This post is prompted by listening to some TalkSport caller (a Man City fan) talking about how the psychology of the club has changed in recent times ? clearly by the addition of vast sums of dosh.
I am 44 years old and EFC have won the league 3 times in my lifetime. I was always under the impression that ? long ago ? we were always the dominant club of the city. However, a quick flick through the league tables on the (excellent) EvertonResults.com website reveals some periods of dominance (notably winning the league before the outbreak of both world wars ? bloody Germans! ? before returns to mediocity in peace time) but long periods of mid-table mediocrity and sporadic, short-lived success.
While the motto of EFC might be aspirational, the psychology of Everton FC is not Nil Satis Nisi Optimum. Sadly, historically, we are a mid-table team... though I hate to say this.
Every now and then factors not linked to finance ? Bill Shankly, Howard Kendall, Alex Ferguson ? transform a club's fortunes. Will Everton ever get back to the top and build a long-standing era of success that Manchester United, Liverpool, Arsenal have done over the decades?
Is a change in psychology of the club ? i.e. long-term winning mentality ? only linked to finance nowadays? (By the way, Man City's mind shift is from lower to upper mediocrity at the moment, just to make that point.)
Mike Hughes, Posted 12/11/2010 at 16:45:53
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1 Posted 12/11/2010 at 17:36:11
2 Posted 12/11/2010 at 18:23:10
You could tell when interviewed that Walter Smith had that dour way about him and this I thought was transfered to the team. It hasn't always been, but I'm starting to see the same thing happening with the Moyes personality trait.
This, "we must not lose at all cost" and "don't try anything too spectacular"... We don't seem to see players (above average players) being allowed to express themselves like I see with teams like Spurs and even Newcastle at this point in time.
Things may change. I hope so.
3 Posted 12/11/2010 at 18:34:52
Teams like Man U and Arsenal market themselves and are run as a business; until Everton have people in control who can do that, we will never move on.
4 Posted 12/11/2010 at 19:57:14
5 Posted 12/11/2010 at 20:15:13
6 Posted 12/11/2010 at 20:09:35
I agree with some of your points.
However, up to 2002, there was only 2 clubs in the whole of English football who had a better average season position overall. Also, whilst you may have seen 3 league titles in 44 years there is still only 3 clubs who have ever won more than us.
7 Posted 12/11/2010 at 20:50:49
Therefore, all teams had brief periods of dominance and then years of not winning it. If you take Arsenal for example, they won the title in 1952-53 and didn?t win it again until 1970-71 when they won the title for a record seventh time, and three teams tied for joint second with six: the RS, Man U and EFC. So, even though we?ve fallen on hard times, our history is on a par with all the ?big? teams.
8 Posted 12/11/2010 at 21:05:56
The psychology of the club might be summed-up as the actions and vision of those who run the club measured by the very real expectations of the fans. At the start of every campaign In the 70s, I used to dream / expect EFC to be in with a realistic shout of the title. Are the expectations of the fans the same now?
As a club we're "happy" for top six. When / how did the mindset change? You mentioned Arsenal. They haven't won the league for around 5 years but I bet the psychology of the gooners is that they're in with a shout year after year.
By the way, this is not an anti-BK/DM rant. (We're all in this together!) To add an extra dimension to the discussion, perhaps finishing above the RS season after season would be a good starting point ? something we've only done 4 times in my 44 years on the planet (and that celebration went tits-up in Istanbul in 2005).
9 Posted 12/11/2010 at 21:33:48
I've been a fan a fraction of the years of you but, knowing what this team is capable of, with the fan support it has, is I think the real fire behind the club.
We have the ability to be better right now, we just keep coming up short. A few more wins instead of draws and it'd be better.
10 Posted 12/11/2010 at 21:43:13
11 Posted 12/11/2010 at 22:33:19
Breaking the top four has been as difficult as someone breaking the top two in Scotland with each time a poor Liverpool helping out.
12 Posted 12/11/2010 at 22:16:53
I think you've hit the very essence of what gnaws at many of us, we do have a great history but we've not had a dynasty like that of Liverpool and Man Utd with the self-belief that breeds.
The likes of Shankly and Busby just don't seem to be around anymore; I guess Clough was close and latterly Mourinho... Fergie .....I agree with Nick @ 4 although his Aberdeen tenure deserves respect.
Like yourself, I approached the season start in the 70s with optimism but in hindsight we were already disintegrating but buoyed by a recent history.
With the honourable exception of Kendall and Joe's FA Cup, we've declined steadily to this mid-table stupor.
The ray of hope is that both Liverpool and Man Utd were in worse situations than we are now.
13 Posted 13/11/2010 at 00:15:59
To say Ferguson bought the title is complete bollocks. What made the difference was buying Cantona for £1.2m (£12m today's money?) who delivered the title to Leeds the season before alongside a group of kids who would famously 'win nothing' according to the one who walks backwards. Ferguson may have had the fortune of being able to attract players and scout the best youth with the brand and though I don't think he holds a candle to Clough he has achieved quite a bit since 92 ? did he buy all of that too?
I think dynasties are built with the right man at the helm with the right backing at the right point in time. That's why Chelsea haven't built a dynasty: no longevity of manager. Liverpool passed it on via the 'boot room' and Arsenal have just been consistent ? as only Arsenal would be. bar the Chapman years in the 30s when they dominated.
For us to build a dynasty, we would need a new owner, a new manager, and be in the right place at the right time in a new era. Stranger shit has happened but then it's not happened more often too.
14 Posted 13/11/2010 at 01:34:19
15 Posted 13/11/2010 at 02:18:03
Less than a third of the season in, we're the only Club that hasn't been dominated in any particular game. Imagine a team as anaemic at scoring goals, as we are presently, not getting smoked at least once in 12 games?
We'll get going, scoring-wise, and validate our rightful Big Club attitude. This season, by the way, not in some dream future.
16 Posted 13/11/2010 at 02:34:42
17 Posted 13/11/2010 at 04:12:10
For reasons various and debatable, we don't do Dynasties, never have, but until the RS and United did, nobody else did either.
But the short memories and short years of those who think that Sky reset football to year zero, always get a shock when, the odd time in a 100, they find out just how good we were.
The EPL is not set up for change, we lost our seat in the musical chairs of year zero and have been playing catch-up ever since. And that catch-up is along the lines of running to stand still.
We ARE a big Club (stamps foot)... Aren't we ?
OK I will reluctantly settle, just for now mind, for Sleeping Giant.
Where is our Pearl Harbour to awaken said Giant and fill him with a terrible resolve.
Oh yeah... 24/7.
18 Posted 13/11/2010 at 06:02:54
Doesn't matter what we were in 1939; we've become a backstreet, parochial outfit and we'll stay that way unless/until the finances are resolved.
Simples. (Makes clicking noise.)
19 Posted 13/11/2010 at 08:16:18
MONEY has changed the impetus and until we can compete commercially with the top teams then we will struggle to actually win anything!!!
No-one bought a Chelsea shirt before Ambramovich invested in them and pre-Premier League we as a footballing nation were very naive about commercialisation... EFC are prehistoric in business methods and we cannot attract top players due to our lack of ambition as much as salary size.
We need to drop players when they are off form, but not to the bench... to the reserves! Put a couple of our reserves on the bench who have played well and see if they can have a real impact when brought on and not just 'do a job'....
I'm afraid I agree with Mike McLean, with the exception of bringing in a few youngsters if we have no money and putting some of our high paid under achievers in the reserves. It's no good going on a long unbeaten run if they are all draws... the way the points system give three points for a win, we could still be in the bottom end of the league if we draw every game until the end of the season.
20 Posted 13/11/2010 at 13:19:27
21 Posted 13/11/2010 at 17:29:05
Perhaps the better motto would be "Nothing but the best we can manage is good enough"!
We are definitely not a mid-table side historically - I cannot disagree with that point more.
22 Posted 13/11/2010 at 20:03:25
Similarly to the RS boot room the torch would have then passed onwards to Peter Reid and Graeme Sharp ? all of these people being winners who were well versed in the Everton Way. I think that would genuinely have led to something better that Liverpool or Manchester United ever achieved.
23 Posted 14/11/2010 at 01:22:58
24 Posted 14/11/2010 at 13:02:59
25 Posted 14/11/2010 at 13:24:48
You could say that Leeds under Risdale had that winning mentality, but look what happened there. I knew Peter Risdale before he took over at Leeds and he came across as a passionate fan who took a risk and fucked it up. I certainly dont want that to happen with us.
Bookies usually are spot on and the only way we could be considered seriously for a title would be the appointment of Mourino, but then the bookies say that wont happen. A sugar daddy wouldn't solve everything either ala Citeh. The best we can hope for is to sign Donovan from USA, Honda from Japan and some Asian kid as good as Maradonna.
26 Posted 14/11/2010 at 16:31:11
27 Posted 14/11/2010 at 17:33:55
Iain @ 25 ? I did not say our psyche was the cause. Read the post: I asked when our psyche had changed ? and it has.
28 Posted 15/11/2010 at 15:06:25
29 Posted 15/11/2010 at 16:06:28
By the way, I disagree with some of the posts on here which suggest we are on a par with Blackburn, Bolton etc. We are still a cut above those clubs and their ilk.
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