Courtesy of soccerbase, I checked to see the last time we had won so few games by this point of the season.
It was the 1997-98 season; like this season, we had only won 3 games by this date. Strangely, one of our only 3 wins was also 2-0 against Liverpool. The others were against the mighty Barnsley and WHU.
We won our 4th game on 20 December ? against Leicester ? so maybe there is a good omen for the City match.
This was the season where we drew 1-1 against Coventry in our last match to send Bolton down. Our saviour was Gareth Farrelly, in what was probably the only thing he did for us. Such was my state of hysteria in watching that match, with my father RIP, that I actually forgot who we were playing and thought we playing Bolton.
In terms of who to buy to save us, what about Luciano Becchio from Leeds; at least Beckford will be familiar with him.
Jonathan Tasker, Posted 13/12/2010 at 09:25:01
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
1 Posted 13/12/2010 at 15:08:09
We were woeful - heavy home defeats to Sheff Wed (3-1) Villa (4-1) and a then bottom-of-the-table Spurs (2-0) were particular lowlights, as well as being hammered 4-1 by Cov in the league cup and 4-0 by a title winning Arsenal side (the sight of Tony Adams marching through the centre of our defence to score the 4th still makes me cringe).
We were very,very lucky top stay up that year and if I'm honest we probably deserved to go down instead of a Bolton side who had put up a decent fight of things towards the end of the season.
The fact we are in a similar positon now realy puts this season into grim perspective
2 Posted 13/12/2010 at 15:16:59
The last time I looked at the league table our best squad ever seems to be in nothing but that.
3 Posted 13/12/2010 at 15:44:56
4 Posted 13/12/2010 at 15:47:03
5 Posted 13/12/2010 at 15:57:14
6 Posted 13/12/2010 at 16:55:19
The Jist was..
"Everton supporters - you know fuck all, shut the fuck up, Moyes is great..er even though Everton can't score, but..um..they COULD score soon. Not only that, they COULD have been top of the League if they'd won loads of games and if they WERE top...well um..THEN you'd feel daft complaining, so keep it shut ingrates".
Uninformed and total gibberish but the NOTW is not really known for it's insight.
7 Posted 13/12/2010 at 17:06:09
8 Posted 13/12/2010 at 17:29:02
I do now........just. Keep the faith lads, either Moyes will change SOMETHING or we might start to get that mythical "rub of the green"! Come on Blues!!
9 Posted 13/12/2010 at 17:47:40
Here is the table after 17 games back then:
Club P W D L GF GA GD Pts
Manchester United 17 11 4 2 43 13 30 37
Chelsea 17 11 1 5 41 18 23 34
Blackburn Rovers 17 9 6 2 30 18 12 33
Arsenal 17 8 6 3 31 18 13 30
Leeds United 17 9 3 5 26 19 7 30
Leicester City 17 7 6 4 22 15 7 27
Derby County 16 8 2 6 30 24 6 26
Liverpool 16 7 4 5 27 17 10 25
Newcastle United 15 7 3 5 18 19 -1 24
Wimbledon 17 6 4 7 19 21 -2 22
West Ham United 17 7 1 9 24 28 -4 22
Aston Villa 17 6 3 8 19 23 -4 21
Sheffield Wednesday 17 6 3 8 30 38 -8 21
Crystal Palace 17 5 5 7 17 22 -5 20
Bolton Wanderers 17 4 7 6 13 24 -11 19
Coventry City 17 3 8 6 13 24 -11 17
Southampton 17 5 1 11 20 27 -7 16
Tottenham Hotspur 17 4 4 9 14 28 -14 16
Everton 17 3 4 10 16 27 -11 13
Barnsley 17 4 1 12 15 45 -30 13
10 Posted 13/12/2010 at 19:15:03
11 Posted 13/12/2010 at 19:06:39
12 Posted 13/12/2010 at 19:48:37
13 Posted 13/12/2010 at 19:43:34
10/11 Pld 17 - Pos. 15 - Pts 18 (GD -2) - ?
09/10 Pld 17 - Pos. 15 - Pts 18 (GD -8) - Finished 8th.
08/09 Pld 17 - Pos. 7 - Pts 25 - Finished 5th.
07/08 Pld 17 - Pos. 6 - Pts 30 - Finished 5th.
06/07 Pld 17 - Pos. 10 - Pts 24 - Finished 6th.
05/06 Pld 17 - Pos. 16 - Pts 17 - Finished 11th.
04/05 Pld 17 - Pos. 2 - Pts 36 - Finished 4th.
03/04 Pld 17 - Pos. 11 - Pts 20 - Finished 17th.
02/03 Pld 17 - Pos. 5 - Pts 29 - Finished 7th.
Interesting to note that we are in the exact same position and have the exact same points tally as we had at the same time last season, albeit with a '6' better goal difference.
On the negative side of things, this time last season, we were 'FOR 35, AGAINST 46', whereas this season at this stage we are 'FOR 18, AGAINST 20'.
So our defence is much better, but we've only scored half as many goals.
Also, during the season 2005/2006, acknowledged by many as probably the worst start to a season during Moyes' near 9 years in charge, we had less points after 17 games than we have now, and went on to finish 11th. Two seasons before that, we had 3 more points at that same stage, but went on to finish 17th.
Clearly, we all know we have been here before, and to panic too much at this stage is folly. Yes, things aren't great, and yes, things need to change, but that's what the January transfer window is there for.
14 Posted 13/12/2010 at 20:34:46
This season Liverpool have been shite... the bitter irony ? we have to be worse. Kenwright must be sitting their thinking 'oh well, at least the Shite are awful too, that will keep the natives at Everton a little less angry'.
This season has been the straw that broke the camel's back, fans are turning away in droves and the atmosphere at GP is as bad as the final days of the Smith tenure. We are seriously listing and, with no money available, it looks highly likely that our fortunes are unlikely to improve.
15 Posted 13/12/2010 at 20:34:44
The lowlight for me was around this time of year vs a not very good Wimbledon that ended 0-0, but was light years away from the 0-0 we witnessed on Saturday (and I'll get it in before someone else, you still get only get a point), a freezing day and one of the worst matches I've ever seen; think Sunday league with a gang of lads straight from a piss up and even that wouldn't do justice to it.
That year we were regularly out fought out thought and out played, however apart from the Newcastle game I haven't seen that this season, just chance after chance going begging. The problem is glaringly obvious, but have we got the money to buy ourway back to winning ways? not looking good
16 Posted 13/12/2010 at 22:43:18
17 Posted 13/12/2010 at 23:24:46
18 Posted 14/12/2010 at 00:28:40
So that doesn't sound like we got battered, in fact watching the extended highlights, there first attack resulted in a corner which they scored from, then they scored a peach of a free kick. I had Sky sports news on and at 2-1 they kept saying it was all Everton.
So Gavin my point is that I've seen Everton teams that have been hammered, to the point that if it was a boxing match the ref would stop the contest, and the 97-98 was on the end of quite a few hidings, and I haven't seen that this season, maybe Monday will be different.
Finally don't let scorelines fool you, I've seen us draw or be beaten 1-0 and we've been thrashed out of sight and vice versa, it is a hard time to be an Evertonian and sometimes you get get over pessimistic, but then again there's a lot to be pessimistic about.
19 Posted 14/12/2010 at 00:40:35
20 Posted 14/12/2010 at 00:48:57
21 Posted 14/12/2010 at 00:55:48
Take him for a piss up?
22 Posted 14/12/2010 at 01:04:09
23 Posted 14/12/2010 at 06:36:32
How that side didn't go down I don't know. We were shocking.
24 Posted 14/12/2010 at 07:17:25
25 Posted 14/12/2010 at 08:48:02
What is really cracking me up is his treatment of certain players, yet again he had a dig at Beckford last week despite grabbing the equaliser he should have won the game by not passing to Rodwell and it`s similar with his sly digs he has at Coleman, he was not too complimentary that he won our player of the month award and yet last night again he is full of backing for Saha because he is working hard in training, so fucking what Davey, he certainly is not come match day.
The man is a stubborn fool and It appears he cannot take criticism because the national press tell him he is better than what most match going blues think he is.
26 Posted 14/12/2010 at 09:27:00
Look like winning? We might if we could get one of those lazy ingrate strikers to score week in out..right now I think we're going to be lucky to stay up the way things are going.
Simple truth..don't score enough goals - down you go end of
27 Posted 14/12/2010 at 09:32:41
28 Posted 14/12/2010 at 09:33:25
29 Posted 14/12/2010 at 09:35:28
We now play with the ball far too much instead of getting it forward every opportunity.
This season is a disgrace, and regardless what the stats say..quite irrelevant at the end of the day.. If you don't score enough goals your going down..christ half the time we can barely manage a draw
30 Posted 14/12/2010 at 09:39:10
Yes, we should be panicking.
31 Posted 14/12/2010 at 10:25:41
I think we used all our luck up for the next 20 years in that game.
32 Posted 14/12/2010 at 13:17:05
As Simon Jenkins points out we are in exactly the same position as we were this time last year and ended up 8th ? ?Whoopy fucking do? I can already hear you screaming and, no I am not ecstatic about our position and having endured the Wolves, Newcastle and the Wigan games this season at Goodison, the last one a twenty four hour round trip including two four hour boat trips (I take my hat off to other Manx blues who travel far more often than I do) I am as depressed as the next blue but the knee jerk reaction (or even long term campaign) to poor results (not necessarily poor performances ? there is a difference) of ?Moysey out?? ?sell all our players? ? ?get someone (who exactly?) in? ? etc etc just makes me even more depressed.
I am a Moyes supporter ? he sometimes confuses me with his decisions ? eg why keep on playing Saha, but he has explained this and whilst I would not have done so I respect his decision ? we don?t know what happens in training and so whilst all the anti-Moyes laugh at his justification it maybe that Beckford can?t hit a barn door (he has history) or never gets on side (he has history) whilst Louie is banging them in left right and centre - who would you then go for? ? I like Beckford and the Yak but am willing to let Moyes be the judge because as he has explained he sees them every day.
I get confused with the all the negativity that I keep reading on TW about how bad we are and whose fault it is and whilst I am not against constructive criticism or reasoned arguments the vast majority of contributors go out of their way to justify that we are shit and give no allowance for luck, rub of the green or whatever you want to call it nor give any credit for past deeds and set off on grand generalisations such as Moyes is dull negative etc we play negative football etc ? whilst the evidence in the form of proper stats just does not back this up. Most of what I read on TW is the sort of shit that I would write about the Redshite if I ever bothered to read and write into their equivalent of TW ? why do we do it to ourselves?
33 Posted 14/12/2010 at 15:06:24
Why don't you read the thread again as you seem to have strayed somewhat from the point: " the last time we had won so few games by this point of the season". That's 3 games won. And your still just confused occasionally by the manager???
I'd respond to this 'negativity on TW' shite you are spouting but I lost any respect for your contribution when I got to the end and read such a twatish line about redshites. That tells me all I need to know about you.
34 Posted 14/12/2010 at 15:43:27
35 Posted 14/12/2010 at 17:51:50
If the thread was all about the last time we had only won three games by this point of the season, then why not title it along those lines ? as you and I have both proved overall we are not as bad this season as we were in ?97.
With regard to my confusion as to the negativity on this site, my point is that I do not understand why there is no leeway given to Moyes or Kenwright or most of the players. When you love someone or something you normally afford them much more leeway than someone or something you are not so keen on ? you make excuses for their shortcomings or faults the same short comings or faults that you rip the back out of the opposition for ? for example the redshite.
Take the Wigan game for example and substitute us with the redshite ? my Dad and quite a few of my mates are redshite fans so our post match ?friendly banter? would be along lines of:
Me: ?You were shite as usual on Saturday I see? can?t even beat the Pie-eaters.. not surprised with that useless twat up front and Mr ?shit brained negativity? as a manager who doesn?t understand that one up front went out with the ark... blah blah?.
RedShiteMate: ?Hold on mate we had a perfectly good goal disallowed for offside?.?
Me: ?Don?t give me that shite ? always moaning about bad luck ? it?s all down to Mr shit-brained negativity ? you should get rid of him mate he?s done nothing for you only taking you down ? you should try to get Martinez ? up and coming manager forward thinking blah blah blah?
RSM: ?Yeah that Martinez bloke fucking brilliant ? progressive manager - that would be the same one who instructed his goal keeper to start the time wasting on goal kicks from the start of the game not the last 10 mins as is the norm for teams such as Wigan, Wolves etc hanging on for draw? the same forward thinking manager who told them not to engage in anything that might remotely resemble a free flowing game of football but to have as many people behind ball as poss ? yeah what a joy to watch .. they should have had points deducted for their unwillingness to engage in a game of football?
Me: ?Come on - this is your year ? best squad ever - you are going to be a top 4 team aren?t you? ? you lot should be able break down a bunch of cloggers like Wigan ? Martinez reckons they finished the game stronger than you and he is disappointed that they did not win it in the end ? but for a super save from your clown keeper ??
RSM: ?As I said class bloke Martinez full of sound logic ? our keeper has fuck all to do all day but still manages to pull off great save ? a save he should not have had to make as one of our midfielders had been fouled in the build up right in front of ref ? and anyway if we follow Martinez? logic we would have won 6-2 because from my reckoning they had two chances we had six so if all chances had gone in etc etc ??
Me: ?Whatever? you?re not going win fuck all with Mr shit brained negativity in charge he always sets you up not to lose ? look at last weeks game at Chelsea ? first half shite beacuse of the way he sets them up to defend your precious point ??
RSM: ?Yeah that will be the same negative set up that produces a good shot on target within the first 30 secs from the useless twat up front?.?
Michael I don?t doubt your, or any of the other contributors to TW, love for Everton but you must see, that from my point of view, I feel like I don?t need to find a red shite mate to have my post match ?friendly banter? with I just need to come on to TW and all the things I would expect them to say are already posted the thing is though they are posted by fellow blues. There are always two sides to any discussion and whilst you obviously feel I am deluded in my blind faith in Moyes I am trying to balance out the discussion or do you not want anything other than blind faith in your own view?
36 Posted 15/12/2010 at 20:55:25
I think it was Jonathan's title, not mine. Accurate if "this bad" is defined as number of wins by this stage of the season... which is what he said. So no reason for me to change the title.
"Leeway"...? Lost me there... either we describe what we see... or what? It's not a question of leeway. If you disagree with someone's analysis, fine, go right ahead. But for you to expect them to disagree with themselves to provide the "leeway" you want to see... No. Just respect the fact that that is their analysis based on their assessment of what they have seen. That's what we are about here: Evertonians providing their analysis for other Evertonians to consider.
Which brings me to all this redshite crap... There aren't many things I hate in the world... but kopite twats are a big chunk of the list. I have absolutely no time for them and would not even engage them... "Banter" ? not interested in the slightest. Sorry.
This website is for Evertonians discussing Everton. Any other fans appear and they get blocked... especially redshite twats... and we've had a few. They are simply worthless in my book. The last thing I would want to do is set up this website to cater for discussing Everton issues with redshites... yet that seems to be where you're coming from on this issue of "negativity".
To suggest that the critical analysis provided here by fellow Evertonians is even remotely comparable with the incessant garbage spouted by your redshite chums is simply unconscionable, and demonstrates a serious misunderstanding on your part in terms of what you are reading.
Perhaps you're looking for us to provide a rallying point for you to fuel up on your defence of all things Everton against allcomers from the dark side... well, I can see little if anything we post or discuss is going to help you there. You're on your own with your loveable redshite chums.
If you want me to somehow change the website to cater more for your needs in such an endless and ultimately futile exchange with your redshite pals... well, I hope you can see that ain't gonna happen.
As the words of the song go: "We don't care what the redshite say, what the hell do we care?" ? I think you need to take that to heart, Jeff. We're concerned about Everton; we don't care what any redshites would say.
Add Your Comments
In order to post a comment to the MailBag, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.
Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and MailBag submissions across the site.