Following up on Fanshares that only got 9 responses, I would like to point you in the direction of the http://www.arsenalfanshare.com/ website that explains in easy to understand graphics the Fan Share concept. There is a good argument that an Everton Fan Share should be set up as we are in need of a significant amount of funds for the Club. But can anyone find out how much revenue the Arsenal Fan Share concept has actually raised since launch?
We all know the Everton Board of Directors do not want to dilute their shares and anyone running a business will understand this. However, a very successful business person once said to me: "Tony, everything has a price". PLEASE let's not make this a debate about slagging off the Board or individuals on it as that's already been done to high heaven on here, and I will ask Michael to remove any such comments from this debate.
So for the sake of this discussion, let's just assume the board are willing to consider an Everton Fan Share, and have laid out an olive branch to the fan base saying.. .well, get on with it. Can we discuss the "Road Map" from a bunch of supporters using the much over-used phrase "someone's got to do something" toward setting up what Arsenal have.
Tony I'Anson, Posted 15/09/2010 at 11:01:35
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1 Posted 15/09/2010 at 15:46:36
A normal share, which guarantees a place at the AGM, costs £9,500. A fanshare costs £95, which can be paid by direct debit at less that a tenner a month.
A fanshare owner is placed into a draw to attend the AGM.
Fanshares can be accumulated over time. One hundred fanshares guarantees a place at the AGM.
The fanshare society coexists with, and is accepted by, Arsenal Football Club. In theory at least it's similar to a bicameral parliament but only for the purposes of custodianship, standards of practice and heritage; this is underwitten by Equiniti Financial Services Ltd.
The Fanshare Society was established by the Arsenal Supporters Trust. Everton supporters already have several well organised clubs and fora. Toffeeweb, for example.
2 Posted 15/09/2010 at 17:17:35
3 Posted 15/09/2010 at 17:59:26
Christopher, the Arsenal Supporters Trust run the Arsenal Fan Share. In the same vein, and official Everton Fan group could set up an Everton Fan Share. I don't think this is the kind of thing that Toffeeweb Towers would be willing and able to do though.
Dennis(#2) I think your last sentence makes a lot of sense for the board to consider the proposal. The obvious use of funds would be to do with renovation of some or all of Goodison.
4 Posted 15/09/2010 at 18:07:49
What about KEIOC doing it?
5 Posted 15/09/2010 at 19:14:28
And also, whatever money generated is shown transparently on a website with how it is spent broken down, with well over half given to Davey... Then let's go ? Cheque books @ the ready! COYB
6 Posted 15/09/2010 at 19:40:50
Contact the Editor for full payment details and be the first in your supporters group to step down the Everton Fan Share path to a glorious Blue future.
7 Posted 15/09/2010 at 20:01:31
8 Posted 15/09/2010 at 20:03:47
This is good for a possible Everton Fan Share as 90% of the legwork - legal, web design etc has been done. With permission from the board of the Arsenal Fan Share, we could have the same in blue, using all the same professional organisations to re-produce the same.
On launching the website, there were 100 visitors per Second to it and significant funds have been raised. I have been pointed in the direction of the person to contact from the Arsenal Fan Share board to find out more.
9 Posted 15/09/2010 at 20:22:30
"Burnham said that he viewed the AST as 'by far the most successful Trust operating in the Premier League'. He also said he would work with the Trust to help it grow share ownership in Arsenal even further.
10 Posted 15/09/2010 at 20:43:05
It's a matter of Will. Unfortunately, there seems to be a ubiquitous drought.
One person's determination often has unexpected and far reaching consequences, I believe. So maybe this idea will take flight in the future.
We can live and work in hope. It's good to hear that Burnham is advocating the idea.
11 Posted 15/09/2010 at 21:46:50
another good idea and one that I would consider putting a considerable amount into if Kenwright was no longer chairman.
As you rightly said lets not turn it negative and a model like the Arsenal fanshare concept would appear to be the way to go however I do believe our club is at the crossroads and until ownership,a business plan and ground development opportunities are sorted out these ideas need to be shelved.
12 Posted 15/09/2010 at 23:26:34
He mentioned the idea of establishing a Supporters? Trust based on 20,000 people each putting in £1,000 for a share, thus raising £20 million. These ?shares? could be passed on to their family members, thus ensuring that ownership would remain in ?the people?s hands? (he had alluded to Abramovich, who had apparently wanted to buy a Spanish club originally, but was put off by their ownership structures).
He felt the £20 million could be used for progressively upgrading Goodison over a number of years. The Q and A session was cut short because he had to rush off, so there wasn?t really a chance to ask him about Kenwright?s reactions to this idea.
13 Posted 16/09/2010 at 02:31:57
All we need is to start to make it happen ? and it will. Just so long as you put your full support behind this initiative and start promoting it amongst your fellow Evertonians. I'm allready getting loads of enquiries.
14 Posted 16/09/2010 at 02:29:13
The links to the articles John posted are http://www.toffeeweb.com/season/07-08/comment/fan/article.asp?submissionID=8668 and http://www.toffeeweb.com/season/07-8/comment/fan/article.asp?submissionID=8781 but they don't work anymore.
I agree with Dennis and Jay on this, I wouldn't put any money into it if it was under BK or the board?s control. But if there was a trust that was dedicated to using the money to refurbish Goodison, or to sweeten a deal with an enabling partner for a new stadium, they I?d be interested.
15 Posted 16/09/2010 at 08:50:23
16 Posted 16/09/2010 at 08:53:58
"KEIOC is fully supportive of any sensible initiative that promotes the involvement of the fans in deciding the future direction of the club, thereby preventing involvement in plans which are not in the best interests of the club and its supporters. With the prospect of a change in ownership in the future a reality, it is now more essential than ever that the precedent of supporters representation at board level is established at Everton before the opportunity is lost forever; an action which may prevent the club falling into unsuitable hands in the future"
If anyone wants to contact KEIOC, you know where they are.
17 Posted 16/09/2010 at 08:43:36
Unfortunately some people seem to be getting hung up on the current board situation, but this should not be issues for people wanting to see the club move forward on a more steady footing. Not everybody likes or gets on with each other but at the core we all want what's best for our club... Now let's make it our club in every regard rather than the 'I have a season ticket' approach.
18 Posted 16/09/2010 at 08:54:44
19 Posted 16/09/2010 at 09:44:36
20 Posted 16/09/2010 at 10:03:39
Plus, I'd rather not just leave this "share nonsense" to others thanks. Are you assuming we don't have the intelligence to see what share ownership and control of a company actually means?
21 Posted 16/09/2010 at 10:11:30
22 Posted 16/09/2010 at 12:43:50
'Are there enough shares available in the market place for Arsenal Fanshare to buy? Our market research suggests that there will be enough shares, and we are often contacted by people who wish to sell their shares only to other supporters. As the scheme grows and has a greater demand for shares, we aim to enter into discussions with the club and the major shareholders to seek a greater supply.'
We know there are 35,000 shares in EFC valued at approx £1,500 each (note the Arsenal Shares are £10,000 each) so this would mean it would take a lot less time to accumulate the 'fanshare' to purchase a full share.
Additional to this we would need to have shareholders willing to sell....
BK - 8,499
JW - 6,412
RE - 8,146
Lord Grantchester - 2,773
AJA - 1,830
BWTSltd - 973
PDC - 714
Small Shareholders - 5653
Would this be possible?
I would hope so.......
23 Posted 16/09/2010 at 13:11:49
Share Price £1,500
Break that down into 1/48 equals £31.25p per month - thus every 4 years of paying 31.25 a month into the scheme you would register One Full Share.
Alternatively for every 48 members the scheme had involved it could be responsible for One Share in the club.
24 Posted 16/09/2010 at 15:00:09
Of course, we are still discussing this in the context of the article (EFC laid out an olive branch to the fan base saying.. .well, get on with it.).
25 Posted 16/09/2010 at 15:17:58
If you get a few hundred on this basis, it isn't going to work. If you get 10,000 or more, then it might be worth the effort.
I can sort the database out as could probably several others.
26 Posted 16/09/2010 at 15:41:56
Do the maths: that's over £5,000 per share now. BK and friends paid just £857 per share. Something is just not right.
Also, there is a huge difference between buying new shares (the money goes to the club) and buying existing shares that are already available (the money goes to the owners of those shares ? zero goes to the club).
A Fan Share scheme based on the former is probably the way to get things off the ground ? hence my serious offer to get it started now, Tony!
But as momentum builds, the scheme has to be fed with new shares. However, there are rules related to the issuance of new shares that may limit what can actually be done. Who knows about that side of things?
27 Posted 16/09/2010 at 16:03:20
Michael (#26) Can TW do this? How many email addresses are in your list?
28 Posted 16/09/2010 at 16:11:15
29 Posted 16/09/2010 at 17:07:31
However, to do a share issuance, someone has to underwrite the full number of shares (70,000) at an agreed price so that the existing share holders have the opportunity to sell at that price.
Michael (#28) The share price is still at around £1500 when you just want one or a few shares, if someone wanted to purchase a significant amount of shares they have to agree a price with a shareholder / a number of shareholders, that's were the £5000 comes into play (ie the shareholder values the asset at that price) ? that's a limited company for you!
30 Posted 16/09/2010 at 21:23:27
"Arsenal Fanshare has been established by the AST to increase supporter ownership and representation at Arsenal."
"The AST recently surveyed its membership on their preferred ownership structure at Arsenal. Ninety percent of AST members rate maintaining the club's custodianship and protecting the long-term future to be the most important priority of Arsenal's Board. There is little support for the club being taken private with eighty-four percent preferring Arsenal's ownership model to be one that includes supporter representation."
"Arsenal Fanshare meets the demand from Arsenal Supporters that the club should remain in plural ownership. Arsenal is simply too important an institution to be owned by just one person."
"Plurality in the club's ownership structure has served Arsenal well over the years and is the best way to ensure the necessary checks and balances are in place to protect the club's long-term future."
The AST welcomes the support that the Arsenal Board and Chief Executive Ivan Gazidis have given to the scheme. In addition the club's other major shareholders, Lady Nina Bracewell-Smith and Red and White Holdings (Alisher Usmanov) have also given their backing to Arsenal Fanshare.
Payton continued: "The support Arsenal Fanshare has from all of the club's major shareholders should allow all talk of a takeover to be put to one side."
"Throughout its history, Arsenal has always looked to the future, and has been at the forefront of important developments in football. Innovations have ranged from the introduction of floodlit football and the renaming of 'Gillespie Road' tube station to 'Arsenal,' through to the building of the landmark Emirates stadium and transformation of the game in England with the pioneering appointment of the first successful overseas manager in Arsene Wenger. Arsenal Fanshare continues this innovation and sends a positive message to the wider football community about the importance of involving supporters in a club's future."
"Arsenal supporters are fortunate that our club's structure and philosophy allows this opportunity to be developed. Supporters at many other Premier League clubs would love the chance to have a similar opportunity to play a part in their ownership structure. We urge all Arsenal fans to take this unique opportunity and get involved. By working together we can make Arsenal even stronger."
31 Posted 16/09/2010 at 20:40:11
As I recall, this was advertised as 6 for 1, when there were just 5,000 shares outstanding. Each existing share entitled the holder to purchase up to six new shares, with their existing 'old' share being converted to a 'new' share. All the extra cash went into the club, with Peter Johnson underwriting the issue, and he ended up buying a significant number of the shares, thus pumping an addition few million quid into the club's coffers.
I guess you're absolutely right: the price of EFC shares is purely nominal. I had always assumed it would bear some relation to an apparent valuation of the club, but this is apparently not the case, based on what you are saying and on the otherwise bizarre fact the price has not changed significantly since the late-90s.
So... looking forward now to a Fan Share concept, and how that might work for Everton, yes, it would be nice to start the scheme on the basis of purchasing (by installment) full shares at £1,500... however, as I've said, that money does not go to the club, so what's the point?
It only becomes meaningful in the context of new shares. Yet Alistair has demonstrated that the MINIMUM tranche would be 35,000, one-for-one, and the price on these would be what? I would guess between £1,500 and £2,500, depending on the club valuation basis. If purely a nominal price, then that price would be anyone's guess.
But here's the viability gap: Even at £1,000 each, that's THIRTY-FIVE MILLION POUNDS of new money. In matchday terms, that's your average match-attending Evertonian ponying up £1k each or committing to the installment program. So far, I've got 127 people interested...
I don't see the point if we're just buying existing shares, as the money DOES NOT GO TO THE CLUB. So then there's the mechanics of how you get it off the ground within the strictures of a Rights Issue... especially the need for a moneybags to underwrite the entire thing.
32 Posted 17/09/2010 at 00:15:59
I would suggest your next port of call would be to speak with Phil Carter.
As well as being a real gentleman he is also an ex Merchant banker and would certainly help with any serious proposal.
33 Posted 17/09/2010 at 00:25:58
But he will not do it for the same reason buying the club is so complicated.
34 Posted 17/09/2010 at 01:23:16
1) a permanent home page link about this on TW home page for a few months to see if momentum builds.
2) a one-off mailout to subscribers to ask them the direct question - would you put money into a fan share? Maybe ask the reasons for a Yes or No.
This would give a percentage result rather than just a figure, then publish the results.
3) a press release to inform many offline fans of the idea and ask their opinion.
35 Posted 17/09/2010 at 02:07:52
This will only work if there are ADDITIONAL shares put onto the market to raise money.
And we all know that ain't gonna happen.
36 Posted 17/09/2010 at 02:15:12
37 Posted 17/09/2010 at 02:27:54
38 Posted 17/09/2010 at 08:11:00
Eric (#37) - I truely believe there are many fans out there in a position to buy many shares. And I think these would be the kind of people to get in touch with Michael direct rather than post on here.
39 Posted 17/09/2010 at 08:12:09
As I, and others have all pointed out, as soon as the club does this the existing shareholers percentage stake is reduced. This is an unkown (people guess) position of the clubs exiting shareholding with regards to being open to this.
Perhaps they are, I, like most remember the Chris Samuelson affair with 'Fortress Sports Fund' -
This proposal would have diluted the exiting shareholding percentages.
Reading up on it again I wonder whether it collapsed because of the two 'Tranche' Options or because the money wasnt real?
But if you could create addition blocks of shares (going against my original understanding) then the Fanshare scheme could take off. - Generating New MONEY
40 Posted 17/09/2010 at 08:45:33
Im not telling Michael how to run this brilliant site, I would be interested in some results/interests.
If we could drag our club out of the depths we are in imagine where we could go?
41 Posted 17/09/2010 at 08:51:53
Directors cannot issue newly created shares without shareholder authority to do so. Two provisions of the Companies Act 1985 are key here and will be familiar from any listed company AGM notice:
Section 80 stops the directors from issuing shares to anyone unless they are authorised to do so in the articles or by shareholders passing an ordinary resolution. This ban includes an agreement to issue shares and the grant of options that will result in a future issue of shares (although employee share schemes are exempt). Listed companies will ask shareholders to give them this authority each year at the AGM, but will have to respect certain limitations stipulated by institutional shareholders ? the rule has been that only 15 per cent of the authorised share capital can be issued ? and the authority has to be renewed at each AGM.
The Companies Act 2006 replaces this in October 2008 with new sections 549 and 551, and the restriction will no longer apply to a private company with only one class of share.
Section 89 obliges a company to offer new shares first of all to its existing shareholders in the same proportions they already hold shares. In other words, it upholds shareholders? right to be protected from dilution. If they are willing to pay the price asked for the new shares, they can have them. But this only applies where the shares are offered for cash ? if a company is issuing shares in exchange for shares in another company, say, or in payment for a non-cash asset, there is no requirement to offer the shares to existing shareholders first of all.
The section can be disapplied, along with section 80, either in the articles or by a shareholder vote, though only by a special resolution. These rules are repeated in the Companies Act 2006 (section 561 and following).
Again, institutional shareholders have their price: only shares equal to five per cent of the issued share capital can be issued without first offering them to shareholders.
Rights issues and bonus issues
A rights issue is a common way for a company to raise fresh capital: it issues new shares, offering them first to existing shareholders. Indeed, section 89, discussed above, obliges a company to treat any issue of shares for cash as a rights issue unless the shareholders have first agreed otherwise. (A rights issue for a listed company will often not follow the section 89 procedure because of various practical difficulties and the additional requirements of the Listing Rules.)
A listed company rights issue will usually offer shares at a discount to the current market price, sometimes a heavy discount if the shareholders? appetite for the shares needs to be stimulated. That discount means that there is an inherent value in the right to be offered the shares, and the shareholders in a listed company can trade those rights and realise that value if they do not want to take up the shares themselves.
Alternatives to a rights issue include an open offer where shareholders are invited to subscribe to a number of new shares based on their proportionate entitlements. This can be less complex than a rights issue but it does not give shareholders the opportunity to trade their rights to take up shares and so benefit from the discount. A vendor placing may also be used where one company is buying shares in another. Shares are allotted by the purchaser to the sellers of the target but the purchaser?s investment bank agrees to find investors or placees who will take those shares and so give the sellers cash. Institutional shareholders of the purchaser may insist on a clawback whereby those shares are first offered to them in proportion to their existing holdings.
A bonus issue involves no new money. Also called a capitalisation or scrip issue, it takes a sum from the company?s reserves (distributable profits that could be used to pay a dividend, or the share premium account) and capitalises it by using it to pay for the new shares. The issued share capital is increased without any new money being invested. The new shares are issued to existing shareholders pro rata to their shareholdings and so no dilution occurs.
42 Posted 17/09/2010 at 12:30:01
43 Posted 17/09/2010 at 15:45:35
Was it just another article of whatevers?
Will TW give this issue the extended home page coverage it deserves?
Michael, did you get in touch direct with the Arsenal Fan Share as editor of TW for any comments? I did not get a response.
Are you working on a mailshot for the subscriber list with a link to a questionnaire about the issue?
Did any more fans contact you off TW to ask about the concept?
Did any fans inform the lazy journos to get this idea in print?
Where do we go from here? I mean, someone's just got to do something!!
44 Posted 18/09/2010 at 01:56:40
45 Posted 18/09/2010 at 07:54:58
Any updates in relation to my suggestions at post #34?
46 Posted 18/09/2010 at 17:12:04
Or do you not really care as the upside is a defeat generates more website traffic as people go home early and pissed off and invariably come on here to see what fellow fans think. This means more click throught and money for you.
Or let's face it, is Toffeeweb really another disguise of Bill Kenright and the board, invented after Linden was interviewed by Peter Johnson years ago.
I know "let's put up a fan's website that is not to do with Everton that the fans will lap up as they can say what the hell they like. And we can respond in the full fury of unadulterated language without harming the EFC brand". Or thinking about it, are you Peter Johnson? Or a relation of the Greggs?
Do something about it man.
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