I think the West Ham game might just have done it for me. The starting line-up defied belief. Hibbert at centre back? Why not just get rid of Duffy, Beckford, Yakubu. Fuck it I can't be bothered with analysing the shite...
Here's the question: What should a supporter do when their club is chaired by an incompetent and managed by a man for whom one has only utter contempt? It costs me £300 plus to attend a game. I've seen two this season and hoped to see another three. Not now.
I really feel that I'm not prepared to spend any more money while Moyes and Kenwright destroy this club. Kenwright is beyond words. For Moyes I have this:
Overrated, overpaid, inept, dour, utterly bereft of imagination, negative... and,i t hurts to say this, completely devoid of dignity and integrity.
I feel guilty and disloyal but what else is left? Go there and condone this shite or say enough is enough?
It is my honest view that no professional manager in English football would have our squad in a worse position than Moyes has.
Who will replace him?
Anyone... fucking anyone.
Andy Crooks, Posted 30/12/2010 at 19:24:10
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1 Posted 30/12/2010 at 20:37:49
2 Posted 30/12/2010 at 20:46:14
Utter contempt for David Moyes? No dignity and integrity?
I suggest you save yourself the ferry fare mate if you feel this strongly.
We are a good team with a good manager. I agree, the tactics were suspect on Tuesday... and I feel we are really negative at times... but you cannot question the integrity or dignity of David Moyes.
3 Posted 30/12/2010 at 21:09:15
You'd think we were rock bottom after reading that.
4 Posted 30/12/2010 at 21:05:25
Some will tell me it was because he was disgruntled with BK, and wanted to know where he stood; funny how all that soon dissappeared with the huge pay rise.
5 Posted 30/12/2010 at 21:18:38
You'd think we were rock bottom after reading that."
We're 5 points behind 7th. The exact same number of points we are from being rock bottom of the league.
You're obviously an eternal optimist.
6 Posted 30/12/2010 at 21:24:08
7 Posted 30/12/2010 at 21:26:16
8 Posted 30/12/2010 at 21:14:04
I've stopped going now; this season was the test and it's undiluted crap.
Cards on table: I've always been suspicious of the Moyes myth but he's the Everton manager so he had the benefit of the doubt ? even though we've been up and down like a whore's draws with him.
No more for me: the telly pundits, journos, PS2 boys on here can say what they want ? it's shite.
9 Posted 30/12/2010 at 21:33:24
Unfortunately, he's failed miserably and seems to respect the opposition more than his own players' ability. That's not acceptable in my eyes.
10 Posted 30/12/2010 at 21:58:50
11 Posted 30/12/2010 at 22:28:09
12 Posted 30/12/2010 at 22:33:37
13 Posted 30/12/2010 at 22:39:47
Amazed you haven't had the usual suspects out with the "How dare you, so many LMAs blah blah blah. As John said, a few losses from the bottom of the league... equally as five points off seventh; trouble with analogies is you have to look at recent form (this season), which is more likely?
14 Posted 30/12/2010 at 23:28:52
I really don't know how long we are supposed to keep making excuses for him. Unless we make a couple of significant moves next week or so, then we have to resign ouselves to the fact that we will see the second half of the season much the same as the first.
If we hadn't beaten City then we could maybe only look at the Derby match as the only highlight of the season so far. Happy New Year!
15 Posted 31/12/2010 at 00:00:51
I say we will finish nearer to 7th place than bottom of the league. If we finish nearer to the bottom than 7th then I will donate £100 quid to the charity of your choice. if we finish nearer to 7th than bottom, will you do the same?
16 Posted 31/12/2010 at 00:06:13
But you voiced exactly how you feel in some strong words, and is pretty much exactly what I said at the start of the season when I wrote I can't invest any more money or time and emotion on Everton. Moyes has lost me this season. Despite the problems I have with someone like Redknapp, he sets his players out to rip apart the opposition. Sometimes it doesn't work, but he will always go out there looking for goals and you see the result.
No other manager would set a team out against West Ham without a striker. That was the lowest point in all my years of following this team. I've only watched a handful of games this season and unfortunately that was one. I don't feel guilty ? I feel sane. Blindly following and apologizing for a football club or manager is the same as those politics addicts who fall in love with a candidate and will never admit when they are wrong. It's unhealthy.
When Moyes said his players lack belief, nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, HE is the one who lacks belief in them, and as someone already said, it's very sad when the manager shows more respect for the players of West Ham than he does belief in a fully fit squad of Everton players.
17 Posted 31/12/2010 at 00:10:34
You may be right, mate... but look at what's happening: loads of draws, inept tactics, draws with Wigan, home defeats to Newcastle and West Brom etc.
I ask, WHERE IS THE NEXT WIN COMING FROM?
18 Posted 31/12/2010 at 01:33:56
19 Posted 31/12/2010 at 01:40:28
Does anybody else notice that nothing is ever HIS fault? Well just a quick note for you, Davey lad ? it IS YOUR fault.
Having a preffered tactic, 4-5-1, is fine but there has to be a backup plan, eg, a Plan B. But Moyes just doesn't have one ?unless you count panic with 10 minutes to go and throw all 3 strikers on!
It's always been the same with his transfer dealings too.
20 Posted 31/12/2010 at 01:49:01
Do I think we'll go down? No... but it'll have more to do with the players realising they're the ones to get us out of this mess, than any change in the way Moyes thinks.
21 Posted 31/12/2010 at 06:08:32
Many is the time I wish he'd give someone a good tongue-lashing on camera and damn the consequences.
22 Posted 31/12/2010 at 06:53:30
I think you are wrong to issue that challenge to Gavin. Why ? Because I did the same myself at the start of the season, I later realised I`d railroaded a fellow blue into betting against his own team; luckily he accepted my offer to call it off.
I tend to side with your view on where the team finishes, but I ask you to withdraw the challenge: it's double-edged.
If it's accepted, the best Gavin ? a fellow blue ? can hope for is a very hollow victory, one he doesn't want.
If its not accepted, he looks like he lacks the courage of his conviction.
Donate to your charities by all means, but remember we ALL want the same thing here.
Andy Crooks: Get yourself down from that ledge lad. You support the club, not the manager.
23 Posted 31/12/2010 at 09:38:54
I go the game with a crowd of 10 to 12 lads and meet up with many more from over our side and the amount of them who do not look forward to going to the game in the pub beforehand is shocking, as is the amount who leave early, sick of the shite and in need of the comfort of a pint, ? is that what watching us is meant to be about?
The thing is, if we had a shite squad, you could except it... but we have a squad which should be challenging the top six and yet we have to endure team selections like that one at West Ham.
I am sick of his stubborness and blaming everyone bar himself, all that shite about him for Utd has gone to his head and he no doubt believes his own hype.
He has done a fairly good job; nothing more, nothing less, for every Manger of the Year award, there is an Everton Worst Record of something or other. And for every victory over City or whoever comes a Shrewsbury or whoever.
24 Posted 31/12/2010 at 09:46:26
I posted a list of manager's I'd be happy to see replace Moyes on the Tony Marsh thread. Some of them are no great shakes, but all would do a better job than go to the worst side in the league and play with no strikers. It's the straw that broke the camels back for me.
We can criticise Kenwright till the cows come home but he has given him enough room to build a side capable of 4th. When you get to 4th, then you can really build to go higher.
Some of his decision-making this season has been beyond shocking. I think a parting of ways is for the best at the end of this season, regardless of the decent run we will no doubt have at some point.
Each season is 38 games long and, over 38 games, we will have underperformed for two consecutive seasons.
25 Posted 31/12/2010 at 10:10:34
I have been feeling a similar way to you this season. As someone who was born and raised in London, I have spent most of my life as an "away fan". I get to all the London games I can get tickets for (thank you, ESCLA) and try to make it up to Goodison two or three times a season.
I have only recently left university and had the disposable income to allow me to make journeys up to Liverpool. However, my trips to Goodison have been so invariably miserable that I struggle to see the point anymore. My first game at Goodison saw us lose at home to Portsmouth in what was the worst performance I think I have ever seen from an Everton team, worse even than the 4-0 at Selhurst Park. Quite frankly, my trips up haven't really improved since then and I have seen only one win at Goodison in the past 5 years, the 2-1 over Fulham last season which was a meaningless game anyway by that stage of the season.
This year for his birthday, I took my father up to Liverpool for a weekend away and to watch the Arsenal game. We were totally shite and Moyes was afraid and clueless, as he usually is in the "big" games. As we sat on the train home surrounded by Arsenal fans, I turned to my dad and said "Why do we even bother?" An Evertonian of 56 years, he struggled to come up with an answer. Before West Ham away last season, it had been 13 years since I had witnessed an Everton victory in the flesh. I appreciate this is partly bad luck and partly a lack of attendance on my part, but it's starting to get fucking ridiculous.
This season, I have attended six matches and seen two defeats and four draws. The football on show has been truly dire (apart from the Chelsea match). I will be going to the match at the Emirates in February in the vain hope that we'll go one better than we did last year but, when we inevitably go one, two, three goals down, I won't be the slightest bit surprised. I think that's the worst thing; when I go to a game and we play shite and start to lose, I struggle to even get angry, it's just all so bloody predictable.
You can feel the atmosphere has changed amongst the fans too. I'm wary of being overly nostalgic about one's childhood memories, but back in the early to mid-nineties when I was attending matches, I remember the atmosphere and chanting being awe-inspiring. Chanting at 3-0 down, roaring the team on.
At Goodison against City a couple of seasons ago I remember hearing opposition fans for the first time chanting "Your support is fucking shit". Just a one-off on a bad day I told myself. Then, against Arsenal this season, as I sat in the Park End, their fans were deafening and ours were despondent, silent. My mate in the Arsenal section was equally stunned ? he'd only ever seen our away fans at the Emirates, drowning out 60,000 latte drinkers.
I knew West Ham away was a new nadir when I heard the chant again, directed at us from less than a thousand deafening West Ham fans ? even our hardcore away fans had lost the will to chant.
This is on you, Moyes. In seventeen years of attending matches as an away fan, I had never heard this. Moyes, and the team, are slowly wearing down even our most loyal and vocal supporters. Fucking shameful.
26 Posted 31/12/2010 at 10:38:33
Prior to the Birmingham game, my 7-year-old (who has a season ticket with me) actually asked if he could go with mum shopping to the Trafford Centre instead as the match was rubbish.
27 Posted 31/12/2010 at 10:46:21
28 Posted 31/12/2010 at 11:21:01
If he left and came back with another team, he would be guaranteed a warm reception back at Everton, as I believe that, with the benefit of a bit of time to reflect, we could overcome the gripes that we are currently voicing and realise that overall he has done an excellent job at Everton in difficult circumstances most of the time.
However, I do agree with most of the rest of what you say. Have we reached some kind of watershed in the Moyes era with the team selection at West Ham? Looking at other posts, people saying they have had enough of the negativity, I think most of us are shocked that he held back so much against a team that are at the bottom of the league.
If he doesn't trust the strikers to score when we are playing a team as poor as West Ham, he might as well sell them all now, because they will never have a better opportunity to score in the Premier League. I could stomach his tactics away at Chelsea, but not away at West Ham.
It's put up or shut up now for Moyes. Results speak louder than words. To do that, we need to score some goals.
29 Posted 31/12/2010 at 11:42:49
30 Posted 31/12/2010 at 12:29:32
I had a season ticket back in 2003-04 and at times it felt like a chore that I had to give up most of my Saturdays just to do a 500-mile round-trip from London. It was marginally worse than this season and I think we finished on a record low points total.
We Evertonians are too nice and put up with rubbish served up regardless. I made a conscious decision then that was enough for me for the time being and I don't think that'll change until the current hierarchy and management changes.
31 Posted 31/12/2010 at 13:46:03
That team was perfectly equipped to beat West Ham and they should have done. Playing strikers when they are not performing, missing chance after chance, not going into the areas where it hurts and where the goals are scored, failing to hold the ball up is folly.
Yakubu's "cameo" is surely his last play in a blue shirt. He has been taking the money for the past two years now without turning up. Who will take him off our hands?
Saha doesn't seem to like the cold weather. He has ability no doubt but not the desire it seems.
Beckford isn't ready but he should have had more game time and at least gets in a position to score. I'm not surprised Moyes started with Anichebe at Eastlands although he spoiled it with his stupidity in getting sent off after doing a good job for 60 minutes.
I'm sure Saha and Yakubu should go and that we need a new striker. All of our football has not been crap this season. The goalscoring has been crap, Cahill and Coleman apart. We were crap in the Arsenal game at home but we should have had three points at Villa away, Blackpool and Wigan.The Pienaar situation should have been sorted out and it's a crying shame we have to play young Coleman at right mid. These are money matters, not selection issues.
I know fans are angry at the results but some of the comments of fans are too emotive. The Premier League is not a place for knee-jerk solutions and quick fixes. I do note the mood change of the fans though and that should not be ignored; the club needs to deliver something for the fans to shout about, starting with the next three fixtures. COYB ? and get back on to that flight from Belfast, Andy!
32 Posted 31/12/2010 at 14:22:50
He knows he's got the best job his talent will allow...
If he ever manages Man Utd, I will blow a Bangkok lady boy....
He's stick on for the next Celtic job, where talent is not needed... He may even get them a top 2 finish!
33 Posted 31/12/2010 at 13:47:35
34 Posted 31/12/2010 at 21:07:01
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