There are a lot of good articles on here and they all make good points. However, when all is said and done I think that the current malaise is only down to the manager.
He has had money to spend and has fashioned a squad with some good players admittedly but, one way or another, he has neglected to provide us with reliable forwards. Let's face it, unless you work at the club, none of us knows the financial situation at the club but we can presume that Everton pay reasonable salaries and Moyes has had money to spend.
Our current dire league position is mainly/exclusively due to our inability to score goals. Three one-nil defeats surely says that we struggle to score.
So, let's examine the problem. Who are the forwards that are supposed to score the goals?
- Saha, always injured, never reliable and a dismal current streak.
- Vaughan, permanently injured over the last 6 years. Potentially, our best prospect but it is never going to happen.
- Yakubu; perhaps it should now be "Feed the Yak and he'll never score." He didn't do the worst miss at the World Cup by being good.
- Anichebe, may yet be a good midfield player but not good enough up front.
- Beckford, makes Marcus Bent look like Dixie Dean. Is he the worst forward we have ever had in 132 years? Oh and 2 youngsters who will probably never make it, Pinto and Gueye.
Those that still mention the CL are, in my view, insane. This is a relegation fight make no mistake. So , what to do? We have no choice but to play Cahill up front or maybe Ross Barkley, who was on the bench yesterday, may rescue us.
I would keep Moyes until the end of the season and then get rid. I am bored with him and he deserves to go after the fiasco that this season is turning into.
His successor? I have seen many names but we like over-performing Scots. My vote would go to Owen Coyle, he has not done a lot wrong so far.
Jonathan Tasker, Posted 19/09/2010 at 19:59:53
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1 Posted 19/09/2010 at 22:37:11
I´m really disappointed about Vaughan. I really had high hoped for him yet the first game he plays for Palace he scores a hat-trick? Hmmm. Cahill upfront is the only thing that springs to mind... at least he knows where the goal is.
There´s no way Moyes is getting the sack anytime soon nor is he going to walk away from the job, he's far too stubborn so we are stuck with him. Might as well bite the bullet.
2 Posted 19/09/2010 at 22:35:04
But I think one of the important things to note is that a lot of people are saying basically the same kind of things... and I don't think everyone can possibly be wrong. The ones who have spoken of the mood inside Goodison toward the end of the game underline how the rest of us out in InterWebLand reacted and expressed ourselves on here after the final whistle.
One question... who the hell is "Pinto"?
Do you perhaps refer to one João Silva? Who can't even get a full game in the reserves?
3 Posted 19/09/2010 at 22:54:36
4 Posted 19/09/2010 at 23:00:00
To be fair to the guy he's been hung out to dry by Moyes. He came out and claimed it was his intention to gradually ease Beckford into life in the Premier League and didn't expect him to be "the main man" straight away, but then proceeds to start him up front, on his own, in the first home game of the season. Starved of service and with no support whatsoever he's hauled off for Saha. Cue an action replay this weekend, with the guy dragged off at half-time to be replaced by Yakubu.
Getting beat 0-1 at home, desperate for a goal and you bring your new forward off after 45 minutes. What is that superb bit of man-management going to do for his confidence? It's only going to lead to him doubting himself and wondering if he's incapable of making the step up. Ok, he's been anonymous and hasn't done anything of note up to now, but then he hasn't exactly been provided with the platform to succeed has he?
5 Posted 19/09/2010 at 23:11:34
In fact I think your post is full of dramatic overstatements and sillyness!
Beckford the worst striker in 132 years?? Bit dramatic!
We have no choice but to play Barkley up front? WTF!!?
We are in a relegation dogfight?? Steady on lad.
And to top it - Owen Coyle will be the new saviour!! Ha ha!
Anyway, as I said I said, I too blame Moyes though. If the team don't perform then ultimately the manager is responsible. A good manager is one that gets the best from his team. And if he is not getting the best from them then he must identify the problem and act swify to rectify it.
From my perspective there are a few things I don't understand. Why can the manager not see the liability that is Distin? I have noticed distin at fault fir a lot of goals going back as far as Wolfsburg in pre season...so why can't Moyes see this? Why can't he at least try Heitinga with jags?
Why fo we always have to have 5 defenders on the field?
Why can we never have two strikers on the field? Even when chasing a goal deficit?
Why can Moyes not see so many moves break down with Osmans bad control?
Why does he not give Coleman a go? I'm not expecting a messiah like some on here but at home to wolves or Newcastle surely he could be given a start? I accept that he may not be as solid defensively as Hibbert but he may give us something going forward, and it's not like were keeping clean sheets with the current back four anyway!
And finally, if playing such negative formations is nit working, how long do we have to bloody persist with them! If playing this way was getting results then fair enough. But it's not.
So fucking change something Moyes!
6 Posted 19/09/2010 at 23:29:56
Ridiculous thing to say after his first ever few games in the premiership.
7 Posted 19/09/2010 at 23:51:14
I think it is really unfortunate our next game is away (it invites Moyes to err on the side of caution), but Moyes now needs to show that he is not in an echo chamber and that he and his coaching team have not fallen for group think (Round's inadvertently comic aping of Moyes gestures after the Man Utd game was worrying in this regard). We are not really leaking goals. We are not scoring them. Compare our goal difference to the other struggling teams around us. He needs to focus on attack not defense.
Sadly, I'm not holding my breath. I expect the following: Osman and Neville to play; Heitinga to play as our defensive midfielder; Distin to get his game; Fellaini to be stuck up as an attacking midfielder and a lone striker. Players who are on the out: Beckford and Bily (and I think both have potential).
8 Posted 20/09/2010 at 00:04:54
9 Posted 20/09/2010 at 00:31:57
Maybe not but at least one of them has an alternative career as a compact 70s automobile to fall back on
10 Posted 20/09/2010 at 00:16:39
Pan to the RS 2-0 down to Manure and looking to suffer an even bigger hiding. They bring on another striker not to assist Torres not to replace him.
The effecvt of that move was immediate and positive with the RS taking the game up to Manure and scoring two and almost pinching.the game.
In the same situation Moyes would have replaced our lone striker with another lone striker then he would replace a defender for another defender and we would be back to square one. When that dosen't work he will replace a midfielder for another midfielder.
Not once would it cross his mind to break with his defensive mind set by playing two up front.
It is all so bloody boring and predictable.
I also wonder what useful purpose is served by having Steve Round in the dug out.
He sits there wearing a headset, poker faced, unemotional not moving his lips and generally gives the appearance of being totally unconcerned.
It irks me to say that I would rather have Sammy Lee who at least shows a bit of enthusiasm.
11 Posted 20/09/2010 at 00:43:48
12 Posted 20/09/2010 at 00:22:21
Yes this is another shocker start to a season, extremely disappointing considering there were no excuses available this time. But lets be honest, the Newcastle match was the only truly bad performance of the lot so far. We lost at Blackburn because of a rare blunder by Howard, were sloppy against Wolves, pummelled Villa with no reward and showed some great attitude in the dying minutes of the Utd game. Prove me wrong. We deserved to get nothing from Newcastle, but its hardly been a run of bad performances.
And Michael don't call me a Moyes Apologist, I would actually love to see Martin O'Neill in charge - there is a manager who can get the best out of a player. But I still think this being blown out of proportion - frustrating and disappointing at best. What pisses me off most is that it was some of our best players that underperformed on saturday, and that is a concern.
13 Posted 20/09/2010 at 03:51:36
I?ll be happy if we don?t get relegated come the end of the season. Give me 17th ?I?d take it!
14 Posted 20/09/2010 at 03:49:59
15 Posted 20/09/2010 at 08:01:13
Now I don't want to get rid, but I have been really pissed off with the guy for the last year. He seems a bit arrogant and will never hold his hands out. Persisitng with the same tactics that don't work. 1 striker, throw the ball to Fellanis head in the box etc etc.
If it doesn't work first time and the second time, change the system for something new. Maybe Moyes is the system and it is him who needs changing, because he is unwilling to do anything about in on the field...
16 Posted 20/09/2010 at 07:50:40
Not being able to score goals and the imbalance of our midfield.
OK - we know Moyes has no money (cue attacks on BK) but Moyes in my mind should've sold Vaughan, Anichebe, Yak, Saha and possibly Pienaar and Jags to fund it.
I'd generally be classified as a "Moyes Apologist" by our glorious editor - not sure what the label is for the opposite... "Ignoramous"? "Bitter Blue"?, "Axe-Grinder"? - but even its starting to test my patience now, the tactics against Newcastle were a disgrace and for me were "Strike 1 David Moyes".
Sort it out. Please.
17 Posted 20/09/2010 at 08:15:44
The only person to blame is Moyes, he picks the team, he buys the players, he is responsible.
18 Posted 20/09/2010 at 08:31:49
- Why continue to play with Distin who, let's face it, is an utter liability, instead of an accomplished football minded international World Cup finalist centre half in Johnny Heitinga? Once Jags and Heitinga get an understanding, we'll be sound defensively again.
- Why play Fellaini in attacking mid, when it proved 2 years ago he is wasted there, and proved last year that he is border line WORLD CLASS when playing in his NATURAL position in defensive mid?
- Why play Arteta so deep, when he is our number one playmaker and is all round attacking minded?
- And the best one for me is why play Osman right mid when it has been evident for 4 YEARS NOW that he is utterly useless and pathetic when played there?
With regards decision making:
- Why replace like for like players when trying to change the game when they have done nothing wrong (Beckford got no service on Saturday, Hibbert was sound again)?
- Why not replace that wimp Osman with Coleman and be exciting for a change?
- Why not play with an actual attacking mid instead of wasting an excellent defensive mid there?
Saturday has got to be the worst game I have seen in 2 years. Moyes has got it oh so wrong so far this season, and has no-one else to blame for this.
As much as I never thought I'd say it, if this continues until Christmas, he should be shown the door.
19 Posted 20/09/2010 at 09:10:50
No pace, no width, no creativity, the list is endless and it's all down to the manager, other teams have got onto the way we set up and play, it's predictable and easy to defend against and it won't get any better. Using the strikers as fall guys is displaying a lack of knowledge, we don't create chances it's as simple as that.
As for Silva? I pity the lad for coming here, he will not get a sniff of first team football and have any creativity coached out of him before being flogged on. I and many others on this site have for years been unhappy with the way we play the game and it appears others are starting to see the light.
20 Posted 20/09/2010 at 08:58:59
I could write pages and pages of criticisms regarding our performance but I will try to be brief.
Felliani (who tried his best) was played out of poistion
Arteta was way too deep
Hetinga was out of position
Osman was a boy lost in a man's world
Beckford is not a 'one up front player'.....his control is poor and he can't hold the ball up or throw is weigh around
I'm no expert when it come to football but when I'm thinking these things and when 30,000 fans are shouting it from the stands then any opposing team and manager can see this and explot it by getting in our faces and not letting us play even with these deficiences.
Moyes (who I normally would support) lost us that game on Saturday. We were too predictable, badly out of shape and balance, no guile or charisma and with no leader on the park.
Now I don't like people who come to me with criticisms without an alternative plan or a solution. So here is my alternative.
1.Play Neville at right back.....he is a good leader who talks and encourages people on the park.
2.Play Coleman in right midfield....this in my opinion would give us a better balance to the squad and he would have Neville behind him to encourage and help him.
3.Drop Hetinga to central defence or to the bench and play Felliani as holding MF.
4.Push Arteta up the field bit more.
5.In the absence of Cahill and Rodwell please give Bily a run out as attacking MF player.....he can score goals and create goals.
I was upset about the result but I was glad to see 'the old lady' that was Goodison Park looking so well and filled with dedicated, and passionate blues. In that sense it was a good day and I was glad to be there......hope to see you all again soon.
21 Posted 20/09/2010 at 09:56:48
What is the point in persevering with Moyes?
22 Posted 20/09/2010 at 10:16:03
Meaningless, but so is having Beckford up front and not passing to him.
"I did it my way"
23 Posted 20/09/2010 at 10:34:25
24 Posted 20/09/2010 at 10:19:41
Manuel Pellegrini ? I'd love him here he'd move us forword playing in the right way big time!
25 Posted 20/09/2010 at 11:03:18
26 Posted 20/09/2010 at 11:03:21
Jags has the "I'm in the England team now" bug and feels he doesn't need to try.
Pienaar had a stormer against ManUre then decided not to turn up on Saturday.
Moyes's substitutions usually get us all wound up, at least on Saturday he changed it at half-time but, as much as I like the little fella, why was Osman still on the pitch... or Heitinga? Both were beyond woeful.
The only "amusing" moment was that daft dope Distin telling us in the Lower Gwladys to calm down... might have been better if Jags did that.
Moyes doesn't know his best side, which is unforgivable for a manager, but those dopes on the pitch have to take an equal amount of blame for such a listless and crappy performance.
27 Posted 20/09/2010 at 11:01:18
Ok he maybe should have started with Coleman but Hibbert did nothing wrong in the 45 mins he was on the pitch. The problem was no passion, no effort, no endeavour.
Beckford cannot be criticised, he was supposed to be supported by Fellaini i think. Distin would just blast the ball up and across the park everytime he got it. Pienaar turned into trouble at every opportunity, Coleman himself was just hitting early panicky crosses into the box as soon as he got the ball.
My point being I suppose that once over that white line the players need to perform; Moyes can do no more. The players in blue deserve to be booed and I hope Moyes rollocks them and in his words "goes back to the old ways" because Saturday was the first time I had lost faith in the EFC players on the whole.
Special mentions go to Jagielka, who kept Andy 'overated' Carroll quiet all game, and Arteta who is wonderful on the ball and should be able to play that 'quarterback' role easily if the supporting cast get their act together.
A mention also for two players who didn't play: Cahill and Neville, they get a lot of criticism on this site but without their passion and effort we looked a poor outfit who have to get their act together or the abuse they suffered at the final whistle will be just the start.
28 Posted 20/09/2010 at 10:55:12
Yes he's done well to take us out of 'The Walter Years' but we will NEVER win a trophy whilst he is in charge,
He is tactically inept and does not like to play attacking football....we have no pace, no width, no creativity and everybody can see it EXCEPT MOYES.
Playing 4-5-1 against the likes of Wolves,Stoke, Blackburn etc (especially at home) is a fucking embarrassment but hey what do I know...
He perseveres with his favourites like Distin, Osman etc whilst playing better players out of position to accmodate them
FFS it took 18 mths to find Fellini's best position and get him playing well then what does he do.... he goes and puts him back up front where he is clueless and a fucking liability with his flailing elbows (wont be long before he's sent off I can see it coming). Heitinga played in a WORLD CUP FINAL only 3 months ago playing as a CENTRE BACK but Moyes plays him as a defensive midfield player WTFis going on there ???...
I feel sorry for Beckford who has to run a round like a headless chicken trying to get a chance...Moyes had already ruined 3 proven goalscorers (Beattie, Johnson & Yakubu) with his tactics and no doubt he'll do the same with another one.... and dont start me about Saha...fucking conman of the highest degree...busts a gut ( & the net) to get his big fat contract but what since...2 league goals (both in the same game) and not many more appearences. Yes on his day he can be a very good player but you cant be a good player if you're never on the pitch.
Sadly nothing will change because Moyes and Bill Kenwright are in each other's pockets....always saying how great the other on is...so we are stuck with this shit for a long while yet....
But please Davie take a bit of advice from the 30,000+ who have to watch this shite week in, week out... play the best players in their best positions, get some width into the team, and hey, who knows, you just might start winning some games.
29 Posted 20/09/2010 at 11:20:06
He thought he had his right side taken care of with Anichebe - but once again injured, with no news of what's up. Now's he hasn't a clue what to do over there with Ossie, Bily and even Coleman not doing the goods.
Arteta, Heitinga have gone missing this season and Distin decides he's a bit fragile against quality opposition.
So only Fellaini and Cahill playing any were near their potential .
30 Posted 20/09/2010 at 11:48:57
Arteta gets his nice pay rice, performances drop. Saha get's his long contract, injured again. Heittenger gets to the World Cup Final, he thinks he can spray 40 yearders everywhere...which he can't etc etc but its ONLY the managers fault apparantly.
31 Posted 20/09/2010 at 09:54:38
At the moment we have issues up front, but Moyes? priority should be to play his best players in their best positions ? in other words Jonny H in centre defence where he plays for his country (The team that finished runner?s up in the World Cup? Remember Moyes? You were there getting paid by the BBEC to offer your opinions!), Fellaini in defensive midfield role (where he was excelling before he was injured), Arteta to have more freedom to roam, Osman on the bench, and, dare I say it, Yakubu in a very strict diet and fitness programme.
I?ve said it before, but the Yak is clearly not working hard enough to get himself fit. It is almost two years since his injury and those type of injuries tend to affect acceleration and suppleness ? on Saturday he sprinted after one ball and showed a clean pair of heels to the defender ? but it seemed to take him a couple of minutes to get his breath back. He looks overweight, and when you consider how much money he is being paid I think it is astonishing that nothing is being done about it. Perhaps it is time to start with him though ? if only to spur him into getting fitter.
I do feel sorry for Hibbert, who had a solid first half on Saturday before being sacrificed ? his cross for Jags? header was a peach ? and he hasn?t done much wrong.
I think that Beckford would benefit having the ball passed to him rather than trying to chase down the big boot upfield! His movement doesn?t look bad at all, but nobody appears to want to pass to him. He may not be up to the job, but I?ll reserve judgement until he gets a run of games ? that?s if he?s trusted enough.
The other most obvious issues about Saturday were
The lack of pace and guile throughout the whole team.
The lack of discipline in midfield - we let Barton have far too much space and he ran the show.
The reluctance to have ?a go? ? which is baffling given the come back against Man U.
The fact that Arteta was far too deep and could not influence the game enough.
It is time for Moyes to start earning his huge wage
32 Posted 20/09/2010 at 11:58:30
33 Posted 20/09/2010 at 12:00:48
What worries me is that maybe even the players are getting fed up with the situation and that the manager has lost the dressing room.
34 Posted 20/09/2010 at 12:00:48
What worries me is that maybe even the players are getting fed up with the situation and that the manager has lost the dressing room.
35 Posted 20/09/2010 at 12:07:19
36 Posted 20/09/2010 at 12:27:24
Said the exact same thing myself on Sat in the pub after the game
Moyes has become far too loyal to players and the time has come to pick the best players in their best position
Distin & Osman out
Heitinga Cente Half, Fellaini Def Mid, 2 up front (or Cahill and 1 other)
37 Posted 20/09/2010 at 12:26:06
Beckford has NEVER played as a lone striker, anyone could look any of his goals up and see him playing off another player, to see Fellaini way out of position at the weekend and often a good twenty yards away from him was the prime cause of him not getting a look in. Osman isn't or ever will be a winger, playing Coleman behind him negates his ability to drive forward as his overlapping player isn't there. Heitinga is a centre half not a holding midfielder. You could go on and on but am getting fed up saying the same things week after week and with Osman year after year.
38 Posted 20/09/2010 at 12:30:22
39 Posted 20/09/2010 at 12:28:07
One thing to add to other posts, under Moyes, when losing, why do we need to wait until the last 5 or 10 minutes before we throw the kitchen sink at our opponents?
Frustratingly, the RS have had their worst start for 18 years and we still manage to be below them.
40 Posted 20/09/2010 at 12:39:01
Pass and move, it's such a simple concept it's unreal. No-one moves into space, no-one wants to run, it's all pretty little 10 yrad passes sideways or backwards until the other team close them down, then it's back to Howard for the hump upfield.
Move and look for the ball instead of standing on the defender's shoulders waiting for an inch perfect pass and for fecks sake, pass in front of a man, not behind him.
41 Posted 20/09/2010 at 12:46:14
42 Posted 20/09/2010 at 13:13:33
Time for a brave new dawn.
43 Posted 20/09/2010 at 13:12:57
However, I do also think he is suffering from what I call the "England Manager Disease" Where he fields the best 11 players we have rather than the best 11 players in their position. that's where we are at right now and that is why we are where we are. If Moyes played the best starting 11 for each position he'd soon seen the only slot which doesn't automatically pick itself is the right wing. What he'd also find is that the opportunities for the stikers also increases and who knows, may be they'd score more!!!
So, on the one hand, Moyes is one of the best managers there is, yet he does have his foybles.
44 Posted 20/09/2010 at 14:04:42
Its so predictable and pathetic!!!
45 Posted 20/09/2010 at 14:58:38
Moyes said at the end of last season we needed a top quality forward but we couldn't afford one and would have to go with what we have. It's a crying shame as we do have a great team; we just can't score. Moyes has made some errors in the transfer market but then who hasn't and his good buys far outweigh the bad ones.
It says a lot that the level of disappointment has something to do with expectation leves that have certainly been raised. Having said that, we should have had enough to beat Wolves and Newcastle at home, no disrespect to them....
46 Posted 20/09/2010 at 14:54:37
I agree Moyes's tactic and subs are dodgy a lot of the time but I don't care what anyone says, No manager in the history of the world of football would every tell a player to misplace a shot or not shoot properly. That is all down to teh player. A pass is a pass and a shot is a shot and no matter what the Manager yells from teh sideline, if your players aren't doing the basics correct, there is nothign anyone can do to help the team.
Then again apparantly according to some on here, that's exactly what Moyes has said to Coleman, "none of this fancy stuff just hoof it"
Terrible decision to take off Hibbert at half time and replace him with Coleman. Ossie was having an abslute mare and Coleman on the wing would not have been as bad as that, Take off Ossie and bring on Coleman and we can see how good he can or cannot be.
Also Johhny needs to wake up from the dream that he can spray 40 yard passes anywhere....he can't.
Ah, enough is enough, those players and manager wound me up no end on Saturday, the point I am trying to make is that the players need to take the blame also.
So what if someone is not in their right position, they are professional footballers (apparantly) and just because you are on the right or a little further forward, it doesn't mean you get off scott free is your passing goes to shit!
47 Posted 20/09/2010 at 15:58:51
I would play the following side:
Howard Neville Jagialka Distin Baines Heitinga Bilyaletdinov Arteta Pienaar Fellaini CahillIn Moyes We Trust
48 Posted 20/09/2010 at 16:10:07
The reason every team in the Premier League has sussed us out is that Moyes has a Plan A and only a Plan A and that is the tired 4-5-1 formation. Even yesterday, when we were crying out for two up top, he stuck his middle finger up to every Evertonian and said, "I will stick to this formation no matter what you or the players think."
Well, let me tell you, Moyesie lad, us Blues are sick to the back teeth of it and I get the feeling so are the players. Is it only me who notices that players can't wait to play for him when they first sign... but, after about two years, they look fed up?
It's been 8½ years now and unfortunately it got to the stage yesterday were it was not only painful but embarrassing to watch Everton against a third-rate team at best like Newcastle. We DO have players with skill quality and ambition but they are being stiffled by the system we are playing.
So, Davey, please listen to this: you are NOT untouchable; Everton WILL survive if you leave. And we may well play some attractive football into the bargain.
To finish, here would be my team and, as Mike Basset would say, "Everton are going to play 4-4-fucking-2!"
Anichebe (we need a battering ram and he's the closest we've got!)
Subs:- Mucha, Distin, Cahill, Bilyaletdinov, Gueye, Hibbert, Silva.
No Yak (wants away); No Osman (too lightweight)
49 Posted 20/09/2010 at 16:56:38
50 Posted 21/09/2010 at 08:53:52
51 Posted 21/09/2010 at 10:07:32
52 Posted 21/09/2010 at 11:29:48
Only has beens would want a job at Everton, no money, old stadium, grumpy fans starved of success... yeah it's a fecking dream job, isn't it? (The money will be good though, if EFC Co Ltd can actually afford to pay you!)
53 Posted 21/09/2010 at 16:52:37
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