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Has Kenwright ever heard of these two?

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On the BBC rumour page come two stories about Blackburn being taken over:

1. Blackburn are a takeover target for two wealthy Indian businessmen. Representatives of billionaire Ahsan Aly Syed arrived at Ewood Park on Monday for talks, claiming they will inject £300m into Rovers. They hope to block a bid by rival Saurin Shah, who is due in Blackburn on Wednesday for talks. Full story: the Sun

2. Rovers manager Sam Allardyce will be given £100m to spend on players this season if Ali Syed's proposed bid for the club is successful. Full story: Daily Telegraph

What have Rovers got going on that makes them a better prospect than EFC?
Trevor Powell, Chepstow     Posted 17/08/2010 at 09:28:42

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Albert Perkins
1   Posted 17/08/2010 at 14:18:11

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I just read that Blackburn, I mean Blackburn, have an offer of a takeover and £100 million for new players and Everton have not one single offer of any sort anyway anyhow.

Or have we? I find it really hard to believe that Everton are less worthy of an offer than the likes of Blackburn. We come higher than than Blackburn every season. We came 4th, 5th and 6th. We have great support and a very competitive team. With that sort of a financial lift we could really make the top 4.

Why are we not attracting these sort of takeover bids? It is astonishing and frustrating to me. Does anyone have an answer?

I mean.... Blackburn!

Tony Waring
2   Posted 17/08/2010 at 14:19:08

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This is just a question from a bewildered Evertonian. Why would anyone with millions to spend blow it on Blackburn Rovers.... rather than Everton?
Tony Williams
3   Posted 17/08/2010 at 14:20:14

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Within the last 10 days two, more English Football Clubs are about to be purchased by foreign investors. A company from Thailand has bought Leicester, and now we hear that an Indian company is in talks to buy Blackburn. Now, no disrespect to Leicester or Blackburn, but how the flying fuck are those two clubs a better investment then Everton? I am absolutely gobsmacked as to why we are continually overlooked.
Brendan O'Doherty
4   Posted 17/08/2010 at 14:22:56

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Blackburn are up for sale, we are not.
Anthony Hughes
5   Posted 17/08/2010 at 14:24:52

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Might it be down to the fact that Kenwright is the biggest bullshitting bastard we are all likely to come across?
Richard Reeves
6   Posted 17/08/2010 at 14:24:41

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If people don't get it now, then they never will. Kenwright isn't selling, he wants to keep control with someone else investing heavily.
Joeynkoo Ludden
7   Posted 17/08/2010 at 14:31:47

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Can we all, Kenwright lovers included, admit that we just are not for sale? Kenwright may be looking (24/7, yeah right) for investment, but he is not looking to leave the club and nor are the other major shareholders. Hence why pokey Blackburn and Shitteh etc are all able to find buyers and we are not. Simple.
Mike Oates
8   Posted 17/08/2010 at 14:32:20

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Fact is we need a buyer who is willing to put at least £450m to clear debt, pay Bill and friends off ,build a new ground and the normal injection of £30-40m for transfer funds. Both Blackburn and Leicester have new or refurbished grounds. Their purchases need zilch on grounds.

Our error was born 20 years ago when we stopped putting money into our stadium or build a new one.
James Marshall
9   Posted 17/08/2010 at 14:37:48

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Joeynkoo@7 ? good point well made mate. All this talk of takeovers is basically down to the fact that a controlling stake in Everton is not on the table. Surely this is the most pertinent point and the one that answers this simple conundrum.

Kenwright has never said the club is for sale, only that he's looking for investment. The return on that investment is the important point.
Mike Cloherty
10   Posted 17/08/2010 at 14:37:36

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It's probably down to the fact that Blackburn and Darwin as an area, has the biggest Asian population proportionally of any city in the UK. The prospective Indian buyers probably see an opportunity to tap into this market that has not been used as yet. I could imagine they would try to make Blackburn the Number 1 choice of support in India, a country of over 1 billion, and only second to China, with only one other major sport in cricket.
Jay Harris
11   Posted 17/08/2010 at 14:43:30

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James, may I correct you.

Kenwright has said he is looking for a billionaire to take over the club and has said he will step aside.

However, in his world, what you say and what you do are two different things.
Anthony Hughes
12   Posted 17/08/2010 at 14:41:39

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Mike, I agree, if somebody is willing to put that much money into the club then they will want to own it. Kenwright is talking of investment but it won't be on that scale of £300 million plus because he would have to relinquish control.
Anthony Hughes
13   Posted 17/08/2010 at 14:47:50

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I think Liverpool also has a large thriving Asian population as well and we are a much more attractive and higher profile city than Blackburn.
Jay Harris
14   Posted 17/08/2010 at 14:47:01

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Mike Oates
Blackburn's capacity is 31300.

How does the ground become a better prospect the Goodison.

Mike Cloherty has hit the nail totally on the head.

The game is now global and televised so turnstyle receipts come a poor second to broadcasting income and with an Asian connection and surrounding population there would seem to be a big opportunity.

Our lot cant even see past the end of their noses in terms of marketing and merchandising which is why we dont even make the top 10 for commercial income excluding Sky money.
Eugene Ruane
15   Posted 17/08/2010 at 14:46:53

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While zillionaires are being shown around Blackburn, I get a mental picture of BK sitting in 'our' boardroom with a 'delegation' from Reg Twatt's Pie Merchants.

A plate of sandwiches is offered about and BK points out..

"Erm...They're crab paste and they're...um..egg mayonnaise I think....or salad cream (leans back in chair) So gentlemen, to business. For an investment of just £900....."

Etc.
Mike Cloherty
16   Posted 17/08/2010 at 15:00:22

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Anthony, Blackburn as a population has over 20% Asian heritage. Liverpool although much larger than Blackburn in no way matches either the percentage or numbers that Blackburn has. It is just a much more viable and workable option for an Indian investor (if it is the Asian Market that he is trying to tap into).
Declan O'Shaughnessy
17   Posted 17/08/2010 at 14:52:55

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It amazes me how excited we all get about these rumoured new owners, every time a story pops-up in the papers. When I read about Blackburn's potential new owner, what struck me was the bit about him being "an heir" to a £5bn fortune. Now, does that mean he currently doesn't have a pot to piss in (comparatively speaking)?

I think, underneath all the bluster and promises, that very little of what is rumoured in these stories ever turns out to be true. Every gobshite who fancies a bit of publicity declares, via a PA agency, that he's interested in buying a football club and will lavish said club with hundreds of millions for transfers. Fans of said club lap it up, demand current owner sells up and fucks off before they crucify him. Fans of clubs such as ours up in arms as to why we can't attract such an investor. Two months down the line, potential investor has either never stumped up the cash to buy the club, or has never put up the cash for transfers. Fans of said club are up in arms, protesting that "we don't deserve this" or "we were lied to" and plead for someone to rescue them. Fans of our club simply stay quiet or blithely ignore what's happened, and still demand a new owner.

I've made this point before, but it seems that it is worth making again: very, very few of the proposed takeovers of clubs in the last 5 years actually happened. Of the tiny number that did, very few worked out well from the club's or the fans' perspective. I'm not just alluding to disaster stories like Portsmouth, I'm talking about Villa (managerless), Utd (massive fan protest still ongoing), Liverpool (although I can't personally complain about this one) etc. Even clubs like Birmingham, when you look at it, haven't delivered the level of signings post-takeover that was promised (remember when Carston Yeung said his mistake last Winter was telling everyone that he had £45m to spend on transfers? What's his excuse this Summer? Because they sure as shit haven't been spending that level of money). The only clubs I can think of that have benefitted from a takeover are Spurs (and that's only been a recent benefit), maybe Arsenal (though that's not been a proper takeover) and of course Chelsea and Citteh. The odds, from what I can see, are not good.

Call Bill Kenwright a "bullshitter" or a "liar" or whatever you want. But, from what I can see, he's only in line with other football club owners in not living up to his promises.
Antony Matthews
18   Posted 17/08/2010 at 14:50:51

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I'm from Blackburn, and although there is a high Asian population, not many are season ticket holders. Probably more Scandanavians support the shite. Maybe the shite should be taken over by a Norway airplane company!

Eventually the washing will come out and Evertonians will be able to decide if Kenwright was in it for the "good of the club" or not. Even if Rovers get taken over, would the top players want to play for them? £100m kitty doesn't go far especially on wages as well. Would you trust Allardyce to spend £100m on players who want to play football? Maybe he would spend it on Barton, Mascherano, Mikel, etc (ie, thugs).

Gavin Ramejkis
19   Posted 17/08/2010 at 15:16:38

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"What have Rovers got going on that makes them a better prospect than EFC? "

A chairman who is selling and not bullshitting 24/7? Do I win a coconut?
Anthony Hughes
20   Posted 17/08/2010 at 15:14:03

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Without the exact numbers to hand, Mike, as a resident of the south end of Liverpool I can assure you that we have a huge thriving and increasing Asian population, and across the city will number in the many thousands. Liverpool does match Blackburn for its Asian population.
Anthony Hughes
21   Posted 17/08/2010 at 15:24:04

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Take your prize, Gavin.
David Price
22   Posted 17/08/2010 at 15:27:34

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Declan #17, excellent reality post there mate.
Anthony trust me, till you've been to Blackburn and Darwen you'll know what a thriving Asian community is.
Our only chance is a Blue billionaire, till then we've just got to get on with things the way they are.
Anthony Hughes
23   Posted 17/08/2010 at 15:42:09

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David, I've worked in Blackburn on a few occasions as I have in many places across England, Scotland and Wales. I'm fully aware of the population cross sections of our country so I'm fully aware of Blackburn/Darwen.
Mike Cloherty
24   Posted 17/08/2010 at 15:40:28

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Anthony, 20% of Liverpool is not Asian and by that I mean of Indian, Pakistani, bangleshi, afghani heritage. Not near. 20% of Blackburn is. There may well be an increasing and thriving population but there is in nearly all larger cities in the UK. What i'm trying to get at is the fact that Blackburn is an attractive prospect to an Indian buyer because IT IS as I mentioned in my first comment the city with the highest population proportionately of Asian people in the UK. Proportionately more than London, more than Birmingham, more than Manchester and certainly more than Liverpool. I don't know what the issue is here?
Jay Harris
25   Posted 17/08/2010 at 15:52:16

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Gavin... make that 2 coconuts.
Andrew Mackenzie
26   Posted 17/08/2010 at 15:49:47

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Other than potential cultural links, they don't need a complete ground rebuild. As many here state, what exactly have new owners bar Chelsea and Man City (likely) ever done for a club other then put them in debt followed by massive fan unrest and in some cases a 9-point deduction, and for every bid there appear to be 'rival' bids that dissapear into thin air.

While this guy may be the heir to a £5bn fortune, reality is that will be split across a corporate and trust structure and will only ever be used to leverage against... sound familiar! We are going nowhere unless someone redefines football's capital structure, limiting salaries etc., and they have £500M to blow on a ground and infrastructure, personally I can't see it in my lifetime so will focus on supporting the team.

Anthony Hughes
27   Posted 17/08/2010 at 15:58:50

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Fair enough, Mike, I'll hold my hand up to your facts and figures, mate. Whatever the guy's motives are for wanting to buy Blackburn, it's still annoying that our club can't attract that level of interest.
Ciarán McGlone
28   Posted 17/08/2010 at 16:05:40

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'Has Kenwright ever heard of these two?'

He's not answering your question... he's bored of it.
David Thomas
29   Posted 17/08/2010 at 16:04:29

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Declan 17,

Excellent post.
Ciarán McGlone
30   Posted 17/08/2010 at 16:06:28

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Liverpool has four times the population of Blackburn.

Mathematics is really taking a battering in this thread...Percentages mean nothing.
Alan Kirwin
31   Posted 17/08/2010 at 16:39:49

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I suggest we sit & wait to see what, if anything happens at Blackburn. People seem to have very short memories, but the examples at Liverpool, Newcastle & West Ham serve as a warning about those supposedly bearing gifts. The media has been humming for weeks about bids for Liverpool from China, the UAE and everywhere else. And.....? Nothing, nada, zip.

Blackburn is a small town with a 50% Asian population (the largest in the UK). I suggest anyone seriously suggesting spending £100m on players at Blackburn is certifiable. There is no way of redeeming the money.

Or to put it another way, I don't believe a word of it. But sure, it serves as the latest cage rattler for the Kenwright haters.

Meanwhile...
Chris Butler
32   Posted 17/08/2010 at 16:45:39

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This is clearly something to do with the club rather than the obvious reasons why Everton are far more attractive proposition. It must be something to do with Kenwright and his cronies. Everton have one of the largest supports in Britain with only really Newcastle, Liverpool, Manchester United, Arsenal and Chelsea having a larger support.
Chris Keightley
33   Posted 17/08/2010 at 17:12:39

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We are a large fish in a small pond, the pond dried out and the rest of the fish swam to a lake, while we thrashed about in a puddle ? or something about seagulls and trawlers... I'm unsure!!
Michael Brien
34   Posted 17/08/2010 at 17:10:36

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If you think Blackburn will have a transfer budget of £100M to spend before the end of the transfer window then I suggest you would be better off using Roy of The Rovers annuals as source material rather than the sports pages ? there is probably more truth in them. As somebody once said, "If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is."

I seem to remember that super rich owner of Portsmouth being paraded before the fans, wearing the obligatory Portsmouth colours of course... great promises. I think he was owner number 2 last season ? or was he number 3 ??

If I was a Blackburn Rovers supporter, I would be adopting an "I'll believe it when I see it" approach. The last few seasons have seen a host of prospective new club owners with promises of massive transfer budgets and massive ambitions. Didn't the owner of Birmingham City make claims of a great transfer "war chest" for Alex McLeish to have to spend on players? I wonder what became of that?

Steve Ferns
35   Posted 17/08/2010 at 17:18:33

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Where are these Asians (of Indian / Pakistani orign) all living in Liverpool? I never seen any of them. We have significant Black population, a proud but small chinese population but the dmographics of Liverpool still have the cities biggest immigrant population as the Irish one. I'm not being to be pedantic, but there is no real Asian population here to speak of unless you mean the students at the University and even that is replicated accross the country in every other big uni.
Steve Ferns
36   Posted 17/08/2010 at 17:28:59

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From wikipedia:

Ethnicity
(2007 Estimate)[2] 91.5% White
2.3% Chinese and other
2.3% Asian or Asian British
2.0% Mixed Race
1.9% Black or Black British
Ajay Gopal
37   Posted 17/08/2010 at 17:20:29

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I am from India, and I must admit that this is the 1st time that I have heard of these 2 'wealthy' Indian gentlemen. And I pride myself on being up to date on matters of Indian businesses. There has been no report of this takeover in Indian news articles (at least, i havn't seen one !).

Although, last week I was worried when I saw a report linking Mukesh Ambani to a takeover of RS. Now, what would a smart (and seriously rich!) businessman like Ambani have to do with such a small time club ? Beats me !

Seriously, I would encourage everyone here to re-look at Declan's post (#17) - superb !
Tony X Williams
38   Posted 17/08/2010 at 17:42:57

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Ajay... have you got any mates in India who can have a word with Ambani, and have him take a look at Everton!
Charles King
39   Posted 17/08/2010 at 17:29:53

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Whether the Blackburn story is true or not, the fact that EFC are NEVER rumoured about is the telling point.

I'd love someone to set up a credible sting regarding BK and chums to find out whats going on.

Any arab Evertonians with a good line in patter out there?
Tony X Williams
40   Posted 17/08/2010 at 17:50:35

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The bid for Blackburn is serious and does have substance. They have signed a 'Memorandum of Understanding.' If I'm not mistaken, that means exclusive negotiations, and then they will go into 'Due diligence.' So it can't all be smoke and mirrors.
Karl Masters
41   Posted 17/08/2010 at 17:59:20

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It's an odd world when Asian 'businessmen' are looking to buy our football clubs while we are being asked to send hundreds of millions in aid to those poor flood victims in Pakistan.

If this takeover ever happens, I'd be highly sceptical about it being of any benefit to Blackburn or its fans.
David Thomas
42   Posted 17/08/2010 at 18:05:03

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Tony X Williams,

Care to share your source?
David Booth
43   Posted 17/08/2010 at 18:09:09

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I don't want to be owned by some Asian businessman I've never heard of.

I am in no way jingoistic or xenophobic but, unless it's a British buyer, we are surely not interested.

I'd much rather stay as we are, making good progress (hmmm, Saturday's result excepted...), than sell the club to yet another allegedly-wealthy overseas meddler with questionable motives and an even more questionable business history.
Eugene Ruane
44   Posted 17/08/2010 at 17:50:51

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Hooray!!

Like a moth to a flame - flash-bang, straight in there!

Alan Kirwan gives it "the Kenwright haters"

Black or white but DEFINITELY no grey from the number one Kenwright... LOVER.

Yes that's right, I said LOVER! (not that there's ANYTHING wrong with that!)

An entIrely reasonable Everton-related question is posed, answers arrive and FLASH, there he is giving it (adopts usual disinterested, I'm-here-but-I'm-not-here, world-weary)..

"Siiiiiigh, the Kenwright haters" (who just HATE Bill because... um... they're naturally hate-filled and drooling savage snarling sheep with... erm... rattling cages or... something but... I don't care because I'm living LIFE!! ? Barman! Lager, rocks, shaken not shtirred and send a bottle of Pomagne to the two beautiful girlsh with my complimentsh ? look out for my next 6 posts on this thread telling you that I'm completely bored of this thread and out 'living life'").

Meanwhile... (undies, vest, computer)
Tony X Williams
45   Posted 17/08/2010 at 18:18:24

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David, the story behind the Blackburn bid is on Sky Sports News Premier League page.

http://www.skysports.com/football/premier-league/
Alan Williams
46   Posted 17/08/2010 at 18:08:42

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Some people are just stupid! Kenwright doesn?t own EFC; he has the controlling shares of less that 30%. Yes some of his friends have the rest but money talks and any buyer could get the club without even buying his shares.

EFC are paying Keith Harris to look for investors/buyers on an ongoing basis; Mr Harris has publically stated this on national radio many times. Any interested party can go to the press and express their interest and will be invited through the door? just how many have done that and said they got blocked by the board, lets think a bit longer? oh yes NOBODY!!

Leave Kenwright alone, your hatred masks common sense; he isn?t perfect by any means but none of us are. COYB

Kunal Desai
47   Posted 17/08/2010 at 18:33:12

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Ajay - I think we need to drop a line to Lakshmi Mittal.

From Wiki :-

Recently, Mittal had emerged as a leading contender to buy and sell Barclays Premiership clubs Wigan and EVERTON.

He may need to relinquish that 20% stake in QPR first.

He's part funding the 2012 Olympics for £19M perhaps he could fully fund Everton?? :)
Joeynkoo Ludden
48   Posted 17/08/2010 at 19:12:00

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Alan (#31) ? are you quite sure that Blackburn has a larger Asian population that Birmingham?? As a born and bred Brummie, I'd like to see your population stats (please don't use percentages, as 50%, which is wrong anyway, of a small population is an even smaller population).
Andy Codling
49   Posted 17/08/2010 at 19:55:35

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He's just the chairman, why would he know?
Michael Kenrick
50   Posted 17/08/2010 at 20:14:25

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Alan (#46): if you really think that's how it happens ? ie, interested parties going through the press ? then there is the explanation why you have heard of nobody.


Yet Kenwright himself has told us of seven or eight parties of interested investors EACH YEAR. The reality is they likely sign highly restrictive Confidentiality Agreements and Non-Disclosure Statements before they even get that first foot in the door. That's why you never (or very rarely) hear about any of these attempts. [There was a lad a couple of years back who gave us an account of one such encounter that we published but I don't think it got much attention... mainly because everyone had to take it on trust. ]

Alan Kirwin
51   Posted 17/08/2010 at 20:14:52

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Jeynkoo - I'm going by a Newsnight special of about 2 years ago that focused entirely on Blackburn and the explositon in its Asian population and the tensions it has created 50/50 . They also showed a map of the town with a line almost down the middle denoting the split. No reason to doubt the BBC's research, but happy to take the flak as a meseanger.

And I reiterate my point (that's content for those who have none) that rumour isn't the same as fact and, just to make it simple, I invite those who despise the current EFC chairman, board & all else to give us examples of successful takeovers (i.e. truthful, invested their own money, didn't load it on the club and all still ticketyboo). Last time I asked this Notts County and West Ham were amongst the examples. I think Newcastle had finally been laid to rest. In fact, even Villa would be pushing the point these days. Simple question, can't wait for the answers.

Eugene Ruane - is there a point in there, anywhere, and will you ever reach it? My attitude to Kenwright is one of tolerance or qualified acceptance, not even preference nor anything beyond that. The role of devil's advocate is important when the frothing dogs emerge. And, true to form, hello! Or, as you accurately describe it, like a tired old moth to a tired old flame. So, content, got any?
Joe McMahon
52   Posted 17/08/2010 at 20:39:44

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I live 10 miles away from Blackburn, this takeover is going to happen. It's been talked about locally for the past 2 - 3 months. The only thing I can think of is that Blackburn has a very large and in some cases influential/wealthy Indian community, no doubt with many ties in India. Burnley, even though only a few miles away has no Indian community, just Pakistani.

Large Indian communities in the UK outside London are Blackburn and Leicester, but Leicester City have also been just taken over (as already mentioned). I know I've rambled a bit but that's what I conclude, apart from that Bill Kenwright is just pathetic in all departments - 24/7

WATCH THIS SPACE.

John Vanderwerff
53   Posted 17/08/2010 at 20:39:18

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I thought it was all much simpler than the above ? the guy with the money supports Blackburn!
David Thomas
54   Posted 17/08/2010 at 20:36:43

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Tony,

Thanks for the link. I didn't realise you were simply quoting the Sky website, it thought you had some inside knowledge due to the detail you gave. The article seems a bit odd to me, especially when it says the interested parties are going to start a process of Due Dilligence for about 4 weeks but still hope to have funds available to Big Sam before the transfer deadline. Have they changed the transfer deadline or something, or is it simply lazy journalism putting two and two together and coming up with five?

Michael,

Has Kenwright not said in the past he gets 7 or 8 people coming to him each year and when it gets to the point of "show us your money" these potential investors seem to vanish off the face of the earth.

Also, these non-disclosure statements and agreements, are everton the only club who get the interested parties to sign these? I presume Liverpool for example don't use them as we have heard about their interested parties. Same with United and the Red Knights. Same with Portsmouth about 3 times last season etc.
Andrew Gilbert
55   Posted 17/08/2010 at 21:07:55

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There has been plenty of stories about Everton looking for investment in the media, if anybody wants to buy our club then they are obviously not fighting hard enough for it.

It would be nice to have new owners who really want the club, not someone who just wants a Premier League 'look at me' trophy club to talk about at cocktail parties.

It would be easy for someone with money to push a sale through a difficult board, Kenwright included.

If no-one wants us badly enough, then let's do it the hard way until someone does. It will taste much, much better!
Sam Hoare
56   Posted 17/08/2010 at 21:16:32

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Working in theatrical circles, it is well know that our esteemed chairman is quite the bullshitter... No doubt the same in footballing circles too.

However, as already pointed out on this thread, everyone is very quick to get jealous of the large amounts of money talked about but few reflect on the limited success of such past situations.

City and Chelsea have profited. Not many others have. Be careful who you open the doors to!
Anand Rabheru
57   Posted 17/08/2010 at 22:11:37

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Tony, 38, Ambani and his brother were both at Goodison (reportedley) sat alongside Kenwright a couple of seasons ago. If I remember right, it is the Ambani brothers (who are both absolutley minted) who don't get on with each other and both were supposedly interested in investing into Everton but Kenwright was not interested. I think one of the Ambani's spokesman came out in public and said they tried discussing a deal but it was clear Kenwright had no interest in selling so there was no point in chatting to him!

Also, this guy looking to buy Blackburn has come out and said he is a football fan and he is not looking to make money from this deal, he is doing it for a bit of fun. He has plenty of other investments to make money from.
Anand Rabheru
58   Posted 17/08/2010 at 22:23:55

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The other thing, if an Indian investor wanted to invest in English footy, wouldn't Everton be ideal considering we have a setup in Bengal, East India? Two seasons ago, we set up a link with the Indian Football Federation and were the first English club to set up football in the Indian market coaching them. I presume it's still going on even though I haven't heard much about that recently.

http://www.evertonfc.com/news/archive/everton-in-india.html
Richard Reeves
59   Posted 17/08/2010 at 21:44:32

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Kenwright has said he is looking for investment but how can anyone get a return if they do invest?

I admit that I don't know much about the club's revenue and how it could improve but If someone was to invest heavily to build a new ground then that would take four years to build before there is any increase in ticket sales. On the other hand, If someone was to invest say £50M and that was to help Moyes to improve the squad, then the only return that I can see would be If we qualified for the Champions League.

At the moment, even when we do get into Europe, we still have to sell before we buy; with the wage bill going up there will probably be less money at the end of each season. When I think about it, I reckon Kenwright wouldn't want that extra headache of paying an investor if something goes wrong on the field.

I think he is keeping things the way they are In the hope that Moyes can get us into the Champions League and get us to a better place financially.

Eugene Ruane
60   Posted 17/08/2010 at 21:54:59

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Alan you ask "Eugene Ruane - is there a point in there, anywhere, and will you ever reach it?"

The point is I'm not prepared to say fuck all and let you get away with your bluster, bluff, double-standards and sleight of hand regarding BK.

Hope that's clear enough (even for you).

This admittedly is a daft game but it's YOUR game

However there's been a rule change.

If I, or anyone else who wants to put forward a non-positive point of view regarding Bill Kenwright, must be labeled by you a 'Kenwright hater', it is only fair for 'Kenwright lover' to be applied to you.

You continue "My attitude to Kenwright is one of tolerance or qualified acceptance, not even preference nor anything beyond that."

Yeah yeah, thank you Mr Logic, we all know how incredibly rational you are... except when it comes to sending post after post telling us all that you don't want to get involved coz you have a life (do you REALLY not see how mad that looks?)

My attitude to Kenwright has NOTHING to do with 'hatred' and everything to do with the truth and logic.

If he has lied, I will not ignore or forgive the lie (or like you, refer to the lie as 'a mistake').

If he has REPEATEDLY lied, I will think of him as 'a liar' and this will (naturally) be reflected in my posts regarding him and the decisions he takes.

If I believe he has shown himself to be incompetent, this will (naturally) be reflected in my posts regarding him and the decisions he takes.

Does that make me a 'Kenwright hater'?

NOT - AT - ALL.

Yet your (staggeringly over the top) response is to label me (and others) 'snarling, gnarling slavering sheep' and a 'frothing gnashing cage-rattling dogs'

This rabid gibberish from the... er... voice of reason!?

You say "The role of devil's advocate is important when the frothing dogs emerge." (cue Family Fortune's 'wrong answer' sound effect)

Ahhh there's that AK old sleight-of-hand again!

Different point of view to yours?

Grrrrr - look out everyone, FROTHING DOGS!!!

You finish with "And, true to form, hello! Or, as you accurately describe it, like a tired old moth to a tired old flame. So, content, got any?" (where did I say 'tired'?)

Sorry Alan, your weapons are useless.

My 'content' IS there and as clear as day for those not blinded by the vision of loveliness and honesty that is BK.

By the way, love the Alan Partridge-esque 'Hello'

Er... hello Mr Kirwan

("No, no, it's a thing Americans say!")
David Smith
61   Posted 17/08/2010 at 23:22:01

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I'm currently listening to Bill Kenwright's Golden Years on Radio 2 - I didn't realise he had a show, not my cup of tea, I'm only listening out of curiosity.

I like him, he sounds like my Grandad, however he does talk a lot of shite, something tells me he's more interested in curling up with a brandy 24/7 rather than seeking investment.

Kevin Hudson
62   Posted 17/08/2010 at 23:22:00

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Charles King @39.

Send in the News Of The World's own Fake Sheikh!!
Dick Fearon
63   Posted 17/08/2010 at 23:06:26

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There is something very very sick when rich men from poverty stricken countries will spend hundreds of millions on buying a foreign football club. How many health centres, vaccines or meals could that kind of money provide for their own poor people?
Dick Fearon
64   Posted 17/08/2010 at 23:38:58

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On another note, the kind of money spoken of would buy the RS a club with a higher international profile than Everton and Blackburn combined. This city already has a long connection with India, it already figures prominently as in the name of one of our well known buildings.
Jimmy Hacking
65   Posted 17/08/2010 at 23:56:01

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Blackburn lose money every season, and have an average crowd of two-thirds capacity. A couple of decades ago the club struggled to get 5,000 fans per match; they are not a "sleeping giant". In terms of crowds, catchment etc, they appear to have peaked. Like Wigan, they are punching above their weight by even being in the Premier League.

If I was a Blackburn fan, I would be very suspicious of these people's motives, and would take any ridiculous promises about £100 million transfer kitties with a very large pinch of salt.
Brendan O'Doherty
66   Posted 18/08/2010 at 00:40:25

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Anand (#57)

"I think one of the Ambani's spokesman came out in public and said they tried discussing a deal but it was clear Kenwright had no interest in selling so there was no point in chatting to him!"

If that's true, it's staggering.

It would also suppot my point in post #4: WE ARE NOT FOR SALE.
Eric Myles
67   Posted 18/08/2010 at 01:51:02

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Mike #10.
The sports of Kabadi and Hockey are also very popular in India.
Ste Traverse
68   Posted 18/08/2010 at 03:16:08

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They've gone for Blackburn not us because they are available and we're not because Kenwright wants to hang on to his nice little niche at all costs.

It's an absolute joke, we get outspent by the likes of Stoke these days and you still get the Alan Kirwins of this world defending BK and his inept regime.
Kristian Boyce
69   Posted 18/08/2010 at 05:40:19

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I saw this deal come up a couple of days ago on a few of websites, and originally had the same thought, why not us? But reading into some of the information that Aly Syed mentioned whilst talking about the deal, I had second thoughts.

Some of his comments were about that he saw this venture more as entertainment, not investment. Which basically comes across as the team will be a rich boy's plaything. This is all said and good for the time being, but once he gets bored of it, and it becomes more money than it's worth, what happens then, another Portsmouth?

A lot of things have been said about the potential of the club with the local Indian population. In the end of the day, Blackburn aren't going to get many more supporters in Ewood Park, and its not like he can ship the club over to the sub-continent to tap into a fan base there.

I'm not pro-Kenwright but this deal highlights the lack of stability in other clubs' boardrooms, something which we have had over the last few years. We are pretty much the only major club that hasn't been involved in a takeover during the last 6-7 years. Everyone on here seems desperate for a new owner, and the perceived riches that it brings. But look at the track record of most take-overs:

Man U ? Huge success, but huge debt;
Chelsea ? The original 'Big Spenders' but how long will the Russian bankroll them?
Liverpool ? Do I even have to say anything?
West Ham ? Now owned by the porn kings, but was owned but a bankrupted Icelandic bank
Newcastle ? Ashley took them down, huge laughing stock, and Ashley can't sell them still;
Man City ? Now probably the most despised club in the country, lack of class, rich boy's play thing and in the end of the day it's City, so something will go drastically and comically wrong;
Portsmouth ? Last season's entertainment, how not to run a football club.

This brings me to Villa. I remember many people on this site praising the way Lerner ran the club and his approach to ownership. Is that the same today? His new sell-to-buy policy has turned them into a selling club and City's feeder club, with most of the income being banked, not outlaid on new players.

Tony X Williams
70   Posted 18/08/2010 at 06:38:07

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"Rumours have surfaced that the "richest Indian in the world", Lakshmi Mittal has made a bid to buy Everton. Said to be worth $63 BILLION Mittal is rumoured to have made an offer to the board which was discussed at a board meeting this evening at Goodison Park."

Does this sound familiar??? The article above appeared on the BBC on 27 June 2008!!! Here we are 2 years down the track and its the same ol' same ol.' I guess it's true what Confuscius said, "There are lies... damn lies... and then there's the internet."
Eugene Ruane
71   Posted 18/08/2010 at 06:48:18

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Kristian, re Blackburn, you say..

"Which basically comes across as the team will be a rich boy's plaything".

You are absolutely right, that is exactly what they would become.

However to a great extent, that is what football teams in 2010 are.

Disgusting?

Absolutely!

However that's....the way it is.

And as we can't force Sky/The PL/FA to do the right thing (ie: bring in rules on spending to make the league fairer, enforce their own 'rules' regarding 'fit and proper' etc) we have two choices.

1) Pack in watching.

2) Moan but....go along with it.

And if 2 is your (my) answer, it is fair enough to prefer to be a rich boy's plaything than what we are right now.

A not very rich boy's plaything.
Alan Williams
72   Posted 18/08/2010 at 07:51:32

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Michael, yes that is one way to do it but if, as many state, BK is blocking such a move, you can gain your seat to the table in other ways. Firstly, buy up minority shareholders; secondly, make an offer to the Granchesters for theirs too (who are not totally in bed with BK) thus enabling you take the upper hand and broker a deal. Whether behind closed doors or not, the public feeling to a new buyer who has capital would dwarf BK and his backers, leaving him no option but to consider offers.

The simple fact is, yes, people have shown intent but that intent hasn?t been realised, you or I can call companies like Blankstone Sington and buy EFC shares on account, admittedly not on mass but it?s a start. If you look at the Blackburn Telegraph, the new alleged buyer has supported Blackburn for over 10 years and is looking to invest £300 million over 15 years, basically £20 million per year; Blackburn currently lose about £4 million per year so this leaves them £16 million cash to fund new players per season.

Yes, it's an improvement for Blackburn but if you consider what?s on offer from EFC with debit, stadia and purchase of the company, then this guy doesn?t have the wealth to take us forward, even if he was interested. That?s the problem fans need to realise about EFC ? any potential investor/owner needs to put in serious CASH, not cross guarantees or bridging loans... CASH!!

That?s the problem we face ? not BK blocking investors to suit his own ego, as most fans attending this site seem to think, or would like to think. When deals like this and the RS hit the papers, always check the small print before reading the headlines ? it becomes a lot clearer. COYB

Gavin Ramejkis
73   Posted 18/08/2010 at 07:37:41

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Eugene, you could easily ask, "Does that make us a poor boy's plaything?"
Roberto Birquet
74   Posted 18/08/2010 at 08:21:30

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Alan Kirwin

I'd count Villa a success. Lerner has piled money into Villa and given its manager full reins at the club. Despite all the crap written and said about the "great" manager O'Neill, he squandered it. Lerner is continually stumping up the cash to this day.

Who is paying the astronomical - 90%+ of turnover - wage bill?

I don't hear Chelski fans complaining - despite being a miserable bunch of gets. Three League titles to add to the grand total of one, pre-Abramovich.

That is not to say it has been great for everyone; Pompey and others have been a mess, and the are lucky to still exist. And I remember people on here screaming of our inaction on transfers vis-a-vis Pompey,saying: Fecking Pompey!

The Yanks over the park have provided great entertainment. But even they have stumped up money for transfers: All that whingeing from Benitez came after Liverpool had spent over five years more than all but two clubs: Chelsea and Spurs.

As an aside, Arsenal are selling shares to fans.

How much of a goer would that be at Everton? Worth doing? credible? I remember reading Delloite Touche report a few yrs back that Spurs followed by Chelsea, Arse and Man U as country's richest fans. Everton were ahead of only Sunderland. Would that be an issue?
Michael Brien
75   Posted 18/08/2010 at 08:32:40

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Eugene - the post referred directly to the impending take over of Blackburn Rovers. I think it is 4 posts that you have made in this debate and you have made 2 very tenuous references to Blackburn Rovers. You have the nerve to refer to Kenwright as being full of bullshit - if anyone is guilty of that then I would say it is you. Perhaps you should try a career in Politics - specifically the Lib - Dems - they seem to be rather full of bullshit at the moment.

As regards the main point of the debate - does anyone seriously think that Blackburn Rovers will have £100M to spend on players - just like that ? There have been far too many examples in recent years of people buying control of clubs and there being the promise of lavish transfer budgets and equally lavish 5 year plans of winning the Champions League - being the best in Europe etc etc.

If I was a Blackburn Rovers supporter I would be a bit cautious of this - as they say the proof of the pudding is in the eating. If this takeover of Blackburn Rovers is a good thing for them - then it will take a couple of seasons at least before that is known. I can still see that Icelandic bloke who bought West Ham making promises of glory - 3 years or so later, I think, and it was a different story.

Michael Brien
76   Posted 18/08/2010 at 08:54:05

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We all want to see Everton do well and sadly that would seem to require some mega investment from sources that may or may not have the best interests of the club at heart. That is no different from most football fans - perhaps we should all be careful what we wish for.
Ciarán McGlone
77   Posted 18/08/2010 at 09:06:59

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"There is something very very sick when rich men from poverty stricken countries will spend hundreds of millions on buying a foreign football club. How many health centres, vaccines or meals could that kind of money provide for their own poor people? "
-------------------

Too true Mr Fearon...

We're all wrapped in our little Everton world..sometimes it's good to realise that football is a distraction from the real stuff.

Again, I'm enjoying this altercation between Alan and Eugene...Alan would need to up his game significantly though...
Anand Rabheru
78   Posted 18/08/2010 at 09:18:44

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Brendan, #66, that quote came after Ambani's son was with Kenwright at the pre-seaosn friendly v PSV at Goodison a couple of seasons ago (I said in #57 it was Ambani but doing a google search it was his son!).

I cannot find the quote anyway, but I do remember it and that just summed it all up to me, your post #4 is spot on!

this link is when Ambani's son (again only reportedley) met Kenwright.
http://sify.com/finance/anil-ambani-now-sets-sight-on-everton-news-news-jegwXGabcha.html
Joeynkoo Ludden
79   Posted 18/08/2010 at 09:39:31

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Alan (51) - always question the BBC.

As an aside with this Blackburn / high Asian population, its a nonsense. Firstly, the Asian community is as patriotic and divisive as any population. For example, Bangladeshi and Pakistani supporters won't simply follow an Indian team based on an Asian root. Moreover, football is not the most popular sport amongst Asians, and this is something that will not change overnight and fill Ewood Park.
Shaun Brennan
80   Posted 18/08/2010 at 10:12:02

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Why would Kenwright of heard of these guys anyway?

And Tony 40, I'm from the Kenwright school of thought and my guess is, 'Memorandum of Understanding', Kenwright doesn't do these, he does golden showers... Sorry, handshakes.
Chris Lawlor
81   Posted 18/08/2010 at 10:28:24

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Am I the only one that does not want to see our great club whored out to the highest bidder? I seriously recommend you all look at the state of the Premier league clubs that have recently acquired new owners...other than gaining a multitude of foreign mercenary players and plastic fans from the other side of the world..how have they progressed? (Chelsea aside...but thats a whole other rant!).

I want our club in the hands of someone who understands its history and pedigree. An individual who has bought for the longterm benefits and the good of the locale...so far this type of Meglamaniac..sorry Billionaire hasnt materialised, so we go on doing what we are doing under Moyes and doing it well.
Eugene Ruane
82   Posted 18/08/2010 at 09:30:33

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Michael Brien, let's go through your particular brand of 'non-bullshit' shall we?

"Eugene - the post referred directly to the impending take over of Blackburn Rovers. I think it is 4 posts that you have made in this debate and you have made 2 very tenuous references to Blackburn Rovers"

Yes Michael, you see the post REFERS to Blackburn (well spotted!) but ONLY in relation to an issue that is Everton-related (clue: Tofeeweb is an Everton site).

So to be clear, the post is actually Everton-related

Another clue is that the post finishes by asking the question 'what have Rovers got that we haven't?"

The 'we' being Everton

THAT is THE point of the post.

If the point was merely to discuss the possibility of Blackburn having a new owner, it would be on a Blackburn site wouldn't it (figured out how this works yet?)

You continue..

"You have the nerve to refer to Kenwright as being full of bullshit - if anyone is guilty of that then I would say it is you".

Like it, very clever, VERY clever the way you turned that round - smart as a whip!

But hold on - 'nerve'?

Why nerve?

Why do I have a 'nerve'?

I didn't call Mother Theresa a cunt.

At worst all I did was point out a man not know for his honesty might not be being..um...honest.

But you know what - fine, I'm happy to go along with the 'you're the bullshitter' thing... AS LONG as YOU can provide SPECIFIC instances of my bullshitting.

In fact, here's an idea. You point out my lies, I'll point out Bill's, we'll tot them up and then we'll KNOW who the bullshitter is (by bullshitter you DO mean liar', don't you? Or just someone who disagrees with you and gets on your tits?)

If you are successful, we can CERTAINLY discuss further; if not, I respectfully suggest you wind your fucking neck in.

I won't go into the rest of your post as it was just repeating other people's guesswork.

A final thought, Michael.

Even if I WAS a top spoofer, so what?

My Tom Pepperyness wouldn't affect Everton - I'd just be (an odd but harmless) liar

But this post is asking why other clubs seem to attract buyers but not us.

None of the following is my opinion, lies or theory.

BK: ?I have said for years that I am constantly on the lookout for investment for Everton"

From the revised Planning Statement (document 18) released April 2008 released by Tesco.

6.10 "A further point that is of relevance to any debate on the options that might be available to the Club to fund a new stadium, is the willingness and abilities of the Club?s directors to sell some or all of their interests in the Club in order to attract an investor who or which might have the ability in financial terms to fund a new stadium in its entirety or at the very least fund the shortfall that exists in the context of this proposals. As is pointed out in greater detail in the financial statement document 26), this is not an option as the current directors have no intention of selling any of their interests in the Club"

Look forward to being called a frothing dog snarling sheep bullshitter blah by the (cue Barry White VO plus sultry tenor sax) 'Kenwright leurvers'...
Nick Flack
83   Posted 18/08/2010 at 10:37:33

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One of the best things about being an Evertonian, is we are different form the "glory hunters" following other teams. Man Citeh used to be the same... Tradition is king and all that.

Reading this post has reminded me why I stopped talking about footy in the pub on a friday night, a lot of shouting but very little sense.

You really want our club "owned" by some individual? Go follow the reds or chelsea.


Post number 10 by Mike Cloherty, he must be the designated driver. Well said the sober man.
Lee Smith
84   Posted 18/08/2010 at 10:58:21

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Eugene (#82) "Why do I have a 'nerve'? I didn't call Mother Theresa a cunt."

I HATE using acronyms, but I am P...M....S...L......!!!
Anthony Hughes
85   Posted 18/08/2010 at 10:49:51

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While were hanging around patting ourselves on the back about how were not glory hunters and "doing things the right way,tradition and all that,"then we'll be left behind.What happens 5 years,10 years down the line,no money,no new stadium,no money for players.Like it or not but football as has changed and if we can't move with what is happening then we could end up as complete and utter also rans.
Ciarán McGlone
86   Posted 18/08/2010 at 11:09:50

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Now anybody who disagrees with the luvvies is drunk...Classic.
Ernie Baywood
87   Posted 18/08/2010 at 11:12:03

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For £100m to spend read £100m worth of players and £100m worth of debt.

We can't service that debt with our revenue. Neither, I'll guess, can Blackburn.

Just because this guy can borrow it (and Bill can't) doesn't me he should.
Brian Denton
88   Posted 18/08/2010 at 11:32:21

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It would be interesting to see a Toffeeweb Poll on the lines of

"Would you rather see Everton as a stable club of also- rans or one owned by a foreign billionaire"

I would vote for the former.

Last season Chelsea won the Double. Up until the Premier League winning the Double was an incredibly rare feat, and came up in pub quiz questions. Now it has no rarity value at all. I long for the day when the Premiership in its current form collapses. Till then, I'll stick with what we've got, thanks.
David Thomas
89   Posted 18/08/2010 at 11:45:53

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Alan Williams 72,

Best post in this whole thread.
Afzan Yusuf
90   Posted 18/08/2010 at 11:56:40

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Behind us fans.... "Everton is NOT for sale"

What can we do about it.... :(
Eugene Ruane
91   Posted 18/08/2010 at 11:49:16

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Drunk?

More the merrier - add it to the list!

"Drunk bullshitting snarling frothing sheep snarling drinking mad dogs frothy beer cage rattling snarling it's frothy man cage fighting Bill hating grrrr snarl"
Thor Sørensen
92   Posted 18/08/2010 at 11:57:03

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Blackburn's just a little town!

Even if 100% of its population was Indian, the borough of Blackburn with Darwen only has about 140k inhabitants. The metropolitan county of Merseyside has 1.5 million people living there.
Kevin Tully
93   Posted 18/08/2010 at 12:18:12

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The whole house of cards will soon fall in on all of football. Barca are finding themselves in massive debt, and are having trouble paying their wage bill. They fill their stadium, play the best football in the world, sell the most merchandise etc.. Where does this leave the rest rest of us ?

As soon as Sky start to believe the product or brand of Premier League football is dwindling, or subscriptions are not being renewed, there will be carnage. You cannot run any business with mounting losses year on year.

Portsmouth is the first in the Premier League. There will be more. The redshite may even go into administration come October, so there is some good to come out of all this.
Michael Brien
94   Posted 18/08/2010 at 12:19:40

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Eugene - "nerve "- because you do exactly what you accuse Kenwright of doing. As regards the comparisons with Blackburn - they are a smaller club - why have they attracted a buyer and we haven't? That's a good question - but are they in a better position than us because it seems that such a deal is going to go through?

1) Apparently this deal has taken about 3 years of negotiations.

2)There have been several clubs that have had new owners - I am sure that we can remember seeing said new owner of club * being paraded before the media, wearing the appropriate club scarf/hat etc. Yes and we can all no doubt recall the various promises. And in the majority of cases these have proved to be empty.

It seems to be widely assumed that all at Ewood Park is now hunky dory - they will be matching Siteh in the transfer market and as sure as night follows day they will be challenging for a Champions League spot and indeed winning it in a couple of years time.

This is not necessarily going to be the outcome and as I stated before if I was a Rovers fan I would be rather cautious. Only time will tell if this is going to be good for Blackburn and some seem to be letting envy cloud their thinking.

Ciarán McGlone
95   Posted 18/08/2010 at 12:41:58

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Why do some people think football falling flat on its face is a good thing for us... Can someone who actually believes this have a stab at answering it...??

Kevin Tully
96   Posted 18/08/2010 at 12:49:35

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Ciaran, new level playing field for all clubs possibly? Rugby league business model of a wage cap? Simplistic I know, but if we do not have a competitive structure in any sport, the public will eventually lose interest. American football recognised this a long time ago. I predict there will be that many clubs going into administration, action will be forced upon governing bodies. Austerity measures have not even begun to take effect around the globe. To believe football will not be affected is plainly naive.
Anthony Hughes
97   Posted 18/08/2010 at 12:53:18

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Without the Sky TV money coming into our club, I could well imagine we'd be right up shit creek with only our hands as paddles. If the Premier League collapses in its current form, just how do we compete with the clubs with larger attendances, bigger fan bases, better organised merchandising and sales policies, and higher profiles with potential to bring in lucrative sponsors? Our board lurches from one fuck up to the next, if we have to stand on our own two feet and bring in revenue without the Sky millions, then God help us.
Ernie Baywood
98   Posted 18/08/2010 at 13:05:07

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I suspect we'd be wound up in no time. But then so would most clubs.
Anthony Hughes
99   Posted 18/08/2010 at 13:02:03

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A wage cap is non-starter unless you have it across worldwide leagues, no good capping here at £20k a week and the Spaniards will double or treble wages, you wouldn't attract any players to this country.
Ciarán McGlone
100   Posted 18/08/2010 at 13:08:09

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I think you're right Ernie.

Kevin, I can't see how it will create a level playing field for all clubs..some will go to the wall, some won't.

Personally I think there's very little chance of football imploding, People will always want to watch football and coverage will only increase...the same people will probably still be coming off with the same dire warning in 20 years time...

To be honest warnings about money in football are as old as football itself.
Michael Brien
101   Posted 18/08/2010 at 13:08:34

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Ciaran - I would not want to see football flat on its face. However, I would like to greater financial resposibilty shown. There is a lot of money in the "football industry" - the vast majority of which goes to a select few - mainly certain players and their agents.

I believe that Barcelona could not afford to pay their players in June, how on earth could they then contemplate signing Fabregas from Arsenal? It is shameful that certain clubs can carry massive debts, measured in hundreds of millions, whilst a club like Chester can go under with a debt that is lpbr /> We keep hearing how wonderful the Premiership is - usually from the media in this country. Yet the Bundesliga has a higher average attendance. Borrussia Dortmund for example had a higher average attendance than Man Utd - yet they were never really in the title race last season. You can pay £15 - £20 to see a club in League 2 in England (the old Division 4) - for the same amount you can see the likes of Bayern Munich in Germany.

In many countries in mainland Europe, football is still a game of the people. Over here the ordinary working class people are being priced out. Sooner or later fans will have had enough and this will be seen in attendances. The money that there is in football needs to be distributed more evenly. It may not seem like it to the big guns of Man United etc - but the likes of Marine and Southport are just as important to the continuing good of the game.

Brian Denton
102   Posted 18/08/2010 at 12:57:57

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Well, Ciaran, I happen to believe that the determinants of success should be;

(i) Large and passionate fan base;
(ii) Good management;
(iii) Attractive football

Above all, it should be (i) which brings in the vast bulk of a company's revenue via gate receipts, not through a wealthy individual's pockets (or more likely through his 'investment trusts' and the like - I suspect very few of these billionaires will lose out from their own pockets in the way that you and I understand the term). I think I could honestly say that I wouldn't take any pride as a City fan in watching them hoover up prizes in the next few years.

To return to your question, if football imploded it would at least level the playing field and make the boxes we DO tick (see above) more important than they currently are.
Kevin Tully
103   Posted 18/08/2010 at 13:29:41

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Ciaran, Portsmouth nearly went out of existence a couple of weeks ago, there are winding up orders flying around from HMRC Cardiff can't pay for transfer fees, and have had 5 winding up petitions against the club. They then go and sign their highest ever earner. I could go on.

I am no expert, but doesn't this tell you there is something intrisically wrong with football's finances, and business model? There may have been warnings about money in football, but I can't remember so many clubs being taken to court for unpaid taxes. Agents are becoming millionaires from solitary deals, and clubs are going to the wall. It is unsustainable.
Phil Bellis
104   Posted 18/08/2010 at 13:05:02

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In an attempt to simplify and clarify re "Kenwright-hating"
I don't hate Bill Kenwright
I don't love Bill kenwright
I support Everton Football Club
Bill Kenwright has great influence over Everton Football Club
Bill Kenwright is a proven liar
I, therefore, don't believe everything he says
I seem to remember discussing with Alan re the Kirkby lies on this point - was it you Alan who argued that is was fine and acceptable to lie in the business world?
My response to that was I wouldn't like to do business with you - or Bill
Duncan McDine
105   Posted 18/08/2010 at 13:55:50

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There's a little hamlet nearby with about 6 or 7 houses, and an indian restaurant. That's is surely comparable with the percentage in Blackburn.

The sunday league team could be this investor's 'plan B'.
Ciarán McGlone
106   Posted 18/08/2010 at 14:00:10

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Kevin,

Businesses go to the wall everyday. Just because a couple of badly run business in a certain scetor fail doesn't mean the sector is doomed. There is money to be made, and it will continue to be made. There is no doubt something morally reprehensible about the obscene amounts of money that drive commercial football...But citing this fact, and using it as proof that a financial implosion is imminent are two very different things.

I see no evidence of any implosion at all...In fact the SKY contracts have increased in value since the start of tehe worlwide recession.

Anyway, that's somewhat of a digression. There appears to be a modicum of opinion in the Toffeeweb subtext - that an implosion would be good for Everton under the stewardship of Kenwright...I think it would be anything but...
Eugene Ruane
107   Posted 18/08/2010 at 13:24:26

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Michael Brien you say..

"Eugene - "nerve "- because you do exactly what you accuse Kenwright of doing"

Really - how insightful of you!

Well ok, if you're right, you will presumably have NO problem listing EXACTLY what I'm doing, that is EXACTLY the same as Kenwright.

I mean actual specifics (or are you deliberately trying to come across like a 5 year old who thinks "yeah well, so are you!" is debate)

You see I need help with this, because I don't actually remember trying to move Everton from a city to a town, or promising a free ground only later for free to mean £78m (AK that's your cue "Oh no, not this again...blah sheep frothing")

I also don't remember saying the money for King's dock was 'ring-fenced'.

I also may have had opinions and theories you think complete bollocks, but nothing that could be described a deliberate lie intended to deceive.

So let's have it then!

You are MORE than entitled to disagree, but if you make a statement, have the nuts to back it up.

Otherwise you come across like Pee Wee Herman - "I know you are but what am I?"

And here's the REALLY important bit.

If your brain takes in nothing else, try to remember this.

Naturally, I don't believe I'M 'talking shit' but...It wouldn't matter if I was.

In fact it wouldn't matter if I ran through Walton, bollocko with my nudger stuck up a chicken's 'tea-towel holder', singing 'Aggableedindoo' (me not the chicken) because...

I'm - not - in - charge - of - Everton - Football - club.

Kevin Tully
108   Posted 18/08/2010 at 14:25:51

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Ciaran,

Maybe this will change your veiwpoint:

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/the-debt-league-how-much-do-clubs-owe-1912244.html

Michael Brien
109   Posted 18/08/2010 at 14:27:44

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Eugene - the debate seems to me to centre around comparisons with clubs such as Blackburn that are on the verge of being bought/have just been bought. Most of your posts whilst you have made the odd point here and there seem to be in the majority of cases loaded with abuse, usually directed at those who would dare to disagree with you. You make a great deal of being entitled to your opinion - which indeed you are. However, you appear to suggest by your abuse that anyone who disagrees with you isn't entitled to their opinion.

You rather patronisingly state:
"Eugene - "nerve "- because you do exactly what you accuse Kenwright of doing"

Really - how insightful of you!

Well actually possibly it is a good point/insightful though I doubt if you meant it as a compliment - Why? Well you claim that Kenwright is intolerant of others' views/fond of his own opinion? Isn't that exactly how you are?

ps - Not a great advocate of the Queen's English myself - but wonder if you are capable of posting a reply without any abuse. It's not anything about being prudish - it's just that if you can only back up your opinions by being abusive, I think it shows limitations in your arguments.

Duncan McDine
110   Posted 18/08/2010 at 14:54:54

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Ciarán - I have plenty of opinions that could easily upset others, and for that reason, keep them to myself (usually).

We're all guilty of abusing the anonymity of internet chat rooms, and come out with shite we wouldn't dream of saying to someone in a face-to-face chat.

You have the same level of tact and sensitivity as my Mum (bless her), when on holiday in Ireland cheerily mentioned to a local that they must think we're all "protestant bastards"!!!
Kevin Tully
111   Posted 18/08/2010 at 14:55:14

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Ciaran,

The subtext you refer to is subjective to whatever spin you decide upon, to give your arguments reason or basis. The facts of bank owned debt cannot be ignored.

Please research where LFC are as a business right now. Commonly known as the most successful club in the history of British football, their future is being decided by a balace sheet and RBS.
Eugene Ruane
112   Posted 18/08/2010 at 15:37:21

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Michael Brien - your response is genuinely pitiful.

Let me tell you something.

You BEG for abuse because you can't deal with facts.

Instead you seem to deal in incredibly loose interpretations of what you THINK someone wrote or what you WANT them to have written (to suit whatever is going on in your head).

Abuse?

REALLY?

For the most part, I actually try to refrain from real abuse (sarcasm, like-for-like responses, guilty)

In fact, I'm 99% sure that the only time I resort to it (feel free to check ANY post) is when someone has had a pop first.

In fact I'll make it dead easy for you.

Why not check THIS thread for instance.

You'll find I had said nothing AT ALL (no abuse or anything else) about anything you had posted.

Then you posted this...

"Eugene - the post referred directly to the impending take over of Blackburn Rovers. I think it is 4 posts that you have made in this debate and you have made 2 very tenuous references to Blackburn Rovers. You have the nerve to refer to Kenwright as being full of bullshit - if anyone is guilty of that then I would say it is you. Perhaps you should try a career in Politics - specifically the Lib - Dems - they seem to be rather full of bullshit at the moment"

So, fact - it was YOU who referred to my opinions as bullshit.

See?

Can - you - see?

Don't get me wrong, t wasn't a big problem, I'm a big boy and can take it..............and I can give it!

And now YOU'RE the injured party?

Now we have YOU whining like a big soft kid because YOU'RE being given 'abuse'?.

Grow a fucking pair! (strictly that's advice, not abuse).

And one more thing - what about the list?

The specifics?

As I expected, you came back with nothing

You actually appear to be making up what was written as you go along (nb: stuff that can be checked in seconds)

You say I make a 'big deal' about being entitled to my opinion?

WHERE!?

Copy and paste so we can ALL see (having 'written' it, I'd LOVE to read it)

And (this is REALLY odd) here's the closest you got to an 'explanation' as to why I'm no different than Kenwright.

"Well you claim that Kenwright is intolerant of others view/fond of his own opinion, Isn't that what you are?"

Fuckin EH!!??

Question - are you drunk?

I've no doubt said or inferred (many times) he's a liar, full of shit, a bullshitter, not to be trusted, incompetent, small-time, skint but...EH!!??

If you can find ANY post on here (OR ANYWHERE ELSE), where my main criticism of BK has been he is..

"intolerant of others view/fond of his own opinion" - 500 nicker to the charity of your choice!

Which I'm guessing would be the R.S.F.T.W.C.D.I.O.B.C.T.I

(Royal Society For Those Who Can Dish It Out But Can't Take It).

There's an old Laurel & Hardy short - 'Beau Chumps' - where Stan reads a 'Dear John' letter to Ollie (coz Ollie can't find is glasses).

The news is bad and Ollie is totally crestfallen.

Stan says "What's the matter?"

Ollie responds (surprised and a little angry) "Didn't you just read it!?"

Stan says "Yeah but I wasn't listening".

I have a feeling something very similar is happening with you and the posts of others on TW.
Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
113   Posted 18/08/2010 at 17:08:32

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Cairan, what an idiotic fucking stunt to pull. The consequence will be only too familiar, Im sure. All related silliness in this thread has been purged... BEHAVE!

And Michael Brien, valiant effort (well, I'm being kind...) but Eugene is eating you for breakfast, lunch and dinner. I think you should consider withdrawing from this particular effort.

Guy Wilkinson
114   Posted 18/08/2010 at 17:08:53

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Reasons for investing in Prem League clubs

1- Cash generating business

2- Underexploited foreign rights (excluding TV)

3- Gives something "solid" to leverage against without risking own cash - can take advantage of cheap borrowing.

4- Kudos, had anyone heard of this Indian dude before last week?
Michael Brien
115   Posted 18/08/2010 at 18:03:09

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Michael Kenrick - I understood the main point of the debate centred around the takeover of football clubs - with the specific example of the impending takeover/buying of Blackburn Rovers - and the fact that this appears to put us at something of a disadvantage.
I do not necessarily think that it does put us at a disadvantage. Yes the cry is usually why does nobody seem keen on investing in/buying Everton ? But how many of these buyers/investors would we really want to see taking over Everton ? Anyone would be better than Kenwright is no doubt what many people would say !! On reflection I don't think that is the case. There have been too many of these buyers that have proved to be " too good to be true" - ask any Portsmouth supporter.
I have yet to see any evidence from Eugene that would convince me that such a takeover is a guaranteed route to the sucess and glory that we want to see for Everton. As I have stated if I was a Blackburn fan I would be greeting this new with very cautious optimism. Remember the bright new era that was going to be heralded in at Upton Park - courtesy of wealth from Iceland ?
Oh and Eugene not Royal Society - I am anything but a Royalist. I have had a quick look at some of the points that you have made - I can't see anywhere where you say anything specific about how these guys would put their money in Everton rather than Blackburn. Indeed they are supposed to be Blackburn Rovers supporters. Well why haven't they come forward before now ? Are they going to make £100M available for Blackburn Rovers to spend ? I have my doubts and I think that before we start "looking on with envy" at events at Ewood Park - we should see exactly what happens.
Karl Masters
116   Posted 18/08/2010 at 15:51:26

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Last week everybody was optimistically looking forward to a new season.

Now, following one defeat, ironically at Blackburn, everybody is at each other's throats!

This has been the best thread I have read in months!!!! :)

Frothing dogs, snarling apologists, religious sidetracking, utter, utter bollox about the ethnic composition of Blackburn and South Liverpool, Mother Teresa as well. A classic thread! I have roared with laughter reading some of this.

And I would also like to request the removal of Chris Butler's highly offensive assertion that Chelsea have more fans than us! 7,700 at home to Southampton in February 1993 pre all the glory hunters is all you need to know, Chris.

In amongst it all though sanity and many people hiting the nail on the head with the simple fact that Everton FC is not for Sale. BK is only looking for another Board member who will lump in loads of cash. Nobody, but nobody is likely to ever put in say £200m to build a stadium or clear the debts and buy players without being given total control. Like Ken Bates at Chelsea, when Abramovich came along and he wanted to stay on. He lasted a season and was eventually moved on, which was only right really. BK appears to want to have his cake and eat it.
Kevin Hudson
117   Posted 18/08/2010 at 19:58:39

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I think I would be rather sceptical if some sugar-daddy suddenly showed his hand, but I do have the sense that we have to keep up with the Joneses.

Given that English clubs are now fashionably the must-have billionaire accessory, it is becoming clearer that Bill's assurances seem increasingly paper-thin, and I wonder if his silent partners have his hands tied...
Andy Crooks
118   Posted 18/08/2010 at 21:12:13

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What a strange thread, It seems to me that the mention of Bill Kenwright in a post starts as fierce a debate as ToffeeWeb gets. My own view would probably be similar to Karl's. In my view the site is best just at the point where things get out of hand. I have been on the receiving end of quite a few pointed jibes but I think it's par for the course on a football website with opinionated contributors. If you can't take it, don't dish it out.
Darren Dempsey
119   Posted 18/08/2010 at 22:34:16

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Why do we all go off on one every time a club looks like being sold (me included)? It's the same old same old! If we get sold then it will happen when it happens... let's all take it in our stride otherwise one of us blues will have a massive stroke! We all know that we would be one of the best clubs to invest in... if not THE BEST!

COYB

Dennis Stevens
120   Posted 18/08/2010 at 22:53:26

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They can take it, but they can't dish it out? - Must be one-armed waiters!
Please excuse the digression.
Andy Crooks
121   Posted 19/08/2010 at 00:17:15

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Nice one, Dennis.
Tony X Williams
122   Posted 19/08/2010 at 04:45:39

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Ok guys, getting back to the Trifle and not the trifleling... from Kevin's link in post #108, it shows that Blackburn's debt is £20M with our debt at £40M. Now in the big scheme of things that extra £20M is peanuts considering our history, tradition, fan base support both at home and abroad... I could go on and on. So again, why Blackburn not us. On the surface it just doesn't seem to make sense.
Karl Masters
123   Posted 19/08/2010 at 15:00:34

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Bloody Hell Tony Kiss!

Don't you get it by now?

Everton is not up for Sale, the only thing BK is looking for is somebody to join the Board, sit in the background ( like Jon Woods, I bet you wouldn't know him if you sat next to him on a train ) while BK hogs the limelight, BUT ( and this is the issue )..... pump in tens or hundreds of milions of quid for the privelege.

Would anybody sane, or even nearly sane like us with our blue tinted spectacles, ever do that? If you won £90m on the Euromillions would you just join the Board, give over the cash and be virtually anonymous? Of course not and that is the problem. The Goodison stage is only big enough for one.

It has to be the biggest reason, whilst stadium issues, lack of profile abroad etc are much smaller ones.

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