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If at first you don't succeed

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I know there'll be a lot of similar posts now highlighting Moyes's failings but I think his worst trait is his stubborness and the fact he doesn't seem willing to change his philosophy or tactics.

There are those that still defend Moyes, stating the fact he has turned it round before so he can do it again. I don't understand this ? what has he done this season that would make you think that? Every week he sends out the same old team and the same old tactics. We should sing "It's the same old team ..."

Everyone who watched the limp cup final display in 2009 saw that Osman is not a right winger and HIbbert is not good enough. Fast-forward to the start of this season and who does Moyes start with on the right side?

Everyone can see Saha is not up to it now. Yakubu was returning to some kind of form and Beckford is the only one who looks like scoring ? yet who does Moyes pick as his starting striker?

Everyone can see things need freshening up, and in some games we might need to change from the rigid 4-5-1, yet does Moyes ever do this?

It's like the more things need to change, the more the stubborn bastard digs his heels in. A friend of mine spoke to Moyes when he was on a scouting mission at Macclesfield before the cup tie. Moyes very disrespectfully said "the scousers were a hard bunch to please." Like we should be pleased and grateful for the crap he serves up.

Nothing's changed and nothing will as long as Moyes is in charge. The analogy I use is it's like watching a fly trying to get out of a shut window. If at first you don't succeed, try doing the same tired old tactic over and over again.
Alan Clarke, Manchester     Posted 12/12/2010 at 11:27:38

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David Holroyd
1   Posted 12/12/2010 at 16:15:41

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When you have a board like ours, and a manager who is short of ideas, it needs a shake up. It's gone stale for Moyes; time to go.
Alec Laurie
2   Posted 12/12/2010 at 16:30:13

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Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Good old Albert Einstein
Al Reddish
3   Posted 12/12/2010 at 16:28:34

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I think the re-occurring theme seems to be the staleness around the club. The lack of investment or new stadium and the broken promises have played like a broken record for many years now and I think the players as well as the supporters have just lost interest.

There seems to be more players wanting to leave than I have known for a long time and I don't think I can blame them. Ok, they are on ridiculous wages but, if I was some of them, I would be thinking "I put in a lot more work than Saha, Heitinga, Yak, Arteta, etc etc, and I am on half their wages." Things need a big shake up and soon.

The £30,000 rejected by Vic is laughable. He should never have been offered it and it is unbelievable he turned it down. Those on the big money are not pulling their weight (Cahill excluded). There is no invention on the pitch. Bily can't get a game and yet seems to know where the net is.

There seems to be a lack of 'exciting' youth coming through, ones that are worth the entrance fee alone. The tactics employed are poor at best. The substitutions are always bang on time and always like for like, unless we are 3 - 0 down and he throws on 3 forwards in the last 2 minutes, usually employing one on the wings.

David Moyes needs to re-invent himself here. He was known for his pioneering approach when he first arrived, but now he is becoming famous for his predictability. Always one up top, same names, week-in, week-out... no experiments or daring formations.

Too many players out of position. Every midfielder we have is predominantly a centre-midfield player (unless you count Coleman who is a right back, or Victor Anigreedy who is a really shit forward).

No width. No belief. No fucker can score a bastard goal. Saha ain't scored a goal in the league since the start of the year and is an automatic pick!!!

Where is Bill now. He seems to have disappeared into a fog of his own blue-tinted fart cloud. No doubt we will see his fat face lighting up our screens if we manage to beat the mighty Scunthorpe in the cup, though I wouldn't put money on that happening either!!!

Well, Bill, you can come out now and tell us how proud you are that you backed your manager to the princely sum of £1m in the summer, obviously from the sales of Ruddy and Jutkiewicz.

The place stinks at the moment and I am not referring to Bill's anal antics... I am a big Moyes fan but this year, the year when the red shite are living up to their billing, I just think, "Fuck it! Fuck the fucking lot of it you, fucking clowns."

Rant over.

Mike Allison
4   Posted 12/12/2010 at 16:53:21

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Totally agree about Yakubu in particular. He hadn't started scoring but he'd just started looking fit and slightly more confident again and he's dropped for Saha, who's been worse than useless all season.

Yesterday's failure to make attacking substitutions gives the impression that Moyes has lost his appetite, like he simply doesn't care any more. I've defended Moyes for years, and I'll still say I've been right to most of, if not all of, the time... but this current run of form (particularly at home) is bad enough to make it hard to defend him.

But what's worse than anything is the point you highlight that he doesn't seem to want to try to do anything about it at all. Yesterday, Yakubu stayed on the bench, Gueye has barely made an appearance all season, and Bilyaletdinov, who's capable of pulling a great goal from nowhere, didn't come on either.

I still can't quite get over the fact that we only made two substitutions in a home game we dominated but never took the lead in. Even the set pieces were absolutely amateur, with all the players simply running in a straight line for the same ball, with no staggering or criss-crossing or anything remotely thoughtful going on.

Having said all that, was Beckford onside? First glance seemed offside, the only replay I saw on the feed seemed onside and MotD amazingly (although perhaps not, given the standard of coverage we've come to expect) didn't show it.

Dave Richman
5   Posted 12/12/2010 at 18:05:44

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"Exactly! And that is what is so brilliant about our plan! It will catch the watchful Hun totally off guard! Doing precisely what we've done eighteen times before is exactly the last thing they'll expect us to do this time!"

General Sir Antony Cecil Hogmanay Melchett.
Paul Olsen
6   Posted 12/12/2010 at 19:17:03

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Although I agree with most of the sour stuff that we are coming up with now, there is one thing i´d like to point out.

Everyone is now calling it insanity awarding Arteta with a £75k p/w wage buff. I can´t recall the same people saying the same thing back when he signed. Had he left being offered a lower deal, it still would have come back on the board and manager. A lose/lose situation for Moyes there.

Let´s face it, we all thought Arteta was worth it on the back of some amazing performances. The fact that he is now a whole other player was not what anyone saw coming.

Apart from that, I say the original poster nails it although he is not really offering any groundbreaking new insight. Everyone with half a mind can see Moyes´s poor tactics and stubborn mindset.
Charles King
7   Posted 12/12/2010 at 19:39:43

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Dave @ 5

Thumbs up mate. Many a true word said in jest.
Michael Upton
8   Posted 12/12/2010 at 20:43:09

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Were you lot watching a different game?
19 goal attempts vs 3, Al Habsi playing out of his skin, Cahill hitting the post, Baines all over the left wing, need I go on?

That could easily have been 3 or 4-0, despite the lack of sharpness from Saha.

Sure I wanted Beckford to start after Chelsea but it's not like we didn't make any chances - it was hardly a typical, stale 0-0.

Off the pitch, investment is needed and we badly need a firing centre forward but yesterday's performance was surely hardly the flat experience it's best made out to have been?

I would be more worried if we weren't making chances but I thought Rodwell, Coleman and Fellaini in particular showed promise. Keep playing like that and the goals will come.

Now go on and shoot me down...
Paul Olsen
9   Posted 12/12/2010 at 21:14:07

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Ok Michael.

Indeed it could have been 3 or 4, in fact it should have been. But it wasn´t and that´s the story of this season. At one point it stops being bad luck. That point has been passed by some length.

Saha started, he made one goal attempt in 60 minutes in a game we dominated possesionwise. Very poor decision to play him in the first place.

Wigan were really poor and any team with a slight potency to their attacking play would indeed have scored at least 4. We didn´t score one, where does that leave us?
Barry Thompson
10   Posted 12/12/2010 at 21:50:00

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In the shit Paul.
Alan Clarke
11   Posted 12/12/2010 at 21:47:40

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Mr Upton, have you played football? If you create 12 chances in a game and you give the keeper a chance with every shot then you've taken too long to get your shot off.

I've played up front and scored goals where the keeper had no chance before I'd even kicked it. I've seen lots of teams score goals where the keeper had no chance. There is something up at everton if we've only won 3 games this season. Moyes' stubborness is one of the main reasons we're in such a bad position.
Tom Bowers
12   Posted 12/12/2010 at 22:54:11

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It seems we keep finding excuses for the players and the manager but the bottom line is we are in a critical position approaching Xmas. Drawn games are no good and certainly not at home.

Yes, we play decent football until the final third... but so does every other team. We lack class finishers at a consistent level and only Cahill with his head gives us hope. Saha is past his best as it also appears Yak is too as Moyes won't play him.

Forget Anichebe, Vaughan and Beckford ? they will only play bit parts. Pienaar seems to have his mind elsewhere, as does Arteta. Moyes doesn't have the answers.

Yes, this seems negative commentary but, after hoping for an improved season this year by getting over all the injuries from last season, we have been even worse so far this season, with no signs we are going to break out of the slump ? and by that I mean winning games at least at home.

If there are no significant moves come January 1st, then expect a relegation battle because a lot of poorer teams from last season are getting better results than Everton this season.

Paul Henshaw
13   Posted 12/12/2010 at 23:21:55

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http://www.ehow.com/how_4921072_overcome-stubbornness.html
David Edwards
14   Posted 13/12/2010 at 00:12:56

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Moyes says he's ready for another 400 games!!!! Are we???? LOL (Blue Square here we come!)
Eric Myles
15   Posted 13/12/2010 at 01:25:05

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Paul (#6) yes, you're right, nobody begrudged Arteta his £75k when he signed up again... but, now that he doesn't seem worth it, it just highlights Moyes stubborness over Pienaar's contract as now Pienaar looks worth it.
Eric Myles
16   Posted 13/12/2010 at 02:00:34

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Anyway, I reckon there'll be a change against City...

Now Osman is fit again, he can slip seamlessly back into his old position, and Moyes will drop Coleman.

Russell Buckley
17   Posted 13/12/2010 at 02:51:16

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This post and many others just shows the frustration. How can we as fans see some of these things as clear of day and Moyes seems oblivous.

Sure, managers have their favourites and he can see them train everyday but, at the end of the day, it comes down to how the team plays on match day ? and we see just as much of that as he does.

We all know the issues with form, position etc but one thing above nearly all else is pissing me off.

I want to see Moyes make his substitutions in a proactive way at least occasionally. Over his career, he makes substitutions either to react to something the other manager has done or in a way that everyone expects (e.g withouth fail waiting until 70 or 80 mins on the dot).

How many times have we gone a goal down in the past and Moyes asks a player to warm up only to stand there pondering as the match slips away.
Garry Corgan
18   Posted 13/12/2010 at 04:04:44

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The whole club reeks of staleness for me. Everything about the board, the management, the playing staff, the stadium, the culture ... something has to give.

The rot has set in and fingers can be pointed in all directions, if blame is to be apportioned for our current predicament.

One of the most trouble stats I've come across is simply that in the past three calendar years (since 1st Jan 2008) we have spent £35m on transfer fees and recouped over £40m. There has been negative investment in the playing staff over the past few years, yet we wonder why we are where we are.

Where is the money from merchandising, match day tickets, sponsorship, TV rights and prizes going? Since we have a small playing staff on a wage budget as tight as a ducks arse, it surely can't all be going on players' salaries?

Something is rotten and fetid at Goodison and I think it's about time we starting asking what it is.

Russell Buckley
19   Posted 13/12/2010 at 04:31:17

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Good post, Garry, we all know that Everton have crap funding but when you spell it out, showing the negative investment in playing staff, it's clear as day that this club is being loved to death by Kenwright.

Where has all the money gone? Clubs get more TV money per year, we have new sponsorship deals, services are being outsourced... and yet we are still completely skint.

I don't give a shit if he thinks he is an Everton fan. Any true fan wouldn't slowly let the club wither on the vine. This is the Premier League... sure as fans we hang on to tradition but, at the end of the day, success is so closely linked to money now that we will without a doubt eventually take the drop if this continues.

Richard Dodd
20   Posted 13/12/2010 at 08:27:42

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The problem is with people`s unreal expectations. I`ve long argued that around 8th spot is a decent enough finish ? indeed, anywhere in the top half is more than acceptable. Wake up, will you ? we ain`t never gonna win the Prem and qualification for Europe brings it`s own problems. Am I easy to please? ? you bet ? but I ENJOY my Everton!
Marc Williams
21   Posted 13/12/2010 at 09:37:14

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Alan Clarke ? Loved your quip about the players running out to "It's the same old team" ? very funny.

Dave Richman (#5) Like your Blackadder Goes Forth analogy. You should check out the film "Little Big Man" with Dustin Hoffman if you enjoy this sort of humour about Military authority. There's a great line where Custer's officers are trying to talk him out of attcking at Little Big Horn. Defending his deceision to attack in the same old way he says "Ah but this time I intend to attack them without mercy", the major retorts "General, that's no surprise" ? to which Custer says, "Nonsense, nothing is more surprising than the attack without mercy."

The sad thing is, I can see Moyes & Round expounding this kind of warped phychology.

Perhaps we'll defend against Man Shitty (can't see us attacking)... without mercy!

Alan Clarke
22   Posted 13/12/2010 at 10:23:04

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Doddy, we're not in 8th and we're not in the top half so what's your point?
Laurie Hartley
23   Posted 13/12/2010 at 09:56:06

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Richard ? the problem is we are currently 15th in the table and things don't look like they are going to improve any time soon. We've played 9 games at home and scored 10 goals ? 3 of them against United and 2 of them 3 in extra time. So we are really only averaging LESS THAN 1 goal a game at home.

On the other hand, we have conceded 12 goals in 9 games ? 3 of them against United. So we are really conceding on average 1 goal a game at home.

I believe that home ground advantage still applies, even in this day and age, therefore take a chance ? play 2 strikers at home!

By the way, Alan Clarke @11 ? you are not the Alan Clarke that played for Leeds in the 60s are you? If so, do you fancy a coaching position at Everton?

Michael Evans
24   Posted 13/12/2010 at 11:31:11

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Richard@20 - I genuinely admire the way you stick to your views/opinions irrespective of the ridicule etc that you sometimes subjected to.

However, whilst you personally may "ENJOY my Everton" there are many of us who find the current mediocrity far from enjoyable.

James Greem
25   Posted 13/12/2010 at 13:04:23

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Interesting reading..

http://www.chesterchronicle.co.uk/chester-sport/everton-fc-news/2010/12/13/everton-fc-manager-david-moyes-sticking-by-misfiring-striker-louis-saha-59067-27814624/

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