It is my view that other than, as an impact substitution, the day of the tricky winger has, at least temporarily, gone. Lennon. Wright-Philips and Walcott who promised so much have not delivered at the highest level. Now it seems that Izmailov might just be a possible signing for Everton.
Of course,he's not a tricky winger but a quick attacking midfielder who can play wide right. At his best, fit and managed tenderly he could maybe do a job for us wide right. At his worst he could be our new AVDM. Is it worth the risk? I suggest not. I believe the solution to our wide right problem is at the club. Yes, step forward Seamus Coleman.
Many contributors to the site have reservations about Seamus as a defender. I don't, but crucially I think David Moyes does. Most agree that going forward, however, he can be an effective threat. He doesn't beat a full back like the tricky winger but he has pace can run at and unsettle a defender and most importantly he can cross from deep.
If Tim Cahill must play then I feel he will be more effective with Coleman playing. With Bily playing instead of Tim behind whoever one feels is our best lone striker, Coleman still offers an option that was desperately missing at Blackburn. He puts in a shift and would make us solid on the right. Gosling with pace.
Leon Osman is lost on the right, Vic would be a short term fix. The solution is under our nose. Give him a chance.
Andy Crooks, Posted 19/08/2010 at 00:18:40
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1 Posted 19/08/2010 at 00:50:04
[BTW, Andy, sorry I had to change your title: "Cometh the hour?" is a bit hackneyed. I like titles that are less cryptic.]
2 Posted 19/08/2010 at 00:58:56
3 Posted 19/08/2010 at 01:13:32
His loan period only showed the tip of the iceberg. He's the guy who doesn't have to be Captain to lead the team.
Sign him up, Moyes.
4 Posted 19/08/2010 at 01:06:16
I love Coleman's mazy runs, but I don't think he is a midfielder. I agree with David that he would work in the 4-2-3-1 where there would be cover if he was caught out going forward. But he is a defender firstly, and if he could put a few last-gasp Tony Hibbert ? type tackles along with his attacking prowess, he would be the business.
The great thing about it though, is that I suspect Coleman knows this himself. He is a level headed lad from Co. Donegal; he knows where he comes from and where he is now at. I wouldn't throw him in against Malouda/Cole, Nani/Evra, and company just yet. But he should get a few opportunities in the first team season, and then next season who knows? Quite possibly first choice right-back.
5 Posted 19/08/2010 at 01:38:15
It worked wonders for Bale at Spurs. Surely worth trying! Sadly, I expect to see Osman out there again next match though.
6 Posted 19/08/2010 at 02:19:04
Just get Landon and watch.
7 Posted 19/08/2010 at 06:19:46
I believe Moyes has hung his hat on Vic, he played him on the right for half-a-dozen games before the Nolan Assault and although Vic has had several niggling injuries since his return, Moyes plays him there at every opportunity.
James: I admire your support for your boy too, but I`m afraid you can't wish this so, first of all Moyes tries to let you down gently by saying Landon would cost too much... and then he goes further by saying he may not even want him on loan. Read the signs, James, they are in big Neon lights, if Landon ever comes back, it`ll be strictly short-term.
Moyes picks this team and he obviously doesn't rate Landon or Seamus as highly as you guys do.
8 Posted 19/08/2010 at 07:56:24
9 Posted 19/08/2010 at 08:38:58
I couldn't agree more about Shaun Wright-Phillips. SWP actually stands for Shite Wing Play...
Regarding Coleman though; I think there will be occasions where playing him in a more advanced role ? in front of a naturally defensive full-back ? will be useful and, considering Moyes's love of versatility, I'd be surprised if he doesn't try it this season.
10 Posted 19/08/2010 at 09:19:17
But there are not many defenders with the ability of Coleman going forward, and I can see Coleman being one of the best full backs in the league if he works at his defensive nous. He's not a bad defender now, he just needs to improve.
In my opinion the world's best full backs are comfortable (maybe more so) going forward as well as defending. Coleman may not be one of the world's best but because of that potential.
Though as short term and maybe impact players, I would put him there as his way of going forward is different to any winger we have.
But personally I'd rather buy Izmailov. I just remember how good he was against us. £4 million seems like a bargain too.
11 Posted 19/08/2010 at 09:57:06
COLEMAN IS NOT A WINGER (same goes for Baines, another possibility people have tried to put forward on these pages), and I would love for the incessant chatter that Seamus is the solution to all our woes to cease. It irks me almost as much as the Football Manager players that push for us to play a 3-5-2 just because we have a couple of attacking full-backs on our books.
I believe the Coleman as a winger theory must have come from seeing Bale move forward to a left midifeld position successfuly. For me, Coleman does not have the ability that Bale does and would not be a good enough right midfielder. On top of that, Bale plays left side of a 4, so is an 'orthodox' left midfielder. If Coleman moved forward from right back for us, he would be playing further forward even than Bale... and one thing he is certainly not is a forward.
I would like to see the lad given a shot at right-back though, as Neville and Hibbert still fail to convince they're up to the job there (in my eyes, at least).
This isn't an attack at anyone, so no need to attack back. And I recognise that this site is designed for people to put forward suggestions such as this, so that we can all discuss. Just something that I needed to get out of my system! And as I say, I'd love to be proven wrong, as I think the lack of a right-sided attacking player is the most obvious concern we have (other than reverting to negative/hoofball tactics every so often, when we're clearly far more successful playing on-the-deck attacking football).
12 Posted 19/08/2010 at 10:12:09
If Everton haven't taught you anything by now its that we have to go with what we have; right now, Anichebe has this curious undefined injury which leaves only Coleman as a right sided attacking player ? note, Graham, not winger. If we have to go with what we have then giving Coleman a shot out on the right can't be any worse than putting Osman or Cahill or Bily out there as all three are useless in that position and offer nothing whatsoever so in effect putting us down to 9 useful outfield players when we go forward.
13 Posted 19/08/2010 at 10:26:59
Personally, I think the two best options we have there are Anichebe and Bily. The latter is out-of-form, but is still new to this league so could yet come good (clearly has the ability).
The problem being that he's not an orthodox winger, and really you'd want one of the two wide players (the other being Pienaar) to hug the line, to give us some width. Otherwise, you're relying solely on full-backs to provide it.
However, as you mention we don't have many options there - giving Coleman a run at RB and Bily in front of him for a few games would be a more sensible option that Coleman in front of Neville/Hibbert - by my reckoning..
14 Posted 19/08/2010 at 10:31:27
It seems to be that many people believe that footballers are destined to one position for their whole career, but this isn't the case. Footballers will adapt to new positions, and I believe with Coleman's given attributes to play wide right wouldn't be a problem at all. I mean the other two right-backs are ultra defensive, which would balance out Seamus ability going forward.
You know we even have players in the team who have changed positions midway through their Everton career, for example, Arteta, who changed from a tricky winger to a deep lying midfielder which is arguably a bigger jump than Coleman will make.
15 Posted 19/08/2010 at 10:33:49
I don't know who we could get but there is certainly a gettable better option out there...
16 Posted 19/08/2010 at 10:53:37
James, Arteta was played by DM as a winger but historically was a CM in his days at PSG, outshining Ronaldinho, hence Rangers bought him where they too play him at CM; it always has been his strongest position.
17 Posted 19/08/2010 at 10:42:01
I can't take much more of Capt' Pip or Hibbo behind Ozzy or Tim on the right. With any combination of them on that side we look like a team that's suffered a stroke! ? no communication & total paralysis down the right side...
18 Posted 19/08/2010 at 11:09:47
I disagree about playing Seamus on the wing. He may not be a great defender but neither is Leighton Baines. I also disagree with the sudden clamour for 4-2-3-1
In my mind playing the formation we have played for years and everyone is comfortable with, with attacking intent and full back's who burst forward at every single opportunity is the way forward.
A right side of Victor and Seamus would not be great defensively, but teams would be frightened to commit men forward knowing the pace, power and direct running we have on our right hand side. This would make us a real threat on the counter and would be very difficult for opposition managers to counter given Victor's size and strength. It would also give us someone to challenge for the inevitable punt's forward we all love so much.
The player's are good enough, we have seen that our current system can work, on our day we can beat anyone the only question is the manager brave enough to really go for it? If not get set for another season of what if.
19 Posted 19/08/2010 at 11:18:38
20 Posted 19/08/2010 at 13:19:24
Where is this idea come from that Seamus has pace and "unbelievable fitness"? In all the matches I have watched he looks quite average in regards to pace and I have never once thought he looks "unbelievably fit"
Marc, Moyes's "stubborn petulence" probably comes from watching his team every minute in training and noticing which are the better ones, not basing it on a game and a half in the Premier League.
I hope the lad comes through and becomes a great for us but from the games I have watched with him, he still looks quite naive when defending, great going forward but at what cost?
And if we ever had a right side of a newcomer and Victor "hands on hips looking knacked after one sprint" Anichebe I would reckon the opposing manager would piss himself and order his team dowm our right every attack.
21 Posted 19/08/2010 at 13:33:27
I still don't like the thought of him on the wing though. He's best played at right-back with a clever midfielder infront of him, so he can get on the overlap (where he's most dangerous). Agree that Vic wouldn't compliment him on the right. I hope the big fella comes back from this unknown injury... just hope its not more problems from the Nolan "tackle".
22 Posted 19/08/2010 at 13:46:23
Coleman isn't blessed with great pace or skill (despite being reasonable at getting up and down from full-back), won't beat a man all ends consistently, won't score goals and won't link play as well as Pienaar or Bily will. Simply, I don't see it.
The alternative to Anichebe or Bily, might actually be Beckford come to think of it... he's got a bit of pace, the ability to beat a man possibly, and is definitely a goal threat. I'd much rather a forward on the right hand side of our 'top 3' than a defender, that's for sure!
Agree with Duncan, that Coleman's attacking attributes are best utilised from full-back, on the overlap.
23 Posted 19/08/2010 at 13:54:08
24 Posted 19/08/2010 at 14:05:04
25 Posted 19/08/2010 at 14:13:21
Also, I would have to agree with Tony, I can't see many of the top teams being scared of Coleman and Anichebe... for example, I can't see them giving Cole and Malouda many sleepless night.
As Graeme Sharp said recently, let's trust David Moyes to work with Seamus in training on a regular basis and develop his game and when he is ready to consistently play at Premier League level and be a real asset to the team, he will be thrown in.
26 Posted 19/08/2010 at 14:19:44
Apart from the Europa game where he was played at left back, which he obviously isnt he has defended well for us when he's played and defended well for Blackpool the whole of last season.
I know Hibbo and Nev dont like to venture much over the halfway line because of their "defensive" state of mind but as Coleman has proved when he has played he presents a threat that we dont cureently have down the right flank i.e. the ability and willingness to overlap AND put a decent cross/pass in to finish.
27 Posted 19/08/2010 at 14:42:21
An example for me would be the 2nd Cardiff goal in the play-off final, where he seemed to get caught out by Ledley's run. You could see Tony Hibbert making a last ditch tackle in a case like that.
28 Posted 19/08/2010 at 15:18:25
29 Posted 19/08/2010 at 17:33:41
Sadly, wasn't that a major contributing factor in the loss of Wayne Rooney? Moyes just does not appear willing to take some risks and be more adventurous with young or less-experienced players, and I find it maddening. I know all the counter-arguments and they cut no ice with me, so please don't repeat them.
I hate to cite examples of other clubs but look what Villa did with those two kids last weekend. Nothing ventured, nothing gained: Ewood Park, 14 August 2010.
30 Posted 19/08/2010 at 17:44:13
No it's because we haven't got a decent player to play wide right and pratically all our midfield (and some forwards) have have been tried with limited success. Therefore to my mind 3-5-2 makes the most of the players available. Oh and I don't play Football league manager, I've got a life to lead
31 Posted 19/08/2010 at 17:49:16
As an an Irish man it would give me immense pleasure to see both play in the blue shirt but I can honestly say this is not blinkered judgement. I have been evangelical about both for some time and think David Moyes must give youth a chance.We have the answer under our nose. Believe.
32 Posted 19/08/2010 at 18:14:03
Gareth Bale was never a full back. Ever. He may have played there for Southampton in lower divisions (how did they do?) he may even have played there for Wales (and lost, presumably) and he played 20-odd games for Tottenham there WITHOUT EVER WINNING, but he was always out of position, and people wanted him to be a great attacking full back, when he's more like a decent wide midfielder.
33 Posted 19/08/2010 at 18:27:51
34 Posted 19/08/2010 at 18:36:16
35 Posted 19/08/2010 at 18:38:09
Job done. Well done.
And James Flynn ? if Moyes could just "go and get" Donovan, do you not think he'd already be in the fold? Not happening.
36 Posted 19/08/2010 at 20:11:31
I don't get why so many people are sure he`s the answer. How can they possibly know?
Can there have ever have been a player, anywhere, who has had so much said about him by so many, who have seen so little of him?
I wish to fuck Moyes would play him if only to put us all out of our misery.
37 Posted 19/08/2010 at 20:59:43
So we can't debate with you because you don't feel others rationalisations don't "cut no ice", strange line coming from the editor of a forum that instigates discussion threads.
38 Posted 19/08/2010 at 22:22:53
39 Posted 20/08/2010 at 09:04:46
Not a single top-flight team uses 3-5-2 as their default formation.
There's a reason for this (actually there's very probably more than one).
Namely, most teams now use variants of a system that has one central striker and very attacking wide men (often essentially wide forwards).
To have 3 centre-backs marking 1 is unnecessary, and to have no full-backs to deal with these wide forward players is dangerous.
I think that is the main reason for the decline of the system.
40 Posted 20/08/2010 at 11:42:49
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