Cards on the table: I back Moyes, I think he has done a great job for us and sometimes a lot of fans forget how lucky we are to have him, in my opinion. I also love Arteta and he would be one of the first players on the team sheet every week for me. Finally I don?t mind Johnny H... thought he was superb last season, but think Moyes is playing him out of position.
But, fuck me, tonight was a shocker. What is going on with Arteta? Is he injured, out of form, or is there something behind the way he is playing? He was terrible; yes, he scored, but apart from that what else did he do? He looks like he is running on quicksand, he is a yard behind everyone else and just sticks a leg out in a last-ditch attempt to track back as a player flies past him... and his passing was awful.
Heitinga was also terrible, mis-passing, strolling around the pitch, clapping his hands to gee other players up when he is the one that needed to pull his finger out of his arse. The way the Sunderland players passed him time after time and he jogged behind them, then just stopped ? how much are we paying for that effort? It was like we had no-one in the middle ? how often did the excellent Piennar drift into the middle trying to help?
Finally... Moyes ? we are on top of them and pushing for a winner and he changed nothing. It?s not until we are losing with ten mins left that he brings on Yak and Beckford ? why? What is he waiting for? The Yak scores a few weeks back and hasn?t started since ? why?
Arteta is way out of form and he leaves him on and takes of Coleman ? why? Why start with him? Heitinga does nothing, he stays on for 80-odd minutes ? why? Saha is slow, doesn?t look like the player of last season, yet he continues to start with him ? why?
For me tonight our best players were Baines, who was superb, especially in the first half; Cahill, who again lead the line (far better than Saha) and looked only one of a couple of players who gave a shit; and Pienaar who I felt battled, chased and tried everything to drag us into the game. My only complaint would be why he doesn?t shoot more often ? gets in a good position and goes all ?Arsenal? with too much ?tippy tappy? football.
I really feel Sunderland were there for the taking tonight and we blew it ? why will Moyes not go for it for a change??? I know this has been said a thousand times, but tonight, watching it on the TV, I was so frustrated.
Finally I guarantee Beckford will get a load of stick for that last-minute ?miss?, but for me I think he was unlucky and what really annoys me is that the 6 or 7 others who played average tonight will ?get away? with it, especially Arteta, because he scored.
Marc Davis, Posted 22/11/2010 at 22:21:13
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1 Posted 22/11/2010 at 23:14:49
2 Posted 22/11/2010 at 23:09:14
I do think we went for it tonight but, with Arteta struggling and Heitinga out of position, it's difficult to dominate games. Why not give Rodwell a go in the centre? Why play him down the right? Coleman was causing bother.
3 Posted 22/11/2010 at 23:22:29
Oh for Darren Bent and Donovan.
4 Posted 22/11/2010 at 23:21:44
5 Posted 22/11/2010 at 23:28:37
6 Posted 22/11/2010 at 23:32:23
I would "rest" Arteta and Heitinga and play Felli and Rodders from the off in CM.
I would also start with Tiny and Yak up front and bring Beckford on in the second half dropping Tiny to MF and give Rodders a rest.
I posted about Arteta recently and was castigated for it but for me he has been a shadow of himself since his return from injury, marriage and the shock of getting 75 grand a week.
7 Posted 22/11/2010 at 23:35:00
We are desperate for some pace in the squad and playing at least one game with an attacking formation ? no chance whatsoever of it happening though.
8 Posted 22/11/2010 at 23:50:12
9 Posted 22/11/2010 at 23:37:26
I think DM is going into each match thinking, "This is the one where we turn the corner..." but 3 wins in 14 matches suggests otherwise. Maybe we've been found out. Maybe playing players in their right positions would help...
Like everybody else, I had high hopes for this season but it's turning into a disaster & I'm now reaching the point where I no longer care. I don't know how to fix it but someone earning around £5M a year should be able to at least try something different instead of just plodding on & hoping for the best.
10 Posted 23/11/2010 at 00:01:15
At least Sunderland had the balls to go with two up front from the start!! Can anyone remember the last time we started with a formation other than the 4-5-1 at home or away?
11 Posted 22/11/2010 at 23:59:49
His job right now is to come on late, with pace, and present a fresh challenge to a tiring defence. He did that but it's no use if you can't put them away when they're wrapped up with ribbon.
At least he did better than Yakubu who had no impact whatever. It seems we are over-elaborating in front of goal, partly because, Cahill apart, we lack kind of the no-nonsense goalscorers that Yakubu and Beckford are supposed to be. We should have stuffed five down their throats and a true striker would have had a field day.
The important thing is what to do about it. I'm for cashing in Yakubu, which is clearly what he wants, play Beckford and Saha as a partnership and see if they can develop an understanding.
12 Posted 23/11/2010 at 00:04:17
13 Posted 23/11/2010 at 00:06:11
14 Posted 23/11/2010 at 00:03:36
Arteta had a poor game, but he can always draw on that little bit of class when it matters. His quick feet and quick brain are still light years ahead of the majority of his teammates. Apart from that, he seems to mostly want to wrap himself in cotton wool for the game.
And if Neville could sacrifice 10% of his leadership qualities and replace it with the ability to hit a ball without uselessly dinking a wet limp paceless cross into the box... we'd have a hell of a right-back!
Anyway, overall a very entertaining game, and at the end of the day, an away point against a team in the top half of the table. No complaints from me. COYB!!
15 Posted 23/11/2010 at 00:18:55
Worryingly, there were situations tonight when players at times seemed reluctant to pass to him, even when he was in good receiving positions. Something seems drastically wrong with him at the moment.
Tonight also seemed to be one of those games which suggests the manager is alarmingly bereft of ideas to radically alter the course of a game. Firstly ? how can you justify actually selecting a player who seems to have no commitment to the club/team (Heitinga) and watch him for so long be so detached from the play as to be truly useless in all aspects?
Why on earth, with the continued absence of Fellaini, was Hibbert not chosen to play at full-back and thus move Neville short term into the defensive midfield role rather than play this thug masquerading as a footballer? Even with his limitations, I am sure Neville would have been far more of a secure presence for Arteta during his current crisis?
Can anyone continue to believe that the admittedly (still???) talented Saha is anything but a charlatan and should be shown the door at the earliest opportunity?
Baines yet again showed what an asset it is to have a balanced left-sided player able to deliver from the left. Mr Moyes bemoans the lack of goals from his strikers ? perhaps playing them a little more frequently for rather longer periods of time might help!
What's more, how in the name of heaven, can players such as Pienaar, with so many other skills, much experience, and God knows how many hours on training pitches in various countries, be SO woeful a threat in front of goal?
16 Posted 23/11/2010 at 00:33:11
"Moyes told Sky Sports HD1: "I think we've got a really good team, we're a good footballing team (although) we're certainly lacking at the top end and not (getting) enough goals at this moment in time.
"I thought we had the ball a lot in and around the edge of the box," he added.
"We got some crosses in, we got into some good positions, but we didn't make them pay again tonight. In the end it cost us."
? David Moyes.
He's actually right. Good football, working the ball right up to the box, but not sticking the ball away.
Got to agree with the Arteta criticism tonight, he was diabolical.
17 Posted 23/11/2010 at 01:32:49
In the meantime, Howard can practise catching high balls instead of those weak effeminate punches of his.
Something the commentators said last night that echoed some of the postings on here recently was "When will David Moyes realise that 4-5-1 isn't effective anymore?"
18 Posted 23/11/2010 at 02:05:49
We do everything right except putting it into the net. Jesus!
Interesting for a team that can't score. We're the only team so far who hasn't been blown out. Every single game was there for us to win.
I have to believe we'll get going.
19 Posted 23/11/2010 at 02:49:20
I remember we played 4-6-0 in the recent past!!!
20 Posted 23/11/2010 at 03:10:49
Our problem is greater than a lack of goal scorers.
Our team is playing decent football (far from the best I've seen us play), knocking it around in our best Arsenal imitation, but it's not effective. It's one thing to be able to keep possession and find a teammate's feet but we often look like a ship without a rudder when we do this.
There is no menace to our midfield. No pace and a lack of direct play. Passing it out to the wings and then back in only works if you're hitting holes.
We are crying out for speed and many players currently look like they are in 2nd gear (Arteta... love him but what is going on there?).
Cahill and Baines as usual gave it everything and played well. Still can't understand the removal of Coleman. One of the only players in our squad who tries to go past his man and makes runs into the box.
21 Posted 23/11/2010 at 04:52:18
Moyes really does need to improve and for god's sake be braver. Nothing ventured, nothing gained! Goals win matches and the way we go about setting our formation up to get them is getting pathetic.
22 Posted 23/11/2010 at 05:28:09
Arteta needs resting, as does Heitinga... they are not contributing!!!
23 Posted 23/11/2010 at 07:52:06
I thought Baines was excellent, some of his crosses were superb but aside from Cahill there was nobody else attacking the box. Saha was just a total waste of space. Fuck knows what's up with Arteta, maybe it's the weight of his wallet slowing him up.
Also got to agree with posters complaining about Moyes being reactive instead of proactive. It is incredibly frustrating when the changes are eventually made that we carry much more threat and given more time on the pitch the substitutions could have won the game for us.
As for the Beckford miss, that is the level of finishing of a lower league striker. Unfortunately, that's the difference at the moment ? we can't afford anyone better and until we can we're going to struggle for goals.
24 Posted 23/11/2010 at 08:14:06
For the past month or so, we have not had the courage to attack teams and have let chances to take 3 points go. Spurs were there for the taking. The major problem is Moyes continued lack of decision making, poor team selection, poor tactics, poor substitutions.
Most importantly, you cannot compete against other Premier League teams with 10 men. We seem constantly to include at least one out-of-form player in our starting 11 and normally at least one out-of-position player.
Can anyone explain Saha starting the last few games, especially after Yakubu's first goal ? since when he hasn't started? Saha was absolutely abysmal last night. Constantly out of place, off the ball. He constantly appears to go for the same ball as Cahill. No idea about "lay-off". Show him the Kevin Davies, Elmander link-up play and explain how you play off another player.
But this is Moyes's fault. He picks the team and decides the tactics, if indeed we have any tactics. I am a season ticket holder and have been watching Everton since 1959 and I have to say that I am constantly bored watching Moyes's football.
And finally, have we been told not to shoot outside the box???
25 Posted 23/11/2010 at 08:16:34
We were unlucky. Their goal was offside and bar the 15 minutes after we scored the 1st goal which was very early in the game, we were the better team and dominated play AWAY from home. We had 8 attempts on goal which included 2 cleared off the line. We also had an absolutely shocking miss by Beckford who should have won the game. Sunderland, who are 6th in the table, had only conceded 1 goal at home all season and had come off an amazing away win at Chelsea.
People are saying 3 wins in 14 matches is not good enough. What about 1 defeat in 9, is that good enough?
Our problem all season has been in our forwards not scoring goals and we have drawn too many that we should have easily won. We should have bought an experienced, fit centre-forward with pace who is a goalscorer. That costs money and for that not happening I blame Kenwright. Look at Sunderland: they have 3 quick, young goalscorers in Bent, Gyan and Welbeck. We'd be a different team with just one of them in our squad.
I don't know how anyone can crticise our performance last night or call Moyes neagtive. We were the better side and went for it.
26 Posted 23/11/2010 at 08:26:47
27 Posted 23/11/2010 at 08:41:51
For me, Yakubu should have started in place of Saha as Saha is obviously very low in confidence at the minute... plus Rodwell should have started in place of Heitinga. Heitinga is far too slow for central midfield and his performance last night was abysmal.
Taking off Coleman was another mistake. I do feel that David Moyes has done a good job overall and has assembled a very good bunch of players but it is so frustrating to see him make such grave errors in his team selections. Let's hope he stops being so conservative.
West Brom at home next weekend would be the perfect opportunity to be more adventurous and perhaps go with Yakubu and Beckford up front with Cahill dropping back into midfield alongside Rodwell. I believe that we have the makings of a really great team here.
28 Posted 23/11/2010 at 09:24:17
29 Posted 23/11/2010 at 09:36:37
If the answer is yes to the above, then how the fuck can you blame Moyes?
Don't blame the manager because we cannot win a game, try shifting the blame to those overpaid bunch of lazy twats on the pitch.
30 Posted 23/11/2010 at 09:16:48
If you are going to recommend sticking the Yak or Beckford to partner Saha this would mean we will be playing 4-3-3. Did you watch the Stoke game? We played 4-3-3 for most of the 2nd half and how we did not conceed was beyond me, the midfield 3 of Pineaar, Arteta and Heitinga could not cope. Sticking on a 2nd striker AND playing Cahill will not happen, it is one of Moyes's commandments that Cahill plays, and as we have seen this season, other EPL teams hate playing against the guy.
So let's get real, Moyes is probably feeling vunerable when he has Saha and Cahill up front; asking Moyes to play with an additional striker would mean (1) we are losing or (2) Moyes is no longer in charge.
31 Posted 23/11/2010 at 09:43:39
Moyes persists with 4-5-1 even though for a long time it has shown not to be working, we have been having the same results due to it. Why does he persist with it? Does he expect a different outcome? Try it enough times and things may work?
At the end of the day, he is not delivering and the buck must stop with him. He is persisting with the same tried and tested (failed) method. It simply isn't good enough.
Paul (27) ? exactly right, what type of mentality does Moyes have? It's making him look like a right tit now.
32 Posted 23/11/2010 at 10:03:51
33 Posted 23/11/2010 at 10:34:12
That means that when we come up against a genuine five-man midfield (whether 4-5-1 or 4-2-3-1), we?re outnumbered in the middle of the park. The extra man enables the opposition to close us down rapidly, limit the time that players like Arteta have on the ball, and drastically cut down their passing options ? and, when in possession, they have a spare player to orchestrate attacks whilst our undermanned midfield chases shadows.
As far as I?m concerned, 4-5-1 (or, indeed 4-2-3-1) is the way to go, but it needs to be done properly.
34 Posted 23/11/2010 at 10:22:38
We play some lovely intricate passing but no end product. Baines delivers a quality final ball time after time but who else does? Certainly not Pienaar. He is as weak as piss and for all the one-twos with Baines does anyone really expect him to threaten the goal?
Arteta was poor and has been for awhile but we have to stick with him I feel as we're not blessed with too many creative players. Is he carrying an injury? Possibly. I know he took no corners last nite and even left a free kick to Jags!!!
Keep the faith and if we all ask Santa for a striker maybe at least one of us will get one!!!!
35 Posted 23/11/2010 at 10:31:02
Cahill is really doing his bit for us, but really we need a competent man up top who can tuck away goals for the fun of. Do we have such a man? Clearly not.
Beckford is still learning in the Premier League and, while I personally don't think he is good enough, I still think we should give him at least another 7 or 8 matches to fully bed in. If by then he still isn't firing on all cylinders, then we'll be in a better position to know for definite one way or another if he is good enough and how much Moyes will put up with the lad.
I don't see how anyone could blame him for hoofing it last night... shit happens to the best strikers in the world at times.
We need to remember that next year will be Moyes's last, I strongly believe that. I mean I don't think he can do much more with what we currently have. He clearly needs more funds... and the sad undeniable truth is, we ain't got any unless we sell... Arteta next summer? Don't put it past that fat bastard to get Moyes on to a new contract.
36 Posted 23/11/2010 at 10:46:02
Moyes ramped up the praise for Pienaar this season... despite him doing fuck all imo.
I don't like the way Arteta is playing this season, definitely something up with the lad, he is usually good spirited and having fun when he has the ball... not the sour shit I've seen this season, from arguably our best player at the club.
37 Posted 23/11/2010 at 10:45:53
Extreme? Yes, especially from me but I'm afraid it's true. This season has shown us all that we could be up the top of this league. We can out-pass teams and out-shoot teams and I think we are a match for anyone in this league but we are lacking the potent threat that's needed to kill off teams and turn our 6 draws at least an extra 10 points (exception being United).
Has Moyes hit the ceiling? Can he go no further? I think he may well do unless he changes his attitude to attacking, starting with WBA.
On another note, I thought Baines, Jags and Cahill were immense last night ? hopefully the rest of the team will catch up.
38 Posted 23/11/2010 at 10:55:12
Moyes will always get criticised for making a wrong call, because well, he makes the wrong call so often. You say you wouldn't have changed it. But, be honest, didn't you know what was going to happen? Most everyone else on here did, and were right.
The strikers aren't scoring because the team isn't set up to help them. It's set up to cater for Cahill and thankfully he's doing his bit. I just pity the other striker, whoever it is, who is looking to feed off scraps from him and misplaced / overhit / underhit passes from behind them.
Comparing results in other matches is just pointless. We had enough to see off Sunderland last night. We just screwed up. Again.
39 Posted 23/11/2010 at 11:35:59
40 Posted 23/11/2010 at 12:27:12
Oh, I forgot, defenders are taught to NOT play the whistle and just stop if they THINK it's offside. Madness. It was offside ? FACT. We were unlucky to concede an illegal goal.
41 Posted 23/11/2010 at 13:02:00
I know he scored the equaliser, but Arteta should have been subbed earlier in place of Rodwell. He just couldn't get in the game whatsoever.
And those that have been saying Pienaar is playing rubbish... what planet are you on? His interchange play with Baines is one of our very few attacking outlets and most teams struggle to contain them. The only flaw I see in his game is his shooting ability (like with all of our midfielders... and strikers for that matter).
42 Posted 23/11/2010 at 13:40:20
43 Posted 23/11/2010 at 14:23:44
Howard - Hibbert, Jagielka, Heitinga, Baines - Fellaini - Arteta, Rodwell, Pienaar - Cahill - Yakubu
44 Posted 24/11/2010 at 18:59:06
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