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I'm just not happy with Pienaar

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I suppose this has already been done to death... however, the comment in the News section from Pienaar's agent has started getting me irked again.

This guy had nowhere to go when we picked him up, by his own admission he was 'lost' in German football. We give him a platform, give him some love and attention (awwww) and he cant even be arsed to tell his if he's staying or not.

"An announcement will be made shortly"... I'm sorry mate you're hardly David Beckham in terms of status, and to be honest your ability divides opinion here on the forums.

Now I know somebody will come in with the 'modern day footballer' 'players rights' bollocks. But all I'm asking for is some old fashioned decency from somebody who could easily be playing in the second tier of German football.
Ste Boyle, Liverpool     Posted 07/12/2010 at 15:56:03

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KPR Williams
1   Posted 07/12/2010 at 16:56:43

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Let him go warm the bench somewhere else...

Goodbye and good luck.
Mark Murphy
2   Posted 07/12/2010 at 17:13:06

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"... somebody who could easily be playing in the second tier of German football."

Sorry, I've not much sympathy for Pienaar either but that statement is miles off!

We should have sold him before now, as well as he may have played since turning down our offer (and personally I dont think he has been that good!) but he's still good enough for most teams outside the Champions League and even a good few in it.
Tony J Williams
3   Posted 07/12/2010 at 17:32:36

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I want him to stay but not too bothered if he does go.
Ciarán McGlone
4   Posted 07/12/2010 at 17:41:40

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Bye, bye.
Andy Codling
5   Posted 07/12/2010 at 17:51:06

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People keep saying he's replaceable, yeah he would be if you had a chairman with even a bit of money. How the fuck are we going to replace him with no money?

We should have sold him six months ago or offered him the extra cash... after all, he's done more than Arteta this year, who seems to get off scot free with all the "money-grabbing twat" jibes.

Anthony Millington
6   Posted 07/12/2010 at 18:02:32

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His agent bangs on about his fantastic performances! How many games have we won when he has played? How many goals has he scored? He's really not that fantastic, why has nothing been agreed yet? Probably because he's had no offers!
Chris Matheson
7   Posted 07/12/2010 at 18:00:42

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I really hope he stays and I agree there must be some element of service obligation when we "picked him out and shook him up and turned him around, turned him into someone new" (ahem).

I would give young Steven four words of warning when it comes to Spurs 'nicking' Everton players and targets: "Kyle Walker" and "Kyle Naughton"... at least I think that is what their names were.

Spurs are playing well, are in Europe, have money etc etc, but the grass ain't always greener, son.
Lee Courtliff
8   Posted 07/12/2010 at 18:08:22

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Why do people keep saying we should have sold Pienaar months ago? Did anyone actually bid for him? How much were they offering? How can we sell him if nobody is bidding for him? At least to my knowledge no club has put in an offer. I don't mean a bullshit tabloid offer either, I mean an actual concrete offer. We cannot blame Moyes or BK if nobody is interested until he is a free agent.
Peter Webster
9   Posted 07/12/2010 at 18:00:01

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I'd get rid of Saha and offer Pienaar the extra money. He's been a good player for us; one of the few so far this season at any rate. And if he still wants to go I'll give him my best wishes. He's not hiding and seems to be giving 100% every game. Wish he'd stay though, that's a boss partnership with Baines.
Ray Robinson
10   Posted 07/12/2010 at 18:24:19

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Anthony (#6), my view is that the guy is currently playing his socks off ? professional to the last. No, he hasn't scored many goals but how many have resulted from Baines's crosses as a result of smart interplay with him? How many times does he provide an outlet for a defence under pressure? How many fouls that he draws provide ammunition for us to launch an attack?

Only the absence of genuine pace over a distance of more than 10 yards prevents Pienaar from being a truly world class performer and he really will be missed. Perhaps we'll see this in the impact on Baines more than anything else?
Lance Manion
11   Posted 07/12/2010 at 18:32:02

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Swap him to Spurs in January for Kranjcar or use him as a player plus cash deal for one of the Spurs strikers. (That's if Billy boy can find a few quid down the back of his sofa.)
Ste Traverse
12   Posted 07/12/2010 at 18:47:46

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Who can blame Pienaar for wanting to move on from a club as unambitious as ours?
Wayne Smyth
13   Posted 07/12/2010 at 18:42:00

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I don't understand why people are having a go at him.

He is one of the very few players who generally plays well and ALWAYS gives 100% effort in every game, chasing and running and playing football the way most of us want to see it being played.

Yes he was having a bad time when we got him, but he signed his contract and honoured it. He has kept his head down worked especially hard this last season. If he now wishes to move on once his contract expires, he has my good wishes, at least. No-one can say he's been anything less than honest. We all knew this was coming from a long way off.
Mike Rourke
14   Posted 07/12/2010 at 19:02:11

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I'll be sad to see him go because I'm a sucker for any player that looks like he's putting a shift in; however, I don't think his departure will have any kind of cataclysmic effect on the team.

In fact, if we can wrangle some sort of deal with Spurs so that we end up with Bentley then I will be over the moon.
Jimmy Hacking
15   Posted 07/12/2010 at 19:19:56

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Pienaar is a good player, not a great one. It will be a shame if he leaves but, let's face it, we signed him for peanuts and he has done very well for Everton.

I have little time for mercenaries, but somehow can't bring myself to dislike Pienaar, despite his renegotiating tactics. And he HAS consistently played well this season, face it. Good luck to him, I say.
Nelaj Behajiha
16   Posted 07/12/2010 at 19:28:18

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Let's be honest, this is all Moyes's fault. Numerous people were slated by Evertonians for suggesting he should be sold. I also believe Arteta wanted to leave yet actually nobody made any bids for him so he changed his story.

To be honest, I don't rate Pienaar to be anywhere near good enough to play for any of the top 4. Why Spurs would want him with Bale on the left and Lennon of the right, I don't know.

Frank Duffy
17   Posted 07/12/2010 at 19:30:47

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Would be a real shame if he went. Rather give him a pay rise than Arteta or Moyes. Who would we miss more? Unless we have a real world class player lined up (some chance!), we should do our best to keep him.

As others have already said, Baines will miss him. The two are the best pair in the league. The club will be the poorer if Pienaar does go.
Trevor Lynes
18   Posted 07/12/2010 at 19:27:09

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I totally agree with, Jimmy... Pienaar has played well all season and complements Baines perfectly. At the moment, those two are our only source of outfield goals ammunition, apart from the odd set-piece... Let's face it, he has been our best player apart from our defenders and, whilst he does not score often, his industry compensates.

Everyone is mercenary, we all want more money and football clubs don't show much mercy when they want players to leave... we are hanging on to the likes of Osman and Hibbert because we don't have the money to buy replacements.

Redknap has the midas touch and always sniffs out the clubs who will give him money for his wheeling and dealing... DM was just as mercenary when he held back on signing his new contract and I'm certain that, if Baines continues to turn in top performances, he will attract the usual vultures. We don't have many players who top clubs want so I can't blame Pienaar for wanting to go to a club that has ambition and realistic chances of winning trophies.

Get off the lad's back... he never fails to try his best in an Everton shirt and definitely never hides.

Matthew Lovekin
19   Posted 07/12/2010 at 19:57:16

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Plus points: Works hard, nice tricks.

Negative points: Not enough goals, not enough assists.

Summary: We need someone more productive if we want to be a top 4 side.
Ian Bennett
20   Posted 07/12/2010 at 20:10:10

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He's one of those players where the deal works for both parties. He works hard, is fairly creative, doesnt score enough and can give the ball away cheaply ? a better version than Radzinski of his day if you will. He is one of those who could go down hill rather than kick on.

I make him 29 in the new year. if someone wants to give him more than our £60k/wk 5-year deal than they are welcome to him. Anything over that looks dear on a player who will not score more than 5-6 a season.

I would like to him to stay ? but not for a ransom.
Leon Perrin
21   Posted 07/12/2010 at 20:04:45

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He's good for us but will be a squad player at Totters. Still, loads more money, non-stop London piss-ups and celebrity fanny will ease the pain.

Love the agent's blather, it's guaranteed money putting a bet on him being at Spurs next season.

Viv Sharma
22   Posted 07/12/2010 at 20:35:29

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Pienaar is an ok player but to be honest my gran could play LM and our Baines would make her look decent. Don't care who's in front of him. So long as we have LB, I don't really care. I say let SP go and we'll get someone who can get forwards and score.
Brian Waring
23   Posted 07/12/2010 at 20:49:37

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Viv, the reason why Baines gets forward so much is because of Pienaar.
Christopher McCullough
24   Posted 07/12/2010 at 21:38:27

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I know what you mean; however, If I followed your post to it's logical conclusion I wouldn't like any of our players, I would stop supporting Everton.

I love Pienaar. He's been one of our best players this season. I'll leave the hate for when he leaves in January.
Ciaran Duff
25   Posted 07/12/2010 at 21:44:50

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Just a general comment on "loyalty". Most EPL clubs including our own will show very little loyalty to players who they think are surplus to their needs. It's a two-way street, fellas, and, much as it pains us, players also need to look after their needs.

Having said that, I think Pienaar has played well so far this season and been a true professional.

Ste Lewis
26   Posted 07/12/2010 at 21:42:26

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Step forward Magueye Gueye.
James Doran
27   Posted 07/12/2010 at 21:54:10

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On the partnership's current form, I hope that Pienaar and Bainesey play together down the EFC left-flank for a long time to come.
Sean McCarthy
28   Posted 07/12/2010 at 22:13:16

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Ray at #10 says lack of pace is all that stops him being world class. Are you sure? What about can't shoot? Can't score? Piss poor final pass?
Terry Downes
29   Posted 07/12/2010 at 22:20:23

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If he goes, may I suggest we try and get Brunt off West Brom???
Gerry Western
30   Posted 07/12/2010 at 22:05:30

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Pienaar has always given 100%. He's easily been one of our best players in recent seasons and he always shows, regardless of the opposition. Recent press reports claim he's been offered £60k/wk however, with Arteta rumored to be on £75k/wk; if these figures are anywhere close to accurate then I can understand Pienaar digging his heals in.

Arteta can be a match winner, of that there's no doubt; however, he blows hot and cold too often for my liking. We should be offering Pienaar parity with Arteta and, if he rejects it, then good luck to him... but the current disparity between the two is ridiculous given that Pienaar is far more consistent. I'd sell Arteta if need be and hold on to Pienaar.
James Doran
31   Posted 07/12/2010 at 22:23:29

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I would let Victor go when his contract expires and use 'his' wages to increase those offered to Pienaar.
Jay Harris
32   Posted 07/12/2010 at 22:25:51

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Unlike two players who got very lucrative new contracts and continued to play shit since, Pienaar has been a model professional and consistently among our better players.

He was honest enough to say he wanted more money and refused to be beaten down.

He did not seek a big payday and break his contract as Lescott did. I say good luck to him and thanks for the memories.

However, I do think EFC lost out by not getting a fee for him last year and using this season as time for somebody new to bed in.

There again, our leaders think we'll get back into Europe this season.

Watch this space.
Peter Laing
33   Posted 07/12/2010 at 22:55:56

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For anyone questioning the motive of Steven Pienaar or trying to second guess his next move, refer to past experiences, ie, the one and only Thomas Gravesen. Same scenario, expect the same situation to be played out in the coming weeks and months.

Pienaar will be off, nice big signing-on fee, thank you very much. If he was going to sign he would have put pen to paper during the summer, or does he just like losing money every week on a less improved contract?

Sam Hoare
34   Posted 07/12/2010 at 23:57:41

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Pienaar is a top quality footballer no doubt. He has bags of energy, a good footballing brain, excellent touch and he very rarely loses the ball. His combination with Baines has been just about our most effective supply line for two seasons now.

He will be missed.

He is reaching the twilight of his career and is entitled to want trophies and as much money as he thinks he deserves. Sadly, that's not with us. And yet he has not shirked this season but continues to give his absolute all every week.

Farewell and thank you.
Roy Coyne
35   Posted 07/12/2010 at 23:59:35

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First I think he has played well this season, not for one minute could he be put into the Lescott box of selfish bastards, my take is he is worth the same deal as Arteta. The question is: will he be as good without Baines? I doubt it.
Russell Buckley
36   Posted 08/12/2010 at 01:19:55

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This is why Evertonians are so special. What other group of fans would be able to endure this level of suffering.

No bones about it Pienaar may not be in the elite of world football but if you don't recognise that he is consistently among our top performers than you need glasses.

Who gives a shit where we got him from. This is modern football not charity. The days of players sticking to one club and being loyal to the day they die are long gone. He is not a blue he is a South African living in Europe wanting to look back at the end of his career saying he made the best of it.

We should have either sold him for a decent fee and bedded in a replacement or secured this guy with the funds the clubs should have.

Put yourself in his any any other decent players shoes. You only get a short career in football. Everton don't pay huge wages and are a long way off European football of any kind. Would you be tempted by a club on the up like Tottenham?
Ernie Baywood
37   Posted 08/12/2010 at 02:36:24

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I don't know why we're still discussing it... he's going.

The only thing worth talking about is whether a player who has decided to leave should still get into the team. His performances dictate that he should ? there's no way he's let his standards drop. For all his failings he's comfortably our best left sided midfielder by a large margin.

If I'm proven to be wrong on this then it will be a pleasant surprise.
Ernie Baywood
38   Posted 08/12/2010 at 02:40:40

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One thing that might be worth discussing is the talk of Bentley as a replacement. No chance ? he's a nothing footballer. He's Osman with less passing ability but a better cross sometimes. Shouldn't get near our team.
Russell Buckley
39   Posted 08/12/2010 at 03:19:52

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Spot on with post 37, Ernie.

I think Bentely is handy enough but I want better. Do I think we will get it? ...no. All I want is a real winger. Pienaar, Arteta, Vic, Coleman, Bily etc are not wingers. I want an out-and-out winger with pace.
John Barnes
40   Posted 08/12/2010 at 03:39:33

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It's Baines who makes Pienaar look good by running on into space to give him the pass option. It's usually Baines who puts the final ball in. Even Osman looked good with Baines the other week when he played on the left.

Pienaar classically 'flatters to deceive" going forward and is poor defensively. No great loss.

Sega Kana
41   Posted 08/12/2010 at 04:53:28

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IMO, Pienaar has been brilliant for us and I don't want him to go. True professional on the pitch and lots of fire to go on the attack. He's repaid us through his service over the years and if he wants to go... well, all the best.

I don't hold any grudges because he gave his best. I blame the club for not tying him down while hiking Arteta's wages. Pienaar has outperformed Arteta again this season.

Ste Boyle
42   Posted 08/12/2010 at 09:07:26

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Has anybody who recently left us, either under a cloud or sold by the Chairman, ever gone on to better things? Most of the mercenaries haven't, I mean look at Lescott. Naughton is a good example at Spurs, shunned us for them and fook knows where he is now.

Ok, Rooney is playing ok, but as previously stated, you always think he could have been so much better.

Steve Guy
43   Posted 08/12/2010 at 09:09:48

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Some posters sound like statto Allardyce citing not enough assists etc Pienaar is the engine of our team, linking front with back and creating opportunities for Baines to break forward in one of the best double acts I've seen since Morecombe and Wise.

He will be sorely missed by both many fans and his team mates too I suspect (especially Baines!). The real sin here is not selling him back in the Summer when we could have got decent money for him. I've written about that a while ago, so won't go over old ground.
Andrew Clare
44   Posted 08/12/2010 at 09:28:56

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Pienaar is a terrific player and I would be sad to see him leave. >He is a class footballer... full stop!
KPR Williams
45   Posted 08/12/2010 at 10:14:30

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Sell him to who? Surely you need somebody to actually want him to be able to sell him... I seem to remember a statement that although the press had talked up a lot of interest, nobody made any bids.
Stephen Kenny
46   Posted 08/12/2010 at 10:16:48

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It's funny the amount of people on this thread saying he's average, a bit better than Radzinski etc. Then on other threads these same people have said we only play down the left, were one-sided and so on.

Our left side is the one of the most productive in the league, he's fully 50% of that, why lose this over 10 grand a week? Throw in another who is probably not in his correct position and you have a player doing a job for his side and being slated for it a la Heitinga.

Martin Faulkner
47   Posted 08/12/2010 at 10:41:14

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He's not worth 75k a week... Neither is Arteta but therin lies the problem. He's got a good understanding with Pienaar, puts in a shift all the time but, let's face it, my gran has a harder shot than him.

He's going, I hope off to Europe for a fresh challenge and not on the bench at Spurs for a quick money grab, although with some of his off-field history it wouldn't surprise me if he's tied up a deal with Spurs already & is just waiting to see if it's January or June.

Chris Fisher
48   Posted 08/12/2010 at 11:40:56

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Before he makes a decision, he should have a chat with a certain Mr Lescott about if leaving Everton always turns out for the best!!
Colin Malone
49   Posted 08/12/2010 at 11:51:02

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Works very hard, with no end product.
The nearly man.
You'll be sorry, Pienaar.
Anthony Millington
50   Posted 08/12/2010 at 12:11:01

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Don't get me wrong, he's a good player... but he's not as good as he thinks he is and never will be because, time after time, his end product let's him down. That's why he doesn't deserve the £70k a week or whatever he is after. He is a good player but not a world class one, and I don't think he deserves as much as Cahill or Arteta (even though Arteta is on too much).

He is one of the worst players we have for over-playing and it's no wonder we have won 1 game ? yes 1 game all season ? when Pienaar has played. Maybe someone should throw that fact at his agent before he tries to screw every penny out of us for Pienaar's "fantastic performances"!
Anthony Millington
51   Posted 08/12/2010 at 12:20:32

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Exactly Colin, the nearly man.
Norman Merrill
52   Posted 08/12/2010 at 12:14:18

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The Pienaar story rather puzzles me, and with the agent coming out saying that all Steven wants to do is concentrate on his football, just does not add up.

The Spurs interest has been mooted for some time, and Nelaj's comment (16), you are correct about why would they be interested, with Bale & Lennon, but who is to say that Bale is staying with Spurs?

Craig Walker
53   Posted 08/12/2010 at 12:57:21

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I went off him the minute he said "he just wants what's fair".

I don't know a single professional player who is paid a fair wage.

I love football. I hate footballers.
Steve Pugh
54   Posted 08/12/2010 at 14:18:32

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Nelaj, just how is this Moyes's fault. Moyes isn't in charge of the purse strings, he tells BK that he wants to keep Piennaar, BK then controls the negotiations with advice from his financial gurus. Nor does Moyes have anything to do with Piennaar's decision to sign or not, that is down to the one and only Piennaar.

Finally, there has been nothing in Stevie's actions to suggest that there has been a falling out between him and the manager, and I for one put a lot more stock in the player's actions than the agent's words.

Rob Murphy
55   Posted 08/12/2010 at 15:44:44

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You'd think the lad would've learned something from his time rotting away in Germany. Footballers eh, dumb as toast!?!?!
James Stewart
56   Posted 08/12/2010 at 17:41:17

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Good player yes. Worth breaking the bank for? No.

All to often flatters to deceive. Baines is better with his deliveries than Pienaar.

Yes he works hard but so will his replacement. No great loss.
Mark Pierpoint
57   Posted 08/12/2010 at 20:10:16

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Craig (#53) ? that arguement is another discussion point altogether. You can't blame him for wanting the best deal possible. Pienaar will be missed, anyone who thinks he won't is kidding themselves.

At 29 this is his last shot at big European nights and winning trophies. For this reason, I can't see him at Tottenham and certainly not Everton. He will go abroad, Inter or Bayern Munich is my guess.

Pienaar owes us NOTHING. He has come, kept his head down and honoured his contract, playing well along the way, we didn't save him from death row, simply Broussia Dortmund. Cream rises to the top so to speak, and whilst he is no Messi, I am sure that he would have found his way at another club if he had not come to us.
David Edwards
58   Posted 09/12/2010 at 00:01:47

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He owes us nothing? Honouring his contract? Do I contact Pope Benedict to start the beatification process? FFS!

He was a promising prospect who was given the chance to shine at our club. I supported him 100% as he made those initial steps and regularly praised the spark he gave the team during our 'glory' spell of a few years ago. What happens? Typical increase in ego, fully supported by a greedy agent, and we end up with a player cruising to the end of his contract (no windfall for us!) and also cruising from a playing perspective ? ie, good but not great.

I would like him to sit on the bench till the Summer and start figuring out how to deal with him no longer being with us from now! Let's get the youngsters or a January purchase (I can dream!) to fill the gap, and tell the mercenary where to sling his hook. Loyalty ? where are you now! Goodbye Pienaar, you could have been a legend, but now your a footnote!

Karl Masters
59   Posted 09/12/2010 at 23:34:41

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People who say he hasn't been playing well need glasses. Either that or they are just plain stoopid.

If he goes, he goes and if he stays, he stays. Good player, worth decent wages.

I'm more concerned about us picking up some points and moving up that table.
David Chait
60   Posted 10/12/2010 at 00:50:31

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Pienaar is a decent player... performed well for us but not in the same league as Arteta. Forget how Arteta is doing this year... some very true points re Pienaar for us. One player I feel he connected well with was Yakubu. but considering Moyes hates playing him he isn't as effective. It would be completely unfair to pay him the same...

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