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I kind of knew this would happen...

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I knew we would get a big win today. It was well, well, overdue. We kind of all knew it was going to happen. Birmingham?s mighty 18-month unbeaten home record, to me anyway, never ever looked fearsome or daunting. Nor did it look so to David Moyes or the Everton players.

I have patiently bitten my tongue all week, and more so, all season. The season where we were supposed to push on and challenge the Sky Four. The season where we were supposed to battle the millionaire spending power of City, and the well tuned machine that is Tottenham.

I write this as a relieved Evertonian, but also as an angry one. Those who were, and maybe still are, calling for a new manager and a shake up on the training pitch, I hope are a little humbled tonight. How dare people question the attitude of the players and the coach at the helm? Are people serious about their claims that we were....are ..... in a relegation fight after six games?.....

?No, It?s ok now. We got that first big win, we?ll be ok. We?ll do the red shite next week and we can start dreaming about 6th spot again.....? No.... we did not get the win on the opening day at Blackburn that we all expected.... No... we did not get as many of the ?X? amount of points I as an armchair coach expected by this stage. But... we turned over Birmingham at St Andrews, something no team has managed for 18 months, and we should have turned over Fulham seven days ago a their home ground, again, somewhere no teams goes and just walks away with points..... and if we had taken one of the many guilt-edged chances we created we would be sitting a little more pretty in the league table....and a higher and mightier in the "i know when to sack the manager stakes" that so many of the fans seem to think they have a right to.

I will quote you directly from the Oxford English dictionary on the word fickle.... ? If you describe someone as fickle, you disapprove of them because they keep changing their mind about what they like or want?. The greatest fans in the world or the most fickle fans in the world? I ask you?

If we?d lost today, no doubt the Sunday papers would be rubbing their hands at the prospect of Owen Coyle or Martin Jol taking over at the helm at Goodison Park. One big win, renewed optimism amongst the real fans and I for one am looking forward to the Derby, a big win and ANOTHER great season under David Moyes? reign.

"But what If we?d lost today Peter...?"
Peter Laverty, London     Posted 02/10/2010 at 18:37:52

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Brian Waring
1   Posted 02/10/2010 at 21:45:40

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Yes Peter, all is rosey in the garden again, or maybe just in your world???
.
Christopher McCullough
2   Posted 02/10/2010 at 21:50:18

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Peter, the tone of your post is unnecessary. People have a right to express their opinions. There's no doubt that Moyes has limitations yet there's no doubt in my mind that the is right man for Everton (with all the pride and ambition that epitomises the club in mind) right now.

I hope you put your wages on a 'big' win as you knew it would happen.
Steve Foster
3   Posted 02/10/2010 at 21:55:56

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You missed something important at the end of the Post Peter, you needed a photo of you, with your thumb on your nose, flapping your fingers around, and giving it a Nah-Nah!

I agree with Christopher, no need for the tone of your post.

Goon
Rob Hollis
4   Posted 02/10/2010 at 22:19:16

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Peter

You carry on dreaming of 6th spot. Easily pleased aren't you.

Buffoon
Steve Pugh
5   Posted 02/10/2010 at 22:24:13

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Yeah we won, good. Just like it was good when we came back to draw against Man U.

Whilst I am pleased that we have got the first win under our belts I am not going to get carried away. 3 wins on the bounce, then I will be a lot more positive,
Micheal Lynch
6   Posted 02/10/2010 at 22:21:45

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Clown our great leader enters a pivitol season without a strike force. He continues to play the most negative football you could watch. Even to-day he takes off the Yak and replaces him with johnny. Invites them to try to score and they nearly did through Boyer. But we should not question him.
Tommy Meehan
7   Posted 02/10/2010 at 22:25:41

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Peter, first of all it was an eighteen game unbeaten run not eighteen months; secondly have you ever read "Dialogue Between Self and Soul," by W. B. Yeats? I think it'd do you a lot of good
Eugene Ruane
8   Posted 02/10/2010 at 22:27:37

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Thank you Mystic Meg.
Ciarán McGlone
9   Posted 02/10/2010 at 22:22:13

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"How dare people question the attitude of the players and the coach at the helm?"

----------------

I got to here and stopped reading. What a ludicrous thing fos someone to write in an article for a discussion forum.

Those who questioned the previous games are not humbled one bit. What an iditoic thing to say.

Todays result was indeed welcome - but it does not change history. It does not change the mistakes made in the previous games. It does not extinguish the validity of the criticisms levelled at those who deserved it. It does not vindicate those who 'bit their tongues' or give them any claim to a lofty position.

This happens everytime there's a bad run..the brady bunch come out of the woodwork after a win as if it's some sort of opportunity to gloat at anyone who offered any criticism. It's a position that defies any logic whatsoever.

We haven't won the league - we have won a good away game..and it wasn't a big win either.

It's a start, but that's all. It certainly isn't a reason for such self-righteous gratification. As fans, we are entitled to criticise factual events - whether you like it or not.... and your frankly childlike butchering of logic has absolutely no bearing on that.
David Booth
10   Posted 02/10/2010 at 22:27:33

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Peter, a note of support for you.

Your opinion is as valid as Steve (Foster's) and Rob's childishly immature ripostes are not.

Everyone is entitled to their views on here without having to put up with such ridiculous insults. Time the moderators stopped such unnecessary and irritating behaviour, which ironically both devalues the author's argument and degrades what is an otherwise excellent site.

That apart, it will be fascinating to see where all those calling for Coyle, Di Matteo, Jol and even Big Joe (bless him), are later in the season.

Because things will clearly not remain as they are.

This is not a team playing without hope or prospects (as under Walter Smith's tenure). He had to go.

Instead, it's a team that still needs one or two pieces of the jigsaw putting in place.

That may well be a right winger and a striker. But I believe what we really need - whoever we may or may not bring in - is to be more ruthless.

The players have got to stand up and be counted. Crucially, they must realise that passing the ball nicely and winning lots of corners is not sufficient.

And please god, today's win gives them the belief they need ahead of facing the worst Gobshite team I have known in all my time as an Evertonian.

There's still a very long way to go and one swallow etc... but a green shoot at last.

So come on you blues.

Actually looking forward to watching MOTD tonight, even though we'll undoubtedly be on last as usual!



John Maxwell
11   Posted 02/10/2010 at 23:14:35

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Lawro was right !
Ian Smitham
12   Posted 02/10/2010 at 23:37:33

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Sorry- to be clear- Dave , have you got a brother called Si and did you live in Sale?

Dennis Stevens
13   Posted 02/10/2010 at 23:36:59

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I suppose when you're the last team in the country to win a game then any win seems "big". A poor & pointless article.
Eugene Ruane
14   Posted 02/10/2010 at 23:38:50

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David Booth, there is more than one way to be insulting.

The most obvious is of course the traditional 'wanker', 'arsehole' etc.

However personally, I prefer this to someone trying to insult my intelligence.

Peter Laverty began his post...

"I knew we would get a big win today".

Fact: No he didn't.

He then enlightened us with the dictionary definition of 'fickle'.

Plus, he used the insulting expression 'real fans' to describe optimists, which infers those not optimistic are not real supporters.

He suggested (nb: on the strength of a win against Birmingham) that those who have questioned Moyes's tactics should feel 'humbled'

Finally, he not only feels Everton supporters have no right (nb: on an Everton supporters website!) to question anything the manager does, he actually says "How dare people"

In my opinion, he's lucky there aren't about 20 posts saying 'fuck off you self-righteous nob-head!'
Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
15   Posted 02/10/2010 at 23:58:57

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Agreed, Dennis: I'd actually decided not to to this original post up as it was so poor, but I forget to put a hold on it and Lyndon has gone ahead and opened it up.

What Peter is saying is simply total bollocks.

"I knew we would get a big win today" ? Bullshit! And it wasn't even a big win. It was a very nervy affair for much of the second half.

"If we had taken one of the many guilt-edged chances we created we would be sitting a little more pretty in the league table." ? this mentality is absolute bollocks and I think such posts deserve to be removed because it is pure fantasy and utterly meaningless. We have to deal with the real world as it is ? anything else is total and utter madness. Once you start saying "if this had happened instead of what did happen, then you'd all be saying something else" ? It's facile, pathetic childish fantasy nonsense.

We say what we do because we observe what we see and we react to that. Anything else that relies on some alternative scenario that did not in fact happen is completely irrelevant and should in no way be used to guide our thinking. If that makes me an absolutist, I'm fine with that. This is not a fantasy football website ? it's primarily about Everton Football club, the games they play with the players they have. Once you go down this pathway, it's a slippery slope to some unlimited world where madness lies.

"How dare people question the attitude of the players and the coach at the helm?" ? Bullshit. That is a fundamental right of fans using this website and anyone posting against the idea is posting against the website itself, and should not be provided with the airspace to post.

Calling Evertonians "fickle" is also utter and total bullshit. It's an accusation that's been annoying me increasingly for a while now: the ease with which fans are described as "fickle". "Knee-jerk" is probably another one along the same lines.

Those bandying these terms about usually like to talk in superior tones about their personal "perspective" and an innate ability to see "the bigger picture".

Here's the reality of football: it unfolds on a generally weekly basis. The game is played; the basic outcome is Win / Draw / Lose... Performance: good, bad, indifferent. Luck: present, absent...

The key point of this is change. Few teams win every week; few teams lose every week. And generally speaking, there is some degree of uncertainty about the next result: will we win, lose or draw? No-one really knows... but plenty like Peter Laverty will tell you they do.

Fans are going to respond to each game, based on the result, the performance, and how things have gone, relative to personal expectations or relative to a general feeling about how we as a team should be doing. When your team is bottom of the league, most fans are going to be upset to one degree to another; conversely, when your team is no longer bottom of the league, you're going to be a bit happier about things.

That change in mood is both entirely natural and understandable, in direct response and proportion to the change in performance and results ? rather than something to be denigrated as "fickle". Most football fans are capable of simultaneously supporting their club while realistically assessing their merits and limitations; same applies to assessing the qualities of the players and the manager, and considering the (essentially hypothetical) question: should the manager stay or go?


I say 'hypothetical' because it is not the fans who make such decisions when things go bad. In the case of Everton, that decision is likely down to Bill Kenwright... in which case, as I've said countless times over the last many years, Moyes is going nowhere and the discussion of such a possibility is thus rendered moot.


Are fans "fickle" to suggest that the manger who has taken his team to the bottom of the Premier League table has perhaps taken the club as far has he can, etc etc (see numerous other threads these last few weeks)? I would say absolutely not. Certainly on ToffeeWeb, Everton fans are both entitled and enabled to to discuss such matters ? for the simple reason that they are fans and that they thus share valid concerns about such things.

And I feel very strongly about this: those who wish to only denigrate such discussion should be banned from participating in it.

Or, more succinctly, what Eugene said!

Derek Thomas
16   Posted 03/10/2010 at 00:12:10

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So lets get this clear, 6 games isn't enough to shout relegation...

But 1 is enough to say it's all A.O.K

Where to next then?? off to B&Q for some paper and paste for these seemingly none existant cracks then.
Dennis Stevens
17   Posted 03/10/2010 at 00:19:25

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In all fairness Michael, I don't think the use of the term "fickle" should be such a sensitive issue in the context Peter has applied it here - in this article it seems to apply to some imaginary characters that Peter has invented & then 'quoted'.
Albert Perkins
18   Posted 03/10/2010 at 00:35:08

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Posting this again cos it needs to be.

This quote is an example of how outsiders view our situation:
Everton, who were unfortunate not to gain that first win at Fulham last weekend, move out of the bottom three and have plenty of time to challenge for the top-six place which is their annual target.

Joe Lovejoy, Guardian.





Also:
it is the threadbare nature of Liverpool's performances that has come as a shock. Scouse traditionalists may insert a joke at this point, to the effect that as long as Everton are even lower in the table Liverpool will never feel the situation is intolerable, but no one is laughing at that one now. Everton are a strong side with a mighty team spirit and will delight their fans more often than they will displease them this season. No one is calling for David Moyes to be sacked. Everton will be all right.
Paul Wilson, Guardian.

Dennis Stevens
19   Posted 03/10/2010 at 00:46:36

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Great idea, Albert! Let's multi-post all responses under every article!
Martin Faulkner
20   Posted 03/10/2010 at 00:40:03

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Peter, I think you're getting a bit ahead of yourself, mate. While a good win, it wasn't exactly Stamford Bridge or The Emirates or Old Trafford, and it took an og from Birmingham to get us our first goal.

It still doesn't address the issues that many on here have expressed, i.e. our strikers couldn't score if they were on a night out with Rooney in a brothel, that the Yak's confidence is shot, he needs to start putting away some of those chances, though his general hold-up play was ok though.

The lads were on tenterhooks for the last 25 mins and can Moyes pull off an overweight tiring striker and put on a younger one with a bit of pace to catch them on the break? No ? on comes a centre-back to play midfield, Bily given exactly 3.5 mins... same old, same old.

Robbie Shields
21   Posted 03/10/2010 at 00:24:55

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Wow Peter, congratulations on writing the worst article I have ever seen on any footballing website. Myself, I kind of knew something too..........that there would be posts of this ilk on here as soon as we won a game.

What you failed entirely to do was assess any of the reasons why we fared better today than in recent matches. Firstly, Fellaini was in his CORRECT position, holding midfield, secondly we had a genuine centre forward upfront, you know, one that can hold the ball up, play people in, be strong and out muscle the opposition. Third, Cahill was back as a half striker, giving much needed support to our lone centre forward. Coleman was on the right and Osman had by his standards a very very good game, you know, the one in 10 we get from him usually against very poor opposition.

Almost all of the above is what the anti Moyes brigade (and I include myself in that group), have been asking for in order to address our poor performances.

If Moyes could get Osman to play 8 good games in 10, then maybe he should be in the starting team every week. Pip was at right back, therefore unable to destroy the midfield, Arteta was in the middle, his best position.

Therefore, in summary, more players in their best positions, better performance, I've said it before, rocket science this football lark you know.

Finally, Birmingham where poor, so poor infact they made Osman look good on the wing. Bigger tests than Birmingham await, let us see where Moyes plays everyone when they are all fit again and if he can do something other than 4-5-1 or 4-4-1-1.
Christopher McCullough
22   Posted 03/10/2010 at 01:02:40

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It?s perfectly natural to balance the bigger picture with immediate desire. That?s pretty much how human beings have expressed themselves since time out of mind.

It isn?t natural to censor your own ?bigger picture? in favour of an exclusively immediate reaction; that is, unless it?s a passionate reaction, an attempt to influence or a game of Devil?s Advocate.

It?s frustrating when intelligent criticisms of Moyes transmogrify into a diatribe without offering realistic alternatives or an acknowledgment their absence.
Rob Hollis
23   Posted 03/10/2010 at 00:32:03

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David Booth

What is childish and immature about replying to an individual who absolutely slates the opinions of those who dared to complain about the Manager when we have been BOTTOM of the league and incapable of threatening the opposing goal in most games.

Whilst a win is very welcome it was BIRMINGHAM CITY which does not exactly make us Kings of Europe. In fact if we reach the heady heights of SIXTH as dreamed of by the author then we will not be doing much in the CL next season either.

I have no doubt we will finish in a respectable position. Respectable sums us up. Final position, acceptance of 'our place' in the pecking order and ultra conservative tactics.

I am sick and tired of us being respectable and respected as club by the likes of Ferguson and Wenger. They respect us because they do not see us as a threat, just a mediocre club doing a bit better than its budget should allow.

We do not want a pat on the head, we want their trophies and CL places. I can't see it coming this season. If everybody shared the ambition of the author then it would never come.

I remember a few years back we played Arsenal at home. We played them off the park. Stunning football, I think the best I have ever seen Tony Hibbert play. Arsenal fouled, scratched, kicked, hoofed the ball upfield, and used every dirty tactic they could to break the game up.

They won 1-4. Respectable no, winners yes.
Eugene Ruane
24   Posted 03/10/2010 at 00:55:07

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Dennis Stevens - "Anyone who posts on TW the dictionary definition of the word fickle, deserves to be described as an idiot"

(nb: the quote above is not mine, it's from someone I invented then quoted).
Mark Stone
25   Posted 03/10/2010 at 01:10:24

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Peter, I agree with you about our potential ... however ... a little a premature! It's only October. Same goes for everybody else, incidently.
James Flynn
26   Posted 03/10/2010 at 01:15:50

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We won!!!! Yahoo! Off the shneid finally. Up the Table we go.

Good game. Good game.
Mark Stone
27   Posted 03/10/2010 at 01:14:15

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Just a quick retort as I can't be arsed going into much detail. Moyes is the most financially efficient manager in the premier league, year after year. In the words of Benitez 'FACT'. To suggest he is not up to the job is rather 'short sighted'. Another manager might be able to enable Everton to finish higher in the premier league ... but he would need huge investment to do so ... and even then I'm unconvinced.
Andrew Keatley
28   Posted 03/10/2010 at 01:31:10

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I think that the silence Peter Laverty kept (despite himself) during the first five games of the season should probably have been kept indefinitely...

That said, the result today was excellent, and so I am not going to take Mr Laverty to task any further (even thought he has somewhat asked for it) - and instead I am going to hope (and quietly believe) for more of the same next Sunday; perhaps that is something we can all agree on.
David Booth
29   Posted 03/10/2010 at 02:02:05

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Ian Smitham: you have an amazing memory. I did indeed.

My brother, you will doubtless also remember, was not as enlightened and supported Leeds.

Where the hell did you come from? Don't recall you being an Evertonian. Great to hear from you.

Rob Hollis: I don't object to their reply in any way whatsoever. What I do take offence at however is the fact they can't present their case without calling the person they were responding to a childish name in the process.

It's time such things were curtailed and edited out. Unless the gentlemen concerned are still at junior school, in which case they can be excused for not knowing better.

James Flynn
30   Posted 03/10/2010 at 02:39:21

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Not to negate anyone's opinion, but EFC won!!!!

We won!! Can I get an electronic High-Five?

Anybody?

We fucking won!
Andy McNabb
31   Posted 03/10/2010 at 04:01:00

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James Flynn. Consider yourself 'high-fived'. Well done, mate for reminding us all that we at last have something positive to reflect on.
Good grief - we do tend on occasion to consume ourselves from the inside out.
Jamie Crowley
32   Posted 03/10/2010 at 04:42:36

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We completely fucked up the beginning of the season by playing players out of position, playing inferior players ahead of others of better talent who rotted on the bench, resorting to ineffectual and late substitutions, not substituting to change the complexion of a game but rolling our either negative or like-for-like substitutions... etc etc.

So being a bit bitter about our start (or lack thereof) isn't being a negative fan or "consuming ourselves from the inside out." It's the reality of banging your head against a brick wall for the 1000th time while you watch the same ineffectual thing unfolding right in front of your eyes time and time again.

I'm damn glad we won as well but there's a pattern that needs to be broken. As Robbie Shield pointed out, we simply played people in their PROPER positions so they can effectively carry out their duties. Something we didn't do for the first 4-5 games. So a little bitterness is understandable.

Can I get a high five?

James - if the Colts start Peyton Manning at WR and lose their first 5 games, then start him at QB and win one, do Colts fans high five one another? Or do they lament the horrible decision which ruined the start to their promising season, and bitch about it all season long?

The latter.

Norman Merrill
33   Posted 03/10/2010 at 07:04:10

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Peter, One thing's for sure: if we had not come away with the pts, I doubt if you would have been on...
I was there, and we deserved to win, but that is just the start. Let's brag when we get six on the bounce.
Jarrod Prosser
34   Posted 03/10/2010 at 07:50:31

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Bottom of the league....
Opponents unbeaten for a year on their patch....
Limited ability to score....
Osman in for our best player....
Lawro tips us for the 'W'....

All things considered, I'll take that result, thanks.
Brian Foley
35   Posted 03/10/2010 at 08:37:54

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Oh dear stick your head over the parrapet here and your going to be shot at, ok my turn.

I watched all the first half on p2p etc and we were on top from the word go, and I really enjoyed it. I couldn't get any connection for the second 45 but just watched it on football first. Birmingham came back into it a little after our opener but we contained them well I thought. The Everton players at last gave me the feeling that they completely understood the mechanics of what they were supposed to do - told to do - took it on board and to a man applied it for the whole game. We were rarely in trouble and I reckon Brum fans will be feeling exactly like we felt after the Newcastle result, the difference being they (Brum) actually lost to a (the) better side. I don't know what Bainsey is on but I would like some, excellent. Fellaini too and Cahill, that boy never gives up.

Robbie 21 - Agree it's no coincidence that every player who began the game today started in their correct position. Coleman may be the one who didn't (if we had a sided player say Donovan) but his youthful exhuberance and almost fearless directness make him a big plus. Arteta looked better too without the armband.

The Everton support behind the goal was magnificent and the numbers too, well done to all who travelled, it made good television, if only for a few seconds at a time. It's what Sky is for.

No prediction for the derby we all get nervous on those days, but I genuinely feel we are a better side than them certainly easier on the eye, just need to get that killer instinct.

ps I have taken a lot of stick in work over THAT 'Pink' kit which I have defensively called 'Dangerous Pink' another half-dozen away wins and maybe that could become official.
Alan Ross
36   Posted 03/10/2010 at 10:56:39

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Clearly not 20/20 vision
Charles King
37   Posted 03/10/2010 at 11:30:32

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Peter, I agree.

Fans who criticise Mr Moyes are dead naughty.
Chris Keher
38   Posted 03/10/2010 at 11:25:28

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I actually lean towards what Peter is saying.

I reckon any Everton fans that call for Moyes' head are an embarrassment. If we were fans of any other club looking in after Everton had sacked Moyes due to fan pressure we would be saying how stupid and fickle Everton fans were. (That's right Kenrick - FICKLE. The reason you have heard that word a lot recently might be because it is applicable??)

I am not living in denial Moyes is not perfect but then no manager is but I think we struck gold in signing him all those years ago.

I know he can make mistakes but the man has integrity, passion and desire. He has assembled a very good squad on a shoe string and has the dressing room pretty much in his pocket.

Get off his case. He deserves each and every one of us to get behind him.

I seem to hear the comment "he has taken us as far as he can" every season and every season he takes us further. Even last year - I know we did worse in the competitions overall but injuries blah blah and by the end of the season it felt that we had come further and were a better team.

Peter - you though are as bad as the anti-Moyes brigade and have gone completely over the deep-end. One extreme to another.
Mike Green
39   Posted 03/10/2010 at 11:24:01

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Peter - I undertand your sentiments but you've done yourself no favours in the way you've expressed them.

Yesterdays result was the tonic we were all looking for but it was a slimline, slightly flat one rather than a full fat one with double Tanqueray - if you get my drift.

At 1-0 with ten minutes to go I said on the live feed that winning 1-0 off an OG just wasn't good enough and was chuffed we managed a goal in open play - albeit the last kick - just to draw a line under that doubt.

I put £20 on us winning 2-1 at 11-1 but hoped more than knew we were going to win. I didn't back the win as we were favourites which I thought was questionable value given BCFC's organisation, fight and home record.

We are getting there BUT we still have not sorted out how we are going to score goals - we need an injection of pace and as one poster above says to discover a ruthless streak we've never really had under Moyes - so I dont expect to see either of these things soon.

So -= shoots of recovery, yes, but yesterday was a start rather than an arrival.

A good performance and convincing win against LFC WILL be a full fat tonic with treble Tanqueray - one I look forward to drinking in a fortnights time.
Steve Pugh
40   Posted 03/10/2010 at 11:47:57

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Rob Hollis, you make it sound like beating Birmingham at St Andrews is something that we should expect. Have Liverpool won at St Andrews in the last 12 months, no, have United, no, has anyone, no. If we had come out with a draw I would say so what, they have lots of draws, but we are the only team to win in the league at St Andrews for over a year, that is special, and Birmingham are not a small club, they are a top 10 club, Everton FC have no right to win any games, but certainly not one of the top 10 teams in the Premier League over the last few years.
Rob Hollis
41   Posted 03/10/2010 at 12:25:32

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Steve

I do expect us to beat Birmingham.

James Cadwaladr
42   Posted 03/10/2010 at 12:40:46

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Peter. Alls when then Peter! Own goal and a second in the 93rd minute.

Whilst its great to finally get a win (last of the 92 league teams to do) The above would suggest that the same issues still stand!

Clown!
Lee Kidd
43   Posted 03/10/2010 at 13:02:11

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What a God-awful post this is. I agree with what Michael Kenrick said above - basically, although Moyes got it "sort of" tactically right today by going negative, if the situation had called for Moyes going positive he wouldn't have done so. Once again, Moyes excels in his backs to the wall role - but he cannot get consistent results when considered a favourite.

The season is already ruined barring a complete miracle (like fifteen wins on the bounce) so, no, it's not going to be "another" great season - it's going to be "another" season of mediocrity, if we're lucky.
Tony J Williams
44   Posted 03/10/2010 at 13:14:15

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Stupid post Peter. Would you have posted something if we had lost saying "I though we would win but I was wrong"

As most people say on here, hindsight is a wonderful thing and you should have posted before the game saying that we would win. You had a one in three chance of being right.

Good win against a team that seems to have modeled itself on the way we used to be.

Also, Neville gets back, our captain, and we haven't conceded - coincidence?

Also Pienaar misses his first game and we win - coincidence? (tongue firmly in cheek)
Sam Hoare
45   Posted 03/10/2010 at 17:28:56

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I kind of feel where you're coming from Peter though think you've not quite expressed it right.

Certainly I felt as though yesterday had been coming even if i didn't have your cyrstal ball.

Afraid i agree with the fickle comments and not sure how MK can get upset about it. Most football fans are fickle by nature of the shifting fortunes of clubs and the passion invested by their followers. I understand that, but do feel that people calling for Moyes head after 6 games are going too far.
Dean Adams
46   Posted 03/10/2010 at 18:30:35

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If we are in a relegation battle, then by the same logic WBA and Blackpool are chasing a Euro place. Lets see how accurate that turns out to be. For me, we can still challenge the top four, its a long season and there will be plenty of twists, both ways!!
You are somewhat right though Peter, but all this name calling and passing personal comments about each other just detracts from the agreed facts!

Most if not all of us want players in their best positions and a more attacking tactic from the manager from the start of each game. We all hope that this will turn the performances in to victories with increasing style and panache! Anyone feel differently?

Alan Clarke
47   Posted 04/10/2010 at 07:59:29

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I actually think we'll win the league now.

Also, do you think we should sign that Roger Johnson as a striker in January? He has far more clue where the goal is than any of our players.
Tony J Williams
48   Posted 04/10/2010 at 10:12:01

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Obviously apart from Cahill Alan.
Matthew Mackey
49   Posted 04/10/2010 at 10:03:22

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Peter;- It was a good result (much needed) and a pretty good performance though I would say we still need more cutting edge up front (stating the bleedin obvious!)

One Swallow doesn't make a summer but on this occasion two would be the best summer for a long time !

On that point, when we go head to head with the RS in two weeks time I hope to God we don't lower our standards to theirs like we did last time. Trying to kick shit out of each other never seems to achieve much for us as somehow they always seem to get the decisions (ref Oct '07). If we play to our potential and resist the RS temptation to lower the tone then I believe we can/will get something out of the game. The shite are getting desperate and as such will no doubt come out all guns blazin, - so keep calm, keep ya heads and keep the ball on the floor! Then we will achieve.

This is the gospel of the lord .......

Steve Collins
50   Posted 04/10/2010 at 11:37:26

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You know considering we have the Shite and Spurs up next, it's a bit premature to say all is good.

I am not sure what Peter is smoking but he needs to put it down. What garbage!!

Now if we take 6 from our next two then ok maybe we are on the road to recovery but, until then, enough with the madness!
Tony J Williams
51   Posted 04/10/2010 at 12:37:08

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Steve, it's just the opposite of the maddness some posters are putting in their posts, in that we were apparantly in a relegation battle after just 6 games.

The "I told you so" tone has been prevalent in many posts of late but it's a bit early either way.
Ernie McAllister
52   Posted 04/10/2010 at 21:18:33

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I'd have to say once again the apologists are trying to escape from the cracks and making up excuses at will because of one pretty lucky win we had last week.

I don't know how to describe it in the second half, but it was not pretty.

Big deal we got a win. It should not be papered over by broken glasses that need replacing. We have 6 points from a realistic total of at least 12 points maybe more.

There are serious problems at Everton Football Club at present and 1 win is not going to change much of anything. We have lost so much ground that even attempting to go for champs league next year has got to be completely over now.
In which case for me this season is now over.
Everton FC should attempt to win things not get battered because we have a inferior manager. Inferior in this case means huge deficiencies. Ie Tactically retarded. Can't see and attempt to changes matches, when he does he makes things worse.
Puts subs on with less than 10 mins to go just for the sake of it?
All players out of position? He has so many deficiencies that he shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a premier league team.
The team played inspite of moyse not because of him rings true now as it did under old walter..
David Price
53   Posted 04/10/2010 at 22:41:06

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Peter i think you suffered a Robert Green to the media moment there fella.
Most fans are behind Moyes and nearly all recognise the job he has done.
There's no point criticising people with a differing opinion as it only leads to some of the replies you have recieved.
Saturday was a good day, a deserved win and a performance similar to each away game so far.
We are not as bad as some fans think we are but also not as good either.
Moyes, i think realised a few things that needed putting right.
Coleman, Fellani etc, hard to fathom the delay as plenty of fans were pleading for these changes and consequently the doubts arise on his stewardship.
There's a hell of a lot of football knowledge and sense posted on here so it's only fair to debate if in disagreement ,conversely , rather than ridicule or deformation.
The team still owe us after being fans of a team bottom of the league for a week, beating RS is a requirement for that payback to begin, beating Birmingham for me was an about bloody time boys sort of feeling.
Tony J Williams
54   Posted 04/10/2010 at 23:12:33

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What excuses are they then Ernie? Most posters are simply saying it's too early for such pessimism that's all.

Things have gone tits up of late but most would be a lot more worried if we were playing gash and losing, we weren't, we were bossing games but losing due to the lack of firepower upfront..not an excuse but a cold hard fact. (apart from the dire Newcastle game)

However, the same way you get the screamers shouting for Moyes's head and proclaiming armageddon etc, the same ones are suggesting that we shouldn't celebrate too much over a win against a side no one has beaten at home for year.

We need to celebrate because it's the first time this year in the league that we have had a chance to and in the same vein as their constant doom and gloom, we see the silver lining and grasp at it whilst we can.

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