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Time to admit some players have had their day

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Well, after watching the West Ham game, then I have to say something ? that the time as come to accept that some players are not good enough to wear the Everton shirt anymore.

I have been a true blue supporter for 38 years and love this club with all my heart. Having put up with the lows, and too few highs in my time, has never stopped me giving my total backing to the club. To watch my club play too many negative games does hurt, when we have some real class and talent in our midfield. The combination of, Baines and Pienaar works well and the left side works really well and we could have the same effect down the right side if we had a decent right back. Phil Neville now lacks any pace, can't cross a ball and does not link up well when attacking. We need a quality right back.

The central defensive pairing of Jagielka and Distin is a good enough pairing with maybe someone on loan to cover for injury as I don't think Heitinga is committed to our club enough. We have two quality defensive midfielders in Rodwell and Fellaini to do a good job in that area.

As usual, the worry is the strikeforce, as Saha has passed his sell-by date and he has the psychological barrier in his head of always pulling up injured. The biggest disappointment is the Yak, who is slow, idle and can't be bothered with really knuckling down to play for Everton. He can't be bothered to lose the weight he needs to get more mobile, he can't be bothered to get a sweat on when he comes on, and he's a waste of space when he's on the pitch.

Beckford has not had the time to settle in, but I have seen him for Leeds and he was an idle player and needs balls passed into feet when on the run, or he is not as effective. I would like to have seen Vaughan given another chance before we get rid of a player who as pace and quality (a pity he gets injured).

And please stay, Pienaar, as we will not get a player as good as he as been. I just wish we can go on a run and get the confidence back but as usual I don't see where the goals are going to come from.
Dave Robinson, Mansfield     Posted 28/12/2010 at 19:49:05

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Tom Bowers
1   Posted 28/12/2010 at 23:23:20

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Agreed 100%, Dave. After a great win at Eastlands, we come in fresh against a West Ham team who played 2 days ago and we could only salvage a draw. We came out with 2 strikers against City and scored early but what does Moyes do? ? he plays one striker today against a mediocre team and 5 across the middle... a formation designed to get only a point. He also plays Hibbert out of position and we suffer again.

Shortly after the own-goal, Hibbert made a weak headed clearance in the box to a Hammer but luckily they messed it up; otherwise, we would have been 2 down.

Is Duffy not yet up to it although he was on the bench? We haven't played two good games in a row all season. Moyes has lost the plot and we need a change soon.

Andy Peers
2   Posted 28/12/2010 at 23:29:51

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I agree with you 100%. I have no idea who Moyes would sign as a Striker but if he is looking for cheap then I think he could get good value out of Keane and Bellamy. I know both of those Ex Red-Shite Strikers probably hate us but it seems like our current strikers hate us too.
Brian Waring
3   Posted 28/12/2010 at 23:42:43

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Moyes said, that if he had played one of the strikers who were on the bench, he would have had to leave out, either Pienaar, Arteta or Rodwell ? WTF....?
Danny Broderick
4   Posted 29/12/2010 at 00:26:00

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Dixie Dean would struggle to score in this Everton team.

Davie, take the handbrake off, please!!! We were playing a team at the bottom of the league, a team that also played 48 hours previously, and yet you played for a draw!

Not starting the game with a recognised striker is criminal. It doesn't matter if they are all out of form, just by having someone further up field increases the chances of scoring. It would also create space for someone like Cahill to take advantage of.

Oh, and what is the point of bringing on Beckford in the 90th minute and Billy in the 93rd? The only logical answer is to timewaste. Bearing in mind who we were up against, and the fact we need the points, I find that a startling lack of ambition...

John Daley
5   Posted 29/12/2010 at 00:33:21

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Couple of baffling after match comments from Moyes:

(1) ?I thought we got into good positions but we didn't deliver the crosses, we hit the first defender too often and we didn't make the right pass. That's nothing to do with creating chances, that's to do with the people who are out to create them".

(2) ?My best players were midfield players, Rodwell, Arteta, Pienaar and I couldn?t leave one of them out to accommodate one of the strikers as I couldn?t see that happening as my better players were on the pitch.?

Paul Davis
6   Posted 29/12/2010 at 01:23:12

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Good evening everybody. I have just registered at ToffeeWeb, which I read frquently as an avid Blue.

Mr Danny Broderick, I agree with you wholeheartedly. Personally I am sick of seeing a manager with no bottle ? and that, is Mr David Moyes. The simple fact is we cannot score up front, because there is no pace in this team, and we only ever play with one up-front ? even at home against so-called 'poorer' teams. Any forward at Everton has no chance as he is inevitably isolated.

It was a disgrace to not play a striker against a team as poor as West Ham, which is fighting for its survival and has 10 players not playing at the moment. Even Carlton Cole is not fully fit ? he can only play 45 minutes of any game at the moment.

So many times do we say that the opposition 'was there for the taking' . Our defensive style of play means that we play too deeply, and do not actually ATTACK.

Whilst I'm at it, why is/was Hibbert ever in this team? He is/was always arguably the worst player in the Premier League, and is and always has been a complete liability. He should have been shipped out years ago.

We bought Gueye and Silva ? where are they? For God's sake, Moyes, give them a go ? and let's see some pace in the side.

Sega Kana
7   Posted 29/12/2010 at 01:33:09

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Utter nonsense from Moyes. We all know about his favs and loyalty to certain players but this too much to swallow.

Why he changed the team that won against City? Well, as he said himself, it's to accomodate HIS best players. Arteta's form has dipped so bad that he doesn't deserve a starting place while Pienaar is playing at 80% I presume to preserve himself for a move.

And Hibbert and CB?? You'll saw the mismatch with him and Cole? Moyes has been doing this for so long that it is sickening... players not in their natural positions! Why Duffy wans't playing is a mystery because how else does Moyes plan to develope the boy without playing him?

We should've gone on and played with 2 strikers cause that's what we ended the match with, albeit the injury time. I appreciate what Moyes has done for us but he has lost the plot. I think Chris Hughton would do a better job with the players we've got. Time for change. I'm frustrated that we're not played to our fullest potential by our manager.

Joseph Elworthy
8   Posted 29/12/2010 at 03:07:19

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Arteta should be ashamed of his performance. He was never a speed-demon (or a tackler, for that matter), but now his skills are on the wane ? horrible distribution, aimless dribbling, and a horrible attitude!
Les Martin
9   Posted 29/12/2010 at 04:13:53

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A team for the taking and we leave all 3 strikers on the bench and Beckford comes on at 89 minutes, what a terrible and disappointing attitude.
Garry Bennett
10   Posted 29/12/2010 at 05:56:58

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Hi Everyone, this is my first post.

I have been a Blue all my life, my father took me to watch the Blues beat Stoke 2-0 at home, it was my first game, it was 1964, I was 5 years old.

Like may others on this site, I have experienced the highs and lows of our great club, but last night was absolutely shocking. How a manager can field a side with no strikers is beyond me. If they were sick, injured or on a deathbed, then he would have an excuse.

My father must be turning in his grave at the standard of football, we are subjected to on a weekly basis. The only good thing that we have going for us, is that Hodgson is the manager of that lot next door.

How can these so-called professional footballers say that they are professional? Most of them don't put in a shift, the Yak is a totally waste of space when he does play; Arteta is playing with blinkers and lead boots; Hibbert, well enough said about him already... I can go and vent my spleen, but its not going to help matters.

I don't have the answers; a lot of people think that they do... the only thing I would suggest, is, since the current "first team" squad players aren't cutting it, give youth a chance ? they will play with fire in their bellies and a zeal that is missing from that pitiful lot that I watched last night.

Iain Love
11   Posted 29/12/2010 at 07:50:38

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Neville & Arteta where woeful last night, Neville slowed the play down constantly giving Coleman no forward momentum and Arteta was shown up all night by Parker who was everywhere.
Tactics ???? what tactics ???? .
Very poor very very poor.
Guy Hastings
12   Posted 29/12/2010 at 08:01:26

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My best players were midfield players, Rodwell, Arteta, Pienaar and I couldn?t leave one of them out to accommodate one of the strikers as I couldn?t see that happening as my better players were on the pitch.?

So that's why he replaced Rodwell with Yakubu, then.
Kunal Desai
13   Posted 29/12/2010 at 08:00:20

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There are about half a dozen players that should be shown the exit door but the question is which clubs are really going to come in and make reasonable bids for them maybe with the exception of Heitinga. The Yak would probably fetch about £3M max. We'd be lucky to get half the amount back for Bily boy. Proof that Moyes doesn't deserve further funds to invest in the squad as it just gets spunked.
Russ Quinlan
14   Posted 29/12/2010 at 08:19:35

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Like many others on here, I have been a Bluenose since I was a kid and have supported them since 1963 through thick and thin.

When Moyes first came in, he was a breath of fresh air, his teams went out and took games to the opposition and, despite the lack of quality of players he had to pick from, they actually played some relatively good stuff. The optimism we had was tangible but over the years his true defensive background has taken over and now I am embarrassed to watch us.

Yesterday summed up what a lot of us think, he has assembled a good enough squad but he hasn't got a bloody clue what to do with them. Arteta has been crap all season, yet he walks back into the team; Cahill up front on his own when we have 3 strikers available ? fair enough last season when there were none available but not now for gods sake, and against West soddin Ham!

The team, as a whole look shit scared of going forward in case the Boss tells them to behave and get back to defensive positions. We have all seen glimpses of what they are capable of, first 10 minutes at Eastlands for example. But then its back into the shell and retreat to defense.

Beckford needs time but he also needs games, WTF is he coming on with 1 minute to go for, just as a timewasting exercise along with Bily??? You can see their faces as they come on, god knows what they must be thinking at the 'tactics'. Let's be honest, they are not tactics, they are the sort of thing that happens in amateur leagues.

The players just look like they have no confidence in their own abilities and the only reason for that is it's getting taken out of them by the tactics they are being told to play. Sit deep, play on the break and if you dare try to play open attractive football then you'll get hooked.

I am sick of it, I am losing interest in the Club I have loved for over 40 years. We are destined to 'survive' in the Premier League when we should be pushing at the top.

Look at the way Blackpool play, another away win yesterday... have they got better players than us? NO! Have they got a manager who gets the best out his players? YES! Have they got a manager who tells them to go for it? YES. That's exactly what we want, not necessarily Holloway but someone who can instill believe into this team ? because DM certainly can't.

Ray Roche
15   Posted 29/12/2010 at 09:18:28

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"My best players were midfield players, Rodwell, Arteta, Pienaar and I couldn?t leave one of them out to accommodate one of the strikers as I couldn?t see that happening as my better players were on the pitch.?

What would Moyes have done if Osman had been fit? Who could he leave out to accomodate his love-child?
Eddie Maidens
16   Posted 29/12/2010 at 09:35:29

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It is time to go for David Moyes. The players don`t give a fuck anymore. The second half was a shocker


We are boring,have no clue, and the manager is trying to win the game with substitutes he brings on in injury time.

Cahill will be gone for a month? there is no player on the bench with confidence, which david moyes has ruined.


Sorry for my bad english iam just a dutch wenker
Mark Fitzgerald
17   Posted 29/12/2010 at 10:20:54

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Have to agree with a lot of the comments here. Baffling trying to understand Moyes's thinking at times. Strikers not scoring for the team, then why leave them all on the bench against a team in the relegation zone where they can prove nothing?

And why is Moyes reluctant to give youth a chance? Why not Duffy at CB? Hibbert getting a lot of stick but he is no CB (some would say not a FB either). When Moyes was forced into playing Coleman, the lad has been a revelation. Surely there are others who deserve a chance if the first teamers are underperforming.

As for the transfer window, same old broke EFC. So sell to buy. Heitinga uncommitted: Sell. Pienaar not willing to sign a new contract: sell. Vaughan, Yak, Bily, etc not considered good enough: Sell. Though the last group may make a valid point about the quality of service, tactics, etc.

But to end on a positive note, for all the poor football we've seen this season, it's still December and we are only seven points off sixth place and sitting above the RS. It's not all bad!

Richard Dodd
18   Posted 29/12/2010 at 10:50:42

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Well said, Mark. With so few games lost and a good away record, Moyes has set up a firm base for his customary second-half run-in. Disappointing that our strikers are, I believe Davey will address this with a loan signing in the next week or so ? then see us go!
Jimmy Hacking
19   Posted 29/12/2010 at 11:10:56

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I agree with Richard #18, having also been delighted with our first half of the season. Now the other 19 premier league clubs think we are utter shite again, we can shock them with a few scrappy wins! I love it when a plan comes together. 9th place here we come! COYB
Luke Dunn
20   Posted 29/12/2010 at 11:18:35

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Arteta was poor, has been all year except for one game against the shite. The future is Fellaini & Rodwell, and get two decent strikers. Neville & Hibbert are simply not good enough ? move them upstairs.

West Ham are poor and will still go down, they were there for the taking. Why bother taking 3 strikers along when you only bring them on for a few minutes?

Maybe play the whole of January as a 4-3-3 as Cahill will be gone ? surely there is nothing to loose???

Andrew Clare
21   Posted 29/12/2010 at 11:18:38

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Very, very disappointing!

It has already been said but I feel that it must be said again. Even Messi would look inadequate in our team.

If our forwards played for almost any of the other teams in the Premier League they would be on 'double figures' for goals scored by now. Acquiring another striker wouldn't make a 'blind bit of difference' to our team.

Moyes is so negative! West Ham are a very poor team and Moyes picks a defensive line-up when we should have played with complete confidence to win the game.

Moyes's attitude seeps through to the players who as a result have no confidence and therefore do not go for 'the kill'. How many points have we thrown away because of this approach. I bet our strikers just can't wait to leave!

The reason we are hardly mentioned on the dreadful Sky channels including the awful Talk Sport and that we are shown at the end of MotD is because we are very mediocre and very boring and unadventurous.

Time for a change.

Mark Murphy
22   Posted 29/12/2010 at 11:46:01

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Tell you what, Ray, #15, Osman would have done a lot better than half of that lot last night! Personally, I'd rather 11 Ossies than the numerous professional employees we have given shirts (and over-lucrative contracts) to!

But still, this team is better than its tactics allow it to be. Sorry, but I've had enough negative shite ? Moyes Out!
George McKane
23   Posted 29/12/2010 at 11:48:34

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Not only some players past their sell by date ? in my opinion, Moyes and his footballing ideas are well past theirs.

If it was his 2nd or 3rd year, I would still be behind him but it's not and he seems to me to be going nowhere: no ideas, no tactics, nothing. We are drifting, just going along to nowhere.

While admiring some optimism, I wonder what some writers are basing on in their beliefs that we will somehow drive on and upward in the second half of the season. Sounds like August predictions all over again to me...

Fed up with manager and players telling us that the next match will be turning point, and the next, and the next and so on. Be quiet and actually do it on the pitch then I might believe that things will change. Right now, I have no faith left in Moyes.

Steve Cotton
24   Posted 29/12/2010 at 12:19:55

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Gary Bennett, that Stoke game was my first game also at the same age... are you sure you are not me in disguise?
Norman Merrill
25   Posted 29/12/2010 at 12:23:15

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While agreeing with many comments, I also feel that with Tim Cahill off to play for his country, David Moyes will now have to change his tactics and attitude.

There is no doubting that Mikel Arteta was a fine player but, since the bad injury he had a season or so ago, and coincidentally since signing his new contract, he is not the player we loved.

In one of the earlier comments, it was said that Moyes could not leave Arteta out to have a extra striker; well the manager must be watching a different Arteta to the fans. In my opinion, he does not tackle back, he very really playes thru balls, prefering the crab-like style of sideways or back. I would never accuse him of not trying, but he leaves a lot to be desired. He was of course involved with the build up to the goal, but his general play has suffered somewhat.

David Moyes surely must have some ideas to what we are going to do without our top scorer, but I am fed up with the regular tactic of throwing three strikers on for the last couple of minutes.

Andrew Laird
26   Posted 29/12/2010 at 12:45:05

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Mr Moyes will never change his approach to football, unfortunately we are stuck with him and his unfathomable decisions. This is a man who set up his team to not attack relegation fodder who were missing 10 of their 25 man squad and yet was "disappointed" we did not win! I would ask you all to put yourself in the place of the players who are not getting any game time and ask why the fuck you would work for this man as a stop-gap until his favourites are back? Disgraceful.
Andrew Laird
27   Posted 29/12/2010 at 12:56:50

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Norman, what have you seen during the last 8 seasons that makes you think Moyes will change his tactics or formation? Cahill will be missing so he will either put Fellaini further forward or play Saha. There will be NO change in tactics or formation the ONLY change will be personnel.
David Booth
28   Posted 29/12/2010 at 13:13:38

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It occurs to me that the team was changed ? with Cahill on his own up front ? to accommodate Arteta. He has become undroppable.

I wonder... what did David Moyes see in his performance, or indeed any of his performances this season, that makes him think he is still worth a place?

He disrupted the balance of the team, overloaded the midfield, added nothing whatsoever creatively and saw us negate Tim Cahill completely by making him the centre of attention for their two centre-backs.

If we, as fans, can see it, why is a manager who is paid millions of pounds a year unable to?

Come on Moyesy ? wake up and play your best team ? not your favourites.

They're costing us points and you your popularity.
Norman Merrill
29   Posted 29/12/2010 at 13:04:05

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Andrew, The frightening thing Is I don't see him changing his tactics. When the cameras went on him and his two cohorts last nght during the last ten minutes, they looked more puzzled than me, to what was going on.

A big problem is that he has NO-ONE to answer to in the boardroom. Fans are coming on here, saying he may bring someone in next week... to do what? Warm the bench.

Brian Waring
30   Posted 29/12/2010 at 13:37:22

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Or Mark (#17) you could say it's halfway through the season, we are 3pts above a relegation place, or 7pts above the bottom placed team in the prem.

Same points and goal difference as the Shite, but they have 2 games in hand on us, one of them games being tonight against Wolves, who are bottom of the league. Wonder if the Shite will set up to play for a draw???
Michael Upton
31   Posted 29/12/2010 at 13:34:59

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So disappointed.

I have defended Moyes to the hilt on many occasions, sometimes probably beyond what was deserved, but even I can't defend starting without a single striker against a West Ham side which has been asking for relegation all season.

Saha, Beckford and Yakubu have mustered barely a handful of signs of inspiration all season but what does it say about the manager's attitude to them and his hopes of helping them back to form when he won't even pick one of them for a key game against a side who should be whipping boys but might yet be relegation rivals?

It's ironic to read for once (rightly) about an Everton team over-elaborating in front of goal - where are the moans about "hoofball" now - but we do seem to be turning into Arsenal lite.
It's not surprising we can't score goals when there's not a SINGLE STRIKER ON THE PITCH.

I do fear for our strike power when Cahill sods off for a month.

As I said, DM has done plenty for this club but even my patience is wearing very thin now.
Tom Bowers
32   Posted 29/12/2010 at 13:50:10

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Moyes has lost it and Kenwright has to show some bottle and get shut. Some other managers may be available right now so this may be a good time -- O'Neill, Allardyce or even Peter Reid.

What we see is what we will always get from Moyes so let's not expect anything to change whilst he is here. Could he have not played Rodwell in defence and brought in an extra striker? He is just too negative. I just hope he doesn't play Hibbert against the big Stoke players on Saturday.

Al Reddish
33   Posted 29/12/2010 at 14:11:18

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O Neill, Fat Sam and Peter Reid. Are you having a laugh!!!! Moyes needs a big fucking rocket up his arse at the moment, or maybe a forward thinking right hand man. He has many faults and his stubborness seems to be costing him his reputation as well as the club points, but give me the red haired one any day over the three you have just named.
I do agree with what you said about the Stoke game though, and I fear that an out of form Arteta will be too weak for a very strong Stoke side.
I was quite confident that Cahill on his own up front might have worked but in hindsight, what better team than West Ham to have given at least one of his non scoring forwards a chance to prove us all wrong and give it a good go. Bily as well for that matter, in place of a very piss poor Arteta. Oh well, there's always the F.A. Cup!!!
James Stewart
34   Posted 29/12/2010 at 14:36:37

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Just when Moyes pulls one out of the bag against City, he then goes and shoots himself in the shoot. All the failings of Moyes were out in force last night. Awful awful tactics from the start. Set up to contain against a side in the bottom 3. Cahill offers nothing as a lone striker so it literally was a 4-6-0 formation.

It was one of the most embarrassing moments of being an Evertonian as I was watching the game with a load of Arsenal fans who just laughed at the set up. Pathetic. If that is repeated, he should be sacked on the spot.

Andrew Laird
35   Posted 29/12/2010 at 15:39:35

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100% agreement, Norman. The overriding factor is that he doesn't have to answer to anyone and the staff he has surrounded himself with would not dare question him either, as they are making some very easy money from the club as well.
Richard Harris
36   Posted 30/12/2010 at 02:39:30

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Richard Dodd wrote "With so few games lost and a good away record, Moyes has set up a firm base for his customary second-half run-in. Disappointing that our strikers are, I believe Davey will address this with a loan signing in the next week or so ? then see us go!" Four games won out of nineteen; I'd rather have seen a few more losses and a few more wins than the safety first dross that Moyes persists with!

Why does Moyes wait half a season before getting started? Is he giving the other teams a head start so that we have a fairer league rather than starting well, ending better and actually winning something. Finishing 5th, 6th or 7th or getting into the Champions league qualifying round is not winning anything.

What is the point of qualifying for Europe if we don't build on that success? Kenwright and Moyes have reached their limit... and who will this mystery striker be who no-one else picks up on and who has a wage we can afford?

Matt Garen
37   Posted 30/12/2010 at 11:11:45

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This is not a defence of Moyes whatsoever. He has got many weaknesses and lacks bottle to make decisions. However, the word "mental" has been banded about on here a few times. I'll use it again obviously in my own opinion but If anyone thinks that with the anyone other than Whiskey Nose, Mourinho or Wenger would do a better, more consistent job over the past 8 or 9 years, then yes, you are mental and as mad as a frog in a sock.
Michael Kenrick
38   Posted 30/12/2010 at 15:15:46

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Matt, talk about mental... the past 8 or 9 years are done and dusted. No-one is talking about having a different manager for the last 8 or 9 years!!! That's patently ridiculous!

Turn around, will ya, and look forward. We're talking about a change going forward from here.
Andrew Gaule
39   Posted 30/12/2010 at 16:47:26

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I think that the issue is not so much with the strike force as with the midfield. It's easy to blame the strikers but they are simply not getting service in the box.

Until Arteta, Fellaini, Pienaar and Coleman really get their act together, then we won't score any goals.

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