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Gueye and Silva

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How are these chaps getting on?

Gueye in particular was tipped by Moyes as being a secret weapon but I haven't heard a dicky bird about him sice Brentford.

Silva is about the only forward we haven't given a go.


Craig Taylor, Leicester     Posted 14/12/2010 at 08:51:56

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James Cadwaladr
1   Posted 14/12/2010 at 15:31:33

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Craig, Gueye tipped himself as the secret weapon I think, not Moyes. I think Moyes has been sold a couple of duffers by agents and doubt we'll see them.
Michael Kenrick
2   Posted 14/12/2010 at 15:33:44

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James, I think Gueye was quoting what Moyes had told him or said about him.

And how, in the modern game, can a manger be sold a couple of duffers? I can't contemplate the notion you imply ? that the manager does not at least see new players in action a few times minimum before they sign ? especially given the number of non-Everton games Moyes is said to watch every week.

But then again, if the manager puts more weight on the amount of 'hard work' a player gets through in training rather than how he performs in matches... well I guess all bets are off.

Mike Hughes
3   Posted 14/12/2010 at 15:30:35

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Absolutely no idea but I guess there will be two schools of thought:

1. They can't be doing too well if they are strikers at EFC who can't break into the team given our appalling goal-scoring record.

2. It's indicative of DM's lack of risk-taking in giving them a try.

Can't understand it myself - especially the Gueye character - surely worth a go. However, if the Yak or Beckford are behind Saha then I'm afraid all logic goes down the pan.
Craig Taylor
4   Posted 14/12/2010 at 16:20:21

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Sold a couple of duffers??? Moyes insists on watching everyone himself.
Trevor Lynes
5   Posted 14/12/2010 at 16:28:09

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We DO NOT have any younger player at the club who is really pushing for a first team place... look at the results of the games they take part in for the reserves.
Shaun Brennan
6   Posted 14/12/2010 at 16:36:56

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When Kenwright saw the video clips of the players in question... All we could hear was a "wow".
James Cadwaladr
7   Posted 14/12/2010 at 17:12:39

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Michael, I spot some sarcasm in your post but, if not, I would have agreed with you in the past; however, it struck me last summer that we are in such a bad position to compete with even the likes of Wigan in the transfer market and therefore struggling to attract any talent.

That in itself must lead to agents approaching the club to sell the next wonderkid. And we also all know that many managers have been taken in by it. Why not Moyes? Especially given his desperation to get numbers in.

I am not saying he hadn't seen all the players but seriously, were there no other youngsters around that could have made a more immediate impression on the squad for about the same cost? I believe that, if the scouting network across Europe was good enough, we would have been able to get a couple of youngsters with a chance of breaking through this season.

Craig @ 4, are you sure about that? How often did he have Ibrahim Saeed, Rodrigo and perhaps even Bily scouted. I would be happy to wager that these were pushed to him by agents. I didn't include Li Tie or Li Wie Feng in that as that was undoubtedly down to the Kejian deal.

Anyone that thinks that agents don't push players into clubs is niave, especially when a club is in the financial situation Everton is in.

SAF bought Bebe for how much without seeing him play?
Michael Kenrick
8   Posted 14/12/2010 at 17:26:34

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James, sarcasm aside (ME?!?!?) it sounds like another poor excuse for bad management... Bad Moyes management.

It's like saying "Well, it's not actually Moyes's fault that he ends up with a number of duffers each season... he has these up-&-coming wonderkids pushed his way by unscrupulous agents and is powerless to stop the paperwork going through lickety split." (... Okay, I was slipping back into sarcasm at the end there... but hopefully you will get the point.)

The whole concept is to me utterly preposterous and, if even true in one single case (Rodrigo? Krøldrup?? Van der Meyde???), my widely recognized and immense esteem for our wonderful manager would plumb new and potentially unfathomable depths. (Okay, now that last bit ? definitely sarcasm ? So bite me!)

Michael Kenrick
9   Posted 14/12/2010 at 17:35:39

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"Anyone that thinks that agents don't push players into clubs is niave, especially when a club is in the financial situation Everton is in."

Jaysus, I just read that again and realized the problem is my naivety... or is it?

Er, no, I don't think so. Although you have perhaps come up with the absolute best apologist excuse for the Kenwright/Moyes Axis and its abject failure to produce the goods on the field this season ? despite Moyes having "the best squad of players at Everton since the 80s".

James... what planet are you on???
Tony J Williams
10   Posted 14/12/2010 at 17:40:35

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Dunno, it's a secret.
James Cadwaladr
11   Posted 14/12/2010 at 17:35:34

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Michael, I couldn't agree more with everything you say. I'm not trying to say it isn't Moyes's fault in the slightest.

All I'm saying is that when you are in Everton's situation, agents take advantage.

This season for example, I would have much rather signed Petrov on a free than Gueye but we missed out. Agents are very clever and will definitely know Moyes's buying of youth policy and I believe, taken advantage.

You won't hear me defending this seasons signings and I can put my two penneth worth on what we should do with tactics and team selections (believe me I have my outspoken thoughts) but at the end of the day, I, like many of us don't know what goes on ? at best we can try and take educated guesses based on the information we are privvy to and opinion.
James Cadwaladr
12   Posted 14/12/2010 at 17:45:44

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Michael @ 9. You are misreading what I am trying to say. My position on this is that I am very disappointed with Moyes this preseason and season, both with tactics and transfers, to the extent that this is the first time that I've ever said I am verging on wanting him out.

What I'm saying is that he has failed in the market, hasn't been able to get his scouted targets, and I think he has been duped by a couple of agents, which has failed us.

I'm not excusing, I'm saying it's not acceptable.
Michael Kenrick
13   Posted 14/12/2010 at 18:01:42

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James, let's back up. Moyes has a history of bringing in younger players and trying to develop them into something. Without doing the research, my sense is that most turn out to be failures, and they end up leaving (Exception: Coleman). To excuse that as bad scouting and/or pushy agents just seems ridiculous to me considering what we DO know about Moyes ? his diligence, his research, his match-going, his personal scouting of these players.

The idea that he would bring in any old Johnny Sixpence on the say-so of an agent (with the possible exception of his brother!), without being 100% convinced just goes against everything we do know about Moyes the man.

Wouldn't you agree?
Jimmy Hacking
14   Posted 14/12/2010 at 22:01:45

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Problem is Michael, his track record can only be described as poor. The only half decent kid he's ever signed in 9 years was Gosling.

In my opinion, there is no point in signing ANY player and then not giving them a try. Unless maybe they are 16 or 17. I want to see these lads in action, even if it's just the odd five minutes, what harm can it do?
Chad Schofield
15   Posted 14/12/2010 at 23:17:39

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I don't understand why Gueye hasn't been used really... pacey and can cross (from the admittedly little I've seen of him). But then as well documented, Moyes labours on changing any of his system - and it takes several games before there's even an acknowledgement of a problem (including Saha) which only buys him more time to persist. It so often seem that it's only after everyone'd been banging their heads against the obstructed view posts that Moyes will do something. Admittedly this season he's been a bit more daring - but going gung-ho 70th min 4-3-3 only seemed to be done in order so he could turn round and show the world it wouldn't work at Everton. Baxter got dropped pretty swiftly last season after a poor first half against West Brom (if I remember rightly - but 08-09 results not showing), only to be offered the tiniest of cameos on occasion after.

As for not getting Petrov, think wages and signing on fee would have been too high.
Ben Hunt
16   Posted 15/12/2010 at 00:48:14

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I've watched Gueye in the reserves a few times; people seem to have this perception that he's pacey and full of trickery... well, he's not. He reminds me of Bily in many ways in that he seems to have a decent left foot, can spot a pass and even pick a cross at times, but like Bily his speed of thought doesn't quite match and often gets the ball nipped off his toe.

Obviously he's a kid and it'll take time to adjust, but I would suggest that is the reason why we got him for circa £1M rather than Europe's elite clambering after him making his fee a lot more.

Unfortunately, we know DM isn't a fan of throwing kids in ? just look at Coleman, he was deserving of a run well before the last few weeks.

My opinion would be to send Gueye out on loan for a few months, toughen him up a bit, and give him some much needed game time.

Russell Buckley
17   Posted 15/12/2010 at 02:57:29

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Moyes has said in the past the he personally watches every player he signs.

I watched both train and play or their summer tour down under. Silva looked like he needed plenty of work but was a good size.



Gueye looked very promising, was hoping to see him a bit this year

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