Don't be too hard on Blackburn's tactics.

We all seem to forget that until recently we have been playing similar tactics (getting results despite shocking football)........

We need to adapt and beat teams that play different styles, we just seemed to forget this yesterday. We were crying out for width, pace and creativity. Unfortunately our team selection and tactics missed the point completely.

Re group and bring on next weekend. I think we actually needed a reality check (supporters and players), now lets work for results instead of believing the hype and expecting it be come on a plate.

COYB - 3 points against Wigan and lets start an Everton run which have been common place under Moyes, but at the start of the season please!!!!
Liu Weixian
91   Posted 15/08/2010 at 05:51:39

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James, I don't think anyone here is being overly harsh on Blackburn's tactics. They got their tactics spot on while we screwed up ours!
James Flynn
92   Posted 15/08/2010 at 06:17:00

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Just one loss. No doubt Chelsea fans are expecting the Trophy lifted tomorrow.

God, I'm not this way normally and so avoided this. But here it goes. LD can't cost THAT much. MLS knows so. To win the thing, we have to try as hard as every team with aspirations. Landon opens up the entire field.

He's a "Fuck you" arrogant little prick who's talented. Who else do we have with that attitude?

EFC will be right in there for sure. Saturday's game showed us continuing the end of last season. We out-played a team and came away with nothing.

That'll change here, right away. But Landon is the key. Work a deal, for God's sake. Galaxy has money to burn. They don'y need more.
Anthony Hughes
93   Posted 15/08/2010 at 08:08:18

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Yes, we didn't play well and there are many reasons/excuses but the fact is that our players are just not the world beaters some of you think they are. We are a good, regular top 10 team but some of the comments about finishing in the Champions League placings and even some lunatics claiming we'll win the league are so far off the mark.

I've read comment on here claiming we have the best midfield in the league, well I watched Chelsea and our midfield comes nowhere near, similar with Villa, pace, movement, creativity... We need to face up to it that fact.

As for Leon Osman, let's not get on his back, he plays to his best ability but he's not a fucking wide player and Moyes must wake up to the fact.

Norman Merrill
94   Posted 15/08/2010 at 08:25:39

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The side that Moyes put out did not have any threat from the right. I am not going to criticise the players, as he picks the team. How long before it hits him that it does not matter who you have upfront, Saha, Yakubu, Beckford, you must have some attacking options out wide other than Baines.
John Audsley
95   Posted 15/08/2010 at 08:12:58

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The thing we defo need is pace and creativity down the right, it's something we haven't had for along time and today totally summed it up. Ossie is a CM player not an option on the wing anymore (not for the last 5 years IMO) and Neville is Neville ?- end of!

Whether Vic or Anyone we can get in before the Transfer deadline can make the difference is yet to be seen but we are very weak on the right side and EVERY Premier League team knows that.

I'm still positive about the season but it's the same problems in the team. If you only play one striker (which we will all season) then width and creativity are a must.

LD would be one solution but we don't have the cash and the only way we will get it is by selling Pienaar which then creates exactly the same problem on the left.

My only critisicm of Moyes is that width has always been a problem and in 8 years we have never come close to solving it, oh and the fact that the team who played yesterday seemed to never have met each other...

Anyway, Wolves next, let's make the Old Lady roar and get the 3 points... which will be tricky as they are a very well drilled side.
David Hallwood
96   Posted 15/08/2010 at 10:19:55

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The other thing about Donovan is that he's a goalscorer ? somethingn that we haven't got (Cahill doesn't score enough). One up front can only work when midfielders are prepared to put a shift in. Against Blackburn, Baines put a peach of a cross for Saha who was in the box on his own, and we were behind.

Donovan looks like he's got 12-15 goals in him a season; go and buy him!
Joeynkoo Ludden
97   Posted 15/08/2010 at 11:21:10

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Carl (66) - most of the summer we have been discussing our strongest line-up on here, and I don't think anyone chose what Moyes did yesterday, but most of us feared he would stick with Neville and Osman.

Your post included 4 changes to our line-up, which is actually 36% of "exceptions" to Moyes's lineup (I am including Coleman in that by the way).

I stated pre-season what I think is our best line up. Isn't the 4-4-2 system dead now? 4-2-3-1 is the new pink. I'd play:
Mucha,
Baines, Jagielka, Heitinga, Coleman,
Fellaini, Rodwell
Pienaar, Cahill, Arteta
Saha

Now admittedly that's only 4 different starters, plus a different formation, but I think 36% is quite a high percentage of "exceptions" to have in your starting 11. Guess the result proved that also...
Paul Doyle
98   Posted 15/08/2010 at 11:08:21

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I would like to see Moyes grow a set of balls before the Wolves game. If he persists at accommodating players like Neville and Osman, who to be fair should have been sold after the Cup Final, and Cahill, who seems to be guaranteed a place whatever, then this will be another long slog.Why promote youth with the likes of Rodwell, Beckford and Coleman and then stick them on the bench?

We are a team with no pace and the only player with any pace (Rodwell) is on the bench to have Osman played out of position; we have a promising fullback who would have put Blackburn's left side on the back foot yet Coleman is not on the bench to make way for Hibbert. Moyes has been to loyal to all these and needs to be more ruthless and start bombing some of these out the door or we are in for the same old...

For Saturday, I hope Moyes makes the changes that we can all see from the stands and also sorts the Pienaar situation out once and for all ? sell the cunt or give him a reality check in the reserves.

Terry Mcloughlin
99   Posted 15/08/2010 at 00:53:37

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Well said, Robert: until Moyes stops picking his bum boys, it will be too late.
Max Main
100   Posted 15/08/2010 at 13:13:49

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Don't be too harsh on Blackburn's tactics? Are you fucking mental? Imagine having to support that load of shite.

Every single free-kick they get in their half is taken by Robinson and launched into the opposition's penalty area. Every throw-in further up the field is launched into the oppositions penalty area, after Pedersen has taken about a week and a half drying the ball so the talentless giants can lumber forward and try to wrestle the ball into the net.

They should be ashamed and embarrassed. They are not a football team, in fact they are everything that's wrong with modern day football.

There is shame in losing to Blackburn, but there is more shame in being Blackburn.

Ernie Baywood
101   Posted 15/08/2010 at 13:44:38

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In our defence... Ewood is a shit place to go at any time but early on in the season, with Blackburn's stop/start long ball/throw tactic it was always going to be hard for us to get our passing game going.

For the prosecution... Osman is always the wrong choice at right mid but even more so at Ewood. They defend with 10 so we needed width and/or pace to move them around and Osman gives neither. Nor does Neville. Fellaini should never have been in the side (I thought he was awful on the ball). Why play 2 strikers for a short period?

Nothing made sense... but it's still the same squad we all had high hopes for a couple of days ago. 37 games left to turn possession into goals.
James Stewart
102   Posted 15/08/2010 at 13:54:23

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Max, Spot on. Blackburn are an embarrassment... or rather Big Sam is. I hated watching Bolton during his time there and now Blackburn are even worse.
Tony J Williams
103   Posted 15/08/2010 at 14:11:10

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Yeah, imagine it Terry, that daft manager picking the same side that had gone on the longest unbeaten run since 1986, what madness is that?
Tony Cheek
104   Posted 15/08/2010 at 14:16:18

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Why didnt DM pick our best players? Is Coleman REALLY 3rd choice as rightback? Is Saha good enough to play lone striker? Is Howard better than Mucha?... a hell of a lot to think about before the Wolves game. First and foremost DM has to pick the best team... he did not do that against Blackburn.
Ciarán McGlone
105   Posted 15/08/2010 at 14:40:03

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"They should be ashamed and embarrassed"

------------------------

What utter tripe. Blackburn actually outplayed us. You suggest they should be embarassed at winning a game by employing a tactic we've been exponents of for the last 8 years is complete and utter crap.

If anybody should be embarrassed, it is us.

Moyes picked the wrong team and has shown yet again, that he's either too bloody stubborn or that he just doesn't learn from his mistakes. As Michaal said the other day... two steps forward, three back.

I'm not going to analyse the match, because there's far too much to cover... But to blame Blackburn for our failings, or to chastise them for their style, is utterly pathetic.
Dave Wilson
106   Posted 15/08/2010 at 13:37:01

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We didn't lose because of the team selection.
We lost because of a goalkeeping error.
We lost because our full backs offered no threat going forward.
We lost because our entire midfield lacked the pep and flair we are looking for.
We lost because Blackburn, having got their lead, did to us what we have been doing to other teams for years.
We lost because our best striker was completely out of sorts. We lost because, instead of trying to turn their big no nonsense defenders, we knocked meat and drink long balls to them ? the England center back doing so with depressing regularity.
We lost because when big ugly Blackburn stood defiantly in front of us, we were clean out of ideas.
We lost because nobody played as well as they could.

Moyes has got a decent squad here, he`ll need every single player between now and the end of the season. Yesterday was a bad day at the office, that's all; there will be more... but when I look at other "ambitious teams" ? not many of who will get any joy at Ewood this season ? I see nothing special.

My belief that we will finish top four remains undiminished.
Alan Clarke
107   Posted 15/08/2010 at 14:49:33

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Did a lot of you expect to win every game? I've given Moyes some stick in the past but most of the stuff on this thread is ridiculous. Blackburn are a tough team. We've always done well by building momentum and that was a horrible starting fixture. Had we started at home to Wolves then played Blackburn, I'm sure it would have been different. Still, in those sort of games you at least need to keep a clean sheet. Howard should be fined and dropped for that howler.
Eric Hardman
108   Posted 15/08/2010 at 14:13:03

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How anyone can continue to have anything positive to say about Moyes after this latest reminder of his massive limitations is beyond me. Team selection, tactics, substitutions and fitness all rubbish. Even the much vaunted so-called motivational skills have gone AWOL!

Moyes is not a winner and EFC will never be successful until we replace him with a winner. He may have saved us from the drop but do we now have to resign ourselves to everlasting mediocrity? As usual, his after-match comments were cringeworthy. I find it quite amusing that people are criticising Allardyce for aiming to do exactly the same as Moyes. At least Allardyce has a sense of humour! If we ever did get a sugar-daddy, Moyes would be the first to go.
Jamie Carroll
109   Posted 15/08/2010 at 15:01:12

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Tim Howard's mistake yesterday is even more highlighted than anything else as the rest of the team's letargic performance wasn't the "main talking point" ? and for that, Howard may feel unlucky. At least it's an improvement on 6-1 last season!
Andy Crooks
110   Posted 15/08/2010 at 17:25:20

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Cairan,you are absolutely spot on with your analysis. I'd have taken a win the Blackburn way.Eric Hardman, what you say is pertinent but an over reaction. By November we will know where we stand. In my view Moyes should have been replaced when he dithered over his contract. He wasn't and he's what we've got. Not nearly as good as some on the site think but not as bad as you suggest Eric.. Alan Clarke, who I would describe as a doubter, has made a decent point apart from the idea of fining Howard. Now, Alan, that is just silly.
Trevor Lynes
111   Posted 15/08/2010 at 18:26:35

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I reckon DM is influenced by the opposition too much and picks teams to compete rather than beat the likes of Blackburn away from home. I also believe he left Coleman out because he wanted the harder tackling fullback Hibbert on the bench to offset the muscular boys in the opposition team if need be. Unfortunately the tactics only work if you score FIRST and then just grind out a win or draw... once you go behind the tactics need to be changed immediately.

DM is a dour Scot with loyalty to the elder statesmen as he showed with Weir, Stubbs, Naysmith, Ferguson and now Cahill, Hibbert and Neville... he is still loath to play the kids and only injuries or a run of defeats will make him alter his selection plans.

He talks about our current crop of promising kids but he will keep them on the bench for cameo performances if we are losing or have injuries... you will continue to see Neville, Osman, Cahill and Hibbert ad nauseum!!

I truly hope I am totally wrong !!!!!!!

Tom Bowers
112   Posted 15/08/2010 at 21:46:51

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The Moyes tactics / team selection is only good if Everton score first. Very rarely we can come from behind no matter how poor the opposition. Remember Burnley last season when we even missed a penalty?

Yesterday, we had 16 attempts on goal and came up empty. The strategy has to change or the team selection. Failing that, Moyes has to come under serious scrutiny by the board. It's not acceptable to make excuses about players not being fully fit or they may need a few more games etc.etc. That's what pre-season games are about. If a player is not fully charged by the first kick-off then he should not be in the squad.

On a another note, is it not a bit ironic that both Merseyside keepers made catastrophic blunders in the opening games?

Tony Melarangi
113   Posted 15/08/2010 at 23:09:45

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I am glad to see I am not the only one who thinks that Moyes FC is rather limited by rigid team slection and negative tactics. I will happily watch Everton play counter-attack (shit-house) football at The Emirates. I feel rather differently about Everton playing limited, low-risk football at Ewood Park.

Granted, it is early days, but our typical style of play of the last few seasons is not capable of facilitating European qualification this season, let alone a top 4 place. Moyes FC is a solid mid-table club. He has done very well to achieve this on a limited budget. However, as Trevor Lynes has already implied, Moyes is too focused on negating the opposition and not winning the game outright. This does his players a disservice, and must often frustrate them immensely. I actually feel a bit sorry for Mikel. His loyalty might hold him back.

Max Main
114   Posted 16/08/2010 at 01:04:35

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Ciaran - "You suggest they should be embarrassed at winning a game by employing a tactic we've been exponents of for the last 8 years is complete and utter crap.

If anybody should be embarrassed, it is us."

Throughout my Everton supporting days I have been embarrassed by our hoofing, of course, but we've never employed that kind of Allardyce-esque cynicism. And we obviously haven't employed that tactic for the last 8 years so I don't know why you bother with that sort of comment, probably to start an argument.

Anyway, you clearly missed my point, or rather you accused me of a point I didn't make. I wasn't blaming their tactics for our defeat, just venting about how much I hate them for playing like that, against us or anyone else. I too couldn't be bothered to analyse Everton's failings yesterday and get into an argument about Moyes/Hibbert etc, but I couldn't let that "don't be too harsh on Blackburn" comment go. And it's "utterly pathetic" that I think Blackburn's tactics are shameful? Come on, Ciaran, is it really? No. It's obviously not. Good point though...

Anthony Hughes
115   Posted 16/08/2010 at 10:44:14

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Whatever the tactics employed by Blackburn they were sufficient to stop us scoring. Instead of worrying about what Allardyce did we should be more worried about our inability to change our tactics during the game to facilitate a fight back of any description.
Ciarán McGlone
116   Posted 16/08/2010 at 11:19:40

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"but we've never employed that kind of Allardyce-esque cynicism. And we obviously haven't employed that tactic for the last 8 years so "
------------------


Yes we have.
Tony J Williams
117   Posted 16/08/2010 at 13:15:00

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As a whole I imagine Moyes would of thought that his midfield of Pienaar, Arteta, Fellaini, Cahill and Osman would have been skillfull enough to put a pass into Saha's path instead of twatting it as soon as possible so Blackburns 6 foot 5 central defender could have a training session of a game.

We can criticise Moyes all we want but even I would have thought that midfield would have been able to carve out chances. And all of those screaming for Beckford inclusion, did you see his shot near the end, pure panic and no finese...great.

Also some sadistic part of me wants to see Moyes include Coleman, to see him for what he really is, a budding talent, not some almighty conquering hero that some beleive him to be.
Alan Clarke
118   Posted 16/08/2010 at 13:36:20

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The thing is Tony, we'd prefer to see a budding talent who at least gets game time so he can improve than the same old tried and tested players like Neville and HIbbert.
Anthony Hughes
119   Posted 16/08/2010 at 13:50:40

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Home to Wolves next week would be a good time to let him have ago,But can you really see Moyes dropping Neville?...no me neither.

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