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I'm very much in the camp of wanting Steven Pienaar to stay, he offers something creatively that the rest of the team lacks and his combination play with Bainsey at times is as good as any left side out there. I was, however, surprised to learn that out of the 4 games we've actually won this season Pienaar has only figured in one, the 1-0 home win v Stoke and, let's be honest, we weren't sparkling and very fortunate that Tuncay's goal was chalked off. He didn't figure against Liverpool, Birmingham or of course last night against City; three performances that in my opinion have shown the togetherness and grit of recent seasons.

Could it be that Pienaar's lack of commitment is having a Lescott-like effect on the team, on the quiet?

Of course I'm not suggesting that we're a better side without him because undoubtedly he is an excellent footballer, more that if he does go that it isn't necessarily the end of the world.

Continuing the same theme for a second, it's also interesting to note that, again, of the 4 games we've won, Yak has started 3 with the only exception being last night - such a pity he's out the door in Jan, or so it would seem...
Ben Hunt, Manchester     Posted 21/12/2010 at 18:40:29

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Lyndon Lloyd
1   Posted 21/12/2010 at 23:50:37

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That's the thing, though. While he may not have committed his future to the Club, he has been 100% committed on the field when he's played. And with better finishing from Jermaine Beckford against Wigan, for example, he'd have featured in a win in that game.

For me, the statistic you raise is a coincidence rather than indictment of Pienaar.
KPR Williams
2   Posted 21/12/2010 at 23:51:17

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Fuck him off and watch him warm the bench wherever he goes. He's not as good as he thinks he is and obscurity beckons... a half-fit Osman done everything he's ever done for us last night...
Jay Harris
3   Posted 22/12/2010 at 00:06:10

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2+2=5 or so the logic goes. Statistics are available to prove most theories Ben but for me getting rid of Pienaar is to be avoided at all costs.

The thing that was obvious to me last night was that all City's attacks and pressure came from our left side and Bainesy was suffering a similar fate to Hibbo when he had Ossie in front of him.

Ossie has passion and a nice touch on the ball but cannot cope with the physical demands of the current premiership.

The main difference for me last night was that Moyes looked really up for the 3 points something I havent seen in him in a while so a team effort got us through not a change of one player..
Garry Corgan
4   Posted 22/12/2010 at 00:43:27

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I don't think we should be happy to 'get rid' of Pienaar. Far from it, he's one of the few skillful, flair players we have.

At the same time, he isn't a left winger. He simply does not get to the byline and put crosses into the box. He always, always, always cuts inside and tries to play through balls into marked men. Sure, sometimes it comes off and looks great when it does but the lad doesn't create or score nearly as many chances as someone of his ability should.

Yes, I know Baines tends to get up on the overlap and does the job quite well but the whole thing makes our play very predictable indeed.

For me, Pienaar should be playing through the middle. Would this work with Arteta alongside him, also through the middle? Probably not. What if Fellaini/Rodwell played behind them as an anchor? Fine, but then where does Cahill play? We can't drop Cahill can we?

Either way, Pienaar's a great option to have but if we were to sell and bring in a proper, orthodox left-winger our 'strongest eleven' would be the better for it... although we'll probably sell him and being in an extra centre-back if history is anything to go by.
Lyndon Lloyd
5   Posted 22/12/2010 at 01:39:26

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a half fit Osman done everything he's ever done for us last night...

Really? Are you serious? He didn't play badly at all - it was perfectly a competent performance - but I can't think of single thing of real note that Osman did last night.

A defence-splitting ball? An inch-perfect pass to Baines on the overlap? A breakaway to deftly chip the goalkeeper to rival one of our goals of last season?

As long a servant as Ossie has been, he'll never be a first-team regular worthy of a team with the aspirations with which Everton started the season. Great squad player but he's no Pienaar...
Aiden Doyle
6   Posted 22/12/2010 at 02:06:34

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Not sure that I wholly agree with your point about Osman, Jay. Firstly, our left hand side is widely recognised as being effective offensively whilst being defensively vulnerable. The chances are that City would have targeted that flank whether or not Pienaar had been playing. Secondly, whilst he was ostensibly filling Pienaar?s role, Moyes switched things around so that, for much of the game Osman played more centrally and it was actually Anichebe playing in front of Baines and tracking Zabaleta?s runs.

As for Pienaar himself, he generally flatters to deceive. Whilst he can certainly look skilful and industrious, this season you can pretty much guarantee one of three things happening when he?s in possession: he?ll give it to Baines who might create something useful, he?ll invite a foul and win a free kick (which we?ll waste) or he?ll lose possession. I don?t think he?ll be missed as much as he?d like to think when he moves on.
James Stewart
7   Posted 22/12/2010 at 05:13:14

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I personally find Pienaar one of the most frustrating players to watch ever!

Never shots when he should and is not all that dangerous with the ball in the final third. Neat and tidy yes. Skillful yes. Integral? I have to say no not at all.
Jason Lam
8   Posted 22/12/2010 at 06:25:11

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One of the few decent crosses I remember from Pienaar was the one for Cahill at Old Trafford, and that was on his right peg as well. He likes to run a lot and attempt through-balls where no-one on earth is on his wavelength, let alone Everton. He will not be missed. I say play Arteta on the left and Fellaini as anchor.
Brian Lawlor
9   Posted 22/12/2010 at 08:45:11

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I like Pienaar and would have preferred him to stay but, as I said over 12 months ago on this site, the club and him were poles apart from agreeing terms and it would be likely he would leave. My understanding is that he is being paid a huge signing-on fee by Spurs.

Pienaar is hardworking and good with the ball at his feet. However, lots of people seem to have this misconception that he's 'creative'? Does he score many goals? ? only one this season. Does he get many assists ? not one single assist this season... Even Cahill has got 3, Baines has got 6, .Osman who has missed lots of games has got 2!

Fuck him and let him to go to Spurs earning more money but not playing anywhere near as much. At the end of the day he's replaceable.
KPR Williams
10   Posted 22/12/2010 at 08:41:43

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Osman contributed in a very good team performance the other night. He's no Pienaar??? That can only be a good thing. Or he'd be in the office telling the boss how fantastic he is a demanding a massive pay hike...

I'm struggling to think of anything Pienaar has done all season. Remember him costing us a goal against Sunderland and the fact we seem to win with him out of the team. I don't think he'll be missed half as much as you think. A competent replacement will do just as well..

Ray Roche
11   Posted 22/12/2010 at 09:48:17

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It's Pienaar that backheels it for Osman to score.
James Cadwaladr
12   Posted 22/12/2010 at 09:55:52

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I personally think he will sign in January and I will be very pleased if he does.
KPR Williams
13   Posted 22/12/2010 at 09:55:37

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Shhhhh ? stop stealing Ossie's thunder, it's all about the finish!
Paul O'Hanlon
14   Posted 22/12/2010 at 10:14:47

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Agree with James #7 completely.

Pienaar lacks a final product. Look at his stats in his time at Everton. He averages less than 4 goals a season and this season he's scored only 1. His assists tally isn't much higher either. As good a player as he is (and he does make us play more attractive football)...that's not good enough for the top teams who he's presumably eyeing up.
Sandra Bowen
15   Posted 22/12/2010 at 09:41:31

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It really bugs me when people come on here spouting absolute nonsense regarding Pienaar and his contract situation, or anyone?s contract situation for that matter. I?m not naïve enough to think that I know anything about what goes on behind closed doors during contract negotiations and for that reason alone I don?t hold anything against any player in these situations. I?ve nothing against Pienaar for not signing a new contract and committing his future to Everton.

Yes, Everton have been good for him and he for Everton but what he is doing is certainly no crime. He?s simply weighing up his options for his future and if he wants more money, so be it, it?s his choice and if Everton don?t believe they can afford it or they don?t feel he warrants it then fine, it?s best for both parties if he moves on.

Everyone should have a high opinion of themselves. I believe that I do a better job than colleagues of mine on the same wage and even higher salaries, it doesn?t mean I?m right or wrong but unfortunately it?s not my decision so I live with it and for what it?s worth, I?m generally happy with it so I choose to stay where I am. If I wasn?t, my choices are that I look to get a pay rise where I am or I look to earn more money elsewhere. It?s no different for footballers!! It?s an easy get-out to call him a greedy bastard. It may well be the case but I don?t know the bloke so I won?t tag him with that label.

As a player, I like him, not a great player but a better-than-average one. I share the same frustrations as most regarding his final ball and lack of goals but what he brings to the team more than anyone (apart from Baines maybe) is movement . He is one of few that actually makes runs and creates space for others with his movement and that is the one thing we?d miss the most.

I also like his attitude to the game, he always wants the ball, he?s one of few that can run with the ball and turn defence into attack with a quick turn and dribble, he tackles, he tracks back, he doesn?t hide and most importantly he has a great footballing relationship with Baines and their partnership is a joy to watch at times. To say this is all down to Baines is unfair.

For me, the positives far out weigh the negatives so I hope he stays but if he does decides to go, fine with me. Good luck and thanks for all your effort. He?s not irreplaceable but it?ll be of more benefit to Everton if he does decide to stay.

Lee Jamieson
16   Posted 22/12/2010 at 10:21:23

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I agree that Osman is not as skillful as Pienaar but on Monday night our first goal came from a break in which Osman was very much involved. I also think he made a few tackles during the match.
Ray Roche
17   Posted 22/12/2010 at 10:58:58

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How many of Baines assists came from a Pienaar pass to Baines in the first place?
Brian Lawlor
18   Posted 22/12/2010 at 10:59:36

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Pienaar is going to Spurs
Chris Briddon
19   Posted 22/12/2010 at 11:01:43

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Brian - I don't know where you get your info from, but according to Pienaars agent the other night, he is NOT going to Spurs, and will wait until later in the season before he decides where he goes. He loves it at Everton, but wants to win something before he retires.

The only way he could be going to Spurs is if Everton sell him, which isn't going to happen. He can't sign a pre-contract agreement with them until June!
Brian Waring
20   Posted 22/12/2010 at 11:13:58

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Chris I may be wrong, but I'm sure I read somewhere, that Pienaar can start dealing with possible suitors from January.
Chris Briddon
21   Posted 22/12/2010 at 11:16:44

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He can only talk to European clubs in January but NOT English clubs - that has to wait until the season has finished.

Theoretically he could sign a pre-contract agreement with Bayern or Barca etc but NOT with Spurs or anybody in the Premier league
Brian Lawlor
22   Posted 22/12/2010 at 11:35:50

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Chris - 'Officially' he cannot 'talk' but what do you think his agent has been dling for the last 12 months, talking to clubs. Are you really that naive to think that his agent has not spoken to anyone despite the fact that his client (Pienaar) has only 6 months left on his contract? Do you also think that his agent is going to admit talking to Spurs?

just like I said back in November 2009 about his contract demands and I was mocked for it. it's in the archives. My source of information just like back them comes from an agent. Dismiss it if you want but 1) he is definitley leaving 2) his agent has been promised a huge signing on fee from Spurs and that is his preferred destination and they have verbally agreed.
KPR Williams
23   Posted 22/12/2010 at 11:45:11

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Spurs = Bale = bench
if he's happy with that then it says a lot about the lad...
Charles King
24   Posted 22/12/2010 at 12:19:56

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He's a good player but we won without him and Arteta.
No one's indispensable.
KPR Williams
25   Posted 22/12/2010 at 12:31:12

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is this timmy havin a dig at the absent superstars?
Jimmy Hacking
26   Posted 22/12/2010 at 13:40:27

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"Could it be that Pienaar's lack of commitment is having a Lescott-like effect on the team, on the quiet?"

I never ever believed for a second that even Lescott had a Lescott-like effect on the team.

They are grown men, not the f**king Borg collective. You can't play shite and then blame the attitude of another player, its pathetic.
Jimmy Hacking
27   Posted 22/12/2010 at 13:43:25

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Oh, and I hope he stays.
Chris Briddon
28   Posted 22/12/2010 at 14:09:08

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On NSNO there was a guy who was watching his agent on TV on Monday night before the City game (his agent was a pundit type on a SA footy show).
I have no doubt the agent would like a move and a big pay day, but I am not sure Pienaar is that keen and certainly isn't giving the impression so at the moment.

The main comment was

"His response was that all the media speculation is not true, to start with he can only talk to other overseas clubs in January, he can only talk to other Premiership clubs at the end of the season (this was news to me) so he is not about to jeopardize his agent license, further more he said that Steven is in love with Everton and has a really special bond with the manager and the fans which he is crazy about. He then went on to say that he is keeping his options open and him staying at Everton is highly possible, he said the key factor in his decision would be is that he will be 29 soon and he will have to ask himself, ?am I at a club that has the possibility of winning something? that could well be the possibility at Everton come the end of the season if the squad is improved and he feels the team is strong enough to win a cup. He then went on to say that there are only certain teams he can go to, and that he is not the type of player that is going to be wanted by the likes of Barca, Real and the Milan teams, he will be probably be sought by the lesser champions league teams in Europe, that is the reality of stock which he is honest about. He then ended the topic on Steven by saying again that ?come the end of the season, if Steven has seen enough evidence that Everton can present a serious challenge for a cup, he will stay?

I must be honest guys , I got the impression from the sighs in his voice and the tone in which he was speaking that he wishes Steven would have made a bit more waves that he wanted a big move and give a come and get me signal to other clubs. He did not show any enthusiasm in his voice when talking about the possibility of him staying at Everton, if you know what I mean; it?s he like sounded disappointed."

link below to find it,9142.0.html
Brian Lawlor
29   Posted 22/12/2010 at 15:52:08

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Chris ? I hate to disappoint you but Father Christmas doesn't exist. Stop being so naive.

Piennaar is off to Spurs. Mark my words.
Chris Briddon
30   Posted 23/12/2010 at 08:54:38

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Brian ? If you know something I don't then fair enough... but you get an awful lot of people claiming to be 'In the know' when actually they know nothing at all.

Just because you believe a friend of a friend who is losely connected doesn't automatically make your source of information any more reliable.

Brian Lawlor
31   Posted 23/12/2010 at 13:50:24

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Chris - I never said it was a friend of a friend.

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