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Right-wing trickster...

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It is my view that other than, as an impact substitution, the day of the tricky winger has, at least temporarily, gone. Lennon. Wright-Philips and Walcott who promised so much have not delivered at the highest level. Now it seems that Izmailov might just be a possible signing for Everton.

Of course,he's not a tricky winger but a quick attacking midfielder who can play wide right. At his best, fit and managed tenderly he could maybe do a job for us wide right. At his worst he could be our new AVDM. Is it worth the risk? I suggest not. I believe the solution to our wide right problem is at the club. Yes, step forward Seamus Coleman.

Many contributors to the site have reservations about Seamus as a defender. I don't, but crucially I think David Moyes does. Most agree that going forward, however, he can be an effective threat. He doesn't beat a full back like the tricky winger but he has pace can run at and unsettle a defender and most importantly he can cross from deep.

If Tim Cahill must play then I feel he will be more effective with Coleman playing. With Bily playing instead of Tim behind whoever one feels is our best lone striker, Coleman still offers an option that was desperately missing at Blackburn. He puts in a shift and would make us solid on the right. Gosling with pace.

Leon Osman is lost on the right, Vic would be a short term fix. The solution is under our nose. Give him a chance.
Andy Crooks, Belfast     Posted 19/08/2010 at 00:18:40

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Michael Kenrick
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1   Posted 19/08/2010 at 00:50:04

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Agreed; surely the obvious solution... but I can't see Moyes going for it. Coleman will be very lucky to get much if any game time, such is the way with Moyes and his young boys. Burnout, don't ya know. Not that he's actually all that young (22 in October).

[BTW, Andy, sorry I had to change your title: "Cometh the hour?" is a bit hackneyed. I like titles that are less cryptic.]
David Hallwood
2   Posted 19/08/2010 at 00:58:56

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Can't say that I agree with Andy on the tricky winger. Man U has always played with an out & out winger and they are the most successful club side in the Prem years. I think Coleman is tailor maid for a 4-2-3-1 system, but the bad news is that he's 3rd choice and is likely to stay there.
James Flynn
3   Posted 19/08/2010 at 01:13:32

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Just get Donovan in. Moyes puts on the right? FIne. LD's "tricky" anywhere on the pitch; borne of being the only true talent on so many teams for so many years.

His loan period only showed the tip of the iceberg. He's the guy who doesn't have to be Captain to lead the team.

Sign him up, Moyes.
Brendan O'Doherty
4   Posted 19/08/2010 at 01:06:16

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Can't agree with you about Lennon, Andy. Yes, there are less and less outright wingers around these days, but that makes the ones that are any good stand out. Lennon is electrifyingly fast, goes past defenders, and delivers the final ball. SWP is quick but tends to shoot himself when he gets near the area, and Walcott's final ball lets him down.

I love Coleman's mazy runs, but I don't think he is a midfielder. I agree with David that he would work in the 4-2-3-1 where there would be cover if he was caught out going forward. But he is a defender firstly, and if he could put a few last-gasp Tony Hibbert ? type tackles along with his attacking prowess, he would be the business.

The great thing about it though, is that I suspect Coleman knows this himself. He is a level headed lad from Co. Donegal; he knows where he comes from and where he is now at. I wouldn't throw him in against Malouda/Cole, Nani/Evra, and company just yet. But he should get a few opportunities in the first team season, and then next season who knows? Quite possibly first choice right-back.
James Stewart
5   Posted 19/08/2010 at 01:38:15

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It's been said many a time before but you are right. I fail to see the logic in playing Cahill or Osman wide right. Totally pointless and has been proved time and time again. Coleman would seem the obvious choice and I would personally like to see him tried there until we find a better solution. With Hibbert at right back behind him.

It worked wonders for Bale at Spurs. Surely worth trying! Sadly, I expect to see Osman out there again next match though.

James Flynn
6   Posted 19/08/2010 at 02:19:04

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The pitch is basically the same size as a century ago. Fuck the formations.

Just get Landon and watch.
Dave Wilson
7   Posted 19/08/2010 at 06:19:46

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I`ve admired your support for Coleman, Andy, although I`ve only seen him play an hour of top class football. He`s a crowd peaser alright, I was left in no doubt about that during the Everton V Everton game... but Seamus isn't getting a game on the right, even at a time when we have anybody else available. DM won't want to be seen to be led by public opinion and I suspect he has already dug his heels.

I believe Moyes has hung his hat on Vic, he played him on the right for half-a-dozen games before the Nolan Assault and although Vic has had several niggling injuries since his return, Moyes plays him there at every opportunity.

James: I admire your support for your boy too, but I`m afraid you can't wish this so, first of all Moyes tries to let you down gently by saying Landon would cost too much... and then he goes further by saying he may not even want him on loan. Read the signs, James, they are in big Neon lights, if Landon ever comes back, it`ll be strictly short-term.

Moyes picks this team and he obviously doesn't rate Landon or Seamus as highly as you guys do.
Ciarán McGlone
8   Posted 19/08/2010 at 07:56:24

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Another player played out of position... however, this one may have merit considering he doesn't seem to be able to defend.
Les Green
9   Posted 19/08/2010 at 08:38:58

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Brendan (4)
I couldn't agree more about Shaun Wright-Phillips. SWP actually stands for Shite Wing Play...

Regarding Coleman though; I think there will be occasions where playing him in a more advanced role ? in front of a naturally defensive full-back ? will be useful and, considering Moyes's love of versatility, I'd be surprised if he doesn't try it this season.
Ben Jones
10   Posted 19/08/2010 at 09:19:17

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Do not agree at all, Coleman is a defender and I'll tell you why. There are many wingers with the ability of Coleman going forward, he wouldn't be as good.

But there are not many defenders with the ability of Coleman going forward, and I can see Coleman being one of the best full backs in the league if he works at his defensive nous. He's not a bad defender now, he just needs to improve.

In my opinion the world's best full backs are comfortable (maybe more so) going forward as well as defending. Coleman may not be one of the world's best but because of that potential.

Though as short term and maybe impact players, I would put him there as his way of going forward is different to any winger we have.

But personally I'd rather buy Izmailov. I just remember how good he was against us. £4 million seems like a bargain too.
Graham Holliday
11   Posted 19/08/2010 at 09:57:06

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Ok, I've held off saying this for a while now for fear of it biting me in the bum... but I'll say it now, and will also put in a disclaimer that I would love to be proven wrong!

COLEMAN IS NOT A WINGER (same goes for Baines, another possibility people have tried to put forward on these pages), and I would love for the incessant chatter that Seamus is the solution to all our woes to cease. It irks me almost as much as the Football Manager players that push for us to play a 3-5-2 just because we have a couple of attacking full-backs on our books.

I believe the Coleman as a winger theory must have come from seeing Bale move forward to a left midifeld position successfuly. For me, Coleman does not have the ability that Bale does and would not be a good enough right midfielder. On top of that, Bale plays left side of a 4, so is an 'orthodox' left midfielder. If Coleman moved forward from right back for us, he would be playing further forward even than Bale... and one thing he is certainly not is a forward.

I would like to see the lad given a shot at right-back though, as Neville and Hibbert still fail to convince they're up to the job there (in my eyes, at least).

This isn't an attack at anyone, so no need to attack back. And I recognise that this site is designed for people to put forward suggestions such as this, so that we can all discuss. Just something that I needed to get out of my system! And as I say, I'd love to be proven wrong, as I think the lack of a right-sided attacking player is the most obvious concern we have (other than reverting to negative/hoofball tactics every so often, when we're clearly far more successful playing on-the-deck attacking football).

*And breathe*...
Gavin Ramejkis
12   Posted 19/08/2010 at 10:12:09

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The trouble I have right now is that DM doesn't have a Right Winger, Osman and Cahill and Bily are uselss on the wing and will never get better there, Anichebe showed potential as has Coleman.

If Everton haven't taught you anything by now its that we have to go with what we have; right now, Anichebe has this curious undefined injury which leaves only Coleman as a right sided attacking player ? note, Graham, not winger. If we have to go with what we have then giving Coleman a shot out on the right can't be any worse than putting Osman or Cahill or Bily out there as all three are useless in that position and offer nothing whatsoever so in effect putting us down to 9 useful outfield players when we go forward.

Graham Holliday
13   Posted 19/08/2010 at 10:26:59

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Gavin - agree 100% regarding Osman and Cahill in that position.

Personally, I think the two best options we have there are Anichebe and Bily. The latter is out-of-form, but is still new to this league so could yet come good (clearly has the ability).

The problem being that he's not an orthodox winger, and really you'd want one of the two wide players (the other being Pienaar) to hug the line, to give us some width. Otherwise, you're relying solely on full-backs to provide it.

However, as you mention we don't have many options there - giving Coleman a run at RB and Bily in front of him for a few games would be a more sensible option that Coleman in front of Neville/Hibbert - by my reckoning..
James Kerfoot
14   Posted 19/08/2010 at 10:31:27

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I've got to say I totally disagree with you Graham. I'm not having a go, I'm simply voicing my own opinion. Coleman has Pace, Trickery, is direct, can cross and has unbelievable fitness to bomb up and down the wings. Now given the other options we have availble in Osman, Anichebe and Billy, I don't believe any of them make a better right wing candidate than Seamus.

It seems to be that many people believe that footballers are destined to one position for their whole career, but this isn't the case. Footballers will adapt to new positions, and I believe with Coleman's given attributes to play wide right wouldn't be a problem at all. I mean the other two right-backs are ultra defensive, which would balance out Seamus ability going forward.

You know we even have players in the team who have changed positions midway through their Everton career, for example, Arteta, who changed from a tricky winger to a deep lying midfielder which is arguably a bigger jump than Coleman will make.

Chris Perry
15   Posted 19/08/2010 at 10:33:49

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Coleman or Donovan are not the answer for Everton's right-wing problem. We need a strong, pacey player and, as much as you rave on about it, neither of these two, along with Osman, are up to it.

I don't know who we could get but there is certainly a gettable better option out there...
Gavin Ramejkis
16   Posted 19/08/2010 at 10:53:37

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Graham, Bily is an old school inside right which doesn't exist in DM's or many other teams' formations anymore.

James, Arteta was played by DM as a winger but historically was a CM in his days at PSG, outshining Ronaldinho, hence Rangers bought him where they too play him at CM; it always has been his strongest position.

Marc Williams
17   Posted 19/08/2010 at 10:42:01

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I was gobsmacked that Coleman wasn't even on the bench for the Blackburn game, he must have been wishing he was back on loan and playing against Wigan....... Moyes needs to loose his stubborn petulance regarding this lad before he gets fucked off. It seems the more we clamour for him to get a run out, the more DM digs his heels in !

I can't take much more of Capt' Pip or Hibbo behind Ozzy or Tim on the right. With any combination of them on that side we look like a team that's suffered a stroke! ? no communication & total paralysis down the right side...
Stephen Kenny
18   Posted 19/08/2010 at 11:09:47

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I disagree about playing Seamus on the wing. He may not be a great defender but neither is Leighton Baines. I also disagree with the sudden clamour for 4-2-3-1

In my mind playing the formation we have played for years and everyone is comfortable with, with attacking intent and full back's who burst forward at every single opportunity is the way forward.

A right side of Victor and Seamus would not be great defensively, but teams would be frightened to commit men forward knowing the pace, power and direct running we have on our right hand side. This would make us a real threat on the counter and would be very difficult for opposition managers to counter given Victor's size and strength. It would also give us someone to challenge for the inevitable punt's forward we all love so much.

The player's are good enough, we have seen that our current system can work, on our day we can beat anyone the only question is the manager brave enough to really go for it? If not get set for another season of what if.
Ben Atkins
19   Posted 19/08/2010 at 11:18:38

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I don't see why Rodwell can't play on the right? Against City last season when he set up Arteta's goal he certainly looked like he could play there.
Tony J Williams
20   Posted 19/08/2010 at 13:19:24

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Holy Crap, if I saw a right side of Coleman and Anichebe I would cancel my season ticket.

Where is this idea come from that Seamus has pace and "unbelievable fitness"? In all the matches I have watched he looks quite average in regards to pace and I have never once thought he looks "unbelievably fit"

Marc, Moyes's "stubborn petulence" probably comes from watching his team every minute in training and noticing which are the better ones, not basing it on a game and a half in the Premier League.

I hope the lad comes through and becomes a great for us but from the games I have watched with him, he still looks quite naive when defending, great going forward but at what cost?

And if we ever had a right side of a newcomer and Victor "hands on hips looking knacked after one sprint" Anichebe I would reckon the opposing manager would piss himself and order his team dowm our right every attack.
Duncan McDine
21   Posted 19/08/2010 at 13:33:27

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Tony (18), did you watch much of pre-season? He is very quick, and keeps going up and down the line for 90 mins.

I still don't like the thought of him on the wing though. He's best played at right-back with a clever midfielder infront of him, so he can get on the overlap (where he's most dangerous). Agree that Vic wouldn't compliment him on the right. I hope the big fella comes back from this unknown injury... just hope its not more problems from the Nolan "tackle".
Graham Holliday
22   Posted 19/08/2010 at 13:46:23

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Was going to mention that Arteta was always a CM playing on the wing... he was brought in as Mad Dog's replacement if memory serves me?

Coleman isn't blessed with great pace or skill (despite being reasonable at getting up and down from full-back), won't beat a man all ends consistently, won't score goals and won't link play as well as Pienaar or Bily will. Simply, I don't see it.

The alternative to Anichebe or Bily, might actually be Beckford come to think of it... he's got a bit of pace, the ability to beat a man possibly, and is definitely a goal threat. I'd much rather a forward on the right hand side of our 'top 3' than a defender, that's for sure!

Agree with Duncan, that Coleman's attacking attributes are best utilised from full-back, on the overlap.
Gavin Ramejkis
23   Posted 19/08/2010 at 13:54:08

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Tony #18, have to ask if DM watches his players the most, then you'd think, after so many fucking years and countless shows when we have played actual competition, he would realise Osman isn't a winger ? but he still plays him there. I've posted before that I don't think Coleman is some new Cafu or our best defender but on the pre-season and the Spurs game he most certainly can offer something which neither Osman, or Cahill or Bily have on the right wing.
Duncan McDine
24   Posted 19/08/2010 at 14:05:04

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Gavin - Seamus was never played on the wing during pre-season or against Spurs.
David Thomas
25   Posted 19/08/2010 at 14:13:21

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Young Seamus is going to have a lot of pressure on his shoulders when he gets in our team, not only is he the answer to our right back issues he is now the answer to our right wing problems as well.

Also, I would have to agree with Tony, I can't see many of the top teams being scared of Coleman and Anichebe... for example, I can't see them giving Cole and Malouda many sleepless night.

As Graeme Sharp said recently, let's trust David Moyes to work with Seamus in training on a regular basis and develop his game and when he is ready to consistently play at Premier League level and be a real asset to the team, he will be thrown in.
Jay Harris
26   Posted 19/08/2010 at 14:19:44

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Why do people think Coleman cant defend?

Apart from the Europa game where he was played at left back, which he obviously isnt he has defended well for us when he's played and defended well for Blackpool the whole of last season.

I know Hibbo and Nev dont like to venture much over the halfway line because of their "defensive" state of mind but as Coleman has proved when he has played he presents a threat that we dont cureently have down the right flank i.e. the ability and willingness to overlap AND put a decent cross/pass in to finish.
Brendan O'Doherty
27   Posted 19/08/2010 at 14:42:21

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I don't think people are suggesting that he "can't defend" Jay, just that his defending could and will improve.

An example for me would be the 2nd Cardiff goal in the play-off final, where he seemed to get caught out by Ledley's run. You could see Tony Hibbert making a last ditch tackle in a case like that.
Gavin Ramejkis
28   Posted 19/08/2010 at 15:18:25

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Duncan, last 20 mins against Spurs last season he got man of the match in an advanced role running down the wing and played a peach of a cross from the by line
Michael Kenrick
29   Posted 19/08/2010 at 17:33:41

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David Thomas (#24): "... let's trust David Moyes to work with Seamus in training on a regular basis and develop his game and when he is ready to consistently play at Premier League level and be a real asset to the team, he will be thrown in."

Sadly, wasn't that a major contributing factor in the loss of Wayne Rooney? Moyes just does not appear willing to take some risks and be more adventurous with young or less-experienced players, and I find it maddening. I know all the counter-arguments and they cut no ice with me, so please don't repeat them.

I hate to cite examples of other clubs but look what Villa did with those two kids last weekend. Nothing ventured, nothing gained: Ewood Park, 14 August 2010.
David Hallwood
30   Posted 19/08/2010 at 17:44:13

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Graham Holliday 10# "It irks me almost as much as the Football Manager players that push for us to play a 3-5-2 just because we have a couple of attacking full-backs on our books"

No it's because we haven't got a decent player to play wide right and pratically all our midfield (and some forwards) have have been tried with limited success. Therefore to my mind 3-5-2 makes the most of the players available. Oh and I don't play Football league manager, I've got a life to lead
Andy Crooks
31   Posted 19/08/2010 at 17:49:16

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Chris, Coleman does have pace at least compared to the rest of the squad.. Dave Wilson, I have seen Seamus many times and believe me he could be the answer. Also, I share your reservations about Jags and believe that Duffy will solve that problem for ten years.
As an an Irish man it would give me immense pleasure to see both play in the blue shirt but I can honestly say this is not blinkered judgement. I have been evangelical about both for some time and think David Moyes must give youth a chance.We have the answer under our nose. Believe.
Mike Allison
32   Posted 19/08/2010 at 18:14:03

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Posts 9 & 10 sum this up. A good attacking full back doesn't make a good winger, the situation is different, and I personally have explained why at least three times earlier in the summer, let alone everyone else who's done the same.

Gareth Bale was never a full back. Ever. He may have played there for Southampton in lower divisions (how did they do?) he may even have played there for Wales (and lost, presumably) and he played 20-odd games for Tottenham there WITHOUT EVER WINNING, but he was always out of position, and people wanted him to be a great attacking full back, when he's more like a decent wide midfielder.
Andy Crooks
33   Posted 19/08/2010 at 18:27:51

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Mike, Seamus Coleman can be our Bale. I'll eat humble pie gladly if I'm wrong. That won't happen; you know why? Because he won't get a chance. It'll be business as usual against Wolves. No imagination, no flair and keep it safe. Phil Neville will start.
Andy Crooks
34   Posted 19/08/2010 at 18:36:16

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I admire Phil Neville, great club captain, as good a professional as I have ever seen, but....... time for the coaching badges and a new role.
Mike Green
35   Posted 19/08/2010 at 18:38:09

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Andy Crooks ? really good point, I'd be more than happy to see Coleman with Pip behind him. RW problem solved, where do we play El Capitano... solved.

Job done. Well done.

And James Flynn ? if Moyes could just "go and get" Donovan, do you not think he'd already be in the fold? Not happening.
Dave Wilson
36   Posted 19/08/2010 at 20:11:31

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You see, that's my problem, Andy; when you ? and others ? say you have seen Seamus many times, I wonder at what level. I admit I`ve only see him play an hour at the top level, but then that's because it's all he`s played ? unfair to judge him in the Europa League so I don't count that

I don't get why so many people are sure he`s the answer. How can they possibly know?

Can there have ever have been a player, anywhere, who has had so much said about him by so many, who have seen so little of him?

I wish to fuck Moyes would play him if only to put us all out of our misery.
Tony J Williams
37   Posted 19/08/2010 at 20:59:43

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Michael, I actually thought the major contributing factor why young Rooney left was that he had just shagged a granny and got caught, got tapped up in the England squad and Moyes accused him of being a thief....wait scrap that last one after the trail that proved Our Wayne was as big a bullshitter as Blue Bill.

So we can't debate with you because you don't feel others rationalisations don't "cut no ice", strange line coming from the editor of a forum that instigates discussion threads.
Michael Kenrick
38   Posted 19/08/2010 at 22:22:53

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There may indeed have been other issues that likely would cloud any lesson here. But my firm belief is that one of the issues a young and no doubt irascible Wayne Rooney had with David Moyes was that he wasn't getting enough games, or that he was being used too much as a sub (54% in his first season; 23% in his second and last season). Given the incredible talent that he was, I think neither the numbers nor the history of this specific issue reflect well on Moyes.
Graham Holliday
39   Posted 20/08/2010 at 09:04:46

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David Hallwood #29 -

Not a single top-flight team uses 3-5-2 as their default formation.

There's a reason for this (actually there's very probably more than one).

Namely, most teams now use variants of a system that has one central striker and very attacking wide men (often essentially wide forwards).

To have 3 centre-backs marking 1 is unnecessary, and to have no full-backs to deal with these wide forward players is dangerous.

I think that is the main reason for the decline of the system.
David Hallwood
40   Posted 20/08/2010 at 11:42:49

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Correction, I meant 4-2-3-1, how it came out as 3-5-2 God only knows

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