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Yesterday's squad

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I've been thinking about yesterday's squad and the fact that there were a lot of young or younger players in it. We had Anichebe, Vaughan and Rodwell all getting game time as well as Baxter and Gueye on the bench. I know that Jags and Saha are out injured at the moment but off the top of my head I can't think of any other senior players who are injured at present.

Maybe I'm wrong but for me the profile of yesterday's squad could mean one of two things:

Firstly, Moyes is getting ready to ship a load of senior players to balance the books.

Secondly he could feel that the season is already over in terms of a high league placing and he is going to give the youngsters a lot more game time than he normally would at this stage of the season. He may just play a full squad for the FA Cup and see how we go.

It could be just finances forcing the club's hand, but for me, a mid-table finish and a number of decent young players ready for next season would be a decent end to what has been a very disappointing season to date.


Kieran Fitzgerald, Dublin     Posted 17/01/2011 at 17:43:55

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Andy Crooks
1   Posted 17/01/2011 at 18:45:38

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Kieran, your last paragraph just about describes what is available to us and makes sense. I'd certainly like to see Baxter, Gueye and Duffy given a chance. We are now a selling club. Play Rodwell and let him boost his value. Then an inflated sale in the summer. Wrong but pragmatic.
Steve Guy
2   Posted 17/01/2011 at 19:23:04

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Not sure why you say we are a selling club. Surelly if that were the case, we would have sold Pienaar last summer and Jags when the Gooners came calling as just two examples.

Otherwise agree with the option B and think Moyes is looking to bring new blood through sooner rather than later. Don't agree that this means he is selling Rodwell either.
Paul Newman
3   Posted 17/01/2011 at 19:27:44

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Do we have a Striker currently at the club that actually cost a fee?

Can we be neither a buying or a selling club?
Al Reddish
4   Posted 17/01/2011 at 20:24:23

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I think that Moyes knows the time has past for the squad we now have, to achieve champions league footie. It was a calculated gamble to keep the squad together in the summer in the hope of reaching the pot of European money, to the detriment of any new players arriving. (Thanks for that Bill!)!
Moyes will now do what Moyes does best, and that's scour the lower leagues to find maybe a couple of hidden gems, and move on some of the dead wood. It's time to rebuild now and look to the future, as I think this ship has missed it's stop.
Matteo Rosingana
5   Posted 17/01/2011 at 20:35:25

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Think you may be right there Al, sounds like a plan to me.
Al Reddish
6   Posted 17/01/2011 at 20:38:59

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I think it's the only option mate. I see Spurs have now agreed a fee for Pienaar. Harry said he didn't think his board would back him on this one...........oh, to do a swap with Bill ay!
Ryan Holroyd
7   Posted 17/01/2011 at 21:38:14

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totally agree Al. It's clear we are totally skint and Billy Liar and Moyes have decided that we cannot sustain the current squad. We gambled on getting 4th. We are not going to get that so it's time to break up the squad. 3 million for Pienaar, 1 million for Yak 80 grand off the wage bill. We will get Eagles from Burnley. The slow decent will now take place. If people moaned at top 5 finishes then they are in for a hard shock soon when we start reverting to type and start coming 10th - 15th. There is only so many rabbits Moyes can pull out of a hat. Kenwright wants success but wants his manager to do it with half the budget of other clubs.
Gary Willock
8   Posted 17/01/2011 at 21:54:46

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Let me get this straight..

It would cost at least £5m-£6m (wishfull) to get a Pienaar quality player and at least £50k a week in wages?

So, if Pienaar wanted an extra £20k a week on top of this (parity with Arteta?) then the extra 20k would add up to £4m over a four year contract?

So, put simply we COULD have signed Pienaar for £4m....a known player, no gamble, great understanding with existing players, etc?

So, am I completely missing something here or do these maths simply provide the completely depressing PROOF that we are now past zero investment and are officially cost cutting!?!?!?

Suppose there could be an arguement that we could 'pull a gem' on lower wages; but come on...its hardly an odds on gamble.

Poor managment again.
Julian Wait
9   Posted 17/01/2011 at 22:05:22

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@Gary #8 - Regardless of the arithmetic, Pienaar wants CL football and he will get it at Spurs or Chelsea this year, and Spurs seems a better bet for next year than Chelsea at this point.

So he will go to Spurs now or wait to see who qualifies in the summer.

This is the problem .. as stated ad infinitum by others ... unless we're able to guarantee or at least seem likely for European football, we will lose our best players, and who could blame them?

I would expect the RS to start suffering the same problem about ... now ..

I say we thank Pienaar, applaud him when he returns, and move on without him, because that's the reality.
Dick Fearon
10   Posted 17/01/2011 at 21:30:01

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Let's face it, except for the FA Cup we are out of the running for any real success. Once the terror of relegation is settled I would like to see a clear out of those players who are past and those who have never been good enough. That scenario would be ideal for giving youngsters a good run.

Osman and Hibbert may have qualities good enough for a mid table team but they fall well short of one that has top four aspirations. I can think of a few others that fit into that category as I am sure many of you will agree. Each time one of those players pulls the shirt on a young one misses out on vital experience.

It is plainly ridiculous that Rodwell, Vaughan and other youngsters miss out while has-beens and never-have-beens hold down places. The current situation provides Moyes with a golden opportunity to expose our youngsters to the rigours of first team football.

It may seem a cavalier sink or swim approach yet more of the same old same old is too dreary to contemplate.

Martin Handley
11   Posted 17/01/2011 at 21:55:18

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Before we hit the panic button, let's look at what's happening here a 29-year-old winger/midfielder who has probably played his best football for this club is going to leave and be replaced by a 19-year-old French kid whose best years lie ahead of him and whose head is in the right place, also we still have some pretty good players left behind don't we?

Howard ? one of the best keepers around.
Baines ? Best left back in Prem.
Distin ? Good solid preformer.
Heittinga ? World class C/B.
Neville ? Great Skipper.
Bily ? Frustrating but capable of brilliance
Fellaini ? Envy of every other team
Rodwell ? Future blues/England skipper
Coleman ? Stevie who?
Beckford ? Goals are starting to come
Gueye ? Given chance could be class

And that's without mentioning Jags, Arteta, Duffy, Silva etc. Look it's not rose tinted glasses I'm using just trying to put it into perspective that we're just selling a 29-year-old winger/whinger who thinks that London's streets are paved with gold that we're losing.... So thanks for the memories Stevie see you when you're warming the bench for some cockney shite next season!

Christine Foster
12   Posted 17/01/2011 at 22:17:37

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Since the end of last season I have said that Moyes needed to start rebuilding the next first team squad utilising the money from the sale of some to bring in fresh blood.
They are comments which saw many, including MK, have a right go at.

We are have way through the transfer window and the process has obviously begun in Moyes eyes, the Yak and Pienaar gone and I suspect others will follow. The problem is nothing looks like coming in either on loan or with any money we do get.

It does appear that Moyes has written this season off and will use whats left of the current squad at the end of January to blood them for next season or attempt to bring in one or two players in the summer.

The good news in this is that Moyes will have to play some youngsters and change the formation, the bad news is no new blood now to replace what goes. Its a real gamble considering we are only 4 point above a struggle.

Does that mean Moyes has no choice in the matter? Gary (8) asks if we are officially cost cutting which is a totally different thing to having no money to buy players. The cake just seems to be getting smaller and smaller..
Wayne Smyth
13   Posted 17/01/2011 at 23:16:47

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We could give Pienaar parity with Arteta(hugely overvalued imho), but not only would it cost us another 20,30 or 40k / week, but we now have felli and maybe others knocking on Moyes door.

We have a wage structure, if people dont like it they should ship out.

That said, our squad is very, very thin in terms of strikers who can score regularly. We probably have one of the worst frontlines in the prem. I think a mid-table finish this season is about as good as we could hope for, which is a shame because a lot of the teams in front of us are not actually that good.

I'd actually rather Moyes pick up bargain basement buys and keep the wages low. Artetas head has not been the same since he signed his new contract. Felli is head and shoulders above him in terms of performances....and height obviously. :)
Sam Hoare
14   Posted 18/01/2011 at 00:02:54

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So long as the money got from Pienaar is used to get Felli on a long term contract i won't mind. In my eyes he is comfortably our most talented player and possibly on his way to becoming a truly top class midfielder.

Let get Dale Jennings and if he is is good as he looks then in 3 years time we could have a truly awesome midfield of

Jennings-rodwell-fellaini-Coleman

All aged between 21 and 25 (i think).

Claire Cavendish
15   Posted 18/01/2011 at 00:58:24

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It's never ideal to lose one of your first team regulars and we will miss Pienaar in the short term. However, it was encouraging to see how many young players were part of the squad at the weekend, and most of them got some game time. We do need to re-organise and build for the future and we have the basis of a good young squad.
We do need some new additions, and we do need to keep playing positive attacking football to keep confidence of fans and players high.
Not sure either of those last two points will occur but I'm hoping.
Eric Myles
16   Posted 18/01/2011 at 01:19:13

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I hope he hasn't given up in getting a high league placing considering how close we are to the relegation zone.
Sega Kana
17   Posted 18/01/2011 at 01:28:59

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Glad the sales have taken place now and was very encouraged by the squad performance in the derby. Yes, a very young line-up and they did well in the 2nd half. Totally agree with AL #4.
Andy Peers
18   Posted 18/01/2011 at 04:33:48

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Gary at # 8, Your math is correct and sadly it was Pienaar and Management that has had this planned for a while that he would leave for a fee now or in the summer for free. I don,t understand why 2 top clubs are bidding against each other for a 10-15 million pound player but they are in the 2-3 million pound range. I always thought that supply and demand was what raised the price, didn,t Arsenal want Jags for 15 million? Everton have to have a better business perspective if we are to survive in the Premiership.
Matthew Lovekin
19   Posted 18/01/2011 at 07:40:13

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I don't think that Moyes played the youngsters out of choice in the derby. They played because we didn't have any other choices.
Richard Parker
20   Posted 18/01/2011 at 08:36:32

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I think it's safe to say that if no-one arrives by the end of the month, we're officially fucked financially.
Liam Reilly
21   Posted 18/01/2011 at 08:51:20

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Tottenham and Chelsea both know that they'll recoup a lot more than 2-3 million if it doesn't work out and they decide to sell him in the summer, so why not agree to pay Pienaar what he wants, tie him down to a 4 year deal and then ship him out in the summer.
Brian Waring
22   Posted 18/01/2011 at 10:35:03

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Martin, I can see where your coming from. But Neville and Distin are both 34 years of age. Heitinga looked far from happy before Jags got injured, what happens if Moyes sticks Jags straight back in in place of Heitinga, because Moyes will do it?

Bily, can't even get a start, thats how much Moyes thinks of his £9m signing, I mean, how long is he going to be willing to stick around?

Guaye is an unknown commodity, so could be class, but could easily be shite. Silva, I haven't heard a jot about him being anything special, to tell you the truth, I actually forgot about him.

Rodwell, Fellaini, Jags could all be players sacrificed to bring in some cash, because we are that skint. Also, how long are our better players going to stick around, if it looks like the club is going nowhere?

I know your trying to be positive, but I just don't see things as you do.
Anthony Hughes
23   Posted 18/01/2011 at 11:08:21

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I applaud your positive assessment of our squad Martin. Realistically though if we were that good we would be up there challenging and the table doesn't lie. I think there's going to be some serious wheeling and dealing the next few transfer windows just to maintain our present position. We may be lucky with our youngster, Duffy may prove to be good, likewise Gueye but the likes of Baxter only gets a slot on the bench when there's no one else left to pick. Is it just me but is Rodwell just not doing enough in games when he plays or is brought on. He's been around the squad/first team for a few seasons now and i just like to see him come on and really get a grip of a game. Aside from a couple of good cameo performances i just feel that he's playing within himself. I know it's abit off to compare him with Wilshire at Arsenal as he's playing with quality players around him but Wilshire seems to be coming on leaps and bounds and taking games by the scruff of the neck.
If he's to be touted as a future club/country captain then i think he needs to show us more.
Andrew Ellams
24   Posted 18/01/2011 at 11:20:03

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I think it is time to freshen up the squad and replacing Pienaar and the Yak are probably fair starting points.

The only problem is, we need more cash than we are going to get for them to buy equivalent players that are going to hit the ground running, or we have to buy youngsters and be prepared to take a couple more seasons like this one whilst they develop
Ryan Rosenberg
25   Posted 18/01/2011 at 12:00:05

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Dale Jennings:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axnY3auosDU
This guy looks class. Has been dubbed one of England's biggest prospects in the future. Hopefully he is the pacy-attacking winger we've been crying out for. One for the future, get on.
Tom Rowe
26   Posted 18/01/2011 at 13:29:04

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The 'three of four' players Moyes mentioned that were missing at the weekend were: Jagielka, Pienaar, Saha and Cahill. All of which are pretty much first names on the team sheet. I have no Idea who Pienaar will be replaced with but his immediate replacement will be Osman and Bily and they will have to battle it out. Any incoming players will be loans ie. Muntari or otherwise of that ilk. They wont be guaranteed starters like Pienaar. They will also have to battle Cahill to get in the team when he returns. I think Moyes will make do and if any signings are made, again they will be youngsters to blood for the future.
This isn't in any way a negative post. Osman has had a couple of decent games, set up Beckford for the second. Great little engine on him and takes far too much stick. I dont think Pienaar will be a great loss as we are getting back more than we paid for him, and moyes can re-invest where he sees fit. You can't argue that he hasn't invested well the little money he has had if you compare our midfield and defence to the one he inherited.
Just give the management a break and let them get on with it.
Colin Prendergast
27   Posted 18/01/2011 at 13:57:50

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I've got to say I'm baffled by some people's desire to label Gueye as potentially class. Where's the evidence? I know we're desperate for a decent wide player especially with Pienaar heading off but surely that's just clutching at straws. I'm guessing he's not going to be much cop given the limited game time he's getting. And I'm sure it's not just a case of Moyes not playing him 'cos he's desperate to play Osman there.
Paul Gladwell
28   Posted 18/01/2011 at 13:57:49

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The issue of Arteta playing shite has made the Pienaar issue worse.
If Arteta was justifying his big wage we would all say well he deserves it he is better than pienaar, but the fact is Pienaar this season has been twice the player Arteta is.
We cannot afford too many players on that wage so we were never going to offer him the same wage.
Dont be suprised if we see Arteta getting pushed out in the summer, as to me if we are going to play 4-4-2 he does not appear to have the legs to be the more attacking one of the two centre mids and he could not lace Fellainis boots in that holding role.
James Hollister
29   Posted 18/01/2011 at 14:49:13

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Anichebe, Vaughan I have no idea why these two lads are allowed anywhere near the first team.

Firstly they have done fuck all to deserve being in the first team and more importantly secondly....these two lads are nothing but hype with no delivery.

I know we need more players...but for god's sake surely Guyere should be ahead of either of these two lads who really aren't prem league quality.

Anichebe...I am still shaking my head...just how the hell does he warrant a place in the first team with no ability??
Ben Dyke
30   Posted 18/01/2011 at 16:05:09

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I can't believe the club gets questioned this much when a player like Pienaar leaves; same with Rooney. I love Everton and it's in my blood etc and family line but football is a career for 15 years and then it's over. I would go for Champions League football and trophies every time and I am an Evertonian!! The club never pushes people. If we could have guaranteed CL and the prospect of trophies and further squad improvement then Pienaar would have stayed but we can't...
Thomas Williams
31   Posted 19/01/2011 at 03:46:22

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Out of our 18-man squad yesterday, nine of them cost nothing, half the squad with zero outlay, the rest cost £48.5M, plus the four missing costing £11.5M, plus Yak and Yobo on loan an extra 15.5M, 75.5M for the whole squad!!

If you take into account we sold Rooney, Jeffers, Ball and Dunne (who also cost nothing) for £47M, Lescott for £22-24M, not to mention AJ, Beattie, McFadden and now Pienaar, effectively means we have spent nothing on players in the last 7 years... so where is the money going? Wages? No, we are 14th in that league.

So to sum up, despite spending nothing on players and having the smallest squad and so less wages, our revenue having gone from £45M to £78-80M over the last 3 years, also spent nothing on the ground since PJ left, but our debt has gone from £26M under PJ to £80M currently... How? And why?

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