In light of the recent reports about a possible swap for Pienaar and Crouch, if true, I've been thinking about how positive a move this would be.
There are several key factors, the main one being if we don't offload him in this window, we won't be getting any money for him. If we sell him now we aren't likely to get enough money to find a decent replacement and we haven't any money to supplement a transfer fee. For this reason, I believe this has to be seen as a good option if Crouch is surplus to requirements at WHL.
Crouch may not be everyone's cup of tea but he is effective and more often than not does the business. People may be worried about the return of hoofball but Crouch has more quality than just being a target man and is very good at linking up with the wide men feeding the ball into decent channels.
The major concern is how will it affect the balance of the side which is already questionable. We have several options on the left, Bily, Gueye and Osman (ducking my head for the abuse at such a suggestion already but hear me out).
Pienaar is not an out-and-out wide player and I personally think that the reason our left side is as strong as it is, is mainly due to Baines's overlapping of Pienaar.
If we managed to get Crouch, I think Moyes will be looking at offloading two strikers. Yakubu being one to West Ham but what about Stoke?? They are still in the market for a striker and are being frustrated elsewhere and clearly they have money to spend. So we may after all get circa £7-8m for the Yak. Vaughan may also see his days at Everton numbered and I feel we could realistically get £1m for him.
Would £8-£9m be enough to land Donovan? I think it would be and hey presto the signing of Crouch facilitates the signing of Donovan.
Landon Donovan changed our side last season when he was here, not always because of his performances but the genuine balance that he gave the side, and it is clear to see that when he left our performances dropped somewhat and our challenge for Europe faltered.
So, if we can sort these dealings out the right hand side is sorted so let's look at the left again. Whilst I haven't seen enough of Gueye yet, from what I have seen, I think there is definitely potential there. Bily would be a decent enough replacement for Pienaar, allowing Baines to overlap as effectively leaving Bily to play a bit narrower, which is also a job that Osman can do.
Maybe Crouch holds the key?
James Cadwaladr, Posted 24/08/2010 at 10:35:44
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1 Posted 24/08/2010 at 15:01:50
But can Crouch do the job? He can score but I don't rate him as a 20 goal a season striker. I say we go for Santa Cruz. Lazio has made a £5 mil offer, that to me is a bargain. Get rid of Yak and Yobo for whatever price. One more thing, what's up with Izmailov?
2 Posted 24/08/2010 at 15:02:27
I think it might be worth a punt, as much as Ilike Pienaar, he hasn't signed the contract and will be on his way in the summer unless he does.
3 Posted 24/08/2010 at 15:04:17
4 Posted 24/08/2010 at 15:05:20
5 Posted 24/08/2010 at 15:06:30
Article now up on the OS refuting the latest rumours about Pienaar and Yakubu leaving - http://www.evertonfc.com/news/archive/2010/08/24/blues-dismiss-crouch-claim .
We're not letting anyone go. And quite right too.
6 Posted 24/08/2010 at 15:05:05
If Harry the bung (allegedly) wants him that badly then do a straight swap with Kranjar (spelling).
7 Posted 24/08/2010 at 15:06:55
8 Posted 24/08/2010 at 15:05:22
9 Posted 24/08/2010 at 15:14:12
10 Posted 24/08/2010 at 15:27:26
Also a big time charlie. Krancjar on the other hand is IMO an Everton type of player and vastly underated.
11 Posted 24/08/2010 at 15:32:08
12 Posted 24/08/2010 at 15:37:05
I agree about Krancjar as a target for exchange.
13 Posted 24/08/2010 at 15:46:42
Santa Cruz? If you find the Yak annoying you will surely hate Santa Cruz. Lazy and more injury prone than David Hirst ever was.
Krancjar sure, but does he have this pace everyone is asking for?
Crouch, i quite like him actually and think he would fit very nicely into our squad. However i suspect many of these targets would hit our wage budget hard.
14 Posted 24/08/2010 at 15:50:11
If you read Round's quote on the OS, he is saying how important Pienaar is to us...if thats the case, why is he not getting a good enough contract (I dont know what hes being offered, so am sure its good but not good enough!).
I for one say we keep him, if he goes on a free, so be it, hes served us well and he is perfectly entitled to see out his contract. As long as he shows the committment and passion he has done over the last few yrs, I will accept it and then good luck to him, but deffo DO NOT sell now!!!
He has said he wants to stay so its up to the club to try and keep him (if hes as important as they say he is!)
15 Posted 24/08/2010 at 15:11:05
That is mere speculation, and I do not agree with it. Remember wer got him for £2 million via a loan, ditto Arteta.
I would not expect us to do the same again. But to say we would not get enough for a replacement is stretching credulity.
Yes, use money to fund Donovan. He is the same age. We would be able to get him for the price of Pienaar. He wants to play for us. Her has played for us and proved a winner. Where is the catch?
16 Posted 24/08/2010 at 15:56:39
17 Posted 24/08/2010 at 15:58:25
Re: the specualtion as you call it. Selling him now 6 months prior to him being allowed to sign on a free means we will not get much money for him and it is fact that the club has no money to supplement transfers.
18 Posted 24/08/2010 at 15:58:04
I agree. But it would still be bloody stupid to keep for just one year.
I do not want to lose Pienaar. But I am awake to the threat Everton faces.
That is: We are going to lose him, and we have no choice.
Either we lose him next year, and for nowt. Or this year for the addition of Donovan. Do we want One year of Pienaar? Or four of Donovan? That is the question. Not this ostrich head in sand, we can keep Pienaar.
19 Posted 24/08/2010 at 16:06:08
1. You do not know that. Although admittedly, Moyes has recently said that. So let's say it's true.
But 2. Were he for sale, there would be bids. Why? For the reasons all the posters give above. He's a bloody good player, and football clubs want bloody good players. Not rocket science. We would get bids - no doubt.
Why people think that in football, no news of a bid means no-one wants a player is beyond me. I am sure fans in Russia last year were saying the same of Bily.
None of us know of whispers among clubs and players and agents at this time of year. But we get to know on September 1st; same every year
20 Posted 24/08/2010 at 16:11:29
You are arguing in the wrong direction when you mention our finances - logic back-to-front.
He has one season left on his contract. We would get less for him than if hed two seasons left. Forget nonsense of six months (five actually) that he can start talking to others -(and only abroad), he has one season left on his contract. That probably cuts any fee by a third. True.
I would expect us to get £9-10 million instead of £13-14 million.
Your point about finances should be used in the other direction. We cannot afford to allow a player that is so central to our play - and who is so bankable - to leave for nothing. Why>? For the reason you have given. We are in the poor house.
21 Posted 24/08/2010 at 16:12:49
22 Posted 24/08/2010 at 16:21:31
23 Posted 24/08/2010 at 16:41:50
24 Posted 24/08/2010 at 16:59:12
Again, most on here do not want rid of Pienaar; but we are going to lose him for money or for nothing.
If we used the money to get Donova. That would be getting a WIDE player who is FASTER than Pienaar. - your two concerns answered.
We have three choices.
One: Pinaar accepts our offer.
Two; we up our offer; three; we put him up for sale.
There seems to be a 4th that you and others find palatable, but I do not. Let him run down his contract. Why do we think we are rich enough to allow that?
Or is the era of noughties excess: credit card tarts, buying houses at Alice in Wonderland prices; equity withdrawal, still with us? Quick reminder, the whole house of cards has collapsed; financial meltdown is to be paid for with closing down schools - a disgrace, but a different topic.
Those who say carry on with Pienaar even without a new deal have to justify what is collossal payment: that is his current £2 million wages, and the money we could still get for him. All in all that is about £10 million-plus. Is Pienaar worth that for one year?
Is that gamble on one player what people expect will get us CL? I'm bemused.
25 Posted 24/08/2010 at 17:09:20
Ugly Arry: "There is no troof in the speculation. Steven is a t'rifik player for them but could be a t'rifik asset."
26 Posted 24/08/2010 at 17:20:27
27 Posted 24/08/2010 at 17:22:26
28 Posted 24/08/2010 at 17:30:32
1.He is rubbish
2, he cant head the ball
3. he is slow
4. his presence would only encourage even more hoofball from defenders
5. he doesn't score much (on the field anyway)
6. he is rubbish
29 Posted 24/08/2010 at 17:41:07
Still, Crouch would start every time for England with me... not that I give a dam about England.
30 Posted 24/08/2010 at 17:55:27
31 Posted 24/08/2010 at 18:08:23
Some of you people need medical help!
32 Posted 24/08/2010 at 18:09:57
Fuck me I make it sound so easy - I should stay away from Champ Manager!
33 Posted 24/08/2010 at 18:45:52
34 Posted 24/08/2010 at 18:50:02
35 Posted 24/08/2010 at 20:29:38
36 Posted 24/08/2010 at 20:41:03
7. He is rubbish
37 Posted 24/08/2010 at 20:53:05
What a load of absolute bollocks.
38 Posted 24/08/2010 at 20:53:54
Pienaar yes we would like to keep him but not on silly wages that would encourage the rest of the team to ask for "more please".
He's decent , but his end product is piss poor, check the stats goals , assists etc etc .
Crouch no probs with the lad , dont think he's right for us though much rather have Kranjar as others have said . Bentley on form is a cracking player, but again not for us, that Bale lad is ok i'd take him or even the young lad O'Hara.
39 Posted 24/08/2010 at 21:32:56
Much as I'd like us to sign Donovan, even if we had the money - which we don't - we wouldn't be bidding for him as Moyes doesn't think it's worth paying that kind of money for someone his age.
Moyes did say that but I don't believe Moyes on that. But it is a good haggling tactic, and I applaud him for it.
We are asked to believe that Donovan is too old to spend money on, but we'll allow Pienaar (same age) to run down his contract. Come on! Arteta is the same age, too. Give him a £20 million contract.
Donovan would be a haggled price around £8-10 million. That is too much, and foregoing the same amount to have Pienaar for just one year is supposed to make sense. It does not.
Why I see Donovan as the answer.
We know he wants to play for us; Wouldn't cost (I don't think) more than Pienaar; would need no bedding in time as he has already played well for us - but maybe a few weeks rest, and that is a negative point; even costs could be mitigated with the fabled marketing opportunities, the lack of which are so often lamented on this site.
As I have said before, I repeat. If the OS splashes a banner that Pienaar has signed a new deal with us, I'll be the first to welcome it. I have seen no evidence that he will. And if not, let clubs know we are listening to offers (even if out of the media earshot).
40 Posted 24/08/2010 at 21:39:35
Yakubu set his own standard with a top scoring season. Unfortunately the unscripted world of football allows for nice surprises and bitter disappointments. Yakubu has given us the former and only the latter now awaits, surely. I say take as much money asap - preferably off WHU - as they will never be a threat. I'd much prefer to keep Pienaar and add Crouch. If not, I would sell Pienaar, Yakubu and Vaughan. Ultimately sign Crouch and Donovan.
41 Posted 24/08/2010 at 22:49:26
42 Posted 24/08/2010 at 22:49:33
That said, the thread is pointless. Redknapp says he is going nowhere and will not sell him at any price (because he's a good player). I believe the story is also refuted from Goodison.
43 Posted 24/08/2010 at 22:59:59
We have an asset worth £10m which will be worth nothing in 9 months (possibly less) time. A swap makes perfect sense on paper regardless of whether Crouch (or anyone else) ever even steps out at Goodison because as a £10m asset he will come with a shelf life (contract) of 3 or 5yrs.
Commercial pressures will force Everton to take action if such an offer presented itself.
I want Pienaar to stay for what it's worth and happen to.rate Crouch highly too, although all his managers reluctantly end up admitting he forces their teams to play a certain way - I call it Big Dunc Syndrome - and is therefore only used from the bench (and so doesn't get 20 goals a season to answer an earlier point).
If we are forced to swap Pienaar with spurs, and while we're all indulging our fantasies, I'd go for Pavlyuchenko who would suit our 'one up top' game perfectly and I recall Moyes was interested in him when Spurs signed him.
Anyway ignore anything you see in the press, especially if it's more than a couple of days old; all of our last 5 signings have come from absolutely nowhere.. Think Bily, Heitinga, Fellaini etc
44 Posted 25/08/2010 at 02:49:02
That way we get more for him as he's tied down longer and only have to pay his increased wages until the January window (or until next week if they act quickly enough). And in January Donovan is available again.
A risky gambit by the Club mind as still nobody might want to buy him.
45 Posted 25/08/2010 at 06:16:48
46 Posted 25/08/2010 at 07:53:19
47 Posted 25/08/2010 at 09:08:41
If we swap Pienaar for Crouch then we'll have no wide players and a target man... cue hoofball ? ad nauseum. Playing Bily in a position that he's clearly not comfortable in, or suited to, is not an option.
Absolutely stupid idea in my opinion.
48 Posted 25/08/2010 at 10:02:21
We do not want Crouch. He may not have played every game at Spurs last year but his scoring record was poor, something like 6 league goals (not sure of exact stats). He would encourage too much hoofball and, considering his height, he's not that good in the air; he might win headers with his height but he doesn't do much with them. Also he's a fool because his Mrs is really quite hot!
Why do people get the idea Donovan can "replace" Pienaar? Donovan plays up front, but played for us out on the right. Pienaar, while he switches sides occasionally, plays on the left where with Baines, they are quite a threat. Therefore it is not a replacement!
49 Posted 25/08/2010 at 10:36:36
50 Posted 25/08/2010 at 11:44:30
51 Posted 25/08/2010 at 12:47:33
52 Posted 25/08/2010 at 12:34:17
53 Posted 25/08/2010 at 14:22:45
54 Posted 25/08/2010 at 14:53:21
I've been think ing that too Dave.
Previous poster saying Donovan would not replace Pienaar.
Donovan has actually played in the States on the left as well as the right, and as a striker. Pienaar usually played on the right before he came to us. But as we had the wing magician Osman (???) as well as Arteta often on the right, we put Baines out left.
I'm glad to see more support what I say on the OS message board. Next week, we could have lost a finiancial asset that could have got us Donovan or another winger; and all to have Pienaar who will leave within a year, and possibly be less than motivated about getting us up the table.
What will he care if we get into Europe? It's the height of hope to expect he'll change his mind next year, when he could go to a big club, which would not have to pay a fee. There will be no end of offers. Thinking otherwise is blinkered.
55 Posted 25/08/2010 at 15:19:26
I'm afraid it is just plain foolish to cut your nose off to spite your face because make no mistake that is what Everton are doing here. Will his heart still be with the club with his contract running down fast? The chances are it won't, specially if he agrees to sign for another club in January. The only thing he'll be interested in then is not getting injured. So from January we will have a lame duck going through the motions, running his contract down. I think you need to get real David Moyes, there's only one winner here and it won't be you.
56 Posted 25/08/2010 at 15:47:53
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