Sometimes you need a day to gather the thoughts when analysing a game in detail... Sod that, it would take months to sum today's game up and then still miss something.
The match had everything. It's clear now, the formation that needs to happen has to feature Coleman at right back, Heitinga at the back with Jags and that is the defence sorted.
Fellaini is back, his form in the 2nd half was excellent as the holding player but still breaking forward. Yakubu needs to come in and partner Cahill. Osman stays right, Pienaar left, Arteta free to probe and attack.
The spirit is there to see and a fantastic comeback in an awesome game of football played by both sides.
A credit to the game.
David Price, Posted 11/09/2010 at 17:19:23
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1 Posted 11/09/2010 at 18:36:33
2 Posted 11/09/2010 at 18:50:14
I thought Hibbert had a decent game today, though I hope I never have to see him in his ballies again. Got up and down, didn't really put a foot wrong defensively. If anything, most of United's attacks came down our left ? Baines stuck up the pitch (or as with the second goal, ball-watching and standing 10 yards off his man) or Distin doing his best Joseph Yobo impressions.
3 Posted 11/09/2010 at 18:56:48
The YAK looked really strong... today!! But now he can also be really lethargic as well... Still , the spirit IS still there, and I feel like we are getting close to our best starting 11... COYB.
4 Posted 11/09/2010 at 19:10:51
5 Posted 11/09/2010 at 19:23:27
For my money, if we had Donovan playing, Hibbert would be more effective going forward.
6 Posted 11/09/2010 at 19:30:20
Distin was caught out by the quality long ball a couple of times but identifying him as the weak link camouflages the fact that Jags is still well below par.
7 Posted 11/09/2010 at 19:33:58
It seems pretty conclusive that, as long as Moyes is manager, Osman and Hibbert will be regulars ? even when they play below average, which is quite regularly. Go figure that one out!
8 Posted 11/09/2010 at 19:39:21
9 Posted 11/09/2010 at 20:13:14
However, the central defence is a catastrophy for us. I can't even remeber the last time we kept a clean sheet apart from low-level opposition ? and even some of them scored against us.
10 Posted 11/09/2010 at 20:29:52
Jimmy Changa (I prefer a burrito myself), good call about Coleman. For now, a top quality impact sub.
11 Posted 11/09/2010 at 20:49:41
12 Posted 11/09/2010 at 21:22:15
13 Posted 11/09/2010 at 21:39:29
Fact is, that is our Achilles Heel, we are shocking in that department. Distin has little or no positional sense, is slow and awkward; he needs replacing. Problem is, we've got no one unless Duffy comes through. Hetinga was at fault for their opener and may be better than Distan but I doubt he'd be the solution. Hibbert had a decent game. Coleman played well when he came on but would be much better deployed wide right replacing the wholly ineffective Osman in that position, he continually drifted inside today as he always does and offered absolutely nothing wide right.
I find it hard to be critical of Baines, the lad is expected to carry the threat alongside Pienaar in every game. His work rate is outstanding but he needs to be able to rely on others when he pushes forward and its not always forthcoming. Yes, he was exposed at times today but he was terrific at getting forward and ultimately delivered the crosses which led to the goals which evened up the scores, hence I think we need to cut him some slack here.
14 Posted 11/09/2010 at 21:53:19
You have everyone in this place wondering how on earth you could think Osman played well.
15 Posted 11/09/2010 at 21:48:36
I wonder if the ref would have blown for time if it was at the other end? ? I doubt it.
The villain in defence was Distin; he was awful today.
16 Posted 11/09/2010 at 23:09:38
At times it looked like we had a back 3 of Heitinga, Jags and Distin, because Heitinga was so deep. Look at their first goal, where they broke forward through midfield and he was level with our centre halves. The team had better balance when we put Fellaini there, and that released Arteta a bit.
Credit where it's due, my biggest gripe with Moyes is his substitutions ? I feel he often leaves it too late, and never really goes for it, but today his subs were spot on. The Yak put in a good shift, and we looked more dangerous with him up front. And Coleman added extra quality on the right hand side.
Hibbert has always been a great defender, but he is lacking going forward. He is what you need in a backs to the wall job, but if you need a goal he offers you nothing going forward. We immediately had more threat with Coleman, who won a dangerous freekick and put a cross on Cahill's head within minutes of being on.
I am a Hibbert fan but surely if we are to progress, and break teams down who come to Goodison and put men behind the ball, then we will need more attacking impetus from the right, to match the output we get from Baines and Pienaar on the left.
By the way, what a compliment from Man U - that was the most defensive line-up I have seen from them in a long time playing against us, O'Shea in midfield??!!
17 Posted 12/09/2010 at 00:56:37
18 Posted 12/09/2010 at 01:06:28
19 Posted 12/09/2010 at 04:00:52
You have named six players , I presume there also will be two Centre Backs, two Full Backs and a Keeper to make up the starting eleven.
No Cahill for you then?
20 Posted 12/09/2010 at 05:17:51
21 Posted 12/09/2010 at 08:01:17
But with this we need Felliaini playing deep to combat the height of Andy Carrol.
However i would not be at all surprised to see Neville back in the team- given Newcastle have a combatitive midfield ( of thugs).
22 Posted 12/09/2010 at 07:36:29
23 Posted 12/09/2010 at 08:30:20
24 Posted 12/09/2010 at 09:08:59
Coleman may have been caught out by Gigs but that was when we were pushing high up the field and Hibbert would have been in more trouble than Seamus.
Heitinga, Fellaini and Cahill should all push back one line, with Distin coming out and Yakubu slotting in up top. The Yak was impressive and totally deserves a chance. Maybe when Anichebe is fit he could come in on the right.
All in all great feeling coming back last night, great Everton spirit boys! COYB.
25 Posted 12/09/2010 at 09:51:50
Cracking game. But still a few head-scratching moments from Moyes... Osman starting in wide right has to be the most repeated mistake Moyes has made over his career... Great ball through to Pienaar by Osman ? but he was pretty useless on the right for the rest of the game.
Moyes's substitutions were also baffling... Hibbert had a great game (even managing to show us his trunks) ? and he gets replaced by another right back; Distin had a shocker and Heitinga gets dragged off... At 3-1 down, I really didn't understand these substitutions. If we were bringing Coleman on for his attacking threat, then surely Osman is the one that gets the hook...
Good match and result ? but I can't really see how the author is coming to the conclusion that Osman is the answer in right midfield.
26 Posted 12/09/2010 at 10:05:35
27 Posted 12/09/2010 at 11:03:26
Thankfully he wasn't subbed late on today eh, 2 awsome headers and it's difficult to recall Vidic been as wound up as that by any other forward, Cahill IMO, was fantastic today, dragged us back into that game.
Andy *17, you'd play Beckford in place of Tiny. I'm glad your not picking the team.
28 Posted 12/09/2010 at 11:07:01
29 Posted 12/09/2010 at 11:28:22
30 Posted 12/09/2010 at 11:58:02
Both should be remembered fondly but they aren't good enough. And certainly not on the same flank at the same time.
Cahill shouldn't be leading the line. No fkin way. He always give it his all but he's negated playing there. If that last cross had come in the 60th minute he would have been on the near post marked by Vidic instead of picking his run through the centre - that's why it works for him.
Distin was responsible for all three goals. How long is this decision going to take when we have a World Cup finalist available at centre back? Instead we stick him in midfield where he takes the place of our best defensive midfielder, who goes further forward and impacts on our best attacking midfielder. You couldn't make it up.
So in short. I think Moyes got just about every decision wrong yesterday... except the bit where he corrected two of his intial errors in the 69th minute (Moyes in "waits until 65-70 minute mark for sub" shock) with the game pretty much out of reach barring a miracle. Which thankfully we got.
31 Posted 12/09/2010 at 15:20:12
32 Posted 12/09/2010 at 15:55:05
33 Posted 12/09/2010 at 15:59:24
34 Posted 12/09/2010 at 17:05:49
35 Posted 12/09/2010 at 17:08:41
36 Posted 12/09/2010 at 19:42:36
37 Posted 12/09/2010 at 19:57:20
38 Posted 12/09/2010 at 21:04:46
39 Posted 12/09/2010 at 22:33:47
Osman's pass to Pieneaar was good, but that scuffed shot (again when he'd got into a central attacking position) was very poor.
If Baines is going to dole out crossing practice to Hibbo, perhaps he could give Arteta a few pointers.
I felt that all our players had good spells in the game, but sadly quite a did not cover themselves in glory as well... Obviously, Distin being singled (rightly so in my opinion) out, but Baines after the first half goal should have closed Nani harder for the second. Also that shit pass from Jag's to Arteta that gave pink little pig Scholes a golden chance.
Howard was outstanding .
The ref was pretty awful, not just for the non added time, but Evans kept putting his arms over Cahill's shoulders (dodge elbow on Vidic...), and the freekick that was never a free kick on the edge of our area first half (can't say I saw the "Rooney doll" but sounded funny).
Still, rarely been happier with a point.
40 Posted 12/09/2010 at 23:27:37
Distin had a shocker. He does theoretically bring balance & experience, but in reality we have never looked totally comfortable or safe when Distin has played, in the way that we did when Lescott partnered Jags. 18 mths ago clean sheets were the order of the day. Now they are as rare as rocking horse shit.
Heitinga was also out of sorts. At least part of this was down to him playing a normal midfield role. His strength is when the ball is coming on to him & he can attack it. He is instinctively defensive, not offensive.
Felllaini must be used in his best position. I'd go so far as to say he's amongst the best in the world on his day as a holding midfielder.
I feel for Osman. Moyes picks the team, not Osman. Moyes puts him wide right, and Osman being the team man that he is, just gets on with it. But it's a waste. Osman can play on the right of a midfield 3, when the FB's are used for width. But I don't like 5 in midfield and I don't see the point in Everton playing it when we don't have a natural wide right player, nevermind one with pace.
I have harped on about 4-2-3-1 plenty in recent weeks. But it's for good reasons. One is above (we don't have a wide right player). Another is that we leave too many gaps in places that good players exploit. Another is that I truly feel we have the players to make this formation work, and even that it will make us more offensive and more successful.
I found myself reflecting on our last minute counter attack yesterday and wondering when we last exploited the power of such a threat. I'll say it again, I believe we have absolutely no reason to not just go for it this season. We just need to play to our strengths. Or, to put it another way, not put square pegs in round holes.
I believe if the natural order takes over, as it should, then Coleman and Rodwell will assume their places in the starting 11 by right. Both bring energy, verve and no small amount of skill. Hibbert and Neville are capable full backs, but in my view our FB's will need to deliver more attacking threat and width in future. Coleman and Baines fit that bill. In a 4-2-3-1 the holding midfielders cover for the marauding full backs.
In summary, I see the light now, but I'm not sure yesterday's finale will provide the full kick that we need to get right up the table. There remain lessons to be learned and pieces to be changed before the finished article appears.
At least we've found the net again at long last. But the defense continues to worry me.
I harbour hopes of Bily revelling in the same position as Adam Johnson. It's his natural role and, frankly I see no other option for him. Again, I see him on the right of a midfield 3.
This 4-5-1 is causing us problems. The sooner we ditch it and simply adopt a formation that suits us the better I am sure it will be.
41 Posted 13/09/2010 at 01:09:35
Baines, who is not the most vocal of players, felt compelled to give the big lump a bollocking yesterday.
We know from his time playing alongside Yobo, and in particular Lescott, that Jagieka is actually capable of forming a solid partnership with someone, a partnership that doesn't ship soft goals every single game. However, it's becoming increasingly evident that that someone is never going to be Sylvain shagging Distin.
42 Posted 13/09/2010 at 06:15:15
If we, almost to a man, can see it... why can't Mr Moyes?
43 Posted 13/09/2010 at 09:47:23
The discussion about whether we should have a right footer and a leftie at centre half shouldn't come in to it, at this level players should be able to use both feet to an acceptable level. Just because Distin is left footed shouldn't mean he's an automatic pick, Heitinga is a better defender in my opinion and should be alongside Jagielka.
44 Posted 13/09/2010 at 10:18:34
45 Posted 13/09/2010 at 12:07:12
On another subject...I just spoke to my mate for the first time since Saturday and his opening line was 'we were brilliant on saturday - how good were we'...erm....
Were we not 3-1 down after 90mins...I think the times match report read 'Pienaar scored agains the run of play'...
So my questions are 'was a great game?' Did we play well? because I can remember being extremely frustrated and annoyed at times with our lack of guile.
46 Posted 13/09/2010 at 12:15:00
Yes - the ref should have added a bit of time for the celebrations etc. BUT what is more annoying is the fact that we only started to have meaningful attempts on goal dring INJURY time....
I, if manager, would be more annoyed at that.
47 Posted 13/09/2010 at 12:17:00
48 Posted 13/09/2010 at 12:20:37
On to Osman..can we cut him and Hibbo a little slack please. They play where ever they are told to play and they never kick up a fuss. Ok his best position is in the middle of the park and I think that the tales of him being too light weight are way off the mark. He's as strong as an ox with the ball at his feet.
So on Saturday he was ineffective - but he still chalked up an assist for a very impressive 'vollyed' pass to Pienaar which put us in the lead.
I also think that its difficult for any player to play against Evra - he's world class with bags and bags of pace. Landon Donovan would have struggled on Saturday with the lack of service and playing against a pacey LB.
For me Osman is an all round midfielder that we can rely upon. Hibbert too...CB, LB, RB - doesnt care as long as he gets a jersey - i'd sooner that than glitzy blinged up lady boys looking for a stepping stone to Man City...
49 Posted 13/09/2010 at 13:44:18
He was right to have a pop a the referee because the ref got it very wrong. It is now known that Jags only shot when he did because he'd heard the whistle and shot in frustration. He would ordinarily have carried the ball closer to make sure.
That doesn't disguise our shortcomings (formation, Distin, Osman OOP, Heitinga OOP) but rules are rules.
One footnote though. I wonder if what happened in the final minute of Fergie time on Sat has, after 8 years, opened up Moyes' eyes to the power of real counter-attacking football. We have never employed it, but ManU and Arsenal have turned it into a devastating art. We can but hope.
50 Posted 13/09/2010 at 15:42:54
51 Posted 13/09/2010 at 16:01:33
52 Posted 13/09/2010 at 15:57:25
Coleman - Jagielka - Heitinga - Baines
Anyone but Osman - Arteta - Piennar
53 Posted 13/09/2010 at 16:12:40
Go to the website Footy Tube, they've got MOTD highlights on there ...
54 Posted 14/09/2010 at 09:51:00
Why does it take a fourth official and an electronic board to give our players a kick up the backside. We were trailing early on in the second half - that leaves 40 or so minutes to push and play with urgency. We didn't really do that until the 90th minute. That, while fruitful on Saturday, rarely pays off for us and disappoints me that it takes 'injury time' to occur before we start piling on a bit of pressure.
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