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Michael Arteton?

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Fabio Capello has apparently spoken to Mikel Arteta regarding the possibility of him playing for England

Other threads have revealed divided opinion (though with a negative majority) about whether a reasonable chance of playing for his adopted country is preferable to clinging to the hope that injuries or a catastrophic drop of form to players might open the door to him playing in Spain.

The article states that gaining a UK passport, even after the statutory five year stay in the country, would normally take nine months. However it can be fast-tracked...Why, with net immigration up 20% from 2009, might this be allowed to happen?

Two reasons: a desperate national football team...with the cogs greased by an Anglised name to appease the nationalist / patriotic / xenophobic element of the Three Lions Support...?

I give you: Michael Arteton
Ben Patchesa, York     Posted 27/08/2010 at 22:38:20

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David Price
1   Posted 27/08/2010 at 23:06:53

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No problem with Arteta and 3 lions on his shirt, anything to get Gareth Barry out of that England team.
Brendan O'Doherty
2   Posted 27/08/2010 at 23:20:32

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Can't see it.

His forward -defensive stroke might be a bit suspect.

James Flynn
3   Posted 27/08/2010 at 23:19:54

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He wants to play as an International and England offers the chance? Why not? It's a big world now for years. Arteta starting or off the bench for England WC 2014 at age 32? I'd pick him. Talent is talent.
Dennis Stevens
4   Posted 27/08/2010 at 23:25:23

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Even if he gave up on any hope of representing Spain, who's to say he'd choose to play for England? If Arteta became a British Citizen he could represent any of the constituent countries - remember, Pat van den Hauwe chose to represent Wales.
Nick Entwistle
5   Posted 28/08/2010 at 00:02:15

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Taking this to an extreme, we could have a whole England team of foreign talent simply for the fact they took the money to come to the PL. It would turn football into League Representative football that was done away with back in the... whatever decade.

This is an aweful situation that that (that that?) Chelsea supporting sports minister who died a few years back tried to promote... one of his more sane ideas.

Still, if you can have Merlene Otty represent Slovenia in the athletics...

Kevin Hudson
6   Posted 28/08/2010 at 01:04:25

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So you want Mikel to renounce his hyper-proud Basque heritage,and think it would be xenophobic of the English to be against the idea?

Newsflash: When England are playing - it IS a nationalistic thing. That is THE point of International football. Country versus country..
Elgin Joshua
7   Posted 28/08/2010 at 01:30:41

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Honestly, I don't think it will happen. Would you play for Red Shite? I mean all your life you dream of playing for your own country, and even if that is not possible, would you switch allegiance in a heartbeat?

If you ask me, I'd say Micky's playing devil's advocate here, trying to pressure the Spainish gaffer to pick him.
Charlie Percival
8   Posted 28/08/2010 at 02:24:52

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Elgin, some people have played for the red shite, vice versa. The way I see it........joining ANY other club than the team you support could be classed as being a 'traitor'!
Pat Finegan
9   Posted 28/08/2010 at 04:29:38

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I, personally, am against playing for one's adopted country as opposed to one's homeland. International football is a matter of national pride (or at least it should be).

I am from the United states. I've lived here all my life. I could see myself moving to a different country at least temporarily but I will always be an American (the same applies for every other country in the world). No legal document will ever make me Canadian or Brazilian or English or anything other than American.

I understand that I'm not better than anyone else just because I'm from America (some people still don't get that) but it will always be where I came from.

Unfortunately, the rules about nationality are, to some extent arbitrary, as they must be. There is no real way to judge someone's true nationality.

This is the lack of integrity that we talk about in football. Footballers who don't play for their country, I think, lack integrity.

I love Mikel Arteta and he is not necessarily doing anything wrong. It's just my opinion that players should play for their home countries.
Eric Myles
10   Posted 28/08/2010 at 07:20:56

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How come a foreign footballer can be given immediate British citizenship by virtue of residence but my foreign wife would have to wait for the 2 year backlog of applications to be cleared?
Liu Weixian
11   Posted 28/08/2010 at 07:20:18

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Oh please no! We have the exact kind of shit in my country where our regime offers cheap citizenships to foreigners from Europe and Africa and put them in our national team. We are still as shite and very few people now actually bother to support the national team. because we simply cannot identify with these fucking mercenaries. Once national pride is gone, it is gone.

Overrated England is as a football nation, it does not deserve to have its Britishness eroded, and certainly not in such a pathetic fashion!
Mike Green
12   Posted 28/08/2010 at 07:50:59

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Hear hear Liu.

Bottom line is it's cheating. If we're not good enough with 11 Englishmen on the field we're not good enough and it's our job to get better. After all, isn't that the idea of International "Competition".

Miky's not English, end of story.

Elgin ? great point about trying to force Spains hand.

Dennis Stevens ? valid point but you can't be serious.......?!
Chad Schofield
13   Posted 28/08/2010 at 00:22:36

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Being a European citizen, he would have no problem migrating here anyway. A change of nationality, other than offering him the chance to play for England (which he could presumably do anyway under a "Grandparent" type rule where he does not have to physically surrender his Spanish (Euro) passport... Has he not now got dual nationality) would offer him what benefits?

Regardless of whether he's English/British, in old age he would receive a State Pension, as he will have made the required National Insurance contributions (that of a small village given his wages), and heating allowance as there's no way not to accept the non-means tested benefit. He'd also presumably get Job Seekers allowance in the highly unlikely event that he lost most of his wealth and had no form of employment. Unfortunately for him, well his kids most likely, he'd be hit with our 40% Inheritance Tax rather than Spain's sliding scale system.

So other than being able to call himself an Englishman, what benefits would he get for going British?

Tony I'Anson
14   Posted 28/08/2010 at 08:31:54

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Don't do it, Mikel. Just enjoy the International breaks off with the family like the rest of us.

And listen to what Chad (#13) said. Your kids will never forgive you when they understand the implications.
Andy Callen
15   Posted 28/08/2010 at 09:14:15

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Has anyone else thought that this may simply be a talented and gifted footballer realising this could be his last change of playing at the highest level in the game? Mikel is 28, he properly has about 5 to years at the top left (maybe less given his recent injury problems) and he sees this as his only chance to play in a European Championship or World Cup.

It?s not ideal for the lad and playing for England won't mean anything to him compared with representing Spain, but he wants to test himself at the highest level. I?m sure if Everton were regularly playing in the CL this would be a non-start for him, but unfortunately this is not the case.

The truth is, while he is playing for Everton, his best chance of playing at the top level is with England. NSNO

Paul Mackie
16   Posted 28/08/2010 at 09:51:18

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I'd think I'd lose a bit of respect for Arteta if he did this. Not that I think he would...
James Stewart
17   Posted 28/08/2010 at 11:09:52

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I can see why England would want him but I hope he doesn't. Just simply because I hate the English team, full stop ?and I quite like it not including Everton players.
Jimmy Hacking
18   Posted 28/08/2010 at 11:30:30

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I'm not really bothered either way.
Shaun Brennan
19   Posted 28/08/2010 at 11:44:28

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Here's me thinking 'I thought foreigners ruined the English game'???? well that's probably the majority of England supporters' view.

Mikel, don't devalue yourself and the England team by considering playing.

if Mikel isn't good enough for Spain, tough shit; if England don't have any decent midfielders, tough shit.
Gavin Ramejkis
20   Posted 28/08/2010 at 12:22:59

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I genuinely don't know why he would be enticed to play for those perenial bunch of self-indulgent arsehole losers anyway... hmm, the temptation of lining up next to Fat Frank, Stevie Mee Laaaa and other gobshites to be pumped out of every competition they enter year after year. Mikel, don't tarnish or sullen your name with that shower of shite.
Ben Owen
21   Posted 28/08/2010 at 12:28:17

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'Follow, follow, follow, England's the team to follow... because there's nobody better than Mikel Arteta he's the best little Spaniard we knoooooww'

Hmmm, doesn't really work does it!?
Terry Hayes
22   Posted 28/08/2010 at 13:05:54

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Mikel is Spanish, not English! therefore he should in no way at all be linked with the English team. He has spent his whole career trying to play for his country which is Spain! It's hard enough trying to watch the bag of shite which England are without asking foreigners to help us out, it would be completely wrong...

Also, can you imagine him in the lineup singing the national anthem with his hand clutching the three lions badge with tears of pride in his eyes?... somehow I can't either.

Leon Jones
23   Posted 28/08/2010 at 14:32:48

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Arteta is neither Spanish nor English. He is Basque. He's just as English as he is Spanish. As he can't be a citizen of his own country due to its lack of political independence; he happens to be a citizen of both Spain and Britain. As he can't play football for his own country (the Basque country) due the lack of a FIFA-recognised national team, he is condemned to play for one of the two countries he happens to be a citizen of. As a proud Basque, he might as well choose to play for the country that is not occupying his own country.
Jon Cox
24   Posted 28/08/2010 at 16:06:19

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Look at the bigger picture. National borders comming down, Poles, Turks playing for Germany and now the Lefty meeja are trying to push Arteta into the England team. Funny that all these attitudes are happening in the same time frame.

The NWO is upon us folks.

With regards Arteta, it doesn't matter whether he's Basque or Spanish. One thing he isn't is English by birth. That should be the only criteria with which one qualifies to play for one's country.

If not, what's the point of having a Euro or a World Cup? Answer, none.

Kevin Hudson
25   Posted 28/08/2010 at 18:15:11

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Like a moth to the flame,another excuse for Gavin to trumpet his pathetic hatred of the English. Can't help yourself,can you?

How's the Lithuanian national team doing these days? Not very well,obviously,but then you wouldn't care as you (inexplicably) support Germany,don't you?

And yes,I've not forgotten that particular thread where you discussed how "good," Hitler was for the German economy.(citing 100% employment & the construction of the aurobahns)

The point: If you've not got anything good to say about this country,why go out of your way to be deliberately offensive?

Physically,unless you happen to be in better shape, Frank Lampard's probably one of the fittest blokes in the country right now,and your juvenile name-calling is redundant.

"Self-indulgent arsehole." Hoisted by your own petard.
Mike Green
26   Posted 28/08/2010 at 18:37:55

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Gavin - he'd be enticed to play for us because, when it comes to football, playing for England is a bit like playing for The Beatles.... The Stones.... Led Zep.... unlike...

Germany - David Hasslehoff
Ireland - Westlife
Lithuania - SKAMP
Canada - Paul Anka..

Get it?
Brendan O'Doherty
27   Posted 28/08/2010 at 19:04:25

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"Ireland - Westlife", Mike ?

Not "Ireland - U2", the world's biggest band. Strange.

Maybe it should also read "England - Take That."

Just a TINY bit biased, I would have to say.
Mike Green
28   Posted 28/08/2010 at 19:12:02

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Oh, please Brendan, let's not get into a U2 debate - the "Martin O'Neill" of rock ; )

Don't quote me but....

U2 - 7 No.1s

Westlife - 14 No.1s!!!!

I don't think you're giving the lads the credit that they're due ? I think only the Beatles and Elvis have had more....

"Yooooouu raaiiiisssee meee uuurrrppppppppp!!!!!
Chris Leyland
29   Posted 28/08/2010 at 19:24:23

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Anyway, as U2 shifted their tax affairs to Holland to avoid having to contribute to the Irish economy, aren't they now The Netherland's top band? I can see Heitenga and the Dutch boys singing along now "In the name of love, pleashe already, pride in the name of love."
Brendan O'Doherty
30   Posted 28/08/2010 at 19:30:41

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Oh, please Brendan lets not get into a U2 debate - the "Martin O'Neill" of rock"

You can't expect to get away with a statement like you did without being challenged! You asked for it by making such ridiculous comparison! I don't know anything about shite boy bands such as Westlife so I wasn't aware of their number 1 hits. You seem to be (says a lot!) . But what your comparison doesn't stand up, because you are measuring success by the number of No 1s. U2 have sold millions more records (albums/CDs) than them, and are much bigger worldwide.

If you mention Beatles, Stones, Zep, as the great English bands (which I agree with, especially the last one), to make a fair comparison you have to mention U2 as the greatest Irish band. Fair's fair.

Otherwise it's Westlife v Take That.
Mike Green
31   Posted 28/08/2010 at 19:42:39

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Fair enough Brendan, U2 are Ireland's greatest band. So to make it a fair contest...

U2 v Take That?
Brendan O'Doherty
32   Posted 28/08/2010 at 19:54:05

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Ha - ha Mike. Don't be silly. I suspect you may have been on the wacky baccy again.
Mike Green
33   Posted 28/08/2010 at 20:00:22

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OK... OK.. you're right, that was stupid..

U2 v Bros.....?
Michael Kenrick
34   Posted 28/08/2010 at 19:58:24

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I know there was a post somewhere that said Arteta was already a British citizen, which somewhat surprised me... [Could have sworn it was on this thread but I can't find it now.]

I thought I'd cross-check and, sure enough, it seems that he did become a UK citizen a few months ago:

I think that (if true) puts a very different complexion on this whole discussion. I would go with Leon "Ossie" Jones @ #23.
Brendan O'Doherty
35   Posted 28/08/2010 at 20:03:04

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I think I've made my point about like-for-like comparisons.

NB. - "like-for-like."

Enough said.
Gavin Ramejkis
36   Posted 28/08/2010 at 20:18:11

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Kevin you really sound like a retard and your own national press and football supprters around the UK call Frank Lampard "Fat Frank" so hoist that over your Union Jack shorts and jack boots you tool. "his pathetic hatred of the English", try again bell end, try my dislike of the English national football team, if you are trying to get on a soap box try to make statements of fact and not jingoistic comments in your own mind, I am English, I was born here as where my parents. I chose to support who I like if that offends you I suggest you stick to reading the Sun and the Daily Mail.

Deliberately offensive is what I call the continual support of a perenial failing football team that has players like Rooney who had the audacity to call supporters who had no doubt saved their hard earned for a long time to travel to SA for the World Cup finals to be subjected to what can only be called the worst team there who were fortunate to get past the group stage only to be taught a footballing lesson by the first decent side they met or do you honestly believe they would have also taught the Argentinian team with Messi et al playing a lesson too?

I guess I hit a raw nerve with you Kevin as your retort you can't even spell autobahn. A simple question for you Kevin, how many trophies? Uruguay has more World Cups that England and a population of just 1.5m when they won it in 1930 and with a smaller population than England still got further again. Your arguments and flag waving really do you no favours.

Mike, Lithuania's most famous export was probably Charles Bronson an actor not a footballer but then again neither were the Beatles, but your pointless statement was what again?
Chris Leyland
37   Posted 28/08/2010 at 20:45:41

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Kevin - Gavin has previously explained why he chose to support Germany. it is because they used to win things when he was growing up.

It is a similar reason that Norweigans, Thais and countless other glory hunters around the world chose to support Liverpool.
Jon Cox
38   Posted 28/08/2010 at 20:37:17

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I'm not sure but something tells me that it wasn't how good or how bad England were as footballers that did for us in the World Cup. I think more to the point it was the relationship between (a) Capello and the lads and (b) the rival factions in the team.

Whatever it was, I don't want to hear or see words like 'jackboot' mentioned on this website, especialy when directed at an England supporter. I mean it's nearly as bad as being called a Kopite.Just so everyone's clear.

Now then, let's get back to the good stuff:

Mike Green
39   Posted 28/08/2010 at 21:59:17

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Gavin - I bow to your greater judgement but I always thought Lithuania's greatest export was misery - not Charlie Bronson....?

And it's "were" not "where" and "perennial" not "perenial" if we're going to get anal about grammar and spelling.
Steve Pugh
40   Posted 28/08/2010 at 22:42:07

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I've said it before and I'll say it again, you should only be allowed to play for your country of birth. Stop all these glory hunting teams like Germany recruiting foreigners into their sides because their own players aren't good enough.

But then there is a small part of me that would like to see Lampard or Gerrard dropped to let Mikki in.
Stuart O'Malley
41   Posted 28/08/2010 at 22:39:24

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Hey Chris (17), I started supporting my beloved Everton when we won the FA Cup in 1984. How else was I to know about them living in Dublin when my father was a big Man U fan, and my older brother too?

To suggest that the fans who became fans through seeing the club win something are just glory hunters is bollox. How do you expect people who are not from the area to notice the club? We can't all have Toffee-mad dads, or all live around the corner from Goodison. So what if Gavin started following the blues when we won something, we have won fuck all for the last 15 years and he is still here. That's a fan in my book, just as much as you.

As for supporting your own national team, as an Irishman I have always had an interest in the England teams at the World Cup, especially if a blue was in the team, I would like to see him do well.

Truth be told, that shower who represented England were an embarrassment to your country, and the total lack of respect shown to their own fans shocking. Rooney mouthing at the camera on the way off the pitch was a disgrace, but totally summmed up their attitude towards the people who put them there in the first place. I really hope Arteta does not play with them.

Kevin Hudson
42   Posted 28/08/2010 at 22:08:08

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It is about persistent incitement, Gavin.

You spent the whole summer revelling in England's misfortune, and it's clear that any future thread that mentions England is predictably going to be met by your unmitigated angst. Any chance of bottling up your bile? Getting a little boring now.

I couldn't give a rat's who you support, although the fact that you & your parents are English, your ancestors are Lithuanian (refugees given sanctuary in the UK perhaps?) yet you support Germany is totally screwed, and you know it.

What offends me is you deliberately and repeatedly go out of your way to offfend those who do support England, and for this I'm a 1970' style, jingoistic, Union Jack short-wearing, tub-thumping, BNP card-carrying, Last Night at the Proms attending, Sun reading cliche, am I? Wow - what Socratic wisdom! The Oxford Debating Society is missing it's keynote speaker!

Likewise: "Tool, Bell End & Retard." Looks like we could have a real battle of wills, here folks! But my favourite piece of intellectual bankruptcy has to be the inference that you won't support your own country, simply because you don't like the men picked to play for it. What a diva!

Here's how it is:

You're the one with the original problem.You hate the English team. Fine... but this is an Everton forum, so there ought not be ANY reason for you to vent this self-hatred. The problem is, you enjoy doing it, and knowing it winds people up makes it all the sweeter; then you have the temerity to feign surprised and righteous indignation that anyone could possibly take you to task for it!!

How dare they challenge my right to be obnoxious!!

How to lose friends and alienate people: Tell them: "I'm English, but I support Germany," and then slag off the English at EVERY opportunity!!

Oh, and since the juvenile in you decided to point out that I spelt "autobahn" incorrectly (the clue is QWERTY - obviously I hit R not T by mistake) you can ONLY get away with that, providing you don't make mistakes of your own, and aquaint yourself with basic punctuation.

I hereby present the correct spelling of the word-PERENNIAL!! Stop acting like the worst brat, and enjoy your bratwurst... (Couldn't resist!)
Chris Leyland
43   Posted 28/08/2010 at 23:55:40

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Kevin 42:
"So what if Gavin started following the blues when we won something, we have won fuck all for the last 15 years and he is still here. That's a fan in my book, just as much as you."

I did not mention in my original post why Gavin supported Everton and whether he was a real fan or not. I was commenting on his international affiliations.

Gavin was born in England and has commented previously that he is English (amongst other nationalities). The difference between him and you is that he actually hates his national team and chose to support a totally different one in Germany. I assume that, whilst you follow England, you also support Ireland?
Kevin Hudson
44   Posted 29/08/2010 at 00:10:20

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Chris, that quote came from Stuart (41) not me...

I agree with your post in 37 though. :)
Chris Leyland
45   Posted 29/08/2010 at 01:19:10

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Sorry, Kevin, I meant Stuart. I agree with your posts too. Gavin clearly has a large chip on his shoulder about England for reasons best left to a shrink to uncover! Anyway, I'm off now to get out my Panini World Cup sticker books to decide which country I'm gonna start supporting.
Brendan O'Doherty
46   Posted 29/08/2010 at 01:19:55

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I don't think Stuart said that he followed England.

What he said was "as an Irishman I have always had an interest in the England teams at the world cup, especially if a blue was in the team I would like to see him do well ."

Small, but at the same time, huge difference. Of course he supports Ireland.

Had to point that out. Do carry on with this interesting discussion.
Mike Green
47   Posted 29/08/2010 at 01:30:24

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Just out of interest do you work for the Irish Tourist Board?

If so could you fill me in on Eamon de Valera?
Brendan O'Doherty
48   Posted 29/08/2010 at 01:47:17

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"Dev" was a former Taoiseach and President, Mike. One of the 1916 Easter Rising leaders. Hope that's enough for you.

Contrary to reports, he was not an inside left in our 1914-15 Championship winning side.
Peter Hall
49   Posted 29/08/2010 at 10:10:07

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"Why, with net immigration up 20% from 2009, might this be allowed to happen?"

I don't know, mate ? same reason they let the Patchesas in all those years ago, I hope.
Leighton Cooper
50   Posted 29/08/2010 at 11:06:24

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U2: Adam Clayton ? English, The Edge ? born in Barking, Essex. I suppose they are a bit like the Irish football team!
Eric Myles
51   Posted 30/08/2010 at 09:31:19

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Jon Cox (#24) Country of birth does not determine nationality
My daughter was born in Dubai, she's not an Arab.
One of my mates was born in India, he's not Indian.
The son of one of my mates was born in Bangladesh, he's not Bangladeshi.
Kevin Naylor
52   Posted 30/08/2010 at 20:18:12

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There's been a run of money for the Villa job on Moyes at Ladbrokes. Could it be possible he's walked?

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