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The long goodbye

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Those who are seeking decisive action from our chairman can forget it. We have a chairman who, don't forget, refused to sack Walter Smith on the spot after we lost 3-0 at home to Tranmere and allowed a sinking ship to limp on for another dire 12 months. When you add in the following factors, the chances of Moyes being sacked are nil.

Firstly, Kenwright's tenure as Chairman is based solely upon a policy of wait, hope and delay ? the NTL and Kings Dock fiasco's are clear evidence of this and of the resulting massive damage that happens to the club as a result.

Secondly, sacking Moyes will cost Kenwright money (the payout will lower the sale value of the club) and Kenwright will do everything possible to avoid this.

Finally, Kenwight actually believes Moyes is a world class manager, despite all the evidence to the contrary (a Moyes team always chokes when the expectation levels rise) ? in particular, the club's rapid decline in the last 18 months. I believe he would continue to believe this fantasy up to and beyond relegation.

The only very slim chance of Moyes going early is if he is subject to a consistent, sustained and vocal OUT campaign. Normally, I would doubt our fans' heart for such action but judging by the anger evident at yesterday's game everyone should stand by ? it's about to get nasty.

In many ways, this would be a great shame as Moyes has been a good and at times very good manager but all the signs are there of an end-of-days feel to his time at the club. When those in power refuse to act, then the fans have to make their feelings known.


John Doolan, UK     Posted 28/11/2010 at 12:02:16

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John Daley
1   Posted 28/11/2010 at 15:54:04

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My own stance on the matter is that a change has been necessary for quite some while. There is a stench of complacency about the club and Moyes managerial reign has become stagnated.

I would love to see what effect new ideas, a fresh perspective, and different methods would have on the players currently at the club. I am sure you will get the usual responses from those fearful of any change: "Well, who else could we get that would do a better job than Moyes?". Baldrick from Blackadder could do a better job than Moyes at the moment. The guy is drifting aimlessly. He may turn it round in the short term and get us up into mid-table but it's never long before we're ready to start the whole repetitive cycle all over again.

The deal breaker for me is the number of Evertonians who I have spoken to who are simply being sapped of their enthusiasm for going to the match. With the exception of the derby, there has been no pleasure, excitement or entertainment to be derived from it at all this season.
Andy Crooks
2   Posted 28/11/2010 at 16:24:23

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John, Kenwright will never sack Moyes. He is the £3.5 million a year barrier between him and the fans. This luvvy double act are well on the way to destroying the club. Moyes has a job for life and his tactical ineptitude will never come under scrutiny ? apart from on this site.

The media love the pair of them. "Loyal chairman", "true blue", "great job under difficult circumstances", "manager of the month five hundred times", "respected by his peers"...

This pair are bleeding the club dry. Kenwright is a free-loading lying luvvy and Moyes is his overpaid facilitating flunky.

Ste Traverse
3   Posted 28/11/2010 at 16:42:24

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Kenwright is too comfortable with Moyes so there is no chance of him getting rid and risk bringing a manager in who wouldn't pander to him like Moyes does.

I appreciate what Moyes has done over the last 8½ years but it really is time for change.

I don't appreciate a thing that lying twat Kenwright has done as this gobshite has done nothing but hold this club back. But his arrogance and massive ego will make sure this shit will never step aside for a long time to come.
Al Reddish
4   Posted 28/11/2010 at 17:27:32

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Moyes should not be sacked (just yet anyway.) He should have a chairman that backs him where it maters most. We have finished 7th, 6th, 5th twice and even 4th. Any other club (e.g. Spurs) would have built on this and invested in the team. Instead, we have had to sell some of our better players to finance moves for others, and giving him a paltry shitty £1m this summer (from the sales of Ruddy and Jutkiewicz) was downright disgusting.
John Gee
5   Posted 28/11/2010 at 17:31:27

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What the fuck is up you lot? You all think you're Alan Sugar?
Alan Clarke
6   Posted 28/11/2010 at 18:06:12

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John, can you please provide a defence of Moyes? I'm sure you're very proud of your witty remark but most of us are struggling to see why he should stay. Even if we stay up, we're drifting aimlessly because of Moyes's tired old tactics.
Steve Guy
7   Posted 28/11/2010 at 18:20:41

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News of the Screws says he heads Spurs' list to replace Hawwy Wednapp next year... so you might get your wish then.

I would just say that, whilst we have clearly lost our way this season, form is temporary but class is permanent and we have too many class players (same as last year by the way and same manager) for this to continue too much longer.
Leon Perrin
8   Posted 28/11/2010 at 18:34:00

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I don't think the Moyes pay-off should be a consideration, a man of Kenwright's calibre will surely have it ringfenced. No problem.
Marc Williams
9   Posted 28/11/2010 at 18:34:01

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John Gee (#5) We don't need any more apologists on this site, not even an apprentice one. So, with regret... YOU'RE FIRED!

Oh and if there's room in the back of the the cab, take Moyes & the Everton Board with you.
Marc Williams
10   Posted 28/11/2010 at 18:44:02

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Leon Perrin (#8) ? You've got a good point there but do you think Moyes would actually believe that "his cheque would be in the bank in the morning"?

What worries me is that, if Kenwright looks for a new manager 24/7, we'll be managerless for years!
Erik Dols
11   Posted 28/11/2010 at 19:42:37

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The one thing I fear most is who BK will get as his replacement. I'm not so sure we would be better off...
Dean Adams
12   Posted 28/11/2010 at 19:32:07

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Oh what fun we had.....

I find it difficult to believe that so many people can deny the bare-faced facts. Year-in, year-out, £ for points WE are one of the best value clubs in the Premier League. Is it luck?

According to some it is. Others have faith in a regime that has kept an underfunded club in the league and better than that, European qualification on several occasions.

We do not have a god-given right to compete at the top and from what I have seen repeatedly year after year, the promoted sides do OK till Christmas and then fade away. This is where our experience and quality start to show.

We would all love to be billionairres but I doubt that too many posters on this site are. However if you are, then there is a quaint little club that is looking for a face-lift!!!

Alan Clarke
13   Posted 28/11/2010 at 19:56:47

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Dean, Moyes is the 8th highest spending manager in the league. We don't have a god-given right to win every game but we have a right not to be relegation fodder once again. Also, as a season ticket holder, I have a right to some entertainment.

This attitude that we shouldn't expect anything because we're skint is garbage. Look at the amount of money forked out on transfers and wages (including the manager's) compared to teams around us. Do Blackpool or West Brom have a £9M player? And do they leave him on the bench? Do they pay their strikers over £50k a week not to score? Skint, my arse. We just have a shit manager.

Robbie Muldoon
14   Posted 28/11/2010 at 20:03:35

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Here's an idea... if Moyes left us for another job and took every player at the club with him, would you be happy about that? No.

The players are playing for Everton ? not Moyes. Managers come and go, as do players, and right now, regardless of who brought these players to the club, I would love to see the effect a more positive-minded manager would have on them. I think they would be lethal.

I want change, simple as. The alternative is stagnation, mediocrity and FAILURE.
Simon Jenkins
15   Posted 28/11/2010 at 20:10:39

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If people think changing the manager will improve anything at Everton Football Club, then they want their heads feeling. We are the way we are because we have no money. End of story. Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING goes back to our lack of finances.

Moyes has had bad spells before and dragged us out of them. Have some faith, remember the three previous occasions the man has dragged us out of the mire, and stop the knee-jerking. Things aren't great, but they are easily fixable, and do not need the manager to be changed.
Alan Clarke
16   Posted 28/11/2010 at 20:19:54

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Simon, go away and look up how much has been spent on our squad. Compare it to teams around us.
Dean Adams
17   Posted 28/11/2010 at 20:17:04

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Alan Clarke:

"This attitude that we shouldn't expect anything because we're skint is garbage." ? Never said or implied that.

As for the Baggies and their "boing, boing" up and down that we haven't had to endure. Get real. We have the players to compete at the top end of the league. I agree with the entertainment side of things but believe that Moyes is attempting to make us a better side, hence the Arsenal Lite tag we recently heard. A few bad results and so many people overreact, as usual.

John Gee
18   Posted 28/11/2010 at 20:04:07

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So Marc Williams, I'm an appologist? Does that make you a vindictivist?

I'm not appologising on behalf of David Moyes. Or Bill Kenwright for that matter. I just don't get this "sack everyone" attitude that is so prevalent in this pages. It's pathetic to see vindictive people calling for someone to lose their job because they haven't over achieved enough. You are standing on the sidelines critisising a man who has done consistently well for our club. Even if the unthinkable happened and we got relegated we have the right man in charge. He's done fucking well for us, things are a bit dodgy right now, but he can turn that around.

And this bollocks that he's the 8th highest spending manager, is that net spend? Does it take into account that he's been in the job longer than the others?

And while we're at it, let's get something straight... we can't win the league, no matter who is in charge. A ref won't give us an extra 7 minutes at Old Trafford when we're one down or give us a last-minute penalty for a blatant dive at Anfield, or blow the whistle just as the opposing team are about to see a ball cross our goalline.

If you want to rail against something, how about that instead blaming the guy who raised our expectations.

Ian McPherson
19   Posted 28/11/2010 at 20:14:55

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Should he stay or should he go? I have been a Moyes fan from Day One. But this season I think maybe he has just run his course and we have gone stale. We are too predictable and negative. Moyes is stubborn and loyal, both has worked againist us too often this season.

The only people in relation to this club that will always give 100% passion and commitment is the fans. Don't mix up our manger and players with that. They get paid to.
Stew Marsland
20   Posted 28/11/2010 at 20:24:42

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Yesterday, in the Lower Gwladys, I heard abuse like never before for the players and Moyes. It is clear he has lost the fans... and, judging by performances, he has lost the team also.

Playing players out of position and being so defensively minded is costing us dear. Every time he is asked to step to the next level he fails. Now he does not seem to have the players for holding out and sneaking a 1-0. I fear that this team is not up for a relegation fight, simply because the players are not of that type.

For this club to be taken further requires a coach of much better quality and so, for this reason, I believe Moyes should step aside. However, luvvy bullshit has not got the balls, simply because he knows no other coach would take his bullshit.

We are season ticket holders and I have been attending since 1983 so yes I know what the great team was and I will never see the same again in my lifetime, but I want my kids to, and there is only one way we are going now ? down. Kenwright and Moyes have to be forced out somehow... How does he get away with no protests at the match???

Dean Adams
21   Posted 28/11/2010 at 20:33:19

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John Gee
You'll get lynched for comments like that. I'll be there with you though. Shame more like you don't stick up for their club.
Ian McPherson
22   Posted 28/11/2010 at 20:45:54

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Vagner is going out tonight and will be looking for work. Moyes, you have been warned.
John Gee
23   Posted 28/11/2010 at 20:50:58

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Ian, what are you talking about? Wagner is a credit to our club, he's been the best thing to happen in the Blue half of Merseyside in a long... sorry, getting confused here! :)

Sack Vagner!
Ian McPherson
24   Posted 28/11/2010 at 20:55:08

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Arsene Vagner, who knows what he could offer?
Michael Kenrick
25   Posted 28/11/2010 at 21:00:16

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Arsene Vagner?!?!

Don't you mean Ricardo Vagner (aka Richard Wagner)?!?! He pens a really good tune you know...
Marc Williams
26   Posted 28/11/2010 at 20:59:32

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John Gee 18# ? I was just joking with your Alan Sugar comment but, in your little rant (#18), you certainly sound like an apologist!

I like your 'vindictivist' (nice one) but would prefer vindictavista though, as it sounds better. How's about you call me that & I'll call you an apolagista instead?
John Gee
27   Posted 28/11/2010 at 21:37:05

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Marc, you have a deal, sir.
David Hallwood
28   Posted 28/11/2010 at 21:53:36

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Why is it just Moyes & Kenwright that's getting the flak, what about the players? Go to TW this time last year and the posters were saying we must keep King Louis at all costs but it looks like he's on his way to Arsenal. Likewise Arteta in the summer.

The club gives these two class acts great contracts and they repay the club by being shit ? in Arteta's case, let's hope is just a blip, but Saha... FFS he looks like he's not arsed.

Now that's hardly Moyes's fault ? he could hardly have predicted that two senior pros wouldn't produce and, unlike Spurs, we haven't got top drawer replacements.

In a nutshell, the problem this season is that our forwards are firing blanks, and really Yak & Saha must show some pride and when they go out to play give 100% ? is that too much to ask?

Dean Adams
29   Posted 28/11/2010 at 22:18:32

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Alan Clarke ? Where do you get your figures? We have spent about £3M a year, which leaves us mid-table. Considering back in 1992 we had no players worth any money, then you realise that Moyes has worked a minor miracle that other managers have tried to copy.
Ste Traverse
30   Posted 29/11/2010 at 04:51:11

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Dean. It's laughable to say we had no players worth any value in 92. Keown went for £2.2M in the 92-93 season and Beardsley went for £1.5M at the end of that season. And Big Nev was only 33 then (still fairly young for a keeper) and he could have fetched a few quid.

Bear in mind the British record was Alan Shearer at £3.6M at that time.

Dean, that's yet more apologist shite.
Lee Courtliff
31   Posted 29/11/2010 at 06:29:30

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It has just occured to me that there is no need to panic!!! You know why? We just had our "DISASTER" game!!! Just like last season at Hull. Now we are feeling a sense of injustice due to the red card we (the players) will pull together and turn in another superb 2nd half of the season!!

We will only JUST miss out on Champs League/Europa League/Cup Final Glory and everything will be alright. If we do not... then maybe, just maybe it really is time up for Moyes.

I am generally a fan of Davey, always have been... even though he sometimes baffles me. However, nothing lasts forever. There is no way we should get rid of him now. No way. I hope he gets the success we ALL deserve. But he must shake things up. No alternative now. COYB!!

Derek Thomas
32   Posted 29/11/2010 at 06:56:59

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Moyes, who used to be described by some as cautious and prudent (along with the old standby ? The dour Calvinistic work ethic)

Well when did cautious and prudent become FEARFUL and WEAK...???

Just about... NOW!!!
Tony I'Anson
33   Posted 29/11/2010 at 08:26:06

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Haven't read all the comments above. My worries are these...

1) Any one of 8 to 10 teams could go down this season, and we are in this group.

2) Other teams know how to play us and get a result.

3) Player frustration and blame game starting to creep into the dressing room, which can only have one outcome.

4) Do we have any Big Men!! In big league business, big men have to make big decisions. I'm not saying get rid of anyone, but I am saying it's time for every single person with a role at Everton FC to become a big man and step up to the plate.

5) FA Cup 3rd round tie v Scunthorpe, I dread the worst.

6) Game v Chelsea not likely to bring a return of 3 points.

These are just my worries for this week. I hope there aren't any more.
Gavin Ramejkis
34   Posted 29/11/2010 at 10:45:07

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I grow more and more alarmed every season at Everton and here's why for me:

David Moyes doesn't learn from his mistakes, football evolves and his one trick pony football has well and truly been found out by every manager in the league - if you haven't a trick to win a game then how will you win a game?

David Moyes sticks will poor performing players and formations putting players out of position week in week out, any run of fortune seems to coincide with injuries which force his hand, when he has players available he hasn't a clue

David Moyes buys players and tries to force them into shite unsuitable positions or has existing players and does the same - Bily an inside right as a winger (never going to happen), Heitinga a world cup finalist as a centre half as a midfielder (never going to happen), Beckford a striker who has played his entire short career off a target man played isolated (never going to work), Osman left as a winger for years when he is a central midfielder (remember the FA Cup final I'm sure Tony Hibbert does)

The general lack of spine from the fans at the game - who the fuck suddenly turned the Everton fans into a bunch of scared little girls - complain about Kenwrong, complain about Moyes, dont be fucking sheep -oooh we are scared of change

Finally, no one is too good to go down, never believe that shite, the table doesn't lie
Sam Hoare
35   Posted 29/11/2010 at 11:51:25

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Moyes gets tarnished with being predictable and negative... on Saturday he made two early changes, switching thinsg up and going attacking even with 10 men.

Result. We lost. Badly.

Sometimes your damned if you do and your damned if you don't.

Personally wouldn't mind a change, if nothing else just to re-spark my interest, but all this slating of Moyes is uncalled for. He has done some sterling work for us. That doesn't mean he should stay necessarily but please let's not throw stones like spoilt children...
Chris Sillett
36   Posted 29/11/2010 at 12:22:25

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I think I'll be voting with my feet in the summer. Unless something changes at the club, either Moyes leaving or Kenwright going, I can't see myself renewing my season ticket.

It's just utter garbage at the moment, it was the same situation this time last year and it's not going to be any different next season. £500+ to sit in the freezing cold to watch us get out-played by West Brom? Naaa, not anymore thanks.
Peter Fearon
37   Posted 29/11/2010 at 21:06:22

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Simon Jenkins, what you posted about David Moyes' ability to 'pull us out of the mire' is like me saying, 'stopping smoking is easy, I have given it up many times.' How many times is he going to pull us out of the mire before he is rightly blamed for putting us there?

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