Moyes "can't put his finger on our poor start"?
OK Einstein, try this: All our strikers are injured, so we ship out the one remaining Premier League quality striker who isn't, i.e. James Vaughan, who is scoring for fun, and bring in Jermaine Beckford, who is completely out of his depth at this level.
His 'cameo' at Spurs was a complete embarrassment.
Is that any clearer, Dave? A cheque to any charity will do.
Roberto Granelli, Posted 27/10/2010 at 08:43:22
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1 Posted 27/10/2010 at 15:43:09
2 Posted 27/10/2010 at 15:48:21
3 Posted 27/10/2010 at 15:55:30
4 Posted 27/10/2010 at 15:57:36
3 in his first game, nothing in the next, sent off in the next and then a penalty in the last one.
Next time check your facts about Vaughan so you don't look a fool.
5 Posted 27/10/2010 at 15:59:11
Except you then have Tim Cahill saying that he just needs "consistent game time". Maybe that's the classic player's view of the problem of poor form ? you have to play yourself out of it.
But my concern watching Beckford is that it's not about form but ability. Yes, he may be able to strike the ball... but he has to do a lot more on the field to actually get the ball and use it. Currently, he looks absolutely awful.
6 Posted 27/10/2010 at 16:16:16
He was definitely not the answer to our prayers.
He's mostly injured and as far as my mind stretches back im not sure he scored many when he did play.
There are a lot of strikers who have come and gone from banging them in in the championship to scoring nouth in the prem.
Prime example David Nugent.
Beckford had a great record in the lower leagues and was defo worth a punt. For god sake he was free.
7 Posted 27/10/2010 at 16:08:15
8 Posted 27/10/2010 at 16:23:10
Beckford: 72 goals in 126 appearances for Leeds. Undoubtedly playing at a much lower standard, but obviously can score goals. Cost nothing, worth a gamble?
Given the options presented to Moyes and considering we had zero money to spend, do you go with a guy who you know cant cut it or do you try a guy who just might?
Honestly, I was happy when we signed him. I thought if he's not up to it, he'll be gone in a year, no harm done. If he does well, it's a bonus. I wont be slagging him off after 3 starts (in a side that was struggling, which cant help) and 3 substitute appearances though. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for a little longer than that. Till Friday anyway...
9 Posted 27/10/2010 at 16:29:43
Beckford was a cheap risk. Looks shite to me, but I'd rather have him around than the bolsa wood legged, 12 league goals ever, James Vaughan.
10 Posted 27/10/2010 at 16:35:15
Moyes insistance of playing the lone striker does not equate to free scoring and actually hinders the striker.
Beckford and the Yak are box players, we dont get into the opponents box often enough.
11 Posted 27/10/2010 at 17:04:40
One of the reasons that Kenny Millar is on fire up in Scotland is his determination to be in the box asap as often as possible. I think Cahill and Yak, or whoever is playing, should be encouraged to do the same, more often. An obvious point that may easily be overlooked.
12 Posted 27/10/2010 at 17:05:01
At the moment he is only a squad man, but it's a bit harsh to be judging him when he has been fed on scraps every time he has played.
13 Posted 27/10/2010 at 17:11:52
I'd love him to come good and start scoring for fun but I just can't see it happening. I also tend to disagree with Moyes assertion that the guy would've benefitted more from being gradually eased in with 'cameo' appearances from the bench. If anything he needs as many starts as he can get if he's ever going to acclimatize to the higher demands of the Premier League. It might also have helped if Moyes had actually instructed his midfielders to try and play a fucking through ball for the guy to run on to for a change.
14 Posted 27/10/2010 at 17:32:33
Roberto, Think how long it took some of our other gambles to bed in, Jags, Baines, Arteta, Pienaar, Felli. Don't get down on the lad yet, sit back and watch, if he is still struggling this time next year then come back and say I told you so, this is too soon.
15 Posted 27/10/2010 at 17:48:38
As others have suggested, we've pretty much never played to his strengths, ie balls threaded through for him to run onto.
The ONE time I recall us doing this was in the opening minutes against Villa. Beckford turned Richard Dunne superbly, had acres of space to move into on goal, but was cynically hacked down, resulting in Dunne seeing yellow. At this point I thought the penny had dropped with rest of the team re getting the best out of Beckford, and that if they carried on feeding him in this way Dunne was bound to get sent off. But I was wrong on both counts.
I find it very frustrating and rather sad that we've brought this guy in on the basis of particular strengths, yet aren't playing to them at all. He deserves better, and the most frustrating is that we'd be getting better performances from him if bloody Moyes didn't want him to turn him into a sodding Andy Johnson/ James Beattie zero chasing down every inch of space.
16 Posted 27/10/2010 at 18:00:56
17 Posted 27/10/2010 at 18:37:07
I have always been impressed by Vaughan particularly he is quick has bundles of energy and ways works hard.
I don?t know if Moyes has a problem with Vaughan as he always seems reluctant to play him, but the spurs game would have been ideal to see Vaughan come off the bench instead of Beckford.
18 Posted 27/10/2010 at 18:54:52
And some of you lot were seriously talking about us winning the league this year? really?? with those striking options???!!!?!
19 Posted 27/10/2010 at 19:04:45
20 Posted 27/10/2010 at 19:03:17
I dont think DM has ever had a problem with his skill and work rate and as such if it goes well with injuries I think we'll see James back at Goodison in the near future.
I think with Beckford as with most footballers, he falls (at the moment) into one of two catergories.
The first being the guy who can come on as sub. and change a game and get into the pace straight away as in the super sub. bit. Or secondly cannot do this and has to be on the pitch from the start.
Before we get on Beckford's back I'd like to see him play a few games from the start before judgement by all of us is passed.
Just think if he turns out like Timmy at some point in the future.
The problem with football is that everyone wants everything now. Life doesn't work that way. I'll bet most people still do the lottery and never had six numbers but still gamble their fiver every week.
Lets just wait and see.
21 Posted 27/10/2010 at 19:23:53
I don't think keeping Vaughan would have made much difference either, I think the lad needed a change of scenery, and a run in the lower leagues to get his confidence back.
As for Beckford, I actually see a good player there; not quite up to speed yet, obviously, but a good striker nonetheless. I believe his time will come, a bit quicker, if Moyes gives him more playing time for fitness, Premier League fitness, that is.
Cahill recently sung his praises about how good he thinks he is, and ok, he's hardly gonna say he's shite either, but he didn't have to say anything.
Paul Rideout took ten games to start really looking the part, and he had more experience than Beckford; Keown looked crap as well.
Some people thought the same about Fellaini (not me, i might add) and one deluded person still thinks he is, as was recently posted on this site.
Cut him some slack, and we should see the real Beckford.
22 Posted 27/10/2010 at 19:34:11
I keep thinking about Fellani who looked like a complete dog when he first came, until he found his feet at the same time that he found his position.
23 Posted 27/10/2010 at 19:49:14
It could be a Moyes thing with attacking football.
His first thought is keep it tight etc and the midfield options will make and take the chances.
Going back to the Lineker point, the team from 85-87, at a guess without checking probably scored a similar amount of goals. In 86, Gary got 30 of them with the midfield in single numbers, 87, saw it spread around again, probably double figures for 3 or 4 of them.
We should have changed our style to suit Beckford, in the way we played against Utd and Liverpool.
He's not worth writing off just yet, two things will happen, he either makes it or a future sale recoups the wages spent.
24 Posted 27/10/2010 at 21:12:04
I think Beckford needs time, but I seriously want to see Vaughan back at Goodison.
25 Posted 27/10/2010 at 22:25:21
26 Posted 27/10/2010 at 22:50:28
As good a player as Vaughan may become with a run of games, unfortunately he's never been able to string a run of more than 3 or 4 games together for us, hence being loaned out for a bit of game time and extra fitness.
27 Posted 27/10/2010 at 23:12:31
In addition Senor 75 grand a week was atrocious in our early season games but I dont see anybody posting that it was all his fault and "he'll never make it".
As Phil Neville said it is a team game and every player looked substandard particularly against Newcastle.
Very unfair to attach any blame to Beckford.
28 Posted 28/10/2010 at 03:31:47
Isn't this the best opportunity to do so when he is fit? Vaughan has scored consistently whenever he has the games to do so. Definitely a better gamble than Beckford when the chips are down.
29 Posted 28/10/2010 at 07:53:55
He is the best our budget can buy. Is a natural goal scorer.
Forget his Reds history (I am sure he is trying too).
30 Posted 28/10/2010 at 09:35:41
31 Posted 28/10/2010 at 13:10:09
32 Posted 28/10/2010 at 14:36:56
I'm not a great fan of Moyes but can see he's going against his defensive instincts and having a go.
Beckford is a good player just suffering in this transitional phase, he'll score the winner in the FA semi final and hit the bar in the final with hibbo netting the rebound for the winner.
33 Posted 28/10/2010 at 15:11:44
34 Posted 28/10/2010 at 16:03:27
But one thing I can never understand is why Everton never turn to the Norwegian market for good bargain buys . Recently Hannover bought Moa , who has been knocking them in for Vålerenga for the last couple of seasons and is now doing the same in the German Bundesliga. Now, at the moment there is a player called Erik Husekleppp playing for Brann in Bergen who I believe would do a very good job for us and quite sure he would jump at the chance in the january transfer window. I would imagine he would cost about 1.5 mill....
Have a look on youtube here , see what u think !!!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESE6jtjUIkU
35 Posted 28/10/2010 at 17:07:49
Beckford hasn't proved to be a bad investment so far. We got him for nothing. If it doesn't work out, we will sell him for £1 million, say, and he won't have cost us a penny. If anything, he was and is a very good investment!
36 Posted 28/10/2010 at 17:27:44
Come the end of the season and he is still playing gash...then what?......you........willl......ermmmm.....what?
The only person who will give him anything is the manager of the team.
37 Posted 28/10/2010 at 17:41:26
Beckford should be given more time to adapt to the Premier League. He just needs his first goal to get going.
38 Posted 28/10/2010 at 17:57:06
39 Posted 28/10/2010 at 17:59:21
40 Posted 28/10/2010 at 18:20:27
Either he will be a success or a flop. If he's a success, we've got a bargain. If he's a flop, we'll sell him and recoup every single penny we've spent on him.
So like I say, he's a good investment.
41 Posted 29/10/2010 at 12:16:13
And if you ask me, blaming our early results on Beckford is wide of the mark. Have we forgotten the player selections down the right hand side already?
42 Posted 29/10/2010 at 13:08:29
It also took Moyes a year to finally see where Coleman should be playing and the team haven't looked back since he was given his chance at wide right.
43 Posted 29/10/2010 at 13:40:24
The lad hasn't managed to play more than 4 games on the bounce... probably ever since he turned professional, yet you want to pin your hopes on him and suggest the manager is being unfair by not starting him.
44 Posted 29/10/2010 at 14:02:03
Saha, Anichebe and Yakubu are never injured are they? At times this season we've had no strikers on the bench apart from Beckford and Vaughan is ideal to bring on especially when nothing is happening upfront.
Remember last season when we couldn't get a win from anywhere and Vaughan came on against Burnley and made the breakthrough which set up a priceless win from which we never looked back?
Vaughan has had his injuries, that is the only doubt I have about him so give him a run in the team until he gets injured or not. No your right Tony let's play Beckford. How many league goals has he scored? The Yak has been knocking them in too hasn't he?
45 Posted 29/10/2010 at 14:54:43
46 Posted 29/10/2010 at 15:01:59
47 Posted 29/10/2010 at 16:15:47
I think it is a master stroke loaning him out, get fit, get confidence......hang on he tried that last season and every loan ended when he got injured.......again.
I don't want to come across as a Vaughan basher, as he is the one forward that excites me (in a footy and non gay way) but he simply is even more balsa like than Saha and I have no doubt that within the next couple of weeks he will get injured playing for Palace.
I would rather that we give a fully fit prospect a go whilst the other striker gets some game time against lesser players and will hopefully get stronger physically and psychologically.
48 Posted 29/10/2010 at 16:49:21
The blunt sabre's you talk about have been Beckford and Yakubu. The Yak worked hard in the first half against Liverpool (the first time this season) and he was knackered in the second half. This is hardly a player who is fit.
I notice you have ignored the Coleman point.
49 Posted 29/10/2010 at 17:18:12
I ignored the Coleman point because a) I wasn't discussing him b) he hasn't been injured for about 4 seasons c) I genuinely believe that helping Blackpool get promotion was massively better than having a few games from the bench in the Premiership and most importantly d) We had our best run of results in the time he was loaned out so what's your point?
50 Posted 29/10/2010 at 17:23:52
I think you know the answer to Roberto's original letter. Moyes signed Beckford so he'll play him over Vaughan every time.
51 Posted 29/10/2010 at 19:17:55
52 Posted 29/10/2010 at 19:45:04
Remind me how many games Beckford has played and also remind me how many Yakubu scored in his first season... again, what's your point? We are discussing Vaughan.
53 Posted 29/10/2010 at 20:20:11
Ben - If Moyes lost confidence with Vaughan over one missed chance when he had torn Arsenal's defence to shreds after coming on as a sub how come he has kept faith with The Yak after many missed chances this season. Just shows the mindset doesn't it.
54 Posted 29/10/2010 at 21:05:22
55 Posted 29/10/2010 at 21:11:15
56 Posted 29/10/2010 at 22:15:20
Again, how can he be a proven scorer if he is never fit? 9 goals in a 6 season career does not a proven goalscorer make.
So because some fans think his one goal against Burnley was the most important goal of the whole season this again proves he is a proven goalscorer? A player who is yet to get into double figures?
I hope that he has a successful loan period and gets over his injuries, as I believe he could be a great player but not at the moment.
57 Posted 29/10/2010 at 23:44:40
Everyone knows The Yak will eventually score when the going is good but not when you are up against it. But Vaughan works hard, has pace and makes things happen around him as well as having an eye for goal. (His goal ratio per minutes played shows that) and is very useful to have around when the team are struggling, like last season. And at the start of this season he has been fit the whole time. So, when your striker options are limited, it is stupid to have a good striker on loan.
58 Posted 29/10/2010 at 23:59:43
When he first appeared, I thought we had an amazing goalscorer/player... but, because of his injuries and Moyes's lack of playing him when he has been fit, he seems to have lost it to me! I hope I'm wrong for James!
He needs to be where he is right now and Moyes has done the right thing to send him out there. Only time will tell... but I think, for now, Beckford looks a better prospect!
59 Posted 30/10/2010 at 19:10:18
No you said he was a proven goalscorer.....which he isn't
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