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And now for some good news?

Comments (52)

I have heard from my father's aunty's dog that Donovan is definitely coming in January.

If true, what are our expectations, given that:

1. Pienaar may be off.

2. We are currently heading into a depression.

3. No-one can score goals except Tiger Tim and he'll be off.

4. Any other deals are likely to be loans too.

Will it be enough to give us a lift or will he get dragged into the funereal atmosphere that is currently being a Blue?
Jay Harris, Liverpool     Posted 14/12/2010 at 22:54:26

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Andy Crooks
1   Posted 15/12/2010 at 08:20:38

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Jay, it's going to take more than Donovan. Moyes needs to land a shock loan signing that wiill lift the entire club.
Dave Lynch
2   Posted 15/12/2010 at 09:00:28

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I have said it many times before, but will say it again one last time.

We have the players !
The team is stale because of Moyes tactics, or lack of them.

Look through the squad, we have more than enough to compete with the teams above us.
Dennis Stevens
3   Posted 15/12/2010 at 09:48:58

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Hear! Hear! Dave, you're quite right. The very thing that made Moyes so effective now seems to be his biggest failing. When we had a squad of more limited players Moyes was able to forge them into an effective unit greater than the sum of it's parts, but now that he has improved the quality of players, with the clear intention of playing better & competing at a higher level, Moyes no longer seems able to perform this trick - in fact the performances are well below the level we all know they are capable of. Moyes has himself declared this the best squad he has had & I think he's right in that assessment, however, if he & his coaching team cannot find a way to turn things 'round, & quickly, then I can only see one solution. The Board won't sack themselves, no matter how much we might wish them to, but they will eventually have to replace Moyes if this desperate state of affairs continues.
Laurie Hartley
4   Posted 15/12/2010 at 09:55:38

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With Tim going to the Asia cup this could be the shock we need.

Coleman, Heitinga, Distin, Baines
Donovan, Arteta, Fellaini, Piennar
Bilyaletdinov, Yakubu.

And here is a puzzle for you Jay - out of the players named above who is the most likely to score from outside the box?
Dick Fearon
5   Posted 15/12/2010 at 10:20:38

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Dave #2, I reckon you are dead right.
Tony Waring
6   Posted 15/12/2010 at 10:50:13

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Precisely. We have virtually the same squad now that performed so well for the latter part of last season. If they did it then they can do it now. It's a question of confidence in front of goal and a few lucky breaks. L
Replying to Laurie #4 I guess you mean Bilyaletdinov and I agree.
Tony J Williams
7   Posted 15/12/2010 at 11:15:06

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Moyes tactics are the same as the ones where he got us into 4th and into Europe 4 times. How is that lack of tactics?

Maybe the players should actually stand up and earn their astronomical wages for a change?

As stated so many times before, our passing is better our overall game is better but we have no-one to put the ball in the end. Nothing to do with tactics but everything to do with having no money for that special player who can keep his head (and his body free from injury) and score.

Chances are there, that actually comes from tactics you know, we are unfortunately missing them with alarming regularity.
Sam Hoare
8   Posted 15/12/2010 at 11:18:40

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Laurie, I like that team, though increasingly I hate Heitinga and reckon Pienaar will be off so play Rodwell in the middle and Arteta on the left, him and Baines could cause chaos.

At least Cahill going will force Moyes to change things a bit, something we desperately need!!
Dave Lynch
9   Posted 15/12/2010 at 11:23:26

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Tony @7.
See Einstien's quote on insanity.

The game evolves and decent managers adapt, ours doesn't.

We are a one-trick pony with regards the way we play, other managers know exactly how Moyes sets up to play and they adapt accordingly.
KPR Williams
10   Posted 15/12/2010 at 11:26:07

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Same team same tactics same manager as last season, where we feared nobody and everybody feared us... Explain?
Dave Lynch
11   Posted 15/12/2010 at 11:54:30

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See above KPR.
Duncan McDine
12   Posted 15/12/2010 at 11:50:12

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Tony 7 is spot on about the striker we just can't afford. One top class striker could turn us into a top 4 team this year, but there's not a hope in hell that DM will have a penny to spend. I do however agree that Moyes's lack of imagination is costing us at times. It most certainly isn't 100% of the problem though.

Kenwright has strangled our club, and there's no light at the end of the tunnel regarding investment. And if you think we play poor football now, just wait till Pienaar jumps ship!
Dave Lynch
13   Posted 15/12/2010 at 12:08:23

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Quote: "This is the best squad of players I have had."

Which to me means: Better than the squads that got us into Europe etc....

His negative tactics and baffling player formations are the problem.
KPR Williams
14   Posted 15/12/2010 at 12:16:16

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I dont agree, David.

Our Goalkeeper ain't a safe pair of hands;
Our defence ain't defending well;
Our midfield ain't breaking up opposition play, offering an outlet for the defence and supplying the strikers with killer balls;
And our strikers ain't striking.

And I'm sure Mr Moyes ain't telling them that's what they should be doing...
Dave Lynch
15   Posted 15/12/2010 at 12:29:16

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A lot of what I read on here states that we need a striker and all will be well.

You and I know that that ain't the case; you stated yourself in as many words that the whole team is not playing as a unit.

That is Moyes's remit, he is the manager and he sets them out to play in a certain way.

When it all goes tits up, he hasn't got a fucking clue what to do next, mate.
Tony J Williams
16   Posted 15/12/2010 at 11:51:27

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Apparently KPR, Einstein isn't on the wing anymore..... or something like that.

Didn't Einstein quote say something about doing things consistently and expecting a different outcome. Having picked the same team and tactics that went on a good streak last season we are now having different results, E = mc² ? that logic then?
Brian Denton
17   Posted 15/12/2010 at 12:43:57

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Wouldn't mind a fucking embargo on that Einstein quote now.
KPR Williams
18   Posted 15/12/2010 at 12:38:07

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We need our strikers to score goals, they get plenty of chances...
It ain't Moyes who misses sitters, or drop clangers in goal.
They get sent out to do a job they just ain't doing.
KPR Williams
19   Posted 15/12/2010 at 12:51:45

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Who did Einstein play for?
Marcus Kendall
20   Posted 15/12/2010 at 12:57:36

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The worry about Donovan is will he be as effective this time? He himself is talking about needing a break from football as he's been feeling fatigued so I don't think we should automatically assume he's going to transform us. Plus, towards the end of his loan spell last time, he was dropped to the bench in favour of Anichebe, I seem to remember!
KPR Williams
21   Posted 15/12/2010 at 12:58:25

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Are we echoing sentiments Tony?

What did people complain about in here the end of last season?
David Thomas
22   Posted 15/12/2010 at 13:08:50

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Bily up front? I fuckin hope not.
Benn Chambers
23   Posted 15/12/2010 at 13:12:29

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The only thing I want for Xmas now is a new manager! I am bored, actually bored of watching a clueless manager set up his stall for a draw at home and when we do go behind, he is devoid of any invention of how to pull it back!

I have watched us now, for as long as I can remember and under Moyes I actually can't recall 2 out-n-out wingers or 2 forwards starting a game at home, god forbid ? all on the pitch at the same time.

Moyes has known for seasons now that we lack pace and has done fuck all about it!! Our fastest player by streets and the only forward we have that poses a threat, Beckford, never gets a fucking game! I swear to god, if I turn up on Boxing Day and and Saha starts, I'm walking out and I'm done with us until Moyes is gone!

The only good news I want now is that Owen Coyle is our new manager! Bolton were shite before he arrived and now they play some cracking stuff! Pacier wingers in Petrov, who is rapid and was FUCKING FREE, by the way, and 2 forwards in Davies and Elmander, it works and is easy on the eye as well!

Fuck Moyes off, tell him to take Saha, Bily with him and then maybe we will get a manager with a spine who will take action when it's needed! We have a World Cup Final centre-half in Heitinga that gets played in midfield while Jags has been shite for weeks, yet still plays... Saha can't be arsed and Beckford is chomping at the bit, Neville is a great captain but shit at footy.

Oh, and the fact that we have lost Gosling for nothing, Pienaar is about to follow, as is Anichebe ? all because we have fucking idiots who lets contracts run down to within months before they get offered anything!!! If we had sold those players at market value, we're talking £20m+ yet we are skint!! It makes me fume!!

Boxing Day team has to be Howard, Baines, Distin, Heitinga, Coleman, Pienaar, Rodwell, Cahill (if he is here... if not, then Fellaini), Anichebe, Beckford, Vaughan. It has pace and a threat and let's face it, can't do any worse than the shite currently be served up!!!

Tony J Williams
24   Posted 15/12/2010 at 13:32:21

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Benn, I am going to ask a question that winds me up when people ask it.

Did you even see the game on Saturday? We did not set our stall out for a draw (such an easy cliche to quote), we were by far the better side and could have had three/four goals if our forwards could remember how to score.
Aiden Doyle
25   Posted 15/12/2010 at 13:15:54

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Point 1: Pienaar may be off.

Good. Having Pienaar on the pitch is a double-edged sword. He can look good going forwards (though he often flatters to deceive) but he is defensively negligent, leaving our left flank as our greatest strength and our greatest weakness. Our most balanced performance this season was probably away vs. Birmingham, when Osman played on the left. Osman?s link play was every bit as effective as Pienaar?s and was achieved without leaving Baines over-exposed at the back.

Point 3: No-one can score goals except Tiger Tim and he'll be off.

Also good. Moyes? much derided ?tactics? seem designed to accommodate someone who?s little more than adequate as either a striker or a midfielder. Cahill?s absence might finally force Moyes to play in a way that suits the squad as a whole, rather than pander to the man with the highest global media profile.

Point 4: Any other deals are likely to be loans too.

So what? If they play as well as the likes of Arteta, Fernandes, Howard, Pienaar or Donovan did during their loan spells I?ll be more than happy.

As for point 2: We are currently heading into a depression, it depends on what you mean. If you?re talking financially, I?m not too concerned as it could bring some sanity to football finances, which, ultimately should level the playing-field somewhat. If you?re talking about the mood of the squad and of the fans plummeting, then yes, that could be a major problem.
KPR Williams
26   Posted 15/12/2010 at 14:10:09

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Benn, for Bolton see Hull when they came into the Premier... I forecast a top 10 finish come the end of the season for Bolton. I reckon we'll finish above them.
Michael Brien
27   Posted 15/12/2010 at 13:53:23

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I totally agree with Dave Lynch ? we do have a good squad of players, but David Moyes continues with the same tactics. Has there ever been a manager who is so inflexible? He is so unwilling to change or adapt his tactics, but carries on regardless.
Ben Jones
28   Posted 15/12/2010 at 14:33:35

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I do think the strikers need a reshuffle and I can see this happening in the summer. The only thing I can think of is maybe sell the Yak in Jan. Seeing we bought him for 10m at Jan, I can maybe see us selling for 5m. Then use some of it to gamble on someone. Donovan on the right is a welcome acquisition. And Billy in the middle will be useful, but I think Moyes will play Pienaar there.

But in the summer, I can see Yak and Saha leaving and maybe see Vaughan and Anichebe stepping up.

And remember Vaughan will be a new signing! Defo give him a chance
Gavin Ramejkis
29   Posted 15/12/2010 at 14:34:01

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Tony, as has already been said, DM's one trick pony tactics have been found out and as geekish as it seems its like fighting the Borg on Star Trek, after awhile they evolve to beat you and that's what has happened to DM's tactics and his one year older squad. Other teams know how to beat it and are doing so. DM's tactics include playing an off form striker for most of the season, a guy who hasn't scored in nearly a year. He sticks to 4-5-1 when he could play two strikers (don't give me any shite about Cahill being a striker, despite his goals he is a midfielder) even when he has two sat catching splinters in their arse every week, how about 4-4-2 then switching mid match to another formation? It simply isn't in the DM book of one page, one line tactics.
Benn Chambers
30   Posted 15/12/2010 at 14:47:51

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Tony, yeah I went, mate, season ticket. Ok, point taken but I mean why was Saha allowed to come out for the second half ? let alone start??? I don't know but all this shit about sticking by him, he can't score and offers nothing else! He was practically a right winger on Saturday. Beckford is a threat, movement is unreal and pace is much needed. He more than anyone needs the minutes and the goals will flow! Him and Vaughan upfront would scare the shit out of centre halves of Wigan's ilk etc!

And KPR, I will take a top 10 finish right now, I'd rip your arm off for tenth place! How sad is that? It kills me to say it!! Kenwright and Moyes need a fucking dig! After last season, we sign Beckford, Gueye and Silva for £2.5M, fuck me we sold Lucas Neill for nearly that amount! I'm at the end of my rope! It stinks what's happening, Tony, with these clowns in charge!!!
KPR Williams
31   Posted 15/12/2010 at 15:01:11

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I said I think Bolton will be top 10 and we'll finish above them.

its the team that needs a fuckin dig mate. Its them with the exception of Cahill and Baines that walk over that line every week and dont perform.
Anthony Hughes
32   Posted 15/12/2010 at 15:20:33

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We're looking for goals and need a striker and it's reported in one of the papers today that we may be interested in Scott Dann, a centre half. Says it all really about Moyes.
John Gee
33   Posted 15/12/2010 at 15:39:02

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Well done guys, great way to ignore the facts so that you can push your anti-moyes agenda. Our defence is playing well, the stats back that up. Our midfield has been disrupted so far with injuries, suspensions and loss of form but has still shown a capability to compete with the best. The problem rests with the forwards. Is it 3 goals between them? That's poor. The team and Moyes tactics are creating chances and openings for them that they're not exploiting.

How on God's earth can Moyes be blamed for Beckford snatching at every chance, Saha deciding at 14.45 every saturday to be a passenger and 'Ol man Yak following the smell of pies like a bisto kid?

This calling for the managers head over every fucking issue is tiresome...
We're 4th, we should sack the manager to push on.

We lost the cup final, sack the manager because our right back was skinned by a better player.

Our forwards are out of form, sack the manager because they can't be arsed to make the maost of their chances.

A greedy, over-rated winger who doesn't score enough is trying to engineer a move from the club that resurrected his career, sack the manager.

A long term Injured, fringe player refuses to sign a new contract, sack the manager.

Clean sheet record breaking goal keeper mishandles a cross, sack the manager.

Change the fucking record guys.

One more thing, this Einstein thing doing the rounds... just remember that he was wrong about most things (something overlooked by people who want to prove a point inspite of evidence). In fact, in his later life he was positively discredited as a scientist. His inability to grasp quantum physics made him almost a laughing stock.
KPR Williams
34   Posted 15/12/2010 at 16:18:49

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#32 Anthony Hughes ? if your gonna base you opinion of Moyes on 'the paper linking us with a £7M defender' then there is not much more that needs to be said. Rumour has it the press is full of absolute shite, but don't quote me.
Craig Taylor
35   Posted 15/12/2010 at 17:24:46

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One paper suggest we are after a striker with a £38m release clause too....HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA. Oh but to dream we could spend that on someone (worth it),
Andy Crooks
36   Posted 15/12/2010 at 19:26:08

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John Gee, Moyes can be blamed in that he signed, coaches and selects them. His record with strikers is abysmal.
John Gee
37   Posted 15/12/2010 at 19:33:25

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Ok Andy, should we blame Moyes for giving Rooney and Rodwell their chance? Signing Arteta, Peanuts, Jags, Donovan, Baines, Lescott, Cahill, Yakubu, Johnson, Bent, Martyn, Howard, Fernandes, Distin... ?

Should we blame him for getting to a cup final and finishing 4th? should he be blamed for qualifying for europe time and again? Should he be blamed for progressing not just the team but the whole club? Should he be blamed because every dickhead with a computer thinks he can do better? I thinks thats the most applicable question.

His record with second tier strikers is probably comparable to everyone else who has ever managed in the Premier league. With the exception of Shrek, what have any of the strikers he's ever signed or sold done elsewhere? In fact. I'll go you one better, he has got Bent, Johnson, Radsinski, Rooney, Saha (since Fulham) and Yakubu playing better than any other manager (including the red faced one) ever has.

Are we seriously going to have EVERY fucking thread in the mailbag HIJACKED by the anti-Moyes brigade??? It's the same whining posts from the same people on every thread.
Gavin Ramejkis
38   Posted 15/12/2010 at 21:20:20

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John, as you seem to love your keyboard wielding skills, try checking your own facts before your personal crusade against anyone that dares decry the fact DM is a failing manager right here, right now. Look at the table John, yesterday's news is that ?yesterday, no longer means a thing right here, right now.

Also, can you explain carefully how Moyes improved Yakubu as he already had the second best scoring record in the EPL prior to joining us and you claim he had Rooney playing better than Alex Ferguson has, hmmm... interesting.

Take a breath, count to ten and repeat in your own head slowly ..........."other people can have a viewpoint different from me."

John Gee
39   Posted 15/12/2010 at 21:34:18

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Ok Gavin, so history counts for nothing? Be sure to remind everyone around you next time the crowd start singing.

If you remember, Yakubu scored in fits and starts and Rooney did play better under Moyes. He did to teams what Messi does. He has turned into the best English player of his generation but he still looked different gravy with us.

I accept that people have a different opinion to myself. I've read these different opinions and nothing else here because the same people turn every thread into an anti-Moyes rant. Isn't it time for a fresh topic?

Gavin Ramejkis
40   Posted 15/12/2010 at 23:35:58

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If you want a different topic, John, post one. Yakubu was second only to Thierry Henry in the EPL scoring stakes, we had one good season on a par with what he had done before nothing more and then he got injured. Amazingly to many, after looking a better player as he did against the RS and after scoring against Stoke, on both occasions DM dropped him in favour of Saha who has shown nothing for nearly a year.

We'll have to disagree on Rooney, before he left he'd actually started doing fuck all for us, since joining Man U you might notice he's got a few trophies and titles. I'm not raving about him as I think he has blown the talent he had on offer but is still capable of more than most we have.

Marc Williams
41   Posted 15/12/2010 at 23:43:13

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Jay Harris ? Your Father's Aunty's dog is a lying little bastard.
He told me that, for 12 cans of Rabbit flavour chunks & a box of Bonio, he could get me a date with that Scouse honey Rebecca off the X-Factor!

Well, one trip down the Asda & £5.34 later, I'm still waiting, so I wouldn't believe a word that dog tell's you.

Rumour has it the lying little mutt is now working at Goodison in the PR dept. Well when I get hold of him, I'm going to grind him up, put him in a pie & feed him to the Yak!

Jay Harris
42   Posted 16/12/2010 at 01:44:47

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Forget the date, Marc ? he doesn't like Rabbit flavour... that's why he won't work foe EFC's PR dept. They won't feed him either!
KPR Williams
43   Posted 16/12/2010 at 09:19:49

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Gavin, they don't give out cups and European places for where a team is in December. When Walter Smith was shown the doo,r it was March and I think we had 16 points...
It's actually refreshing to hear from somebody who isn't spouting the TW mandate of Moyes out because Einstein says so. Bring on the yay sayers I say because the niegh sayers...

Incidentally, is Rooney not currently in the worst slump in form of his career? I'd actually say he was playing better in any given month when he was with us.

Anthony Hughes
44   Posted 16/12/2010 at 10:06:38

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KPR@34. My opinion of Moyes is based on a lot more than paper talk. Three wins out of 17 this season is what my I'm basing my opinion on ? with his self-proclaimed best squad ever.
KPR Williams
45   Posted 16/12/2010 at 10:08:04

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I'm seeing on the TW stats that we had 30pts at the end of Smiths tenure.
KPR Williams
46   Posted 16/12/2010 at 10:14:42

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Anthony, you can have a squad of Messi's but if they aren't doing what they are supposed to do?

You infer bullshit media speculation is a direct indication of Moyes's approach. Don't believe everything you read in the press, Anthony.
Laurie Hartley
47   Posted 16/12/2010 at 10:11:12

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Seeing we have decided to have another barney can I join in? Here is another Einstein quote - "Imagination is more important than knowledge". With that in mind, Dave Thomas @ 22 (and no apologies to Brian Denton @ 17) imagine Bily playing not quite up front but somewhere just behind the Yak. This might help:

This lad is good enough to play for Russia according to Dick Advocaat (who I am lead to believe is quite a good football coach). Which leads me to suspect we are playing him out of position.

Anthony Hughes
48   Posted 16/12/2010 at 11:02:22

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I don't believe everything I read in the press apart from the facts showing the league table with associated stats. Yes, I agree we haven't got 11 Messi's but at some point the buck has got to stop with the man in charge of team affairs. Moyes can't take all the plaudits when the team are doing well but not accept a chunk of the blame when they arern't.
KPR Williams
49   Posted 16/12/2010 at 11:30:11

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No mention of 3 in 17 in your initial post, just about us being after a defender when the strikers can't hit a cows arse.

My point was/is that it ain't Moyes who is missing sitters, telling the world how fantastic he is, or writing newspaper bullshit. But fuck it, let's sack him an get some one-minute wonder in instead.

Anthony Hughes
50   Posted 16/12/2010 at 12:35:07

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No, Moyes isn't missing the sitters. The striker he picks (Saha) week-in, week-out, regardless of whether he can hit a barn door, the striker he brought in on a free (Beckford) who isn't Premier League standard ? they are missing them.

These are players brought in and being picked by Moyes and playing his "style" of football. The responsibilty stops at Moyes door. As for the tired defence of Moyes of "who could do any better", how the fuck do we know unless we find out?
I agree with a lot of posters who say a lot of Evertonians are locked into this fear syndrome of what life would be like without him. To say we would automatically be worse off is ridiculous because we will never know unless it happens.

KPR Williams
51   Posted 16/12/2010 at 12:55:39

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Every transfer is a gamble... and most of his gambles in the last 9 years have been decent ones. I think it shows a real lack of loyalty and respect to say he should go the moment we (the strikers) have a bad patch.

What was you opinion of Moyes at the end of last season, when the same team playing the 'Moyes way' , the way every manager in the league knew we were going to play, was beaten just twice in 24 games? How come, when everybody knew what they were gonna get?

Don't say we've been sussed, everybody knows how to beat us now... we are getting beat cos we are playing shit, we ain't scoring and the defence is leaking.

No manager since Kendall the 1st time round has put smiles on the faces of Evertonians with such regularity and if it had been up to you lot, Kendall wouldn't have been around cos before the good times the bad times were far worse than they are now...

Tom Bowers
52   Posted 16/12/2010 at 17:06:49

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Donovan for Pienaar is a good swap if it comes about but if Donovan doesn't come then Moyes may just opt to accommodate Osman.

Whatever the midfield selections, we have to expect a bigger contribution goalwise now that Timmie will be absent. That, however, is unlikely and therefore it lies with what we have up front with even more pressure on Becks, Yaks, Saha and Big Vic and again they have to be more clinical than they have been so far. Defensively we have been as sound as most other teams but scoring only 18 goals in 17 games is sub-standard and the reason why we languish near the bottom.

Merry Xmas and a Happy New Year to Moyes and the Boys.

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