"Pienaar neglected to comment on what aspect was stalling the deal, but wages could be the obstacle..."
You don't say?
So negotiations appear then to be coming to a successful conclusion regarding the Bafana boy. I don't dislike this player, but I think his ego is larger than his talent. I wouldn't dwell too much if he left, as at 28 he'll soon be on the slide. Maybe others feel differently.
But set against the backdrop of a stricken L4, it's his comment about "wanting what's right," alongside the cliched, tokenistic and in my opinion, wholly disingenuous & patronising nod to the supporters, that annoyed me. Exactly what has he done to earn top whack?
Not seeking brick-bats ? I think he's a decent player. Just want to know if ToffeeWebbers think he's indispensable, and therefore worth every penny...
Kevin Hudson, Posted 19/08/2010 at 14:59:24
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1 Posted 19/08/2010 at 16:01:10
2 Posted 19/08/2010 at 16:03:26
Arteta gets 5 years to take him to 33, Cahill got 5 year to take him to 35 and Rodwell got 5 years as well. If Everton have offered, say 3 years taking Pienaar to age 31, when it would be harder to negotiate a good deal at Everton or elsewhere, maybe that's the issue?
However, as Michael infers, I too just want the whole bloody thing sorted out one way or the other!
3 Posted 19/08/2010 at 16:10:39
If he wants a 5 year deal to ensure his security and loyalty to Everton, how is that a bad thing?
All he said was "I want what's right." That doesn't make him greedy!
4 Posted 19/08/2010 at 16:15:26
5 Posted 19/08/2010 at 16:16:00
There have been some rumours that we were only ever going to keep one of them(Arteta or Pienaar) as we dont have the funds to pay both the same type of wages on long contracts.
I hope this isn`t true but as each day passes without him signing I do start to think along those lines.
6 Posted 19/08/2010 at 16:20:35
7 Posted 19/08/2010 at 16:13:53
8 Posted 19/08/2010 at 16:27:36
since However his options have seriously dwindled since a poor world cup no show, too much hype and the team just didn't deliver. It now looks like he's had to break his silence or make a complete u-turn in an attempt to open up negotiations again.
If Piennar wants what is right. He should look at getting rid of that gobby agent of his. How could you have faith in someone who deals with your business if they are always making nonsense comments etc...
9 Posted 19/08/2010 at 16:31:36
10 Posted 19/08/2010 at 16:48:39
11 Posted 19/08/2010 at 16:52:13
Pienaar's evaluation of himself appears to be rather deluded. A couple of inconsistent seasons and then half a season of decent football -and he thinks he's the dog's balls.
12 Posted 19/08/2010 at 16:51:50
I believe that this is a fair wage for him, Arteta is worth more.
13 Posted 19/08/2010 at 16:54:35
14 Posted 19/08/2010 at 16:57:55
its been blatantly obvious to me for a long time , especially after the blackburn game that everton will never be able to take their play onto an other level without pace not just on the right wing but on the left wing too.
we are perfectly fine in the centre of midfield with 2 players for each position. youve got fellani holding and rodwell as back up. arteta centre mid with osman as back up. cahill in the hole with billy as back up. why not sell pienar for 15 mil and buy to pacy players like donavan and nzogbia for both wings
that would take our play onto the next level
15 Posted 19/08/2010 at 16:57:10
Whether Pienaar is worth as much as Arteta in his own right I'm not sure but few can argue that attempts to replace him at left mid last season were unsuccessful and affected team play as a whole.
We were at our best attacking down the left with Baines and Pienaar, which before Arteta's return, was our only option in open play.
This seems to have been quickly forgotten in the hysteria of Arteta's return but I for one am keen for us to have as many offensive options as possible lest we return to hoofball.
16 Posted 19/08/2010 at 17:11:49
17 Posted 19/08/2010 at 17:06:33
18 Posted 19/08/2010 at 17:26:59
19 Posted 19/08/2010 at 17:29:29
I can't believe I just read that. The undisputed Player of the Season for 2009/10, valued at around £15m, who creates goals, is constantly in motion, plays one-twos down the left with aplomb, links up brilliantly with his full-back, often tracks back and tackles superbly, pulls off neat back-heels to set up goals for the likes of Cahill and Arteta adds nothing more than Leon Osman? Seriously?!
Is he indispensable? No, no player is, but I wrote a few months back that he's about as indispensable as we have at Everton. People's attitude towards him is souring because of this contract impasse but don't let it cloud what he brings to the team ? we would be considerably worse off without him, as results showed last season while he was out injured.
20 Posted 19/08/2010 at 16:57:30
The way he'll give-it-and-go seems second nature (as oppose to others who give it and.. stand there like a fucking big henge made from stone).
You rarely hear "move yer arse Pienaar yer lazy little twat" and his control is generally good.
But as a person, I get the feeling he's a bit....(how can I put this?)..........thick.
That's absolutely fine of course, no reason why he should be a genius.
The problem comes however when football's 'not very intelligencia' are 'obliged' to work with the greedy and manipulative.
Or agents as they're called.
SURELY this relationship is just....wrong.
I mean it's a like allowing a child who has inherited millions to have Bilko as his financial advisor.
Makes me think there could/should be a new role in football.
A kind of go-between, between the player and the agent (wages paid to the PL from a levy on the greedy-arse agents fee!).
I think the PL should appoint a few of them.
Someone to be at every meeting between player and agent.
I can see it on Sky - "Reg Twatt the Premier League's Player-Agent liason officer said today 'the amount being asked by Mr Pienaar's agent was not realistic given Everton's finances'. He added 'There have been no bids for the player, Everton's offer is more than fair for a player of his age, I have advised the player to accept the deal'"
Any interference by the agent after? -Struck off! (or...whatever happens).
(a bit like that board who decide transfer fees).
Probably, but I can't help thinking that most players are sitting ducks for the Private Walkers' of the football world and 'something' needs to be done.
21 Posted 19/08/2010 at 17:49:25
He won'tshoudn't get what Arteta is getting, but there's nothing wrong with his logic.
22 Posted 19/08/2010 at 17:55:44
I would play for Everton for free like most people on here but I think people forget that footballers are employees at the end of the day.
23 Posted 19/08/2010 at 18:11:50
24 Posted 19/08/2010 at 18:11:07
From a football perspective he adds value to the team.
25 Posted 19/08/2010 at 18:07:08
It was Everton that plucked you from relative obscurity, from a club where you were not happy. Everton that stood by you in your times of well publicised personal problems.
If you had had the kind of World Cup campaign that you and your agent thought you were going to have, fair enough. But you didn't, and it doesn't look like anyone is banging the door down for your services, despite the best efforts of your agent. I have no doubt that what you have been offered by Everton will make you a very rich man.
If you think you deserve to be on par with Mikel or Tim, think again. Sign the contract or move on. If you are not happy, ask for a transfer.
I hope you stay because on your day you can be a great player, but nobody is bigger than the club, and the grass is not always greener elsewhere. Ask Joleon!
26 Posted 19/08/2010 at 18:18:28
Either get him signed up or sell! And before a certaain somebody says there are no offers for him (which yyou admit you don't know), I don't give a fiddler's broken string. Put him up for sale.
And as long as it's more than £6 million - bye bye. We should get enough to bring in Donovan, which as mentioned before is far better to have for 4 years than Pienaar for one.
The whole thing is getting on my wick.
27 Posted 19/08/2010 at 18:29:48
28 Posted 19/08/2010 at 18:21:09
I mean honestly, what good do they do?
29 Posted 19/08/2010 at 18:29:02
The idea that being brought up in poverty means he needs an extra ten thousand pounds every week doesn't wash. A player's background makes no difference to his earning potential.
30 Posted 19/08/2010 at 18:12:56
It's just that agents are only really interested in the best deal for themselves.
Pienaar on £30,000 a week could live the rest of his days in the absolute lap of luxury, as could the next generation of Pienaars.
He (or more likely) his agent are knocking back double that.
Is that (given that there are no bids for him) the 'best'?
Maybe it is, but maybe not.
We could have him for a year and he could walk for nothing and get a huge wage from someone else when he does.
He could also be horribly injured next month and never play again.
Something tells me this is a gamble the agent (as it won't be the end of HIS career) is happy to bet on.
(an exaggeration and unlikely of course but possible)
31 Posted 19/08/2010 at 18:32:03
32 Posted 19/08/2010 at 18:49:09
We get so hung up on the money that the length of the deal, which is just as important, and the timing of when it will end are sidelined.
Seems to me the club and player are playing a game of brag and are pretty confident of the hands they've got, They've put their money on the table and either one will fold or they'll turn over their cards.
Personally I think the club will budge Pienaars way a little more but not as far as he wants and he'll, in the end, take it.
The club and player have done this on all his contract negotations and I've always got the feeling Pienaar was being hard done by, on this occassion my gut feeling is he's holding out for a jackpot which the club just wont sanction.
The club need to make it clear what their final offer is and if he's not going to accept it see if we can get some money for him.
33 Posted 19/08/2010 at 19:16:36
?The undisputed Player of the Season for 2009-10? ? and if Arteta, Jags etc weren?t out for half the season, maybe he wouldn?t have been?
?Valued at around £15m? ? so you don?t agree that the transfer market has over inflated valuations these days??
?Who creates goals? ? so does Osman. So did Coleman but never got another game.
?Is constantly in motion? ? I had to read that twice. We are talking about football aren?t we? Isn?t it, erm, a prerequisite that, as a player, and moreover as a premier league player, you ought to be in constant motion? It?s not a positive that you are, it's a negative if you aren?t.
?Plays one-twos down the left with aplomb? ? I?d value any left sided midfielder who can do this at £15m. One-twos? He wouldn?t get a game if he couldn?t do the basics. I know he can do the basics, because he is a fairly average player and even the average ones can play one-twos.
?Links up brilliantly with his full-back? ? see above.
?Often tracks back and tackles superbly? ? ok, I actually don?t agree with this one. Tracks back yes, as is his job !!!) but tackles superbly, replace with, gives away too many free kicks.
?Pulls off neat back-heels to set up goals for the likes of Cahill and Arteta? ? how many times has he done this in his 3 seasons here?
?Adds nothing more than Leon Osman? ? don?t agree, Osman scores goals. In 3 seasons, Pienaar, as an attacking tricky little midfielder, has scored.... 8 goals for us (PL). He has also been convicted of drink driving, which is a bit of a no-no if you ask me.
I actually like Pienaar, I'm simply agreeing he is not indispensable and that he has done nothing to suggest we should stick him on a similar deal as Arteta.
34 Posted 19/08/2010 at 19:30:37
35 Posted 19/08/2010 at 19:46:25
36 Posted 19/08/2010 at 19:44:58
37 Posted 19/08/2010 at 20:28:22
Yes, he will want a lot of money and security but he is working in the currency of his job as we all do. It is just that his job has become very remote from the financial world most of us exist within.
Sell Yobo or Osman to finance the deal. He is excellent.
38 Posted 19/08/2010 at 20:53:20
2007-08. We were on a great run, but when Pienaar went to the Afcon our results dropped, only to improve on his return.
2008-09. He broke a toe in the pre-season against PSV and only returned in late October. We immediately won 3 games and our season finally got underway.
2009-10 We won 4 games in a row until Pienaar was injured at Pompey in late September. We then only won 2 of 11 games I think before he returned in late November and our season soon turned around.
Therefore, it would seem a sensible conclusion that we do better with him than without him.
I hope he stays, plus I admire how he has fought his way from poverty and a violent father to a class act who supports his whole family. I'll conveniently ignore the drink driving!
39 Posted 19/08/2010 at 21:05:49
40 Posted 19/08/2010 at 21:33:40
41 Posted 19/08/2010 at 21:54:33
42 Posted 19/08/2010 at 21:54:12
If we had someone similar on the right we'd have probably made the CL.
I agree with Lyndon.
Has anyone thought it might be the club dragging things out to see if they get a bid?
In the absense of any sensible offers for the Yak, Yobo or Vaughan we seem to have a budget deficit on our annual "sell to buy" policy fund.
43 Posted 19/08/2010 at 22:13:00
Whether you think he is being greedy or not, he can't be accused of being 'disinterested'. What do you base that on, Andy?
Another point to note is that, if he waits and walks on a free next summer, he won't be getting a 5-year contract at 29.
44 Posted 19/08/2010 at 22:20:44
And I think he was not far off 29.
(Ok, ok it was only five..... feels like 12 though!)
45 Posted 19/08/2010 at 22:33:52
46 Posted 19/08/2010 at 22:37:05
Last 3 Premier seasons:
Total goals 9
Total assists 15
So that's 3 goals and 5 assists per year.
47 Posted 19/08/2010 at 22:42:01
Stevie G la - 36 goals and 27 assists in the same period.
Arteta for 3 seasons (not including the last one which he missed most of of)
16 goals and 26 assists.
My point being, for a creative supposedly attacking midfielder, Pienaar doesn't do enough for me.
48 Posted 19/08/2010 at 22:47:22
The fact that you do not include Cahill, Jagielka or Rodwell amongst our top 5 players blows your arguments to smithereens.
49 Posted 20/08/2010 at 00:24:12
50 Posted 20/08/2010 at 01:09:23
51 Posted 20/08/2010 at 01:08:34
So he wants a big contract? Doesn't mean he's greedy... I want a big contract too.
People get far too emotional about this.
52 Posted 20/08/2010 at 02:20:01
53 Posted 20/08/2010 at 02:31:55
54 Posted 20/08/2010 at 08:07:32
However ? pure speculation ? if the club have offered a 3 year £60k per week deal, that's £9M which sounds fair enough to me.
55 Posted 20/08/2010 at 07:56:35
He did look like our best midfielder out there last week though. And no, Osman is shit.
56 Posted 20/08/2010 at 09:02:18
Sky Sports News has it that Harry is set to offer £6million to take him to White Hart Lane.
The plot thickens..
57 Posted 20/08/2010 at 09:09:29
58 Posted 20/08/2010 at 09:42:35
59 Posted 20/08/2010 at 10:17:32
What do you think he is worth? For arguments sake if we have offered him £60,000 a week and he wants more, do you think he is worth it?
60 Posted 20/08/2010 at 10:25:21
61 Posted 20/08/2010 at 10:45:08
However, this is all just speculation as we have no idea what has been offered / asked for by either party and most likely we will never know.
62 Posted 20/08/2010 at 10:45:33
"People having a go at Steven for not signing seem to have conveniently forgot that Arteta`s contract wasn`t sorted out quickly either."
That's not true. Mikel signed two years ahead of his then present deal ending. Protracted? it took months. The Pienaar saga has been going on for over a year. There is a lot of speculation about the length and size of contract, but none of us know, do we?
Greedy? Yes, but can you blame someone? If you know you can get £3 million a year for the next five years, and then just peanuts like the rest of us (well most) for the rest of your life, then you'd do the same, surely?
I can't be bothered with such chatter anymore; just Everton. Either get an affordable deal done (which can't be much more than £60k/wk), or sell for a price that at least gets us Donovan. Then the sale of Yak (looks like it'll happen) can get us a replacement on the left hand side. Just cross fingers, we are ok with strikers.
We need to move on asap. If he stays without a new contract, it will be his last year. That is definite ? anything else would be irrational, illogical.
63 Posted 20/08/2010 at 14:06:30
Possibly not in terms of him being paid more than £60k. But I doubt very much that's the offer from Everton that he is turning down. I've got a feeling its around £40-45k for 3 years. The Yak is more than that and we are trying to get rid of him...
When Arteta has just been signed on a reported £70k on a 5-year deal, that does seem a little bit like the club are undervaluing him (if that is the case, of course... but we will never know as silence is golden as always from Everton). Let's just hope it is sorted sooner rather than later. It should have been sorted last day of last season!!
64 Posted 20/08/2010 at 14:04:05
65 Posted 20/08/2010 at 14:12:46
He is undoubtedly one of the most important players at the club and his contract needs to be sorted quicktime.
Name me one good reason why Pienaar should not try and get the best deal for himself? And one that he considers is 'fair' based on market forces.
Why does trying to get the best deal for himself make him a 'greedy little fucker' and 'a bit thick'.
66 Posted 20/08/2010 at 15:34:13
"I've got a feeling its around £40-45k for 3 years."
Why do you think the contract being offered is as above? Have you seen these figures reported anywhere? I presume you have to be able to say the length of the contract as well. The only figure I have seen reported is £60k in the Echo a few weeks ago? If you are right then after his performance last season I would say he is worth more than £40k in the current market.
67 Posted 20/08/2010 at 19:01:46
68 Posted 20/08/2010 at 19:40:50
I thought he was our best player at the Everton Chile game. Very lively - didn't look like a man that wanted away.
Last week everyone was fairly lethargic. Our £75k/wk man being more lethargic than most.
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