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Time for Pienaar to get off the fence

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Recently I said on another thread that I thought we should have sold Pienaar in the Summer as he was patently not going to re-sign for the Blues and we could have got a fee for him to spend elsewhere on the squad. I still stand by that statement.

However, I would now like Pienaar to state his intentions. In recent days we have had statements on the matter from both Manager and Captain and a round of speculation as to his likely destination. But nothing from the player. I know he's not obliged to say anything. However, I do say that he owes it to the fans and more importantly to his Team to give a view as I think it will become increasngly unsettling for the squad to have such a key player remaining non-committal.
Steve Guy, Harrogate     Posted 28/10/2010 at 10:11:23

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Andy Mack
1   Posted 28/10/2010 at 14:18:46

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As has been discussed before Steve, I think the fact that he didn't commit before the World Cup, didn't sign on his return, and is now about the enter the "negotiations with other clubs" phase, speaks for itself.

Steven looks to be on his way at the end of the season. I'd like to hurl a torrent of rage his way, but you know what, he's still playing with heart for us and hasn't been offered what he and his agent thinks he is worth ? other players have.

EFC decided not to cash in in the summer or improve the offer so that's that really. We miss out on a fee and lose a key player. Contract negotiations the Everton way.
Chris Hannon
2   Posted 28/10/2010 at 14:40:07

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Do you not think Moyes is right? We only payed £2 million for him, he won't be on very big wages at the moment, so we have definitely got our money's worth, I suspect we have offered Pienaar in the region of £45-55,000 a week, could we not get two players on them wages? Say Bentley and Donovan?
Jay Harris
3   Posted 28/10/2010 at 14:42:47

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Have to agree with Andy.

Moyes knows his heart's here but his bank balance isn't and IMO the biggest mistake we made was giving Arteta £75,000 a week which has now set the benchmark.
Nick Entwistle
4   Posted 28/10/2010 at 14:57:38

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Does any one think Arteta would have stayed if not given his worth? We would all like to think so, but Everton had to give him the contract. I don't know when Tim's contract is up but he'll be wanting parity surely.
Norman Merrill
5   Posted 28/10/2010 at 14:56:04

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If as we are led to believe that Moyes is looking at certain players, then the only way we can enter the market in January is by somebody leaving.

I would like Pienaar to stay, but it seems from some reports on the continent, that maybe his head has been turned. The next transfer window will reveal all. Whether we are involved remains to be see.
Leon Perrin
6   Posted 28/10/2010 at 15:16:31

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I'm afraid when the top earners in the Prem are getting in the region of 200k a week and our top man is earning 75k is it any wonder we're just not at the races.
We can wring our hands and wail but each passing day we're so constrained is another day slipping further into obscurity, I don't blame Pienaar in the least.
Michael Kenrick
7   Posted 28/10/2010 at 15:22:55

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I think Norman's right: January and the transfer window... which is ONLY two months away(!?!) will determine if any of these much-touted European giants are really interested, and if they will beat Everton's offer.

If not, I can see him staying. I hope we'll all be nice to him.

What annoys me is the media speculation ? look at today's nonsense ? it's based on nothing more than a few comments from Moyes and Neville: no substance whatsoever.
Tony McNulty
8   Posted 28/10/2010 at 15:37:50

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As a devout Christian, Pienaar may well be aware of St Augustine?s words, which, if I recall properly from school, go something like: ?Speak, and if you must, use words.? I think he has spoken through his behaviour and it must be 90:10 that he?s going.

Tony J Williams
9   Posted 28/10/2010 at 15:42:57

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Ah well, he scored a handful of goals for us at the same or lesser rate than McFadden and has about the same assists as Bily... so, as much as I would like him to stay, I feel he will slip into obscurity simply because he won't have Baines behind him making him look so much better.

Baines even made Ossie look good on the left a few weeks ago.
Chris Briddon
10   Posted 28/10/2010 at 15:45:00

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I think you are all being rather unfair - he may not have said anything - but his actions on the pitch prove that he is completely commited to the EFC cause at present, and if that remains til the end of the season then I for one will be relatively happy.

Yes I would love him to sign a new contract, but providing it deosn't affect his game there is no reason to get rid. The only question but be if we wanted the money, but Dave is clearly happy to forgo that in favour of having him til the Summer, which is understandable.
Liam Reilly
11   Posted 28/10/2010 at 14:47:24

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We can only speculate about the terms being offered. I was my understanding that it wasn't the cash, but the lenght of the deal that was the stumbling block.

If he's going to leave we should tie him up on an inflated salary and sell him in the summer. That way the club and the player get compensated properly; a la Rooney, who I reckon will be off in the summer for a sizeable fee.

Larry Boner
12   Posted 28/10/2010 at 16:01:12

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The foreign teams will be lining up to take him, no fee for one of the top players in the PL.
Any business that allows a £10m asset to walk away for zilch is on the road to oblivion, oh sorry its Everton, forward planning not one of our strong points.
Expect derisory bids from Spurs and possibly Arsenal in January.
Chris Eagles and hopefully Charlie Adam to us.
Chris Rudd
13   Posted 28/10/2010 at 16:02:06

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Let's face it, what chance do we have of keeping hold of our better players when their contracts are up, when the jokers at OT are willing to pay workmanlike utility players like O'Shea, 80 grand a week? Not to mention what's going on at Middle Eastlands.

It's one thing to pay the so called 'superstars' of the game mega-money but when squad members are getting rewarded like this, creative players at clubs like ours are bound to have their heads turned and I for one can't really blame them.
Gerry Morrison
14   Posted 28/10/2010 at 16:38:04

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Tom (8) While we are on the subject, how about Mathew chapter 19 verse 24.
GJ Butler
15   Posted 28/10/2010 at 16:31:29

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Point well made Chris @ 13. Slightly off the topic, but what is the world coming to when John O'Shea is offered 80k a week? He is now out of Evertons wage bracket, and I wouldn't even have him near our 1st eleven. So how are we gonna compete with that?

As for Peinaar, the lad is here till the end of the season - Why would he move in January if we were to accept a derisory 2 million quid offer when he knows if he hangs on until his contract expires, the 2 million quid becomes his signing on fee.

The problem here is that his heart still appears to be in it right now while it all appears undecided, but come January & a pre-contract agreement with someone else and can we then really play him?? Is he gonna chase and harry fully committed when he knows he's gone in a few months? Doubt it.

Bertie Alloff
16   Posted 28/10/2010 at 17:02:46

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What it has to do with the guy's faith is beyond me. A lot of finger pointing going on here, perhaps those so critical of Steven should be referred to John 8:7, "He who is without sin cast the first stone!"
Mark Pierpoint
17   Posted 28/10/2010 at 17:18:34

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Talk of his non committal being a distraction to the players is something i am not sure about. Phil Neville has basically admitted he is going, and i am sure his closest collegues in that dressing room have known it for a long time. Apparently we were offered Bentley and Keane in exchange for him and Saha on deadline day, i don't know if that is bullshit or financially something EFC couldn't go for (wages etc.) but i feel we will regret it.

I for one have no problem with Pienaar not coming off the fence. It is crystal clear where we are, EFC and his valuations don't match. Whilst the ridiculous sums of money irritate me and make normal scenario incomparible to premiership footballers, in my line of work i don't feel that i have to justify myself to my collegues or my customer base (essentially what we are to both the everton board and players in the cold light of day) should i want to leave.

Pienaar has committed himself well this year and even if he did sign elsewhere come Jan i think he would continue to. That is all we can ask of him. If he ever did come back for a game i would for one give him a warm reception. This is a problem of Kenwright and Moyes, not him
Liu Weixian
18   Posted 28/10/2010 at 17:36:59

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If he wants to go, just let him go. He's been professional on the pitch and that's good enough for me.
Tom Bowers
19   Posted 28/10/2010 at 17:58:16

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Pienaar has been a good buy and still has a lot to offer but if Everton cannot reach an agreement then let him go in January as it's useless to keep an unhappy camper.It may depend on whether Donovan is coming back and the quicker that issue is clarified the better. The situation is tempered somewhat with the emergence of Coleman and of course they are expecting Fellaini to be back well before then. Getting the right consistancy in midfield is of paramount importance and the sooner this is resolved the better our results will be. Bily is another player who will probably be open to offers unless he starts putting in a shift or two.
Trevor Lynes
20   Posted 28/10/2010 at 18:11:47

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Mr Bowers..the man is under contract so Im against letting him leave in January as he is an integral part of our first team and we do not have a replacement for him who is anywhere near as good... besides pienar we have other players who seem to want away eg; Heitinger and maybe Bily.

We cannot afford to let every player who is unsettled just leave!!!! I think that contracts should include loyalty payments and also severance money that would be forfeit if players angle after leaving before the contracts end.

Let's face it...every player that can command a decent transfer fee will try to improve his money at the club he plays for... the players who readily sign new contracts are normally the least valuable!!

Marc Williams
21   Posted 28/10/2010 at 18:26:13

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The current 'business model' of Everton dictates that the player must be sold.
I was surprised it wasn't done last summer as that would have made objective economic sense & would have fitted in with previous precedent.

It would surely suit Pienaar & his agent to run down his contract, thereby being able to effectivly get a tranfer fee sized signing on fee next summer. Don't forget he did this when he joined us.

At the moment Moyes is talking tough about letting the contract 'Run down' but surely this plays right into their ( player/agents ) hands as this will mean mega bucks for player & agent.
To hold on until the summer will be in direct contravention of the EFC business model under Kenright/Moyes, which whilst it hold's us back, does just about keep us afloat.

At some point the reality of the stuation/contract cycle has to kick in & he must be sold.
I guess the current dithering/fear is concern as to whether we could get a replacement in January & Kenright's fear of a fan's revolt if we sell & then can't or won't ( due to financial constraints ) get someone else in.
Jon Cox
22   Posted 28/10/2010 at 18:54:59

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Trev, answered you on another thread by the way (Dixie, Southport).

I think there is a guy in the Prem who has maybe two or three years left in terms of age. This guy has got more pace than Pienaar and is a better crosser of the ball.

Matty Etherington. If Pienaar goes in Jan then the club could do worse than to break the bank and go for Donovan on the right and Etherington on the left.

Eth. would fit in like a glove especially with Bainsey. I think it would be even better with regards to "the gel"

Also imagine having dead ball experts Like Arteta, Bains and Etherington. Jesus it doesn't bare thinging about.
Ian McDowell
23   Posted 28/10/2010 at 19:28:36

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I?m fully with Moyes on this one. Pienaar only cost £2 million and has served us very well.

As for any criticism of the player himself that?s ridiculous, he has not demanded a transfer and still plays fully committed and has been one of our best players this season. Pienaar has fulfilled his contract and is free to choose what he does next June. I hope he stays but should he go I would wish him the best of luck.
Nelaj Behajiha
24   Posted 28/10/2010 at 19:28:39

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I blame Moyes for this situation. We shouldn't've kept Arteta and should've got rid of Billy to one of the big Russian clubs. This would've created a revenue of around at least around £20 million or more. We could've sold the Yak to West Ham for £7 million. Basically we'd have around £28 million to spend.

The first signing I would've made is Martin Petrov on a free. Secoond signing: Van der Vaart £8 million. Third signing I would've made would've been Carlton Cole for around £10 million. This would still leave us with money to spend and we really wouldn't've lost any of our most vital players. We could then afford to shell out higher wages and we'd probably be higher up the table than we are now.

I hope we make some good signings in the transfer window but I'm not confident.

Andy Crooks
25   Posted 28/10/2010 at 20:10:48

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Larry, if Pienaar is one of the top players in the Premier League (in my view he isn't) why on earth would you see Chris Eagles as a replacement?
Mark Pierpoint
26   Posted 28/10/2010 at 20:27:31

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Nelaj... 23.... ridiculous

1) Sell Arteta? Madness. Papers quoted £12M. You couldn't replace his influence for that.

2) Bily. Maybe. I do like him but he doesn't fit the way we play. Surely though we would have to take a hit on a player who has struggled to make a consistent impact, similar to how we got Pienaar for £2M. We could have sold him for about £5M in my opinion.

3) They wouldn't pay more than £6M for Yak in July, falling to £5M. Do your research, it was big news!!

4) Carlton Cole? Bewildered why you think this would be clever...

5) Van der Vaart. Firstly he was going to Shalke 04 I think for about £12M until it fell through. We couldn't have waited until the last minute of deadline day in hope of a good deal. Secondly, why would he join us? He only went to Tottenham because of Champions League football.

I hate to sound miserable, but it really annoys me when people think that reality is something akin to Football Manager.
Dave Charles
27   Posted 28/10/2010 at 20:33:39

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I don't get worked up anymore when it comes to players. If they are there, I'll support them. If the leave, goodbye. I don't wish them well, as to me, they've gone now. We've payed them well for what they've done.

I love Everton FC. I don't feel the same about the players but the ones who wear the shirt on match days will always have my support. If the following day they decide they want out, goodbye and who's next.

Nearing 50, that's how I feel now.
David Price
28   Posted 28/10/2010 at 20:21:56

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Pienaar, we all acknowledge is a very good player. Turns into an excellent player with Baines.
On that analysis, give thanks for Baines staying loyal and content and bring in the replacement accordingly.
Good shout for Ethrington and Adams, even Bentley if Moyes sorts his attitude out..
If we bring Landon in with Osman on the left for now, then i don't see the team falling apart.
Agree with the O'Shea comments, i guess on stupid wages, the teams that dish those numbers out are City, Utd, Chelsea, Spurs and for now Liverpool. From them it covers around 80 players on mega bucks leaving us to compete with the best of the rest.
Cash for wages are like trophies, only so much to go round, not every player at those clubs get parity, which then affects team spirit and cliques within that destroys the work ethic.
Those sides can't go on forever with those salaries and City and Chelsea apart couldn't sustain it for long without Champions League involvement. A big risk with other clubs not too far off top four contention.
We are building the right way and are right not to give in to Pienaar's wage demands. On a par with Arteta, no chance.
Ian Campbell
29   Posted 28/10/2010 at 21:01:13

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Nelaj what a fantastic post!
Are you on day release? Sell Arteta for 12mil and sign Carlton Cole for 10mil.

With that mentality you should apply for a job at Pompey or as Peter Risdale's apprentice.
Ian Campbell
30   Posted 28/10/2010 at 21:06:00

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Ian #22 - a sensible post the only problem is if we are say 10k a week short of Pienaars demands (thats a big if I know) that equates to just over a mil every 2 years or 2.08mil over the course of 4years.

How much would the replacement players transfer fee cost? Even if we were 20k short of Pienaars demands thats only 4.16mil over 4 years. Shouldn't we just bite the bullet?

Its a difficult one but I really hoped that everton weren't a stepping stone for our players anymore.
John Daley
31   Posted 28/10/2010 at 21:13:26

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Nelaj,

Moyes can be criticised for a lot of things but neglecting to sign Carlton bloody Cole certainly isn't one of them! I'd rather he dressed a wheelie bin in a blue shirt and shoved that up front instead. It would be more mobile and better in the air than the ex-Chelski plodder anyway. Cappello would probably call it up to the England squad as well given the shortage of decent English forwards at the moment.
Frank McGregor
32   Posted 28/10/2010 at 21:34:35

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I don't believe we should react to all the paper talk about the list of clubs after Piennar's services as it is no doubt being bandied about by his agent. If the player is unhappy at the club, he should move on. There is no point in keeping him. He will probably join the long list of players leaving the club and then find the grass is not greener in pastures new.
Alan Clarke
33   Posted 28/10/2010 at 21:33:49

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What if in january, pienaar decides to sign for Liverpool or Man U? I know it's not legally binding with an English club but Beckford did it with us. Will we chant his name knowing he'll be playing for the enemy? Moyes should get rid in January. If Pienaar's not signed by then then there is no point in keeping him til the end of the season.
Derek Thomas
34   Posted 28/10/2010 at 21:40:55

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Tony J Williams#9 spot on.

John Daley Oh no, that will make TWO wheelie bins with Beckford
Christine Foster
35   Posted 28/10/2010 at 22:33:22

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From a business perspective perhaps we should take a leaf out of Man U book. Give him his 5 year contract and what he wants financially and sell him on in summer.

The club could only be accused of being as mercenary as the players..

Commercial reality? We need the money too.
James Flynn
36   Posted 28/10/2010 at 22:40:45

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Dave (26) - Spoken perfectly.
James Flynn
37   Posted 28/10/2010 at 22:43:19

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If he goes he goes. We got our money's worth.

Remember, this is a big risk for Steven; playing out his contract. He's one bad injury away from getting little or nothing (who's paying substantial money for a 29 year-old on the mend?)

On the other hand, he MUST play his ass off for the remainder of the season for potential suitors to be attracted.

Surprised at his agent. He knows the great risk being taken. Nonetheless, I do want him to stay, but if he goes, he goes. EFC will survive just fine.
Angelina Tan
38   Posted 28/10/2010 at 23:19:22

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In my humble opinion, not being a football expert, there is one very good that Pienaar hasn't signed.

This means he can not slacked off. He must play his hardest every time and show his mettle. A footballer is only as good as his last season. If his season is crap, who will sign him up???

His price value will drop. Ergo, it is in his best interest to play with every ounce of skills, talent and courage he has.

This is very good for Everton, isn't it?

Also, I believe Tim Cahill has already re-signed with Everton ages ago. What other players are getting (salary) is of no consequence to the Invisible Man.

Thirdly, Moyes should go to Australia and look at some of our A-League players. Some of them are truly awesome. You can get three quality players for the price of one in the EPL. If quality is what you want, scout down here.

What have you to lose????

Derek Thomas
39   Posted 29/10/2010 at 00:03:41

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Angelina, sorry no, take off your vegemite tinted spec. I went to the Brisbane game, It was their cup final and Everton won it without too much trouble. which is why so many people go on about our poor early season form being a function of the limited opposition we play pre season.

Robbie coke sniffer Fowler can still cut it in the
A league at 38 or 39.
Gary Hughes
40   Posted 29/10/2010 at 00:45:18

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Dave Charles 26. Couldn't put it any better, I've gone way past the point of hero worshipping individual players. If they don't want to stay then they can all fuck off. Pienaar is an exceptional player & I don't want him to go but if he goes he goes. He will be replaced & may come to realise that he's flourished here for a reason.
Steve Edwards
41   Posted 29/10/2010 at 11:43:39

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A friend of mine happened to be in the Radisson Hotel, Liverpool, last week. Steven Pienaar was there with a person he assumed was his agent. My friend was surprised to see the two of them talking quite openly about Steven's future. They were in ear shot of a number of people at the time. Tottenhan were mentioned several times. He couldn't quite hear fully what they were saying but the person assumed to be the agent at one point said, "When Tottenham come in..." or "If Tottenham come in..."

So there you have it. I thought that I would share that snippet of information to you for what it is worth. If he does go to Tottenham in January there may be something in it for us, maybe a swop or a small fee.

Larry Boner
42   Posted 29/10/2010 at 14:11:56

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Andy, Chris Eagles has got what we currently dont have at Everton, pace and an eye for goal.
He came through the Man Utd youth system, I think he made his debut against us and scored.
Plays joined up football and would go down a storm with Baines, also tried and tested in the PL and would not cost a large fee or wages, ticks all the boxes.
The other alternative would be NZogbia, who Birmingham were going to sign, but would not meet his £50000/wk demands, which is what we are offering Peinaar.
Charlie Adam, ideal squad player, great set piece taker and in dispute with Blackpool.
All the above would depend on Everton doing some wheeler dealing in January, so dont hold your breath, we have players we could sell, trade etc but.
Nelaj Behajiha
43   Posted 29/10/2010 at 17:18:19

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To all those who commented on my post, I was merely pointing out that selling players to fund other ones wouldn't work. At the end of the day, it's unlikely Pienaar will leave... and unlikely Everton will bring anyone in.
David Sheen
44   Posted 29/10/2010 at 18:48:49

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I don't want Pienaar to go because he is a great player. But I think Moyes knows his limits. Pienaar most of the time flatters to decieve. He's got plenty of style but no substance.

Arteta and Cahill are attacking players who can change a game. Pienaar has never shown that ability. We shouldn't break the bank to keep him.
Alan Clarke
45   Posted 29/10/2010 at 21:08:48

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If it becomes apparent in January that Pienaar has agreed terms with another English club, there is absolutely no way he can run out at Goodison Park again in an Everton shirt. Moyes will have to sell him even if it's for £1. The latest bullshit he's spouting in the Echo is because the natives are getting wrestless and he wants to keep them onside before he jumps ship.

If Pienaar wanted to sign for us he'd have done it by now. I really think we should get rid, keep the fans and rest of team happy. This situation will become disruptive if it rumbles on.
Rob Murphy
46   Posted 29/10/2010 at 22:01:14

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It's common knowledge round Europe that some of the biggest clubs are interested in Pienaar. I fully expect him to sign a pre-contract deal with a Champion's League regular early next year.
Tony J Williams
47   Posted 29/10/2010 at 22:12:29

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Quite possibly Rob, but let's not forget there are quite a few shitty regular teams in the Champions League and if he is lucky to get with a decent one, he will be a bench warmer/bit part player when he realises that he doesn't have Baines to back up his plays.
Dave Charles
48   Posted 29/10/2010 at 22:16:20

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Alan Clarke - 44.

It's difficult to disagree with that.

Sod them. I'm behind the 11 tomorrow, whoever they may be.
Martin Faulkner
49   Posted 30/10/2010 at 12:31:10

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He's off abroad, he's not British and has one good contract left in him; fair play, let him go. I'm ust disappointed we didn't get rid in the summer although maybe the expected bids just weren't there on the back of a pretty poor World Cup for him.

On the replacements mentioned, I think Bentley would be on too much wages; Wigan want too much for N'Zogbia; Eagles just signed a 5-year contract at Burnley and they would bleed us dry over the fee. Etherington is worth a closer look at on Saturday...

Martin Faulkner
50   Posted 30/10/2010 at 12:58:31

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Angelina, which A-League players are truly awesome? I have to admit I find it watching similar to watching Highland League football in Sccotland. Apart from a couple of average Brazilians, there doesn't seem to be that much talent on offer. Most of the decent Aussie players leave at a very young age for Europe and are signed up already.
Drew O'Neall
51   Posted 30/10/2010 at 17:17:10

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Of the players fit and available, Pienaar is our most creative, consistent and frankly best.

He's a better player than Arteta so far this season who I believe we have pandered to in offering such a massive contract considering his long lay off during which he received full pay and support from the club while he was in Spain.

I think Pienaar is worth as much as Arteta and in fairness to Pienaar, like Arteta, he hasn't linked himself with other clubs and has been completely respectful of the club and it's fans albeit his agent has been a bit of a tool.

If we need to sell/loan someone in order to keep Pienaar on the appropiate terms then I suggest we do so....

For example how much are we paying the Slovakian No.1 to sit on the bench every week?? Even if it's £15k it'd be better spent on an incremental increase for Pienaar to keep a player of his quality and an asset worth circa £10M IMHO.

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