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Scouring the loan market, a sign of things to come?

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A fairly open question for discussion. We are currently looking to scour the market for strikers and anyone else that could turn around the season with our small squad and Pienaar more likely to leave and one of our strikers; Vaughan told he can go if anyone puts in an offer. Our players will all be another year older come the end of the season, none of the youth or new players seem anywhere near the first team.

Is anyone wondering if this is the new shape of things to come and will be now be looking to loan players for the whole season?

The current income of the club appears to be: next season's Sky money, already borrowed against to pay existing creditors; Goodison Park, with multiple mortgages on it; Bellefield, still waiting for movement on the development (we're in a global recession if you hadn't noticed so house prices not as boom as they were); and, finally, the players registrations/contracts being his only assets left.

The latter appears to be our only source of income and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realise the only players you can make decent money on would be your better ones, thus weakening the squad... which would have the consequence of affecting league table results ? a spiral you'd need to stabilise surely? How would you stabilise that spiral in reduction of quality in your squad if your current youth players aren't breaking into the first team and you can only unearth so many diamonds from lower leagues???

Less and less money as Kenwright is failing as the chairman of the club and the cupboards are bare... but for the players who are needed to keep the club in the league and to compete.

  • Who would loan a player to a club who is unlikely to buy them at the end of the loan unless they are kids that need game time?
  • Has the lack of money finally got so bad that we literally can't afford any new players whatsoever?
  • If the only assets left are players, how long before even that runs dry and then what?
The longer this goes on, the less the club will be worth...

I just wonder how much (financially) Bill Kenwright is beholden to Sir Phillip Green? Ever since Desperation Kirkby went pop, we haven't made a significant player purchase or has any "ringfenced" (cough, BULLSHIT, cough) money evaporated?
Gavin Ramejkis, Upholland     Posted 18/12/2010 at 16:59:39

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Chris Waugh
1   Posted 18/12/2010 at 22:06:32

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Watching the Sunderland game then really made me realise why Everton are doing so shit this year. They are a team who has been below us for years but they have continued to strengthen financially ? £15M on Bent, £13 on Gyan according to wiki, as well as Welbeck on loan from United (a future england centre-forward)...

While we have a 26-year-old former breakdown mechanic who couldn't hit a barn door with a banjo that we got for free from the 3rd tier of English football! The mind boggles!

Graeme Hodgkinson
2   Posted 18/12/2010 at 23:17:44

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You make some fair point, Gav. What I would say though is that there have been success stories as a result of loans. Pienaar, Howard, Arteta, and Joseph Yobo have all been signed permanently for good value (pre-arranged) prices following successful loan spells.

Also, consider which players we haven?t signed as a result of loans: Senderos, Jo, Castillo, Gravesen (part II), Gardner, Jeffers!!! (Part II). Granted, people will cite Fernandes as the one that got away, but he is the exception rather than the rule.

Now, if only we?d have signed AvdM or Krøldrup on loan?

Jay Harris
3   Posted 18/12/2010 at 23:33:12

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A good shout Gav ? especially the last paragraph which I believe to be very close to the truth.

I believe Green has been monitoring the purse strings so tightly the last 18 months and Moyes doesn't like it ? which is why he is walking around in a permanent strop.

However, we might be a bit more optimistic about keeping Pienaar if the following comment was actually made by Moyes:

?I?d like to think maybe we could get Steven to stay again,? he said.

?I?ve always said to him if you want to come back and talk, then do. If he wants to stay..."
KPR Williams
4   Posted 18/12/2010 at 23:35:44

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Or Heitinga... or Bily... The Lescott money must have been burning a hole in his pocket.

It's not a new thing either, wasn't Super Kevin Campbell brought in on loan initially...? It does have its merits in a kind of "try before you buy" way, I reckon it's the only way to do business in that respect.

We have assets we can sell which won't weaken the squad one iota as they aren't being played and they are shite when they do grace the field. I don't even have to name the culprits do I? Shit, I already have...

Andy Crooks
5   Posted 19/12/2010 at 00:30:18

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I think we are heading toward the tipping point for the club. That will happen when we sell an asset not for the purposes of cleverly strengthening the squad but to survive The players we could sell in January without damaging the club will raise enough money to pay the wages of second-rate loans. Gavin, your article is depressing but true.
Gavin Ramejkis
6   Posted 19/12/2010 at 00:44:51

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My point isn't the validity of loans, its a loan for a player without a view to buy as we simply don't have money. Everton started a trend in the EPL with loans with a view to buy but I simply can't see where we are going with it if we can't buy at the end.

Oh and KPR, on another thread you told me Graeme Sharp came as an unknown from Rangers not having scored; very true ? he never did score a goal for Rangers as he never played for them, he came from Dumbarton with a record of 17 in 40.
James Stewart
7   Posted 19/12/2010 at 01:36:41

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I don't think Moyes would buy some of the players he wants to loan even if he could. He seems pretty happy for Donovan to just come in annually for 3 months!

The Man City cast-offs and Bendtner smack of desperation. They would be purely short term as there is no way we could afford them. It's a pretty depressing business being an Evertonian right now.

I've always been of the belief that our club finances are being run by absolute idiots. Add to that the marketing ? or complete lack of.
Tony I'Anson
8   Posted 19/12/2010 at 08:36:41

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If DM needs to get 3 or 4 new players on the pitch in January, I believe he needs to do it whatever way possible ? loan, buy, sell existing. Because, make no bones about it, we are in a dog fight. I see DM was watching West Ham at Blackburn on Saturday. Maybe discussing a Yak deal??

I was one of those saying this would be our year of challenging for the title. I stand by that belief at the start of the season as all the positive signs were there. If we can't believe we are ever going to win the league one day (or have a plan to do so), well what's the flaming point? I am patient. I can wait a few seasons, but I want to see progress at all levels of EFC to take our club to the heights it should be at.
KPR Williams
9   Posted 19/12/2010 at 08:41:53

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Did I say he came from Rangers at any point? He came from Scottish football, I didn't realise that list you plagiarized contained exclusively Rangers players... Ferguson came from Rangers not having scored many goals.

We can't buy until we sell and selling in the January window to the 1st bidder might not get us the player's worth...

Tony I'Anson
10   Posted 19/12/2010 at 08:49:14

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Parker for Yak?
Gavin Ramejkis
11   Posted 19/12/2010 at 08:55:22

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Spurs are after Parker and have already been knocked back. I did notice Moyes in the stands watching and besides Parker, there wasn't a single player between both sides I would want to see at Everton. Moyes did look pretty miserable too.

KPR, Duncan only played 14 games for Rangers and scored twice, he played a lot more for Dundee Utd scoring 28 goals in 77 appearances which isn't bad considering he actually started out as a centre half who progressively got pushed further and further up the pitch by consecutive coaches.
KPR Williams
12   Posted 19/12/2010 at 08:50:13

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James StewartI

"I've always been of the belief that our club finances are being run by absolute idiots. Add to that the marketing ? or complete lack of."

I know an accountant who went for a job at Everton about 7-8 years back and she said they were still doing all their books pen and paper style at that stage. She turned down the role and ended up with a job at the FA... now that's a whole other story...
Ray Roche
13   Posted 19/12/2010 at 09:16:50

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Moyes was watching West Ham because we play them in a couple of weeks.
KPR Williams
14   Posted 19/12/2010 at 09:19:57

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1 in 7 ain't great, is it? He probably maintained that record during his years with us. He was at Rangers the same time as Mark Hateley which did him no good at all.

His record at Dundee wasn't bad but it seems as his career progressed the goals diminished and the injuries increased, anyway, it's a pub league so....

His strength was his strength and I feel he was a leader. He made the team give 100%. I reckon he'd have something to say in the dressing room come half-time if you had strolled around like some of ours do just now..

Gavin Ramejkis
15   Posted 19/12/2010 at 09:39:59

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KPR it's interesting what you say about your friend that told you the story of their books. I heard a rumour from an accountant acquaintance when BK took over that he had heard another accountant had taken a look and walked.

The number of business opportunities we have missed is criminal; the major ones for me being Capital of Culture and any marketing whatsoever of our Cup and European runs.

Did you ever meet Duncan, KPR? He is a really nice bloke but to be honest he didn't seem to have much love of football and was always more interested in his pigeons. I can sympathise as the industry I've worked in for over 20 years I despise but it pays really well, neither of my alternative choices would have such returns.
Steve Cotton
16   Posted 19/12/2010 at 09:50:08

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The fact that the city players names have come into the public domain is surely a smokescreen; same with Bendtner. I am pretty sure he has put his eggs in the Donovan basket and a relatively unknown striker from Europe. The three named above would be on too high wages for a start!

I don't think he will let Bily go, even though he should, as it will be a sign of another Krøldrup purchase, so he may persist with him. JH has to go before he knocks Moysie out in his office and I think SP may re-sign.. but don't quote me.

Brian Denton
17   Posted 19/12/2010 at 10:41:08

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Gavin, I'm sure many of us would echo your final sentence!

BTW did you or your family live in Kirkby in the early sixties? I went to school with a girl called Ramejkis ? it was spelt the same way and sticks in my mind.
Danny Burke
18   Posted 19/12/2010 at 11:08:57

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I can see loans becoming more and more prevalent with the world's finances the way they are. A few seem immune (City, Chelsea etc) but the majority of clubs will struggle financially more and more.

Look at our attendance against Wigan, I've not seen it that empty for ages, I'm sure part of it was down to the shitty run we are on at the moment but people's finances only reach so far. Less people going to the game means less income for the club. 32,000 ish at the game, 40,000 capacity. 8000 unsold tickets at £25 ish is £200,000. Plus a few scarves, pies, pints etc maybe £250,000-£300,000 lost income. (Please dont pick apart my example, it's only a very loose approximation but it makes my point I think.)

As for our alleged loan targets:

Donovan ? I'd have him back in a flash.
Santa Cruz ? Sell some "Santa" hats but he seems more injury-prone than Saha.
Adebeyor ? bit of a cock but is strong, big, good in the air and can finish. Could do well in our 1-up-front system.
Bentley ? not fussed but could do a job.
SWP ? would add pace but final ball is worse than Cap'n Pips. (I read someone on here once say SWP stands for Shite Wing Play!)
Bendtner ? Pink boots, thinks he's Lionel Messi when he's more like Lional Blair!

Martin Faulkner
19   Posted 19/12/2010 at 10:53:16

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Gavin,
Big Dunc didn't get pushed further and further up the pitch by consecutive coaches. DF only played for 1 coach at Dundee Utd and that was the indomitable Jim Mclean, he left the same year Jim stopped coaching and moved upstairs, went and signed for Jim's former Number 2 who had just been made Rangers' number 1 after Souness left ? yes, you guessed it: Walter Smith.

He actually played 21 times and scored 5 goals in all competitions (one of my best mates growing up was a Dundee Utd fan).

He was also a British transfer record at the time he went to Rangers for £4mil. (That was way back when BSkyB thought all football was worth shedloads of cash.)

Gavin Ramejkis
20   Posted 19/12/2010 at 12:08:59

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Brian, the Kirkby lot are related yes, I also spent many years as a young lad visiting relatives and playing with cousins. During the DK debacle I was able to comment on its capability of hosting a football team as one of them played for Kirkby.

Martin, I meant in his football career, Duncan started life as a centre-half and by each of his coaches he was pushed further up the pitch to become a target man, even back then hoofball was alive and well. Duncan is always remembered for his towering headers but in his days had two great feet too and was really good in defending corners.
David Thomas
21   Posted 19/12/2010 at 12:39:55

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"The number of business opportunities we have missed is criminal; the major ones for me being Capital of Culture and any marketing whatsoever of our Cup and European runs."

Gavin,

Could you expand on this paragraph? Marketing of our Cup run etc ? in what way?
Gavin Ramejkis
22   Posted 19/12/2010 at 13:00:19

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David, where was the merchandising from the club? Street traders had more stuff and they obviously don't give the club a penny back. Where was the exploitation of the achievement in marketing to investors (yeah 10 years and counting)? Why not get his smug face on TV and tell the world about Everton? Everton's offerings are pitiful and the lack of media exploitation from a man who supposedly thrives in the media is shocking.
David Hallwood
23   Posted 19/12/2010 at 13:10:38

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Around 1992, just as they were inventing football, I remember watching an interview with a member of the FA (can you think of a better name for that pack o' wankers) who confidentially predicted that with so much Sky money coming into the game, clubs would be financially secure and ticket prices would be nominal.

Fast forward almost 20 years and he?s got something right, that there has never so much money coming into the game, but what is becoming clear that unless a club has ?investment?, which in football terms means find some soft bastard with more money than sense to throw bundles of the stuff at the club with little or no chance of seeing it again, then the club is going to struggle. There are exceptions to this, ie The Arse, or Man U or even the RS that can attract gates of 70k+ (which is why the RS saddled themselves with Hicks & Gillette).

What will be interesting this transfer window is Chelsea, because if they don?t spend significant amounts of money, then we?ll all know that the financial game is up for football.

Take the current Citteh model; unfashionable club that has found someone who wants a train set, how do they attract players to the club that in pre-train set days wouldn?t touch them with a barge pole? Why of course pay the players stupid, economics-of?the-madhouse wages.

Except of course Tevez, feels that £160k (or whatever) he?s being paid is not enough; he?s homesick but just like Rooney who was willing to trade the hurt of playing in a declining clubs for fucking wads and wads of extra cash, Tevez will stay for a doubling of wages.

And the train set owners, Abramovich & Arab oil now realise that no matter how much money they throw at their new Hornby, it will never be enough.

Which brings us back to Philip Green; now our Phil is allegedly not a football person but to state the bleedin? obvious, is a successful businessman, and views the economic model that football operates as barking, and obviously wants nothing to do with it, therefore if he is holding the purse strings of the club, is he bleeding us dry or attempting to introduce some sanity into the business?

Now I?m neither pro- nor anti-Kenwright, and the 10-year football mad boy that I still am dreams of an oil sheik, Russian oligarch, international drug dealer ? any bleeding one with money to burn, coming over the hill like the 7th cavalry to rescue our season.

However, this is not the way to run a business, and any business that cannot fund itself ? especially with the levels of income that it is receiving, is in trouble... and it?s just a matter of time that football in general and Everton in particular slip off the tightrope

Marc Williams
24   Posted 19/12/2010 at 12:47:23

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Welcome to Radio Everton

DJ: "Today's song has been specially selected by Toffeeweb readers to reflect Chairman Bill's economic model for the club. It's the FAB FOUR with 'I Get by
(buys) with a little help (loans) from my friends.'"

Producer: "He's doesn't have any friends left, they are all now EX-Friends or have gone off to watch Spurs."

DJ: "Right then, folks, it's back to another classic scouse melodrama for this one: 'Living on the never, never'"
Ciarán McGlone
25   Posted 19/12/2010 at 13:12:24

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"I stand by that belief at the start of the season as all the positive signs were there"
----------------

No they weren't. We didn't buy in the positions we needed to... see the 'balance' article.
James Stewart
26   Posted 19/12/2010 at 13:16:42

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Interesting, KPR Williams.

I have to say that does not surprise me. The whole marketing and Everton as a brand needs root and branch reform. You get the feeling the people with the power are happy to just plod along though. The website for one is a total joke!
David Thomas
27   Posted 19/12/2010 at 13:09:20

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"Why not get his smug face on TV and tell the world about Everton?"

I remember seeing / hearing Kenwright being interviewed numerous time on Sky Sports News and on Radio during our cup run. In fact, if I remember rightly, he was interviewed on Radio 2 talking about Everton on the morning of the semi-final and the final.

However, most people on this website have attacked Kenwright for coming on TV and radio during the times when the team are doing well ie a cup run, but not during the times when the team is not performing. People can't have it both ways. You can't attack someone for not getting his face on TV and then criticise him when he does saying he only does it in the good times.

I actually felt the club sold a good level of merchandise for the cup run. The people I went to the semi final and final with were all wearing merchandise they had bought from the club shop specifically brought out in relation to our cup run, ie T-shirts, hats etc.
Gavin Ramejkis
28   Posted 19/12/2010 at 13:19:41

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David, I can't see Chelski splurging this January for two reasons; I think Ancelotti's days are numbered after they dumped Wilkins and him saying along the lines of he doesn't have control afterwards and the second one being the strong rumour that after Hibbert aka Putin got the World Cup and supported Abramovich (who was his daughter's friend) to takeover the majority of the Russian Oil fields he is calling in those favours with Abramovich reputedly bankrolling their World Cup to a massive bill.

The whole business model of the EPL is unsustainable but as Arsenal have shown can be levelled with a good crack to break the monoculture of pitch related income, Everton simply don't have significant non game income and barely exploit game income, they have borrowed heavily on next season's income which worries me. How long before they run a cropper and have fuck all else to trade on?
Gavin Ramejkis
29   Posted 19/12/2010 at 13:45:08

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David Thomas, all of people I went to the semi and cup final with and spoke to at Wembley had all bought merchandise from street vendors around Goodison. Whenever I've heard BK on Radio 2, it's usually some useless self-fantasy tales of things that could never have happened or listing his favourite songs of the past. I'm talking about marketing the club and letting potential investors know its available for investment/sale (not likely as I think that is also not true we have ever been for sale).

It's the manner and reason of why he comes to the media and it's usually some self-proclaiming back-slapping gushing rubbish rather than to promote the club and seeking investment and or a buyer.
Kunal Desai
30   Posted 19/12/2010 at 13:49:36

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I'm an accountant. Maybe I should introduce Microsoft Excel to BK along with other accounting software. Then again, with his lack of business acumen, it probably would be pointless. Let him operate in the dinosaur age.
David Hallwood
31   Posted 19/12/2010 at 13:54:34

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Nice one, Gavin, you've just saved Everton! Get in touch with Putin and offer him large amounts of cash, and let's face it he's a gangster so he'll take it. His part of the deal is to phone Abramovich and reveal that he is in fact our much loved right back, and he must divert his cash to GP. Simples
Gavin Ramejkis
32   Posted 19/12/2010 at 14:12:49

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David #30 lmao
David Thomas
33   Posted 19/12/2010 at 13:59:11

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Gavin,

Are you suggesting Kenwright should contact the likes of Sky Sports / Talksport etc etc and ask if he can have a five / ten minute slot to speak to the public in order to allow him the opportunity to detail out why people should invest in everton. Is that the type of thing you mean?
Gavin Ramejkis
34   Posted 19/12/2010 at 14:56:55

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David, I'm saying that as a supposedly media savvy bloke, not sure how beyond his fairy tales about Elvis, he must surely think if the club really is for sale (no sniggering at the back) and he gets an opportunity for whatever reason on a media forum such as Talksport (with his arse kissing friend Parry) or Sky or National Radio, then he puts the club out there in the public domain.

Christ a modicum of media savvy would have anyone chomping at the bit if they knew they were going to be heard or seen by millions and had something to sell for the free advertising. Not once have I seen or heard him do anything remotely approaching promoting the club for investment or sale.
Michael Kenrick
35   Posted 19/12/2010 at 15:09:18

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Danny (#18) re the Wigan attendance. Low attendances in December pre-Christmas have become something of a norm for us:

Sat 17 Dec 10 v Wigan (H) 0 - 0 ? 32,853 16th
Sun 20 Dec 09: Birmingham City (H) 1 - 1 ? 33,660 16th
Sun 7 Dec 08 Aston Villa (H) 2 - 3 ? 31,922 8th Sky
Sat 8 Dec 07 Fulham (H) 3 - 0 ? 32,743 7th
Sun 17 Dec 06 Chelsea (H) 2 - 3 ?Yobo 33,970 10th Sky
Kieran Fitzgerald
36   Posted 19/12/2010 at 15:17:37

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I think Gavin that instead of getting in loan players, it may well be a case of selling players to balance the books and then just giving the likes of Duffy and Rodwell more and more games. By all accounts, Duffy is very highly rated and with a surplus of senior pros in defense a couple of them may just be shown the door. Coleman can also play at the back so this may be extra reason to sell what we have.

As for the midfield, I think giving Rodwell a lot more games will compensate for the loss of Pienaar as one of the main strengths of both players is their ability to run at defences. I think Rodwell also has enough experience at this stage to justify giving him more games anyway.

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like Moyes is ever going to give Bily the opportunity in a more central role to prove himself. With little in the way of young flair players coming through, we will still be under the added pressure of trying to find a creative player to take some of the burden off Arteta.
Tony Waring
37   Posted 19/12/2010 at 15:54:23

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David Hallwood. You got it in a nutshell. What I want to know is what the hell has Philip Green got to do with Everton? People go on about him all the time but as far as I know he has no direct link with Everton. Ain't he a Spurs fan?
Gavin Ramejkis
38   Posted 19/12/2010 at 16:00:36

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Kieran, when I saw Duffy play pre-season he looked good but needed an older head alongside and Coleman needs more experience in defence and is prone to big mistakes. Rodwell is a very different player from Pienaar and technically a defender who is being pushed up after showing some speed and attacking flair but he's not a winger.

Tony, Green appears to be someone that BK knows and went cap in hand to, Green is savvy and looked for his payout though with the retail carrot of Kirkby which didn't come off and has since pulled back the credit line. Earl too is a Spurs fan but smacks of being a front for Green and BK to buyout Gregg and hasn't been seen since, christ Gregg probably went to more games than Earl.
Danny Burke
39   Posted 19/12/2010 at 16:41:33

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Interesting trend you have picked out there, Michael, money is tight for most of us at Christmas time so maybe one of the things to go is a ticket for the match. That and the wags dragging fellas to town Crimbo shopping instead.
Joey Brown
40   Posted 19/12/2010 at 16:38:29

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A large part of me has felt for a while this season that I would support selling any player who would garner a large profit, fill the holes with youth, and pray and start over. A lot of the time you need to balance the budget before you can think about moving on. We have no money and it's clearly getting worse.

We fail and get relegated and we lose the Sky money, yeah but we aren't exactly hanging in the top end of the table with the high wagers are we?
David Thomas
41   Posted 19/12/2010 at 16:29:49

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Gavin,
"Christ a modicum of media savvy would have anyone chomping at the bit if they knew they were going to be heard or seen by millions and had something to sell for the free advertising. Not once have I seen or heard him do anything remotely approaching promoting the club for investment or sale."

Do you mean for example by going on national TV / Radio etc numerous time stating that the club is up for sale and that the club are looking for buyers / investors etc??? If so, he has done this numerous times on Sky Sports and Radio etc.

However, you seem to suggest in your posts that the club is not actually for sale. If this is what you believe then I don't really understand why you are surprised that in your opinion he has not gone out into the public domain and tried to sell the club to people through the use of the different media outlets.
Andy Crooks
42   Posted 19/12/2010 at 16:55:12

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Gavin, Seamus Coleman needs experience at right back and with Hibbert and Neville here he will never get a chance. Duffy is real quality, I have watched him many times and believe me, Gavin, he has got it. This is not a case of me promoting Irish lads, though seeing them in an Everton shirt gives me a good deal of pride. It really is a case that I see more Irish games than Everton games.
Gavin Ramejkis
43   Posted 19/12/2010 at 17:21:15

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David Thomas, I think there's a lot more to the sale of Everton beyond some of Billy Bullshitter's soundbites. As has been alluded to before on this website, what does Green have to do with that sale ? contact Orville's mate and ask. BK's tune has changed in line with his two-faced attitude to the fans and supporters from investment to for sale, then the DK hearing blew a fucking big hole in his bullshitisms, saying not one of the major shareholders were willing to sell or dilute their shares ? or do you have another meaning for that?

Andy Crooks, don't get me wrong ? I was impressed by Duffy, he has decent presence and ability but seemed to come off the boil in the game I watched him play after Hibbert went off alongside him at centre-half... but admit I haven't seem him play many games. If he doesn't get game time, he'll not improve either.
Brian Denton
44   Posted 19/12/2010 at 17:47:40

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Gavin, you must then have an [Auntie?] Irene who went to Holy Angels. Is she a Blue?
David Thomas
45   Posted 19/12/2010 at 17:52:27

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Gavin,

You said before "Not once have I seen or heard him do anything remotely approaching promoting the club for investment or sale." and "I'm talking about marketing the club and letting potential investors know its available for investment/sale."

I have stated that he has done this numerous times and you could more than likely see / hear the articles / interviews by going on Google. However, this now does not seem to be what you are actually after.

So... what exactly is it that you want Kenwright to come out and say to the media regarding Everton?

Josh Holmes
46   Posted 19/12/2010 at 19:35:00

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Jamie O'Hara look to be available for a loan, I would love to have him here. Quality player!
Jon Cox
47   Posted 19/12/2010 at 19:28:37

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COYB
Simon Jenkins
48   Posted 19/12/2010 at 20:29:16

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#45 David, the problem with some people is that even when Kenwright comes out and says the stuff that he supposedly never says, those same people are in complete denial and refuse to believe he means it. So he can't really win; he just becomes an enabler for moaning ? a scapegoat for people to blame because no seriously rich person actually wants to buy Everton.
Peter Laing
49   Posted 19/12/2010 at 20:48:27

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The most telling story of the day appeared on the back page of the Sunday Mirror: Quatar investment group in bid to buy Manchester United for £1.5 bn. I laughed my tits off a few weeks ago when a very tenuous link emerged that they may be interested in acquiring Everton. We can squabble all we like about the inadequacies of the current team and David Moyes, investment or a buy-out is very unlikely, we are unfashionable, not marketable and largely a spent force in the top flight of English football.
Kieran Fitzgerald
50   Posted 19/12/2010 at 21:13:43

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Unfortunately Peter you are right. People can point at the likes of Man City or Blackburn and ask why are they more attractive than us? It's very simple and very obvious. City had a fancy new stadium that didn't place a large debt around their neck. Blackburn still had some of the Jack Walker trust money right up to the end of last season. Even West Ham, who are a lesser club in the overall scheme of things, have made themselves potentially very attractive if they can succeed in acquiring the new stadium being built for I think it's the Olympics.

Everton... well, we've had years upon years of a lack of investment and have managed to make a mess of our own opportunities ? such as the Kings Dock project.
Robert Daniels
51   Posted 19/12/2010 at 21:23:50

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Kenwright won't even name a price!

He has totaly failed to invest in the stadium, even now, with the proposed new development for the car park, he is failing to make the most of improving the ground.

With a little more imagination, and possibly a share rights issue, we could develop the Park End stand at the same time.

Lets be honest, it could be done, but it won't... Why?

Because he would have to dillute his shareholding, and he won't or can't. (Green, anyone?)
Gerry Grimes
52   Posted 19/12/2010 at 22:12:55

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We survive on a shoestring. It passed being about a transfer pot to a wages pot about 3 years ago. My own guess is that Pienaar leaves in Jan for £3M. We spend that £3M and the wages saved on Pienaar on getting Donovan and a striker on loan. To compete we need investment and we need it bad. Thankfully, Blue Bill is out there looking for it 24/7.
Gavin Ramejkis
53   Posted 20/12/2010 at 00:43:43

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Sorry not to have replied earlier, I was being entertained by John Bishop at the Echo Arena ? a good night out but a reminder of Bill's biggest fuck-up which he'll never be forgiven for.

David and anyone else who claim the club is for sale, Google it yourself and ask what the difference between looking for investment to for sale to looking for investment ad nauseum... then the DK hearings papers make BK sound like. The trouble these days is that there is far more information available for people to look at before they make a decision on what they do and don't believe. What is it about denial that you can happily attribute to anyone that calls BK as they find him yet can't possibly think old blue rinse is in denial himself?

Is the club for sale or not? If so, what's the price and why is Green involved? If not, why not? If not what are the terms on offer for the investment? What are the conditions? ? such as BK remaining on the board in both a sale scenario and an investment one?

Tony Cheek
54   Posted 20/12/2010 at 05:22:56

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Just read on the OS that DM is waiting to hear from Donovan regarding another loan period. Apparently he needs cover on the right as he nedds to "give Coleman a break here and there"... Jesus!! he is one of the few who looks like he would run all day and has actually showed that he is maturing into the PL... Now, we don't want that, do we? Stamp on that at once, DM...

There are quite a few I could think of that need a break here and there, ie, Howard, Saha, Neville, but no... get at the young ones first... DM OUT NOW!!

David Thomas
55   Posted 20/12/2010 at 08:50:54

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Gavin,

"Is the club for sale or not? If so, what's the price and why is Green involved? If not, why not? If not what are the terms on offer for the investment? What are the conditions? ? such as BK remaining on the board in both a sale scenario and an investment one?"

I presume these are the things you want Kenwright to answer???? Would you really expect someone running a business to come and and start stating these facts to the general public? Who else in business does this?
KPR Williams
56   Posted 20/12/2010 at 08:58:56

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I reckon after a great start, Coleman's effectiveness as a flying winger is lessening by the game. At times, the lad just needs to look up.
Tony Waring
57   Posted 20/12/2010 at 09:27:51

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KPR at #56 you are correct. I've mentioned recently that Seamus, though willing and speedy, is being sussed out by the opposition quite often. He is very predictable in that it's usually a case of light the blue touch paper, head down and off like a rocket. That can and does work at times but once the defender cottons on, Seamus finds it difficult to find another trick. He's not another Lennon or a Donovan but he's willing and runs all day. Perhaps he could do with a rest and some alternative coaching?
KPR Williams
58   Posted 20/12/2010 at 09:41:04

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Gavin (#15) ? I never did meet him, Gavin. My mate was in the women's hospital when his Mrs and Duncan's were both having kids at the same time and he met him a few times. Said he was a lovely fella.

I can understand his attitude in a way. Everybody has a horrible ignorant twat at work who everybody hates. I can imagine the frequency of ignorant twat in football being quite high...

Jimmy Hacking
59   Posted 20/12/2010 at 10:27:55

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Thinking about our club's future depresses me so much that I try not to. I don't see any way out of the mess we are in.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: in 20 years time, we will be no bigger than a Burnley or a West Brom, yo-yo-ing between the top two divisions, playing in front of about 20,000 fans who bang on about "the good old days" and struggle to remember when we were a force to be reckoned with. I literally cannot envisage a different scenario.

And for those of you you say "It'l never happen, we are too big a club", that's precisely my point; it DID happen, to Wolves, West Brom, Sunderland, Stoke, Preston, Burnley, Leeds, Nottingham Forest... all huge clubs who fell from grace, and out of that lot only Sunderland arguable ever (partially) recovered.
Gavin Ramejkis
60   Posted 20/12/2010 at 10:44:39

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David, if it will finally allow the penny to drop:

Is the club for sale? ? YES/NO

Is Kenwright still looking for investment? ? YES/NO

Depending on the day of the week, anger levels of the supporters, if the decorators are in Aunty Billemina's house, you get a different answer.

I'd expect a company for sale to be advertised as such not change the fucking tune to suit the situation.
David Thomas
61   Posted 20/12/2010 at 12:34:05

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Gavin,

You have said you want Kenwright to come out and tell the media the club is up for sale. He has done this. You have asked him to come out in the media and say he is looking to bring people with more financial power into the club. He has said he is trying to do this.

Whether you or I choose to believe him or not is a different issue completely.

David Hallwood
62   Posted 20/12/2010 at 13:07:11

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Gavin, you appear to be quite a smart chap, but you and a number of posters on this site appear to think that buying/selling a club is like selling a car ? you put the car in the Automart, someone comes round kicks the tyres and offers you £100 less than the asking price.

The simple fact is that most big/biggish companies aren't owned by one individual, whether public or private companies, but a number of shareholders, and if a person or organisation wants to buy a company they offer the shareholders x amount to but their shares. Stan Kroenke has been quietly buying Arsenal shares for the past 3 to 4 years.

In business, it doesn?t really matter whether the owners wish to sell, if someone wants to buy, they?ll make a move; witness the many hostile takeovers of companies such as Cadbury's, and although that was a listed company, there have been many examples of private, even family-owned company where one of the shareholders has broken ranks and sold their shares to the highest bidder in the teeth of fierce opposition from the other partners.

Besides, if a company/individual wanted to buy Everton, it would be all over the papers ?Russian oligarch/Sheik, eyes Everton FC? that sort of thing, they tend to put out feelers to smoke out the shareholders. The fact that no one has put in an offer leads me to believe that Everton isn?t considered attractive, either as a straight investment or a flagship loss leader for the House of Saud for example.

Our problem is that we view football through blue-tinted glasses; take off the glasses and all you can see is an ailing club with nil investment and limited scope for generating extra income.
Steve Pugh
63   Posted 20/12/2010 at 14:10:23

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David, Everton is a club with a massive Worldwide following that has grown despite a lack of marketing effort by the club itself. We are a club that has continually failed to develop the marketing opportunities that have come our way, and we have the potential within our playing ranks to challenge at the highest level.

If our great club was taken over by proper business people who wanted to make it grow then the opportunities are massive.
Gavin Ramejkis
64   Posted 20/12/2010 at 15:09:38

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Davids (both) ? if you had a commodity reputedly for sale and the potential buyer knew it was originally bought for approximately £20M and had very little collateral other than players contracts and burgeoning debt thanks to the current owner who slapped a £250M to £300M price tag on it, you'd not even proceed to due diligence.

I've heard the arguments before about so called buyers running to the press like a spoilt brat that didn't get their way, "Oooh, bad man Bill won't sell to me, isn't he a rotter." They move on and buy something else, why would they want to see their arse in a failed attempt publicly?

How in this day and age can you seriously ask anyone to believe that, beyond Bill's Fairy Tales to get rid of Gregg, we have never been approached by a buyer? I removed the blue-tinted specs a long time ago having seen the club fall by the wayside year by year thanks to Bill.

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