It is now the norm for at least 4 Black players to play in our first team ? considerable progress when you consider that only 16 years ago Daniel Amokachi became Everton's first high-profile Black signing.
However, from my observations at home matches, this shift is not reflected in the supporters' ethnic mix. I see some supporters from an Asian background but very few from an Afro-Caribbean background. 2001 Census data for Liverpool suggests that approximately 1% of local residents are Black and 3% of Asian ethnic background so it would not be unreasonable to expect over a 1000 supporters to not be white at a full capacity match.
Do ToffeeWeb readers have any insight into why this is the case despite the good work of the Club in the community and the virtual disappearance of overt racism at the ground (that I recall was all too familiar at Goodison and some other grounds in the 80s)?
Rob Sawyer, Posted 19/10/2010 at
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1 Posted 19/10/2010 at 15:01:06
2. If you are a migrant and come into the country you are more likely to support Liverpool than Everton. Just like if you were to move to Barcelona you would most probably support Barcelona not Espanyol; to Turin you'd support Juve not Turino, etc etc.
3. The terraces, and country as a whole really, despite the popular consensus, is still generally quite racist and welcoming. Here may no longer be the monkey chants of old to players, but personal abuse to fans, which largely goes ignored by stewards, very much exists.
Liverpool is a very segregated city. There are large migrant communities, and there are also large 2nd/3rd generation migrant communities, yet they are very segregated. Go into Liverpool city centre and the segregation is stark. The city centre is very very white, especially when you compare to a city such as Manchester, which is not too dissimilar population wise.
Liverpool, in my opinion, is still a very racist city.
2 Posted 19/10/2010 at 15:13:49
I know that racist abuse may have been a problem a while ago (and still can be among a minority of mindless supporters) but I don't think that deters too many these days.
It certainly isn't due to lack of effort on the part of Everton in the Community which in my experience is first rate.
3 Posted 19/10/2010 at 15:24:41
Just guessing, and there are numerous other reasons one could think of. I guess that on average throughout all of Europe, attendances are more 'white' than the demographics would suggest, it's certainly not just Everton.
Ah well, that other lot beat the demographics in another way: I don't know the percentage of Norwegians in Liverpool, but they're beating it comfortably in their attendances...
4 Posted 19/10/2010 at 15:40:34
5 Posted 19/10/2010 at 15:46:22
Mike Trebilcock is a name forever burned into my memory as I witnessed as a 15 year old at Wembley in 1966 and Cliff Marshall who, as a born Evertonian, played for his club, albeit only a handfull of times.
Football clubs are NOT racist, people are racist.
There was no racism at Goodison Park - ever - there were racists who used the venue to try to propagate their pathetic ideas and failed miserably.
6 Posted 19/10/2010 at 16:00:33
7 Posted 19/10/2010 at 16:03:15
Just a small thought...
8 Posted 19/10/2010 at 15:57:59
9 Posted 19/10/2010 at 16:31:13
At the time I only remember Clyde Best as the only big name black player at the time. Maybe Paul Reaney of Leeds also.
10 Posted 19/10/2010 at 16:34:02
11 Posted 19/10/2010 at 16:03:20
Supporters go to matches because of INTEREST.
Look at Wayne Rooney. He plays for Man Utd, as they pay his wages and they offered him a better contract than Everton could. But he still supports Everton and will do so for life, no matter what team he plays for.
From an international aspect, Joseph Yobo has bigger affection for his country than his club. Even though he has lived here for a long time. Why? Because he is born and raised in Nigeria
Mikel Arteta would love it more to play for the Spanish national team, rather than the English. Why? Because he is born and raised in Spain.
People from other parts of the world are, in general, less likely to be interested in football as this sport is bigger in England than any other place.
Those who are interested in football do probably already have a favourite team elsewhere. If they don't have so, many will probably fancy Man Utd, City, Arsenal, Chelsea and so on, because of their international reputation.
If you, Rob Sawyer, moved to Nigeria. Would you automatically become a supporter of the local football team there or would you still be an Everton supporter?
Think about that, and you will probably find the answer to your question.
12 Posted 19/10/2010 at 16:39:16
13 Posted 19/10/2010 at 16:52:57
I stopped going to the match because I got fed up with far right wing behaviour of a minority of fans around me. From what I've heard, it's a good deal worse at away matches.
At Goodison, the Club could do a geat deal more about the education and organisation of stewards. But there's no question that the ordinary, decent fan could make more of a protest as well. If you stay silent, maybe you're part of the problem.
14 Posted 19/10/2010 at 17:03:31
When Cliffs mother and sister used to attend the games there was terrible abuse directed towards him including the previously stated monkey chants. His sister informed me that Everton was the only club he wished to play for, even though the other lot and Manchester United were both interested in taking him.
On a brighter note he still remains an avid Evertonian and is now an ambassador for the club. We are lucky that his experiences didn't force him to abandon his love for the team.
15 Posted 19/10/2010 at 17:34:59
I agree very much with Larry (4) - it's not clubs that are racist ,it is certain fans. I remember back in 1977 in the space of a couple of weeks seeing a 17 year old Garth Crooks suffer racist abuse at Goodison and Anfield .Thankfully we seem to have consigned those idiots to the dustbin of history's "most unwanted" where they belong.
On the subject of Kevin Campbell - it was great to see him back at Goodison on Sunday. His goals kept us up and whoever it was who decided to sign him on loan and then make it permanent deserves a lot of credit - an inspired signing.
16 Posted 19/10/2010 at 17:45:08
I don't know what point you are trying to make. Using your figures, the Census data for Liverpool shows its population as 96% white British. And you are surprised that the crowd is mainly filled with white British people?
17 Posted 19/10/2010 at 17:40:35
My problem is with the club though. I go home, away and have been to a couple of European games and 99.9% of the fans have been awesome towards me, but it's a shame I can't say that about the club I love. For me, the club "do" so much and talk so much about "Kick out racism" etc but, from my experience with the club, its all a load of tosh!
Things may have improved recently, I dont know, but in around 1999 there was 2 or 3 national newspapers (Mirror and one or two others - The Sun was not one of the others) giving Everton FC bad press (not a small coloumn, but full page or two spread) by saying we do not have any Asian season ticket holders. Both me and my cousin are, so I contacted Everton FC and was told they aint bothered about that and did not want to set the record right with the papers. Said it all to me, here I am, an Asian season ticket holder, but the club didnt care!
Another example, 19 October 2002 (the day Rooney made his name) against Arsenal. A middle-aged man calling Uriah Rennie names coz of the colour of his skin, but when Yobo done something great he would cheer him. When I asked him why he's being racist to Rennie, he said sorry, but when I reported that to the stewards and the club, they didn't care and didn't do anything about it.
There have been other times when I have heard racism and no-one has bothered doing anything. So, for me, yes it's improved with the players on the pitch... and yes, it's improved with the fans (as I said, I have not had problems with our fans home or away) but the club? absolute joke! To accept the media coverage they had and to dismiss things the way they did, I just don't bother anymore!
18 Posted 19/10/2010 at 17:54:19
19 Posted 19/10/2010 at 18:35:02
20 Posted 19/10/2010 at 18:58:26
Anyway don't vanilla and pink matter as well this season :0)
21 Posted 19/10/2010 at 19:48:41
Austin Heath (7) totally agree Kevin Cambell was one of the most important players in this club's history. Great to see him on Sunday, all round great guy.
22 Posted 19/10/2010 at 20:01:03
23 Posted 19/10/2010 at 20:14:33
The reason for my post is that Everton are not well represented in matchday attendance by a small but significant proportion of the city's population (and both the black and Chinese communities are long established). If nothing else this is something to consider when looking to maximise support and revenue for the club.
24 Posted 19/10/2010 at 20:25:31
25 Posted 19/10/2010 at 20:23:23
"who cares what colour you are if you support EFC you belong to the family end of"
I agree completely, but the post (or the questions it raises) is far from 'stupid'
The subject SHOULD (imo) be addressed from time to time.
Remember, the dead-eyed morons who scream/ed this shite did so ONLY because they felt/feel safe to.
These inadequates (who ALWAYS need a mob to be 'brave' and ALWAYS immediately hate anything they don't understand) need to know that they were never wanted, are not wanted now and never will be.
(they're idiots remember so you keep having to repeat the message).
There's been a chipping away at them for 20 years that has made them feel unsafe with regards chanting inside Goodison.
Great...but the chipping away needs to continue until they feel nervous about uttering anything racial ANYWHERE.
I have heard the Street End (or a good 70%) bellow out in full voice 'Everton are white'.
I have heard some of the most disgusting racial filth at away games from 'Evertonians' and NOT from a 'small minority'.
I know they haven't gone away, but getting them to shut the fuck up is a start.
It's great that things are changing for the better and great that these days, players come to Everton without thinking of us as 'racist'.
However it is ALWAYS I believe a subject that needs keeping an eye on - this post does just that.
26 Posted 19/10/2010 at 21:31:19
Personally, I feel any kind of assessment in terms of proportional quotas based on race is inherently racist and I abhor categorizations of this type for that reason. We should all be free to support or not support as is our inclination; skin colour, race, ethnicity should not be an issue. Next you'll be seeking proportional representation in the Goodison crowd for Muslims, Christian, Catholics Protestants, seikhs ... who knows... you'll probably figure out that 5% (or is it 15%?) of the population is homosexual, and express concern that there are insufficient numbers of the gay persuasion in the crowd ? pink shirts nothwithstanding!
See... this is the path to madness!!!
However, I can also see merit in what Eugene says: there are still racists out there amongst us... and yes, it behoves us to discuss the topic now and again.
27 Posted 19/10/2010 at 21:29:11
I totally agree. I remember going to alot of away games in 90-91 and the "Everton are White" chants where constant.
God, I was only 15 then but I remember them, plus a lot worse, like it was yesterday.
Whenever a black opposition player took a corner/throw-in, he got terrible abuse; if we went a goal down, which we usually did, it got a hell of a lot louder.
Awful dark times back then.
28 Posted 19/10/2010 at 22:12:31
Other than Walton-Anfield identity, both clubs do not represent a specific area of the city. This is one of the reasons for the whole "friendly derby" etc. You are blue or red because of a player, a manager, a father, brother etc.
Not on where you where born. Manchester is East/West split. Birmingham North/South.
The vast majority of ethnic minorities in Liverpool (which is a city along with Newcastle which is still very white dominated) live around Toxteth, Dingle and Wavertree. They don't have geographical ties to either club but with the exception of a couple of years in the 80's Liverpool completely dominated. Who would you support if you had no ties to the blues. I think 90% would choose Liverpool.
Ironically, the original Irish, Polish and Italian immigrants to the city supported Everton (with living around the Scotland Road area) rather than Liverpool.
In fairness to the club, considering the north of the city is predominately white I think we are doing well for the amount of Asian and black fans we have. Look at West Ham, they play in an area in which is mainly Asian yet they have an almost exclusive fat white 50 year old skinhead support.
29 Posted 19/10/2010 at 22:27:47
I think there have been lots of good points made in this thread made from different perspectives.
30 Posted 19/10/2010 at 21:47:46
Everton since I was 6 years old or so because I liked the players and the kit and they were of course a cracking team in the mid eighties. All my friends at the time supported Liverpool and they told me i should support them too but I told them to fuck right off!!!
I went to watch York City my first ever football match with a couple of friends when I was around 10 years old. The abuse the two black players got from most of the York fans in the home stand was unbelievable. I looked around while everyone joined in and the others laughed along with the vile. Even the two so called white friends of mine were laughing along with it all. I thought to myself what the fuck am I doing here exactly? - Is this what it's all about?
I've been to a couple of Everton away matches since then but have unfortunately sat with the away fans in the family stands but have never heard any racist chants or comments etc which is good.
Anyway, I'm a dad now with a 20 month old boy who has two Everton tops already and I'm sure already loves Everton FC. I've never been to Goodison Park yet, probably because there has been no one to go with me and previously worried if I went I didn't want to hear any racist shit as it may put me off going anytime afterwards.
As I'm a bit older, wiser and unfortunately fatter now, I do plan to go at some point, maybe before I take my little boy with me but my point is this, I have toffee in my blood, I can't help that, i don't smile at anything at all apart from when Everton win which my wife finds very annoying. I probably show more passion with Everton scoring then when I score in the bedroom myself. I'm sure Goodison is a great place for me and any other person from whatever background to go to, however, of course there may some mindless idiots but that's their problem not mine. I will enjoy sharing my emotions and supporting the lads in the blue shirts on the pitch with the majority of great Evertonians. See you all there soon......
31 Posted 19/10/2010 at 22:52:57
Unfortunately there are knobheads in all walks of life and as you said its their problem they are racists not yours.
If you ever need anyone to go the game with, just put a request on this site and you will have fellow bluenoses queueing up to go with you
I remember a few years ago we played QPR at home and Les Ferdinand gave one of the best all round CF displays it has ever been my pleasure to witness (I think he scored a hat trick), but the lasting memory of that day was the gang of dickheads sitting near to me in the Gladwys St calling him every disgusting name you could think of, me complaining to a woman police officer as there where little kids in the vicinity with their parents and being told to sit down and shut up or they would throw me out !!
Its a lot better now, but even where I sit in the Top balcony you still get the odd N word remark.
32 Posted 19/10/2010 at 23:06:26
33 Posted 20/10/2010 at 00:10:04
But when I visited Goodison during the same period (always lower Bullens, £4.50, no leg-room), I never heard anything racist at all. not a sausage. zip.
Not saying it NEVER went on, just pretty convinced our fans weren't too bad in that area.
34 Posted 20/10/2010 at 00:28:21
In all seriousness though, what you say is spot on.
35 Posted 20/10/2010 at 01:03:46
Some supporters even joking around saying "Hey mate! Anfield is over there..."
Hope things change since I left Toxteth 11 years ago....
36 Posted 20/10/2010 at 01:11:13
I've heard a lot about the scousers bad treatment of Asian... well, I've never experience even one, so that's must be a false statement.
Thanks for the wonderful experience, which is not so wonderful really as we fighting the relegation battle....
I hope more Asian supporting EFC now...
37 Posted 20/10/2010 at 02:52:47
Things have got better but there's still a few about who use football as a platform to express their views.
38 Posted 20/10/2010 at 03:08:26
On the topic,,, I am of half chinese descent, I have been to gp a few times and have noticed that the crowd does appear to be quite white when compared to another ground I went to quite a bit; Ninian park in Cardiff. I don't think Liverpool is a less multi cultural place than Cardiff.
however whenever i was in the ground I never received any funny looks or anything. The only abuse I got was a giant man hug from a large sweaty bloke (august) when Campbell scored the winner.
I beleive this is the kind of anomaly which will sort itself out in the future. I don't think reaching out to a particular community or ethinic group is the way it just become a box ticking exercise, just make sure all evertonians are welcome at GP. Give it a bit of time, then we will get a GP that reflects the makeup of the community in Liverpool and UK
39 Posted 20/10/2010 at 04:46:34
40 Posted 20/10/2010 at 06:41:15
I know he was shite, but the crap he put up with on that eventfull day was unforgivable and consider that this abuse drove this man to announce retirement.
I wish i could say the racists are gone from sporting arenas, but sadly they still exist but are much quieter.
41 Posted 20/10/2010 at 07:55:42
42 Posted 20/10/2010 at 10:32:14
43 Posted 20/10/2010 at 11:37:37
1) Me and my brother went to the FA Cup Final in 2009. After the match we were leaving Wembley in Everton colours and were given abuse by other Evertonians: "If you support Everton, you're supposed to be white."
2) Last time Charlton were in the top-flight I went to Charlton away. Train filled up at London Bridge with a bunch of Everton fans with remarks such as: "I thought this train carriage was going to be all-white but there are some niggers on here (pointing to an old lady)". They were carrying knives and were boasting about how they'd "knifed some Pakis" in Leicester on the train down.
3) When we played Arsenal away when Mr Rooney was around, a bunch of fans around me were racially abusing a nearby non-white Arsenal fan (who was in the home end). They turned round to me and said: "We're not getting at you mate - we're all blue here". Funny and sad at the same time!
44 Posted 20/10/2010 at 11:53:01
Two season ago I was playing 5 a side at the pits down from the ground. Everton were playing away in Europe that night and once we had finished our kick about I didnt have time to get back home to Chester before Kick off so I went to the Royal Oak to watch the match.
I havent been in their before and dont know about the general clientele, but I was absolutely digsgusted. There was me, a freind of mine who supports the other lot and a bunch of about 15 everton fans in their late teens / early 20s. There were also a few other people in but not many.
Throughout the whole game these lads were jumping on tables singing "we are the racist club, we are the racist club" constantly throughout the match.
We may have lost the tag of being a racist club but it is certainly disappointing, no disgusting to see young lads who would have been too young to remember the days when we may have been labelled as racist (At 31 years old I cant recall it either) behaving in such a manner, especially when Yobo, Yakubu, Anichebe and Castillo were all on the pitch!
Clearly there are still some (wont say many) amongst us!
45 Posted 20/10/2010 at 12:09:10
I had the channel on for virtually the whole of Saturday as they were just playing one after another, some where we won and some where they won. In one of these games, I think it was the 1987 League Cup game at Anfield, where we won won 1-0 (Gary Stevens getting the winner in front of the Kop), my son was sitting next to me. He had just come in from the garden after playing footy with his mates. He's only nine and he's black (my missus being from Ghana; I am white). We sat there with this game on in the background. I wasn't particularly concentrating too hard on it as I was also reading the paper, when suddenly my son draws my attention back to the game on the tele.
"Why are they singing that dad?" he said.
"Singing what?" I replied. I listened and all you could hear coming from our fans, very loud and very clear was them singing (to that Garry Glitter tune) ? "Everton are white, Everton are white!"
I couldn't answer ? I nearly choked. For I remember those glory days of the eighties, standing on the Lower Gwladys street as a teenager watching us destroy the likes of Man U, Arsenal and all the rest, but also hearing some morons around me singing the same words to the same tune and then when leaving the Paddock finding little business cards on the floor with the words "Keep Everton White" written on them.
It's something that I have put to the back of my mind for the last 20-odd years but last Saturday it really made me feel uncomfortable having to explain this to a nine-year-old boy who probably still believes in Father Christmas.
I am Everton for life and proud to be so, but saying that, there are some aspects of our club's supporters that I am not proud of and in time I hope the few remaining diehards who spout this disgusting ideology will turn to dust and walk amongst us no more.
46 Posted 20/10/2010 at 13:08:01
We signed Amo in Aug/Sept 94 and Barrett came well in early 95 as he wasn't able to play the the Cup Final
47 Posted 20/10/2010 at 14:34:10
I cannot remember racial issues right up until the national front scumbags managed to find some followers at EVERY clubs fans, not just Everton.
I don't think that football was particularly participated in by black people until fairly recently... the white-only sports were the likes of golf and tennis but even they have dropped all the barriers...
I can well remember EFC as being thought of as a Catholic club back in the 40s and 50s because of the large amount of Irish players in the teams....but I have supported them since 1948 and I'm not a catholic.
The REAL bigotry is in Glasgow and I can well remember Souness being castigated when he signed Mo Johnstone for Rangers to the extent that many fans cancelled their season tickets because Mo was a Catholic...
I watched the two greats, Pele and Eusebio, play at Goodison in 1966 and the goodison crowd never passed any racial jibes then. Now there are almost as many black players as white in the premier and lets face it... the best white players are normally foreign anyway...
48 Posted 20/10/2010 at 16:46:10
Strange, though I saw quite a few black and Asian people around Goodison on Sunday. I'd say that our fans are certainly not PC but they're not racist ? they just see it as a way of labelling people.
Eugene ? as I lived in North London for most of the time I've been in this country, I can tell you it's not a racist term when Football's concerned, Spurs fans call themselves Yids even if they're not Jewish and it's used not as a offence but the opposite and compliment. Look at YouTube ? there's loads of videos with titles such as "Yids away at Chelsea."
James ? they were obviously under the influence of Alcohol so therefore I don't really think you can use it to make any point, as I'm sure racist language is commonly used when people drink. The way I look at it is everybody is racist in the world, it's passed down from father to son to hate the Irish, English, French, Germans, Serbs, Albanians, Croats, Greeks and Turks.
I'm from Kosovo and I know about true ethnic hatred and pissed up people talking shit isn't really a true portrayal of their character. The problem is people don't understand racism and many places in Liverpool are largely all white so many people don't understand the offence it causes when using certain words.
49 Posted 20/10/2010 at 17:12:25
Nelaj Behajiha (#) ? "the Premier League is a discrimnatory league that basically discriminates against working class people of all colours."
That comes across as a very strong claim, and I'm puzzled as to just what you mean. A great many of the players come from working class backgrounds, and they are of all colours. What discrimination are you talking about exactly? Is this about ticket prices?
50 Posted 20/10/2010 at 17:07:15
51 Posted 20/10/2010 at 17:21:58
What surprises me is the fact that there have not been many Asian guys playing Premier League football. I am treading on eggshells here, but can anyone tell me why this is so?
52 Posted 20/10/2010 at 17:50:43
The rest were Liverpool fans. One particularly odious breed of red bastard positioned itself beside me. He continually shouted "fat cunt" when Yakubu gained possession. One of many highlights of the game was when Yak took a short cut through Skyrtle or whatever you call him. Fun times.
53 Posted 20/10/2010 at 18:01:59
54 Posted 20/10/2010 at 18:01:19
55 Posted 20/10/2010 at 18:09:46
56 Posted 20/10/2010 at 19:12:26
There are now a few household names of east asian decent in European football now including the PL, but I suspect in the UK there are far more Indian/Pakistanis than say Chinese or Japanese.
The population of India is over a billion you'd think, by quantity alone they would have a proper national team (which they don't).
57 Posted 20/10/2010 at 19:12:38
Genetics perhaps or is the sport of swimming racist.
Oh and while were on the subject one of the biggesy racists I've come across in the last 5 years has to be Dianne Abbot. Dont forget before we all drown in a torrent of guilt that racism works both ways and is just as disgusting.
58 Posted 20/10/2010 at 19:46:31
Go for 4-4-2 The Yak and Beckford up front. GO FOR IT DAVEY!!
59 Posted 20/10/2010 at 20:18:23
60 Posted 20/10/2010 at 20:29:27
Ironically, never had an issue at GP. Have witnessed racist chanting from our supporters at Leicester - it was embarassing - but, subsequently watched a few other teams visit Leicester and found they did the same thing.
I think every club has its racist element, its probably a reflection of society, so to pick out EFC is unfair.
As to the original question of why so few non-whites attend at GP, in my experience Asian fans attend games less frequently; its not part of the cultural heritage (my dad hated football). That ofcourse, is now changing: my friends and relatives are now taking their kids, so there is a generational element to the debate.
61 Posted 20/10/2010 at 22:35:00
62 Posted 20/10/2010 at 23:34:58
I remember Alex Williams taking up his position in the Man City goal at the Gwladys St End to be confronted by two dickheads waving burning paper crosses in his direction. Granted it was in the 80s and, whilst we'd like to think racist abuse is no longer an issue inside Goodison; however, whilst the overt stuff seems to have disappeared, the sporadic use of racist language by individuals can still be heard. Just like in everyday society so I guess despite a lot of hard work by a lot of people there is still some way to go.
It's up to all of us to end racism for good not just from Goodison but from society in general.
63 Posted 21/10/2010 at 09:26:41
64 Posted 21/10/2010 at 09:32:40
Does Moyes have a conscious preference for what could loosely be called Commonwealth players? (Pienaar, Tim, Seamus, Yak/Joey, even Tim/Landon, as well as a healthy set of Brits). Not sure if it is a theory that will stand up to much scrutiny, but does any other team have such a high proportion of players from anglophone countries?
And does he keep new acquisitions (Mucha, Bily) on their bench until their English improves?
65 Posted 21/10/2010 at 12:50:56
Still one of the most outrageous things I have ever read.
Does anyone remember that fella who I think was called Joe Moss who wrote a racist, bile-filled letter to WSAG about 15-20yrs ago talking about how Everton should be white and scouse etc. It was good to see then that the following edition was full to the brim of crticism to this tosser.
To all the ninja lids who may read this who indulge in this crap ? do it when you're on your own, surrounded by black people, let's see how brave you are then. Twats.
66 Posted 22/10/2010 at 03:09:25
Please keep your stupid chants in some shit holes far from civilisation.
Everybody entitle to what they believe.. just keep it to yourself.
67 Posted 22/10/2010 at 10:41:15
68 Posted 22/10/2010 at 12:18:29
Take the last two contributions in the debate for example.The post above this one (Mike Allison of course), says that I write this on purpose. So what he is saying is that every other post in this thread does not have a purpose? That I am the only one having an intention to write? Does his computer write by itself?
In post number 66, the author says that everybody are entitled to what they believe... as long as they keep it to themselves. Okay, so he basically use the freedom of speech to PREVENT others from the same? He did certainly not keep his words about "morons" and "shit holes" to himself. Nobody in this thread have kept their believes or opinions to themselves. Why require something you can't maintain yourself?
If a thread is about "Kenwrong" or "Moyes out", it is not considered off topic if someone says: "I believe Kenwright i right and Moyes is good". But this kind of thread is for mutual admiration only.
There have been discussions about things like this before. And yes, I have participated in many of them too. But who is Mike Allison to criticize me for that? After all, he has been an ever present participant in these contexts.
Some people take the contradictory to a whole new level. They call Liverpool FC, "The Shite". Arsenal = "The Gooners", Man City = "Man Shitty", Chelsea = "Chelski", and so on. But we can't say "Yids" about Tottenham. Even non jewish Spurs fans refer themselves as the "Yids". Nobody screams about jewish supremacy when Tottenham supporters chants "We are the Yids army". Some may say: "Oh, that is not strange. There are many jewish spurs fans. So that is their thing". But nobody would dare to say. "I have heard Everton fans singing about them being white. But that is not strange. Most Everton fans are white, so it's their thing.
Aren't we as fans supposed to give the opposition a hard time when they visit Goodison? Isn't that part of the supporter culture? Why are some people "holy"? Some people may say: "You can not scream the "N-word" to Rio Ferdinand because black Everton supporters could take offense. Okay, but nobody cares if fat and bald Everton supporters feel aggrieved when a certain Mr Rooney is taunted for being fat and bald. Nobody cares if there may have been a fat Spanish waiter among the Everton fans when people started singing about Rafael Benitez upon his visit to Goodison. Nobody cares now about the incident when El Hadji Diouff said to one of our ball boys to "Fuck off white boy". But still there are a majority of fans that go on and on about when John Barnes got bananas thrown at him more than twenty years ago.
You can say that Ian Rush had a big nose, but you could not say that one or another black player had big lips. You can say Mancs or Scousers but not Pakis.
And then again. Everton are by many refered as "The white club". For this we are supposed to apology. But if we refer Tottenham as "The Yids club". WE ARE STILL THE ONES TO APOLOGY. Do you ever hear Spurs fans apology for being the "Yids club"?
This thread is in a way about getting more non white people to attend Goodison. Would a similar thread in a Spurs forum be accepted if it was about "Getting more non jewish fans to White Hart Lane"?
As the discussion have turned out in this thread, this post is very much ON TOPIC.
69 Posted 22/10/2010 at 14:32:46
Yea, so life is full of contradictions... but what concerns me is that you claim Everton are referred to as "The White Club". I don't believe that to be a correct statement but the illiteracy of your writing renders any real meaning uncertain.
Are you trying to use these contradictions to justify Evertonian racists, because racism exists? Along with all these other forms of tribal nonsense? In that case, you are a moron.
70 Posted 22/10/2010 at 14:58:31
I am not English. I am so sorry for that. I do not master this language fully. I am sorry for that too. If me being foreign makes me automatically stupid, I suppose you are more racist than what I am accused of.
You say that me claiming Everton are referred to as "The White Club" is incorrect.
First of all, I haven't said that myself. What I said was "Everton are by many refered as "The white club". I know by now you find it difficult to understand my writing, but it might help you to look what others have said here. At least three persons in this thread (post # 25, 27, 45) have witnessed a good 70% of the Street end singing "Everton are white". One person even remember hearing this through his TV. Well, it cant have been just a few then? It must have been quite many, don't you think? Do you still find it wrong to say that many people refer Everton to as "The white club"?
I think we should talk about football on a football community. It is not me who start these threads about politics and race and so on. I find it silly to be honest. If race doesn't matter, why do people care about how many percentage blacks and Asians there might be on the matches? And if race doesn't exist (as some people say), how can you still single out Africans or Asians in the stands? Yes, I find it contradictory.
If these threads continue to blossom every now and then, I can see a future for threads about: "Why are there so few fat people at Goodison?"
And people will say: "I remember during the 2000s, a good 70% of the supporters chanted "fat Spanish waiter" at Rafael Benitez. The whole Goodison crowd screamed "you're fat and bald" to Wayne Rooney. There were terrible times for a while, but thankfully nobody says anything nasty these days.
If you are justifying people calling others fat, bald, ugly and so on. Does that make you a moron?
71 Posted 22/10/2010 at 17:41:30
Judging from your e.mail address, you are in Sweden... and perhaps Swedish? How did you end up with the name "Kevin Spencer'? I'm intrigued....
Anyway, even in Swedish (or whatever your mother tongue is), I'm pretty sure the concept of "present tense" is quite distinct from "past tense". We also make this distinction in English. So, when you write, in the present tense that many people refer to Everton as "The white club", I become concerned because I am very sure that is a completely untrue statement, and what's more, it's hugely inflammatory.
And so it turns out: you're talking about the past!!! And even then, it was a minority that has been progressively marginalized over the many subsequent years.
More poor English: "And if race doesn't exist (as some people say)... : ? Of course race exists! ? I think you mean: "And if racism doesn't exist (as some people say)" ? well, they are striving for an ideal world were racism doesn't exist; most right-thinking people hope for this ... you just seem to be arguing idiotic side issues for the sake of it. Which really justifies Mike Allison's comments about you.
Since you express yourself so poorly, my advice would be that you restrain from posting on topics like this, that you get someone with better English to check what you are saying, and that you stop posting to this website using a false name. Okay?
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