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It's Moyes's Fault

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There are a lot of good articles on here and they all make good points. However, when all is said and done I think that the current malaise is only down to the manager.

He has had money to spend and has fashioned a squad with some good players admittedly but, one way or another, he has neglected to provide us with reliable forwards. Let's face it, unless you work at the club, none of us knows the financial situation at the club but we can presume that Everton pay reasonable salaries and Moyes has had money to spend.

Our current dire league position is mainly/exclusively due to our inability to score goals. Three one-nil defeats surely says that we struggle to score.

So, let's examine the problem. Who are the forwards that are supposed to score the goals?

  • Saha, always injured, never reliable and a dismal current streak.
  • Vaughan, permanently injured over the last 6 years. Potentially, our best prospect but it is never going to happen.
  • Yakubu; perhaps it should now be "Feed the Yak and he'll never score." He didn't do the worst miss at the World Cup by being good.
  • Anichebe, may yet be a good midfield player but not good enough up front.
  • Beckford, makes Marcus Bent look like Dixie Dean. Is he the worst forward we have ever had in 132 years? Oh and 2 youngsters who will probably never make it, Pinto and Gueye.
What a mess. And the worst of it is that we now have to continue with this lot until the next transfer window. And hope that we can bring someone in who can score enough goals to keep us up.

Those that still mention the CL are, in my view, insane. This is a relegation fight make no mistake. So , what to do? We have no choice but to play Cahill up front or maybe Ross Barkley, who was on the bench yesterday, may rescue us.

I would keep Moyes until the end of the season and then get rid. I am bored with him and he deserves to go after the fiasco that this season is turning into. His successor? I have seen many names but we like over-performing Scots. My vote would go to Owen Coyle, he has not done a lot wrong so far.
Jonathan Tasker, Cambridge     Posted 19/09/2010 at 19:59:53

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Rob Prince
1   Posted 19/09/2010 at 22:37:11

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A tad harsh on Beckford maybe? Admittedly he looks well out of his league, literally. Saha is a confidence player and needs goals before he nets them. Unfortunately he hasn´t netted for months so that's that.

I´m really disappointed about Vaughan. I really had high hoped for him yet the first game he plays for Palace he scores a hat-trick? Hmmm. Cahill upfront is the only thing that springs to mind... at least he knows where the goal is.

There´s no way Moyes is getting the sack anytime soon nor is he going to walk away from the job, he's far too stubborn so we are stuck with him. Might as well bite the bullet.

Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
2   Posted 19/09/2010 at 22:35:04

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We have indeed had a lot of posts and article in the last day or so... and tomorrow will see the usual influx of Monday Morning Apologists, shocked by the tumult, telling us all "it's only five games", "It's too early to judge" "Give Moyes another full season", "The table means nothing for the first 10 games..." etc etc. ? Oh and of course saddest of all "IMWT ? In Moyes We Trust".

But I think one of the important things to note is that a lot of people are saying basically the same kind of things... and I don't think everyone can possibly be wrong. The ones who have spoken of the mood inside Goodison toward the end of the game underline how the rest of us out in InterWebLand reacted and expressed ourselves on here after the final whistle.

One question... who the hell is "Pinto"?

Do you perhaps refer to one João Silva? Who can't even get a full game in the reserves?
Gareth Morgan
3   Posted 19/09/2010 at 22:54:36

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Please tell me when has Beckford has had an opportunity to show his worth? when has he had a decent ball through on goal or a decent cross to his head? To say he's shitter than Marcus Bent after starting only a few games and feeding off shite service in a terrible system is reactionary bollocks. I feel sorry for the guy.
John Daley
4   Posted 19/09/2010 at 23:00:00

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To suggest Beckford is the worst forward we've had in 132 years is probably a bit harsh and premature just yet. I think Brett Angel, Mo Johnson, John Spencer and Ibrahima Bakayoko might have something to say about that!

To be fair to the guy he's been hung out to dry by Moyes. He came out and claimed it was his intention to gradually ease Beckford into life in the Premier League and didn't expect him to be "the main man" straight away, but then proceeds to start him up front, on his own, in the first home game of the season. Starved of service and with no support whatsoever he's hauled off for Saha. Cue an action replay this weekend, with the guy dragged off at half-time to be replaced by Yakubu.

Getting beat 0-1 at home, desperate for a goal and you bring your new forward off after 45 minutes. What is that superb bit of man-management going to do for his confidence? It's only going to lead to him doubting himself and wondering if he's incapable of making the step up. Ok, he's been anonymous and hasn't done anything of note up to now, but then he hasn't exactly been provided with the platform to succeed has he?

Seamus Murphy
5   Posted 19/09/2010 at 23:11:34

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I too blame Moyes for our current situation, but not for any reason you point out in this article.
In fact I think your post is full of dramatic overstatements and sillyness!
Beckford the worst striker in 132 years?? Bit dramatic!
We have no choice but to play Barkley up front? WTF!!?
We are in a relegation dogfight?? Steady on lad.
And to top it - Owen Coyle will be the new saviour!! Ha ha!

Anyway, as I said I said, I too blame Moyes though. If the team don't perform then ultimately the manager is responsible. A good manager is one that gets the best from his team. And if he is not getting the best from them then he must identify the problem and act swify to rectify it.
From my perspective there are a few things I don't understand. Why can the manager not see the liability that is Distin? I have noticed distin at fault fir a lot of goals going back as far as Wolfsburg in pre season...so why can't Moyes see this? Why can't he at least try Heitinga with jags?
Why fo we always have to have 5 defenders on the field?
Why can we never have two strikers on the field? Even when chasing a goal deficit?
Why can Moyes not see so many moves break down with Osmans bad control?
Why does he not give Coleman a go? I'm not expecting a messiah like some on here but at home to wolves or Newcastle surely he could be given a start? I accept that he may not be as solid defensively as Hibbert but he may give us something going forward, and it's not like were keeping clean sheets with the current back four anyway!
And finally, if playing such negative formations is nit working, how long do we have to bloody persist with them! If playing this way was getting results then fair enough. But it's not.
So fucking change something Moyes!
Sam Hoare
6   Posted 19/09/2010 at 23:29:56

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'Beckford, makes Marcus Bent look like Dixie Dean. Is he the worst forward we have ever had in 132 years?'

Ridiculous thing to say after his first ever few games in the premiership.
Dermot Ryan
7   Posted 19/09/2010 at 23:51:14

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Not only across the Evertonian sites but also from pundits who aren't even paying that much attention to Everton, it is apparent that Moyes' tactics have been overly cautious and negative and that we are in the relegation zone and out of top 4 contention as a result.

I think it is really unfortunate our next game is away (it invites Moyes to err on the side of caution), but Moyes now needs to show that he is not in an echo chamber and that he and his coaching team have not fallen for group think (Round's inadvertently comic aping of Moyes gestures after the Man Utd game was worrying in this regard). We are not really leaking goals. We are not scoring them. Compare our goal difference to the other struggling teams around us. He needs to focus on attack not defense.

Sadly, I'm not holding my breath. I expect the following: Osman and Neville to play; Heitinga to play as our defensive midfielder; Distin to get his game; Fellaini to be stuck up as an attacking midfielder and a lone striker. Players who are on the out: Beckford and Bily (and I think both have potential).
Dennis Stevens
8   Posted 20/09/2010 at 00:04:54

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I think the original piece would have been much improved by, being edited somewhat - preferably removing everything after the first two sentences!
Tommy Meehan
9   Posted 20/09/2010 at 00:31:57

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"Oh and 2 youngsters who will probably never make it, Pinto and Gueye."

Maybe not but at least one of them has an alternative career as a compact 70s automobile to fall back on
Dick Fearon
10   Posted 20/09/2010 at 00:16:39

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It gives me no pleasure to say that Moyes has taken us as far as he can and that is no more than mid table mediocrity.
Pan to the RS 2-0 down to Manure and looking to suffer an even bigger hiding. They bring on another striker not to assist Torres not to replace him.
The effecvt of that move was immediate and positive with the RS taking the game up to Manure and scoring two and almost pinching.the game.
In the same situation Moyes would have replaced our lone striker with another lone striker then he would replace a defender for another defender and we would be back to square one. When that dosen't work he will replace a midfielder for another midfielder.
Not once would it cross his mind to break with his defensive mind set by playing two up front.
It is all so bloody boring and predictable.
I also wonder what useful purpose is served by having Steve Round in the dug out.
He sits there wearing a headset, poker faced, unemotional not moving his lips and generally gives the appearance of being totally unconcerned.
It irks me to say that I would rather have Sammy Lee who at least shows a bit of enthusiasm.
Dick Fearon
11   Posted 20/09/2010 at 00:43:48

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Re my earlier, In the first para it should have read that second stri8ker was to assist Torres.
Conor Waters
12   Posted 20/09/2010 at 00:22:21

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Whoa there horsey. Settle down. I cannot stand this kind of knee jerk garbage. Your assessment of Beckford is shocking. I have watched every minute the guy has been on the pitch and he has barely had a sniff. In fact it almost seems as if some of the players don't rate the guy and aren't very keen on passing the ball to him. He made a number of decent runs in the first half on saturday that went unnoticed by our midfield. Heaping that sort of comment on him is just as bad for his confidence as Moyes hauling him off at halftime.

Yes this is another shocker start to a season, extremely disappointing considering there were no excuses available this time. But lets be honest, the Newcastle match was the only truly bad performance of the lot so far. We lost at Blackburn because of a rare blunder by Howard, were sloppy against Wolves, pummelled Villa with no reward and showed some great attitude in the dying minutes of the Utd game. Prove me wrong. We deserved to get nothing from Newcastle, but its hardly been a run of bad performances.

And Michael don't call me a Moyes Apologist, I would actually love to see Martin O'Neill in charge - there is a manager who can get the best out of a player. But I still think this being blown out of proportion - frustrating and disappointing at best. What pisses me off most is that it was some of our best players that underperformed on saturday, and that is a concern.
Liu Weixian
13   Posted 20/09/2010 at 03:51:36

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I don?t think we will reach Europe this season. We are now in the relegation zone. We are playing like shite. The balance of the team is all wrong. Players are played out of their natural positions. Championship standard players are in the starting lineup while the technically better ones are on the bench. Our manager has absolutely no tactical acumen: He plays only 4-5-1 and waits until the 70th minute to bring on a defender for a defender, a midfielder for a midfielder, or a striker for a striker. He may yet replace the goalkeeper with a goalkeeper!

I?ll be happy if we don?t get relegated come the end of the season. Give me 17th ?I?d take it!
Lee Kidd
14   Posted 20/09/2010 at 03:49:59

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May as well mention that the OP is obviously of the age to remember the skills of another Portuguese forward named Joao Pinto, an international striker who he is obviously confusing for our own makeweight striker Joao Silva. ;)
Shaun Brennan
15   Posted 20/09/2010 at 08:01:13

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Answer this: how many of you have been truly embarrased by Everton on the pitch? How many times has this happened under Moyes?

Now I don't want to get rid, but I have been really pissed off with the guy for the last year. He seems a bit arrogant and will never hold his hands out. Persisitng with the same tactics that don't work. 1 striker, throw the ball to Fellanis head in the box etc etc.

If it doesn't work first time and the second time, change the system for something new. Maybe Moyes is the system and it is him who needs changing, because he is unwilling to do anything about in on the field...
Mike Green
16   Posted 20/09/2010 at 07:50:40

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The frustrating part of it all is all close season myself and many on here were saying "we need a striker and a right midfielder, we need a striker and a right midfielder, we need a striker and a right midfielder..." and whats come to bite us on the arse?

Not being able to score goals and the imbalance of our midfield.

OK - we know Moyes has no money (cue attacks on BK) but Moyes in my mind should've sold Vaughan, Anichebe, Yak, Saha and possibly Pienaar and Jags to fund it.

I'd generally be classified as a "Moyes Apologist" by our glorious editor - not sure what the label is for the opposite... "Ignoramous"? "Bitter Blue"?, "Axe-Grinder"? - but even its starting to test my patience now, the tactics against Newcastle were a disgrace and for me were "Strike 1 David Moyes".

Sort it out. Please.
Chris Perry
17   Posted 20/09/2010 at 08:15:44

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Totally agree with your comment abour Beckford. Actually Marcus Bent played the lone striker role well, so if anything a bit harsh on Marcus Bent. I do think Brett Angel was better than Beckford.

The only person to blame is Moyes, he picks the team, he buys the players, he is responsible.

John Nelson
18   Posted 20/09/2010 at 08:31:49

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I usually defend Moyes but this time it's ALL his fault. His team selections and decision making have baffled me well and truly. Below are my questions on team selection:

- Why continue to play with Distin who, let's face it, is an utter liability, instead of an accomplished football minded international World Cup finalist centre half in Johnny Heitinga? Once Jags and Heitinga get an understanding, we'll be sound defensively again.
- Why play Fellaini in attacking mid, when it proved 2 years ago he is wasted there, and proved last year that he is border line WORLD CLASS when playing in his NATURAL position in defensive mid?
- Why play Arteta so deep, when he is our number one playmaker and is all round attacking minded?
- And the best one for me is why play Osman right mid when it has been evident for 4 YEARS NOW that he is utterly useless and pathetic when played there?

With regards decision making:
- Why replace like for like players when trying to change the game when they have done nothing wrong (Beckford got no service on Saturday, Hibbert was sound again)?
- Why not replace that wimp Osman with Coleman and be exciting for a change?
- Why not play with an actual attacking mid instead of wasting an excellent defensive mid there?

Saturday has got to be the worst game I have seen in 2 years. Moyes has got it oh so wrong so far this season, and has no-one else to blame for this.

As much as I never thought I'd say it, if this continues until Christmas, he should be shown the door.

Unacceptable.
Dave Lynch
19   Posted 20/09/2010 at 09:10:50

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Beckford, Yak, Saha et al are not the problem. They all have a proven track record in scoring especially the Yak. It's the way we play that's at fault.
No pace, no width, no creativity, the list is endless and it's all down to the manager, other teams have got onto the way we set up and play, it's predictable and easy to defend against and it won't get any better. Using the strikers as fall guys is displaying a lack of knowledge, we don't create chances it's as simple as that.
As for Silva? I pity the lad for coming here, he will not get a sniff of first team football and have any creativity coached out of him before being flogged on. I and many others on this site have for years been unhappy with the way we play the game and it appears others are starting to see the light.
Michael McIvor
20   Posted 20/09/2010 at 08:58:59

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I flew in to Liverpool for the weekend full of excitment and optimism for the forthcoming match. Newcastle are a good team but with some of the football we have been playing and coming on the back of a fighting draw last weekend, I thought we are 'due' our first win of the season....and I'll be there for it. When the team news came in...I suddenly became deflated. I knew like most other Evertonians what to expect. Moyes would be playing several key players away from their best positions and in fact wasn't playing one or two players who should be playing. I also knew we would struggle without Cahill with this setup. None the less I was excited to be at Goodison.

I could write pages and pages of criticisms regarding our performance but I will try to be brief.

Felliani (who tried his best) was played out of poistion
Arteta was way too deep
Hetinga was out of position
Osman was a boy lost in a man's world
Beckford is not a 'one up front player'.....his control is poor and he can't hold the ball up or throw is weigh around

I'm no expert when it come to football but when I'm thinking these things and when 30,000 fans are shouting it from the stands then any opposing team and manager can see this and explot it by getting in our faces and not letting us play even with these deficiences.

Moyes (who I normally would support) lost us that game on Saturday. We were too predictable, badly out of shape and balance, no guile or charisma and with no leader on the park.

Now I don't like people who come to me with criticisms without an alternative plan or a solution. So here is my alternative.

1.Play Neville at right back.....he is a good leader who talks and encourages people on the park.
2.Play Coleman in right midfield....this in my opinion would give us a better balance to the squad and he would have Neville behind him to encourage and help him.
3.Drop Hetinga to central defence or to the bench and play Felliani as holding MF.
4.Push Arteta up the field bit more.
5.In the absence of Cahill and Rodwell please give Bily a run out as attacking MF player.....he can score goals and create goals.

I was upset about the result but I was glad to see 'the old lady' that was Goodison Park looking so well and filled with dedicated, and passionate blues. In that sense it was a good day and I was glad to be there......hope to see you all again soon.
Alan Clarke
21   Posted 20/09/2010 at 09:56:48

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If this is as bad a start as we had under Mike Walker then why is Moyes not under more pressure to either resign or be sacked? Moyes has had more money and more time than Walker yet we're still as bad. Moyes has been given more to spend than Walter Smith was ever given and has a far better group of players so how come we're still as bad?

What is the point in persevering with Moyes?
Charles King
22   Posted 20/09/2010 at 10:16:03

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The debit column is long for DM, why on earth is he not using the Phil Brown diversion of "on field karaoke".

Meaningless, but so is having Beckford up front and not passing to him.

"I did it my way"
Ray Roche
23   Posted 20/09/2010 at 10:34:25

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Just about every comment on this thread says the same thing. Fellaini as DM, Arteta further forward, Hibbert or Neville RB with Coleman tried as RM and either the Yak upfront with Beckford or play Beckford to his strengths. We see it.Why can't Moyes see it? I'm not in the "Moyes Out" camp yet but FFS get it sorted Dave.
Sean Mcglory
24   Posted 20/09/2010 at 10:19:41

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Get Manuel Pellegrini in I've had it with Moyes now. He'll do for us what Wenger as done for Arsenal, he's done it with Villarreal with not much money and he got Real Madrid their biggest ever points total last season. Only for Barca been so good he'd have won it, that's the sort of man we need now. He's miles better than all the other names I've here'd been pushed forward on here.

Manuel Pellegrini ? I'd love him here he'd move us forword playing in the right way big time!

Jimmy Hacking
25   Posted 20/09/2010 at 11:03:18

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You know, until this article, I'd completely forgotten about João Silva. What happened to him? Never seems to get mentioned by anyone as a possible (partial) solution to our problems.
Tony J Williams
26   Posted 20/09/2010 at 11:03:21

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Why are the players getting away without any scorn on them? Heitinga, the only rthing of note he has done this season is shoulder charge the other Chuckle brother.

Jags has the "I'm in the England team now" bug and feels he doesn't need to try.

Pienaar had a stormer against ManUre then decided not to turn up on Saturday.

Moyes's substitutions usually get us all wound up, at least on Saturday he changed it at half-time but, as much as I like the little fella, why was Osman still on the pitch... or Heitinga? Both were beyond woeful.

The only "amusing" moment was that daft dope Distin telling us in the Lower Gwladys to calm down... might have been better if Jags did that.

Moyes doesn't know his best side, which is unforgivable for a manager, but those dopes on the pitch have to take an equal amount of blame for such a listless and crappy performance.
Andrew Fair
27   Posted 20/09/2010 at 11:01:18

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Wow, bit of an over-reaction. I think it's time to stop having Moyes as a scapegoat and look at the players. Im a positive fan who looks at the situation with a glass half full kind of attitude. After all the best I've seen before Moyes was Joe Royle ? ok he won us a cup but he wasn't a good manager. On Saturday, however, sitting in the Lower Gwladys street, I became extremely frustrated with everyone in blue on that pitch an I don't believe anything Moyes could have done would have changed it.

Ok he maybe should have started with Coleman but Hibbert did nothing wrong in the 45 mins he was on the pitch. The problem was no passion, no effort, no endeavour.

Beckford cannot be criticised, he was supposed to be supported by Fellaini i think. Distin would just blast the ball up and across the park everytime he got it. Pienaar turned into trouble at every opportunity, Coleman himself was just hitting early panicky crosses into the box as soon as he got the ball.

My point being I suppose that once over that white line the players need to perform; Moyes can do no more. The players in blue deserve to be booed and I hope Moyes rollocks them and in his words "goes back to the old ways" because Saturday was the first time I had lost faith in the EFC players on the whole.

Special mentions go to Jagielka, who kept Andy 'overated' Carroll quiet all game, and Arteta who is wonderful on the ball and should be able to play that 'quarterback' role easily if the supporting cast get their act together.

A mention also for two players who didn't play: Cahill and Neville, they get a lot of criticism on this site but without their passion and effort we looked a poor outfit who have to get their act together or the abuse they suffered at the final whistle will be just the start.

Neil Vaughan
28   Posted 20/09/2010 at 10:55:12

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Quite simply the bottom line is that Moyes is just not good enough....I've been on here saying it for years.

Yes he's done well to take us out of 'The Walter Years' but we will NEVER win a trophy whilst he is in charge,

He is tactically inept and does not like to play attacking football....we have no pace, no width, no creativity and everybody can see it EXCEPT MOYES.

Playing 4-5-1 against the likes of Wolves,Stoke, Blackburn etc (especially at home) is a fucking embarrassment but hey what do I know...

He perseveres with his favourites like Distin, Osman etc whilst playing better players out of position to accmodate them

FFS it took 18 mths to find Fellini's best position and get him playing well then what does he do.... he goes and puts him back up front where he is clueless and a fucking liability with his flailing elbows (wont be long before he's sent off I can see it coming). Heitinga played in a WORLD CUP FINAL only 3 months ago playing as a CENTRE BACK but Moyes plays him as a defensive midfield player WTFis going on there ???...

I feel sorry for Beckford who has to run a round like a headless chicken trying to get a chance...Moyes had already ruined 3 proven goalscorers (Beattie, Johnson & Yakubu) with his tactics and no doubt he'll do the same with another one.... and dont start me about Saha...fucking conman of the highest degree...busts a gut ( & the net) to get his big fat contract but what since...2 league goals (both in the same game) and not many more appearences. Yes on his day he can be a very good player but you cant be a good player if you're never on the pitch.

Sadly nothing will change because Moyes and Bill Kenwright are in each other's pockets....always saying how great the other on is...so we are stuck with this shit for a long while yet....

But please Davie take a bit of advice from the 30,000+ who have to watch this shite week in, week out... play the best players in their best positions, get some width into the team, and hey, who knows, you just might start winning some games.
Mike Oates
29   Posted 20/09/2010 at 11:20:06

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Moyes hasn't got a clue what his best team is - because all his favoured options/ players have decided not to turn up this season.
He thought he had his right side taken care of with Anichebe - but once again injured, with no news of what's up. Now's he hasn't a clue what to do over there with Ossie, Bily and even Coleman not doing the goods.

Arteta, Heitinga have gone missing this season and Distin decides he's a bit fragile against quality opposition.

So only Fellaini and Cahill playing any were near their potential .
Tony J Williams
30   Posted 20/09/2010 at 11:48:57

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Doesn't matter though Mike, as it is Moyes/Hibberts/Osmans fault no matter what.

Arteta gets his nice pay rice, performances drop. Saha get's his long contract, injured again. Heittenger gets to the World Cup Final, he thinks he can spray 40 yearders everywhere...which he can't etc etc but its ONLY the managers fault apparantly.
Gary Mortimer
31   Posted 20/09/2010 at 09:54:38

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Like most Blues I was shocked by how poor we were on Saturday. I think most people would agree that Moyes is probably one of the best managers for getting the best out of depleted squads ravaged by injuries and suspensions, but in the same breath I think that it is obvious that when most of the squad is fit, he hasn?t got a clue what his best team is.

At the moment we have issues up front, but Moyes? priority should be to play his best players in their best positions ? in other words Jonny H in centre defence where he plays for his country (The team that finished runner?s up in the World Cup? Remember Moyes? You were there getting paid by the BBEC to offer your opinions!), Fellaini in defensive midfield role (where he was excelling before he was injured), Arteta to have more freedom to roam, Osman on the bench, and, dare I say it, Yakubu in a very strict diet and fitness programme.

I?ve said it before, but the Yak is clearly not working hard enough to get himself fit. It is almost two years since his injury and those type of injuries tend to affect acceleration and suppleness ? on Saturday he sprinted after one ball and showed a clean pair of heels to the defender ? but it seemed to take him a couple of minutes to get his breath back. He looks overweight, and when you consider how much money he is being paid I think it is astonishing that nothing is being done about it. Perhaps it is time to start with him though ? if only to spur him into getting fitter.

I do feel sorry for Hibbert, who had a solid first half on Saturday before being sacrificed ? his cross for Jags? header was a peach ? and he hasn?t done much wrong.

I think that Beckford would benefit having the ball passed to him rather than trying to chase down the big boot upfield! His movement doesn?t look bad at all, but nobody appears to want to pass to him. He may not be up to the job, but I?ll reserve judgement until he gets a run of games ? that?s if he?s trusted enough.

The other most obvious issues about Saturday were

The lack of pace and guile throughout the whole team.
The lack of discipline in midfield - we let Barton have far too much space and he ran the show.
The reluctance to have ?a go? ? which is baffling given the come back against Man U.
The fact that Arteta was far too deep and could not influence the game enough.
It is time for Moyes to start earning his huge wage
Norman Merrill
32   Posted 20/09/2010 at 11:58:30

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Tony, You forgot to mention the managers massive pay rise, and lengthy contract.
Steve Higham
33   Posted 20/09/2010 at 12:00:48

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Mike #18 totally agree with what you say needs to be done by our manager to stop the rot. The only problem is he wont do it. Most of us have seen since the start of the season that we lack balance.

What worries me is that maybe even the players are getting fed up with the situation and that the manager has lost the dressing room.

Steve Higham
34   Posted 20/09/2010 at 12:00:48

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mike #18 totally agree with what you say needs to be done by our manager to stop the rot.The only problem is he wont do it. Most of us have seen since the start of the season that we lack balance .
What worries me is that maybe even the players are getting fed up with the situation and that the manager has lost the dressing room.
Alan Clarke
35   Posted 20/09/2010 at 12:07:19

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Shouldn't Arteta be moved out wide again? He is dropping too deep because he's shit scared of getting injured playing against the more physical players like Nolan or Petrov or Pederson or Henry. The fact is every team plays it physcial in the centre now and they will see how easy it is to bully Arteta out of the game. He should move out to the right again to give us some creativity and balance in the side. Maybe by January, he'll have found some form and can move back to the centre when Donovan returns.
Stu Moore
36   Posted 20/09/2010 at 12:27:24

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John Nelson (post #16) ..... quite possibly the BEST anaylsis and summing up of a game I have ever read and one that I agree 100% with.

Said the exact same thing myself on Sat in the pub after the game

Moyes has become far too loyal to players and the time has come to pick the best players in their best position

Distin & Osman out

Heitinga Cente Half, Fellaini Def Mid, 2 up front (or Cahill and 1 other)
Gavin Ramejkis
37   Posted 20/09/2010 at 12:26:06

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It makes you wonder if DM does any homework as a manager to assess both his opposition and what he has in terms of players and ability. Each team we have played this season has exploited schoolboy errors and players out of position, why did Newcastle look fitter than our team, how do they have faster penetrative players other than their manager getting and playing them/

Beckford has NEVER played as a lone striker, anyone could look any of his goals up and see him playing off another player, to see Fellaini way out of position at the weekend and often a good twenty yards away from him was the prime cause of him not getting a look in. Osman isn't or ever will be a winger, playing Coleman behind him negates his ability to drive forward as his overlapping player isn't there. Heitinga is a centre half not a holding midfielder. You could go on and on but am getting fed up saying the same things week after week and with Osman year after year.
Stu Moore
38   Posted 20/09/2010 at 12:30:22

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We have got to be the slowest team in the league too. Not rocket science to work out that if you have pace out wide, the oppositions full backs will be scared of venturing forward. Anyone remember Donovan v Chelsea last season?
Craig Walker
39   Posted 20/09/2010 at 12:28:07

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Don't you just love being an Evertonian? Whenever we're tipped to struggle, we do well. Thinking back to the time we finished 4th when pundits were predicting our demise on the back of the Rooney sale. With the hype and excitement pre-season after the second half of last season, did you honestly believe we would get off to a good start? They never fail to let us down do they?

One thing to add to other posts, under Moyes, when losing, why do we need to wait until the last 5 or 10 minutes before we throw the kitchen sink at our opponents?

Frustratingly, the RS have had their worst start for 18 years and we still manage to be below them.

Depressing.
Tony J Williams
40   Posted 20/09/2010 at 12:39:01

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Everything seems slow Stu, how frustrating is it now that we decide to pass the ball instead of hoofing it yet, the feckers in the middle won't move.

Pass and move, it's such a simple concept it's unreal. No-one moves into space, no-one wants to run, it's all pretty little 10 yrad passes sideways or backwards until the other team close them down, then it's back to Howard for the hump upfield.

Move and look for the ball instead of standing on the defender's shoulders waiting for an inch perfect pass and for fecks sake, pass in front of a man, not behind him.
Dennis Stevens
41   Posted 20/09/2010 at 12:46:14

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Tony, I don't think the players are exempt from criticism, although the team selection & possibly the tactics don't necessarily facilitate a good team performance. However, it all still comes back to Moyes - these are his players & his team, presumably trying to implement his tactics. Moyes is the man who has to address the failings whether it's the team selection, the formation, the tactics or the physical & psychological preparation of the players. If he is unable to do so effectively then he should do the decent thing & step aside for somebody who can.
Daniel Johnson
42   Posted 20/09/2010 at 13:13:33

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The Club Moyes inherited and its players has moved on and in doing so has left Moyes behind.

Time for a brave new dawn.
Anthony Hawkins
43   Posted 20/09/2010 at 13:12:57

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I was discussing something similar with a fan of he RS. From an external perspective Moyes will always appear as being one of the best managers in the league and I would have to agree.

However, I do also think he is suffering from what I call the "England Manager Disease" Where he fields the best 11 players we have rather than the best 11 players in their position. that's where we are at right now and that is why we are where we are. If Moyes played the best starting 11 for each position he'd soon seen the only slot which doesn't automatically pick itself is the right wing. What he'd also find is that the opportunities for the stikers also increases and who knows, may be they'd score more!!!

So, on the one hand, Moyes is one of the best managers there is, yet he does have his foybles.
Sean McCarthy
44   Posted 20/09/2010 at 14:04:42

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I was talking to my mate after Saturdays fiasco and said 'Just wait til Mondays Echo. Baines or Neville will be giving us the fighting talk speech'. Ive just seen todays back page and lo and behold we have Baines with a rallying cry!!!!
Its so predictable and pathetic!!!
Alex Gibney
45   Posted 20/09/2010 at 14:58:38

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Although some of Moyes's tactics are baffling, he is in the main a very good manager. He can be a bit negative but 2 fifth place finishes, FA Cup Final and 4th are not bad. The problem is Kenwright and the fact we don't have any money.

Moyes said at the end of last season we needed a top quality forward but we couldn't afford one and would have to go with what we have. It's a crying shame as we do have a great team; we just can't score. Moyes has made some errors in the transfer market but then who hasn't and his good buys far outweigh the bad ones.

It says a lot that the level of disappointment has something to do with expectation leves that have certainly been raised. Having said that, we should have had enough to beat Wolves and Newcastle at home, no disrespect to them....

Tony J Williams
46   Posted 20/09/2010 at 14:54:37

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What would you rather have them do Sean? (I would rather they shut the feck up) Should they come out and have a go at the manager and end in the reserves or badmouth their fellow players...... and end up in the reserves because no one will play with them?

I agree Moyes's tactic and subs are dodgy a lot of the time but I don't care what anyone says, No manager in the history of the world of football would every tell a player to misplace a shot or not shoot properly. That is all down to teh player. A pass is a pass and a shot is a shot and no matter what the Manager yells from teh sideline, if your players aren't doing the basics correct, there is nothign anyone can do to help the team.

Then again apparantly according to some on here, that's exactly what Moyes has said to Coleman, "none of this fancy stuff just hoof it"

Terrible decision to take off Hibbert at half time and replace him with Coleman. Ossie was having an abslute mare and Coleman on the wing would not have been as bad as that, Take off Ossie and bring on Coleman and we can see how good he can or cannot be.

Also Johhny needs to wake up from the dream that he can spray 40 yard passes anywhere....he can't.

Ah, enough is enough, those players and manager wound me up no end on Saturday, the point I am trying to make is that the players need to take the blame also.

So what if someone is not in their right position, they are professional footballers (apparantly) and just because you are on the right or a little further forward, it doesn't mean you get off scott free is your passing goes to shit!
Billy Bee
47   Posted 20/09/2010 at 15:58:51

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I cannot believe all these people who want rid of Moyes. Who are we going to replace him with? Suggestions so far ? Coyle, O'Niell, Jol ? can't be serious. If we were to replace him we would have to have Fergie, Wenger Ancellotti or the Special one. Nobody else would do a better job than saint David with the resources we have.

I would play the following side:

Howard
Neville Jagialka Distin Baines
Heitinga
Bilyaletdinov Arteta Pienaar
Fellaini Cahill
In Moyes We Trust
Martin Handley
48   Posted 20/09/2010 at 16:10:07

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Has Moyes Gone Stale? My answer to that is Yes.

The reason every team in the Premier League has sussed us out is that Moyes has a Plan A and only a Plan A and that is the tired 4-5-1 formation. Even yesterday, when we were crying out for two up top, he stuck his middle finger up to every Evertonian and said, "I will stick to this formation no matter what you or the players think."

Well, let me tell you, Moyesie lad, us Blues are sick to the back teeth of it and I get the feeling so are the players. Is it only me who notices that players can't wait to play for him when they first sign... but, after about two years, they look fed up?

It's been 8½ years now and unfortunately it got to the stage yesterday were it was not only painful but embarrassing to watch Everton against a third-rate team at best like Newcastle. We DO have players with skill quality and ambition but they are being stiffled by the system we are playing.

So, Davey, please listen to this: you are NOT untouchable; Everton WILL survive if you leave. And we may well play some attractive football into the bargain.

To finish, here would be my team and, as Mike Basset would say, "Everton are going to play 4-4-fucking-2!"

Howard
Baines
Jagielka
Heitinga
Neville(Capt)
Pienaar
Fellaini
Arteta
Coleman
Beckford
Anichebe (we need a battering ram and he's the closest we've got!)

Subs:- Mucha, Distin, Cahill, Bilyaletdinov, Gueye, Hibbert, Silva.

No Yak (wants away); No Osman (too lightweight)

Dennis Stevens
49   Posted 20/09/2010 at 16:56:38

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Billy, I don't so much want rid of Moyes as I want him to do his job properly, because he's making a right pig's ear of it at the moment. However, if it becomes apparent he can no longer manage effectively then we must face the disruption that would come with managerial change. Moyes is not irreplaceable & anybody who thinks he is must be deluded.
Gavin Ramejkis
50   Posted 21/09/2010 at 08:53:52

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Billy, how can anyone take you seriously your side doesn't even have a striker in the line up, just as Moyes did against Man U and for the majority of that game we got pumped. I expect a manager to learn form his mistakes but Moyes doesn't I expect the football he gets paid a lot of money to put on show to have some entertainment value it doesn't. I expect a manager to come out and say he got it fucking wrong when he did and apologise for the shower of utter shite we watched on Sunday, you know those poor bastards paying for it?
Anthony Hughes
51   Posted 21/09/2010 at 10:07:32

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Billy, the argument of "who do we replace him with?" isn't good enough. One day it may reach the point where his position becomes untenable (relegation perhaps?). What do we do then? Moyes isn't the be all and end all of football managers and one day he will have to be replaced.
Tony J Williams
52   Posted 21/09/2010 at 11:29:48

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It's not a question of who do we replace him with, it's one of who would want the job. O'Neill left because they were selling his best players to get money......sound familiar?

Only has beens would want a job at Everton, no money, old stadium, grumpy fans starved of success... yeah it's a fecking dream job, isn't it? (The money will be good though, if EFC Co Ltd can actually afford to pay you!)
Dennis Stevens
53   Posted 21/09/2010 at 16:52:37

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Tony, you could look at it that way - although Moyes didn't seem to be too put off when the call came. However, you could also say that a new manager would be well rewarded personally, be confident of sustained support from the Board whilst he implements his strategy, have inherited a pretty decent squad, be at a pretty well supported club, & have the chance to manage in the "Best League in the World". So, although any transfer kitty may have to be largely generated via player sales, I don't think we'd be short of candidates willing to handle a bit of wheeler-dealing as part of the job spec.

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