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Recompense

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Regardless of what we think of Jagielka's performance this season ? and it has been pretty so-so to say the least, he was picked for the present England squad. He is an integral part of our team and now, on England duty, he's injured.

This may affect, big-style, our team/selection ? not only for the derby but for other games. What compensation, if any, do we get from the FA... and is it adequate?

Yes he may get injured training at Finch Farm, and that's tough, but he didn't. Some of us like the lads playing internationals... some don't. This is one reason not to.
John Keating, Everton     Posted 08/10/2010 at 21:20:09

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Derek Thomas
1   Posted 09/10/2010 at 09:02:30

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And the silver lining is that Johnny H might get back to his, imo, best position.

Then with Neville at RB freeing up midfield places for proper mid fielders

Coleman, Fellaini, Arteta, Osman as the elastic diamond.

Cahill or Bily depending on fitness, in the hole and the yak up front.

I could live with that, with the worry that yet again it takes injuries to force upon Moyes, a workable formation that has sq pegs in sq holes.
Tony Cheek
2   Posted 09/10/2010 at 09:21:59

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And the list gets longer , Pienaar , Jags , Anichebe , Saha , Rodwell........Deja vu 09/10....Those bleeding hamstrings, dont professional footballers know that you have to have a gentle warm up before sprinting and full training . Why is that so difficult. We had no end of Hamstring injuries last season . Should be avoidable.
Trevor Lynes
3   Posted 09/10/2010 at 10:43:46

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Jags out for a month is a big blow and he along with the absence of Pienar, Saha, Anichebe and Rodwell is going to sorely try our team in escaping the 'dog fight' at the bottom of the league.
Other teams like Chelsea, Man Utd , Man city and Spurs have large squads of first class players and are better able to weather the inevitable injury and suspension situations.
It just highlights the lack of investment and foresight of our board....and this is not a new modern predicament.
Even when winning championship trophies in the past we have always allowed our teams to break up and we have never attempted to create success in the long term.
So long as ambition is missing and investment a pipe dream then we cannot expect much more than survival.......
Brian Lawlor
4   Posted 09/10/2010 at 10:51:52

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Heitinga for Jags. Job done.
Ray Robinson
5   Posted 09/10/2010 at 10:56:44

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And yet nobody manages Torres better than Jagielka ..... Hopefully, Torres is out too.
Sam Hoare
6   Posted 09/10/2010 at 11:26:57

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Trevor (no. 3) ? I would say that it speaks pretty highly of our squad depth when our best CB gets injured and a World Cup Finalist CB can step right in.

Think we will miss Jags but Johnny was arguably our best defender all last season.
Matt Compton
7   Posted 09/10/2010 at 11:48:53

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I have to say this could be a blessing in disguise in someways. In a derby game the atmosphere is on knife edge, none more so when we're expected to win.

I think with Heitinga's distribution and as long as Distin behaves himself it'll result in us keeping the ball even more and keeping the pressure on a poor Liverpool side.
Iain Love
8   Posted 09/10/2010 at 11:56:39

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Jags got injured in training, whether he was training with us or with England you would still want him to train.

I agree with the above that, with Jagielka's injury, Moyes will be forced to play Heitinga in his best position and, although I think Jags is a better defender, Heitinga playing the ball out of defence makes us a better team. It does piss me off that it takes injuries to make Moyes pick the right side.

Tony J Williams
9   Posted 09/10/2010 at 12:12:57

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How is Johnny replacing Jags the right side? Most have been screaming for a Jags and Johhny partnership, not one with Distin.
Dick Fearon
10   Posted 09/10/2010 at 12:10:20

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Cahill was suubed at the 75 minute mark: Australia 1 Paraguay 0. Tim played well, his usual hammer-and-tongs game. He appeared not to be injured though he was on the recieving end of some over vigorous tackles from dirty Paraguay (26 fouls).
Ray Roche
11   Posted 09/10/2010 at 12:15:18

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I've said before that if International teams had to pay the players' wages while they are on International duty and also for the duration of any injury they may get whilst on that duty then there would be fewer international matches, and certainly fewer worthless friendlies. There would also be a massive rethink by the African nations regarding AFCON being played in the middle of the European seasons.
Nick Entwistle
12   Posted 09/10/2010 at 13:56:45

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Yeah Ray, those Africans getting in the way of us European good christian white folk...
John Gee
13   Posted 09/10/2010 at 14:26:58

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Nick Entwistle (no.12), so having the opinion that the AFCON is badly timed makes somebody a racist?

African football authorities are shooting themselves in the foot by staging the AFCON in the middle of domestic seasons all over the world. All these internationals should be in the close season. The domestic seasons could be condensed without these break to make room for it.

Is Jags really out of the derby? Let's hope somebody breaks creasehead's leg in Tuesday's game.
Christopher McCullough
14   Posted 09/10/2010 at 14:48:19

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It's funny how even the possiblity of remark being interpreted as racist is questioned (rightly so) while the promotion of greavous bodily harm on a Liverpool player is, seemingly, unworthy of a footnote (again, rightly so). It just amuses me.

I agree that this could be a blessing in disguise. I think that Heitinga and Distin are a well balanced pairing for reasons that have been elaborated numerously on this forum.

In the long run, this could be a classic case of Moyes playing his best players (Jagielka and Heitinga) in their best positions through no fault of his own.
Alex Kociuba
15   Posted 09/10/2010 at 14:53:28

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There is no AFCON until 2012 anyway. And how are African football authorities kicking themselves in the foot?
Fran Mitchell
16   Posted 09/10/2010 at 14:58:10

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Actually, staging the Afcon in January is great for the competition. How many people watch it? Quite a few, considering. If it was helld in the summer, it would receive little to no recognition, so viewing figures would be down, thus sponsorship deals would be less. All the bad press they get for Chelsea losing Drogba etc is one big avertisement, for 6months 'Watch Drogba and Co in the Afcon this January'..

Also... how is Jags getting injured in a Euro qualifier training session linked to the Afcon?

I still believe, like with Rugby an Cricket, that domestic play shoull not be susended when there is an international game. This would encourage cubs not to have a squad of 25 internationals, but a blend. It would help create a more level playing field.
Ray Roche
17   Posted 09/10/2010 at 15:26:50

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Nick Entwistle
"Yeah Ray, those Africans getting in the way of us European good christian white folk... "

Would you care to expand on that statement.
Erik Dols
18   Posted 09/10/2010 at 17:03:32

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Fran Mitchell, the AFCON is being held in the summer. African summer that is. For those wondering why they play it in January, that's why. It's their summer.
Trevor Lynes
19   Posted 09/10/2010 at 17:27:42

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Jags has played very well against Liverpool and blocks a great many shots by putting his body in the way. He is a great defender and should not be blamed for his distribution so much. Most of the top teams have MIDFIELD creators who take the ball from the centre backs and provide the assists for goals.

I would again say that Jags will be missed as he is out for at least a month and possibly longer. Heitinga and Fellaini will get their share of absences due to suspensions...

Karl Masters
20   Posted 09/10/2010 at 18:02:27

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I no longer give a toss about England.

Reasons?

The England team has become a symbol of all that is wrong with English football:

1/ There are so many players in it that just get right up my nose. Terry, Cole, Lampard, Rooney, Gerrard, Lescott, Ferdinand, Crouch, Barry etc. All money grabbing, cheating bastards who the man in the street has very little in common with. And it's all very well saying that you'd take £150k a week and shag around if you could, because actually you are not in that situation are you? These cocks are and yet they have no class, no morals, no gratitude, no nothing.

2/ The Manager is another overpaid, underperforming waste of space, being paid more than double any other international manager in world football. And, he's not English, so again it's not easy to relate to him or believe he really cares thne same as we do ( did ).

3/ The people who follow England are in the main a mix of old time hooligans who refuse to grow up, glory hunting small time yobs from places like Grimsby, Shrewsbury and Carlisle and the odious and ignorant new age Sky fan who believe football revolves around Jeff Stelling and the SKY 4 and drive round with silly little flags on their cars and 20 foot wide flags draped across their rooftops when a tournament is on. Again, I can't identify with these people.

I'd rather watch a Scotland or Ireland game or even an Australia or USA game where at least the players seem to be there for national pride and the right reasons not just to screw more money out of everybody. They are often underdogs and their fans go to away games in hope and for a generally fun time, not to lord it over the locals, smash up bars and behave like knobheads whilst complaining to 606 in droves if we don't put 9 goals past Macedonia.
Nick Entwistle
21   Posted 09/10/2010 at 17:46:32

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Ray, not really.

But I do look forward to the European nations having a massive rethink regarding the European Championships being played in the middle of many European seasons.
Steve Pugh
22   Posted 10/10/2010 at 22:50:44

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Karl, what utter rubbish, England fans are not "in the main a mix of old time hooligans who refuse to grow up, glory hunting small time yobs from places like Grimsby, Shrewsbury and Carlisle and the odious and ignorant new age Sky fan", most of them are football fans who see England as their second team and support them appropriately. Amongst all of my friends and associates who regularly follow England are company directors, upper and middle managers, doctors, lawyers and teachers. Amongst their first choice football teams are teams like Norwich, Yeovil, Southampton, and Leicester, so they are not your Sky 4 supporters by any means.

If you don't want to support England fine. But don't try and label those of us that do as ignorant, glory hunting thugs, that is basically as bad as calling me a kopite.
David Price
23   Posted 11/10/2010 at 21:03:11

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In balance, Steve, points 1 & 2 from Karl are valid and perhaps he should have left it there.

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