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What should a supporter do?

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I think the West Ham game might just have done it for me. The starting line-up defied belief. Hibbert at centre back? Why not just get rid of Duffy, Beckford, Yakubu. Fuck it I can't be bothered with analysing the shite...

Here's the question: What should a supporter do when their club is chaired by an incompetent and managed by a man for whom one has only utter contempt? It costs me £300 plus to attend a game. I've seen two this season and hoped to see another three. Not now.

I really feel that I'm not prepared to spend any more money while Moyes and Kenwright destroy this club. Kenwright is beyond words. For Moyes I have this:

Overrated, overpaid, inept, dour, utterly bereft of imagination, negative... and,i t hurts to say this, completely devoid of dignity and integrity.

I feel guilty and disloyal but what else is left? Go there and condone this shite or say enough is enough?

It is my honest view that no professional manager in English football would have our squad in a worse position than Moyes has.

Who will replace him?

Anyone... fucking anyone.


Andy Crooks, belfast     Posted 30/12/2010 at 19:24:10

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Gerry Quinn
1   Posted 30/12/2010 at 20:37:49

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I was going to reply to this over-reaction, but....
Andrew Flanagan
2   Posted 30/12/2010 at 20:46:14

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Nearly spat my tea out reading this.

Utter contempt for David Moyes? No dignity and integrity?

I suggest you save yourself the ferry fare mate if you feel this strongly.

We are a good team with a good manager. I agree, the tactics were suspect on Tuesday... and I feel we are really negative at times... but you cannot question the integrity or dignity of David Moyes.
Simon Jenkins
3   Posted 30/12/2010 at 21:09:15

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We are a couple of wins off 7th place.

You'd think we were rock bottom after reading that.
Brian Waring
4   Posted 30/12/2010 at 21:05:25

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Andrew, funny how it took an age before Moyes signed his new contract, and a huge pay rise to boot.

Some will tell me it was because he was disgruntled with BK, and wanted to know where he stood; funny how all that soon dissappeared with the huge pay rise.

John Daley
5   Posted 30/12/2010 at 21:18:38

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"We are a couple of wins off 7th place.

You'd think we were rock bottom after reading that."

We're 5 points behind 7th. The exact same number of points we are from being rock bottom of the league.

You're obviously an eternal optimist.

Mike Bates
6   Posted 30/12/2010 at 21:24:08

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Simon, we're a couple of loses from the bottom.
Mike Bates
7   Posted 30/12/2010 at 21:26:16

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John's post wasn't up when I was replying. But nice to see I'm not the only one fed up with all this 'if results go our way' and 'we arent that much behind 7th' bollocks.
Leon Perrin
8   Posted 30/12/2010 at 21:14:04

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Andy

I've stopped going now; this season was the test and it's undiluted crap.

Cards on table: I've always been suspicious of the Moyes myth but he's the Everton manager so he had the benefit of the doubt ? even though we've been up and down like a whore's draws with him.

No more for me: the telly pundits, journos, PS2 boys on here can say what they want ? it's shite.

Marcus Kendall
9   Posted 30/12/2010 at 21:33:24

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I agree, Leon, this season was the season for Moyes to show whether he has what it takes or not. A fully fit squad ? and his best to date (his words).

Unfortunately, he's failed miserably and seems to respect the opposition more than his own players' ability. That's not acceptable in my eyes.
Brian Waring
10   Posted 30/12/2010 at 21:58:50

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Marcus ? "Seems to respect the opposition more than his own players' ability". Great shout mate.
Marcus Kendall
11   Posted 30/12/2010 at 22:28:09

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Cheers, Brian, funny thing with Moyes was he HAD balls at first when he took the job and was a breath of fresh air. I think it all changed when we got 4th with that negative 4-5-1 and he thinks that's the blueprint now.
Ray Robinson
12   Posted 30/12/2010 at 22:33:37

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You know how Saha's form dipped when he signed his new contract? Likewise Arteta? Well Moyes seemed to lose something when he signed his megabuck deal last season.
Gavin Ramejkis
13   Posted 30/12/2010 at 22:39:47

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Andy, save your money mate, spend it on yourself and your family and or friends, you'll get infinitely better returns on it.

Amazed you haven't had the usual suspects out with the "How dare you, so many LMAs blah blah blah. As John said, a few losses from the bottom of the league... equally as five points off seventh; trouble with analogies is you have to look at recent form (this season), which is more likely?
Tom Bowers
14   Posted 30/12/2010 at 23:28:52

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Andy, you have my sympathy too. Moyes has become an enigma. Sometimes getting it right but, this season, mostly getting it wrong. A great performance at City followed by a poor performance at West Ham. Okay, the Hammers never had a shot on target but we basically set out to do just that with the starting eleven.

I really don't know how long we are supposed to keep making excuses for him. Unless we make a couple of significant moves next week or so, then we have to resign ouselves to the fact that we will see the second half of the season much the same as the first.

If we hadn't beaten City then we could maybe only look at the Derby match as the only highlight of the season so far. Happy New Year!

Chris Leyland
15   Posted 31/12/2010 at 00:00:51

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Gavin ? you ask which is more likely: 7th or bottom? So here is a challenge for you, mate, to put your money where your mouth is:

I say we will finish nearer to 7th place than bottom of the league. If we finish nearer to the bottom than 7th then I will donate £100 quid to the charity of your choice. if we finish nearer to 7th than bottom, will you do the same?

David Barks
16   Posted 31/12/2010 at 00:06:13

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There is absolutely nothing wrong with holding onto your money and calling things as they are. What I have no time for is people who come on here calling BK and Moyes every obscenity under the sun because that is childish and shows a complete inability to form a thoughtful sentence. Twat this and twat that makes someone sound like a 13-year-old brat who can't form a reasonable argument and their opinions hold the same weight as that of a 13-year-old when I read it.

But you voiced exactly how you feel in some strong words, and is pretty much exactly what I said at the start of the season when I wrote I can't invest any more money or time and emotion on Everton. Moyes has lost me this season. Despite the problems I have with someone like Redknapp, he sets his players out to rip apart the opposition. Sometimes it doesn't work, but he will always go out there looking for goals and you see the result.

No other manager would set a team out against West Ham without a striker. That was the lowest point in all my years of following this team. I've only watched a handful of games this season and unfortunately that was one. I don't feel guilty ? I feel sane. Blindly following and apologizing for a football club or manager is the same as those politics addicts who fall in love with a candidate and will never admit when they are wrong. It's unhealthy.

When Moyes said his players lack belief, nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, HE is the one who lacks belief in them, and as someone already said, it's very sad when the manager shows more respect for the players of West Ham than he does belief in a fully fit squad of Everton players.

Graham Rathbone
17   Posted 31/12/2010 at 00:10:34

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Simon ? "We are a couple of wins off 7th place"

You may be right, mate... but look at what's happening: loads of draws, inept tactics, draws with Wigan, home defeats to Newcastle and West Brom etc.

I ask, WHERE IS THE NEXT WIN COMING FROM?

James Newcombe
18   Posted 31/12/2010 at 01:33:56

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I wish he'd stop being so defensive / negative, and also give youth more of a chance. To be fair he has given Coleman and Rodwell plenty of game time. But, missing a centre back? Play Duffy, don't shoe horn a RB there. Need some pace? Get Gueye on! They might not be the finished article yet, but they'll get there quicker with appearances under their belts.
Martin Handley
19   Posted 31/12/2010 at 01:40:28

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I have said for years now that Moyes lacks any man-management skill; if you want to motivate players, slagging them off in the media week-in, week-out is not the way to go about it.

Does anybody else notice that nothing is ever HIS fault? Well just a quick note for you, Davey lad ? it IS YOUR fault.

Having a preffered tactic, 4-5-1, is fine but there has to be a backup plan, eg, a Plan B. But Moyes just doesn't have one ?unless you count panic with 10 minutes to go and throw all 3 strikers on!

It's always been the same with his transfer dealings too.

Martin Handley
20   Posted 31/12/2010 at 01:49:01

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What I was saying re his transfer policy is that he goes after player A... fails, and then panic-buys at the last minute if all else fails.

Do I think we'll go down? No... but it'll have more to do with the players realising they're the ones to get us out of this mess, than any change in the way Moyes thinks.

Lyndon Lloyd
21   Posted 31/12/2010 at 06:08:32

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It's all very well being pissed off with the team's form and the manager behind it but it's an over-reaction to throw baseless insults his way. The man is clearly not devoid of integrity or dignity, in fact I'd say they are one of his strengths... to a fault.

Many is the time I wish he'd give someone a good tongue-lashing on camera and damn the consequences.
Dave Wilson
22   Posted 31/12/2010 at 06:53:30

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Chris

I think you are wrong to issue that challenge to Gavin. Why ? Because I did the same myself at the start of the season, I later realised I`d railroaded a fellow blue into betting against his own team; luckily he accepted my offer to call it off.

I tend to side with your view on where the team finishes, but I ask you to withdraw the challenge: it's double-edged.

If it's accepted, the best Gavin ? a fellow blue ? can hope for is a very hollow victory, one he doesn't want.

If its not accepted, he looks like he lacks the courage of his conviction.

Donate to your charities by all means, but remember we ALL want the same thing here.

Andy Crooks: Get yourself down from that ledge lad. You support the club, not the manager.

Paul Gladwell
23   Posted 31/12/2010 at 09:38:54

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I would love to know how many of these lads who come on here slating people for questioning the shite we pay to see each week actually pay to go themselves?

I go the game with a crowd of 10 to 12 lads and meet up with many more from over our side and the amount of them who do not look forward to going to the game in the pub beforehand is shocking, as is the amount who leave early, sick of the shite and in need of the comfort of a pint, ? is that what watching us is meant to be about?

The thing is, if we had a shite squad, you could except it... but we have a squad which should be challenging the top six and yet we have to endure team selections like that one at West Ham.

I am sick of his stubborness and blaming everyone bar himself, all that shite about him for Utd has gone to his head and he no doubt believes his own hype.

He has done a fairly good job; nothing more, nothing less, for every Manger of the Year award, there is an Everton Worst Record of something or other. And for every victory over City or whoever comes a Shrewsbury or whoever.

Stephen Kenny
24   Posted 31/12/2010 at 09:46:26

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As if 7th is some kind of massive achievement for the 9 times champions of England?

I posted a list of manager's I'd be happy to see replace Moyes on the Tony Marsh thread. Some of them are no great shakes, but all would do a better job than go to the worst side in the league and play with no strikers. It's the straw that broke the camels back for me.

We can criticise Kenwright till the cows come home but he has given him enough room to build a side capable of 4th. When you get to 4th, then you can really build to go higher.

Some of his decision-making this season has been beyond shocking. I think a parting of ways is for the best at the end of this season, regardless of the decent run we will no doubt have at some point.

Each season is 38 games long and, over 38 games, we will have underperformed for two consecutive seasons.
James Thomas
25   Posted 31/12/2010 at 10:10:34

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Andy

I have been feeling a similar way to you this season. As someone who was born and raised in London, I have spent most of my life as an "away fan". I get to all the London games I can get tickets for (thank you, ESCLA) and try to make it up to Goodison two or three times a season.

I have only recently left university and had the disposable income to allow me to make journeys up to Liverpool. However, my trips to Goodison have been so invariably miserable that I struggle to see the point anymore. My first game at Goodison saw us lose at home to Portsmouth in what was the worst performance I think I have ever seen from an Everton team, worse even than the 4-0 at Selhurst Park. Quite frankly, my trips up haven't really improved since then and I have seen only one win at Goodison in the past 5 years, the 2-1 over Fulham last season which was a meaningless game anyway by that stage of the season.

This year for his birthday, I took my father up to Liverpool for a weekend away and to watch the Arsenal game. We were totally shite and Moyes was afraid and clueless, as he usually is in the "big" games. As we sat on the train home surrounded by Arsenal fans, I turned to my dad and said "Why do we even bother?" An Evertonian of 56 years, he struggled to come up with an answer. Before West Ham away last season, it had been 13 years since I had witnessed an Everton victory in the flesh. I appreciate this is partly bad luck and partly a lack of attendance on my part, but it's starting to get fucking ridiculous.

This season, I have attended six matches and seen two defeats and four draws. The football on show has been truly dire (apart from the Chelsea match). I will be going to the match at the Emirates in February in the vain hope that we'll go one better than we did last year but, when we inevitably go one, two, three goals down, I won't be the slightest bit surprised. I think that's the worst thing; when I go to a game and we play shite and start to lose, I struggle to even get angry, it's just all so bloody predictable.

You can feel the atmosphere has changed amongst the fans too. I'm wary of being overly nostalgic about one's childhood memories, but back in the early to mid-nineties when I was attending matches, I remember the atmosphere and chanting being awe-inspiring. Chanting at 3-0 down, roaring the team on.

At Goodison against City a couple of seasons ago I remember hearing opposition fans for the first time chanting "Your support is fucking shit". Just a one-off on a bad day I told myself. Then, against Arsenal this season, as I sat in the Park End, their fans were deafening and ours were despondent, silent. My mate in the Arsenal section was equally stunned ? he'd only ever seen our away fans at the Emirates, drowning out 60,000 latte drinkers.

I knew West Ham away was a new nadir when I heard the chant again, directed at us from less than a thousand deafening West Ham fans ? even our hardcore away fans had lost the will to chant.

This is on you, Moyes. In seventeen years of attending matches as an away fan, I had never heard this. Moyes, and the team, are slowly wearing down even our most loyal and vocal supporters. Fucking shameful.

John Waugh
26   Posted 31/12/2010 at 10:38:33

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Best way of summing up our recent performances:?
Prior to the Birmingham game, my 7-year-old (who has a season ticket with me) actually asked if he could go with mum shopping to the Trafford Centre instead as the match was rubbish.
Andy Crooks
27   Posted 31/12/2010 at 10:46:21

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Lyndon, these are comments that I do not make lightly. In fact, I have previously stated on this site that I regarded David Moyes as a man of the utmost integrity. This changed after his dithering over his contract and I feel much the same as Brian Waring. In my view David Moyes has been complicit in keeping Bill Kenwright in power; this is detrimental to the club.
Danny Broderick
28   Posted 31/12/2010 at 11:21:01

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Andy, I think you went a bit over the top in your descriptions of David Moyes. I don't honestly believe the majority of fans hold him in contempt, and to describe him as lacking in dignity and integrity is well below the belt.

If he left and came back with another team, he would be guaranteed a warm reception back at Everton, as I believe that, with the benefit of a bit of time to reflect, we could overcome the gripes that we are currently voicing and realise that overall he has done an excellent job at Everton in difficult circumstances most of the time.

However, I do agree with most of the rest of what you say. Have we reached some kind of watershed in the Moyes era with the team selection at West Ham? Looking at other posts, people saying they have had enough of the negativity, I think most of us are shocked that he held back so much against a team that are at the bottom of the league.

If he doesn't trust the strikers to score when we are playing a team as poor as West Ham, he might as well sell them all now, because they will never have a better opportunity to score in the Premier League. I could stomach his tactics away at Chelsea, but not away at West Ham.

It's put up or shut up now for Moyes. Results speak louder than words. To do that, we need to score some goals.

Paul Gladwell
29   Posted 31/12/2010 at 11:42:49

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James, could not agree more about how the fans are changing, I have noticed a bigger change this season at Goodison, even the so-called bigger games have been a below-par support.
Kunal Desai
30   Posted 31/12/2010 at 12:29:32

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Andy ? I hear you mate. I totally understand how you feel.

I had a season ticket back in 2003-04 and at times it felt like a chore that I had to give up most of my Saturdays just to do a 500-mile round-trip from London. It was marginally worse than this season and I think we finished on a record low points total.

We Evertonians are too nice and put up with rubbish served up regardless. I made a conscious decision then that was enough for me for the time being and I don't think that'll change until the current hierarchy and management changes.

Kevin Gillen
31   Posted 31/12/2010 at 13:46:03

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I know the fans are frustrated but I just can't hold with this article. You can't attack the man's integrity. Moyes has been the most honest manager. The players need to take responsibility for their performances, they cross the white line.

That team was perfectly equipped to beat West Ham and they should have done. Playing strikers when they are not performing, missing chance after chance, not going into the areas where it hurts and where the goals are scored, failing to hold the ball up is folly.

Yakubu's "cameo" is surely his last play in a blue shirt. He has been taking the money for the past two years now without turning up. Who will take him off our hands?

Saha doesn't seem to like the cold weather. He has ability no doubt but not the desire it seems.

Beckford isn't ready but he should have had more game time and at least gets in a position to score. I'm not surprised Moyes started with Anichebe at Eastlands although he spoiled it with his stupidity in getting sent off after doing a good job for 60 minutes.

I'm sure Saha and Yakubu should go and that we need a new striker. All of our football has not been crap this season. The goalscoring has been crap, Cahill and Coleman apart. We were crap in the Arsenal game at home but we should have had three points at Villa away, Blackpool and Wigan.The Pienaar situation should have been sorted out and it's a crying shame we have to play young Coleman at right mid. These are money matters, not selection issues.

I know fans are angry at the results but some of the comments of fans are too emotive. The Premier League is not a place for knee-jerk solutions and quick fixes. I do note the mood change of the fans though and that should not be ignored; the club needs to deliver something for the fans to shout about, starting with the next three fixtures. COYB ? and get back on to that flight from Belfast, Andy!

Tony Gee
32   Posted 31/12/2010 at 14:22:50

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For me, any manager with anything about him would never have signed a new contract knowing we were pottless....

He knows he's got the best job his talent will allow...

If he ever manages Man Utd, I will blow a Bangkok lady boy....

He's stick on for the next Celtic job, where talent is not needed... He may even get them a top 2 finish!
Gavin Ramejkis
33   Posted 31/12/2010 at 13:47:35

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Danny (#27) ? if DM left and came back to play against us with another team, I'd think game on ? we get to play a side not looking to go out and win, possibly with no strikers on the pitch, that with every defensive set-piece have eleven of their men in their own area to make a counter-attack impossible, move the ball crab like towards us and play players out of position and thus weakened... yeah, that would be nice.
Sheilah Blueitt
34   Posted 31/12/2010 at 21:07:01

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I have only been a season ticket holder for about 8 years, I got disillusioned about three years ago and stopped going to the game. This season I decided to go back as the pull to Goodison is strong but I am now having second thoughts about renewing my ticket, I sometimes can't bear to watch us on the TV, we are abysmal. I do hope the boys get their mojo back and soon.

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