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Moyes questioned his methods

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Moyes "can't put his finger on our poor start"?

OK Einstein, try this: All our strikers are injured, so we ship out the one remaining Premier League quality striker who isn't, i.e. James Vaughan, who is scoring for fun, and bring in Jermaine Beckford, who is completely out of his depth at this level.

His 'cameo' at Spurs was a complete embarrassment. Is that any clearer, Dave? A cheque to any charity will do. Thanks
Roberto Granelli, Twickenham     Posted 27/10/2010 at 08:43:22

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Sam Morrison
1   Posted 27/10/2010 at 15:43:09

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I'd admit football management isn't rocket science but neither can it be summed up in one sarcastic paragraph. Surely the bad start was down to a multitude of reasons, one of which I agree was the inexperience of Beckford at this level, but other reasons, it could be argued, were the decisions of the manager, the performances of other players (for example, not playing balls for Beckford to run onto as he was used to at Leeds), confidence, form, luck, and lots of other teams trying to get off to a good start themselves.
John Keating
2   Posted 27/10/2010 at 15:48:21

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Sorry Roberto not sure if I agree with the Premier League quality striker quote. Maybe one day.
Mike McLean
3   Posted 27/10/2010 at 15:55:30

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An insistance on playing poor opposition pre season?
Phil Roberts
4   Posted 27/10/2010 at 15:57:36

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Scoring for fun in the Championship.....

3 in his first game, nothing in the next, sent off in the next and then a penalty in the last one.


Next time check your facts about Vaughan so you don't look a fool.
Michael Kenrick
5   Posted 27/10/2010 at 15:59:11

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So Moyes's plan was his usual "slowly, slowly" 5-10-15-minute cameos as he bedded the 'lad' (26 years old!) in to the rigours of the Premier League. All fine and good.

Except you then have Tim Cahill saying that he just needs "consistent game time". Maybe that's the classic player's view of the problem of poor form ? you have to play yourself out of it.

But my concern watching Beckford is that it's not about form but ability. Yes, he may be able to strike the ball... but he has to do a lot more on the field to actually get the ball and use it. Currently, he looks absolutely awful.
Steve Collins
6   Posted 27/10/2010 at 16:16:16

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James Vaughan really?

He was definitely not the answer to our prayers.

He's mostly injured and as far as my mind stretches back im not sure he scored many when he did play.

There are a lot of strikers who have come and gone from banging them in in the championship to scoring nouth in the prem.

Prime example David Nugent.

Beckford had a great record in the lower leagues and was defo worth a punt. For god sake he was free.
Kunal Desai
7   Posted 27/10/2010 at 16:08:15

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Beckford is just a rubbish signing and come the end of the season it will be proved a rubbish signing. Who else were in for him apart from us???? Exactly.
GJ Butler
8   Posted 27/10/2010 at 16:23:10

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Vaughan: 2 premier league goals in past 3 seasons. 7 premier league goals in total since making his debut 7 seasons ago. Hugely unfortunate with injuries, yes. Premier quality? No. Hence why he is at Palace. He has been tried at premier level and failed. Mores the pity, coz I really liked him when he first came on the scene.

Beckford: 72 goals in 126 appearances for Leeds. Undoubtedly playing at a much lower standard, but obviously can score goals. Cost nothing, worth a gamble?

Given the options presented to Moyes and considering we had zero money to spend, do you go with a guy who you know cant cut it or do you try a guy who just might?

Honestly, I was happy when we signed him. I thought if he's not up to it, he'll be gone in a year, no harm done. If he does well, it's a bonus. I wont be slagging him off after 3 starts (in a side that was struggling, which cant help) and 3 substitute appearances though. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for a little longer than that. Till Friday anyway...
Max Main
9   Posted 27/10/2010 at 16:29:43

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Not the best logic there, Kunal. Who else was in for Cahill or Jagielka when we signed them?

Beckford was a cheap risk. Looks shite to me, but I'd rather have him around than the bolsa wood legged, 12 league goals ever, James Vaughan.
Dave Lynch
10   Posted 27/10/2010 at 16:35:15

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We are not scoring because we are not creating chances.
Moyes insistance of playing the lone striker does not equate to free scoring and actually hinders the striker.
Beckford and the Yak are box players, we dont get into the opponents box often enough.
Christopher McCullough
11   Posted 27/10/2010 at 17:04:40

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Good point, Dave Lynch#10

One of the reasons that Kenny Millar is on fire up in Scotland is his determination to be in the box asap as often as possible. I think Cahill and Yak, or whoever is playing, should be encouraged to do the same, more often. An obvious point that may easily be overlooked.
Danny Broderick
12   Posted 27/10/2010 at 17:05:01

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I think this post is a bit harsh on Beckford. The season started in August, and we are only in October! You take any top striker in world football (Drogba etc) and they would have struggled to score goals for us the way we were playing early on. I am convinced Beckford will score some important goals for us as the season carries on. And even if he doesn't, we can sell him at the end of the season and make a profit because we got him for nothing.
At the moment he is only a squad man, but it's a bit harsh to be judging him when he has been fed on scraps every time he has played.
John Daley
13   Posted 27/10/2010 at 17:11:52

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James Vaughan: 11 starts, 9 goals. Sorry to say, but that's probably a better scoring record for the Blues than Jermaine Beckford's ever going to have.

I'd love him to come good and start scoring for fun but I just can't see it happening. I also tend to disagree with Moyes assertion that the guy would've benefitted more from being gradually eased in with 'cameo' appearances from the bench. If anything he needs as many starts as he can get if he's ever going to acclimatize to the higher demands of the Premier League. It might also have helped if Moyes had actually instructed his midfielders to try and play a fucking through ball for the guy to run on to for a change.
Steve Pugh
14   Posted 27/10/2010 at 17:32:33

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Well said Danny (#12), not to mention that it took Drogba a heck of a long time to really start scoring for Chelsea, and moving from league one these days is probably a bigger change than coming from abroad. In terms of football obviously.

Roberto, Think how long it took some of our other gambles to bed in, Jags, Baines, Arteta, Pienaar, Felli. Don't get down on the lad yet, sit back and watch, if he is still struggling this time next year then come back and say I told you so, this is too soon.
Andrew Conroy
15   Posted 27/10/2010 at 17:48:38

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The hard time that Jermaine Beckford is getting is well out of order IMHO.

As others have suggested, we've pretty much never played to his strengths, ie balls threaded through for him to run onto.

The ONE time I recall us doing this was in the opening minutes against Villa. Beckford turned Richard Dunne superbly, had acres of space to move into on goal, but was cynically hacked down, resulting in Dunne seeing yellow. At this point I thought the penny had dropped with rest of the team re getting the best out of Beckford, and that if they carried on feeding him in this way Dunne was bound to get sent off. But I was wrong on both counts.

I find it very frustrating and rather sad that we've brought this guy in on the basis of particular strengths, yet aren't playing to them at all. He deserves better, and the most frustrating is that we'd be getting better performances from him if bloody Moyes didn't want him to turn him into a sodding Andy Johnson/ James Beattie zero chasing down every inch of space.
Andrew Conroy
16   Posted 27/10/2010 at 18:00:56

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ps Roberto, it's a bit much to blame our crap start down to Beckford!
Ian McDowell
17   Posted 27/10/2010 at 18:37:07

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I think that Beckford needs more time, it is a bit early to judge him yet.

I have always been impressed by Vaughan particularly he is quick has bundles of energy and ways works hard.

I don?t know if Moyes has a problem with Vaughan as he always seems reluctant to play him, but the spurs game would have been ideal to see Vaughan come off the bench instead of Beckford.
Jimmy Hacking
18   Posted 27/10/2010 at 18:54:52

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Its a bit harsh to pin all the blame on Beckford; we have a striker whos always injured, a striker who'd call Stanley Matthews "whipper-snapper" and a striker who'd struggle to score in the championship, never mind the prem.

And some of you lot were seriously talking about us winning the league this year? really?? with those striking options???!!!?!
Alan Clarke
19   Posted 27/10/2010 at 19:04:45

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One thing I can't stand is if a player doesn't put a shift in. Beckford hardly broke into a sweat against Newcastle. He's shite end of. We will waste a lot of time and points waiting for him to come good. Moyes should get rid of bily asap and use the money to buy a decent striker.
Jon Cox
20   Posted 27/10/2010 at 19:03:17

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Not only has Moyes loaned Vaughan to give him game time but more importantly to see how the cut and thrust of lower league football effects the lad injury wise.

I dont think DM has ever had a problem with his skill and work rate and as such if it goes well with injuries I think we'll see James back at Goodison in the near future.

I think with Beckford as with most footballers, he falls (at the moment) into one of two catergories.

The first being the guy who can come on as sub. and change a game and get into the pace straight away as in the super sub. bit. Or secondly cannot do this and has to be on the pitch from the start.

Before we get on Beckford's back I'd like to see him play a few games from the start before judgement by all of us is passed.

Just think if he turns out like Timmy at some point in the future.

The problem with football is that everyone wants everything now. Life doesn't work that way. I'll bet most people still do the lottery and never had six numbers but still gamble their fiver every week.

Lets just wait and see.
Robert Daniels
21   Posted 27/10/2010 at 19:23:53

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I think, as others have said, our poor starts are down to the stength of the opposition we meet in pre-season.

I don't think keeping Vaughan would have made much difference either, I think the lad needed a change of scenery, and a run in the lower leagues to get his confidence back.

As for Beckford, I actually see a good player there; not quite up to speed yet, obviously, but a good striker nonetheless. I believe his time will come, a bit quicker, if Moyes gives him more playing time for fitness, Premier League fitness, that is.

Cahill recently sung his praises about how good he thinks he is, and ok, he's hardly gonna say he's shite either, but he didn't have to say anything.

Paul Rideout took ten games to start really looking the part, and he had more experience than Beckford; Keown looked crap as well.

Some people thought the same about Fellaini (not me, i might add) and one deluded person still thinks he is, as was recently posted on this site.

Cut him some slack, and we should see the real Beckford.
David Hallwood
22   Posted 27/10/2010 at 19:34:11

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Re Beckford, whether he is another Stuart Barlow or another Gary Linacre (and if I was a betting man I?d go for the 1st comparison) we won't know until Moyes plays him to his strengths. Anyone that remembers when Linacre came to the club Kendall changed the system to accommodate him-quick ball over the top with Linacre on the shoulder of the defender to run on to. I cannot quite understand why Moyes got a player like Beckford and then doesn?t use his pace.

I keep thinking about Fellani who looked like a complete dog when he first came, until he found his feet at the same time that he found his position.
David Price
23   Posted 27/10/2010 at 19:49:14

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Dave #21, valid point and just the one i was thinking of when reading the posts.
It could be a Moyes thing with attacking football.
His first thought is keep it tight etc and the midfield options will make and take the chances.
Going back to the Lineker point, the team from 85-87, at a guess without checking probably scored a similar amount of goals. In 86, Gary got 30 of them with the midfield in single numbers, 87, saw it spread around again, probably double figures for 3 or 4 of them.
We should have changed our style to suit Beckford, in the way we played against Utd and Liverpool.
He's not worth writing off just yet, two things will happen, he either makes it or a future sale recoups the wages spent.
Ian McDowell
24   Posted 27/10/2010 at 21:12:04

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I find it quite ridiculous to compare Beckford to Lineker.

I think Beckford needs time, but I seriously want to see Vaughan back at Goodison.
David Price
25   Posted 27/10/2010 at 22:25:21

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Ian, it's the team play comparison to suit an individual strengths rather than player v player.
Jamie Tulacz
26   Posted 27/10/2010 at 22:50:28

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Ridiculous to start judging Beckford yet. As Moyes said, he was intended to be 3rd choice, and brought through slowly, only Saha and the Yak couldn't get fit for the start of the season

As good a player as Vaughan may become with a run of games, unfortunately he's never been able to string a run of more than 3 or 4 games together for us, hence being loaned out for a bit of game time and extra fitness.
Jay Harris
27   Posted 27/10/2010 at 23:12:31

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How can we blame a lad that cost nothing when Mr 24/7 and his sidekick knew quite well we needed a Right sided goalscoring MF player but obviously that would have cost money and wasnt for "expert's fees" for DK.

In addition Senor 75 grand a week was atrocious in our early season games but I dont see anybody posting that it was all his fault and "he'll never make it".

As Phil Neville said it is a team game and every player looked substandard particularly against Newcastle.

Very unfair to attach any blame to Beckford.
Jason Heng
28   Posted 28/10/2010 at 03:31:47

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I think the question was, why loan out Vaughan to get "a run of games" in the Championship when Yak and Saha are unfit / injured?

Isn't this the best opportunity to do so when he is fit? Vaughan has scored consistently whenever he has the games to do so. Definitely a better gamble than Beckford when the chips are down.
Craig Taylor
29   Posted 28/10/2010 at 07:53:55

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One name for January: Robbie Keane.

He is the best our budget can buy. Is a natural goal scorer.

Forget his Reds history (I am sure he is trying too).
Andrew Ellams
30   Posted 28/10/2010 at 09:35:41

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I don't follow the stats etc. too closely but I think I'm right in saying that no Everton striker has scored a league goal since April. How can we pin the blame for that on one man?
Tony J Williams
31   Posted 28/10/2010 at 13:10:09

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Mike #3, it's not done the Redshite any good this season.
Leon Perrin
32   Posted 28/10/2010 at 14:36:56

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I think Moyes has tried a more "footballing" approach this season and its taking time for the team to get it right, we had shit luck in those first games but a bit more latterly eg Arteta's goal being allowed against the shite.
I'm not a great fan of Moyes but can see he's going against his defensive instincts and having a go.
Beckford is a good player just suffering in this transitional phase, he'll score the winner in the FA semi final and hit the bar in the final with hibbo netting the rebound for the winner.
Vishal Poorundersingh
33   Posted 28/10/2010 at 15:11:44

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U r right Leon Perrin @ 32
Tony Cheek
34   Posted 28/10/2010 at 16:03:27

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Beckford HAS proved (so far) to have been a bad investment, one which DM has been "forced " to play , although he doesnt deem him ready for the big time . I am not entirely convinced the lads not good enough , and will give to the end of the season . Just got a feeling that its lack of confidence that is the main problem , and maybe a couple of goals will turn him into a different player ....maybe !!
But one thing I can never understand is why Everton never turn to the Norwegian market for good bargain buys . Recently Hannover bought Moa , who has been knocking them in for Vålerenga for the last couple of seasons and is now doing the same in the German Bundesliga. Now, at the moment there is a player called Erik Husekleppp playing for Brann in Bergen who I believe would do a very good job for us and quite sure he would jump at the chance in the january transfer window. I would imagine he would cost about 1.5 mill....
Have a look on youtube here , see what u think !!!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESE6jtjUIkU
Danny Broderick
35   Posted 28/10/2010 at 17:07:49

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Tony Cheek,

Beckford hasn't proved to be a bad investment so far. We got him for nothing. If it doesn't work out, we will sell him for £1 million, say, and he won't have cost us a penny. If anything, he was and is a very good investment!
Tony J Williams
36   Posted 28/10/2010 at 17:27:44

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What does "will give to the end of the season" actually mean?

Come the end of the season and he is still playing gash...then what?......you........willl......ermmmm.....what?

The only person who will give him anything is the manager of the team.
Liu Weixian
37   Posted 28/10/2010 at 17:41:26

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It's still early days. It's a huge step up from the lower divisions to the Premier League and it's rather unreasonable to expect a player to make the transition so quickly. We were playing poorly before the win at Birmingham and any striker would have struggled to score. The hoofball didn't help either.

Beckford should be given more time to adapt to the Premier League. He just needs his first goal to get going.
Tony Cheek
38   Posted 28/10/2010 at 17:57:06

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Danny Broderick, doesnt Jermaine Beckford get paid for playing for Everton....there went that million!!!
Tony Cheek
39   Posted 28/10/2010 at 17:59:21

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Tony J...just "a phrase of speech"...means simply that we should give him a chance ......god , one really has to be careful what one writes in here!!!
Danny Broderick
40   Posted 28/10/2010 at 18:20:27

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Tony,
Either he will be a success or a flop. If he's a success, we've got a bargain. If he's a flop, we'll sell him and recoup every single penny we've spent on him.
So like I say, he's a good investment.
Ernie Baywood
41   Posted 29/10/2010 at 12:16:13

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Agree Danny. There's nothing to lose here. Not often you get the chance to take a punt with no real risk.

And if you ask me, blaming our early results on Beckford is wide of the mark. Have we forgotten the player selections down the right hand side already?
Ged Dwyer
42   Posted 29/10/2010 at 13:08:29

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Spot on Roberto. Vaughan has shown he can perform and score in the top flight but he has been given one start in the league in 4 seasons. How the hell is he expected to develop. He has shown the promise but rather than give him a run in the first team Moyes turns to someone totally not ready. Another unfair and stupid Moyes decision.

It also took Moyes a year to finally see where Coleman should be playing and the team haven't looked back since he was given his chance at wide right.

Tony J Williams
43   Posted 29/10/2010 at 13:40:24

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Ged how is not trusting a player with the same injury record as Shandy Andy to start the game unfair or stupid? You are simply wasting a sub, as you know for sure he won't last the 90.

The lad hasn't managed to play more than 4 games on the bounce... probably ever since he turned professional, yet you want to pin your hopes on him and suggest the manager is being unfair by not starting him.
Ged Dwyer
44   Posted 29/10/2010 at 14:02:03

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Sorry Tony, I forgot, we must not ever criticise our beloved Moyes must we?

Saha, Anichebe and Yakubu are never injured are they? At times this season we've had no strikers on the bench apart from Beckford and Vaughan is ideal to bring on especially when nothing is happening upfront.

Remember last season when we couldn't get a win from anywhere and Vaughan came on against Burnley and made the breakthrough which set up a priceless win from which we never looked back?

Vaughan has had his injuries, that is the only doubt I have about him so give him a run in the team until he gets injured or not. No your right Tony let's play Beckford. How many league goals has he scored? The Yak has been knocking them in too hasn't he?

Tony J Williams
45   Posted 29/10/2010 at 14:54:43

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Ged, you can criticise him as much as you want, I am merely pointing out that your weapon of choice (Vaughan) is a a bit of a blunt sabre really.
Ged Dwyer
46   Posted 29/10/2010 at 15:01:59

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Tony, and I'm saying to you Vaughan has done more for Everton when he's played than Beckford and he's proven quality. And it was ridiculous to loan him out when we were short of strikers, just like it was to have Coleman loaned out last season when he could have been playing right midfield when Donovan went back the States.
Tony J Williams
47   Posted 29/10/2010 at 16:15:47

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Ged, how is he proven quality? he has scored a handfull of goals in 4 years and been injured for 90% of that same time.

I think it is a master stroke loaning him out, get fit, get confidence......hang on he tried that last season and every loan ended when he got injured.......again.

I don't want to come across as a Vaughan basher, as he is the one forward that excites me (in a footy and non gay way) but he simply is even more balsa like than Saha and I have no doubt that within the next couple of weeks he will get injured playing for Palace.

I would rather that we give a fully fit prospect a go whilst the other striker gets some game time against lesser players and will hopefully get stronger physically and psychologically.
Ged Dwyer
48   Posted 29/10/2010 at 16:49:21

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Tony - He is proven quality because he has scored 9 goals in a few substitute appearances. Am I missing something here or is he still fit at Palace? Given a chance this season Vaughan might have provided quite a few goals and if he had eventually got injured then at least he would have got us off to a better start. Obviously, we will never know now.

The blunt sabre's you talk about have been Beckford and Yakubu. The Yak worked hard in the first half against Liverpool (the first time this season) and he was knackered in the second half. This is hardly a player who is fit.
I notice you have ignored the Coleman point.
Tony J Williams
49   Posted 29/10/2010 at 17:18:12

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Ged he has scored 9 goals in 48 appearances spread over 6 seasons.....Proven goalscorers stats them!!!

I ignored the Coleman point because a) I wasn't discussing him b) he hasn't been injured for about 4 seasons c) I genuinely believe that helping Blackpool get promotion was massively better than having a few games from the bench in the Premiership and most importantly d) We had our best run of results in the time he was loaned out so what's your point?
Ged Dwyer
50   Posted 29/10/2010 at 17:23:52

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Tony ? These are mainly substitute appearances and quite a lot for only a few minutes as I'm sure you know. If our strikers had been scoring for fun you might have a point. Remind me how many league goals have Beckford and The Yak scored this season?

I think you know the answer to Roberto's original letter. Moyes signed Beckford so he'll play him over Vaughan every time.

Ben Stoker
51   Posted 29/10/2010 at 19:17:55

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I think Moyes lost confidence in Vaughan when he was put through in the arsenal game a 2-1 up... final minutes, could have made it 3-1 but he missed a one on one with Almunia ? and he's not exactly the greatest keeper of them all is he. Vaughan needs confidence and match fitness, and if he's not going to get it at Everton this season, then let him ply his trade in the lower leagues.
Tony J Williams
52   Posted 29/10/2010 at 19:45:04

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Ged, it doesn't matter. The facts are that he has scored 8 goals since his debut goal, ironically against Palace, in the 2004-05 season. That to me is not a proven scorer by any view.

Remind me how many games Beckford has played and also remind me how many Yakubu scored in his first season... again, what's your point? We are discussing Vaughan.
Ged Dwyer
53   Posted 29/10/2010 at 20:20:11

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Tony - I will remind you that Vaughan has started once in the league in 4 seasons because the manager won't give him a chance, and that he scored the most important goal for us last season. A point not lost on the knowledgeable supporters of Everton.

Ben - If Moyes lost confidence with Vaughan over one missed chance when he had torn Arsenal's defence to shreds after coming on as a sub how come he has kept faith with The Yak after many missed chances this season. Just shows the mindset doesn't it.
Ben Stoker
54   Posted 29/10/2010 at 21:05:22

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I suppose. I'm not Vaughan bashing I just think that that is what Moyes thinks. If he has a relatively successful loan period (i.e. no injuries, a few goals), then he should be back on the bench at least...
Ged Dwyer
55   Posted 29/10/2010 at 21:11:15

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Thanks Ben, totally agree.
Tony J Williams
56   Posted 29/10/2010 at 22:15:20

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Ged, I will also remind you that for those 4 seasons he hasn't been fit for most of them.

Again, how can he be a proven scorer if he is never fit? 9 goals in a 6 season career does not a proven goalscorer make.

So because some fans think his one goal against Burnley was the most important goal of the whole season this again proves he is a proven goalscorer? A player who is yet to get into double figures?

I hope that he has a successful loan period and gets over his injuries, as I believe he could be a great player but not at the moment.
Ged Dwyer
57   Posted 29/10/2010 at 23:44:40

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Tony - I never said Vaughan is great, I said he had quality. A lot of the time he has been fit but Moyes wouldn't play him. Roberto's letter said why play Beckford who is out of his depth and not Vaughan, in reference to our poor start.

Everyone knows The Yak will eventually score when the going is good but not when you are up against it. But Vaughan works hard, has pace and makes things happen around him as well as having an eye for goal. (His goal ratio per minutes played shows that) and is very useful to have around when the team are struggling, like last season. And at the start of this season he has been fit the whole time. So, when your striker options are limited, it is stupid to have a good striker on loan.

Robert Daniels
58   Posted 29/10/2010 at 23:59:43

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Ged, I agree that Vaughan looked a great prospect at one time. But his last couple of appearances he has looked like a headless chicken. He needs to find his form somewhere else and, if he is still a Premier League player, it will be obvious to all of us by his performances.

When he first appeared, I thought we had an amazing goalscorer/player... but, because of his injuries and Moyes's lack of playing him when he has been fit, he seems to have lost it to me! I hope I'm wrong for James!

He needs to be where he is right now and Moyes has done the right thing to send him out there. Only time will tell... but I think, for now, Beckford looks a better prospect!
Tony J Williams
59   Posted 30/10/2010 at 19:10:18

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"Tony - I never said Vaughan is great,"

No you said he was a proven goalscorer.....which he isn't

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