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The deadly double act

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I won't be looking at the league table this week, apparently it doesn't lie. Chris Perry was accused of being insane when he dared to criticize the mighty Moyes on another post. Actually insane might be better applied to those who, pre-season, talked not only of Champions League qualification but of winning the league. Some people even bet on it.

We have been told that David Moyes has assembled the best squad for years. That might well be true... but when one looks at the league table, one must conclude that something else is wrong. In my view, the heart of what is wrong at the club is the Moyes ? Kenwright double act.

David Moyes signed a vastly inflated contract, way over what his achievements warranted. His brief seems to have been, keep us in the Premier League, look happy at our lack of investment, and keep your mouth shut. Bill Kenwright continues to live the dream on the cheap. His loyalty to his manager is admired and many (not so many on this website) are thankful that he has stopped us from being Leeds or Portsmouth. Meanwhile many Evertonians are grateful to both of them.

I don't like the term 'apologist' but surely no-one can defend that shambles today. In my opinion, one cannot attack Kenwright and defend Moyes at the same time. Kenwright is an incompetent chairman and Moyes is a vastly overpaid and overrated coach. He is dour, unimaginative and unsophisticated.

Mutual admiration between a coach and chairman is unhealthy and unhelpful. This double act can take the club no further.
Andy Crooks, Belfast     Posted 18/09/2010 at 17:39:36

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Charles King
1   Posted 18/09/2010 at 18:17:53

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Andy.

Not only no further but we're going backwards, actually we've been slipping into reverse since we came 4th.
Eugene Ruane
2   Posted 18/09/2010 at 18:23:23

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Agree.
John McLoughlin
3   Posted 18/09/2010 at 18:25:37

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Joke of achairman and an untouchable manager make for a bad combination. Moyes postion would be under threat at any other club luckily for him we have no ambition so he's safe. Expect a heroic 2nd half of season turn around just missing out on Europe. then when our best players want out we can call them greedy and unloyal. No excuses this season for Moyes its time he started earning his money but as a tactically inept coward i doubt he will
Martyn Lewis
4   Posted 18/09/2010 at 18:27:26

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Spot on Andy! How important now is the Brentford game Tuesday for Moyes. Knocked out? Will Moyes walk? I sure as hell know Bill wont sack him!
Martyn Lewis
5   Posted 18/09/2010 at 18:27:26

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Spot on Andy! How important now is the Brentford game Tuesday for Moyes. Knocked out? Will Moyes walk? I sure as hell know Bill wont sack him!
Robert Daniels
6   Posted 18/09/2010 at 18:19:59

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Andy, Spot on.

Kenwright, you've fucked this club up, you will be remembered as the man who destroyed an institution. >You have turned us into a club that the media, and almost every fucking fan from other clubs, perceive as a small club. The demise of our club under your fucking guidance is a disgrace.

We should be challenging for our tenth title, not fighting relegation. You have divided the fan base, you have surrounded yourself with yes men, you fucked up the Kings Dock, cos you're a fuckin liar. You tried to sell us all out by moving us to Kirkby.

YOU sold Rooney.

Blue Bill, FUCK OFF NOW, FOR THE SAKE OF OUR CLUB!!!
Brian Waring
7   Posted 18/09/2010 at 18:35:31

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Martyn, we will beat Brentford, and then we will have all the apologists back on here, telling us how he is the Moyesiah again. Funny how they seem to be missing tonight... wonder why?
Ryan Holroyd
8   Posted 18/09/2010 at 18:33:00

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I agree with everything you say. I'd like to see a change of manager but we will do nothing as long as Kenwright is chairman. To think the hated Peter Johnson was the last chairman who we won a trophy under. Fuck you, Kenwright. Hate the man.
Robert Daniels
9   Posted 18/09/2010 at 18:38:18

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Brian, dead right, mate.

Moyes and Kenwright just do enough to win the duck, all the time!
Colin Malone
10   Posted 18/09/2010 at 18:39:48

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We could all see the formation was wrong, except Moyes.

Bring in Martin O'Neill while he's still available.
Andrew McGreavy
11   Posted 18/09/2010 at 18:42:59

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I think Moyes needs to go, not because of the start to the season; it was predictable, rubbish sides lined up in pre-season as canon fodder, then ride the crest of the wave into the rocks in the proper league.

I would love Martin Jol in charge, good coach and tactician, maybe he will teach our side that we need to score more goals than the opposition to win, rather than "It's 0-0 at the start, we've got a point here, boys ? let's keep hold of it."

Moyes lacks the killer instinct; when we have the chance to really press home advantages in certain games and really crush the opposition 4 or 5 nil when we are 2-0 up.

Imagine a team that is short of strikers letting their fittest striker go out on loan, God help the Moyesiah.
Chris Sillett
12   Posted 18/09/2010 at 18:42:36

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I'm going to say it and I don't care what people say ? I would love it if Moyes left the club, love it.

Today's tactics and substitutions were on a par with the worst days of the Walter Smith regime. Again, only one striker up front at home to average opposition, and a striker who looks totally out of his depth at this level, but you can't blame Beckford for not producing ? he has come from two divisions below the Premier League for Christ's sake!

So we are being out-played, out-thought and out-fought against a piss poor Newcastle team and everyone is crying out for changes at half-time. And what does the 'Moyesiah' produce? Take off your striker and replace with a different one; take off your right back and replace with a different one ? never mind the fact we are playing with a centre back in midfield and Leon Osman continues his wretched performances on the wing. Carry on the 4-5-1 approach and dont even think about maybe playing two strikers when you are losing at home...

It's baffling.. and if I woke up to reports tomorrow morning of Moyes being sacked or resigning ? I would bloody love it.

Michael Evans
13   Posted 18/09/2010 at 18:57:52

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Andy ? totally agree

Well done for expressing what I think a lot of us are feeling at the moment.

If I had tried to do that it just would have degenerated into an expletive filled rant!

Carl Moulton
14   Posted 18/09/2010 at 19:01:33

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Charles, we have a far better side than the one than come fourth. The league is stronger. Our competion then was bolton and a poor Liverpool.
Eric Myles
15   Posted 18/09/2010 at 19:03:21

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"Bring in Martin O'Neill while he's still available."

So we can play the Villa way that we've despised for years.
Michael Kenrick
16   Posted 18/09/2010 at 19:02:29

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I usually restrain from going that far, Chris, but today's display was so totally abject... Moyes's perennial failings so blatantly exposed... the man's inherent negativity and bullheaded obstinacy so comprehensively responsible for another painful episode in the demise of our once great club... I think I'm, beginning to think just like you.
Richard Reeves
17   Posted 18/09/2010 at 18:54:42

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Some football pundit last year said that Moyes had taken us as far as he could ? that is looking concrete now. A new manager is needed but ffs not O'Neill unless you want the same sort of shit.

I completely agree with Andrew McGreavy ? Martin Jol would be a good replacement.

Ian McDowell
18   Posted 18/09/2010 at 19:09:53

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I have had enough that is the 4th time for fucks sake we have needed a goal and finished the match with 1 striker on the pitch, Blackburn, Wolves, Villa and now this.

Something has got to change the Yak looks so overweight and I dont know how this has been allowed straight after pre-season.

they say insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results and how many times have we seen osman and hibbert on the right together, Gueye and Vaughan would atleast be something different.

I am totally fed up.
Richard Dodd
19   Posted 18/09/2010 at 19:10:50

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So we lose a rare game at home and are prepared to discount all Davey has done to establish us as a sound and respected club.He and Blue Bill didn`t engineer today`s defeat-good players just failed to put in a shift.It happenned with Man Unt last Sat and in midweek-so we`re not exactly unique.
Davey has served us well and loyally for 8 years and we`ve hardly had a blip.With BB`s faith in a great manager,we`ll get over this start to claim a top ten slot....at least!
Chris Sillett
20   Posted 18/09/2010 at 19:13:57

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Whether he would leave Fulham after only a couple of months im not sure but my number one choice would be Mark Hughes. He is vastly under rated in my opinion. If not Hughes then either Martin Jol or Martin O'Niell. Richard Reeves you say O'Niell would produce the same sort of shit but hasn't he actually won trophies in his managerial career?
Oiver Molloy
21   Posted 18/09/2010 at 19:06:58

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Very disappointing result and no doubt Moyes will say we were unlucky.I'm a Moyes fan and i am grateful to him for raising my and 1000,s of evertonians expectations,but today the team got what it deserved-no points.
It's Moyes who picks the side and it's him who has to shoulder his actions.
I don't understand some of the baffling decisions he makes regarding players. Why on earth has he let Vaughan go out on loan when we have no strikers fit.
Whats the story with playing players out of position all the time.
I sense something is not right in the dressing room.Pinnears contract wrangle could perhaps have something to do with it,i don't know,I'm guessing,any excuse i can dream up for this terrible start.
The confidence is low,and the league cup game is now huge.
Daniel Johnson
22   Posted 18/09/2010 at 19:08:25

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Moyes has had 10 years now and look where we stand.
Some people seem fearful of a new manager saying "if not Moyes then who"?
But remember Moyes in terms of being a premiership manager was a nobody when he took over but to some now hes the untouchable Messiah.
Moyes deserves praise and has received many accolades himself which have somewhat maybe exaggerated how good he is. From afar his work seems outstanding but if you follow Everton daily as we all do we all know it's never been plain sailing under Moyes. Strops, sulks, the contract saga, crisis team meetings yo-yo seasons.
Your only as good as your last game and our last 5 have been fucking shocking.
So why not take chance on something different this website is getting a s erious case of deja-vu as its the same shite we discuss all the time. A lot of mangers would love to work with this squad.
The squad has outgrown/outclassed him. His style of management may suit certain workman like players but in a squad with Arteta, Pienaar, Fellaini, Heitinga etc he doesn't know how to use or utilise such players. He would be happier with players more on his level e.g. Neville, Hibbert and Osman hard honest grafting players.
Tactically we need a new dimension a brave new dawn. We battered Villa and Newcastle for 45 mins after going a goal down but why not start matches like this?
David well done I appreciate your efforts, but to move forward you as a manger must step back.
Eric Myles
23   Posted 18/09/2010 at 19:30:15

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"they say insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results and how many times have we seen osman and hibbert on the right together, Gueye and Vaughan would atleast be something different"
So Ian #18, which of Gueye or Vaughan (who is playing for Crystal Palace at the moment incedentally) would you have as right back?
Andrew Ellams
24   Posted 18/09/2010 at 19:35:45

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Richard Dodd, seriously who the hell are you? Do you just come out with that shite to wind everybody up?
Declan Brown
25   Posted 18/09/2010 at 19:40:16

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I defended the man earlier today.

I'm just as frustrated as you guys today.

I'll save my Moyes out comments until after we do our inevitable bi-annual roll over in the Merseyside Derby in a few weeks time.
Sean Patton
26   Posted 18/09/2010 at 19:43:02

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The constant selection of Osman is like the scene in Blackadder goes Fourth, when Blackadder says are we going over the top into no mans land again sir. General Melchett says yes how did you know and he replies because it is the exact same thing we have done the last fourteen times.

Now here is the killer line and an insight into Moyes mind. The General retorts ah but dont you see doing the same thing we have done the last fourteen times, is the last thing the opposition will expect us to do.

Swap the trenches of the Great War for Finch Farm on a Monday and Round saying to Moyes, Gaffer do you think we might possibly play somebody other than Osman on the right hand side?

Moyes is not a stupid man but the continued baffling selction of his favourites regardless of their current form is now beyond a joke.
James Stewart
27   Posted 18/09/2010 at 20:02:53

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Nice post. Could not agree more! O'Neill is the best man for the job.

Likes pacey players and uses two wingers! I can't remember the last time I saw Moyes sign a genuine winger. O wait yes I can. Shandy!
Eric Myles
28   Posted 18/09/2010 at 20:07:03

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^and look what happened last time Shandy played for us!!!!
Colin Malone
29   Posted 18/09/2010 at 20:08:23

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The form book says O'Neill is a better manager than Moyes. His teams play with passion, just look at the teams he has left, where are they now?
Guy Hastings
30   Posted 18/09/2010 at 20:17:01

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James 27 - do you really think MO'N would touch Goodison Park with the complete lack of fiscal clout available to Moyes, let alone anyone else? The only saving grace regarding our empty coffers is that the long-ball troll MO'N won't come near the place.

As for today, I'd like to know where Arteta spent the afternoon; why Hibbert was replaced by an inexperienced defender whose much vaunted abilty to charge forward was completely negated (by instruction from the bench?); and why Osman is still allowed to turn out every week at the expense of Bily who, God knows, needs a decent run of games???

Relying on Cahill each week to ruffle the opposition's feathers and hope to play the last minute Get Out of Jail card is simply not good enough. And does Heitinga have a '70 minutes only' clause in his contract?

Chris Perry
31   Posted 18/09/2010 at 20:27:56

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Amazing!!

Declan Brown "That speaks volumes in my book. I couldn't even think of any instant names to replace him with."

Make your mind up man! Have you taken your scitzo drugs yet!
Steve Malone
32   Posted 18/09/2010 at 20:26:00

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Guys, who in their right mind of any managerial worth would want to come to this club.... to have the support of a Chairman who lies till he's literally blue in the face, a guy with no financial clout who claims to be looking 24/7 for that wonder buyer? Moyes should have gone at least two seasons ago, Kenwright should have gone a lot sooner than that... New managers want to be assured of having money, money, money......
Al Reddish
33   Posted 18/09/2010 at 20:30:27

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Sorry but O'Neill is an overrated prick who loves his own hype. If he was that good, how come he pissed absolute millions up the wall on shit like Sidwell, Warnock, Reo-Cokehead etc, and then decide not to play most of them. He also finished behind Everton for the majority of his reign there. As for playing with two pacey wingers, most of the play was by-passed for them as it was a big lump up-field to a big lump on it (Heskey). The wingers had to be fast to catch up with the ball. An absolute twat, I tell thee.
Martyn Lewis
34   Posted 18/09/2010 at 18:27:26

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Spot on Andy! How important now is the Brentford game Tuesday for Moyes. Knocked out? Will Moyes walk? I sure as hell know Bill wont sack him!
Andy Roberts
35   Posted 18/09/2010 at 20:28:26

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Having finally calmed down after watching that garbage some things are as plain as the nose on your face:

1. Heitinga is another Tommy Grav, all fists and waves, but definitely not a tough ball-winning defensive midfield player. I didn't see him tackle anyone today.

2. Fellaini was touted by our manager before his injury last season as the best midfielder in his position in the country... so why isn't he being played in that position.?He is wasted playing behind the striker.

3. If Arteta drops any deeper, he may as well play instead of Howard.

4. We have had a midfield 5 who would all consider themselves central midfield players. No width, for god's sake ? give Gueye a chance, or try Coleman wide right.

5. It wouldn't matter if we played Dixie up front at the moment, the service is abysmal, slow and oh so predictable.

Time for the manager to earn his salary and show some inventive team selection, put players in their proper positions, and realise that some players just ain't good enough.

Peter Laing
36   Posted 18/09/2010 at 20:43:17

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Same old shite from you Richard Dodd, the current Everton side can have enough possession, pass till the cows come home, yet the fundamental flaws exist a) we cant defend and always concede b) are completely toothless in front of goal. Every opposition manager is onto this fact now, Chris Hughton must have thought to himself, let them have the ball, their defence is like a sieve and their attack couldnt hit a barn door.
Mike Allison
37   Posted 18/09/2010 at 20:59:45

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"Chris Perry was accused of being insane when he dared to criticize the mighty Moyes on another post"

It wasn't that he 'dared to criticize' Moyes, almost all of us have done that at some point or another, it was the scope, depth and style of his criticisms that drew the reaction.
Ian Smitham
38   Posted 18/09/2010 at 20:50:40

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Not sure if this is on topic or not. Apologies.

On here the usual suspects will be getting a slaughtering.

Hibbo- Played well today and the cross that Jags did not score with was superb. The player Giggs hacked down last week. I think Ossie was kept on to cover for SC being AWOL today.

Distin- Aside from fella wasMOM. Well done.

Distribution from the back is awfull. Stubbs perfected the 60 yard cross field ball to no one and even if they were there-its not easy to control-even for a top player, so now Jags and Distin try. And you all slaughtered Joey. Are they being coached on this skill (skill the 60 yarder)??

Taliking of long balls - why cant the goalie kick the ball where he wants it to go?

Up front is comedy except it is so sad.

Fella is a great player and him and Jack need to be CM ( i know JR is injured)

But my point is - TH LO PN get it every week. (so does TC)

Why oh why are JH and MA imune from comment. They are bone idle and a disgrace. JH bottles out of most 50 50s i assume no one saw him give up for United 1st last week. I assume no one saw him "tackle Saha" for Wolves goal, but pull out of the big tackle on the Wolves guy. Today he was awfull and gets away with it. At least Moyes saw it. If he is sulking about not being CB, reality, against the Crouch types he will be lost.

MA- the best little Spaniard-have a laugh. Against non physical none top teams he is great. Assuming you ignore free kicks and corners-why does he take them? See Bartons corners today. (BTW- How many 50 50s did he win against Barton?)

Call PIP, and i dont think he is good enough, but last week wher was MA charging around hyping the players up-and dont quote the miss hit deflceted shot- screeching imploring more off his team. Where was he today- Our players are in Blue.

Sorry to rant, but i get a bit fed up of others continuously having a go at the easy targets while the likes of PJ MA JH seem imune

Ryan Holroyd
39   Posted 18/09/2010 at 20:59:02

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I felt really sorry for Beckford. I personally don't rememeber one chance we've created for him and yet he gets hooked off when he clearly needs help up front. Why was he taken off to be replaced by Yak. Why couldn't we play 2 forwards at home? I'm sick of Moyes and Everton. Just fuck off. One trophy is all we've won in all my time watching Everton. One fucking trophy. Moyes will never win anything as a manager. Thanks for stabalising us but it is TIME TO GO. Someone said to me today that 'we should be happy to exist and we've never been in a relegation battle under Moyes'. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Where is the pride in our Team? Club? JUST FUCK OFF KENWRIGHT AND MOYES.
Trevor Lynes
40   Posted 18/09/2010 at 21:00:36

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O'Neil is not the man as he quit Villa because of lack of investment...money to buy decent players....BK has not given any money for players to DM and Davey is loyal because he has the safest job in the premier by toeing the line and not expecting money !!
If that is not obvious to everyone yet then the blue tinted glasses must be navy blue....Our club is happy to obtain 40 points a season and so long as the fans do not demand better BK will spend nothing !!
Fellaini was a desperation, last minute buy after funds for Arshevin and Moutinho purchases were not provided and the fans were becoming very restless.
A few seasons ago we had a bench which was likened to a creche due to lack of foresight and proper planning.
Why do we go on pre-season trips to Oz and the USA when we should be playing good opposition in europe.
We ALWAYS start slowly and even though we have our best squad (bought on the cheap or home grown) for years it is apparant that every other club has improved....I have not seen any really poor teams like Pompey and Sunderland of the past so far this season.
I can see a dogfight looming if something is not done to correct our slump and that means strengthening in January by SPENDING some money.
I do not accept that we are as broke as people seem to believe...spend some of the money wasted on trips abroad for all and sundry on players and stop the stupidity of letting Gosling go for free....otherwise we will struggle to maintain our supposed progress.
Too many of our fans see our players as a match for all the top teams in the league....but the table does not lie and we have drawn with and been beaten by teams we should expect to beat if we are able to produce any semblance of success this season.
Eric Myles
41   Posted 18/09/2010 at 21:14:10

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Ryan, Barry Horne was full of praise for Beckford first half and when he was replaced by Yakubu said that if he'd received the balls Yak did in the second half would have been in his best positions.
Charles King
42   Posted 18/09/2010 at 21:14:32

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Is Ian Holloway the answer?

Seamus will play!!!
Ian McDowell
43   Posted 18/09/2010 at 21:26:02

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Eric Myles post 23 I meant Gueye or Vaughan on the right. That at least would provide a bit of pace, yes Vaughan isn't with us now but thats down to Moyes.
Ian McDowell
44   Posted 18/09/2010 at 21:35:26

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Also, suggesting Gueye and Vaughan on the right is no worse than your best Def Mid playing up front, one of your best CB DM, and 2 of your worst wide players out wide ? and I am not paid £60k a week for the privilege.
Paul Toole
45   Posted 18/09/2010 at 21:35:05

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I got told a few weeks ago Moyes asked to join Villa, but Kenwright blocked the move. The source also indicated that Moyes said, if there's no money in January, he will walk and Everton have already put Dave Jones on alert.
Declan Brown
46   Posted 18/09/2010 at 21:33:32

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Chris Perry.

In all honesty i can't think of anyone i would have managing us at the minute who would want to come to us. Martin Jol, Martin O'Neill, we've no chance there.

I'm angry today, i like Moyes as a man, but i'm still angry after today's match, cometh the Merseyside Derby surrender that anger will be much much worse.

If Moyes goes then my attitude will be thanks Davey, good luck. To surrender them bas*ards in the way we do under Moyes, alone, warrants the sack in my book, it's the first two games the players should be absolute in their willingness to die for the cause / shirt.

I've written loads of comments on here about how much i hate the way we surrender in the Merseyside Derby's to that lot with such ease and that really grates on me more than any fixture during the season.

As i said i'm holding fire for a few weeks until the Merseyside Derby, because that is a good game to judge Moyes' tactics and how much the players really want to do it for us.

We get hammered in the Derby i'll be doing an article (like i've done in previous seasons) calling for his head.
Ste Traverse
47   Posted 18/09/2010 at 21:33:30

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That was an embarrassment today. Fair play to the Geordies,they were full value for the win.

Even if we get mullered by Brentford,Billy Bullshit not sack his lap dog Moyes. Do anyone believe he will get rid and risk acquiring a manager that will put his foot down and DEMAND transfer funds? I don't.

In any case it should be Kenwrong first out the door. And he can take his yes men in the boardroon and that excuse for a CEO with him.
Rob Hollis
48   Posted 18/09/2010 at 22:14:34

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Just looked at the table and we are on two points with Arsenal on eleven.

If they don't play for the rest of the season we might just catch them.
Gerard Carey
49   Posted 18/09/2010 at 22:22:51

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The table dosent lie, 2 points from 15, horrible feeling.
Alan Kirwin
50   Posted 18/09/2010 at 22:39:57

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I see, so MON is the right man for Everton is he? A man who has spent far more than Moyes since he joined Villa and performed worse, and who left Villa due to lack of funds. MON is an overrated one-trick pony.

And the idea that we have been in reverse ever since we finished 4th is amusing. We scraped over the line for 4th for the simple reason that mediocrity reigned below the top 3. We hung on by our finger nails, had a negative goal difference and lost 7-0 at Arsenal. We have matched or exceeded our 4th place points tally on 3 occasions since. So, however bad we are right now, and we are very very bad, let's try & keep this serious.

Moyes still makes mistakes. Too many, it is becoming increasingly clear. It often seems that when things go really well it is almost in spite of him, rather than down to him.
Ian Smitham
51   Posted 18/09/2010 at 23:18:55

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You will see from above that i am getting worry beads about JH

Just seen the NUFC goal on MOTD,
how would comments be if Leon Tony Phil Billy Distin Yobo Pistone or Unsworth had marked or tackled the second best player on the pitch so well and tightly? (Barton was the best for those that have any eye for football)

Course it was JH so it does not matter.
Andy Crooks
52   Posted 18/09/2010 at 23:55:18

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Alan Kirwin, I agree that Martin O'Neill is not the man for Everton. I many ways he is similar to David Moyes; both are men of integrity and principle and both are excellent at revitalising failing clubs. I feel, however, that both lack what it takes for the very highest level. O'Neill has failed with money to spend and , to be fair, Moyes has not been tested in that way.


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