Skip to Main Content
Members:   Log In  |  Sign Up
The Mail Bag

Crouch for Pienaar - The long and short of it.

Comments (56)

In light of the recent reports about a possible swap for Pienaar and Crouch, if true, I've been thinking about how positive a move this would be.

There are several key factors, the main one being if we don't offload him in this window, we won't be getting any money for him. If we sell him now we aren't likely to get enough money to find a decent replacement and we haven't any money to supplement a transfer fee. For this reason, I believe this has to be seen as a good option if Crouch is surplus to requirements at WHL.

Crouch may not be everyone's cup of tea but he is effective and more often than not does the business. People may be worried about the return of hoofball but Crouch has more quality than just being a target man and is very good at linking up with the wide men feeding the ball into decent channels.

The major concern is how will it affect the balance of the side which is already questionable. We have several options on the left, Bily, Gueye and Osman (ducking my head for the abuse at such a suggestion already but hear me out).

Pienaar is not an out-and-out wide player and I personally think that the reason our left side is as strong as it is, is mainly due to Baines's overlapping of Pienaar.

If we managed to get Crouch, I think Moyes will be looking at offloading two strikers. Yakubu being one to West Ham but what about Stoke?? They are still in the market for a striker and are being frustrated elsewhere and clearly they have money to spend. So we may after all get circa £7-8m for the Yak. Vaughan may also see his days at Everton numbered and I feel we could realistically get £1m for him.

Would £8-£9m be enough to land Donovan? I think it would be and hey presto the signing of Crouch facilitates the signing of Donovan.

Landon Donovan changed our side last season when he was here, not always because of his performances but the genuine balance that he gave the side, and it is clear to see that when he left our performances dropped somewhat and our challenge for Europe faltered.

So, if we can sort these dealings out the right hand side is sorted so let's look at the left again. Whilst I haven't seen enough of Gueye yet, from what I have seen, I think there is definitely potential there. Bily would be a decent enough replacement for Pienaar, allowing Baines to overlap as effectively leaving Bily to play a bit narrower, which is also a job that Osman can do.

Maybe Crouch holds the key?
James Cadwaladr, Chester     Posted 24/08/2010 at 10:35:44

back Return to the Mail Bag


Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer

Ryan Rosenberg
1   Posted 24/08/2010 at 15:01:50

Report abuse

You may have heard of the latest rumours surrounding Pienaar & Crouch. Apparently, Moyes is interested in a swap deal. I don't know about you but if he (Pienaar) is not going to sign the current offer, get him out. I would prefer Crouch & possibly Bentley. I believe Moyes can change him.

But can Crouch do the job? He can score but I don't rate him as a 20 goal a season striker. I say we go for Santa Cruz. Lazio has made a £5 mil offer, that to me is a bargain. Get rid of Yak and Yobo for whatever price. One more thing, what's up with Izmailov?

Mike Southworth
2   Posted 24/08/2010 at 15:02:27

Report abuse

Article in the Daily Mirror claims that we are in advance (sic) talks with Spurs about a swap deal of Pienaar for Crouch.

I think it might be worth a punt, as much as Ilike Pienaar, he hasn't signed the contract and will be on his way in the summer unless he does.

Brendan O'Doherty
3   Posted 24/08/2010 at 15:04:17

Report abuse

If we're going to do a swap deal with Spurs, it should be Pienaar for Bentley.
Keith Slinger
4   Posted 24/08/2010 at 15:05:20

Report abuse

Can you see Crouch playing as a lone striker????
Nick Wall
5   Posted 24/08/2010 at 15:06:30

Report abuse

Why are fans so keen to sell off our best players ?

Article now up on the OS refuting the latest rumours about Pienaar and Yakubu leaving - .

We're not letting anyone go. And quite right too.
Dave Lynch
6   Posted 24/08/2010 at 15:05:05

Report abuse

Sod Crouch.
If Harry the bung (allegedly) wants him that badly then do a straight swap with Kranjar (spelling).
Brendan McLaughlin
7   Posted 24/08/2010 at 15:06:55

Report abuse

Round has come out on the official site & said its a load of bollocks.
Anthony Hughes
8   Posted 24/08/2010 at 15:05:22

Report abuse

If we were to bring Crouch in then we need to keep Pienaar(or similar if he goes) and get somebody to play wide right so we can have options either side to supply him from the flanks,no point him having him if there's no supply line.Osman on the left?he's gets ripped to pieces by fans when he plays on the right so that's a non starter,Bily?jury's still out on him big time as a wide option and we've not since enough of Gueye to know one way or the other.I think Crouch is a gobshite but i could put that behind me if he came in and got 15-20 goals however i dont think he's ever got that many in a season in the past,i stand to be corrected though.
Anthony Hughes
9   Posted 24/08/2010 at 15:14:12

Report abuse

Agree with Brendan and Dave ,i'd take Bentley or Krancjar.
Dave Lynch
10   Posted 24/08/2010 at 15:27:26

Report abuse

Bentley got no pace Anthony.
Also a big time charlie. Krancjar on the other hand is IMO an Everton type of player and vastly underated.
Robert Moore
11   Posted 24/08/2010 at 15:32:08

Report abuse

If this rumour is true, I would swap 100% no questions asked. Crouch would be perfect for us Blues. I hope it's true; we need some good news. COYB
Tom Bowers
12   Posted 24/08/2010 at 15:37:05

Report abuse

Crouch is not an answer to Everton"s woes.Scoring from midfield is and unless we have free kicks galore which gives Arteta a chance the others have not been producing. A fit Fellaini might improve our results.But Biley,Osman and Pienaar have disappointed in the scoring stakes.Johnny H.has a great shot as does Rodders but one plays mainly defensive whilst the other is not yet recognised as a starter by Moyes.
I agree about Krancjar as a target for exchange.
Paul Olsen
13   Posted 24/08/2010 at 15:46:42

Report abuse

Bentley, no go.

Santa Cruz? If you find the Yak annoying you will surely hate Santa Cruz. Lazy and more injury prone than David Hirst ever was.

Krancjar sure, but does he have this pace everyone is asking for?
Crouch, i quite like him actually and think he would fit very nicely into our squad. However i suspect many of these targets would hit our wage budget hard.
Anand Rabheru
14   Posted 24/08/2010 at 15:50:11

Report abuse

Post Number 5, Nick, perfectly said!!! I dont know why people keep saying lets get rid of Pienaar! He is as you say one of our better players, if we get 6-7 m for him, we aint gonna buy better (and HELL NO to Bentley!!!)

If you read Round's quote on the OS, he is saying how important Pienaar is to us...if thats the case, why is he not getting a good enough contract (I dont know what hes being offered, so am sure its good but not good enough!).

I for one say we keep him, if he goes on a free, so be it, hes served us well and he is perfectly entitled to see out his contract. As long as he shows the committment and passion he has done over the last few yrs, I will accept it and then good luck to him, but deffo DO NOT sell now!!!

He has said he wants to stay so its up to the club to try and keep him (if hes as important as they say he is!)
Roberto Birquet
15   Posted 24/08/2010 at 15:11:05

Report abuse

If we sell him now we aren't likely to get enough money to find a decent replacement and we haven't any money to supplement a transfer fee.
That is mere speculation, and I do not agree with it. Remember wer got him for £2 million via a loan, ditto Arteta.

I would not expect us to do the same again. But to say we would not get enough for a replacement is stretching credulity.

Yes, use money to fund Donovan. He is the same age. We would be able to get him for the price of Pienaar. He wants to play for us. Her has played for us and proved a winner. Where is the catch?
David Barks
16   Posted 24/08/2010 at 15:56:39

Report abuse

He's not going anywhere, 99.999999% of transfer stories in the press are garbage, and it would be stupid to get rid of one of our best players and only capable players on the outside. He's not the fastest but IS one of the quickest on our team. And there is no reason why a contract can not still be worked out over the coming months. He always works hard, never quits, is a confident player, and seems to get along with most of the team. Why in the hell would anyone want to get rid of that?
James Cadwaladr
17   Posted 24/08/2010 at 15:58:25

Report abuse

Roberto, the catch is that no one has offered money for Pienaar. There are no bids in the table so we cant use that money to buy Donovan.

Re: the specualtion as you call it. Selling him now 6 months prior to him being allowed to sign on a free means we will not get much money for him and it is fact that the club has no money to supplement transfers.
Roberto Birquet
18   Posted 24/08/2010 at 15:58:04

Report abuse

If you read Round's quote on the OS, he is saying how important Pienaar is to us...if thats the case, why is he not getting a good enough contract (I dont know what hes being offered, so am sure its good but not good enough!).
I agree. But it would still be bloody stupid to keep for just one year.

I do not want to lose Pienaar. But I am awake to the threat Everton faces.

That is: We are going to lose him, and we have no choice.

Either we lose him next year, and for nowt. Or this year for the addition of Donovan. Do we want One year of Pienaar? Or four of Donovan? That is the question. Not this ostrich head in sand, we can keep Pienaar.
Roberto Birquet
19   Posted 24/08/2010 at 16:06:08

Report abuse

Roberto, the catch is that no one has offered money for Pienaar.
1. You do not know that. Although admittedly, Moyes has recently said that. So let's say it's true.

But 2. Were he for sale, there would be bids. Why? For the reasons all the posters give above. He's a bloody good player, and football clubs want bloody good players. Not rocket science. We would get bids - no doubt.

Why people think that in football, no news of a bid means no-one wants a player is beyond me. I am sure fans in Russia last year were saying the same of Bily.

None of us know of whispers among clubs and players and agents at this time of year. But we get to know on September 1st; same every year
Roberto Birquet
20   Posted 24/08/2010 at 16:11:29

Report abuse

Re: the specualtion as you call it. Selling him now 6 months prior to him being allowed to sign on a free means we will not get much money for him and it is fact that the club has no money to supplement transfers.
You are arguing in the wrong direction when you mention our finances - logic back-to-front.

He has one season left on his contract. We would get less for him than if hed two seasons left. Forget nonsense of six months (five actually) that he can start talking to others -(and only abroad), he has one season left on his contract. That probably cuts any fee by a third. True.

I would expect us to get £9-10 million instead of £13-14 million.

Your point about finances should be used in the other direction. We cannot afford to allow a player that is so central to our play - and who is so bankable - to leave for nothing. Why>? For the reason you have given. We are in the poor house.
Micky Norman
21   Posted 24/08/2010 at 16:12:49

Report abuse

Tom( 11) - is that Alan Biley? He was very underrated!
Micky Norman
22   Posted 24/08/2010 at 16:21:31

Report abuse

Sorry Tom (12)- I can't count!
John McLoughlin
23   Posted 24/08/2010 at 16:41:50

Report abuse

We have no width, rarely put a decent cross in apart from the odd set play, so why do we want Crouch, We are already one of the slowest teams around and people want rid of the 1 wide player we have. Crouch would just encourage more hoofball that we are all against.
Roberto Birquet
24   Posted 24/08/2010 at 16:59:12

Report abuse

"We are one of the slowest teams around ... people want rid of the 1 wide player we have."
Again, most on here do not want rid of Pienaar; but we are going to lose him for money or for nothing.

If we used the money to get Donova. That would be getting a WIDE player who is FASTER than Pienaar. - your two concerns answered.

We have three choices.

One: Pinaar accepts our offer.
Two; we up our offer; three; we put him up for sale.

There seems to be a 4th that you and others find palatable, but I do not. Let him run down his contract. Why do we think we are rich enough to allow that?

Or is the era of noughties excess: credit card tarts, buying houses at Alice in Wonderland prices; equity withdrawal, still with us? Quick reminder, the whole house of cards has collapsed; financial meltdown is to be paid for with closing down schools - a disgrace, but a different topic.

Those who say carry on with Pienaar even without a new deal have to justify what is collossal payment: that is his current £2 million wages, and the money we could still get for him. All in all that is about £10 million-plus. Is Pienaar worth that for one year?

Is that gamble on one player what people expect will get us CL? I'm bemused.
Gerry Quinn
25   Posted 24/08/2010 at 17:09:20

Report abuse

Round: "There is no truth in the speculation. Steven has been a terrific player for us and is a terrific asset."
Ugly Arry: "There is no troof in the speculation. Steven is a t'rifik player for them but could be a t'rifik asset."
Mike Southworth
26   Posted 24/08/2010 at 17:20:27

Report abuse

I think it might be worth a punt, as much as Ilike Pienaar, he hasn't signed the contract and will be on his way in the summer unless he does.
Anthony Hughes
27   Posted 24/08/2010 at 17:22:26

Report abuse

It doesn't make any sense to me. Besides Crouch being a gobshite, what's the point of bringing in a big target man and sending out one of our wide players? We'd have no-one on the right or the left flanks to supply crosses and the temptation would be route one. Hope this is all a load of crap from the Mirror.
Ray Said
28   Posted 24/08/2010 at 17:30:32

Report abuse

Problems with Crouch;
1.He is rubbish
2, he cant head the ball
3. he is slow
4. his presence would only encourage even more hoofball from defenders
5. he doesn't score much (on the field anyway)
6. he is rubbish
Nick Entwistle
29   Posted 24/08/2010 at 17:41:07

Report abuse

Moyes generally buys players who want to come here and see it as a chance to further their career... Crouch on a swap doesn't fit these criteria so I thought we were done with journeymen once Ginola left.
Still, Crouch would start every time for England with me... not that I give a dam about England.
Roberto Birquet
30   Posted 24/08/2010 at 17:55:27

Report abuse

I agree on Crouch. Don't see it as likely, barely agreeable.
Karl Masters
31   Posted 24/08/2010 at 18:08:23

Report abuse


Some of you people need medical help!
Chris Jones
32   Posted 24/08/2010 at 18:09:57

Report abuse

Santa Cruz and Donovan would be superb signings and would bring balance to the squad. It would probably cost around £13m for the two of them. Personally I think we can afford to offload Yak, Yobo and Vaughan to at least get £10m in. Can't see him letting Yobo go though.

Fuck me I make it sound so easy - I should stay away from Champ Manager!
Ray Said
33   Posted 24/08/2010 at 18:45:52

Report abuse

Yakubu is the last man to score 20 goals for us and now we can afford to let him go? The lad has not had a fair chance since his injury-he needs a run of games and he will start putting the goals in again. He is the most dangerous striker we have had since Lineker-oh yeah we let him go early too
Nick Wall
34   Posted 24/08/2010 at 18:50:02

Report abuse

Much as I'd like us to sign Donovan, even if we had the money - which we don't - we wouldn't be bidding for him as Moyes doesn't think it's worth paying that kind of money for someone his age. If we see him back this season it will be on another loan deal.
David Hallwood
35   Posted 24/08/2010 at 20:29:38

Report abuse

If the deal did go through (unlikely because this is yet another tabloid filler- why don't they just concentrate on who's Abi Titmuss shaggin or that Posh has put 3lb on, and has started the spew- up diet to lose it? ) my season ticket would be on Ebay
Logan Shave
36   Posted 24/08/2010 at 20:41:03

Report abuse

Ray (28) - completely agree, although you missed a point:

7. He is rubbish
Mike Green
37   Posted 24/08/2010 at 20:53:05

Report abuse

Bloody hell - midweek boredom's set in early this week hasn't it?

What a load of absolute bollocks.
Iain Love
38   Posted 24/08/2010 at 20:53:54

Report abuse

Like we have choices here !!!
Pienaar yes we would like to keep him but not on silly wages that would encourage the rest of the team to ask for "more please".
He's decent , but his end product is piss poor, check the stats goals , assists etc etc .
Crouch no probs with the lad , dont think he's right for us though much rather have Kranjar as others have said . Bentley on form is a cracking player, but again not for us, that Bale lad is ok i'd take him or even the young lad O'Hara.
Roberto Birquet
39   Posted 24/08/2010 at 21:32:56

Report abuse

Nick Wall
Much as I'd like us to sign Donovan, even if we had the money - which we don't - we wouldn't be bidding for him as Moyes doesn't think it's worth paying that kind of money for someone his age.
Moyes did say that but I don't believe Moyes on that. But it is a good haggling tactic, and I applaud him for it.

We are asked to believe that Donovan is too old to spend money on, but we'll allow Pienaar (same age) to run down his contract. Come on! Arteta is the same age, too. Give him a £20 million contract.

Donovan would be a haggled price around £8-10 million. That is too much, and foregoing the same amount to have Pienaar for just one year is supposed to make sense. It does not.

Why I see Donovan as the answer.
We know he wants to play for us; Wouldn't cost (I don't think) more than Pienaar; would need no bedding in time as he has already played well for us - but maybe a few weeks rest, and that is a negative point; even costs could be mitigated with the fabled marketing opportunities, the lack of which are so often lamented on this site.

As I have said before, I repeat. If the OS splashes a banner that Pienaar has signed a new deal with us, I'll be the first to welcome it. I have seen no evidence that he will. And if not, let clubs know we are listening to offers (even if out of the media earshot).
Brian Foley
40   Posted 24/08/2010 at 21:39:35

Report abuse

Ray Said, NO's 28 & 33 How on earth can you say Crouch is rubbish and can't head a ball. He certainly headed a few goals for England to help keep up a very decent goals average per game. He plies his trade quite comfortably in the premiership, and provided he WANTS to come I think he would be a good addition in what should be his final big move. I'm not saying he's the answer but neither is Pienaar's stance against signing for a club that's helped put him on the football map, shades of Lescott here.

Yakubu set his own standard with a top scoring season. Unfortunately the unscripted world of football allows for nice surprises and bitter disappointments. Yakubu has given us the former and only the latter now awaits, surely. I say take as much money asap - preferably off WHU - as they will never be a threat. I'd much prefer to keep Pienaar and add Crouch. If not, I would sell Pienaar, Yakubu and Vaughan. Ultimately sign Crouch and Donovan.

Tommy Meehan
41   Posted 24/08/2010 at 22:49:26

Report abuse

Crouch? How many more 6 goal a season strikers do we need?
Alan Kirwin
42   Posted 24/08/2010 at 22:49:33

Report abuse

Ray Said (28) - Your analysis of Crouch is rubbish, and risible. The guy scores goals and makes goals, he has a far better touch than some (i.e. those that don't bother to look) believe. he is a good player.

That said, the thread is pointless. Redknapp says he is going nowhere and will not sell him at any price (because he's a good player). I believe the story is also refuted from Goodison.

End of.
Drew Glenister
43   Posted 24/08/2010 at 22:59:59

Report abuse

Take the emotion out of it for a minute and realise we are talking business here.

We have an asset worth £10m which will be worth nothing in 9 months (possibly less) time. A swap makes perfect sense on paper regardless of whether Crouch (or anyone else) ever even steps out at Goodison because as a £10m asset he will come with a shelf life (contract) of 3 or 5yrs.

Commercial pressures will force Everton to take action if such an offer presented itself.

I want Pienaar to stay for what it's worth and happen to.rate Crouch highly too, although all his managers reluctantly end up admitting he forces their teams to play a certain way - I call it Big Dunc Syndrome - and is therefore only used from the bench (and so doesn't get 20 goals a season to answer an earlier point).

If we are forced to swap Pienaar with spurs, and while we're all indulging our fantasies, I'd go for Pavlyuchenko who would suit our 'one up top' game perfectly and I recall Moyes was interested in him when Spurs signed him.

Anyway ignore anything you see in the press, especially if it's more than a couple of days old; all of our last 5 signings have come from absolutely nowhere.. Think Bily, Heitinga, Fellaini etc

Eric Myles
44   Posted 25/08/2010 at 02:49:02

Report abuse

Another option for the Club would be to give Pienaar the improved contract he wants, sign a contract with him for 3 or 4 years and then put him on the transfer market.
That way we get more for him as he's tied down longer and only have to pay his increased wages until the January window (or until next week if they act quickly enough). And in January Donovan is available again.
A risky gambit by the Club mind as still nobody might want to buy him.
Garry Martin
45   Posted 25/08/2010 at 06:16:48

Report abuse

Crouch is to old & wants to be down sourrrrrrth not up north !!
Gavin Ramejkis
46   Posted 25/08/2010 at 07:53:19

Report abuse

James, put down whatever it is you are smoking, Crouch is utter shite, putting that kind of donkey on the pitch would be tantamount to signing the midfield's death warrant with hoofball being our new style with endless punts down the pitch to that donkey. No thanks.
Ciarán McGlone
47   Posted 25/08/2010 at 09:08:41

Report abuse

Can people please let go of this Donovan thing... he's simply not for sale.

If we swap Pienaar for Crouch then we'll have no wide players and a target man... cue hoofball ? ad nauseum. Playing Bily in a position that he's clearly not comfortable in, or suited to, is not an option.

Absolutely stupid idea in my opinion.
Danny Burke
48   Posted 25/08/2010 at 10:02:21

Report abuse

No, No, No and No.

We do not want Crouch. He may not have played every game at Spurs last year but his scoring record was poor, something like 6 league goals (not sure of exact stats). He would encourage too much hoofball and, considering his height, he's not that good in the air; he might win headers with his height but he doesn't do much with them. Also he's a fool because his Mrs is really quite hot!

Why do people get the idea Donovan can "replace" Pienaar? Donovan plays up front, but played for us out on the right. Pienaar, while he switches sides occasionally, plays on the left where with Baines, they are quite a threat. Therefore it is not a replacement!
Kunal Desai
49   Posted 25/08/2010 at 10:36:36

Report abuse

I don't forsee any further transfer activity between now and the close of the window for us. It's the usual 'we go with what we have got'.
Norman Merrill
50   Posted 25/08/2010 at 11:44:30

Report abuse

The service we give our strikers, Crouch would get that weight off in no time.
Kev Lacey
51   Posted 25/08/2010 at 12:47:33

Report abuse

I said pre-season I'd swap him for Keane and Bentley, I'd consider Crouch if I get Abbey Clancy as well!
Les Green
52   Posted 25/08/2010 at 12:34:17

Report abuse

I see from today's press that it's not gonna happen anyway, but my view is that Crouch is Duncan Ferguson-Lite. He has no presence and no character. And he does that robot dance when he scores.

The best thing he's ever done was was during that interview when the interviewer asked 'What would you be if you weren't a footballer?' and Crouch said 'A virgin'.

Dave Lynch
53   Posted 25/08/2010 at 14:22:45

Report abuse

Bob Bradley is interested in the Villa job. Randy Lerner wants him being a fellow yank. It's not rocket science to know where Landon will end up playing in the prem. My money is not on us.
Roberto Birquet
54   Posted 25/08/2010 at 14:53:21

Report abuse

Bob Bradley is interested in the Villa job. Randy Lerner wants him being a fellow yank. It's not rocket science to know where Landon will end up playing in the prem. My money is not on us. ------
I've been think ing that too Dave.

Previous poster saying Donovan would not replace Pienaar.

Donovan has actually played in the States on the left as well as the right, and as a striker. Pienaar usually played on the right before he came to us. But as we had the wing magician Osman (???) as well as Arteta often on the right, we put Baines out left.

I'm glad to see more support what I say on the OS message board. Next week, we could have lost a finiancial asset that could have got us Donovan or another winger; and all to have Pienaar who will leave within a year, and possibly be less than motivated about getting us up the table.

What will he care if we get into Europe? It's the height of hope to expect he'll change his mind next year, when he could go to a big club, which would not have to pay a fee. There will be no end of offers. Thinking otherwise is blinkered.
Steve Edwards
55   Posted 25/08/2010 at 15:19:26

Report abuse

Broadly speaking I'm with you Roberto. Its interesting to note that a similar situation has arrisen at Newcastle with Steven Taylor. They offered him a contract. He wanted more and wouldn't sign. Newcastle did not want to break their wage structure, although they rated Taylor very highly. Answer, they put him on the transfer list. I will be gutted if we lose Pienaar but Newcastle have done the sensible thing and we should do the same.

I'm afraid it is just plain foolish to cut your nose off to spite your face because make no mistake that is what Everton are doing here. Will his heart still be with the club with his contract running down fast? The chances are it won't, specially if he agrees to sign for another club in January. The only thing he'll be interested in then is not getting injured. So from January we will have a lame duck going through the motions, running his contract down. I think you need to get real David Moyes, there's only one winner here and it won't be you.
Anthony Hughes
56   Posted 25/08/2010 at 15:47:53

Report abuse

Let's see if Spurs get through tonight. Financially with qualification and the monies they receive they will be in a position to come and bid seriously for Pienaar. They will also need to add numbers to their squad for the Champions League group stages so don't be too suprised if they come in with an offer before next week...

Add Your Comments

In order to post a comment to the MailBag, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.

Log in now

Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and MailBag submissions across the site.

© ToffeeWeb

Latest News

Subscribe to The Athletic, Get 40% off

Online Football Betting with Betway

Bet on Everton and get a deposit bonus with bet365 at

Recent Articles

Talking Points & General Forum

Pinned Links


We use cookies to enhance your experience on ToffeeWeb and to enable certain features. By using the website you are consenting to our use of cookies in accordance with our cookie policy.