Well, I for one believe the loyalty Moyes shows to Osman, Hibbert and Neville could well prove the downfall of our hopeful season. Reading the many summer articles, many people on ToffeeWeb were full of hope, excited that this season, if we had a good start, we could gatecrash the top 4.
Ok, losing the first game is not a disaster, as we recovered well after Arsenal beat us 4-1, we got 4th spot. Let's all be honest and admit that Neville Osman and Hibbert are not players who would get into the majority of Premier League sides and certainly not within the top half of the Prem. I understand loyalty etc but look where that got us with Gosling.
It's not tactical Moyes picked Osman and Neville as we all know there were better players on the bench who, if started, would have performed substantially better. Moyesy, you have 15 days to off-load these three and buy a Mars Bar with the proceeds! Seriously, we could lower the wage bill and get a bit of cash... I mean, for God's sake, Michael Ball is looking for a club and he would piss all over these.
Chris Perry, Posted 16/08/2010 at 20:20:35
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1 Posted 17/08/2010 at 06:24:20
And a dig at Neville, Osman and Hibbo. How fresh and new thinking.
2 Posted 17/08/2010 at 08:00:16
3 Posted 17/08/2010 at 09:20:32
Osman's inclusion in the starting 11 baffled me, and I can only agree that it was pure favourtism from Moyes on that one. He dropped Rodwell for Felli because we needed his height to defend... but hang on - Rodwell is slightly taller than Osman (by about 10 inches!). Why didn't Felli and Rodwell play in the middle, with Arteta and Pienaar wider????
4 Posted 17/08/2010 at 09:47:40
It must have been really frustrating for Rodwell after having performed brilliantly in the pre-season (2 goals?) plus for the U-21s, to sit out on the bench. That was a really poor decision by Moyes IMHO.
It is also probably time for Moyes to start thinking the unthinkable ? keep Cahill on the bench, and start with Bily/Beckford. And before, I get people jumping on me here, let me say that Tim Cahill is one of my all-time favourite Everton players, but probably he would better serve the team by coming off the bench for the last 30 minutes and terrorise the opposing defenders by out-jumping them, when they are tired.
5 Posted 17/08/2010 at 10:01:12
6 Posted 17/08/2010 at 10:16:58
There's a reason Neville, Hibbert and Osman consistently get slated by fans: it's because they are consistently our three worst performers. I wouldn't advocate selling them, Osman is someone I feel a little sorry for, as he is in this bracket because he is always played out of position, so his criticism is more about the manager than him, and the other two provide decent cover, but no more than that.
7 Posted 17/08/2010 at 11:05:18
8 Posted 17/08/2010 at 11:18:18
He's had wonderful games in the centre against the likes of Hull, Sunderland, Stoke and was very good against Blackburn last year in the centre, so I don't see Arteta getting 'bullied' as a problem.
9 Posted 17/08/2010 at 10:51:10
Firstly, would anyone pick the three mentioned players in the their first eleven, never mind for EFC, for any top eight EPL team??
Hibbo has been at EFC since the year dot, what started promisingly for Hibbo has possibly faded (1) due to injuries and (2) possible moral or the constant digs he takes, especially at GP. I thought Moyes would play Hibbo against Blackburn, really I hoping for Coleman but Moyes sticks with Neville. Why? Fuck knows why... but Neville starts. As for Coleman, well lets ignore the facts that he attacks with pace, defends well and offers width. I mean fuck knows why he doesn't play either.
Osman, please can we get real with this guy. He is at tops a Championship player, he has done well in that league and will continue to do well in that league. Brilliant ? now lets sell him to Leeds or whoever and move on. Osman drifted into the middle so much on Saturday he became invisible often leaving the right side wide open.
Actually we could go on and on but it becomes boring both commenting on that bollox, but worse, actually watching it. I mean, will Moyes open his eyes and see that Osman cannot play on the right wing??? Because, if he can't, every other fucking EPL manager can.
10 Posted 17/08/2010 at 11:16:08
Can anybody tell how many game's the teams above us lost last season? I bet it was more than one. There's 37 more game's to go yet, and I'm going to stick my neck out on the line and make a few preditions:
1. The world isn't over.
2. Howard, Cahill, Neville, Hibbert and Osman will all have good seasons.
3. Coleman isn't good enough to start at Right Back yet.
4. We won't be relegated.
11 Posted 17/08/2010 at 11:29:11
All the evidence seems to be in his favour.
12 Posted 17/08/2010 at 11:31:47
13 Posted 17/08/2010 at 11:21:19
Not quite... Hibbert was by and large accepted as being one of our most consistent and improved performers last season.
14 Posted 17/08/2010 at 11:32:30
My own opinion is that Everton just don't turn up if Pienaar and/or Arteta don't get us playing. They were both shite on Saturday, so in all honesty had no more right to be on the pitch than Ossie or Neville.
Ian ? I do actually share your frustration with not giving Coleman a chance... and just can't believe Rodwell didn't start. They've both been outstanding performers this pre-season.
15 Posted 17/08/2010 at 11:26:33
Nope, I gonna moan big time.
Did you go Saturday because MotD or streaming some web link for half the match don't count.
Saturday was bollox. Our next away game is at Villa Park and if we play the same right side as we fielded against Blackburn then we had better hope that Milner has been sold and that Downing and Young are both injured or we are fucked.
The match on Saturday was bad, believe me! Monday in the office has continued into today and I am still taking shit from RS fuckers.
16 Posted 17/08/2010 at 11:42:04
I honestly believe that if Coleman was one of the best Right Backs in the league, and Moyes and Everton where holding him back, his agent would have engineered a move to another club. Speaking of which, I don't remember Coleman being linked to Chelsea or Man Utd pre-season. Yet our better players where. Make from that what you will, but to me that points to him not being quite good enough/ ready yet.
17 Posted 17/08/2010 at 11:46:47
After Rodwell's display in the U21s, I was also surprised he wasn't given a go, particulary as I'm conivinced Cahill wasnt fully fit. Moyes as good as admitted he played Fellaini for his size even though he wasn't quite ready, and I think maybes Cahill's ability in our own box against set pieces resulted in his selection.
18 Posted 17/08/2010 at 11:52:31
Whether these players weren't ready to play here till Moyes selected them, or whether Moyes was slow to do so because it went against his principles or favoured players, is the real argument.
19 Posted 17/08/2010 at 11:44:09
However, our RB position is there for the taking and IMO Coleman is the man. Not next year, month or week. Now.
Hibbo will understand, EFC runs through him like blood.
20 Posted 17/08/2010 at 12:30:36
Do people honestly think that Moyes is so stubborn that he would have a "superstar" warming the bench? Rooney had a couple of matches on the bench then was put in for good, only being dropped when he was either knackered, banned or has played cack the game/games before.
The same with Rodwell, he was playing all the game, even when he was goosed. A good spell on the bench did him the world of good.
Coleman looks great going forward but after watching several Blackpool games, he was suspect in defence and we all know how defence-minded Moyes is.
21 Posted 17/08/2010 at 12:34:25
And I don't believe getting shut of our captain is the answer. He's not our best player, sure, but I think we'd miss him if he wasn't there... think back to our poor start last year (no, he wasn't the be-all and end-all, but his return to the team coincided with our return to form).
22 Posted 17/08/2010 at 12:53:51
23 Posted 17/08/2010 at 13:01:58
24 Posted 17/08/2010 at 12:51:33
I've been watching Everton for the last 30 years, admittedly not as much for the last 5 years due to my self-imposed exile to the South and also the emergence of my family. This year more than any other for longer than I can remember, filled me with hope, excitement and geunine belief that we could do something. Now that has not gone, and I still believe we can, but not with these three players ? they are simply not good enough and if anyone who believes they are good enough then I am disapointed with my fellow Evertonians.
I don't believe this "no money" and "no investors" crap, although the latter is for a seperate debate at some other time. Everton can raise funds and probably do have funds for the right player, who they are I don't know, but what I do know is we need a right midfielder, a solid right-back (Coleman or other) and a pacey striker. I am sorry but I for one do not believe Beckford is the answer, to me he is another Paul Wilkinson, Brett Angel or Stuart Barlow ? has the heart and will but simply lacks the ability.
I also don't think Bellamy is the answer... nor is Donovan; we need to buy for the future or "develop" our own for the future.
I hope and keep checking that we have signed "better" than what we have, and although the rumour pages are full of it, at present nothing has changed.
It needs to and it needs to change before Saturday against Wolves. I am again driving 250 friggin miles each way!
25 Posted 17/08/2010 at 13:18:50
Hibbert is a better DEFENDER than most of the right backs at other Prem clubs. His job is to defend, yet some on here seem to want him bombing forward and whipping in pinpoint crosses or shooting on sight of the goal!!! If that's what you want you might end up with Glen Johnson who is a far inferior DEFENDER to Hibbert.
I guess 'Hibbo Bashing' is this year's black.....
26 Posted 17/08/2010 at 13:12:57
(1) no attacking option on the right, then (2) get the ball to left side for Baines and Pienaar. Brilliant! And then our show buster (3) find Arteta who is busy trying to lose his 2 or 3 man-markers as they know we have fuck all down the right.
Great, keep it simple and regarding the height issue why don't we stick Osman on Neville's shoulders, saves trying to buy Crouch.
27 Posted 17/08/2010 at 13:18:13
The whole team was shite and the worst culprit was Mikey.
The only players that even made an effort were Baines and Felli.
Poor team selection, poor tactics, poor timing of substitutions and poor motivation.
Bad day at the office, Davey... and, following on from the no show at Wolfsburg, a bit worrying.
28 Posted 17/08/2010 at 13:18:58
But, as you say, if he's in the squad then Moyes will play him and there is the problem. Everyone knows he can't play wide right, everyone that is except Moyes, and in the middle of the midfield he's just not as good as Arteta, Bily, Rodwell, Pienaar, Cahill... in fact, let's be honest, he is our weak link in midfield. On his day he can be a skillfull and tricky little midfielder if deployed somewhere in the middle but he is way too inconsistent.
Osman, Neville and Hibbert need to be moved on, not all in one go but they should be the players that Moyes should be looking at replacing along with Dustbin and Yobo. I think Moyes sticks with these players because of experience and seems to like an old pro but where is it getting us?
Moyes is a very good manager who gets most things right but the few things he gets wrong are so frustrating because, although they are only one or two things, they have a big effect on the team performance. Please Moyes, take Neville into a coaching role, sell the other players mentioned, be more positive and go for it.
That second full season under Moyes when he tried playing more attacking football, lost the dressing room and we nearly got relegated set a footprint for Moyes's cautious play... and who could blame him? The pressure must have been unbelievable... but things are different now because he has the players. I just wish he could get rid of the deadwood and make some bold decisions.
29 Posted 17/08/2010 at 14:35:54
For all his attacking qualities, Coleman is not yet a better defender than Hibbert. His downfall is his play in the opposition's half. In his own half he is solid and dependable.
30 Posted 17/08/2010 at 14:50:04
Nobody performed well at Blackburn. It was an uninspiring formation and piss poor execution. A lack of quality in every area of our team. No pace or imagination same old Everton.
31 Posted 17/08/2010 at 23:05:54
Boy are you right, the whole Osman debate has been going on for longer than I can remember. Still, nothing's changed. Year after year he plays wide right. To say he's embarrassing is a huge understatement.
It's a complete myth to suggest he's only poor when played out wide. Apart from a handful of games over a period of years, he's been abysmal wherever he plays. When selected to play wide right, he normally lasts 5 mins in that position before he gravitates to a central position. That's when our problems start.
It gets very congested in the middle. With no outlet on the right, everything goes wide left and the opposition read us like a book. Added to this, our right back, regardless of who it is gets cruelly exposed. Think back to the FA Cup, Hibbert came in for a lot of abuse but in all honesty Osman hung him out to dry.
As for the claims that he's a good option in a central midfield birth, people have selective memories. Against the neighbours he was next to useless. The Spurs game at WHL was another fiasco. We were torn apart as we were overrun in the middle of the park. I honestly thought it could end up a cricket score. However, Osman was subbed with Heitinga moving into the middle and it was game on. I've never seen such a transformation.
I could go on, it's like bloody Groundhog Day every time he makes an appearance. His sole contribution on Saturday was to win a free kick in a promising position, to be honest I'm not sure it was free kick, he seemed to want go over every time someone looked at him.
It really is time to get rid, problem is, I'm not who would want to buy him.
32 Posted 18/08/2010 at 08:58:21
That observation about Osman drifting into the middle has been pretty obvious to me for years...Yet you'll still get people defending him on the basis that he's a 'cracking central player who's being played out of position'...
He's not a 'cracking player'...he's a consistently poor player who has the odd glimpse of genuis..He should be nowhere near our starting eleven.
33 Posted 18/08/2010 at 09:27:41
34 Posted 18/08/2010 at 11:20:52
Of course he does. He spends every day with these player's. Am glad he does aswell, because some of the things people have suggested seem wide of the mark from a managerial point of view. I am no expert of course, and that is exactly my point. Besides playing fantasy football games, who is?
If after one game your already desparing about the manager (and team), then it's going to be a long, hard season for you. Let's not forget, every mananger lose's at least one game a season.
35 Posted 18/08/2010 at 12:40:48
36 Posted 18/08/2010 at 12:59:19
Anichebe wasn't fit, Bily is in poor form and we can't afford MLS's price on Donovan. I think Osman played their because he has done so in the past, and Moyes wanted to keep Arteta in the centre because he's better there. If I was Moyes, I would rather Osman out on the right doing nothing than Arteta. But that's just my opinion.
I do believe though, that if there was serious doubts over Moyes's ability to deliver, Arteta would never have extended his contract. That alone gives me confidence, but let's not forget that many players have commited themselves to the club this summer aswell.
So lets get this season up and running on Saturday. COYB
37 Posted 18/08/2010 at 14:22:16
38 Posted 18/08/2010 at 23:40:18
And people slag on Moyes for being clueless.
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