Well, it's come to this, A while ago, in response to a Moyes supporter who is silent now, I stated that I'd settle for Europa League or one of the cups. I don't think this was a demanding expectation considering the nonsense spouted on this site over the summer of top four or even winning the league. After all, David Moyes has assembled the best squad for years, and, let's not forget, on a fucking shoestring.
Here's the thing, though: he hasn't. The team he has built are not good enough. Of course one must take into account the effect of the coach on the team. Frankly, he has been found out.
Inept? Yes, I was criticised for using that word to describe our coach... but I feel happy enough to repeat it. Naive, unsophisticated, safety first to an almost cretinous level, unimaginative, dour and utterly incapable of moving our club forward.
Second from bottom and humiliated by Brentford. These are dark days indeed. I always thought that David Moyes was a man of principle and integrity; if I am right, he will have gone by the end of the week.
Andy Crooks, Posted 22/09/2010 at 00:30:04
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1 Posted 22/09/2010 at 04:53:18
Does anyone still have faith in David Moyes? When all is considered, he has done a good job in stabilising us after the Walter Smith years but Moyes can only possibly be viewed as seriously overrated now by both the media and fans of other clubs.
I really think you guys who are lucky enough (or should that be unlucky enough!) to attend the home games regularly should start voicing your opinions loud enough for Moyes and the Board to hear. Then maybe he will do the decent thing and step down, before we have no option but to push him. He has had time, and yes, not a lot of money in terms of net spend. But our football (and more importantly the results we're getting) aren't reflecting the talent we supposedly have; players are out of positions, and obviously the right-hand side was never sorted either.
Moyes's decisions are mind-boggling and, as you guys, say he just doesn't LEARN from his mistakes. It's so painful. We desperately need some fresh impetus. Shame we gave him that nice new contract eh!
How much more of a train wreck is this season we anticipated so highly going to become?
2 Posted 22/09/2010 at 06:21:40
But, I think it is time for him to do the right thing, and move on. HE HAS TO GO!
OK, we all moan and groan about this and that, Blue Bill/Piennar/Neville/Ground Move etc etc But deep down, we know that compared to others, our club is in a good state. The squad is good/promising, the fan base is there, the players are happy.
OK, a sweeping statement, but the point is that there is no reason for this to be happening, so the buck has to stop with the manager!
4-5-1! How's about going for them with a 4-3-3 or 4-4-2, it's Brentford for fuck's sake. Everything is so negative, so repetetive, it is like having Rainman at the helm!
No, I have loved the bones of Moyes, and had the nice glow when opposing fans have said how lucky we are, but come in, Mr Moyes, your time is up..........
3 Posted 22/09/2010 at 06:33:26
Sadly, I do think there are coaches out there who could get a lot more out of this team than Moyes, but we need someone committed for the long haul and who recognizes that we are broke. I like Coyle but he is too untested. I hate O'Neill's teams. What about Bob Bradley? Too risky? Could he help bring Donovan on board? Or would he just lost the dressing room?
I have serious doubts about the following: Zola, Sven, McClaren.
4 Posted 22/09/2010 at 06:43:21
David! You can change the dynamic. You can control the outcome of a game against a 1st division side.
20 minutes in and the cheerleader in chief has given up on the evening. Fucking hell.
5 Posted 22/09/2010 at 06:35:25
Who knows, but a change is as good as a rest and the fans are restless.
6 Posted 22/09/2010 at 07:26:40
7 Posted 22/09/2010 at 07:30:07
I am interested in whether or not they have respect for the Manager.
I have the impression that they don't. And that's lethal.
8 Posted 22/09/2010 at 07:23:35
I was watching the BBC's Football League programme last Saturday night, after Match of the day. I heard Steve Claridge commenting on Ipswich and stating that they had options upfront. So have we, but the Manager appears reluctant to use them. He continues steadfastly with 4-5-1 against virtually every opponent. His tactics have become at best cautious and at worst predictable. Too often he waits for things to happen before he makes a change - the best coaches/managers makes changes with a view to making things happen - they don't wait. Compare Moyes with Redknapp last weekend - both losing 0-1 at home. Redknapp is more adventurous, prepared to go for it and makes the changes that turn the game around. Moyes - same old bring on the attacking full back and the striker - well it worked in the previous match.
Me and my mate play this game within a game - guess the substitions Moyes will make. Or should I say predict the substitions that he will make.
I hope that I am wrong, I really do but I am afraid that Moyes is going to drag us down. He must show some variety in his tactics. Can he change ? I hope so, I really do hope that Moyes proves me wrong. I fear that he has become a latter day Gordon Lee. Back in the late 1970's Lee promised much - remember 3rd place in 1977-78 - top goalscorers in the Division and Bob's 30 goals !? Yet he got it wrong - ultimately by becoming too cautious- ditching creative players like Thomas & McKenzie in favour of plodders like Nulty & Walsh. Just like Lee back then, David Moyes has some fine attcking talent - he just seems incapable of getting the best out of them. For the 1st time in ages we have a virtually injury free squad - so he loans out Yobo & Vaughan !!! The last 3 seasons we have made poor starts - for 2 of them injuries have been a valid excuse and the fall out from the Lescott affair. No major injury worries this season - perhaps the previous 2 years hid the main problem - is the preparation in close season the issue ?
Players can have off days, so can match officials. But so to can managers, I think it is time for Moyes to step up to the plate and show us what he is made of. Take responsibilty for the performances David - it's you that decides the tactics.
9 Posted 22/09/2010 at 08:15:01
And putting people back in their proper place..you know Heitinga in CB, Fella in DM, somebody anybody in RM (as long as it's not Osman) maybe Baxter, or Coleman or Nev fuck I take Mucha even in that position. (can't do much worse can they?)
And play 2 upfront..,, we got many strikers don't we?
But I'm not paid 65k a week to make these decisions.. so what do I know ehh?
10 Posted 22/09/2010 at 08:17:31
Who would be his replacement? Would we get a good manager in or will it be a disaster? I'm not convinced that Bill K. will find a better manager...
11 Posted 22/09/2010 at 07:48:18
Each year, regardless of injuries etc we always seem to have a 3 month long dressing room / internal bust up somewhere along the line ? usually at the start.
A couple of times, it's seemed to be down to Moyes holding out on signing a new contract, there was a big issue in the US pre-season from memory, wasn't there some business with Stubbs back in the day, etc... and every time it puts the spanners right into our season.
I've by-and-large been a DM supporter and think he's done a great job stabilising us but each time there is an issue he appears to generally be at the heart of it ? a dark situation which completely knocks the team off track. And if the rumours re: JH on another thread are to believed it looks like its going on again.
I think what has taken us all by surprise is we have a full squad for the first time in God Knows When and we have done the complete opposite to how we expected. Why?
Could it be that Moyes has built a squad to cater for injuries (i.e. too many utility players) and now he's not got enough quality specialists in the right positions? Could it be Moyes has no Plan B? Could it be Moyes has caused a bad atmosphere in the dressing room? Could it be Moyes cannot set up a team to play anything other than 4-5-1? Could it be the players Moyes has signed just aren't good enough? Could it be he doesn't know where to play them when all are available?
Only SAF and Wenger have had more time to construct a team. We should be purring like a Rolls Royce five games into the season but we are all over the place, in the relegation zone after having a v v favourable draw of fixtures, out of the first Domestic Cup to Div 1 opposition, STILL HAVE NO ONE TO PLAY RIGHT FUCKING WING 8 YEARS ON, are scratching our heads up front and moral seems to be unravelling before our eyes.
It's as if the boys start the season and they've come off their hols, Moyes turns the place into a boot camp, they react, there's a backlash from the players, he comes down even harder, breaks their will after a dozen games with the help of a couple of generals (Cahill... Neville... ) and then they fall in line and get on with it the David Moyes way by which time its all too late but at last we drag our arses into the also rans.
So. It's immaterial really as he's never going to go... but, cards on the table: We either stick with a defence-minded disciplinarian who will never win us anything... or IMO take us down ? or take a gamble on a manager with attacking flair and creativty with the risk of relegation, another manager within 2 years and utter chaos.
Could I see a show of hands please.....
12 Posted 22/09/2010 at 08:23:47
For the present season we will have DM and thats what we need to face up to so these columns are a waste of time.
Criticism of the PLAYERS who are the general cause of our problems are more needed.
Since signing for more money Arteta has not produced anything to merit his payrise and he is not the only poor performer.
Osman is the constant whipping boy but almost all the team are not putting the effort in.
Confidence is lacking and none of our goalscorers are firing...
I watched a bunch of Arsenal kids turn Spurs over with absolutely brilliant football and Wenger is for my money, the best manager in the league with the best scouting system to back him up.
God only knows where we get our inflated ideas of success from with the bunch we have who cannot beat a bottom club in division one FFS.
We have not produced a really exciting match winner since Rooney.
Once the team get on the pitch the manager can only watch and use the assets he is given.
We are not good enough !!
There is not a really bad team in the premier this season and Im afraid we have a dogfight on our hands to survive, never mind win anything !
13 Posted 22/09/2010 at 08:35:59
Fulham (a) we always lose to at their place.
Birmingham (a) Very tricky game. Birmingham are a team like Everton use to be. Tough, organised full of spirit. Could easily lose this.
Liverpool (h) When was the last time we beat them in the league? Andy Johnson's derby?
Spurs (a) Another away fixture we have an awful record in.
So the next four games are very tricky. We could easily lose all four. Surely Moyes will quit then.
14 Posted 22/09/2010 at 08:57:43
Dark times!, get a fecking grip.
It's only dark times to those who stupidly thought we would be fighting for the title/Champions League places. The rest of us can see it what is is. An average team that can't score in a brothel at the moment.
Yep Moyes deserves criticisms but those useless feckers in the middle need grief also. As Moyes said, "How many chances did we have?", more than enough to win comfortably but the players, yeah you heard me, the players need to start remembering that they are a professional footballer and start playing like one.
15 Posted 22/09/2010 at 08:51:57
The obvious name that springs to mind is O'Neill but rumours were he left Villa due to lack on money so why would he join us.
Do we stick with Moyes and hope he comes to his senses sooner rather than later and realise that we can win games with two strikers and players who play in their correct positions?
16 Posted 22/09/2010 at 09:05:45
And as for the "Moyes Out" brigade....who would you replace him with realistically....
17 Posted 22/09/2010 at 09:08:30
At this point, Lily Savage couldn't do a worse job!
18 Posted 22/09/2010 at 09:09:16
But he wont!
And therein lies the problem!
6 games in and I've lost interest!!
19 Posted 22/09/2010 at 09:12:28
We're struggling up front and it seems also for confidence personally i cant think of anyone better to turn this situation around. COYB!!!
20 Posted 22/09/2010 at 09:15:30
Much like finding an investor, finding a new manager is for Everton (and it pains me to say it) a hard sell.
No money, bullshitting chairman, nearly bottom of the league, out of one domestic Cup, a team that is clearly unsettled, etc etc....
Not exactly going to pry Mourinho from Real for that now are we......
21 Posted 22/09/2010 at 09:07:59
22 Posted 22/09/2010 at 09:10:00
Moyes is earning 3M a year. He has around 4 years left which would mean a pay off of around 12M. Not a fucking hope. Even if Moyes took a 50 pct pay off that would mean the next managers transfer kitty would be blown.
Moyes will stay till he has had enough of (a) abuse from the fans, last Saturday he was taking it by the truck load or (b) his image as one of the best EPL manager's has been shredded.
Personally, Moyes need a striker big time. The Yak really could not give a flying fuck, Saha is what we knew he would be and Beckford is out of his league - hence Moyes goes for the big fella up front.
So going forward, it's not so much "Moyes out" as "we need a fucking striker".
23 Posted 22/09/2010 at 09:14:26
24 Posted 22/09/2010 at 09:26:58
Once we start to lose those (as is apparently happening now) we are on a slippery slope....
25 Posted 22/09/2010 at 09:32:16
I just think Moyes has been found out. His main way of playing football has been to get the players working hard for him. That's changed, they've stopped working for him and they've lost their fight. In other words it seems Moyes' 'best ever squad' have turned on him, he's lost the dressing room.
If we can't beat Brentford, what hope is there for this season? A lot of 'pro-Moyes' supporters always use the defence that he's steered us away from the dark days of Walter Smith. From where I'm standing, he hasn't so what defence is there now?
26 Posted 22/09/2010 at 09:00:50
The board will seek clarity from Moyes as to which direction they take next. Moyes knows he is sitting pretty, he won?t get the sack and the club cannot afford to be rid of him. They cannot afford it and Moyes, whose love affair with the press sees him do no wrong, will be sitting pretty in that boardroom knowing that the media are piling no pressure on him at all to get results so what reason would they sack him??
Because we cannot score goals to win game I hear you crying. The board cannot sack him for this he highlighted the requirement to improve the squad over the summer and they are acutely aware that they, the board members, have impinged his desire to sign a truly World Class (to you a phrase) striker and right winger. Listen to every press conference he has held after we?ve lost this season and it is the same story, we are not scoring goals ? he is covering his arse using Bill Kenwright?s face to protect it and there is nothing Kenwright can do. After all, Kenwright didn't put up so they can shut up (even though Bill said ?there are funds available? this is possibly not 100% fact). Yes, they signed Moyes, Beckford on a free from Leeds and Gueye for less than £1m from Strasbourg, but in Moyes?s eyes these players are going to be ready in years to come.
He has lost the dressing room, no bad vibe has come from player attitude or leaking to the media. I think leaders within the team, Cahill, Neville and Jags are still right behind him supporting him. He is under no real pressure from this direction, ok perhaps Bily is in his ear a bit, but he started last night and didn?t run the game like you?d expect a £10m player too.
With no pressure from the Media, the players and with the Board not really able to apply pressure at this time I think we will have to put up with him for a long while yet. He thinks he is invincible and how can we argue.
27 Posted 22/09/2010 at 09:29:13
28 Posted 22/09/2010 at 09:52:38
29 Posted 22/09/2010 at 10:00:00
Instabiltiy on top of everything else won't help.
Moyes needs to rethink and act. Attacking football is the only way forward for this squad.
30 Posted 22/09/2010 at 10:06:33
31 Posted 22/09/2010 at 10:07:59
32 Posted 22/09/2010 at 09:48:24
I must counter, Moyes is a functional manager he had the good fortune to walk into Goodison when all hope had gone.
He provided the bare essentials of organisation and solidity securing safety via hoofball.
An accomodating man, he has vitally secured the support of Ferguson a huge lever in manipulating the sheep like pundits and is part of a back slapping clique within football.
Chris Hughton is proving at Newcastle fundamental coaching within a "no expectation" environment can steady the ship, but we got past that some years ago and DM has failed to progress.
To be classed a good manager he needs to.
33 Posted 22/09/2010 at 10:36:13
Your 100% correct but unfortunately last night proved that it isnt on his agenda.
34 Posted 22/09/2010 at 10:46:02
35 Posted 22/09/2010 at 10:41:35
Routine poor start to the season.
Routine cup exit to lower league oppostion.
Usual team selection employing old favourites regardless of performances or form of the players.
Same old formation regardless if it works or not.
Same old substitutions,(Hibbert off, striker off, striker on, no change of formation during game).
Usual situation where we will go on bit of run and people will say what a great job Moyes is doing turning it round when he's a big part of why we fucked it up in the first place.
Usual suspects in the paper babbling on about how we need to get our fighting spirit back and get back to winning ways.
Token gestures when we are in Europe as if we're just happy to be there.
It just going to go on and on because Moyes is going nowhere, he ain't going to quit and Kenwright definitely isn't going to sack him.
36 Posted 22/09/2010 at 10:40:11
An up and coming manager would love to take control of this squad. What's more somebody with some tactical acumen which Moyes is severly lacking.
As already posted, Hoddle,
Clough & Keane would have a go too, no doubt a few more from the championship aswell, lets face it we're playing like a league 1 side at the moment
I honestly don't think Steve Round has brought anything to the table, if anything during his time here we have gone backwards. If it wasn't my own team and so sad I would have laughed my arse off when I saw him at the end of the Manure game, almost a carbon copy of Moyes. Moyes walks on and waves his hands and shouts, 2 seconds later Round does the same, pitiful.
37 Posted 22/09/2010 at 10:50:03
38 Posted 22/09/2010 at 11:17:32
39 Posted 22/09/2010 at 11:23:15
That's cause my dad's younger than the Yak, My Mum's fitter than Saha and I've got more experience than Beckford
40 Posted 22/09/2010 at 10:59:06
41 Posted 22/09/2010 at 11:06:41
WELL FUCKIN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT THEN.
Moyes OUT, BILIC in
42 Posted 22/09/2010 at 11:22:54
43 Posted 22/09/2010 at 11:30:27
44 Posted 22/09/2010 at 11:37:04
I fear he will give us all the finger and go 4-5-1.
Also last night if Moyes loves 4-5-1, why did we have 3 strikers on the bench and 1 on the pitch? Is this either, nobody else to sit on the bench or a lunatic at work?
45 Posted 22/09/2010 at 11:40:39
This may sound like it will make matters worse but Phil Neville will be the new Everton manager, his first game will be 4-4-2. You have to remember although Neville is Moyes bum boy, players will say things to Neville than to Moyes, also NEville will know Moyes has lost the plot.
Neville for Manager of the year !
46 Posted 22/09/2010 at 11:48:09
47 Posted 22/09/2010 at 09:37:33
We have had a bad start for sure > but the season isn't over yet.
Who else can we get who will do a better job? (with no budget for players).
Let's show DM a little faith... Hes shown loyalty to Everton - it's time for us to show some in return.
48 Posted 22/09/2010 at 11:54:13
If Moyes does ever leave then Mark Hughes, Martin O'Niell, Martin Jol, maybe even Roberto Di Matteo from West Brom. I think all of these could do a better job than the dour scot is at the moment.
49 Posted 22/09/2010 at 11:36:14
You are right in your comment on Steve Round.
He is a defensive coach, does that not speak for itself?
Yesterday morning on radio merseyside, he said that Moyes and himself have come to the conclusion that ONE up front was the way forward.
So it has been agreed, by the two running the team.
50 Posted 22/09/2010 at 11:54:23
He had the likes of Neville who's just come back from an injury and wasn't needed in midfield, Osman who is just not good enough anymore and that overpriced, spineless Belgian who I can say hand on heart shows the least passion of an Everton player I have ever seen! Talk about wearing the shirt with pride, and living up to Dave Hickson's famous quote 'I'd break any bone in my body for any club I'd play for but I'd die for Everton.'
It's obvious to me we need players who will give 100% and fight for the blues and it shows that for all the criticism Cahill gets, we really miss his workrate and goals. And players like James Vaughan would do no worse than the strikers now and I'm sure he'd work twice as hard and that can set the tone for the whole team.
51 Posted 22/09/2010 at 12:04:48
Moyes appears child like in his constant fundamental errors so why are we paying a manager £67.000 a year to behave like a child ?
52 Posted 22/09/2010 at 11:25:31
I wish you would all stop banging on about the god lover he would get a nose bleed north of that RAC station Jcn 8 M5/M6 at Brum and doesn't give a fig about Everton. The ex-Villa manager has got Keeganitits when he can't have what he wants, the fuse and the bottle goes, and hey presto 'your' manager walks away, terrific. The Englishman with the Dutch (now German accent) would end up with a laugable scouse accent, and he's just a yes man, gives me the creeps seriously. Blue tint Swedish specsaver man is a MERCENARY with no compunction toward any history of our club, whose credibility and trustworthyness I rank st nil.
Moyes (AT LEAST) is NOT typical of ANY off the above, thank Christ. YOU SERIOUSLY THINK ANY OF THESE (ALL OF WHOM WOULD WANT BIGGER SALARIES THEN MOYES) WOULD DO US ANY GOOD?. We must NOT knee jerk and get rid of the manager.
The manager does though need to review his policies of player selection and style of play in order to ascertain what and how to get the most out of a pretty good crop of players, who must also take a good look at themselves. The first 30 minutes and the last 10 including that 3 minutes at the end of the M Utd game IS the way forward.
Moyes may well be (mostly) responsible in the eyes of a lot of you fellow Evertonians for our current predicament, so therefore he must be (mostly) responsible for getting us into Europe, so therefore he must take the responsibility to get us out of our current position. I BELIEVE HE WILL and I'll come back on here and hold my hands up if he doesn't whether he flounders, walks or gets the sack.
He has got us into some good positions in most of the competitions we have been in over the last few years, I can understand the current disappointment, and how frustrating he can be at times, but we desperately need Moyes to learn the killer instinct akin to a quality striker, when picking his teams and formulating the playing style, to get us that elusive piece of silverware.
53 Posted 22/09/2010 at 12:07:45
54 Posted 22/09/2010 at 12:05:03
Based on last night?s formation and other recent performances, maybe the bottle-throwing Brentford fan was trying to be helpful.
He was merely trying to return the bottle he thinks we have lost.
55 Posted 22/09/2010 at 12:09:25
56 Posted 22/09/2010 at 12:13:44
DM must go or these next 9 months will be unbearable.
There are no excuses left, this season was always a critical time for him in my opinion, and he has failed.
Yes, people may say its early days yet that is not acceptable.
Everton deserve better than the shocking system he continually and subbornly supports.
57 Posted 22/09/2010 at 12:10:53
Lets face it he's not going to change his tactics or selections so we're either stuck with it and it starts to bear fruit or we're stuck with it and we fold.
In previous seasons its done us proud but if the line is that fine between success and failure playing this way then I for the first time in (OK second) his tenure think we are in need for a change.
I can see us getting as few as 2 points out of the next 12, which'll mean 4 points out of a possible 27 which could be the "D" in "Down".
58 Posted 22/09/2010 at 12:17:28
Hibbert Heitinga Jags Baines
Bily Arteta Pienaar
59 Posted 22/09/2010 at 12:16:40
Last night was a disgrace, Bringing the Yak off for beckford was one of the worst substitutions I have ever seen, I dont see why we cant play 2 upfront. Also the story he has put out today about a fan throwing a bottle or whatever is a joke, trying to get the attention away from himself and I also can not be arsed with any more of the players saying we will improve/start performing etc.
60 Posted 22/09/2010 at 11:47:50
So, if Moyes goes, what about Paul Dickov?
Miserable twat and even a Glaswegian to booth. His negativity have fucked Oldham over, maybe he could come here and continue what he's doing there?
He could even be player manager and lead the line up front, so we save money from not buying a striker in january.
61 Posted 22/09/2010 at 12:19:05
Anthony, 55. Spot on, add in Heitinga too. I don't think any of those 3 are bad players, they're just the wrong players. Last summer we needed a striker and a pacey right winger. We got another central defender or 'utility' player and a slow left winger who it turns out isn't a winger but we're not sure what his position is. The summer we signed Fellaini, we'd just missed out on signing Wright-Philips then we sign Fellaini. Even then our priority should have been a right winger but Moyes signed another defensive midfielder. So it's quite obvious why we've no balance in our team and why we've a total lack of attacking options.
62 Posted 22/09/2010 at 12:17:14
We've been waiting over 8 years, it just one long repetitive cycle and familiar mistakes regarding team selection and tactics. If he hasn't learnt by now then i wouldn't hold my breath waiting for him to change anytime soon.
63 Posted 22/09/2010 at 12:25:54
If Moyes were to leave then I would insist on Steve McClaren as our next manager.
64 Posted 22/09/2010 at 12:36:16
There is a standout candidate, he has Everton FC written all over him from an attitude point of view and I will keep banging the drum
A proven winner, a terrible loser (unlike smirking, excuse making Moyes), and a man who has proven that not only can he work on a budget (Blackburn), he can also get a team playing with style and attacking intent.
Only on a 2 year deal at Fulham and would jump at the chance to manage this club.
Hughes and Bowen...the men to take this club forward.
65 Posted 22/09/2010 at 12:39:10
The Lescott saga aside, the main problem with Mark Hughes is that he is shite.
66 Posted 22/09/2010 at 12:39:50
Fellaini needs to and can only play sitting in front of the back four. He's a liability playing up front or just off a striker because of his temperament, defenders are on to him now and are going to wind him up with pushing and shirt pulling.
He was lucky not to get sent off on Saturday and Moyes must see this and restore him back to his defensive midfield role, although with Neville fit again i can see Hibbert back in at fullback and Neville slotting in to midfield to play the holding role.
Lets hope Cahill's fit otherwise i think it will be Fellaini up front with a.n.other
67 Posted 22/09/2010 at 12:48:17
68 Posted 22/09/2010 at 12:31:54
1) He is far too cautious.
2) He appears to adopt the same tactics/formation regardless of the opposition.
3) He is also far too predictable.
Blame the players is the cry from those who support DM - well it is down to the manager as to the tactics that the team adopt. He decides on the tactics, formations etc, substitutes and substitutions.
We have a good squad of players but I am afraid that I don't have 100% confidence that David Moyes is the manager/coach to get the best from those players. I would say David Jones is one name to consider. An Evertonian through and through who has worked miracles at Cardiff City. I think it is at least twice that they have faced winding up petitions in the High Courts, yet he has still managed to keep them up in the promotion hunt in the last couple of seasons. And in answer to the obvious response- well he hasn't won them promotion yet has he ? That's true, but given that the club has come close to going out of business just keeping them in the hunt for promotion is an acheivement in itself - and it proves that he can cope with pressure.
69 Posted 22/09/2010 at 12:45:58
Martin Jol would be my choice. Tactically he's excellent and his teams play good football.
I'll be there gaina Saturday, with the other 2,500 balloons who give a shit. But I'm hoping more than I'm believing.
70 Posted 22/09/2010 at 12:51:17
1. We have a chairman and board that are unwilling/unable to provide funds to address the key areas on the pitch, foremost of those now being a striker who can put chances away, and that other players will trust (could it be that our other players don't think that Beckford can for example?)
2. Our manager is unwilling/unable to change his favoured formation so that, for example, chances that are made are converted into goals. A lone striker who thrives with a strike partner replaced by an untested striker who thrives with a partner was never going to get us the result that we needed. Other issues with player position could be possibly be put down to working with what you've got or who's still talking to you in the dressing room?
Problem 1 - No idea how this can be addressed, where's our Billionaire and will our "true blue" leader and his pals sell? While it remains an issue, this will stifle any manager, a lack of tried and tested options (i.e. not Coleman, not Gueye, not a lone Beckford, not even Bily - yet?) is more than likely going to leave us looking bereft of ideas when the pressure is on.
Problem 2 - This is more worrying if it continues, something has to change quickly and convincingly.
So, I am David Moyes, what do I do now?
A closed door, open and honest, clear the air conversation with MY players; Play players in their correct position - Fellaini holding mid, available for defence to pass the ball to, JH central defence, 2 up top - Beckford playing off the Yak if TC's not available? Right-mid, who knows?; Make decisive, attacking changes when things aren't going our way - drop/substitute my favourites if I have to, but somehow work to the strengths of those players that I've got.
If that doesn't work then, and as a grateful DM fan it pains me to say it, time for a change of manager. How much longer does he get? I say he's got 4 more games.
And then the very valid question that frequently gets shot down on these pages, who else can/will do the job? It's going to have to be someone who's relatively cheap (we can't afford £65k a week if we've just had to pay DM off), someone willing and able to get the best out of the squad he inherits; and someone able to work with one of, if not the, tightest/most stingy transfer budget in the Premier league. I think there's only 1 man that fits the bill, our very own chuckle brother Phil Neville. That doesn't fill me with as much dread as I thought it would.
Make no mistake, getting rid of DM is a huge gamble, for all of his faults he has brought stability, expectation and (currently dwindling) respect and pride back to this once great club. This gamble should not stand in the way of the falling axe if the time is right, and that time may be near.
71 Posted 22/09/2010 at 12:49:08
Here's the thing, though: he hasn't."
Of course he has, that much is self-evident.
"The Dark Days of David Moyes" have been full of hope compared to Walter Smith's charge; the team is qualtatively better than those of Royle, Walker and Howard the third.
Venomous attacks aside It's clear that something has to change throughout this club. I just hope its for the better. Maybe you should apply, Andy Crooks.
72 Posted 22/09/2010 at 12:44:31
Unless you're on the inside, does anyone really know? There's opinion and there's speculation to suit your argument. I have no inside information on what goes on at Finch Farm, so I'd prefer to restrict my output to an opinion, which is that I don't like the team selections, tactics and the failure to address certain positions that were in obvious need of strengthening LAST season. For that, Moyes is culpable.
73 Posted 22/09/2010 at 12:52:12
In all Hughes's managerial career he has done nothing demonstrably great, be it at Wales, Blackburn (slow but steadyish improvement a la Moyes), City (transfer record laughable - see Lescott) or now Fulham.
I don't want Moyes to leave, I'm not beating any drum for McClaren and I certainly don't claim to know best, but at the very least the man with a very odd accent seems to have learned from past mistakes and taken a club from outside the Dutch big three (assuming that is the status of Ajax, Feyenoord and PSV) and won the league. Seems to me that's exactly what we are demanding from Moyes.
74 Posted 22/09/2010 at 13:08:52
75 Posted 22/09/2010 at 13:06:29
We aren't playing well, and we're in a bad run. We finished last season unbeaten in 11. The players aren't playing well and the football is crap. Just last season - our football was superb for the most and we were steamrolling teams. I know that was last season, but that shows that this is not a bad team - just in a bad patch.
I have every faith in the manager and players, and that collectively, they'll look at themselves and turn it around.
Also, maybe the Moyes supporter you speak of is just fed up having to constantly defend him knowing that the team always turn it around and then the nay-sayers are then nowhere to be seen.
76 Posted 22/09/2010 at 13:03:54
Therein lies the problem with Moyes.
Come on Kenwright grow some fucking balls.
77 Posted 22/09/2010 at 13:12:16
City is a circus, to judge him on that, at the stage they were at, is plain wrong in my view.
The job he did at Blackburn is the more comparable one, and he was sensational.
How you bring Fulham into it, when he has been there a matter of weeks....i'm not quite sure. It's probably an indication of the strength or validity of your opinion to be honest.
78 Posted 22/09/2010 at 13:27:28
79 Posted 22/09/2010 at 13:18:16
80 Posted 22/09/2010 at 12:15:20
As a realist more so than a Moyes supporter I stated a while back our situation reminds me alot of Charlton Athletic for some reason - back when they were unhappy with midtable mediocrity in Curbishley and demanded change. Look at them now. Our situation will not change with a change of manager. It requires a change of ownership.
As for 'expecting' a Europa league place or even a cup - the FACT is there are 6 teams with much better finances than us - Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs, Man City, and yes, Liverpool - so to finish above any of them in this day and age would be a remarkable acheivement, regardless of who is in charge. That leaves us and Villa battling for 7th & 8th, which I am sure is where we will end up. Am I happy about it? Not entirely, but I accept it is the best our manager can do given the hand he has been dealt.
Yes, its a poor start and yes, losing to Brentford is embarrassing, but I won't be looking for a knee jerk reaction. This is the same side that lost just twice in 20 something games last by the way!
81 Posted 22/09/2010 at 13:56:21
For all those criticising negative tactics, who else would you play up front? Yak- who is patently unfit and doesn't seem to care at the moment, Beckford who is untried at this level, Saha almost permanently crocked. Seems a waste of 2 team positions, to be playing 2 out-of-form strikers rather than just the one
All very well saying, as some have recently, that Vaughan has just banged in a hat-trick, but that's being wise after the event. And it's not like Moyes had any cash to buy another striker in the transfer window.
82 Posted 22/09/2010 at 13:55:51
Is it the ownership who choose what tactics to use?
Is it the ownership who play players out of position?
Whilst the board are a waste of space, the shite start is down to Moyes.
83 Posted 22/09/2010 at 14:02:28
O-1 down at half time....take off a full back and replace him with another,likewise a forward. Keep your formation and hope for the best.
O-2 down at half time....make a couple of subs because your formation isn't working and go and try and score the goals to win a game.
Scenario 1 outcome-Piss poor performance with the manager saying he didnt think the subs he made couldve been game changers and the players need to buck up their ideas,taking no blame himself......0-1 loss
Scenario 2 outcome-Manager rallies the troops,throws on an extra forward and says afterwards he picked the wrong team and formation before the match and had to change formation to win the game.........4-2 win
Now i'm not saying he is the man per say but a young,fresh manager at lower league level LIKE Lee Clark at Huddersfield who can see where he is going wrong may be the way forward.Just like Davey Moyes used to be!
84 Posted 22/09/2010 at 14:04:31
What astounds me even more is who the people on here should replace him - Martin O'Neill, Glen Hoddle, Nigel fuckin Clough. That tells me all I need to know about their football knowledge. Incredibly one poster is even suggesting things are the same as they were under Smith! FFS you need help lad.
85 Posted 22/09/2010 at 14:24:28
To be fair, things are pretty much as they were under smith. We went trophyless, and flirted with relegation.
86 Posted 22/09/2010 at 13:59:12
With all the talk of breaking into the top 4.
Is the board having a laugh.
87 Posted 22/09/2010 at 14:29:37
The same coach is no longer dynamic and hope inspiring. Why can we not do as before?
88 Posted 22/09/2010 at 14:39:20
Literally spot on in every way.
89 Posted 22/09/2010 at 14:33:53
Jaime, who brought the unproven Beckford to the club? Who brought and then went on to give another contract to the most injury prone striker in the league?Who could have sold Yakuba to generate funds to buy a new striker?
No prizes for getting this one right.
90 Posted 22/09/2010 at 14:43:42
It was the same after we finished 4th, "It's a relegation dogfight" the worriers cried, the same last year. "It's a relegation dogfight" you cried.
We have not been close to even worrying about relegation since after the first half season he came.
91 Posted 22/09/2010 at 14:38:59
92 Posted 22/09/2010 at 14:49:01
93 Posted 22/09/2010 at 14:53:19
94 Posted 22/09/2010 at 14:53:12
95 Posted 22/09/2010 at 14:59:24
Take it easy.
96 Posted 22/09/2010 at 14:58:16
Never thought he got a fair deal at spurs and from what I hear he is up for another crack at the EPL.
97 Posted 22/09/2010 at 15:05:31
98 Posted 22/09/2010 at 15:11:37
I suppose we'll just settle for being there, doesn't matter if we don't win it.
99 Posted 22/09/2010 at 15:23:46
100 Posted 22/09/2010 at 15:23:10
A shite start as it is, can some of it be down to the players just not performing aswell??
101 Posted 22/09/2010 at 15:39:49
The reason we never qualified after the CWC is we where banned.
Remember that ?
102 Posted 22/09/2010 at 15:34:57
Yes we haven't won anything but I am guessing the forray into the Champions league qualifiers and the actual 2 times we have qualified for the league part of the Europa is a little bit better than worrying about whether we will have enough points to stay up, don't you think?
103 Posted 22/09/2010 at 16:03:04
What is interesting though is the past managers section on this site. Smith's section shows some strangely familiar traits we see in Moyes.
104 Posted 22/09/2010 at 16:04:07
105 Posted 22/09/2010 at 16:05:32
Some people are unbelievable.
106 Posted 22/09/2010 at 16:01:55
107 Posted 22/09/2010 at 16:12:32
108 Posted 22/09/2010 at 16:16:35
Probably more to do with the Premier league now being shite after the "sky teams" but it's still a respectable return for a skint club
109 Posted 22/09/2010 at 16:07:26
110 Posted 22/09/2010 at 16:19:34
111 Posted 22/09/2010 at 15:55:37
? The signing a Bily for a huge amount of money (relatively)
? The persistence with tried and tested Distin, Hibbert and Osman
? The tried and tested yet dour 4-5-1
? The inability over many years to strengthen what has always been Moyes's achilles heel ? 'Attack'
Moyes has had his successes in the transfer market and in league standings. it is too easy to forget how truly awful the 'Smith and Knox' years were. Terrible players playing, terrible football using terrible tactics resulting in relegation fears for years.
Moyes has turned the club into a side who regularly compete in the top half of the table and are capable of reaching finals and semi finals of cup competitions despite cripplingly low cash reserves. Teams like Man City, Spurs and Villa along with the big four all easily outspend Everton and have done for many years. The fact that we have been competing against these teams is credit to the man and his players but eventually the gap has to widen and as it stands there is a yawning chasm between the clubs mentioned and ourselves.
Accepting mid-table for a club like ours is simply not on and Mr Kenwright must take the lion's share of responsibility and this is where I feel the real problem lies. A huge injection of cash is crucial to the club ? otherwise, teams like Birmingham, Fulham, Sunderland and eventually all the rest will be outspending this club.
Is Moyes the right man to take the club further? Probably... but, if not, then I can name two managers who would bring fresh thinking, exciting football and positivity back to a club so desperately in need of all three.
Roberto Martinez and Ian Holloway!
112 Posted 22/09/2010 at 16:16:26
This guy turned the mighty Swindon Town into a very good footballing team, then on to Southampton, and they were are very good footballing team, next stop Tottenham, and they played great football under him. This guy knows how to coach and attack, Everton would be transformed over night and it would actually be fun watching us play again.
113 Posted 22/09/2010 at 16:27:54
114 Posted 22/09/2010 at 16:28:00
115 Posted 22/09/2010 at 16:34:50
116 Posted 22/09/2010 at 16:36:06
Ian Hollerawaywiththefairies... Christ, the rest of the post was quite sensible then you hit us with these two, surely a wind up.
117 Posted 22/09/2010 at 16:35:30
118 Posted 22/09/2010 at 16:51:23
"When have we actually flirted with relegation? Don't include the 17th place".
Errr....ok. What would you call 17th place? Eye contact? 11 places away from Europe? A champions league place in a reverse table?
My oh my, the rose-tintedness for Moyes apologists is mighty strong.
119 Posted 22/09/2010 at 14:07:54
So what are you saying? that we're
just to lie down and accept yet another abysmal start to a season just because we never picked up until November last time??
Last season was a fucking failure, no matter what angle you look at it from, why people on here choose to celebrate finishing 8th is beyond me, its an embarassment to our club.
If we don't pick up until November again this season, then its going to be yet another mediocre, awful season of finishing as also-rans.
@GJ Butler (80)
I'd say Villa have better finances than Liverpool so how are Villa not mentioned on your list of club's with better finances than Everton, yet Liverpool are!?
120 Posted 22/09/2010 at 16:55:15
I just have a different opinion to you....apologies if I don't conform to your way of thinking.
121 Posted 22/09/2010 at 16:53:34
122 Posted 22/09/2010 at 16:43:55
I blame the players mainly with Arteta, Distin, Johnny and Felli getting most of my bile, but Moyes is the Guv. He is clearly doing something wrong. Personally, I think he, Round and the players believe they are on the verge of greatness (a top 4 finish!!) and have started the season with arrogance. The players have alluded to this a touch and I think it's true. They all need a good slap, Moyes included.... and Moyes will never walk and Blue Bill will never sack him, ever.
Our team's attitude stinks bigger than anytime in my 28 years as a fan. You would'nt want many of this lot fighting in the trenches with you... Pathetic!
123 Posted 22/09/2010 at 16:58:13
It's nothing to do with Moyes but everything to do with you Moyes haters trying to rearrange history to suit your rants
124 Posted 22/09/2010 at 17:07:20
125 Posted 22/09/2010 at 17:06:26
126 Posted 22/09/2010 at 17:10:06
127 Posted 22/09/2010 at 17:17:12
128 Posted 22/09/2010 at 17:35:32
David Moyes needs to be sacked , we are shite under him!
Moyes has had 8½ years, and spent over £100 million on that load of shite. He has spent more than Walter and Royle, and been afforded more time. Get shut!
129 Posted 22/09/2010 at 17:47:01
If we lose to Fulham, I would like to see him leave. Enough is enough.
130 Posted 22/09/2010 at 17:57:57
Otto you may have something with that comment.......
131 Posted 22/09/2010 at 17:20:22
Its bad enough we appear to be intent on becoming Coventry City or Southampton, a half empty Tesco Express stadium trumpeting our ignominy in the Championship would be the absolute end.
A footnote to the full circle of Walter Smith - David Moyes - Walter Moyes situation.
Noticeably, it is no longer deemed a surprise if we get turned over by Brentford nor is it newsworthy we could end up relegated.
132 Posted 22/09/2010 at 17:57:39
133 Posted 22/09/2010 at 18:04:33
Adding more fight to performances is usually the rallying cry of a team in crisis not one with ambition, and nor should we accept it after the amount of time that Moyes has been at the club.
To be in this position of having one striker, (I dont include Saha in the equation, nor Beckford who if he does have any level of success with us it wont be any time soon) and no right sided midfielder is nothing short of criminal.
134 Posted 22/09/2010 at 18:04:44
Imagine my sadness tonight as my eldest girl, goes to bed for the first time in a West Ham nightie, she has told me Everton are rubbish, Moyes you have a lot to answer for, pass me a tissue someone.
135 Posted 22/09/2010 at 18:16:02
136 Posted 22/09/2010 at 17:34:44
The criticisms aimed at moyes are not founded solely on the last six games. It's like his advocates all have selective memory loss. He's survived comfortably and not faced any real pressure from the fans during previous piss poor patches which would have seen the managers of other clubs come under severe pressure.
1) The season we finished 17th with the lowest points total in living memory and fallings out with several players, including Stubbs, Rooney and Ferguson.
2) The total capitulation of the team following elimination from the Champions League qualifiersand an atrocious thrashing (1-5) in the Uefa cup. Terrible league form followed, including 0-4 spankings by West Brom and Bolton, and continued up until a lucky last minute win against Sunderland on New Years day.
3) End of the 2007-08 campaign where, following a 3-1 win against Portsmouth and with Everton sitting in 4th place and looking a lot better than the RS, the team went on to spectacularly blow any chance of Champions League qualification with a run in of 1 win in 8 league games. Moyes was clueless how to deal with the situation and the team only just scraped qualification for the Uefa Cup with a win against Newcastle in the last game of the season.
4) Start of the 2008-09 season. Moyes spent the summer dodging questions about signing a new contract and moaning about how his small squad weren't in any shape to win games in the Premier League. Like neither of those situations were fuck all to do with him! A crap start ensued with the team sitting 16th in late October, having also been knocked out of the 1st round of the Uefa cup by Standard Liege and the 3rd round of the Carling Cup by Blackburn.
5) The start of last season which saw a 1-6 thrashing from Arsenal, defeats by the mighty Burnley, Hull and Bolton and a 0-7 aggregate defeat at the hands of Benfica. 4 wins from 18 league games up until Boxing day. Shite.
6) Here we go again...
137 Posted 22/09/2010 at 18:44:08
Don't agree with jumping on the Moyes Out bandwagon, he's done a lot for this club and when we were on a fantastic run last season where were you lot then slagging off the style of play, the tactics??? People seem all too quick to jump on his back when times are crap, yet I bet you were chanting his name last season, hypocrites!!!
Although I've got to agree I'm becoming increasingly frustrated with the constant decision to select Osman, and the obvious waste of money on Bily, surely a club in our position can't waste that sort of money on utter shite, Moyes has made mistakes and is sometimes too stubborn for his own good, he needs to drop Osman and give Coleman a shot on the wing, Fellaini DM and lets get two forwards up there with Coleman flying down the wing!
I have every faith in Moyes to pull us out of this, what I don't have faith in is the Board and Bill's 'search' for investment ? what a load of crap that is!!
And theres absolutely no-one out there I'd want to take over from David Moyes... Mark Hughes ? fuck off!!!!
138 Posted 22/09/2010 at 19:00:43
139 Posted 22/09/2010 at 20:21:01
140 Posted 22/09/2010 at 20:26:57
I'd only just stopped laughing at the mere suggestion that 'Olly' (as he's known to his mates on Sky Sports) becoming Everton manager when I read the above response.
Last night was bad but hang on... Holloway?? Martinez???? I really think not!!
141 Posted 22/09/2010 at 19:59:17
Meanwhile, we are left with a manager who fails to learn the most basic of lessons ? how hard is it to pick the correct players for the correct positions. People ask who should replace Moyes ? well how about any one of the thousands of armchair fans on the internet who can clearly see the mistakes this man makes every week?
Irrespective of the protestations of the Brady bunch, Moyes is not the man to take us anywhere near the league title. Even if he had money he'd probably still play Messi at centre half, and keep Osman in right midfield.
142 Posted 22/09/2010 at 21:04:38
This is the same manager and the same players that we were convinced we were going to have a serious challenge on the top four.. Sack Moyes after 5 PL games and a cup exit, do me a favour.
There is a reason why David Moyes is held in such high regard by people in football, and this is due to the fantastic job done by him at Everton without a pot to piss in...
People on here talking about Martin Oneil as a replacement? Why, what has he done for Villa that Moyes hasn't for Everton, apart from spend a shit load more cash???
We are all frustrated by Evertons start, this was our chance and yet again we are fucking it up for ourselves, maybe we should start by having a proper pre-season, and stop playing friendlies against shite teams in Australia and America, and begin the season in a competative frame of mind!!
143 Posted 22/09/2010 at 20:56:46
Any new manager who has little / no money to spend would soon find its impossible to match expectations with reality.
Where your anger should be directed though is towards Kenwright. Everton through and through he may be but until he gives up his train set then we have no hope in competing. I.e. If Kenwright had given DM a budget of say £15m in the summer rather than nothing, would he have signed a league one and unknown portugese striker with it. I think not. Sack the board.
144 Posted 22/09/2010 at 21:55:43
145 Posted 22/09/2010 at 22:06:05
146 Posted 22/09/2010 at 22:17:55
147 Posted 23/09/2010 at 00:26:27
148 Posted 23/09/2010 at 01:11:02
I also usually like, and always respect, what you say; that is, except for the premature abuse ejaculation toward the manager.
I just believe in this team. It's the first one that I can genuinely defend, in terms of individual ability, when in an argument with my redshite mates.
149 Posted 23/09/2010 at 09:05:38
150 Posted 23/09/2010 at 19:53:18
Seriously, who are these cretins??
151 Posted 24/09/2010 at 09:04:21
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