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Saha?

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Can someone please explain to me why, when we clear the ball out of defence, "King" Louis is almost always stood out near the touchline and not near the middle of the pitch? Standing close enough to Moyes so that he could pull him off means that he has almost no chance of winning/getting near the ball. He is bloody frustrating to say the least. Bring back the Yak.
Lee Courtliff, Burnley     Posted 23/11/2010 at 23:20:49

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Kirk McArdle
1   Posted 24/11/2010 at 01:57:27

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Maybe he likes to be close to the tunnel so he can find his way to the treatment table quickly!!

Hang on......... If he was injured maybe the Yak would be in the starting lineup again. Surely the Saha jinx should be upon him again soon.
Roy Coyne
2   Posted 24/11/2010 at 02:07:04

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I think it's so he has not got far to walk to the subs' bench.
Chris Cook
3   Posted 24/11/2010 at 03:04:29

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Moyes diverted Yak's supply of KFC on the hour to Saha's room?
Eric Myles
4   Posted 24/11/2010 at 05:06:36

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That's the same place the Yak can be found as well so it's probably tactical.
Steven Pendleton
5   Posted 24/11/2010 at 06:21:07

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Finger needs to be pointed, more so, at Moyes than anyone for Saha. Just when the Yak was coming good and putting in a good shift he gets dropped and Saha comes in.

Then Saha gets played while underdone and now his confidence is shattered. Not only has Moyes shattered the Yak's and Beckford's confidence, but he's gone for the trifecta and fucked Saha as well.

Good work Davey boy!!!
Alan Clarke
6   Posted 24/11/2010 at 08:41:18

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It doesn't matter where he stands, he's shit.
Ian McDowell
7   Posted 24/11/2010 at 08:44:19

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Saha isn?t shit he is obviously a talented player, yes he needs to work harder but he also needs some service.

I was thinking the same thing during the game, I would have told him go no wider than the edge of the penalty area. Too many times when the ball was cleared it went straight to a Sunderland centre back who never had a blue shirt within 10 yards of him.

There was even a time during the first half we had all 11 players within 30 yards of the goal line, and we wonder why we were on the back foot.
Dave Lynch
8   Posted 24/11/2010 at 09:02:49

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Beattie, Johnson, Yak and now Saha. All turned from goal scoring machines into aimless channel runners.

Moyes is a fucking clown when it comes to strikers.

Chris Matheson
9   Posted 24/11/2010 at 09:03:59

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Lee, this is entirely down to the style we play: always play the ball out to the wings and then lump a cross in.

We ruined Andy Johnson in this way; how many times did I see him scampering down into the corner to chase a long ball, but playing on his own of course so once he got there, there was nowhere to go and nobody to pass it to.

Ditto Saha, who is not as fast; if he is the only player forward in a 4-5-1 then our insistence on always playing it out wide for a cross back in means he is the one who has to chase it and them lump it in to ... errr ... himself? or nobody until the defence has had a chance to regroup and reorganise.

Wouldn't it be nice to see us play the ball through the middle sometimes, preferably on the ground (although a ball like that to Beckford on Monday would suffice) where our striker can run on direct to goal and, hey, even have a shot!

Until we cease this slow and one-dimensional attack playing the ball out sideways then a high cross back in, we'll continue to score few goals.
Anthony Millington
10   Posted 24/11/2010 at 09:32:39

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Moyes is unbelievable sometimes, clueless. Maybe someone should show him our away record when Yakubu plays and compare it to when Saha plays instead. There is an incredible difference. We never win away when Saha plays upfront, because he can't hold the ball up.

You would have thought Moyes might have learnt that by now, but no... Saha has earnt his place in the team ahead of Yakubu after his 9-month stretch of no goals. Interestingly, the one away game we actually won this season against Birmingham was when Yakubu played and Saha didn't.

It infuriates me also to see him persist with Heitinga in midfield after him being so good last year playing him in his best position. He always starts the team with a negative look about it and then at the end when it's too late he then decides to bring the likes of Heitinga off and the with 10 minutes to go he will finally go with two upfront. It is laughable.

Chris Fisher
11   Posted 24/11/2010 at 10:37:36

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Beckford is the only one who offers something different but I'm not sure he's ready for the Premier League as that miss on Monday probably showed.

The thing is, even if we played him a lot and he got up to the standard he needs to be at, and became a goal scoring machine for a season, we would soon find him sprinting towrads the corner flags and looking confused as to what's going on ? as has happened with AJ, Yak and now Saha!!

Mike McLean
12   Posted 24/11/2010 at 11:19:45

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Standing by the touchline, waiting to get pulled off by Moyes.

Now there's an (unattractive) thought.
Anthony Hughes
13   Posted 24/11/2010 at 11:43:03

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King Louis? More like Louis Walsh at the moment.
Dick Fearon
14   Posted 24/11/2010 at 11:37:17

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Saha hogs the wing because Moyes tells him to. The idea is to draw centre backs out of position. Our other striker drags his marker to the other wing and that leaves a whopping great gap straight through the middle of the opposition defence. Just another of Moyes's brilliant attacking strategies.

Whats that you say? ? we don't have that other striker... My god! Does Davy know about this???

Alan Clarke
15   Posted 24/11/2010 at 11:55:17

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Did that get picked up on camera, Mike?

Saha is shit because he's old. Moyes and Everton haven't ruined him, injuries and age have. He is immobile and because of his injuries is scared. This makes him lazy.

The other 'goalscoring machines' Beattie and Johnson were strikers who had one good season before coming to Everton. They then got found out. Everton didn't ruin them, they just weren't very good in the first place.

The solution to our striker problem is not really going to be fixed by the strikers we have. Between them, they've managed 2 goals this season so there's not really a strong argument to replace any with another. The only solution is Moyes buying a striker and we all know how likely that is!
Stephen Kenny
16   Posted 24/11/2010 at 12:07:54

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Dave,

Couldn't agree more. He is the papers this week saying he needs to work harder??? FFS tell him he's in there to hit the net. Not run round like a headless chicken til he's fucked.
Norman Merrill
17   Posted 24/11/2010 at 12:15:59

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I just wonder if Davey Moyes's dad was a Thatcherite, because when the the word striker is ever mentioned, Moyes fucks them up.
Dave Charles
18   Posted 24/11/2010 at 12:50:22

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How many times on Monday did Cahill run past Saha closing down their defence while lazyarse stood and watched?

I think I'll start crying if he plays on Saturday. I'll kill myself if he plays again.
KPR Williams
19   Posted 24/11/2010 at 13:00:30

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Check out Saha's positioning when Cahill nods our 1st in... not even in the box; can't be arsed. Yak looks like he's put a stone back on since he's been dropped.
Mike Rourke
20   Posted 24/11/2010 at 13:19:28

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In a way, you can't blame Saha; after all those injuries and ops, he must have the body of a 50-year-old.

Running around chasing balls, closing down defenders, moving into space and swinging your leg back to take a shot, well, that's work for young 'uns. I think he should be afforded a pair of slippers, a copy of the Telegraph, a wingbacked chair, and be left to wind down his Everton career quietly napping in the centre circle.
Dave Lynch
21   Posted 24/11/2010 at 13:24:39

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Alan @ 14. They had good seasons because they played in a strikers role. They got "Found out " as you put it because they where played out of position and asked to do things that where alien to them. Strikers play up front and lead the line, they do not run into corners chasing aimless hoof balls.

Moyes is a cowardly gobshite when it comes to attacking teams. That's how we let Sunderland back into the game: go one up and retreat into our own half to defend what we have. I am fucking sick of it!

Lee Courtliff
22   Posted 24/11/2010 at 13:28:07

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Thanks for the responses, lads. I was worried my first contribution to Toffeeweb might get ignored. By the way, I am not a Saha hater, I just think he is lazy and the Yak is a much better all-round striker. Especially at holding the ball up! Come on Blues!!!
Jay Harris
23   Posted 24/11/2010 at 13:40:21

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IT IS VERY STRANGE that Saha wasnt immobile nor ineffective just before getting his contract renewal!!

Oh hang on, somebody else has just had a bumper new contract and is also playing shit.

And the one player really putting a shift in is the one whose contract ends soon...
Joseph Strumm
24   Posted 24/11/2010 at 13:48:33

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I'm with #6 ? Alan, Saha is shite, he's finished as a top class footballer and looking at his recent body language and application, he couldn't give two fucks for the Everton cause. DM made a major boob giving the waste of space a two-year deal, he's got to be shown the door in January and actually shouldn't even make our bench from now on.

Personally, I'd like to see Beckford on from the start against WBA with Cahill up next to him and Arteta given the freedom to get right up behind them. Rodwell can hold the middle. Sahahahahaha don't make me laugh!

Tony J Williams
25   Posted 24/11/2010 at 13:55:53

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Dave, maybe you can explain then how Yakubu scored 20 his first season and AJ scored 12/13 his first season (no penalties like his 20 goals season, wasn't it 8 or 9?)

If they can do it in their first season, why is continuing to do the exact same thing ruining them?

How is it cowardly playing the same way against the "bigger" teams as the "lesser" ones? Surely he would change the formation instead of keeping it the same if he was so scared of them?
Anthony Millington
26   Posted 24/11/2010 at 14:13:15

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Tony, it's hard to go much more defensive against the bigger teams than we do for any other game. Moyes already plays two defenders in midfield in Heitinga and Coleman, because he's scared of playing the "lesser" teams nevermind the "bigger" teams. How much more defensive could you get?

Moyes's tactics are so predictable. Why do Everton rarely win by more than one goal? Because when we go 1-0 up Moyes tells our players to defend a lead, rather than build on it and finish them off.

It's no wonder the passion of the fans and atmosphere is sometimes lost when Moyes's negativity is spreading through the club like a disease. What message must this send out to the players? Sit back and defend because you are not good enough to win by more. Moyes goes on about us being a top four team, then why don't we do more to attack the "lesser" teams.

Ray Robinson
27   Posted 24/11/2010 at 15:03:49

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On a slightly different but Saha-related note, did anyone notice at Sunderland, how Saha positively encouraged the long punt from the back? I watched a few times as Louis, in line with the central defender, raised his arm to signal to Jags to belt it over the top. Whether these are Moyes's instructions or just Jags's lack of options, we'll never know... but the long punt over the top was being positively encouraged by Saha.

To the best of my recollection, the tactic has only worked twice (against Pompey away when we won 1-0 and against Chelsea at home when we won 2-1).

My own personal opinion on Saha is that he over-elaborates and that he should just get back to instinctive play where he hits the ball first time.
KPR Williams
28   Posted 24/11/2010 at 15:10:14

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Think its just how it pans out. Do you think Steve Bruce told Sunderland to sit back when they went 2-1 up? They played the whole game on the break. They ran our midfield down when we were in possession and forced errors, much like we have done for years only they had a potent threat up front where we have a dead duck.

Against Arsenal, Fabregas played on the edge of his own box for most of the 1st half... it was him Coleman ran past for the Cahill chance. We were the better team against a team that has only been beaten at home once in 2010 ? and that was at the beginning of the year. We'll get it right; I'm certain of it.

Dave Lynch
29   Posted 24/11/2010 at 15:11:06

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Tony.
When do you see Utd, Chelsea or Arsenal defend a one goal lead when they score early? They go and finish the game off; we on the other hand...

As for the striker's role? Then you will have to ask Davey boy that one, one thing I do know, though, is you can't be effective as a striker playing wide and chasing aimless balls into corners.
KPR Williams
30   Posted 24/11/2010 at 15:51:11

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All those teams are excellent counter-attacking teams; these days, we are not. Remember that Osman goal in Europe a few season back?
Steve Pugh
31   Posted 24/11/2010 at 16:38:53

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Anthony (#26), please tell me you are not having a dig at DM because he is playing Seamus in midfield. Probably 90% of people on here complained that he didn't play him in midfield, now you say he is overly defensive because he does.
Tony J Williams
32   Posted 24/11/2010 at 16:22:42

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Dave, we are not anywhere as good as Utd, Chelsea or Arsenal and their players are miles better than ours so what's your point?

I asked a question about how can playing a 4-5-1 against the likes of Chelsea be considered more defensive than playing a 4-5-1 against Wolves? It's the same players in the same positions but somehow that 4-5-1 is more defensive than the other 4-5-1.

Nothing to do with how the 3 best teams in the league play, as we are nowhere near the best 3 teams in the league.

Also again no response to the Yak/AJ theory.
Rob Hollis
33   Posted 24/11/2010 at 18:52:38

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He stands close enough to Moyes so that he could WHAT!!!

David Hallwood
34   Posted 24/11/2010 at 18:51:52

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Jay Harris (#23) ? Great minds think alike.. .well mine and yours. I think an economist could produce a graph, and it would probably be an inverted 'v' proving when it comes to Everton players the steeper the rise in wages, there is a corresponding down gradient in the productivity of that player.

Look on the bright side; It's a good job Saha & Arteta didn't get £100k per week ? how shite would they be???
Jimmy Hacking
35   Posted 24/11/2010 at 19:49:34

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What is especially frustrating about Saha is that when he's good he's very very fucking good. When we were shite in the first quarter of last season, he was lethal, I honestly wouldn't have swapped him for any other striker. He seemed to convert roughly one out of every two chances (just as well, since we weren't creating many) and, unlike Yakubu, he seems able to conjure goals out of very little.

So why is he now playing so atrociously?

I'm not trying to sound all Nostradamusey but I was clamouring for him to be sold in the summer, along with Yakubu. So what if Saha eventually taps in three or four this season, this isn't good enough for Everton. For Moyes to persist with these poor players is an insult to us supporters.
Tony J Williams
36   Posted 24/11/2010 at 21:28:17

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Jimmy, he has to persist because there is no-one else and no mullah to bring anyone of note in, unfortunately.
Dave Lynch
37   Posted 24/11/2010 at 23:04:38

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Come off it, Tony! Moyes has stated he has the best squad we have ever had. Yet against so-called inferior opposition, like Wolves, Stoke, Bolton et al, we struggle and we struggle because he's so defensive minded.

As for the striker conundrum, play them as strikers, not ball chasers.

Ernie McAllister
38   Posted 25/11/2010 at 07:29:55

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Yak? 38-year-old battleship... please ? he should have been sold for £6 mil to the Hammers back last July.

And Saha, I can't understand why anyone is even complaining about the lad... we knew he was a liability from the get go. If anything, it's Moyes who needs the finger pointing at.
Tony J Williams
39   Posted 25/11/2010 at 08:55:03

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Yep, Dave, it is "his" best squad but obviously some way below the likes of Utd, Chelski and Arsenal. So again, it's pointless comparing us to them.

We are an average side that occassionally manage some good results against the better teams. It is that simple and a 4-5-1 is a 4-5-1 no matter which team you play.
Brian Waring
40   Posted 25/11/2010 at 10:12:52

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That's it, Tony, we are an average side, with a decent manager, some on here though can't grasp that.
Dave Lynch
41   Posted 25/11/2010 at 10:11:55

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Thing is, Tony, this may be a daft statement to some, but, I don't think we are "some way below" the top 4. With a bit more guile and an attacking philosophy, I think we could well finish top 5 easily.
Tony J Williams
42   Posted 25/11/2010 at 10:44:46

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Dave, I think with a £30M forward we could get top 5 but unfortunately we will never see that happen unless one comes through the ranks ? and then how long could we keep him for?
Dave Lynch
43   Posted 25/11/2010 at 12:21:22

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It's sad mate, it really is.
So much expectation dashed.
Albert Perkins
44   Posted 26/11/2010 at 22:25:56

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I'm just wondering, like, what it's like to watch a game when you are as negative as many seem to be on this website. Is it just a series of niggles and complaints and badmouthing? I wouldn't want to sit next to someone like you.

I'm no Pollyanna, but I try to be as upbeat as possible, giving the lads some positive support. I know football is about competition, but you can take it to extremes. Sure, vent a bit, but go out there and give them the old COYB!

Anthony Millington
45   Posted 27/11/2010 at 00:53:22

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Steve, my point is that when we play "lesser" teams Moyes could use midfielders in midfield rather than defenders. Some teams barely attack us all game so we could be more adventurous and play Coleman as a full back and invest in a natural attacking wide player. Does that not make sense to you?

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