I think that Moyes' flirtation with 4-4-2 should be jettisoned for the Derby next week. It's one think having two strikers in the team at home to Spurs and away to Scunthorpe, it's another entirely in an away game of this magnitude.
These games are generally won and lost in the midfield battle (battle being the operative word) and we can't risk being overrun in this area. Saha and Beckford could easily be spectators if Liverpool have five in there (as they probably will).
I reckon Moyes will go for a 4-3-2-1 (a fancy way of describing 4-5-1) with these personnel:
Neville Baines Distin Jagielka
Fellaini Arteta Osman/Rodwell
I'd go for Rodwell over Osman to replace Beckford. No doubt there will be plenty saying we should stick with 4-4-2, but you've got to be flexible and pick the right team for each occasion. We can get back to 4-4-2 for the West Ham game.
Colin O'Keeffe, Posted 09/01/2011 at 20:31:12
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1 Posted 10/01/2011 at 05:47:18
2 Posted 10/01/2011 at 07:18:23
I hope that it is not just a "flirtation " as you call it with 4-4-2 and that David Moyes realises that playing 2 strikers can work. 2 strikers can support each other ans also provide more problems for the opposing central defenders.
Although naturally pleased to see Liverpool lose at Old Trafford, I do have certain misgivings. If I was totally honest I would have to say that the penalty was harsh and so was the sending off. I hope that Liverpool have therefore not used up their "quota" of bad luck for the next few games !!! I do believe however that Gerrard has had it coming for a long time. He more tham most players seems to strut around the pitch thinking that it doesn't matter what he does, he can get away with anything because of who he is. In the last seasons Derby Match he cheated to get Pienaar sent off. He is one of the worst when it comes to players trying to influence match officials.
3 Posted 10/01/2011 at 08:01:35
4 Posted 10/01/2011 at 08:06:50
5 Posted 10/01/2011 at 08:07:17
If you need me to go on, on his day Fellaini is like 3 men anyway, and since that cunt with the stupid hair injured him he hasn't had chance to show what he can really do against Liverpool. He's capable of destroying a Gerrard-less midfield.
Besides, we packed the midfield against West Ham and were dreadful.
6 Posted 10/01/2011 at 08:27:17
Stick with 4-4-2 and their defence will problems all day long. I'd like to see Saha and Beckford given another chance too as that partnership is starting to look effective.
Neville - Heitinga - Distin - Baines
Coleman - Arteta - Fellaini - Pienarr
Beckford - Saha
7 Posted 10/01/2011 at 08:29:45
11 vs 11, we will have the better team out, no doubt about it. Let's just hope we perform.
8 Posted 10/01/2011 at 08:23:26
The point is the last 9 times we have went there wth 4-5-1 we have not won and lost agaisnt ten me twice. So in my opinion grow a pair and lets change the psyche of the modern Evertonian, he who dares wins-nsno.
9 Posted 10/01/2011 at 08:36:02
Short version 2; you ARE taking the piss...aren't you?.
Not so short version. Did the Spurs game show you nothing, did it go right over your head, in one eye and out the other.
The Moysiah, yet again when forced into a corner, by the slings and arrow of outragious fortune ( don't you just LOVE the Asian cup?? ) has to go with the last forlorn hope, the over his dead body option.
Lo and behold, waddaya know it actually fuckin works, it not only works it works against a team that is ripping the established CL status quo a new arsehole.
It also works at the other end of our footballing spectrum against the knock out sudden death game against a lower league team.
You are a prime example of why care in the community does not work.
10 Posted 10/01/2011 at 09:00:20
Are you insane, Saha and Beckford have shown that they have the making of a partnership, and both obviously play better in a pair.
Liverpool are nothing without that scum bag, and Torres hates playing without him.
We need to go all out at them and shock them.
Rodwell and Feliani in the middle could be an option, but fuck it stick to what is working.
I would go Coleman, Feliani, Arteta, Pienaar. If Pienaar is still injured then bring in Rodwell and put Arteta on the Left.
11 Posted 10/01/2011 at 09:06:14
12 Posted 10/01/2011 at 08:00:56
13 Posted 10/01/2011 at 09:12:19
14 Posted 10/01/2011 at 09:15:25
15 Posted 10/01/2011 at 09:18:17
Colin and many others think we should play for a draw and be happy with that. Perhaps we might just nick one and win it.
Adjust your mind set Colin. We are better than Liverpool now, we have better players. We should no longer think a draw away at that pile of shite is acceptable especially given the turmoil they're in and without their cheating bastard talismanic captain.
As fans we need to let Moyes know that the 'new' system of 2 strikers is the way forward and we need to give every bit of support to that. Calling for us to revert to 4-5-1 will only feed into Moyes' doubts about his recent change of heart and push us back into the same old crap again.
16 Posted 10/01/2011 at 10:00:03
17 Posted 10/01/2011 at 10:07:44
18 Posted 10/01/2011 at 10:06:07
Moyes has not lost in his last two head-to-heads against SAF (scoring six in the process) whilst it was FERGIE who went 4-5-1.
Moyes has systematically spanked that tactical genious Redknapp for 9 years and it was REDKNAPP who played the "cowardly" 4-5 -1 in their latest encounter.
Moyes set up his side to destroy the Shite this season ? we had the deckchairs out for the last half hour ? but WOY didn't change his 4-5-1.
Moyes has never been beaten by Ancelotti ? is he the only Prem manager who can say that? ? Perhaps it's Ancelottis insistence on playing the "negative" 4-5-1.
Moyes hasn't lost to that other tactical genious Mancini ? keeps beating him.
I can't help but laugh at the suggestion that Moyes is somehow tactically naive... where does that leave the rest of them?
19 Posted 10/01/2011 at 10:18:40
Don't take my word for it, just use the evidence of your own eyes.
If not for Cahill's goals that system would have had us staring down the barrel of relegation.
It is the tactic of a coward who hopes his side will nick the winner in a low scoring game.
Sadly it was our opponents that often nicked that winner.
I would suggest we hold our horses until the RS played their mid week game at Blackpool.
It is possible the Dalglish bubble could be punctured by Seasiders raring to go having had a fortnights rest.
20 Posted 10/01/2011 at 10:50:36
From reading the responses to your post I think you will get the drift that 4-5-1 is not the way forward.
On another note, I have heard strong rumours that Moyes is being distanced by the board and that transfer funds, however limited, will NOT be made available. Is he being asked to walk?
21 Posted 10/01/2011 at 10:48:45
We're playing one of the worst redshite teams in their entire history,
and you want us to go to Anfield with a negative attitude? Fuck it, go there and take the fucking piss out of them.
By the way, the reason Saha has looked better, is because he has a striker up there with him, whose pace and movement off the ball has Saha looking like the player we all knew he was. If Moyes drops Beckford, it will be criminal, because the Shite's back four has no pace, and he could run them ragged. If he drops him, it's back to good old Mr Negativity.
22 Posted 10/01/2011 at 10:40:26
Beckford will run them ragged while Louis is left to run riot. Arteta will score a screamer from the edge of the box and we will win 3-1.
Dogleash will resign and they will end up with fat Sam in charge.
They will be relegated and the six points we took off tem would have kept them up.
They will end up in administration and their next derby will be against Tranmere Rovers.
We will be bought by the Quatari royal family and our new ground will be in Stanley Park.
23 Posted 10/01/2011 at 11:00:24
Saha moved into Cahill's position and Beckford moved up front.
24 Posted 10/01/2011 at 11:20:33
If I am correct then that means that Gerrard will NOT be playing in the Derby so surely there is no better time to go to Anfield an play 4-4-2 than now, especially with Louis and Beckford starting to forge a productive partnership up front.
Please, please please Mr Moyes, play 4-4-2 with Louis and Jamaine up front. The Red Shite hate pace aginst their back four and I get this feelin that next weekend could be a memorable one for us Blues.
PPS;- Definately play Coleman (no ifs, no buts)
25 Posted 10/01/2011 at 11:27:09
If it ain't broke then don't fix it. Everton are doing quite well now in the last two games so please Mr Moyes don't fukin change anything.
26 Posted 10/01/2011 at 09:35:00
27 Posted 10/01/2011 at 12:35:43
Besides, if 4-4-2 is working (and it clearly IS working), then why mess with that? We are a good side and we shouldn't be tinkering with our tactics every five minutes out of "awe" for the opposition, if we play well we can beat anybody.
28 Posted 10/01/2011 at 12:46:30
We've all been screaming for Moyes to change the formation and players. Eventually Moyes has been forced to change, reaping the best results this season and now you're saying we should revert back to a formation and approach that wasn't working?
At which point does your idea/theory even start to make any sense?
29 Posted 10/01/2011 at 12:47:04
We have finally started playing some positive football over the past two games ? I don't care who the opposition were ? we have won 2 games, scored goals and the team has finally looked like they are enjoying themselves.
4-5-1 has had its day and a return to that system on Sunday would finally confirm to me that Moyes is a dour negative manager with no balls.
And, aside from anything else, why should we be worrying about them ? they are rubbish and now have their best player missing. They should be worrying about us and that is what Moyes should be drilling into the players all week.
30 Posted 10/01/2011 at 12:57:48
With their self-proclaimed "King" in charge, they will be up for it perhaps more than if Hodgeson was there; but then so should we. This is our best opportunity in years to get 6 points out of them ... 4-4-2 it is please.
31 Posted 10/01/2011 at 12:57:37
We're not going to get a better opportunity than this.
32 Posted 10/01/2011 at 13:10:15
33 Posted 10/01/2011 at 13:06:10
34 Posted 10/01/2011 at 13:09:40
Subs - Mucha Hibbert Jagielka Bilyaletdinov Beckford Rodwell Anichebe
35 Posted 10/01/2011 at 13:26:08
People do realise that you can change a formation in game don't they?
It's quite funny reading the comments of some posters saying that 4-4-2 should be maintained no matter what......wasn't the argument that Moyes maintaining the 4-5-1 a sign of ignorance and stupidity. The oft used and inappropriate Einstein quote being used.
Personally I would go with the 4-4-2,. as their midfield without Stevie Me (No forehead) is gash and their defence is slow and stupid.
The only worry we really have is Torres (and Maxi shooting from range) and without Stevie GBH he is a shadow of his former self but there is always the option to change to 4-5-1 if we look to be getting overrun in midfield. Mourhino changed his teams after 25/30 mins once....many managers could learn from this.
36 Posted 10/01/2011 at 13:26:22
No, it will be won by the team who scores most.
Saha has scored in last 2 games, a key factor in this is Beckford's movement creating space and Saha playing with his face to the goal and not his back.
We have 'won' lots of midfield battles this season. But I want to win the game.
We've had enough draws this year thanks.
Also, Brian #21 ? not far from the truth.
37 Posted 10/01/2011 at 13:30:44
This is stupid.
38 Posted 10/01/2011 at 13:45:15
I was actually disappointed how we dropped off at home despite winning 2-0 and hope we go for it and let them worry about us.
King Kenny ? give me a break, who cares?
39 Posted 10/01/2011 at 13:54:06
40 Posted 10/01/2011 at 14:06:50
Liverpool right now are there for the taking, the heart beat of their team is suspended and they're fucked without him. Carragher is out of it I think and Torres doesn't looked bothered at the moment either and the rest of their team just don't look up to it, don't look good enough, and I think we have a right chance of winning.
The only player we need to watch out for is Kuyt, not cos he's good but cos the cunt as a knack of scoring past us. Their team really is poor right now and if we are positive and play like we did vs Spurs then we can easily win on Sunday. In derbies I know it's hard to be on your game and at your best but we can beat these, they're not the Liverpool of old, they've just lost their manager and their main players are either out suspended or injured or out of form!
People say it will be lost or won in midfield which it very well might be... but, even if we went with two central midfielders, if Felli and Arteta can get a foothold of the midfield early on, I can see us winning it. That would be massively helped if Pienaar is fit cos he brings a lot to the team, defensively as well as attacking-wise.
For me, Moyesy needs to show he believes in these players and thinks they're as good as he does by being positive and going for it next weekend and giving them the confidence and saying to them "I'm sticking with 4-4-2, I believe you're capable of turning these over, I believe you're better than these!"
Like someone as said earlier, if he reverts back to 4-5-1 to start with, then he really is showing what a negative manager he really is, especially at this point when Liverpool really are in the dumps. There's no better time to go for it and be positive against them in my mind; let's go with 4-4-2 and show the fans there that we're going to have a go, get them right on side from the off. When we're winning 2-0 or something with 5 or 10 mins to go, shut up shop and go back to 4-5-1 and see the game out ? but don't see the game in with it!
41 Posted 10/01/2011 at 14:29:39
We win 2 games on trot and score 7 goals in the process and we want to scrap that system and revert back to a formation that hasn't worked all season?!
I have news for you the game is not won in midfield it is won by outscoring the opposition. Something we look ten times more likely to do with 2 strikers up front.
Curious how the forwards are now scoring with 2 up top isn't it! We do not have the players to play an attacking 4-5-1 so it should be scrapped for good.
42 Posted 10/01/2011 at 14:53:34
43 Posted 10/01/2011 at 16:17:19
Let me explain in plain English so it's not too complicated for you.
1) Spurs are the most open team in the premiership - they attack en masse and leave gaps all over the place. We were also at home and so it was the perfect time and opportunity to play 4-4-2.
2) Scunthorpe had lost 6 on the trot AT HOME prior to Saturday - we could have played 4-2-4 and won that one. That game is irrelevant.
My point is a derby game at Anfield, with a new manager playing his 1st home game is just a little bit of a different story to the above, Even those blinded by the notion that 4-4-2 with one striker with dodgy finishing is suddenly the answer to everything can surely see that?
They will flood the midfield and be well and truly up for it - if we are a man lite in there we'll struggle - and having two strikers won't be of any help in that situation. It's not a defesive move - just commonsense.
By the way - didn't we play 4-5-1 versus Man City and produce our best result of the season? In fact I seem to rememebr we battered them in the first 20 minutes. Oh but the 4-4-2 for every game brigade have conveniently forgotten that one.
44 Posted 10/01/2011 at 17:15:24
This season vs the so-called bigger and better teams, we raise our game and have a go. Why not, whilst on the back of two good results and goals scored whilst playing 4-4-2, shouldn't we go for it, considering Liverpool's current predicament, so what if it's Dalglish's homecoming, that might fire them up a little but we'll over come that, we'll rise to it and I'm sure we'll come away with a win.
Don't get me wrong, you have a point with the 4-5-1 cos we were playing okay at times with it, although we weren't getting the goals or results. But we've gone 4-4-2 and the players seem all positive about it and have responded great to it when you see them talking about it on the OS and things. It's as if they feel more comfortable in being in a 4-4-2 and it's breeding positivity and confidence. Anyway, although we play with 2 strikers, Saha drops in at times to make up the 5 when we haven't got the ball, he adds a bit of security. So if you like, when we have the ball it's 4-4-2 but without we still revert to 4-5-1.
45 Posted 10/01/2011 at 17:09:09
I myself am worried about the Dalglish effect. However, I just feel that after such a depressing season, and after the near elation of the last two games, if we revert to type then even though it might be tactically sound, it will kill the new-found confidence of the players AND fans.
We have been to Anfield and Old Trafford with a tactically sound approach many times and been hammered many times. This week, I want to see my club go there with no fear. I want us to believe we can not only win but humiliate them. Let's just fuckin' have it!!!
If we get beat? So what? We have lost there by playing defensively so what's the difference if we lose by playing aggressively? We still get nil points. I believe we must carry on being attack-minded, not just for this game, but for the sake of our season as the comments on here and the atmosphere at Goodison have been truly depressing.
By the way, at the age of 29, am I too old to get a Seamus Coleman poster on my wall? Now that lad has been one of the few things that have kept us goin' this season. Fuckin' love that no fear mentality! Go and get 'em, Seamus lad!!!!
46 Posted 10/01/2011 at 17:32:18
I agree in sentiment with your post and its ironic that the 4-4-2 sticklers are so fervant in their view that 4-5-1 should never be played again. It's actually quite comical. Horses for courses
It's not that Moyes should just say in his best Mike Bassett voice "It will be four four fooking two" he should be good enough a manager to see when a 4-5-1 is needed and when a 4-4-2 is the best formation.
47 Posted 10/01/2011 at 17:31:40
But the fact we're off the back of 2 wins with 7 goals scored (so what if it was only Scunthorpe, you still have to stick the ball in the back of the net when on top, I didn't see United beat em so convincingly in the Carling Cup!), we should carry on being positive and have a go at our rivals, there's no better time to do such a thing in my eyes ? and those of a lot of other Evertonains!
48 Posted 10/01/2011 at 18:13:31
I agree with this sentiment 100%, however I completely disagree with Colin's application of it. Liverpool are vulnerable, they're off form and lack confidence. We should go at them, give them something to worry about and back our players to have enough. As Jamie (4) said, Fellaini is capable of dominating a midfield in a way that I've not really seen for Everton, so I'm not scared of Liverpool playing Raul Meireles, Lucas Leiva, and one other no-mark against us.
There will be games when we should revert to 4-5-1, but this is absolutely not one of them. The other point is that whatever we start off playing can be changed as required using the crazy new 'substitution' rule whereby players sitting on a bench at the side can replace players already on the pitch.
49 Posted 10/01/2011 at 19:49:26
re: Raul Meireles. He is the only player I am worried about. And now with Gerrard banned, he will have a chance to play in the middle and not be wasted out on the wing. Hopefully Fellaini can keep him quiet.
50 Posted 10/01/2011 at 19:41:41
So the improvement had nothing to do with Moyesie dropping him then?
51 Posted 10/01/2011 at 21:00:02
Of course we should stick with 4-4-2.
52 Posted 10/01/2011 at 20:47:23
Match them and we'll stuff 'em; go in like mincing nancy boys and we'll get what we deserve.
Hope the boys are working on a celebratory dance, a la England's Ashes win, to gain maximum media coverage...
53 Posted 11/01/2011 at 00:23:25
Amount of times we have played 4-5-1 since Kevin Campbell's winner? Too many too mention.
Likelihood of either team making it into Europe? Slim to none.
Last League double over them? 1985.
Thats right, a quarter of a century.
And there's still supporters who want Moyes to play 4-5-1.
I shake my head in disbelief.
54 Posted 11/01/2011 at 07:40:37
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