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Administration

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Apparently there are very strong rumours that Everton are very close to going into administration. Kenwright is trying to get some Hollywood pals to take on shares to head off the banks. Yak and Pienaar were pushed through to ease finances and we are encouraging Spurs to take Neville off the payroll.

I got a text to this effect this morning and a guy I know has had something similar from a few different people.

Probably a load of nonsense. Thought I'd throw it out there to see what others had heard because, if it's true, it's relegation. Worring times.


Martin  Graves, Wirral     Posted 26/01/2011 at 11:29:14

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Gareth Humphreys
1   Posted 26/01/2011 at 13:01:33

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Just heard a rumour that we are on the verge of administration and that BK is desperately trying to stave it off ? via the Yak, Pienaar and Neville.
Aidy Dews
2   Posted 26/01/2011 at 13:05:28

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Gareth, where've you been mate? There was rumours of that going about yesterday, apparently it's bollocks, and anyway, if it was on the horizon we have saleable assets such as Rodwell, Felli, Arteta, Jags, Baines, Coleman etc to deal with such an issue. It wouldn't come to administration if we sold most of them beforehand but we'd be fucked afterwards team-/squad-wise!
Chris Keightley
3   Posted 26/01/2011 at 13:54:50

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We are hanging on by a thread... administration would be the end of Everton as we know it as we will find ourselves in the Championship with our jewells well and truely gone.

Let's hope its a rumour but, as the saying goes, there is no smoke without fire.
Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
4   Posted 26/01/2011 at 13:53:02

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Probably a load of nonsense... but you can understand how such rumours would gather pace on the 2 + 2 basis. Yak, Pienaar, no transfers in, accounts not published...

I don't like for us to promote such rumours but in the current circumstances it makes no difference whether we do or not. So take it with your very own self-sized quantum of salt: grain, pinch, barrel-load.
Anthony Hughes
5   Posted 26/01/2011 at 13:57:44

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Probably is a load of crap but I don't think anyone of us would be surprised if it happened.
Nick Entwistle
6   Posted 26/01/2011 at 14:02:36

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There's been a number of posts recently that have made me think there are some rs infiltrating the site. Bad form I know, but this is one of them.
Sean Smythe
7   Posted 26/01/2011 at 14:08:13

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Very worried at first, but the more I think about it I don't think so. I doubt we'd have put in any sort of loan offer for Mbokani if we were in that much trouble, and Moyes stated that we have.
Erik Dols
8   Posted 26/01/2011 at 14:08:11

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Going into administration would be like a new signing! I blame Hibbert.
Kevin Tully
9   Posted 26/01/2011 at 14:18:04

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No chance. They would sell Rodwell & Jagielka for around £ 40M if it came to the crunch.

Anothe theory is that there may be some daft fucker who wants to purchase a football club. That may be the reason there is no news from the club, and a reduction in the wage bill.

You do get the feeling something is about to break.
Shaun Brennan
10   Posted 26/01/2011 at 14:28:13

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Reading this makes me want to say "WOW"

But as Chris No1 does say, no smoke with out fire.

Kev I don't think Rodwell and Jags would raise a quick £40m either.

Nick fould play, don't think Martin is a RS. He wrote a article a while back, "Are you a middle man"
Andrew Bankes
11   Posted 26/01/2011 at 14:35:45

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I asked the Echo's Greg O'Keefe if he knew anything about these rumours and he said:

@andrew_bankes not true according to the club. Rumours started on a forum

I hope he's right, although I have to admit that I struggle to believe anything that the club ever says!
David Thomas
12   Posted 26/01/2011 at 14:47:28

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Absolute load of shite. If we were going into administration do you not think they would have tried to offload the likes of Fellaini, Rodwell, Arteta and Jagielka etc in this transfer window as they would bring millions into the club?
Shaun Brennan
13   Posted 26/01/2011 at 15:09:20

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Offload the likes of Fellaini, Rodwell, Arteta and Jagielka etc presuming there were willing buyers.

Would you include Neville in this list?
Craig Taylor
14   Posted 26/01/2011 at 15:14:57

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Get Rid Of This Board Now!!!!
Tony McNulty
15   Posted 26/01/2011 at 15:19:01

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How much do you reckon we'd get for ToffeeWeb?

Captive audience which puts up with endless shit from the club, wide skill base, strong opinions, enthusiastic, mad, endless analytical capability, high entertainment value, computer literacy skills, on-going pursuit of lost causes...

Brian Waring
16   Posted 26/01/2011 at 15:22:21

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I also think it's a load of crap. But this is where the club should come out and deny that there is any truth in these rumours.
Gareth Fieldstead
17   Posted 26/01/2011 at 15:04:35

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I too think this is just a rumour started by some very frustrated Evertonians! Considering we have not bought anyone since Yakubu when we havent had to sell first, and you add the fact of the 09 FA Cup run, Europe last season, the imminent sale of Bellefield, the new deal with Chang (which they apparently got the money for up front), record merchandise sales, plus the loan deals for Yobo and Vaughan then ?unless Green or Earl have demanded their money back ? then I cannot see how oyr finances have changed so dramatically from a year ago.

Even taking into account the new improved deals for the likes of Arteta, Coleman, Cahill, Baines and Anichebe, Everton continue to make money from several areas, notably satelite television amongst others.

David Thomas
18   Posted 26/01/2011 at 15:31:21

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Shaun,

If a company was going into administration they would be getting rid of their assets that would generate the most money ASAP.

Off the top of my head they were the names that came to my mind that would generate the most money in transfer fees.

There would be willing buyers because the club would have to sell them at lower the value they would value the player at in order to acvhieve a quick sale.

As this is not going on i would suggest this story is a load of shite.
Robert Elliott
19   Posted 26/01/2011 at 15:51:09

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With the kind of world we live in, and the way rumours very quickly spread, I would've thought there would be some sort of media attention on this if true, and certainly other clubs in and around us would be starting to sniff around the likes of Jags, Rodwell and Fellaini. Can you imagine old twitchy at Spurs not making a cheeky effort to sign some, if not all of them for a start?

As for whether the club should deny this, I would imagine they don't feel the need to confirm or deny every rumour that appears on the internet. After all, Bill would have no time left for his 24/7 search for new investment if he did that would he?
Tony J Williams
20   Posted 26/01/2011 at 16:03:38

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Apparently we have been going into Administration since we sold Ronney... next week's breaking news ? the invention of the wheel.
Roberto Birquet
21   Posted 26/01/2011 at 16:03:08

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Dave Thomas must have it right. Why give Arteta £75k a week, when we could have sold him for £15-20 million?

Would make no sense. But as Michael says, you can understand why such worries will gain ears when we sell and don't buy despite resorting to Beckford and anichebe as our attacking pair. With all due respect, one of them alongside Saha is fair enough. But the pair leading the line? It's little wonder the side is lacking confidence.

And now Mboki whathisname is off to Germany. Where do we go? Certainly, we can't sell Vaughan.

Ste Traverse
22   Posted 26/01/2011 at 16:06:30

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Sad thing is even if it's true and we went into Administation,we'd STILL have fans defending Kenwright.
Brian Waring
23   Posted 26/01/2011 at 16:05:26

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Thing is though Robert, and I agree they shouldn't need to come out to deny all rumours. I think this is a rumour that does need the club to come out and make some sort of statement.

At the end of the day, we are moving players on, there doesn't look like we will have any new arrivals, the accounts are late etc. As soon as this rumour started to circulate, the club should have nipped it in the bud imediately.
Tony J Williams
24   Posted 26/01/2011 at 16:09:44

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Not many Ste, all they are defending is his right to be skint.
Ste Blundell
25   Posted 26/01/2011 at 16:09:30

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Some other knobhead posted the same thing on NSNO last night, word for word.

I got a text from a very good source that Everton aren't about to go into administration. What a shocker!!

I got a second text to say that the RS are bust and King Kenny has to sell his medals to buy players. What a shocker!!
Martin Graves
26   Posted 26/01/2011 at 16:10:11

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Definitely not a RS Thanks!!! Been a ST holder for 26 years despite being only 30 (a very lucky 4 year old thanks to my Dad!).

I'm just really concerned at the club, with, what is it, £80 million of liabilities? Companies like experian saying we're technically insolvent? When the club doesnt publish accounts, effectively freezes shareholders out of the AGM, makes no real investment for 6 transfer windows (Fellaini = bought with money from Johnson and McFadden sales, etc), refuses to comment on such stories?

It's only really forums like ToffeeWeb where you can air frustration and get a discussion going.
Tony J Williams
27   Posted 26/01/2011 at 16:10:39

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Where does that stop though Brian? What rumours are worthy of their attention and which are not? I now want to start a rumour about Rachel Unitt, so her picture gets plastered on the website....hmmmmm Rachelll
Martin Graves
28   Posted 26/01/2011 at 16:14:51

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Oh and Ste (23),

Thanks for calling me a knobhead....

Tony J Williams
29   Posted 26/01/2011 at 16:18:25

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Martin, look on Companies House website, it states next accounts are due 28/02/11. Another month to go yet.
Martin Graves
30   Posted 26/01/2011 at 16:24:42

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Thanks, Tony.

In the Diary that one!! I'll wait with baited breath I suppose. If we get through the window without selling anyone else I'll be happy(ish) if I'm honest. And that statement is a sorry state of affairs...
Chris Lawlor
31   Posted 26/01/2011 at 16:20:56

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You know, if we went into administration, dropped down the leagues, and had to build a new squad under new management and ownership, would it be the worst thing in the world if it meant a new beginning, a la Leeds? It looked like they were doomed forever when they went down and they are now a resurgent club with an ambitious young manager and a stable boardroom whilst retaining their large fanbase...

I dont think the story is true but, if it was, I don't think it would be a complete disaster.

Or have I given up already....

Martin Graves
32   Posted 26/01/2011 at 16:36:44

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Personally, I think it would be an absolute disaster ? does anyone look at Leeds in the same vein anymore? It used to be a place Everton feared going (was it no victory there for 50 years?). Then they became a laughing stock.

Not sure I'd fancy away trips to Brentford and Scunthorpe each week. Oh wait.....
Colin Malone
33   Posted 26/01/2011 at 16:37:44

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If we would of hit the ground running from last season, which was expected, then we would have been right up there, which generates money, Sky money, Europe money.... but it has not happened; players won't even come on loan. So it's all about what happens on the pitch, which is not good at all.

Still think it's a load of crap, but Kenwright has to come clean.

Tony Waring
34   Posted 26/01/2011 at 16:41:30

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Do we know for sure that Earl & Green have "lent" cash to Everton? If so, how much and why would they do so in the first place because I'm damn sure that Green definitely is no philanthropist and even though he's a mate of BK he surely didn't think he was investing in a musical... or was it a Blues Club ?
Marc Williams
35   Posted 26/01/2011 at 16:25:25

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It's always the same this time of year under this regieme & players have often been sold to provide enough cash to bridge the gap.

With gates down, no Euro footy, wages up, probably less merchandise sales (due to recession & poor perforance of team) as well as finance costs rocketing it's got to be grimmer than normal.

Kenwright's business model was always a gamble & he has now played all his cards. I've no doubt we are currently cost-cutting as well as 'fire selling' the only assets we have left, the players, in an attempt to keep on living hand to mouth.

If we carry on like this it's only a matter of time until the inevitable administration happens but it will take more than text rumours to convince me we are there just yet.

Terry Beeken
36   Posted 26/01/2011 at 16:49:35

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Well I am taking a positive view and BK is on the verge of selling and so thinks, "Fuck it, why should I spend in this transfer window if I am no longer going to be the owner!!!"

Nurse... nurse... more medicine please.

Brian Waring
37   Posted 26/01/2011 at 16:49:15

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I know what you're saying, Tony, but ? with unrest amongst the fans, now Vaughan has gone back to Palace, so 3 players out, and looking like none on the horizon coming in ? I think this is one of those times that the club needed to say something.
Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
38   Posted 26/01/2011 at 16:52:51

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Fucking hell, Nick (#6), it's a shitload more than "bad form" to me. How many times do I have to warn people about waiving this 'RS' flag at anyone who posts something you don't seem to like? What sort of knee-jerk bullshit is that?

If you have a genuine concern that a poster is a redshite, then send us direct feedback, justifying your claim. Otherwise... BACK OFF!!

You know, your broader insinuation that there are other RS posters on here is totally unacceptable. This is an Everton forum. If you do not accept that, you know what you can do... In, fact, I'll do it for you.

David Israel
39   Posted 26/01/2011 at 16:58:47

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It makes no sense to me, however poor the state of our finances may be. Like many people said here, if the situation was all that desperate there would have been a fire sale this month.

Let's hope it's a takeover in the offing, as Kevin Tully # 9 suggests.
James Cadwaladr
40   Posted 26/01/2011 at 17:16:05

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This is what happens when you mortgage future TV and season ticket revenue and give up incremental revenue streams such as retail and catering. The company I work for supply the club - always looking for the cheapest option / quick buck that helps immediate cashflow with no fore thought about future revenues.

I'll explain fully the situation with my company in private or when I have left as I will get sacked if I post in public and get found out for commerical reasons

Put bluntly we charge Everton over £100,000 p/a for several years for rental of product when they should have bought it for a higher outlay but with a 10 year life cycle of product would save over £750k during the life cycle as well as having an additional revenue option but they either dont get the revenue opportunity or dont know how to commercialise it.

The commercial operation of the business is a joke.
Larry Boner
41   Posted 26/01/2011 at 17:32:23

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Clubs that drop down, but come back, Man City only club in Manchester, Newcaslle Utd, only club in Newcastle, Sunderland, Leeds Utd, etc - Everton compete with Liverpool, we drop we die, simples.
Tom Owen
42   Posted 26/01/2011 at 17:13:43

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As I have previously stated, why does Kenwright not come out and give a statement on affairs at the club? He is responsible for our club. Our children and grandchildren will be supporting Everton Football Club long after he is gone. If he can no longer support Moyes and benefit the club he should go. I am tired of his "my blood runs blue" routine.

We all feel the same... but he and only he is holding our great club back. Kirkby is dead ? that was Kenwright's hope. Now let's move on with new owners with investment, ie, the Qatar royal family.

And for all those that say no to change, you cheer an American when he saves a certain goal, you cheer a Spaniard who creates a goal. Football is global. We are sponsored by a Thai brewery not a Merseyside company. Let us all look at the bigger picture and not be blinkered.

Bertie Alloff
43   Posted 26/01/2011 at 17:49:55

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Er Mr. Boner, I don't think Man City are the only club in Manchester, but the name of the other club escapes me....
Alan Clarke
44   Posted 26/01/2011 at 17:52:48

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There's no immediate threat of administration but the fella on the bet fair forum who obviously works for the club says the players haven't been paid this month. Someone I know from the medical side at Everton has confirmed this. Perhaps this accounts for the lacklustre display against West Ham.
Ste Traverse
45   Posted 26/01/2011 at 18:00:03

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Administration is a scarey thought.

It seems Bungling Bill's gamble of hoping Moyes could get us into the Champions League on the cheap, and the club could become self-sufficient and he could keep control of the trainset, has backfired spectacularly.
Paul Whittaker
46   Posted 26/01/2011 at 17:15:49

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Neville, in my opinion, is the key indicator for me. If he is sold before the transfer window shuts, which you would have to believe would be against Moyes wishes, then this is a clear indication that the club are under serious pressure to cut costs.

The silence from the club is deafening ? they must read ToffeeWeb etc, so must be only too aware of the fans' hysteria and the damaging rumours generated on internet chat forums and the press. One statement on the official website from either Kenwright or Elstone would blow all these damaging rumours out of the water. So why are they not doing that...?

Kristian Boyce
47   Posted 26/01/2011 at 17:27:10

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The rumour af administration has been floating around for years, and I think some years have been closer than others. I do think that there are signs presently that lead to a bleak outlook for the club. I think a big indicator of the amount of trouble we are in is if we do let Phil Neville go to Spurs. I know there is another thread running about this as well, but he is Moyes's man in the squad and the club captain. Before the transfer window opened, if you asked any Everton fan who in their opinion would be the last player Moyes sell, most of us would have Neville in our responses (followed by Osman & Hibbert). Getting £2 million for a 34-year-old maybe a great deal, but is that money going to be reinvested into the team, I doubt Moyes would see a penny of it, just like Pienaar money also.

For the last two summers, we've been waiting for some big signings to come in, once the Sky TV money gets deposited, which I believe is around mid-August. As we all know, none of the money has gone on signings, with Distin, Bily & Heitinga coming in from the money received from the Lescott deal.

There was also the embarrassment of this years window with the sum total of around £1.5 Mil was spent on a couple of kids and a League One player. Signs aren't looking good. The Sky monies are anywhere from £40-60 million for those 2 years, and I know money was spent tying up contracts for a host of players, but where is the rest going to?

It's interesting that the rumours circulating about our financial trouble within the fansites, that a national newspaper prints a piece about Moyes should sell £50 Mil of talent and reinvest. I think this is the one thing that has kept us from insolvency the last 3-4 years is that we have value on the pitch. To value our playing squad is a difficult job, but I reckon going through the squad list we have a value from £80-100 million. That might be a bit generous but Moyes has a knack of getting a premium for our players. But selling the majority of the squad, where does that leave us?

Lastly, to put an end to my ramblings, does anyone remember the last time we heard from Kenwright? It's been surprisingly very quiet the last few months from him and even Elstone. Obviously the excuse is that he's working 24/7 for us, but normally he pipes up and bleats out some junk about signings/investors/whatever. It might be nice not having to listen to him make some pointless comments, but the silence from his camp, it doesn't help to quell the growing unrest/concern within the fanbase (or does he only speak when we are in the top half of the table?). It's also interesting that Moyes is using his usual media outputs as well to talk about the lack of money and investment he has, and the fear of standing still and not progressing, more digs at Bill & the Board.

Dennis Stevens
48   Posted 26/01/2011 at 18:30:35

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My only hope is that any financial tidying/tightening up is in anticipation of a takeover & we may at last be rid of the current Board. However, I must admit my hopes aren't high!
John Shaw
49   Posted 26/01/2011 at 18:36:23

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Just a couple of points:-

The accounts ar NOT late, a company has NINE months from the end of it's financial year to file them, EFC's is 31st May, hence the deadline of 28th Feb. (I actually think they filed them in Feb 10 for the year to 31st May 09)

We didn't spend the Lescott money in 2009, we received the vast bulk of it upfront, as is normal for transfers carried out in this country, however, a large portion of the fees for both Heitinga and Bily are over a number of years, (this was actually reported at the time), as is the norm for transfers with European league teams, which actually makes our transfer history of recent years look worse.
Karl Jones
50   Posted 26/01/2011 at 18:50:27

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God, how depressing this is... Every transfer window throws up rumours such as this on here.
How can we be on the verge of administration? Almost every transfer fee has been recouped through sales. We almost always sell someone before we buy.

"We will not put the future of the club in jeapardy" is quoted verbatim by Moyes at every window... We're no Leeds, Portsmouth or Liverpool model, so I just cant see it.

Do the maths... Despite all that, something just doesn't seem right at the moment. Hopefully a respectable takeover bid is imminent.

John McLoughlin
51   Posted 26/01/2011 at 19:03:49

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It's a load of rubbish. The txt I received began, "heard from a strong source the blueshite are going into administration". It's been started by reds on a forum and we all know we are amongst the most paranoid of fans.

I started a rumour equally without evidence about being bought out by a billionaire this week, funny how only one took off. We've recently given longer more expensive contracts to two players, hardly the actions of a club going into administration. Also, oneof the clubs adviser's are going into administration. Mix this with the terrible state of the club, and our paranoia, and you get a good rumour.

David Thomas
52   Posted 26/01/2011 at 19:07:17

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Karl 51,

Agree 100%. There is something about these times in the season when people decide to add 2 and 2 together and get 5, or just simply make up rumours.

Steve Burgess
53   Posted 26/01/2011 at 19:14:49

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Working in a sector that is currently facing financial difficulties, the last thing we are doing is renewing contracts if we don't need to. New deals for Coleman (sensible) and Anichibe (questionable) suggest that this rumour is way off mark.
Sean McCarthy
54   Posted 26/01/2011 at 19:13:46

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Has anyone remembered the name of that other Manchester team yet?? Don't you hate it when it's on the tip of your tongue but you just can't think of it........ Manchester Town!! That's it!! Err.. No that's not right either, is it!!
David Hallwood
55   Posted 26/01/2011 at 19:20:45

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Steve (#54) ? that may be right, but the rumour passes the duck test with flying colours. We really need Kenwright or one of the board, to come out and explain what direction the club is going in.
Robert Elliott
56   Posted 26/01/2011 at 19:23:42

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Reasons why I don't believe this:?

1. We gave new contracts to a number of players in the summer and recently further renewed one of them (Coleman) to reflect his improved performances. One of the contracts included the reputed £75,000 per week to Mikel Arteta, easily a club record, at a time when we could've easily sold him for an eight figure fee given his performances at the end of last year.

2. We've not seen/heard anything of this is any reputable media outlet. When Leeds and Portsmouth started to hit the skids the media were all over it and fire sales of players began almost immediately.

3. The club turned down an offer from Spurs for Neville only three weeks ago. This was confirmed by Moyes and Redknapp in press conferences.

4. The sale of Pienaar simply reflects the fact that he was out of contract in six months time and wasn't going to sign another one. He also made it clear he wanted to leave to play CL football. We then got an offer that allowed us to make a profit on the fee we'd paid for him in the first place. Hard not to say yes to that deal.

5. Moyes has clearly decided that Yakubu is not in his plans and is ready to move him on. He probably hoped in the summer that he could get back to his best, hence knocking back the West Ham bid, but after watching him play at the start of the year he has now changed his mind. Letting him leave now, even on loan, does get him off the books, puts him in the shop window and allows Yakubu himself to play regular football. I would say much the same applies to Vaughan. Clearly, with Saha, Beckford, Anichebe and Cahill to come back, Moyes feels we have enough cover to get through to the end of the year, particularly as, if we lose on Saturday, we'll only have 15 games left.

6. Moyes has never been one to make a big splash in January. I remember him getting absolutely killed by supporters in the January window in 2006 when he flogged Marcus Bent and Per Krøldrup and didn't bring anyone in. So much so that he released a statement on the official site in which he defended his actions, or non-actions if you like.

To summarise, it's clear that we are not in the best of financial health, but I don't believe we're entering shit creek just yet. It's more like we've hit the limit on our credit card and cannot borrow any more. That means a sell-to-buy policy, but not quite yet a sell-to-survive one.

Of course, how much longer we can carry on into the future like this is another matter!
Ste Blundell
57   Posted 26/01/2011 at 19:36:35

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No probs, Martin. It just seems to me that there is an awful lot of shite being bandied around at the moment and your post seemed to take the hysteria to a new and frankly ridiculous level. No offence meant, I'm just fed up of this kind of the nonsense.
Jimmy Hacking
58   Posted 26/01/2011 at 20:07:39

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No money. No investment on the horizon. Players sold and not replaced. Downturn in form. Players given away to the Championship to reduce our wage bill.

What do you mean... GOING into administration?
Darren Dempsey
59   Posted 26/01/2011 at 19:59:53

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Sorry to state the obvious but we're in shit street. On the positive side there doesn't seem to be many teams splashing the cash this window! But I'm all for getting rid of our comical yet not funny board! WE WANT CHANGE NOW!!!! COYB
Martin Graves
60   Posted 26/01/2011 at 20:25:33

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Fair enough, Ste.

It was the first I'd heard and normally someone says "yeah, it's rubbish" or something.

Without wanting to bring Stevie-G-la, and the dark side into it, but I received a text about him in the summer with some disparaging remarks and the Liverpool Echo, the RS and various other sources including Dave Prentice were out straight away to quash and rubbish the rumours.

I would have expected someone to respond to something this big, but maybe they receive 10 like this a day. Just wanted to put it out there to rubbish it myself more than anything.
Matt Brown
61   Posted 26/01/2011 at 20:36:06

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Anyone else remember this bullshit on the OS, 27 August 2010 -

Everton chairman Bill Kenwright says there's money available for a major signing before the market closes.

Kenwright has revealed there remains a possibility of a further addition if the manager feels there is a player who would add something to his squad before the closure of the transfer window at the end of the month.

Kenwright told evertonfc.com: "We discuss it every day. Whether he wants new arrivals at the moment I'm not sure. There's always money available, it's not much I have to say this season.

"We've made a few transfers and if the manager found someone he really, really wanted that was within a price range ? or if he maybe did a bit of wheeler dealing.

"But I don't think that's top of his list at the moment. He's really pleased with the squad that he's got. I don't know a manager in the world who wouldn't like to make the right kind of additions, but he's pleased with what he has got and is not desperate to sign anyone."


I'd like to know (besides Arteta's wages) what else have we spent this AVAILABLE money on???
Larry Boner
62   Posted 26/01/2011 at 22:00:12

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Manchester Utd are in Salford.
Richard Dodd
63   Posted 26/01/2011 at 22:21:09

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I am assured that Everton are well able to service their existing debt but are severely restricted as far as further borrowing is concerned. Thus, with even journeymen earning c£5k A DAY, any loan signing cannot be authorised until the very deadline is reached. The banks, not BB, will have the final say-so.
Ray Robinson
64   Posted 26/01/2011 at 22:41:32

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Larry, like that makes any difference. I think Utd's ground is nearer the centre of Manchester than City's is.
Larry Boner
65   Posted 26/01/2011 at 22:38:25

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As stated on this site many times, we took a £30m loan from Bear Stearns and Prudential in 2002, to be repaid over 25 years, using season ticket revenue, £2.5m/year, £60+ million to be repaid.

I think that there has been a forecast of season ticket sales done, taking into account the severe consequences of the recession, and we won't be able to meet the yearly repayments, based on a reduction in season ticket take-up.

We currently as a business appear to have no assets, apart from the players on the pitch, so we can't take out another loan, so we may be trying to make up the shortfall in the repayments by shipping out players who are earning a hefty wage (combined).

Mr Moyes alluded to this at the start of the window, by saying we couldn't even afford to pay the wage of a loan signing. The Birmingham postponement and the subsequent cash flow rumours may be a precursor to next season, when almost certainly season ticket sales will plummet. That may then trigger the sale of one of our star players, my opinion is it will be Fellaini, to Arsenal or Chelsea.

The cost cutting allows Mr Moyes to keep his best players for now, to try and avoid relegation and sneak a European place at best. Several employees over the past 18 months have had massive pay rises, Mr Moyes included; Arteta, Cahill, Heitinga... initially breaking the wage ceiling when he signed. We can't afford to pay these salaries, we don't have the business acumen to absorb these costs.

Ste Traverse
66   Posted 26/01/2011 at 23:00:50

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Matt, I remember those comments from Kenwright and they were an absolute joke, talk about passing the buck.

Everyone knows we are potless so, IMO, Kenwright was trying to take the heat off himself so fans would blame Moyes instead for our lack of transfer activity.

The man continues to be a disgrace.
Dick Fearon
67   Posted 26/01/2011 at 23:24:07

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Administration, bankruptcy, fire sale of assets/players... Destination Kirkby seems more and more like a lost opportunity.
Steve Smith
68   Posted 26/01/2011 at 23:43:16

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Heard a rumour about this at the match last Saturday, I think it's rubbish myself but I can tell you that an online bookmaker that doesn't operate in this country heard the same rumour last Thursday... I don't know if thats significant or not but it obviously means these rumours are getting a wide audience.
Steve Smith
69   Posted 27/01/2011 at 00:04:51

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Larry (66):
I don't understand your maths there mate: we take in a minimum £7.5M per year on season ticket sales contributing to a total gate income of around £22M per year.
Ste Blundell
70   Posted 27/01/2011 at 00:38:34

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Michael, why are you picking on Nick?

I have to say that when I read a very similar post on NSNO last night I felt like I smelt a rat too. As moderator you obviously get dubious posts that you either publish on face value or delete based on any doubts you may have but surely you have to allow other users to voice similar concerns on such matters. After all isn't this a place for Evertonians' to voice their opinions isn't it?

You big bully.

Derek Thomas
71   Posted 27/01/2011 at 01:50:34

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So this it it then, all we are is Leeds in slow motion?
Danny Hinchcliffe
72   Posted 27/01/2011 at 02:33:34

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Pienaar, Yak & Vaughan all leaving probably equates to about £110k a week less going out of the current account. Ok so Anichebe & Coleman have signed up, say that puts another £10k back on the wagebill, so we're still talking about £100k a week, which is still maybe even a bit conservative for two players who were definitely amongst the biggest earners before they went (and may I add, in my opinion, two of the most consistently disappointing in front of goal of late). If you work that out over 7 months, or on the basis that most of our business is usually done on Deadline Day, 31 August: 8 months... we're talking about £3.5 million+... which as you or I know can buy you a Cahill, a Coleman and still leave you with £2 million.

Administration is crazy talk, I actually wonder whether one of these days we're going to have broken the shackles of our debts accumulated during the nineties and be on one of the the soundest financial footings in the Premier League??

You have to remember Fellaini is being paid off £3m a season so that's transfer budget immediately accounted for... to be honest, based on the fact that at the end he will still be ours, even if he doesn't sign a contract due to his age, and also that he is that rare commodity: a big fekker that can play, I think he's worth that for the role he's played in the last few seasons.

Spurs were the team that in the early nineties were making big news because they had a shocking £16 million of debt hanging over them... they got over that and now they're financially sound; that could be us as well.

If we go down, ever, then it will be the worst thing to ever happen to the club; that will be all our traditions and things to be proud of straight out of the window. There's no way that will ever happen if we keep behind Moyes though. I am one to wonder about him often enough, there are some decisions that you have to look at closer to understand... but he is a young manager, even Alex Ferguson didn't do a lot in his first years at Man U...

Let's face it, we've all given up on this season, why keep the expensively waged flair players if they're going to be sold in the summer anyway? Let's save that money, there's no way we're going to go down, and give our youth a chance instead... that's how Man U did it, with the youth. I wouldn't be surprised at all if all the transfer money we had was spent on 17-year-olds again... and, on the day Luke Garbutt got his call to the next level of the England setup, that sounds like good investment to me.
Garry Martin
73   Posted 27/01/2011 at 09:05:15

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How can a buisness go into administration when they don't spend money?? We haven't spent massive amounts of money & kept a normally rigid wage structure... doesn't add up!!
Tony Waring
74   Posted 27/01/2011 at 09:25:17

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Aidan @ #18 You must be thinking of FC United of Manchester. I believe they play in the Pennine Combination or summat like that!
Marc Williams
75   Posted 27/01/2011 at 09:54:38

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Garry Martin 73# .... If you read thru' the above you'll find your question answered.

It all goes back to the terms of the loans that EFC has already signed up to with major banks against future revenue streams. There is a shortfall in the projections for servicing these debts & costs are being cut (players loaned) & some of our only remaining assets (players)
sold to raise cash.

If EFC cannot convince the bankers that they can meet their existing obligations (which are already crippling us) then they risk the debts being called in & administration would beckon.

Perhaps our chairman has assured them that the money for these debts is "Ring-fenced" or any due payments "will be in the account in the morning" etc ? who knows? We as mere 'cash cow' fans don't need to be told.

If they are as willing as some of the 'apologistas' on this site to take him at his word, then I'm sure we're fine. If they are not, or if at any time our 'cash flow' difficulties impact on the Inland Revenue collection of due tax ... then a Portsmouth style situation will ensue.

Personally, I don't think we are there yet but we are getting there more quickly with each passing day. Unless we are bought (are we even for sale?) then next summer some bigger assets will go (Fellaini, Rodwell & Johnny H at the very least) and I'd be very surprised if by that point Moyes doesn't throw in the towel.

That said, my ma' always used to say ...."It's always darkest before dawn", so this impending mess may force Kenwright's hand & precipitate a change for the better.

Anthony Hughes
76   Posted 27/01/2011 at 11:08:33

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Administration may not be imminent but ? if we continue losing more players than we acquire and bring in lesser quality players than what's gone out ? then on the pitch relegation will become a very real threat. If we we're to go down in the next couple of seasons then our financial problems will place us in grave danger.
James Cadwaladr
77   Posted 27/01/2011 at 11:15:56

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I have spoken to a friend who works for PWC, Everton's auditors; he has done a bit of digging this morning. Administration is wide of the mark but has confirmed that the loans and transfers out have been to provide operating capital as there is not a penny in the club. Also confirmed there will be no incoming players in this transfer window and, if investment isn't secured, there will be more out than in during the summer.
Brian Waring
78   Posted 27/01/2011 at 11:12:03

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Danny, this isn't Moyes's first season ? he's been here 9 years.
Erik Dols
79   Posted 27/01/2011 at 11:33:30

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I have it from good source that Kenwright is hoarding up money to ring-fence it in order to rebuild Goodison.
Phil Martin
80   Posted 27/01/2011 at 11:37:50

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Administration is probably over-dramatic. But it would take a scare of equal magnitude to awake the seemingly majority fanbase from their mediocrity induced coma.

The club has barely spent over the last 8 years, yet our debt levels are dire. Why?
Larry Boner
81   Posted 27/01/2011 at 11:43:32

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Steve # 69 ? and if out of that income we start to see a reduction, then, because we have no other monies available, then the ability to make the yearly repayments to the banks are affected. Everton then need to cost-cut in order to make the projected repayments, hence players out, no players in.

My understanding was that Mr Moyes wanted to keep Pienaar and let his contract run out, why lose your best player for buttons when your are in a precarious position? But it looks like his hand was forced; now, if we don't bring a replacement in, then we know that money issues have taken preference over playing issues.

Not really what you want to hear as a supporter, who provides the club with hard earned cash for a season ticket every year, so this scenario will affect next season's renewals even more, with fans becoming disenchanted, less people who will pay at the gate, people cherry picking games... it's a downward spiral. The Great Crash of 1929 was caused by less!

Daniel Johnson
82   Posted 27/01/2011 at 12:17:27

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The lack of funds does suggest to me a Goodison redevelopment of some sort.

Jesus, I love Goodison but you can't polish a turd.
Steve Smith
83   Posted 27/01/2011 at 13:00:27

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Larry,
I take your point mate but if our loan repayments are £2.5M as you state, then that surely is the least of our problems? I would expect the club would have to budget on a worst case scenario basis, ie: finish bottom of the league and out of the cups in the first round.

Now if you consider each place in the league is worth £775k, anything above finishing in the bottom four would easily cover the £2.5M loan repayment?

Brian Waring
84   Posted 27/01/2011 at 13:40:36

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"Ring-fenced" ? Now where have I heard that before......?
Chris Wright
85   Posted 27/01/2011 at 13:39:50

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Dick (67) ? I wondered when someone would bring up DK. Do you really want to bring up old wounds, and where do you think the money for that would have come from?
Marc Williams
86   Posted 27/01/2011 at 13:02:31

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Daniel Johnson 82# ... Don't take this the wrong way as I'm not having a go at you but please tell me how you come to this conclusion ?

Larry Boner 81# ... I think you have got to the nub of it here Larry, when you refer to the "downward spiral". We are now facing a classic example of what economists call a "spiral of decline". We need to cut costs & raise capital which can only be achieved by loaning & selling players (our only unmortgaged assets as who knows WTF is going on with Bellefield).

However, our income is falling all the time & selling players only exacerbates this as poorer performances means: lower gates, less season ticket renewals, lower PL payments (based on league position), no chance of Euro football, less merchandise sales, etc, etc. This in turn means that, despite the sale of your assets, the shortfall is still not met.... so you have to sell more players just to survive, meet loan obligations & maintain working capital. The downward spiral gets faster and you never bridge the gap, while your saleable assets are finite so the end result is inevitable.

The problem we face is that we will end up so weak that we will be relegated, way before we reach the theoretical point of zero assets. If relegation happens, then there is no way we can meet the terms of our loans & we'll end up Lord knows where!

Despite all this, people still come on here & defend Kenwright. How bad do things have to get before the penny drops & Evertonians do something about it? I'm sick of hearing that protests are what the 'other lot' do & that it's not the Everton Way.... What is the Everton way? Drifting quietly into oblivion for a bungling chairman just because he is supposedly 'one of us'? I've never met or heard on anyone who actually ever saw him in the Boys Pen!

We all need to start working 24/7 to spread the word to fellow fans & the wider media just what a danger this clown is to the future of our once great club ? KENWRIGHT OUT!

Right... rant over, lunchbreak over & back to work, before I'm out on my arse.

Larry Boner
87   Posted 27/01/2011 at 17:41:06

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Marc Williams, explained it more eloquently than I did.
But, we are still in the same position no matter whatever way it is explained.
Joe McMahon
88   Posted 27/01/2011 at 19:27:12

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Daniel Johnson (82) - no but you can throw Glitter on it.

On saying that our wonderfull chairman can't even afford th bloody glitter.

Marc Williams - brilliant article.
Colin Fitzpatrick
89   Posted 27/01/2011 at 22:55:57

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James Cadwaladr [77]: when did PWC take over from Deloitte as Everton?s auditors?

BTW, someone posted earlier that Manchester United play in Salford; they don?t and never have.
Phil Gardner
90   Posted 27/01/2011 at 23:26:26

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Rumour started by a group of Kopshites (on the Wirral) who I know very well!
Danny Hinchcliffe
91   Posted 28/01/2011 at 21:23:33

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Brian [comment 78]

just wondering where you thought we'd be now 9 years ago, whether we'd have any talent let alone English?

I'd have predicted we'd be in alot of debt and around about where we are in the table if we were lucky... I don't reckon we're in too much debt and we're where we are in the table, but expecting to be higher

It annoys me that people on here take everything literally, do you not think if you turn up in Lisbon to sign a player saying "oh look we've got loads of money" it's going to cost us more?

Most things that come out of the club are not words for the fans, they're for the enemy, the other 97% of the football world... of course they're not going to come and say the club are financially ok because that would be back page headlines as its the one bit of info that Everton fans have been waiting to hear for 15 years

I can't believe Kenwright would still be in position if the Manager didn't believe the financial strategy was working in the best interests of the longterm future of the club

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