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Better the Moyes you know...?

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Having just watched Aston Villa led (???) by Houlier, is it a case of ?Better the Moyes you know?.??

Under O?Neill, Villa were definitely a team that could have challenged for the magical 5th place but look at them now? completely out-played and out-muscled by a Blackburn team (who even had a 6?4? giant on the bench) on Saturday.

I looked at the players Houlier had found somewhere ? household names such as Clark, Bannan and Hogg, with the likes of a 38-year-old coming off the bench ? where were the likes of Heskey, Carew, Reo-Coker and Albrighton?injured or dropped?

Now I know there were many reasons for O?Neill to go? but unfortunately there is not that much talent out there right now to choose from?

If not Moyes ? then who??? Dave Cooper
Dave  Cooper, Mississauga, Canada     Posted 21/11/2010 at 22:41:02

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Russell Buckley
1   Posted 22/11/2010 at 04:29:33

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Moyes isn't going anywhere. Everybody would love us to be an attacking side and that is part of Moyes's job. But at the end of the day, at a club like Everton, and given our recent history, he is paid to get results, no matter how we look.

We are not Real Madrid... we are not in a place to sack a manager because the football isn't pretty.

Moyes is paid to get points and he goes about that in a safety-first manner 75% of the time. But, once or twice, I would love to see a line-up and formation that says, "We are Everton... we are better than you, and we are going to put 3 in the onion bag today or go down swinging".
Tony Cheek
2   Posted 22/11/2010 at 05:26:51

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Sorry Dave, but think you are wrong there. Yes, Villa were rank against Blackburn, but had quite a few key players out injured. But the football they have played since Houlier started has been much better than the boring dross they served up under O`Neill.

I mean, we were brilliant against Blackburn, were we not.? You cannot mean this is a reason not to sack Moyes.

Anthony Hughes
3   Posted 22/11/2010 at 07:35:39

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We're sitting 16th in the table (with our best squad in years) with a third of the season gone but does anyone really think Moyes would be going anywhere? He won't quit this job because he knows he's unsackable under the Kenwright regime.
Richard Dodd
4   Posted 22/11/2010 at 08:12:06

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Anthony Hughes says `Moyes is going nowhere` ? and neither should he ? but one thing is certain and that`s if he and Blue Bill don`t magic a genuine goalscorer in the New Year window, we shall all be going to watch Championship football next season! I have every faith that as always the happy couple will not let us down.
Anthony Hughes
5   Posted 22/11/2010 at 08:23:55

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Unless Kenwright asks Santa for a so-called 20-goal-a-season striker, then where's the money coming from in January to get such a player?
Derek Thomas
6   Posted 22/11/2010 at 08:10:22

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So we can't replace Moyes coz Houllier is crap?

Have you not noticed... we aren't even in the remedial class of the School of Science this term?
Paul Olsen
7   Posted 22/11/2010 at 09:05:57

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To be fair to Moyes he is trying to do what ToffeeWeb moaners have been crying about forever. When we were successful resultwise, people were moaning about Route One and hoofball. Now, he is trying to get the side to move onto passing, fluid football, best represented by the game against City last season but also against top opposition like Man Utd and Arsenal have we played some marvellous stuff.

Transforming a workmanlike squad into crowd pleasers doesn't happen overnight. Remember we still have the same core of player that ground out 1-0 wins a couple of seasons ago.

It's a somewhat painful experience watching this slow evolution, we only nail it when on form and with key-players performing. Movement off the ball and pace is still missing from the equation.

But yeah, Moyes is gradually trying to do what most ToffeeWebber's want. It will be painful, but maybe it will take us further in the end?
Thomas James
8   Posted 22/11/2010 at 09:58:35

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Dave - hang on a minute. Villa have a huge number of injuries, so they had to play youth players... in fact, they played youth players in correct positions rather than experienced players out of position. That surely has to be commended right??

Also, Villa are playing good football, this is only a blip and Blackburn is not an easy place to go, look at our first game of the season.
Larry Boner
9   Posted 22/11/2010 at 10:43:39

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Villa absolutely hammered Man Utd last week, a fair result would have been 5-0. They had an all-British outfield with young, fast, aggressive players, unafraid to play expansive, attacking football, unlike the long ball shite O'Neill had Villa playing.

I thought the aquiring of Pires was a great move, helping the younger players, coming on for the occasional cameo. I particularly like Albrighton: fast, direct, crosses a great ball and gets on the end of things; Young now playing behind the forward (less diving would be an improvement); the target man, Carew, now consigned to the past as the long ball not utilised.

Villa a very similar club to us, sleeping giants, but making moves on and off the pitch, both player and ground wise; 43,000 capacity, NO obstructed views.

Mike Allison
10   Posted 22/11/2010 at 12:52:56

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Far too many people write articles based on one result.
Mike Allison
11   Posted 22/11/2010 at 12:54:05

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Pressed send a little early there...

Houllier is doing okay at Villa, just as O'Neill was doing okay. I haven't watched much of them, but I don't think what's happening there has any relevance to us.

I'm a Moyes backer, despite his faults, and don't want rid of him, and it's true the lack of a better alternative has been an important point in these debates over the years; however, having a Dad who's a Burnley fan, and watching Bolton's form this season, there is a clear candidate who I think lots of clubs will be looking at in Owen Coyle.
Anthony Hawkins
12   Posted 22/11/2010 at 14:13:11

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A win today puts us back in the top half. The table is that close from 4th down that a run of two or three wins and we'll be right up there.
Anthony Hughes
13   Posted 22/11/2010 at 14:20:50

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Two or three wins will put us right back up there that much is true. The problem is it's taken 13 games to amass our three wins this season. Besides home and away to West Ham the next 10 games all look decidely tricky.
Norman Merrill
14   Posted 22/11/2010 at 14:34:31

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Blimey, I am NO Houllier fan, But let him get his coat off before you start to find fault. As previous comments state, he some players injured and suspended.
Andy Crooks
15   Posted 22/11/2010 at 15:07:06

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Can no one see that there just might be life after Moyes? He might just not be the best available. Maybe, somewhere out there, for £3.5 million a year, we might find someone better.
Dave Lynch
16   Posted 22/11/2010 at 15:43:30

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Villa are crap... so that makes everything ok, does it?
Terry Downes
17   Posted 22/11/2010 at 16:43:27

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Here's two for the pot:

1) Owen Coyle, if we can pinch him off Bolton now they're doing well;

2) Mark Hughes, I'm sure he'd walk to Everton just to get back into the northwest. I don't think his heart is in it down there... plus he's got something to prove after the Man City affair.
Lee Courtliff
18   Posted 22/11/2010 at 16:39:44

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I thought Villa were a bit unfortunate yesterday .But, in all fairness, fuck 'em. I'll never forget that diving, cheating little cunt Young scoring against us in the 4th minute of added time. I never liked them since that season. Strange really because almost every team has scored a late winner against us at some point. I don't hate every team.
Robert Daniels
19   Posted 22/11/2010 at 19:20:12

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Well its a few hours before kick off against the mighty Black Cats... and I'm shitting myself. I don't hold out much hope for us tonight; at best a draw.

I've had enough... he's got to go! It's nine years and counting, and this team he's put together, you know, the one he's been building for nine years, are fuckin useless.

This was the year, they said: Moyes, Arteta, Nev, Tim, something special, they told us. Well, they're talking shite. in nine fucking years this so-called manager has built a team with no pace, none whatsoever!

They're so fucking slow to break with the ball, that teams don't worry about us in them circumstances. Blackpool and Newcastle look more exciting than we do, even Bolton and Blackburn, look more of a threat than us.

Let's get the money talk out of the way: Everton have spent over £100M gross under Moyes; Villa have spent something similar. How much money have Newcastle and Blackpool, Stoke, Bolton, Blackburn, etc spent in the last ten years?

People who believe Moyes is doing a great job under the financial circumstances, are deluding themselves. Moyes the manager cant take us to the next level, his teams have no PACE, he isn't tacticaly astute, he can shore up a leaky defence but that's about it.

His unhealthy relationship with the Chaiman, job for life etc , is detrimental to Everton. His loyalty to certain players is a disgrace, if it wasn't for the fans on this site and others like it, Coleman wouldn't be playing wide right.

Where's are 'secret weapon' (Gueye)? He's that fucking secret Moyes has forgotten him. Just like he's forgotten to tell the likes of Butch Arteta Wilkins to fucking run into the box with the ball, run at players... Attack, attack, fucking attack...

He hasn't got it in him. Sack the unsackable, now ? get someone in with a bit of guile. Take a chance on Martinez, fuck me even Holloway's Blackpool play more entertaining football than we do, and they have fucking pace and fucking attack.

IMWT, Well not me. IMWT My fuckin arse!!!!!!

Joe McMahon
20   Posted 22/11/2010 at 19:33:40

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Just seen tonight's Everton team line-up, FFS none of us could have predicted that. The same team that failed in the last match starts again. Don't think Moyes has outwitted Bruce somehow!
Anthony Hawkins
21   Posted 22/11/2010 at 23:27:55

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I think Moyes is slowly, about the speed of a TUG, coming round to an alternative approach to 4-5-1. However, the 4-4-2 he's coming up with has GOT to be more interchangeable.

4-5-1 Starting line up has got to be:

Coleman Jagielka, Heitinga, Baines
Fellaini or Rodwell
Gueye, Arteta, Pienaar

For 4-4-2, a decision and a sacrifice has to be made, whether we like it or not:

Coleman Jagielka, Heitinga, Baines
Fellaini or Rodwell, Arteta
Gueye, Pienaar
Beckford, Yakubu

James Flynn
22   Posted 23/11/2010 at 02:10:24

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Aston Villa - Lerner

Not happening
Lee Courtliff
23   Posted 23/11/2010 at 03:13:37

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Anthony Hawkiins ? Why are you so eager for Gueye to play when he has not proved anything? I saw him in pre-season and thought he looked promising but nothing more. Certainly not a definite starter. Let's give him 20 mins here or there and then see...

He might be great; he might be out of his depth. Let's just see before we put him from the start. Personally, I can't wait to see him play but I think he has to prove something before he becomes a definite starter. A few sub appearances first.

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