Is Johny Heitinga any good? I have heard many arguments how he isn?t a good player and he's nothing better than a thug running round on the pitch, to he's he is a good player but he is just tired and he needs time to gel into the team.
My view on it is that he is a very good player and we do see glimpses of it. We do see the few world class passes across the park. He is a very good battler, we've seen that last season; he will fight for the cause, but this season he is making us look like a team of thugs. His actions have been stupid and he's lost his cool a few times but last year he was up there for Player of the Season.
One of the reasons he might not be playing well is because he is not a defensive midfielder, he is a centre-half. He played there for Athletico Madrid and Ajax. Where did he play in the World Cup? At centre-half. Holland had a solid defence the whole tournament with Heitinga at the heart of it.
Moyes has made a habit of playing people out of position; sometimes it has paid off, like Pienaar was never a left winger but he has come good... even putting Lescott at left back. But there are players where it has gone wrong.
Bilyaletdinov is NOT a left winger and I am sick of people slating him off for not being able to come to a different club, a different style of play, a different speed of league. People will say he should be able to adapt because we spent so much on him. We spent the money on him, but did not give it to him, he did not value himself. Lokomotiv Moscow asked for the £10 million ? not him.
But back on topic: Heitinga is a good centre-half and a very average midfielder. In the summer, people were saying drop Distin and play Jagielka and Heitinga, but after the first few months of the season Distin has been a rock at the back, solid and dependable, he has bailed us out on a few occasions.
Last season, we had a solid back four, with Distin and Heitinga and Fellaini or Rodwell holding. That gave Baines and Neville the chance to move forward. Jagielka?s form hasn?t been the greatest this season and we haven?t been solid at the back this year and a change could do us good.
Jake Wilson, Posted 20/11/2010 at 11:28:50
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1 Posted 20/11/2010 at 17:21:45
I'm also coming round to the idea that he's a bit of a knob. I think he's unhappy at Everton, wants to leave, and that's showing in some of his stupidity on the pitch. I think he 'left Atletico Madrid' rather than 'joined us' if you know what I mean, and he's looking to go somewhere else where he'll play centre back in the Champions League (probably Germany).
In his defence, they do keep mentioning this niggling calf injury he's had, and he is genuinely being played out of position. I actually think Distin is the shaky one at the back, he can look imperious but he's the one who's got a rick in him at any given time, and I stick to what I said in the summer, that Jagielka and Heitinga should be our centre backs.
2 Posted 20/11/2010 at 17:27:47
3 Posted 20/11/2010 at 17:32:07
4 Posted 20/11/2010 at 17:45:22
5 Posted 20/11/2010 at 18:25:55
6 Posted 20/11/2010 at 19:23:36
I do think though that he is probably the person we should get rid off, not that he jis surplas to requirements, more beacuase his transfer value will allow us to strenghten other areas that need more. I would say his worth is probably £7 - £8m.
7 Posted 20/11/2010 at 19:04:38
He's obviously extremely open to the idea of a move (as he keeps flashing his tits at any club passing by), and Moyes seems to be hinting that something may happen, so I believe he may be gone in January. To my mind it will be no big loss.
However, I do find his desperate attempts to portray himself as some sort of hard man increasingly amusing? He may like to run about the pitch thinking he's Chuck Norris in Delta Force 2 but, in reality, he's more like fucking Norris from Coronation Street.
8 Posted 20/11/2010 at 19:52:25
9 Posted 20/11/2010 at 19:52:27
My fear, after seeing DM's comments today whre he said soemthing along the lines of "Ive not heard of any interest in him, but if Everton decide to cash in". The fact he uses the word Everton, instead of we, makes me thing JH may be getting flogged by the club to balance the books. If this is the case, I can see DM jumping ship. Where would this leave us? Im as bored with our dour football as the next man, but at least DM can work with the constraints that the club imposes with money and transfers etc. If he goes, and we have no kitty to offer an incoming manager, we will end up with some cunt like Phil fucking Brown or Gordon cunting Strachan.
Conspiracy theories, dontcha love em!
10 Posted 20/11/2010 at 19:57:42
However would also say that he has a very high sense of self importance and is typically Dutch.
As for the comments most of those are taken well out of context (thanks to Eric for the translations) and shouldn't be used against him.
For my money, would have him and Distin at centre half on Monday. Jags hasn't been upto for several games and major mistake last week and a mugging for England this aint going to do his confidence any good
11 Posted 20/11/2010 at 19:58:08
He is not as good as he thinks he is and obviously has a problem he can't oust Jags at the back (hence the trap).
Our team is too predictable at the moment and why we are suffering ? the team needs pace in a number of positions and so I would cash in.
12 Posted 20/11/2010 at 19:52:25
13 Posted 20/11/2010 at 21:10:22
14 Posted 20/11/2010 at 21:15:39
After the Fat Kid I've grown used to all players being mercenaries and them only wanting the next payday. I don't care what they say or think, so long as they play well for the blues
15 Posted 20/11/2010 at 21:33:30
16 Posted 20/11/2010 at 22:10:41
17 Posted 20/11/2010 at 22:16:48
18 Posted 20/11/2010 at 22:24:43
I get the impression he does'nt suffer fools gladly, which could be a problem at Everton.
19 Posted 20/11/2010 at 23:12:49
As a centre-half he's solid, and as a defensive midfielder he keeps his man quiet. He doesn't do anything spectacular.
He was absolutely superb last year for us at centre-half, which everyone forgets for some reason, and he's done well this year - he well and truly shut down Blackpool's dangerman Charlie Adam when he played in defensive midfield; indeed, we almost lost the game when he went off.
People are just annoyed that we have a Dutch international but he doesn't do the same job in a side as Cruyff did.
20 Posted 21/11/2010 at 00:06:03
Although I do think he's a good player, I've never been sure what position Moyes had in mind when he bought him. Moyes does prefer players who can play in a variety of positions. For me, there have been too many press reports linking him with other clubs and perhaps it is time he moved on.
21 Posted 21/11/2010 at 00:12:29
I think Sky and the PL have bred a new type of fan - those impressed ONLY by the glitter of an over-head kick or a bendy free kick.
Problem is with your unflash player, it often takes a few seasons to realise what a good job they're doing.
Cars was a good example, sat in front of the back four, won the ball, gave it to someone who can play. Job done.
Never going to get him analysed by 'Lawro' and not paricularly exciting to watch but absolutely essential and when he felt settled there. I actually felt more relaxed at games.
In fact in the 'Cars derby', during the last half hour (when normally I'd be sweating cobbs) I was the most relaxed I EVER was in a derby.
I just thought they're absolutely not getting past him today.
22 Posted 21/11/2010 at 00:37:23
23 Posted 21/11/2010 at 04:53:34
Is Johnny fantastic? ? No.
Is Johnny one of our two best centre-backs? ? Possibly our second best.
Is Johnny one of our best defensive midfielders? ? Hardly, but he can put a shift in the odd game (he was decent against Blackpool).
Is he worth having at Everton? ? Clearly... but as one of the club's top earners, maybe not. As a disgruntled sub, definetely not.
Has he received unfair stick? ? Yes.
Is he a mindless thug? ? Well, he's a thug no doubt. But, then so is Tim Cahill. And he is OUR thug.
24 Posted 21/11/2010 at 08:48:39
25 Posted 21/11/2010 at 10:56:36
I did the same thing a few years back as a kid with Mark Pembridge. True, he really wasn't that good, but he played an important role in the side that went thoroughly unnoticed. The fans got on his back when he refused to shoot from 20 yards, without realising he's not supposed to shoot from 20 yards!
Let's put it this way, I'd rather have a Jonny Heitinga in a midfield five than five Mikel Arteta-style players. It's called "recycling possession" and Heitinga is actually very good at it.
A challenge for the young ones - next time you watch a game of football, keep an eye on what the defensive midfielder does during the game instead of waiting for a Pienaar stepover to jizz over ;)
26 Posted 21/11/2010 at 10:51:16
Hetinga's omission has to be yet another example of something that has nothing to do with footballing ability but more to do with Politics. Distin has played really well in the past few games, the same cannot be said about Jagielka. It's symptomatic of the state of the England side that Jags can get a start because his form certainly does not warrant it. If he tries another of those "Beckham" like 60-yard passes that rarely if ever reach their target (unlike Beckham) I will smash the TV to bits.
I think that ANY player that is good enough to play for a top world side but cannot force his way into an average Everton side would be frustrated and want to move on, I would be the same myself. I for one would be sad to lose a player of Hetinga's quality
27 Posted 21/11/2010 at 11:11:42
I am not blaming Moyes for playing him in midfield because he must have thought he would do a good job there, and Davey has a habit of playing players out of their comfort zone, a good example was the Jagielka situation, even Phil has commented on it, played in those positions for Sheff Utd as well.
If it's true that John wants away, then hopefully try and bring a player in exchange for him, as we cannot buy.
28 Posted 21/11/2010 at 11:47:26
Trouble is, Distin wears his heart on his sleave and Moyes likes that. He's big and willing to put in solid crunching tackles where Heitinga may not. Heitinga however has what I call a certain "Ferdinand" attribute. Rio Ferdinand has/had the ability to be in the right position so he often didn't HAVE to make gung ho challenges or even HAVE to make a tackle. He was there to cut the ball out before the other player got there. That's an attribute Heitinga has.
Distin is left footed. This is seen by Moyes and many other managers as being a big plus. Whilst it may help, I don't think it's critical.
Personally, I'd prefer to see Jagielka and Heitinga have a good stint together and see how they get on.
Potentially the biggest positive for the Distin & Jagielka partnership is that the current defensive unit is operating exceptionally well and there is often no reason to tinker with something that is not broken, even if it does mean something better.
29 Posted 21/11/2010 at 12:39:03
I dont know what you mean by young ones but I can assure that most young lad's at the match(I'm26) have played football all our lives. I personally and I can say this of my mates, understand fully what each players role in the team involves and can appreciate when a player carries it out fully, as per Eugene's Carsley analogy.
Most genuine football people know what to look for in each postion and I would say this more so of Everton fans as we dont seem to have attracted many SKY fans who havent got much of a clue.
30 Posted 21/11/2010 at 13:10:41
He is shite. End of story.
Johnny Who? Doesn't deserve to play for a cub like ours and the fact he lauded as some kind of hero in some quarters really gets my goat.
31 Posted 21/11/2010 at 14:02:55
I've never wanted him in midfield - as having that type of one dimensional player ultimately detracts from the type of game the team plays....It is possible to have players who do the Carsley job, yet actually have a bit more to their game..
I also think he's a thug - therefore like Pienaar, I wouldn't cry if he actually got on his boke with a flag - but it'll certainly not be to Barcelona.
32 Posted 21/11/2010 at 14:46:37
He is without doubt a centre back, that is his best position, but he is not going to get in there carrying on like he does, constantly stating the fact he would move in the morning to the right club in all these off-field interviews.
He's a bit of a bottler also, and i for one won't forget his pathetic attempt to win the ball against Wolves early on this season. He lost us 2 points that day and he alone.
I wonder what he will do if has a 50/50 with his brother-in-law on Monday night, that ex-Red Zendon... Are you up for it, Johnny? ? That's if you're picked, of course!
33 Posted 21/11/2010 at 17:44:33
I appreciate on posts like this (ie: opinion) my view is not 'right', it's just my view, based on what I see and hear from younger Evertonians. It's actually an area where I'd be delighted for loads of (young) blues to say 'you're dead fucking wrong and here's why'. (It'd actually give me a bit of hope.)
By the way, if you read the piece, it wasn't a dig at Evertonians. I might have had a dig at Sky fans but believe me, they DO exist and they do (imo) know fuck all about what makes a successful team.
34 Posted 21/11/2010 at 20:19:52
If you see a defender making spectacular blocks or tackles, he's probably not as good as the one who seems to just trot around and never needs to do anything. That's because the second guy is making it look easy by preventing danger at an earlier stage.
I also certainly don't think what-footed a centre-back is matters in the slightest, just looking at any of the successful combinations at any level over any period in history tells you that.
I also agree with Ciaran that we should hope to be beyond the Carsley-type player, and in Fellaini, when fit, not suspended, and played in the right position, we have a player for the same role/position but several levels of quality above. Heitinga doesn't match up to that (although Rodwell might).
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