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Pienaar: Stay or go?

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I have been hearing of rumours of a cut price deal for Pienaar (to Spurs) in January and wanted to weigh up the pros and cons to the deal.

He is undoubtedly a great footballer and one of our better players. If we were to turn the tables and say for a few million, we could have a class player for 6 months, we would take it. But in my opinion only if we are 'challenging'.

To my mind there is little point in keeping him; what he brings to the team will not bridge the gap to top 4 or possibly even the Europa League. We could also use the second half of the season as preparation for the life after...

Anyone else think we should just take the few million for him (transfer & wages) and make do?
Brett Bradshaw, Preston     Posted 23/09/2010 at 12:58:42

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John Keating
1   Posted 23/09/2010 at 14:59:53

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I thought we should have offloaded him pre season.
He has had long enough to mull over the offer.
If he, or anyone else at the club are not happy then ship em out asap.
Its a bit late in the day now as it seems both he and the club have reached an impasse in what each side thinks he's worth.
I would rather get 50 quid for him in January than nought in the summer.
Anand Rabheru
2   Posted 23/09/2010 at 15:10:38

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John, where have you heard hes not happy at the club as all ive heard from him is how happy he is at the club and how he wants to stay here! The only reason he is not signing is (from what I have heard) the length of the contract! I think he is arguably our most (definately top 2/3) players and should be getting a contract on par (or bloody close to) with Arteta got!
John Keating
3   Posted 23/09/2010 at 15:17:13

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Anand, get real, if you were in talks with your employer for 6 months or more regarding employment. Your future undecided. Your employer ? apparently ? undervaluing what you think you're worth. Are you really telling me you'd be happy??

As for what players say to us and the media ? well in my opinion it's just a load of shit. We've been hearing numerous players coming out in recent weeks telling us that they'll soon turn it round, that they are too uptight, not relaxed enough, need more bite in midfield etc etc. Look where all these knowledgeable comments have got us ? nowhere.

In this day and age and with these financial restraints we all bear if Pienaar is so happy staying at the club then he should sign on the line or piss off to greener fields. The shit we've witnessed so far this season then we the supporters should be getting refunds!

Ian McDowell
4   Posted 23/09/2010 at 15:33:17

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I personally think we would miss Pienaar more than anyone else, even Arteta, but if we are hanging round mid-table in Jan then we should sell if he hasn't signed his contract.
Anand Rabheru
5   Posted 23/09/2010 at 15:35:02

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John, not disagreeing with a lot you have said there, every week we hear the same old crap from Neville, Osman, Arteta (since hes become skipper) and Moyes and ultimately the buck lies with Moyes coz of his bollocks formations, tactics and selections.

Yes, the players should be doing better on the pitch and having a bit of pride and passion for the shirts they are wearing as, at the moment, the lack of passion and pride, they should fuck off across the park... but trying not to get side-tracked, in regards to Pienaar, one thing we get from him is consistency.

Yes, he hasn't been great this season but he's continuously trying to get involved and in the game. Pienaar likes passing the ball quickly and moving to get space and get the return ball and I've noticed this season (and the last couple) that he's getting frustrated coz 1) too many players are too slow (with the ball); 2) too many players lose the ball etc. I am seeing the frustration in Fellaini as well but at least Pienaar is still working hard to try and do something! He aint being a twat like Lescott was last season and just wasn't interested.


"If you were in talks with your employer for 6 months or more regarding employment. Your future undecided. Your employer - apparently - undervaluing what you think youre worth. Are you really telling me you'd be happy??" Pienaar has nothing to lose here. It's a win-win situation for him. Whether he is happy or not, at least he is coming out and saying the right things unlike his twat of an agent, or unlike Lescott or Rooney when they were linked away!

Duncan McDine
6   Posted 23/09/2010 at 15:45:02

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Totally agree with Ian (4). He's worth the wages, so get him signed up.
Anthony Hughes
7   Posted 23/09/2010 at 15:38:44

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I'm split on this one a little, part of me says sell him In Jan and get what we can, if he doesn't want to sign fuck him (if there are any takers), on the other hand if we lose him we will have to replace him and as he is a good player i think it will be difficult to find somebody on the budget we have. We have failed to sort the right side out for years we can't end up with nothing on the left either.
Tony J Williams
8   Posted 23/09/2010 at 16:08:03

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Consistency my fecken arse! He has had one good game this season against ManUre.
Nelaj Behajiha
9   Posted 23/09/2010 at 16:16:37

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Pienaar is vital without him we will be certianly relegated he's far better than Arteta and is the only player in the team with the exception of Fellaini that puts in any effort.
John Lindsay
10   Posted 23/09/2010 at 16:21:15

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If we are short of cash to pay Pienaar's increased wage demands then fuck Bily off and give his wages to Pienaar. What a useless waste of space Bily is. Would rather see a kid from the reserves play than him!!!!!
Anand Rabheru
11   Posted 23/09/2010 at 16:23:48

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Well said Ian (4), Duncan (6), Nelaj (9). Tony (8), as I said, he has not had a great season so far, but his work rate is consistent and he is trying to get involved in the games...hes not shying away!
Shaun Brennan
12   Posted 23/09/2010 at 16:33:03

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Niether Arteta or Pienarr score enough goals to warrant the size of their contracts. But thats not the issue.

As far as I am aware there is a contract there for him. If he was to sign it then great. If not, by January get rid.

This season is already turning into a disaster so him leaving is not biggie.
GJ Butler
13   Posted 23/09/2010 at 16:46:53

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In my opinion, Peinaar is overated and doesn't score anywhere near enough for a player with his attacking qualities.

However, the reason he is overated is because he is still by far out best footballer, took on the weight of the team during Artetas njury, and whether having a bad game or not, can still be seen to be at least trying. And get this - he knows it. He is fully entitled to ask for what Arteta is getting. Is there anybody in the squad capable of replacing him? Noone even close. And how much would it cost to replace him? More than we have for sure.

So as much as I would love to say let him go, he isn't good enough to move us to the next level (insert 'what, move us out of the relegation zone?' jokes here), unfortunately right now, he's the best we've got. Sign him up!
Tony J Williams
14   Posted 23/09/2010 at 16:59:58

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Nelaj, everyone obviously has opinions but relegated without him???
Tony J Williams
15   Posted 23/09/2010 at 17:02:44

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Forgot to add, he has been in all our games so far, so this relegation saver isn't exactly living up to your title is he?
GJ Butler
16   Posted 23/09/2010 at 17:04:04

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Tony, Nelaj also said Fellaini is putting effort in, so take the entire comment with a pinch of salt. Sorry Nelaj!
Ray Roche
17   Posted 23/09/2010 at 17:28:20

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I think we'd miss more than just Pienaar's own performances, he brings a lot to Baines's game as well as linking up with Arteta in the middle. Half the problem is that he's too quick,mentally, for half the team.How much would it cost to replace him? And how much would that Cockney effin Spiv 'Arry offer for him?
John McLoughlin
18   Posted 23/09/2010 at 18:35:20

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He's only vital to us because our squad is so unbalanced. He is the only player capable of doing a decent job and thats all it is out wide. If we didnt have 8 players who play in the middle of midfield and only 1 who is can play out wide we would not be so worried. He is a decent player but does not score enough goals for someone who sees so much of the ball.
Lee Kidd
19   Posted 23/09/2010 at 18:50:52

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If we can get £2-3m for him in January undoubtedly get rid. If he signs a contract, fair enough, but if he goes I won't be overly bothered. Extremely overrated. One good season and everyone thinks he's a messiah, conveniently forgetting how often he squandered possession and ran down blind alleys the season before.

Much as he is doing this season actually.

Arteta is the far superior player and thankfully we have him signed up.
Ged Dwyer
20   Posted 23/09/2010 at 19:20:49

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Brett - you must be as mad as Moyes. We've got enough problems without making things worse.
Do you remember how bad we were early on last season when we didn't have Pienaar and Arteta available. Without these two the team really would be in trouble. Let's just pay Pienaar what we now pay Arteta.
What we need to do is get Vaughan back asap and play him, play Coleman right midfield and put Heitinga in the defence. Quite simple really but something too complicated for our simple manager!
Chris Hannon
21   Posted 23/09/2010 at 19:28:57

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If he doesn't sign by January and say he signs a pre-contract somewhere, he is clearly not gonna put the effort in, and we may well need more effort in the second half of the season etc... so why not say to Harry £1 million plus Bentley on loan with a view to a permanent deal? Then you have got a player of a good quality playing for a contract who will put it in and benifit the team a lot more!
Gerry Western
22   Posted 23/09/2010 at 20:17:53

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I'd have Pienaar ahead of Arteta for the simple reason we've got cover in the middle of the park but few options out wide. We've had ample opportunities to see Arteta in a wide position, he constantly struggles to beat the first man.

Pienaar however, can play centre or out wide. As long as he's not asking for more than anyone else I'd happily offer the contract. As for whether he's worth it I guess we'll learn that in January. If he moves, clearly someone will have met his valuation and wage demands. My guess would be he'll have no problem finding a club willing to accommodate him.
Nelaj Behajiha
23   Posted 23/09/2010 at 20:36:37

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Tony, who do we have to replace him or who would we be able to bring in?. Pienaar is not a superstar but the only play that posseses and attacking intention in our side. Without him I we would be in serious trouble. I agree with you at the end of the season maybe, but not when we're already in serious trouble. Arteta seems to think he is playing defensive midfield at the moment ,so I fail to see any suitable replacments for him in the current side. I don't like Pienaar much for his off field antics but in our current situation it would be total lunacy to sell our best attacking player.
Richard Reeves
24   Posted 23/09/2010 at 20:17:29

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No-one came in for Pienaar before the start of the season because they can get him on the cheap at the end of this one (exactly what Everton would do).

I agree with what Ged says ? Pienaar should be given the same sort of contract as Arteta. In my opinion, Arteta has been our best player for a number of years now but he hasn't been the same since his injury, I actually think Pienaar is looking the better of the two recently although neither have played as good as we've seen before.

It makes sense to give Pienaar his contract as it will also give Everton the option of selling him for a good fee if any offers come in for him. I would definitely NOT get rid of him in January,I mean what's three million ? fuck all! No, give him his contract and if he gets back to his best then we could get good offers for him and then decide wether to sell him or not.

I also agree with Ged about players in their right positions, Heitinga ? centre back; Fellaini ? defensive midfielder; Coleman ? right wing, and why not two strikers for once in a 4-4-2? I feel that if there is any chance of these things happening then it will be after Moyes has stubbornly proved that we can win with the shit formation and choice of players he is continually picking.

Rob Hollis
25   Posted 23/09/2010 at 21:26:15

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Brilliant!
Lets make sure Pienaar leaves. That will balance the team. Fuck all on the left or right.
Roy Coyne
26   Posted 24/09/2010 at 00:10:26

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I would rather have Pienaar for the rest of the season than a £2-3 million fee what would we get for that, that's if Bill has not ring-fenced it.
Andy Morden
27   Posted 24/09/2010 at 00:24:00

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Pienaar, for all the bile expelled on these hallowed pages over the summer about being an 'uncaring mercenary' (I'm paraphrasing) has been extremely professional this season. His contract may be running out, but I see him giving as much effort as ever.

On the debate about him being as important as Arteta / less important. Weeeeell... He is important, but for different reasons. They are different players. Both skillful, but Arteta dictates the game when on the ball, Pienaar's give and go / non stop movement game equally contributes to Everton's passing game when we are in full flow. As for goals, well, they aren't always the most important thing from a midfielder are they? Thin about Roy Keane - hardly prolific...
Lee Kidd
28   Posted 24/09/2010 at 05:48:46

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Sorry, silly comparison with Roy Keane, who played in a deep midfield position as an enforcer. Pienaar should make and score more goals than he does where he plays.
Chris Fisher
29   Posted 24/09/2010 at 10:00:52

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So if he went, who do we play instead? Ok Bily isn't too bad but then it basically means Osman will definitely play and that is not good! If Pienaar leaves, we will need to sign someone straight away to replace him!!!!!
Danny Burke
30   Posted 24/09/2010 at 10:20:52

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The best scenario would be for Pienaar to sign a new contract with us. To offload him in January we would only get peanuts for ...erm Peanuts, will Awwy turkey neck really want to pay good money, No. Now we have kept him over the summer we should keep him until the end of the season. He is vital to any joined up play we have, he brings the best out of other players especially Baines, his workrate is immense and while he maybe should get more goals he is certainly a good provider. He also is the only player who can break with the ball at any real pace, was involved in the break at the end vs Utd, and his goal obviously, also at the Emirates last season just as a few examples. He may not be Usain Bolt but his acceleration to his top pace is awesome and combined with his stature he can spin and get away form players with ease.

Oh, and Bentley, better player? No more drugs for that man!
Eric Myles
31   Posted 24/09/2010 at 10:52:10

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John #10, Bily will be Pienaar's replacement if he goes.
Anthony Hughes
32   Posted 24/09/2010 at 10:52:37

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Pienaar's acceleration to top pace is awesome? Slight exaggeration i think. He can carry the ball quickly but he ain't no flying machine.
Anthony Hughes
33   Posted 24/09/2010 at 10:59:08

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Due to lack of any other option Bily probably would be Pienaar's replacement out wide. No pace and no workrate, poor Bainesey going be goosed covering that part of the pitch.
Chris Perry
34   Posted 24/09/2010 at 11:42:13

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Posts 10 + 30, ? Bily scored more goals last season than most of the useless twats in this team, they were also screamers and were a changing point in a game, e.g 3 points v Man Utd and 3 against Pompey to name but 2.
Danny Burke
35   Posted 24/09/2010 at 12:50:50

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Pienaars acceleration to his top pace IS awesome. His top speed may not be as good as Lennon or Walcott but he reaches his top speed rapidly, and that is my point. He can therefore with his small centre of gravity turn and be away from his marker in a flash, he may not streak away from them but he makes time for himslef. Therefore no Anthony, it is not an exaggeration.
Anthony Hughes
36   Posted 24/09/2010 at 13:04:58

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Sorry Danny got disagree, the word Awesome describes something which is stunning,amazing,fantastic. Pienaar's acceleration isn't any of them. If it was he would occassionally go past a fullback on the out side and cross the ball in from a much more dangerous position, how many times can we say he does that?
As i said he can carry the ball quickly but sometimes some of us fans may overate our players, the constant use of the phrase world class is a joke in relation to its use sometimes. I think i heard Fellaini being described as the best midfielder in Europe at one point.Yes we have good players but lets take it easy with the over exhuberant adjectives.

Duncan McDine
37   Posted 24/09/2010 at 13:07:56

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Spot on Danny... his speed to change direction and make space to get that pass away to Baines is awesome. He's worth the wages. Give him the money.

On a seperate note, seeing as we have bugger all on the right side of midfield, I'd actually like to see Mikkey back out there. I know vertually everyone will disagree, but he has much more opportunity to be creative out there. He'll give the right-back plenty of chances to get on the overlap, and more importantly, will pick him out if the move is on. Osman thankfully won't be playing tomorrow, so lets see someone claim his place, and keep hold of it.

Come on Blue Boys... time for 3 points at the Cottage tomorrow.
Sean McCarthy
38   Posted 24/09/2010 at 13:56:01

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".......He is undoubtedly a great footballer ....." Err..I dont think so!! Good yes but great?? Its a 'no' from me. Great players can shoot!!! Pienaar cant!!
Tony J Williams
39   Posted 24/09/2010 at 13:58:35

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Sean, don't forget that great players can also put a decent cross in too.
Jamie Morgan
40   Posted 24/09/2010 at 14:07:03

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I actually want to see if Piennar can operate on the right instead of left side, let Billy have a go on left, natural left foot and Baines to help him. While Piennar tries to work with whoever is playing right back.

Pienaar is naturally right footed afterall.
I would like to see them attack with a central striker and Cahill behind. With Arteta providing, Felli covering.

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