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Christmas comes with Tiger Tim gone

Comments (43)

I am not sure as to why everyone is worried that Tiger Tim is heading away for January. Apart from his goals this season, most commentators last season on ToffeeWeb were saying he was the reason why Moyes always played players out of their natural positions.

So, now he's gone, Moyes will be able to grant everyone's Christmas wish and not only play everyone in their natural position but also deploy a 4-4-2 with two natural forwards up front.

Happy New Year


Sam List, Japan     Posted 31/12/2010 at 03:40:19

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Lyndon Lloyd
1   Posted 31/12/2010 at 06:00:01

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Or he'll just put Fellaini into the Cahill role and it'll be "as you were..."

I honestly hope he'll use the opportunity to try something different — what has he got to lose at this point? — but he's resisted trying 4-4-2 all season so I can't see him starting now.
Christine Foster
2   Posted 31/12/2010 at 06:12:40

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Lyndon, I was thinking that myself but thought, nah... even Moyes can't be that stupid.

Then I thought, 3 strikers on the bench, defensive midfielder up front... he has managed to do the impossible, a team made up of defenders... His Dream Team.

Christine Foster
3   Posted 31/12/2010 at 06:14:59

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Sam, I sort of agree with you. It's long been a personal feeling and indeed I have posted as such, that Fellaini and Cahill can't play in the same team. It's like having two really great players who can only play the one position. Unfortunately it's the same spot!

From a balance perspective, you may well be right if he does play two strikers up front against Stoke... but that's my heart speaking; my head tells me it's more likely to be Big Vic, which is the worst case in my book.
Anthony Jaras
4   Posted 31/12/2010 at 07:02:25

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Unbelievable!!!!! Our top scorer and top forward, in fact our only goal threat, is leaving for a month and people question whether our not we will miss him?

I despair sometimes!
Russ Quinlan
5   Posted 31/12/2010 at 07:15:48

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The only time Moyes started playing Coleman was because he had to, it was only after that the lad showed what he can do and then Moyes had to keep playing him. Hopefully someone else will 'have' to fill Timmy's gap and we will benefit; I live in hope... maybe forlorn hope!
Anthony Hughes
6   Posted 31/12/2010 at 08:22:01

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Fellaini and Cahill do not play in the same position. Fellaini's best role is as the defensive anchor man, breaking play up and getting our moves started. Cahill's best role is off a front man, timing his run's and ghosting into the box.
Steve Carter
7   Posted 31/12/2010 at 09:29:33

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I'm over it, Anthony. There's some gibberers on this site, but, for mine, the 'we'll do/we'd do better without Cahill' philosophers take the biscuit. For mine, pound for pound, Tim Cahill is the best outfield player Everton have had since Dixie Dean. (Remember, those taking immediate offence, this goal scoring midfield fella has strutted his stuff in the English Premier League, not the Football League Division One.)
Anthony Hughes
8   Posted 31/12/2010 at 09:42:59

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Without Cahill this season we would be up to our necks in the brown stuff. His goal-scoring record speaks for itself and, as an attacking midfielder/support striker, he is amongst the best in the country.
Dave Roberts
9   Posted 31/12/2010 at 09:49:36

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Now, I like Tim Cahill, especially his ability to snatch goals from half-chances. But to call him the best (pound for pound... whatever that means) outfield player Everton have had since Dixie Dean is bloody ridiculous.

In my view, the following players would have something to say about that comment:

Tommy Lawton
Dave Hickson
Alex Young
Roy Vernon
Tony Kay
Alan Ball (this midfield fella scored 18 goals one season and had a hand in most of the rest!)
Colin Harvey
Howard Kendall
Joe Royle
Ray Wilson
Tommy Wright
Paul Bracewell
Kevin Ratcliffe
Adrian Heath
Gary Lineker
Andy Gray

I could suggest more... but 'nuff said.
Gerry Allen
10   Posted 31/12/2010 at 09:58:38

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Play a striker and give Bily a chance just behind in the Cahill role.

He gets a lot of stick but I think he's another lad played out of position. I also think he's our best goal threat given the drought that exists with the strikers and Timmy's travels. If he doesn't cut the mustard, he should be packed off somewhere before the end of the month.
Dave Roberts
11   Posted 31/12/2010 at 10:01:25

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PS Tommy Lawton was the only one of the above I didn't personally see play.
Stephen Kenny
12   Posted 31/12/2010 at 10:11:13

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If Bily doesn't play with Cahill gone, then Moyes has wasted a monumental amount of money when we were a winger away from being a really good side.

It also begs the question: Can he be trusted in the transfer market with big dosh?
Anthony Hughes
13   Posted 31/12/2010 at 10:17:26

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Have to agree, Stephen, what did Moyes think he was getting when he went out and bought Bily? Surely to God he must have done his homework before spending near 10 million pounds on a footballer.
Steve Carter
14   Posted 31/12/2010 at 10:15:59

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Ok, Dave, I respect your opinion. However, contrast the likes of which you saw those you refer to strutting their stuff against, week-in, week-out, with those who Tim Cahill comes up against. Vidic, Toure, Clichy, Gallas, etc etc etc, week after week?
Gavin Ramejkis
15   Posted 31/12/2010 at 10:26:58

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Steve and Dave, I think Cahill's ability should be put in perspective; he has been a great player for Everton in his era, good goal returns and a good record against the RS.

Fans are odd folk; Man U fans voted Cantona their best player of all time over George Best ? personally, I'd have said George Best was a much better player but thats just my appraisal.

Lyndon, I said on another thread that Moyes will most likely push Fellaini up front; he's done it before and is one stubborn bugger, so I don't expect any change to his formation after 9 years. Subs will be the same old same old, like for like, no formation change and very late in the game too... you could set your clock by him.
Dave Roberts
16   Posted 31/12/2010 at 10:27:12

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Steve Carter

Let's take just Alan ball as an example then. Who did he come up against? Well there was:-

Dave McKay
Jackie Charlton
Norman Hunter
Tommy Smith
Ron Yeats
Billy Bremner
Bobby Moore
Steve Perryman
Ian Ure
George Best
Bobby Charlton
Johnny Giles
Peter Osgood
Chopper (Ron) Harris et al and etc etc.

And these are all accomplished international defenders and midfielders against whom Ball would directly compete. And I could do this for all the players in my list.
Richard Dodd
17   Posted 31/12/2010 at 10:38:34

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Significant that not one of Dave Robert`s `Everton Greats` strutted his stuff in the Premier League. Football didn`t get serious until 1992 when the English league went global; so, apart from a glamourised historical perspective, few of those named mean anything.
Gerry Allen
18   Posted 31/12/2010 at 10:41:55

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Is this thread about what Everton will do once Tim Cahill goes away for a month or (yet another) look backwards to when we had decent players? An Evertonian from Japan (!) started a decent debate ? can we stick to this please?

Give Bily a go or ship him out! The lad has a chance to play in his best postion and show us why he's scored about 12 goals at international level.

Konichi-wa!
Dave Roberts
19   Posted 31/12/2010 at 10:37:21

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Gavin,

I agree with you. In the context of Everton FC over the last few years, Cahill has been our best player and has made a significant contribution in one way or another in every season he has played for us. I like him.

I just thought the view that he was the best outfield player for the last 70-odd years was a bit over the top!
Liam Reilly
20   Posted 31/12/2010 at 10:40:59

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Different footballers in different eras... you cannot compare them.
I never saw the Holy Trinity play, but I did see The Rat, Reid, Bracewell, Van Den Hauwe, Stevens et al. These were all class players who could really mix it when required, but it was a different game then, much more physical than today's league.

Players could eat and drink to excess and it didn't matter come Saturday; nowdays, you couldn't get away with those excesses.

The game's moved on; comparisons are irrelevant.
John Daley
21   Posted 31/12/2010 at 10:48:58

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"... Dave Robert`s `Everton Greats'... apart from a glamourised historical perspective, few of those named mean anything".

Doddy, you have spouted some absolute shite this season but that takes the biscuit. You defend Moyes and Kenwright to the hilt despite neither of them achieving anything of real note during their time at the club. Yet you readily dismiss the merits of men who have contributed more to the Everton cause than Dumb and Dumber can ever hope to by claiming they are 'glamorised' non-entities who 'mean nothing' compared to today's mercenaries. Unbelievable.
Eddie Maidens
22   Posted 31/12/2010 at 11:04:59

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David Moyes picks his best players, so it will be Jan Mucha as a striker.

MOYES OUT!!!!.
John Daley
23   Posted 31/12/2010 at 11:05:21

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..'glamorised' non-entities who 'mean nothing' compared to today's mercenaries. Unbelievable.
Allan Barratt
24   Posted 31/12/2010 at 11:13:03

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With Tim away, Moyes should play 4-4-2, with Saha and Beckford up front. They played together a couple times in pre-season, PNE away stands out; Beckford scored 2 and set up a goal for Saha. I know this was only against PNE but they looked comfortable playing together and seemed to have a good understanding.

Saha can drop deep and Beckford go beyond the defenders, they should be given time to play. Or if he's not going to play strikers sell them!

Ken Buckley
25   Posted 31/12/2010 at 11:26:36

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4-4-2 sounds interesting whilst Tim is away. I can imagine the 4-4 but ? given we have not got one striker in any sort of form ? it it would be interesting to see who made the 2...
Stephen Kenny
26   Posted 31/12/2010 at 11:34:42

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Most ridiculous post of all time?

"Significant that not one of Dave Robert`s `Everton Greats` strutted his stuff in the Premier League. Football didn`t get serious until 1992 when the English league went global so, apart from a glamourised historical perspective, few of those named mean anything. ? Doddy!
Mark Pierpoint
27   Posted 31/12/2010 at 11:29:56

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i would be surprised to see Saha here Allan. I think he has been offered to French clubs if you look at reports in the Echo.
Stephen Kenny
28   Posted 31/12/2010 at 11:36:47

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I forgot to add,

I'm 26 played all my life, watched all my life. Dixie Dean would still score all the goals he did then, today. Why? Because he was head and shoulders above his peers, literally. So would Gary Lineker.

The more modern professional players have had so many more advantages and weren't playing with a big leather 'medicine' ball, nor the no backpass, subs etc. Football is Football and greatness is greatness.
Terry Hayes
29   Posted 31/12/2010 at 11:58:02

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Allan (23) ? that just about sums Moyes up, plays 4-4-2 in a pre-season nothing game which proved successful and then totally shits himself when it comes to the real thing and reverts back to the usual defensive shite that we see week-in, and-out.

With Tim going, this is an opportunity to try something, anything that is totally different to what is happening now: Bily in a more attacking role; Rodwell has to get a lot more involved in games (it all goes on around him); Arteta needs to... well just go really ? he is absolutely ineffective at the moment; and Pienaar needs to look up the meaning of "end product " in the dictionary.

I saw West Ham as a great chance to try something more imaginative ? it didn't happen. It's New Year's Eve and, providing we survive this season under this boring frustrating manager, we'll all be here same time next year, spouting the same shite.

Dick Fearon
30   Posted 31/12/2010 at 10:11:07

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Dave #s 9 + 11 ? Except for Lawton ,I also saw those you mention yet I dispute the premise that those you named were better than modern players. Today's game is light years ahead of yesteryear's in everything from a playing surface that is incomparable to the mud heaps of yesteryear. Players apparel, shoes, shinguards and even the ball all made from space age technology.

To speed up the game and reduce time wasting, the Laws of Football have seen huge changes. In days of yore, free-kicks, throw-ins, time-wasting by keepers etc meant it was normal to lose 30 minutes from actual playing time with no allowance added on. What I say can be easily verified simply by looking at old records.

Such has been the changes in every facet of the game it is nigh impossible to compare modern players with the old ones. For example, it was Lineker's speed that made him stand out from the rest, yet today there would be many modern players who would be as least as quick, if not quicker.

Most if not all those you mentioned were part of very good teams. We were not as totally dependent on their input as we have been on Cahill's. Yesteryear bears no comparison with todays game.
I will not try to kid the younger generation by suggesting that everything in the olden days was better than today because it most certainly was not. Like everyone, I enjoy dipping into my old memory box but I also believe that Cahill, in a much tougher environment, is creating memories that will last for an equally long time.

It should always be born in mind that there is no comparison between the old Division 1 and the Premier League ? not in skill, physical fitness of players, or the pace of the game.

Simon Temme
31   Posted 31/12/2010 at 12:51:55

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John (#22 & #23) and Steve (#25 & #27):

I couldn't agree more, comparing players from different eras is sometimes like compairing apples and pears. However, to say that football can only be judged in the EPL era is the most stupid thing I have ever heard from a fellow Evertonian.

That's if Richard Dodd is???

His posts are designed to inflict and provoke reaction and his blind loyalty to what must be Everton in the EPL era is more than baffling.

Yes, like all of us he has an opinion however Michael and Lyndon can you not at least put some form of Assange gagging order on some of the utter insulting opinion he does spout? Please.

James Stewart
32   Posted 31/12/2010 at 13:16:23

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Tomorrow will no doubt see the return of Big Vic and I very much hope 541 will be scrapped! Cahill has been missing before... many a time, and he hasn't abandoned it.
Tom Bowers
33   Posted 31/12/2010 at 13:26:27

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Big Vic would be an obvious choice against the big, physical Stoke team. He still has youth on his side but not that natural goalscorer's touch that Yaks and Saha have. However, they are sadly out of form but Beckford has pace and might compliment Big Vic better.

We know that Moyes will not experiment and therefore the negativity will continue with his team selection. Another draw if we are lucky.

David Thomas
34   Posted 31/12/2010 at 13:46:11

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"Sam, I sort of agree with you, it's long been a personal feeling and indeed I have posted as such, that Fellaini and Cahill can't play in the same team. It's like having two really great players who can only play the one position. Unfortunately it's the same spot!"

Am I the only one totally confused by this statement. Correct me if I am wrong but Cahill is an attacking midfielder and Fellaini is a defensive midfielder. Not sure why in that case they cannot play in the same team.

Christine,

Out of curiosity which is the same spot / position that they are both playing in???
Ernie Baywood
35   Posted 31/12/2010 at 13:51:39

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Always lots of talk about Cahill's goals... but what worries me is us losing his leadership.

He was the one organising the team against City. He leads from the front and I'm not convinced that we have anyone who can take on that role. Some decent footballers but they're generally a fairly insipid lot.
Gavin Ramejkis
36   Posted 31/12/2010 at 13:47:32

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Doddy, you have been laughed off these pages before after admitting you know fuck all about true football (you know, before Sky re-invented the game), you've admitted never having seen a game before the Sky era. Please don't make such bollocks statements about yesterday's footballers meaning fuck all.

They were the stars of their time who played against equally qualified peers and triumphed. Your ignorance diminishes any sort of argument you are trying to make about modern football being greater than football of old.

Why did you become an Evertonian if you have no interest whatsoever in our history?

Liam Reilly
37   Posted 31/12/2010 at 14:24:15

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Lucky for us that Australia aren't any great shakes at the moment (sorry Aussies), but unlucky for us, they are in a group with South Korea, India and Bahrain, so it''s unlikely TC will be back any time before the 22 January at the earliest.
Dave Lynch
38   Posted 31/12/2010 at 14:47:25

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Dave @ 16.

You can add to that list.

Colin Bell
George Graham
Frank Mclintock
Martin Dobson (Burnley days)
Pat Rice
Ian Storey Moore

All stunning footballers who would be more than a match for 90% of today's prime donna's.

Doddy, words fail me after that last statement.
James Stewart
39   Posted 31/12/2010 at 15:02:41

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It's hard to argue with Tom's prediction. It will be another snooze fest and a tight affair with us again failing to assert ourselves. We do not commit enough men forward ever! ? with or without the ball and nothing ventured really is returning nothing gained.

Moyesist to the extreme.

Dave Lynch
40   Posted 31/12/2010 at 15:08:58

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James. If you don't assert yourself against Stoke, they will bully you all day. Very physical side.
Derek Thomas
41   Posted 01/01/2011 at 01:09:20

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Steve Carter. I 'was' going to say your comment Re Cahill and Dean is the biggest load of old tosh I have ever heard in my life.

Then Doddy's played his joker and trumped your ace.

Dave Roberts and others are on the right track, the list, while not endless, is sufficient.

Oh wait, it was an end of year wind up.

Wasn't it??
Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
42   Posted 01/01/2011 at 05:15:43

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Simon (#31), this question about Doddy keeps popping up. People think he's a wind-up... a kopite,... whatever.


Maybe I'm gullible but I think people invent such stories to address more their own issues regarding the difficulty they have accepting the very broad range of views out there about Everton issues. As David Edwards said Doddy and Marshy appear to be at the extremes of that range.

Fact is, he's generally consistent in the guff he writes (except for an odd period of wavering recently that he has thankfully recovered from). I'm farily sure it's what he believes... and sometimes he even gets it right ? he said early last season he expected us to finish 8th... and we did!

Simon Temme
43   Posted 01/01/2011 at 12:33:30

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Michael,

Thanks for your balanced reply.

IMO Toffeeweb is by far the best Everton (and non Everton) fan site around.

Keep up the good work and Happy New Year to all Blues.

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