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No YNWA at Goodison

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Just read the Echo found that the family of murdered teen have rallied Everton to play "You'll Never Walk Alone" at Goodison Park before the derby. Now with the utmost respect to his family, I believe this is a highly stupid idea and could wreck the whole point of playing it in the first place. I believe that it would just turn into a crescendo of boos and I don?t believe it?s just.

I agree that there maybe should be a minute?s applause or silence but his murder doesn?t give any justification for somebody to play YNWA at GP. Derbies have highly charged atmospheres and there?s a hell of amount of hatred and passion shown at these games. I?d struggle to keep myself contained while all of those 3,000 day trippers were singing along, I?d become slightly pissed off.

I know people will say after the Liverpool played Z-Cars for Rhys Jones but that was completely different circumstances. The two sides weren?t playing each other and it was for an 11-year-old lad who was highly popular with his red mates and Everton mates. Also we don?t sing Z-Cars and it doesn?t have any words.

I believe we should have a minute?s applause or silence but I believe playing YNWA would be like a red rag to a bull and disgrace the memory of the poor lad.
Nelaj Behajiha, Liverpool     Posted 12/10/2010 at 13:38:09

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Jake Wilson
1   Posted 12/10/2010 at 04:23:32

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When Rhys Jones was murdered, it united our city closer. Liverpool showed a huge amount of respect to us and Rhys's family by playing Z-cars at Anfield as a sign of respect.

Now, you may or may not know, a young lad was tragically murdered recently, and there is a Facebook group set up by an Evertonian petitioning for Everton to play "You'll Never Walk Alone" on derby day. I think it is a very respectful idea and if you could get everyone you know on facebook to join the group and unite our city, it would be a great sign of respect.

Dave Lynch
2   Posted 12/10/2010 at 15:14:40

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Jesus! As if derbies arn't bad enough. I think it should be pointed out to the young man's family it may cause some disrespectfull behaviour from an element of fans. Maybe they should ask the shite to play it at their next home game instead.

Just doesn't sit right with me this and that is meant with no disrespect to the young man's family. But you have to question why they would want it played at Goodison in the first place?

David S Shaw
3   Posted 12/10/2010 at 15:14:44

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He was an adult wasn't he? I'm sure if I looked in the obituaries there would be a number of other adults who died this week too. I don't get why we should pick one over the other?
Matt Traynor
4   Posted 12/10/2010 at 15:14:17

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It's a sensitive one this, and you almost feel that whatever happens, we'll be damned if we do, damned if we don't.

I read about the lad's murder on the icliverpool site (as an expat I occasionally look through it) and to be honest, I thought the whole way it was reported was diabolical. Every article referred to "the murder of a young reds fan" or something like that.
- Was the murder to do with his support of a team?
- I know the lad was only 18, but is that to be his lasting legacy? He supported LFC?

As Scousers, we can sometimes be accused of having chips on our shoulders, but our local media don't help sometimes.
Michael Kenrick
5   Posted 12/10/2010 at 15:44:56

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I think this whole business is getting out of hand. The only people whose passing should be acknowledged at Goodison Park, preferably with a minute's applause, are past Everton Legends ? members of the Gwladys Street Hall of Fame.
Norman Merrill
6   Posted 12/10/2010 at 15:29:34

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I cannot believe that this has been given the go-ahead. With all respect to the family, I am surprised that they have requested such a thing before a derby at Goodison.

I don't think we need any more animosity. My sympathy goes to his family, at this time.

Charlie Percival
7   Posted 12/10/2010 at 15:47:13

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When a life is lost, football is nothing.
Chris Bannantyne
8   Posted 12/10/2010 at 15:58:22

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I understand the idea, really I do. But I agree it could end up being embarrasing and disrespectful if a group of fans start booing and what not. I have no qualms with showing the lad some silence or what have you, but this is a BIG derby. I think a lot of Evertonians will be looking forward to sticking it to our neighbours over their current erm... Situation. I think YNWA will result in boos and chants etc. I wish it wasn't so, but I believe it to be the case. Again no disrespect to the kid or his family but it is A Bad Idea. Now let's go and help the redshite get relegated!
Mike Allison
9   Posted 12/10/2010 at 16:03:47

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I don't understand what the argument is that YNWA should be played at Goodison.

There's no way it should happen, it will achieve nothing positive and, as mentioned above, could create extremely negative reactions.

A really strong dislike (I think the word hatred is unnecessary in the footballing context) has grown up against Liverpool that didn't seem to be there twenty or so years ago. I'd argue this is understandable given the relative treatment of the two clubs by footballing authorities, the media, and even local government. As a result of this, I think to ask Blues to swallow YNWA being played in their own ground, when the song is itself a symbol of the myth and 'aura' that has been manufactured about LFC to the detriment of Everton, is to fundamentally misunderstand what it is to be an Everton fan in 2010.

Again, I would ask why? What's the point?
Charlie Percival
10   Posted 12/10/2010 at 16:15:05

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Get a grip, grieving for two minutes 'over a football match' is nothing in comparison to grieving for life which the family will be doing.
Bill Slater
11   Posted 12/10/2010 at 16:17:34

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Maybe a John Lennon song would be better? "Love", "Imagine" to take the confrontational possibilities out of the event, yet giving time to respect the young lad.
Michael Kenrick
12   Posted 12/10/2010 at 16:17:49

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Spot on Mr Allison, I completely agree with you.

Charlie, it's a family loss, if the lad was a red, and they want the reds to grieve, so be it. Not at Goodison Park.

As for "When a life is lost, football is nothing." ? WTF? Lives are lost daily... football lives on. What do you want, the entire world to stop? You have really lost all sense of proportion, fella.

Charlie Percival
13   Posted 12/10/2010 at 16:29:29

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Yes your right Michael but what I mean is you would think differently if it was your child.

Charlie Percival
14   Posted 12/10/2010 at 16:32:16

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I think you've lost proportion Michael. What's more important life or football. I'll leave that to you. Don't tell me football is life because that doesn't answer my question. I hate the RS and hope we don't play it, but if we do, I have no qualms cos we will stuff them anyway and they will have to grieve at the end of the game as well as prior.
Fran Oveten
15   Posted 12/10/2010 at 16:34:37

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There is no way at all that this should happen. It's obviously not a nice thing what has happened and I think everyone on this website would have sympathy with the lad's family. However if, God forbid, anything should happen to me I would hate the thought of Z-Cars being played at Anfield. I hate Liverpool FC and everything about them, so wouldn't take pleasure in that at all.
Howard Don
16   Posted 12/10/2010 at 16:14:52

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I'm really struggling with this on several levels. I know what it's like to lose a boy (my stepson) suddenly ? a car accident in our case, and how intense emotions are (that's a major understatement). At times like that you realise football's NOT a matter of life and death, frankly Everton could have been consigned to The Blue Sqaure PL for all I cared if we could have had AP back.

They did play Z-Cars at Anfield for Rhys Jones and, let's face it, handled it very well, officials and fans alike. However, as has been rightly pointed out, the two teams weren't playing each other and what worries me is it only takes a well-oiled few hundred to behave disrespectfully and the whole thing could become completely cringeworthy and I for one would find that very difficult to deal with.

If it's deemed a worthwhile thing to do, how about a sensible compromise where EFC play YNWA before the next home game after the Derby. His parents could attend like Rhys's did at Anfield and I'm sure Goodison would then be very respectful.
Jay Harris
17   Posted 12/10/2010 at 16:54:59

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Very sensible suggestion Howard.

Or we could play Z-Cars and dedicate it to him and his family.

All other things aside, it is a very tragic loss and I am sure every Evertonian has sympathy for the family.
Nelaj Behajiha
18   Posted 12/10/2010 at 16:35:48

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Charlie, I don't have children and wouldn't consider myself a very emotional person, although I do understand respect where it's due. None of us know the circumstances to the lads death but from what I gather it had nothing to do with Football. I think that nothing justifies it being played.

Charlie, to me, Football is my life ? sad, I know... but I live for watching Everton. I can't find any reason to justify playing it other than to satisfy Liverpool fans. As one person said, surely they could play another piece of music. I believe it should get a mention but my main point is it has nothing to do with Football.

Allan Hounsgaard
19   Posted 12/10/2010 at 16:56:33

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I'll have to admit that if THAT song is played at Goodison before a derby game, I'll start booing in an instant, circumstances regardless. There is a certain threshold that you don't pass. End of.
Kevin Tully
20   Posted 12/10/2010 at 16:53:45

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It won't happen. The club are quite strict on this, and this poor kid was a Liverpool supporter. My guess is they will pass this back to the RS to do something at their next home game. It is only a facebook petition at the mo anyway.
Luke Berry
21   Posted 12/10/2010 at 16:56:42

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I have to agree with Howard Don. I have left a post on the facebook page stating that it would be a nice gesture on the right occasion. The derby is not that occasion.

I disagree entirely with Michael Kenrick on this issue, the other lot were exemplary when they honoured young Rhys but conversely they did it in the appropriate manner which is a meaningless game, knowing that it would get the gesture it deserved rather than riling the idiotic few.

I have also received a bit of bashing on the facebook page from reds fans who think that my sensible comments show a lack of respect, that shows just how divisive this subject is and how hard it is for our club to make the right decision.
James Cadwaladr
22   Posted 12/10/2010 at 17:05:14

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Nelhaj, man up fella! It should happen. Remember Rhys? I'm sure you were very pro Z-Cars being played at Anfield. Certain things override a football match and both sides of the city must unite. Hillsbroough, Rhys Jones... now this poor young lad.

We don't like being called bitter, let's not give them any ammo!!
Luke Berry
23   Posted 12/10/2010 at 17:11:10

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In addition to what other people have said about this not being a football issue, it is.

The lad was singing Liverpool songs with his mates before he was attacked. Now, not knowing whether he was attacked deliberately for this act it does bring up the feeling that it may have been a contributing factor. Rhys wasn't shot for wearing an Everton shirt was he? Yet we still had him honoured by their lot.

And speaking from a personal perspective I queued for hours to put a scarf down on Anfield after Hillsborough, it's the done thing to show your respect when something tragic happens, isn't it? Is anyone arguing that this young lad getting killed is anything but? COYB
Dennis Stevens
24   Posted 12/10/2010 at 17:06:35

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I fail to see the reason for a Liverpool supporter being given a special honour that no Evertonian would get, or expect, at either Goodison Park or Anfield. It seems that some people are sadly mis-using the lad's death in such tragic circumstances to try to get some kind of tit-for-tat response from Everton in relation to Rhys Jones & the playing of Z-Cars at Anfield. The whole matter is in incredibly poor taste & can only serve to make the bereaved family feel even worse, if that's at all possible. Whoever had this brain-wave should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.
Nelaj Behajiha
25   Posted 12/10/2010 at 17:36:18

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Yes, but the difference being we weren't playing each other and it was considered a national tragedy. I didn't expect Liverpool to do it although I thought they should definitely have a minute's applause or silence. I don't support it although I do support a tribute to him.
Alex Kociuba
26   Posted 12/10/2010 at 17:33:43

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What will playing YNWA at Goodison achieve? I don't get it?! Is it so the 'City can unite'? because that's nonsensical, ridiculous and therefore meaningless ? a cliche.
Andy Codling
27   Posted 12/10/2010 at 17:44:45

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Allan, you are the reason why I dont want it, so not to be embarrassed.
Alex Kociuba
28   Posted 12/10/2010 at 17:45:35

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"A cliché or cliche (pronounced klē-ˈshā) is a saying, expression, idea, or element of an artistic work which has been overused to the point of losing its original meaning or effect, rendering it a stereotype, especially when at some earlier time it was considered meaningful or novel."
Luke Berry
29   Posted 12/10/2010 at 17:44:43

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And to those who keep commenting that it was a "lad's death' ? it was slightly more. This boy was murdered tragically.

And in response to Dennis Stevens, you have contradicted yourself almost immediately when you stated, "I fail to see the reason for a Liverpool supporter being given a special honour that no Evertonian would get, or expect" and then going on to say that this is just some tit-for-tat issue over the fact that Rhys Jones was honoured at their ground... pathetic.

The petition was started by an Everton fan on facebook in an attempt to show some support to his family, it is a decent gesture with a good purpose. The only time it becomes bad taste is when it could cause an ugly response from people that most would agree are idiots. We should do it for his family, just not at this derby. I just wish people could be more grown up about an issue like this.

And before anyone jumps on my back about the whys and wherefores surrounding who should be honoured at matches in this fashion, let me state that it should only happen in exceptional circumstances, which I believe the Rhys event and this both are.

Nick Waters
30   Posted 12/10/2010 at 17:52:51

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I don't like this idea ? it will set a huge and then difficult-to-remove precedent. Every tragedy involving a 'fan' of one or the other team will lead to constant pressure to receive the same tribute as this incident. Is that what we want before every derby? I suppose we could then turn it into an arrangement like the national anthems being played before all international matches? YNWA and Z-Cars, with somE players not knowing the words, and others in tears. Then watch the fur fly!

I think the best response here is to let the request fall on deaf ears BEFORE the derby, and then arrange a tribute at the next home game.

Chris Hannon
31   Posted 12/10/2010 at 18:04:11

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If it does happen and people don't agree with it, like it, etc then simply stay downstairs or go in 2 minutes late! I don't think it's a good idea, it could cause a lot of trouble and could cause his family more grief! And give our club and fanbase a very bad name! One boo and Sky will highlight it and it will be all over the news! They didn't play Z-Cars at the derby for the same reasons! We should match what they did with Rhys's family at Stoke!
Shaun Brennan
32   Posted 12/10/2010 at 18:20:06

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YNWA at Goodison? What is it tit, for tat now? Terrible loss and I admit playing Z-Cars at Anfield was admirable. But they were very much different circumstances. Z-Cars at Anfield was a standing against the silence and gang culture in Liverpool.

Why have we/some of us become professional mourners. It's a football match and not a shrine, like lampposts you see all over this city. If you want to pay your respects then great; please do so... but let's keep football football.

No wonder people on the outside see us as a self pity city.

I guess some of these comments may offend people and I apologise. But this is a derby match. Remember the silence we had before Hillsborough ?that didn't go to plan did it. Let's avoid any upsets between the two sets of fans by avoiding being put in the situation.
Lee Kidd
33   Posted 12/10/2010 at 18:30:20

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Whilst obviously I have massive sympathy for Rhys's family, this is a poor idea and should not be adopted. We have a reputation as a "self pity city" and, honestly, I think it's pretty deserved when you hear about things like this.

Rhys was a human being, not just a football fan. His relationship to Everton/Liverpool shouldn't be the be-all, end-all of what his life was all about.

Sunday is a local derby and a football match ? nothing more, nothing less ? and it should be played and prepared as such.
Steve Cotton
34   Posted 12/10/2010 at 18:32:08

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Another problem is that they only played Z-Cars for about 30 seconds at Anfield, so if we did the same we would be accused of cutting it short to wind up the reds present. Why not put up a Liverpool banner with the lad's name and all give it a minute's applause??
Dennis Stevens
35   Posted 12/10/2010 at 18:23:00

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Luke Berry, you seem quick to point out an apparent contradiction in my post & yet to fail to see one in your own. I rather stupidly didn't realise that some folk would need to have it pointed out to them that the circumstances surrounding the death of Rhys Jones were exceptional. I have been on to the Facebook site & neither it nor any of the posts I've seen explain what the exceptional circumstances are in this instance that merit the requested response.

Now, I'm sure that every death, indeed every life, is in it's own way exceptional, but there is a danger here that we could be heading for some kind of ritualistic playing of Z-Cars at Anfield & YNWA at Goodison Park to mark every tragic young death. Maybe that would be a good thing, but if people think so then they should make that case. You claim that the idea is a gesture of support for the lad's family, but it strikes me as ill-considered & perhaps a little maudlin.

Lastly, maybe you should choose your words a little more carefully, when you advocate that people should "be more grown up " & yet can't debate the matter without dismissing others views as "pathetic" ?very mature!

Ian Tod
36   Posted 12/10/2010 at 18:52:29

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Many people's lives are lost every week in our city alone, it happens and I can't worry about it because it can't be changed... so, I just get on with my life as normal and carry on supporting my family and Everton; and while it's not a pleasant thing, this does not involve us and would just be an annoying element before the derby to be bothering with. It could also cause booing, which will be taken the wrong way and give us Blues a bad name in the national press ? even though we were just booing the rs singing their anthem at OUR ground.
Jon Cox
37   Posted 12/10/2010 at 18:38:55

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Luke: "The only time it becomes bad taste is when it could cause an ugly response from people that most would agree are idiots." That's the reason mate we don't want it played at Goodison. We would look shite.

We already have to take shite week-in and week-out from a meeja that can't get up the shites arses far enough. Compared to the RS, the meeja loathe our club. Can you imagine those self-righteous sanctimonious twats on MotD? They'd run us through the wringer.

And I'll bet you we'd have the volumes of the microphones up on full belt facing the Street End.

Now that would be a first.

Good shout Howard. I'm with you on this.

Jimmy Hacking
38   Posted 12/10/2010 at 19:06:07

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I honestly believe that any sane Liverpool supporter would agree with me when I say that this is a bad idea.

A noble gesture by whoever started the facebook group, but a bad idea nonetheless.

I can't see Everton agreeing to this anyway, but then they dont really have to agree or disagree, just not comment.
Nick Entwistle
39   Posted 12/10/2010 at 19:00:33

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I'm with Michael on this one. Life is more important than football, but Red and Blue kids and adults die all the time. And the memory of the latest lad is not going to be defined either way with choice made by those in charge.

Rhys's Z-Cars was due to the issue of gangs, gun crime and the innocent victims. I'm not sure on the murder stats in Liverpool... but, if every one was commemorated it would (1) lose it's meaning as a commemoration; and (2) sully Liverpool with a reputation when so much effort goes into turning it round.

Pat Finegan
40   Posted 12/10/2010 at 19:49:26

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If it was played, it would get booed. The song would get booed, not the guy who was killed. The press would construe it like all of Goodison Park booed the guy who was killed. No one wins.
Luke Berry
41   Posted 12/10/2010 at 19:39:51

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Jon, It is my belief that the derby is not the right platform to enact a gesture like this one but a home game, the next one even? That would in my opinion be an honourable thing.

Also in response to an earlier post; yes, we have to draw a line somewhere with regards to whom we honour in this manner. It would set a precedent that is both unrealistic and unmanageable and, as an earlier poster stated, could create a cliche that means these gestures lose all significance. However, if we were to do it in the next home game it would certainly be a nice mark of respect and may even help the grieving process for the family.

Dennis, I stand by my comment: you did contradict yourself, I fail to see were I contradicted myself. I believe your comments surrounding the subject are purposely divisive and that you were trying to make some kind of moralistic judgement, which, yes, I do believe is a pathetic.

If you were to read the previous articles in the Echo and take a closer inspection of some of the comments left by the lad's apparent friends, it's easy to draw a conclusion that footballing allegiances may have played a part in him being murdered.

My comments about people being more grown up about an issue like this are born out of the fact that we should know when to drop our tribalism for a second to realise we are human beings first and foremost and that, when we reach out to others, it can have a profound effect on not just ourselves but our wider communities. COYB

Phil Bellis
42   Posted 12/10/2010 at 19:42:57

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I hate that dirge. I've never been to a funeral where it's been on the playlist but I would show respect. However, I've walked out of weddings (accompanied by brides/bridesmaids), shops, 21st's, etc when that awful song's been played. What do you expect?

Bitter? dead right, pal, with a lot to be bitter about. The city of Liverpool must have the most markish, "wallow in your pseudo-Irish misery" denizens in the world. Give the lad a dignified send-off ? let all his friends mourn him as they see fit.

Bereavement is personal; grief is for loved ones, not a public event; if it was my child, Charlie, I wouldn't dream of taking my loss to the masses.

For God's sake, is nothing private any more?

Kevin Roberts
43   Posted 12/10/2010 at 20:30:29

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I have read most of the posts and would agree with some of them. It's not the YNWA that bothers me, it's the reaction it will get from the few, which means we all get tarred with the same brush. All this HATE for RS fans is unbelievable! If I was to follow that I would HATE my mum, god rest her soul, my two brothers, aunties, uncles... where would it end.

I'm not the most intellectual on here but I believe life is full of compromise so maybe it could be a minute's silence/applause at the start, play it at the next home match or even at half-time... but as fans I think we should be respectful of a young life lost. My sympathy goes out the family of the lad and I hope they find some peace.


Luke Berry
44   Posted 12/10/2010 at 21:16:34

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Hear hear, Kevin.
Charles King
45   Posted 12/10/2010 at 21:13:12

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A juvenile idea based on getting on telly, this mawkish attention seeking is dreadful; genuine grief is a private family matter.

Resist this notion, the influence of reality TV has permeated too much into society. There should at least be dignity in death.
Nick Entwistle
46   Posted 12/10/2010 at 21:50:01

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There shouldn't be a fear of being the bad guy getting in the way of doing the right thing. Put on Z-Cars, have your handshakes, then get on with beating them.
Chad Schofield
47   Posted 12/10/2010 at 21:12:47

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Pat (#38) hits the nail on the head for me.

The moment there's any danger that a mark of respect could end up descending into an insult then it should not go ahead. OK, that's not entirely true... there are times to stand up to idiots, as there are always those who want to stamp their right to oppose the wishes of others.

The timing and tribute, in this case, look likely to incite rather than unite opposing fans.
Thor Sørensen
48   Posted 12/10/2010 at 22:37:11

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The club is expert in keeping its silence (every summer and, for instance, the Gosling debacle) so not making a comment on this until AFTER the derby should'nt be too hard now, should it?
Sean McCarthy
49   Posted 12/10/2010 at 22:59:00

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A few years ago, Boris Johnson was ripped apart after implying Liverpool was full of bleeding hearts who basically over-indulged in self-pity. So much so, he was sent to the city to apologise and beg 'scousers' for forgiveness!!

All this story does is add weight to the argument that, despite being a Tory toff, Boris was spot on. These outpourings of collective grief just make the city look a laughing stock. Tragic though this person's death is to his family and friends, why must it be made into something it's not?

The Princess Di syndrome is bizarre to me. Leave the family and friends to grieve but with all due respect please don't include me at the mercy of the self-pitying community coming together minority.

Andy Crooks
50   Posted 12/10/2010 at 23:41:38

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Sean you might have put your foot in it but I agree with you. It would be a maudlin trivialisation of the tragic murder of a young man.
Eugene Ruane
51   Posted 12/10/2010 at 23:30:47

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I don't think it's a good idea for a bunch of reasons (many mentioned above ? especially those along the lines of keeping stuff private). However, it might be 'canny' for Everton FC to make a 'gesture suggestion' sooner rather than later (ie: tomorrow!)

What sort of suggestion? Erm...the 'Unity Cup' (named after him) for school sides to compete in or... um... a donation on his behalf to Alder Hey or... oh I don't know.

The point being, should this facebook thing grow, we want to be in a position to say "Everton FC have already...."

I mean imagine how it would be reported if it did gain momentum, they were to suggest it tomorrow night and we were to say No (or worse, say Yes and boo throughout).

My guess - "After Z-Cars was played at Anfield, what a bunch of mean-spirited shit-bags Everton/Evertonians have shown themselves to be..."

Etc blah.
John Clarke
52   Posted 13/10/2010 at 01:56:39

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Grieve in the privacy of your home with your family and friends. This modern day desire to have the world involved in your grief is getting a little too much.
Eric Myles
53   Posted 13/10/2010 at 02:19:20

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So, if this goes ahead, it's open season for Everton to play YNWA every time a RS fan dies? And for them to play Z-Cars every time one of us dies?
Roy Coyne
54   Posted 13/10/2010 at 02:18:46

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I have no objection to this song being played at GP but not at a derby where both lots of fans are already wound up,I think the best policy would be to play it at another game,by all means have a minutes respect for the boy,god knows how singing a footy song can lead to such a tragic ending my heart goes out to the family but much as it saddens me some morons would not give any respect to it and make are relations with them even worse.
Steve Carter
55   Posted 13/10/2010 at 04:20:50

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I do not think that is a good idea. The words and imagery of the song YNWA (as I understand what is sought here), and what that engenders in this Evertonian at least, does not lend the proposal to being comparable to that of playing the (mere) tune Z-Cars at Anfield following Rhys's murder. I doubt very much that consent would have been given to play (the song version of) Grand Old Team, had that been proposed instead at the time.
Liam Reilly
56   Posted 13/10/2010 at 07:57:45

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It would set a very dangerous precedent that would be difficult to break.
It could also ignite a potentially volatile atmosphere as no doubt some RS supporters with take great pleasure in signing that at Goodison.

I would imagine the Police would have to be consulted and would be strongly against the idea. The last thing the family needs is to have the boys memory tarnished with ugly scenes at a football match.
Alan Clarke
57   Posted 13/10/2010 at 08:21:02

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I don't think the RS would act in a respectful manner if we played that awful song. They'd be booming it out waving there stupid banners and flags and rubbing our noses in it. That is why you'd get a bad reaction from Everton fans.

It's both sets of fans that would act in a disrespectful way. This lad's murder has nothing to do with football so it should be kept away from GP.
Alastair Bates
58   Posted 13/10/2010 at 09:01:20

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Unfortunately there has not been enough Media Coverage of the tragic loss that the family have had, thus there are little if no comparisons with that of Rhys Jones?s murder and as so those outside the City would not understand any reasoning behind the playing of YNWA. So Sadly No.
Duncan McDine
59   Posted 13/10/2010 at 09:55:20

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We all hate the song, and the media would have the time of their lives when a few of us idiots start to boo (it is inevitable). I honestly think the derby is the perfect occasion to do something in respect, but not by playing that song. A minute of applause would be perfect in my opinion.
Nick Entwistle
60   Posted 13/10/2010 at 10:05:48

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The only way I could tollerate this is if they played the dam thing during the ad break right before the match. Given the desire for the TV bods to show this song at every opportunity, they'd make an exception. Nuts to it, NEVER PLAY THIS SONG AT GOODISON.
Craig Taylor
61   Posted 13/10/2010 at 10:13:07

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Tough one really.

Not sure!

May be we should just be grown up about it. If they play it, respect it for the reasons it is being played.

The thing I wonder is whether this will be a problem every time a Blue or a Red fan dies/is killed.
Henry Enzio
62   Posted 13/10/2010 at 10:10:07

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Let's just show some class. Why be bothered about a song? Oh yeah coz its "their" song. Ridiculous. If some of us boo then ban them for life (who needs that sort). For the more intellectual objector, get some perspective.
Greg Murphy
63   Posted 13/10/2010 at 09:47:00

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This is a fraught issue and I don't see how anyone can take a stance one way or the other on this matter until the full facts emerge.

Unfortunately, those full facts will not emerge before the weekend: the matter of James's death, and the circumstances surrounding it, are now under formal investigation so it is impossible for any of us to gain a clearer picture of this tragedy for quite some time.

That said, anyone who has spent any time in the North Liverpool/Walton area over the past five days cannot have escaped the rumours and accounts that have circulated concerning why and how James died.

It is categorically the case that every account has suggested that inter-city football rivalries played at least some part ? you only have to read the Echo's first account of the tragedy (prior to proceedings becoming active) which hint at this (though that has to be balanced with the fact that the police were eager ? frankly I'm not surprised in a derby week ? to dismiss that aspect). That hasn't or won't stop the rumours, though.

To that extent, then, James's death is not just another death. There is a specific context and, I suspect, that is what prompted the Facebook campaign.

You simply have to ask yourself as to why a Facebook campaign for Goodison to play YNWA has been mounted to mark James's death and not any others? What's so conspicuous about James's death?

In an ideal world, EFC would be in full possession of all the facts before the weekend and be able to make an informed decision on what is, after all, an extraordinary request. Unfortunately the wheels of justice don't move that fast and, for that reason and that reason only, I believe Ian Ross was bang on with his press statement yesterday by laying out the measured reasons for not playing the LFC anthem.

But make no mistake, this is a very, very delicate matter and we would all be well advised, as an Evertonian collective, to keep our counsel on this matter until the full facts emerge.

Put it these two ways:

1) Do I ever want to stand at Goodison and have to listen to that song? Emphatically No.

2) If it was to be proved that James's death was directly the result of inter-city football rivalry bordering on hatred (sic), which spiralled beyond all control and led to a group of so-called Evertonians killing a lad, would I feel it was appropriate to stand at Goodison and listen to YNWA for two minutes as a humble gesture on the part of all us on the Blue side of the park to convey our sympathies and disgust? Emphatically Yes. Would I think it mawkish, pitiful, over-sentimental? Not really no. Extenuating circumstances would clearly apply ? as they did regarding Rhys Jones.

It's unfortunate that the Goodison derby is so soon after James's death. Maybe if it was in April or so, we might have the full facts.

As stated, though, I hope I never, ever have to stand at Goodison and listen to YNWA for I trust that if the club ever played it then it would be deemed sadly appropriate.

We need to wait for the facts to emerge and respect a family's grief.
Mike McLean
64   Posted 13/10/2010 at 10:49:26

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My guess is that the police will make damn sure the full facts aren't made known publicly till after the derby.

Judging by many of the comments here, a life clearly, very clearly, isn't worth a song.

May it never happen to anyone in your families.
GJ Butler
65   Posted 13/10/2010 at 11:52:32

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Read most of the comments here and well said Greg Murphy, sums it up perfectly I think.
Tony J Williams
66   Posted 13/10/2010 at 11:44:18

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"If some of us boo then ban them for life (who needs that sort)"

Ban someone for reactiong (albeit stupidly) to a rivals song being forced on them at their ground. Do me a favour.

As already said so many times, grief is a private matter and a gesture by Everton FC outside of the ground is all well and good and more appropriate but to force that shitty dirge onto us fans and not to expect the idiots to boo is just crazy.
Darren Dempsey
67   Posted 13/10/2010 at 12:34:57

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If we Blues and Reds to want pay respect to the lad and unite the supporters, play a Beatles song (In My Life)! NOT their song as it is not a song for the whole of Merseyside, it is for them and could/will incite trouble as tensions will be high enough! Then go out and turn them over 3-0! COYB
Tommy Gibbons
68   Posted 13/10/2010 at 12:40:52

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Tragic though any death is, Mr McVey was 18 years old, not a child like Rhys. A completely different situation. When all the facts are known and Mr McVey's family ask for the tribute, then it should be given due consideration by the club. I would suggest however that a moment of applause may be appropriate at this time.

People seem to allude to the fact that just because LFC played Z-Cars we should reciprocate, as if EFC had never done anything like that before... Doesn't anyone remember the first derby after Hillsborough? YNWA was sung by all 4 sides of the stadium ? I know because I was there singing it in the Main Stand! The club should not be bullied by well intended sentiment, otherwise where does it stop?

Paul Sullivan
69   Posted 13/10/2010 at 13:25:00

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This is all tribal nonsense. I hate the song as much as anyone and agree it shouldn't be played but if it is are you really going to care once the game has kicked off?

Now, where is the thread about the FOOTBALL?
Richard Reeves
70   Posted 13/10/2010 at 13:51:34

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The day it happens is the day we should take our Kenwright out banners onto the terraces although that day is long overdue and even Kenwright stepping down would not take that filthy thought from our minds if ever it did happen.
Tom Brown
71   Posted 13/10/2010 at 14:16:37

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Charlie Percival. Sadly, most of our lives are touched by tragedy from time to time. There are just too many for them all to be treated equally. Rhys Jones was a special case that moved people nationally. People the length of the country still know who Rhys Jones is. The depth of feeling merited the excellent response from Liverpool FC (much as I dislike them, I take my hat off to them for that). The same depth of feeling just doesn't exist on this matter and YNWA at Goodison would not be proportionate. A minute's silence would be totally appropriate. Sympathy to the parents.
John Andrews
72   Posted 13/10/2010 at 14:35:27

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Richard, I think there is a chance Mr Kenwright will play the song. He recently said in interview, "You'll never walk alone brings a tear to my eye every time I hear it played".
Christopher McCullough
73   Posted 13/10/2010 at 15:40:13

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Darren Dempsey#67 I think your suggestion is a good one, although that particular Beatles song is a little too upbeat, perhaps.

The only reason I agree with the suggestion is to protect Everton FC from an unnecessary media reaction and to save myself from overbearing, hypocritical damnations of Evertonians as a bunch of bitter bastards. It winds me up. I can't find a suitably moral or logical reason for a public grieving session anywhere on this world wide web, or for playing their shite song at Goodison Park. If some binding reasons emerge then, alright, play their song then beat their team on the pitch.

Phil Bellis
74   Posted 13/10/2010 at 17:12:55

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"For the more intellectual objector..." - the ghost of Alan Kirwin
Michael Kenrick
75   Posted 13/10/2010 at 17:21:56

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Phil ? my thought exactly!
Ed Fitzgerald
76   Posted 13/10/2010 at 17:58:25

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As tragic as the loss of any life is, playing YNWA would be a massive own goal for Everton. Our response would not be pretty and we would get hammered in the national press and of course once again I am afraid the Reds would have a media victory.

I remember the derby after Hillsborough and it?s misleading to say that all four sides of the ground were singing YNWA in unison ? many of us just simply kept our gobs shut out of respect. I recall they did a pretty good job celebrating when they beat us in the Cup Final so life does go on and people quite rightly move on from both personal and communal tragedies all the time ? because we have to.

A minute's silence would be fine and is the most appropriate way to recognise the death of someone. Greg, if there is any truth that the murder was in someway related to football rivalry, then that is dreadful and I hope they find the guilty parties, lock them up, and throw away the key.

Dennis Stevens
77   Posted 13/10/2010 at 16:26:37

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Luke Berry, surely you can't really be as dim as you portray yourself in your posts on this matter.

My original comment "...a special honour that no Evertonian would get, or expect, at either Goodison Park or Anfield" has not been contradicted in any way - but do feel free to list all the Evertonians I've mentioned that would have that expectation.

Even you have refered to the circumstances relating to the death of Rhys Jones as "exceptional", hence my mentioning him as a point of reference. Unfortunately you seem unable to explain why you consider this recent murder in the same light ? merely some vague comment about "... footballing allegiances may have played a part in him being murdered" ? in other words you don't actually know.

As you seem capable of inventing a contradiction in my post that doesn't exist, I suppose you see no contradiction in your own when you think others should be "grown up" and yet you seem incapable of displaying the same in your posts. I actually find it a little "pathetic" that you feel it necessary to invent imaginary motives for other people's posts so that you can insult them.

I fail to see how playing YNWA at Goodison Park before the derby would be likely to have a positive effect on any wider community, considering how divisive the very suggestion is proving to be just on this website.

Jon Cox
78   Posted 13/10/2010 at 18:23:25

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Talk about life immitating art... What would Sam Tyler say?
Ciarán McGlone
79   Posted 13/10/2010 at 22:53:18

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Some shockingly callous crap on this thread. It's a song. People really need to step away from the idiotic idea that 'football is not life and death, it's more important'... pure blocks from a pure prick.

If Greg Murphy is right then this is a shocking state of affairs, and one where having a two-bit song shoved down our throats is the least of our problems.

Tommy Gibbons
80   Posted 13/10/2010 at 23:58:34

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Ed Fitzgerald... What the fuck are you on about? That night at Goodison was a one-off, YNWA was sung from all sides of the ground, it was fuck-all to do with the football and those with half a brain knew it.

Now I'm as bitter and twisted... in fact, I'm the most bitter and twisted Toffee you'll ever meet (and proud of it) but for a so-called Blue to denegrate what happened that night is a disgrace, and only serves to feed the RS who believe we've never offered help/friendship when called upon.

And as for them celebrating after the final, well that was football!

Gareth Humphreys
81   Posted 14/10/2010 at 09:31:41

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I don't think that the media's opinon of us should have any bearing on the decision, nor should we have any say on what the family's request is ? that's their call.

However, make no mistake about it, it would not go down well at Goodison and would not pass off without incident. For that reason, and that reason alone, the family should not want it to go ahead as it would be counter-productive.

Charles King
82   Posted 14/10/2010 at 10:21:09

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Thinking ahead, should YNWA ever need to be played at Goodison, is there a version that describes the reasons why they'll never walk alone?

Namely the continuing presence of lawyers and police relating to their many criminal and civil cases?
Ernie McAllister
83   Posted 14/10/2010 at 11:37:58

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Thing is 1985 will never be forgotten. The hatred has festered and festered since then. Come together? I'd rather watch them all suffer for ever in the fiery pit of hell where LFC go to when they die.
Ernie McAllister
84   Posted 14/10/2010 at 11:43:04

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Charles absolutely spot on you couldn't be more right.

Id strongly object to YNWA. Not something I want to hear this Sunday.

What I do wish to hear is the jubilation of hammering that lot senseless on the pitch.

Certainly by playing YNWA, it will guarantee an already hostile environment turning into something it should never do.

Ugly will be the least of their concerns at Goodison. They should simply never play it. Find a Lennon song as mentioned above, plenty of them and perfect for the occasion celebrating his life or death whatever.

I just think the whole thing will be a massive disaster if that racket is played at Goodison.
Nelaj Behajiha
85   Posted 14/10/2010 at 13:07:08

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I think anyone who compares Rhys Jones to this is particualry silly. Rhys Jones was not the intended target of the bullet and was merely an innocent young lad on his way home from football practice. His dad and him were season ticket holders at GP. While it happens where I'm originally from, mostly it's extremely rare for children to be shot and killed in the street.

From what I gather, there was a group of lads singing outside this party loudly and this 18-year-old lad was stabbed. There's no evidence that the lad was killed for footballing reasons so therfore I think that should be made clear. While I'm not saying it was justified, it was very different to the Rhys Jones murder and his parents didn't ask for it.

Nelaj Behajiha
86   Posted 14/10/2010 at 13:20:09

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Hillsbrough and Rhys Jones were both different circumstances and neither of the families asked for it to be played it was offered.
John Andrews
87   Posted 14/10/2010 at 18:35:32

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Tommy, if you have ever sung that song, you are mistaken in the description you have given yourself: "most bitter and twisted blue".
Ed Fitzgerald
88   Posted 14/10/2010 at 20:16:38

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Tommy Gibbons

I was there as well and loads of people didn't sing, they just said fuck all. I'm neither bitter or twisted, many people sang YNWA on that night and many didn't.

Who the fuck are you to call ME a so-called Blue? What because I have the honesty to say some people including myself didn't sing YNWA that night? What does this mean ? that I felt no sympathy for those who had died?

Once again, the only way some people on Merseyside assume that you can show any respect for the dead is to indulge in some kind of mawkish community ritual ? and if you don't... well, you don't really care, do you?

John Andrews
89   Posted 14/10/2010 at 21:40:45

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I laid flowers at Anfield and paid my respects. I could never bring myself to sing that song regardless of circumstance. That does not mean I do not respect the loss of people who went to a football match and did not come home.

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