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If we don't beat Blackpool, Moyes must resign

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If Everton don't beat Blackpool tomorrow, Moyes should be honest with himself, do the decent thing, and resign... and let someone else get us out of this mess.

The lack of finance is no excuse for where we are in the league and Moyes himself stated at the start of the season that we had an excellent squad.

His substitutions the other night were again pointless, stupid and ineffective. He took Coleman off after he had just won a corner and then a few minutes later Jags got the ball on the right side and crossed it out of play. Moyes is a useless tactician and unable to see what needs to be done.

Blackpool were beaten again the other night and should be there for the taking. So no excuses Moyes, either get us the win we desperately need... or go!


Ged Dwyer, Liverpool     Posted 04/02/2011 at 14:36:52

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Simon Jenkins
1   Posted 04/02/2011 at 15:26:57

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If Moyes resigns, that would absolutely guarantee relegation.

You are kidding yourself when you say the lack of finance is 'no excuse for where we are in the league'.

We lost one of our best players and never replaced him.
We weakened the squad further by loaning out two strikers to lessen the wage bill.
Every other team around us or below us have strengthen their squads in the past few weeks.
Some of them, such as Villa with their new £24m striker Bent, have already overtaken us.

If Blackpool beat us, and we as fans want to do something, we'd be better off finally organising some long needed form of protests and/or action against Kenwright & Co, in an effort to finally end the malaise we find ourselves in due to the board and chairman's inaction. Far more could be done to attract investment/buyers into this club, because far lesser clubs are getting money in, and it's not all linked to modern stadia.
Anthony Jaras
2   Posted 04/02/2011 at 15:40:00

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I don't think we would be any better off without Moyes as it's clearly an issue of having no funds rather than the team Moyes has been picking.

If Moyes went, we would go down!
Tony J Williams
3   Posted 04/02/2011 at 15:57:06

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"The lack of finance is no excuse for where we are in the league" - Yes and no, stupid comment in the fact that we haven't bought a player over £1m in the last 3 transfer windows and not so stupid because our "best" player has gone and who we thought was the "best" has been gash.

Moyes said he though he had a great squad, so did a lot of fans, we are playing better football but no fecker is putting the ball in the net. Our top scorer has been missing for a month and come home with an injury. If we had money we wouldn't feel these problems so much.

he took Coleman off becayse he was playing gash and was in Clichy's arse pocket for 99% of his time on the pitch. The lads who went the match confirmed that Pip signalled to come off so can't argue with that one. Feck knows about Vic, he is cack.

"Should be there for the taking" - fecking stupid comment, they are above us in the league and we have been playing cack, so why are they there for the taking?

He will never resign, he is on too much money.
John Daley
4   Posted 04/02/2011 at 15:48:31

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Well, I think I read somewhere that Blackpool have lost 8 of their last 9 games, so they seem to be on a downwards spiral. However, bad runs like that have to come to an end some time and more often than not they seem to come to a bloody end against Everton!

One thing you can guarantee with Blackpool is a certain naïvety. They'll come to attack from the off and not simply sit back and try to keep things tight. That should suit us seen as though we've real struggled to break teams down at home this season when we've been expected to make the running. Then again, I say that more in hope than belief as I can't actually remember the last time we scored a goal from a quick breakaway/ counterattack either!
Ged Dwyer
5   Posted 04/02/2011 at 15:59:10

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Simon Jenkins

You are kidding yourself to say lack of finance is an excuse. We were in this mess before the January window, before we sold Pienaar (Pienaar should have been tied up with a new contract 2 years ago but dithering Dave was still deciding if he was any good or not!).

'Organise protests against Kenwright' should be done but that isn't going to help our league position. Our league position is Moyes's fault and it was he who said we had a great squad at the start of this season. Wake up Simon and don't believe everything you read in the press!

Paul Bristow
6   Posted 04/02/2011 at 16:08:38

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Ged Dwyer
7   Posted 04/02/2011 at 16:07:46

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Tony Williams

"should be there for the taking" - fecking stupid comment,

I take it from your comment that you think we can't beat Blackpool. So who can we beat? Let's just come out with nonsense until we get relegated. Well done mate. Well done.
Tony J Williams
8   Posted 04/02/2011 at 16:13:56

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How is Moyes going to argue terms of a contract Ged, I thought our solicitors did that....when they can find their pens.

John, it's all so predictable isn't it? I call us the charity side of the Premier League. Whenever a team is going through a bad spell, you can rely on us to give them the points.
Ged Dwyer
9   Posted 04/02/2011 at 16:15:30

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Paul Bristow

I'm just an Evertonian who cares deeply about the club and wants something done now until it's too late. You might want to bury your head in the sand but I don't.
Robert Moore
10   Posted 04/02/2011 at 16:18:46

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It's not Moyes's fault, it's Kenwright who should go if we lose to Blackpool, but it's not going to happen!!
Simon Jenkins
11   Posted 04/02/2011 at 16:17:39

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Ged #5 You wrote:

'You are kidding yourself to say lack of finance is an excuse. We were in this mess before the January window, before we sold Pienaar'

Yes, and why were we in this mess?

Because we haven't signed any new players for actual money without selling players for years.

I can assure you I am wide awake ? what do you think Moyes was supposed to say last summer? If he'd told the truth he'd have been accused of lack of ambition, of having a dour manner, of not having optimism.

Stop pinning everything on Moyes ? to the point of asking a man who has worked miracles over the past 9 years to resign! ? and keep sight of the true overriding reason why we are in the shit.
Dave Charles
12   Posted 04/02/2011 at 16:18:39

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Hang on a minute, Ged, let Gary Megson take over at Sheff Weds first. Can't disagree with your points about the other night but sacking Moyes or Moyes quitting won't help now. We're stuck at the moment.
John Ford
13   Posted 04/02/2011 at 16:23:43

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Quote 'The lack of finance is no excuse for our league position'

Hmmm... so by that logic the huge finances of teams at the top of the league has nothing to do with their position either?

I think you'll find it has.
Ged Dwyer
14   Posted 04/02/2011 at 16:30:11

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John Ford

No one was saying that at the start of the season, everyone was saying they were happy with the squad, especially the manager. Finance has been brought up again because of were we are and Moyes has to take a large share of the blame.
Brian Baker
15   Posted 04/02/2011 at 16:38:57

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No he doesn't.
Aidy Dews
16   Posted 04/02/2011 at 16:38:20

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The thing that would worry me if he did call it a day anytime soon cos he thought he'd taken us as far as he could, then who's to say the players won't have the same idea that Everton cannot go any further and lack ambition? ? which, let's be honest, with the current board and chairman, we do ? wont want to leave to further their careers?

I'm quite worried about Everton's future from the summer beyond; I can't see us having the money to invest in the team like we desperately need and I get the feeling that one or two of our better players might've had enough and want to go elsewhere where they could have a chance of winning things and playing in the Champions League.

I hope we can keep the core of our side and get rid of certain players and tweak the team a bit for the better and then maybe we could kick on and have a better season of it next time round.
Ron Haslam
17   Posted 04/02/2011 at 16:43:05

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Ged... The 'shite' over the road spend over £50 million on two strikers ... we spend £500,000 on a Greek kid. Spot the difference!
Tony J Williams
18   Posted 04/02/2011 at 16:46:22

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Ged, I fully believe we can beat Blackpool, as long as the "Good" Everton turn up and not the "Evil" wastrel Everton that a lot of the times shows its face.

However to simply say we should beat them....why? Where is the evidence that a team below another one should beat them? Surely due to league standings and our last game also being a loss that we are there for the taking then?
Ged Dwyer
19   Posted 04/02/2011 at 16:50:23

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Ron Haslam

The shite got themselves out of trouble by changing manager before they spent the £50 million or more. Spot the difference!
Ron Haslam
20   Posted 04/02/2011 at 16:56:03

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Ged, ok so we get rid of the manager... where's the £50 coming from?
Ged Dwyer
21   Posted 04/02/2011 at 16:58:05

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Ron

The finance problem is there, granted, and that's an excuse for not getting into the top 6 but not for being 3 points off the drop zone. Don't mix the two together.
Ron Haslam
22   Posted 04/02/2011 at 17:04:26

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Ged, Don't you think that the players have to shoulder a lot of the blame for the situation we are in. If Saha had opened this season scoring as he did last season we would be a lot closer to the top 6. Earlier in the season we dominated games but didn't have anybody to put the ball in the back of the net!
James Martin
23   Posted 04/02/2011 at 17:01:45

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Ever thought we're just having a bad season? All that promise from the end of last season when we wiped the floor with the big teams (which in fairness we haven't been so bad against this season) and we won't even stay patient for a season. We outplayed Tottenham and Chelsea and should have done the league double over Liverpool as well as beating City away.

Yes we've been disappointing against other teams, especially at home, but does that mean Moyes should resign and who else would we get? There's a bracket of top managers that is very small and in reality we couldn't afford any of them nor would they want to come. We're probably the only people in world football who don't think Moyes belongs in that bracket.

If Moyes goes, the few good players that are left will follow him out the door. He's normally responded well to adversity in the past, here's to a cup run and a flying start to next season.

All this moaning about finances, we've never had any money in our recent past but that doesn't mean we haven't had a fine Premier League team for the past 8 years.

To be honest would anyone be really happy if a sheikh came along and bought everything so that we were derided in the same way as Man City but 'won' everything and felt good in our propaganda war against the RS?? I'd rather build our way there, start again if we had to, buying it would feel cheap.

Tony J Williams
24   Posted 04/02/2011 at 17:13:11

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Ron, I have been saying that for ages now. Why do the players not get some of the blame? Coleman against Chelski side footed over from five yards.

Rodwell, with his ten bob head, couldn't clear a ball and put a great chance wide from... you gussed it, five yards.

If the players actually did their job properly we wouldn't be discussing the dreaded "R" word on here.
Ged Dwyer
25   Posted 04/02/2011 at 17:14:23

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Ron Haslam

Agreed - but Moyes was happy with his strikers at the start of the season and was happy to play one up front against the lesser teams at Goodison who we failed to beat. His team selections and substitutions have held us back and not helped us. He must take the blame as any manager should.
Steve Guy
26   Posted 04/02/2011 at 17:22:01

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Moyes doesn't have to resign and to sack him now would be suicidal. We sound small-time enough when there are calls for the manager to go after a defeat, now you are calling for him to go before a ball has been kicked in a game!

I was at the Arsenal game the other night. We played good football; indeed, for the first 15 minutes, Arsenal hardly got a kick and then started play acting and winding the ref up as they got frustrated. Fabregas should have gone for what he did on the pitch never mind the tunnel.

We didn't lose that game because of the substitions, we lost it through poor defending. Then, when we had to chase the game, we had the likes of VA and LO to come on, whilst they had a game changer, Arshavin. In other words, they can afford the type of player who can make an impact and we can't.

That's not Moyes fault, that's BS Billy's. He's the one who should be going, not Moyes. But cheer up, Ged: I'm pretty convinced you'll get your wish in the Summer. BS Billy can then try to gamble on another unproven manager from the lower divisions or a tinpot from abroad and I don't see that strategy working twice.

John Ford
27   Posted 04/02/2011 at 17:34:40

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Ged... how can Moyes be held responsible for Arteta forgetting how to play and for Yak/Saha having no form whatsoever? No-one, Moyes included, could have predicted that at the start of the season, and that's the main reason for the poor start, and why our hopes have dissolved.

So our best midfielder is struggling badly and we have no strike power to speak of. The difference is that other clubs will go and spend in these situations, we just cant. Moyes has to make do.

Funds are absolutely the key ingredient,
Leon Perrin
28   Posted 04/02/2011 at 17:37:27

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Moyes has been found out by every man and his dog, the recent Ancellotti comments show the disdain his football commands.
He'll probably last till the summer when an "amicable settlement" will be reached, what a dire few months await.
Mike Gwyer
29   Posted 04/02/2011 at 17:51:35

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Steve #27.

Spot on. Arsenal should sign up Stevie G because he would fit nicely into their over dramatic playacting shite. Totally agree with the fact that we have nobody who can change the game, not a sausage. The players that kick off are the best we have - so, if we are losing then we are fucked.

Ged #5. Please. "Dithering Dave"!! - Pienaar wanted out and there was jack shit that Moyes could do about that. I think it's obvious that Pienaar is a money man ? we support EFC; football is his living.

Going to places like the Emirates, which has a worse atmosphere than GP (now that is bad), allows the away support to sing and Moyes's name was chanted with gusto and passion.

The Jag's substition was fairly predictable ? Neville was fucked and was continually getting hammered by Arshavin. Moyes obvioiusly wanted to stop this.
Tony Cheek
30   Posted 04/02/2011 at 18:00:38

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Two reasons why Moyes WILL NOT resign:

1) He knows that he is partly to blame for getting is into this mess, and feels its his job to get us out of it. That's the stuff he is made of.

2) He gets paid too much to jack it in. Would YOU leave a job paying £60+ grand a week?

Two reasons why he WILL NOT be sacked:

1) EFC have no money to pay Moyes out of his contract.

2) No one else wants the job.

Ged Dwyer
31   Posted 04/02/2011 at 18:13:50

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John Ford

Do you think playing Beckford from the off instead of gradually bringing him in, playing the Yak when he wasn't match fit and then dropping him after he scored and started to play well might also have something to do with it.

Arteta was fine up to the aaway game v Blackpool, we had our best spell of form v Liverpool H, Spurs A, Stoke H and Blackpool A but Moyes started changing the team around when he didn't need to. Can you remember this?

Kunal Desai
32   Posted 04/02/2011 at 18:25:07

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I've lost count how many times on here people have said if Moyes does not win this game then he must resign.

I remember it being said before the Wigan game, West Ham home and away, Spurs, Stoke away. Just to name but a few.

He ain't going anywhere for now, he'll probably want to carry us through to safety until the end of the season and then he'll perhaps go.

Phil Rodgers
33   Posted 04/02/2011 at 18:18:28

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Whether we had funds or not, we should be higher in the league than we are. We have a team of players much better than some of the shite above us. If there was no transfer window, Moyes would be getting even more stick. At the beginning of the season, no-one would have thought we would have had the season we have had so far.
Simon Templeman
34   Posted 04/02/2011 at 18:24:16

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Leon Perrin, would you care to elaborate on your post ref. Ancelloti and his remarks, I have not heard what he said. Bear in mind the man is under considerable pressure to catch the Mancs.
Dick Anderson
35   Posted 04/02/2011 at 18:36:51

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I honestly believe Moyes will resign if Everton lose to Blackpool.

I fear we may draw in which case I expect Moyes to stay.

I hope he does stay. I'd love to see new owners at Everton and Moyes given some money to work with.
Leon Perrin
36   Posted 04/02/2011 at 18:40:37

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Simon ? After the cup game, in his TV interview, Ancellotti alluded to us being long-ball merchants.
Karl Masters
37   Posted 04/02/2011 at 18:45:58

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Every time I read this sort of thread it seems that all the people who want Moyes out can't really name a successor who would do any better.

I remember after we lost to Blackburn 4-1 in the FA Cup in 2007 that a debate raged on here for weeks and we were told by some wise old heads that we should get in Steve Coppell (even though he was a boyhood red) or Alan Curbishley or even Mark Hughes!

Subsequently, we had a 6th place finish followed by two 5th place finishes while Coppell got relegated at Reading and quit due to being bored, Curbishley went to West Ham, spunked about £50m with the Icelanders and West Ham went backwards and into deep debt, whilst Hughes went to Man City, spent £200m, drew 7 games in a row, was a complete cock during the Lescott affair and was sacked.

That's when we do get some suggestions.

Kenwright and the Board are the problem.
Jon Cox
38   Posted 04/02/2011 at 18:43:31

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Now then, the stakes have changed. Wenger has called Moyes a liar. Moyes has hit back. It's a debate right now on talksport.

Love DM or not, we will beat Blackpool because of this. Moyes has needed something to ignite our players. He's now got it. The media seem to be on Moyes's side.

What I would say to Wenger is see you next Tuesday.
Will Firstbrook
39   Posted 04/02/2011 at 18:40:46

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@Kunal Desai - spot on take, there.

Say what you will about Moyes, he's not going to run off in the middle of the night. I'm quite convinced he is committed to the players and they, in turn, appear committed to him. If anyone is getting us out of this season's mess, it's the current cast. End of.

However, based on the recent comments attributed to Moyes, it appears he (and I imagine our core players) will be looking for some 'meaningful' financial commitment from the Chairman and Board during the off-season. Of course, we have all heard such promises from this lot in the past (as has Moyes, I'm sure).

Assuming we do avoid relegation this season (first challenge) I'm fully anticipating a long and painful nail-biting summer whereby drastic changes to the squad (and management) could very well be in the offing. Whether such changes will be positive or negative will be driven largely by what (if anything) the Board is willing to do. If history is any indication, I am quite fearful of what may lie ahead for this wonderful club of ours.

John Owens
40   Posted 04/02/2011 at 19:07:45

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There are two problems here: Firstly, we have no money and we aren't going to get any in the near future. Secondly, we can't hit a barn door and when we do, we give goals away daft goals. Moyes can't decide what to do, there are too many team changes and too many players not playing well. Moyes and the players have to take some responsibility for that.

The comment about Liverpool spending £50m was daft ? their net spend was zero, they merely spent the Torres abd Babbel money ? they have no more money than us. We desperately need a striker to take some chances and get 8-10 goals in the next 6/7 games. Who that is.... I haven't got a clue.

Oliver Molloy
41   Posted 04/02/2011 at 19:06:23

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No matter what happens tomorrow,it would only be worse if Moyes resigned at this stage of the season. There is no-one out there that would do a better job, and who would want to manage Everton right now??

37 Karl Masters is 100% correct: it's Kenwright & Co who are the problem.

I do believe with all the comments Moyes has been coming out with the last few days regards investment and contracts for players etc etc, he has perhaps already made his mind up that this season will be his last.

By the way, I now think Wenger and Fabregas are complete arseholes and when the latter leaves at the end of the season, Wenger will be saying he was hounded out ? just watch and see.

Come on Everton ? big 3 pts required...

Mark Wayman
42   Posted 04/02/2011 at 19:07:47

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We didn't play long balls against Chelsea, we outplayed them most of the game. Other managers often accuse us of doing this when they are expected to beat us and don't. Ancelotti does not hold a victory over Everton as Chelsea manager, in fact for the most part his teams have been embarassingly bad against us.

Moyes does have to take some of the blame for our current position. Home games against West Brom, Newcastle, Wigan for example he has waited far to long to change things up, and his substitutions are often very late and don't make sense. I don't think he will be sacked nor do I think he will resign. I also don't want him to be.

What worries me about the Blackpool game is they play a lot of good crosses around the six-yard box and we don't defend them very well. They also play an open game but I don't know if we have enough pace to hurt them on the break. That being said, I will be vocal tomorrow in support of our team.
Glen Anderson
43   Posted 04/02/2011 at 19:17:10

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Karl Masters (#37) - Absolutely spot on. I say the same thing every time people say Moyes should leave. I just don't see any other realistic managerial targets doing a better job, despite DM's tactical naivety and poor subs.
Howard Don
44   Posted 04/02/2011 at 19:22:51

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So which particular footballing genius is, even now, sitting on his backside just itching for a chance to come and dig a potless outfit like us out of the mire. Big Sam perhaps? Well he'd probably come, and can wheel and deal but get ready for hoofball. Martin O'Neill? in your dreams.

Sorry, Ged... Moyes leaving now would be a disaster.
Dave Wilson
45   Posted 04/02/2011 at 19:13:46

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Recent Ancelotti comments:

"Despite having a squad that cost Ziillions, this Ginger twat keeps embarrassing me, his team always plays us off the park, but I`ll spend another £70 million in the window and have another go. I asked My mate Mancini, he`s spent even more than me, but he doesn't have a scooby either. Maybe if I get my lads to boot it up to Drogba even more than they do now???

If neither of us beat the Ginger twat soon, we are gonna join forces... City will attack down the left and Chelsea down the right
Glen Anderson
46   Posted 04/02/2011 at 19:36:32

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Dave Wilson (#45) - Genius!
Jon Cox
47   Posted 04/02/2011 at 19:36:56

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Dave @ 40 something, cracker!!
Andy Crooks
48   Posted 04/02/2011 at 19:32:57

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There is too much fear among Evertonians. Howard and Simon, do you really believe that there is no life after Moyes?

Too many cling to the view that for £3.5 Million a year this man is doing us a favour. Nine years, no trophies, hoofball, dour negative shite, draws against second rate sides...

I challenge anyone to come on this site and say that David Moyes is the best our money can by, that he has earned his cash and that he is a top rate coach.

Andy Crooks
49   Posted 04/02/2011 at 19:41:15

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Sorry, Dave Wilson, you aren't included in this challenge!
Jon Cox
50   Posted 04/02/2011 at 19:39:16

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I'm listening to squawkshite. I know, I know, but the neutral fans are with Moyes. Especially Spurs. Wonder why.

The main tennet of the media is why hasn't Fabregas been hauled in front of the FA to answer charges. I would say why hasn't Lee Mason (ref) been hauled before the beak to say if Moyes is a liar or not.

If it's true then we get the 3 points. If Moyes is a liar then he does 10,000 hours com service flipping burgers at Macs. But knowing Moyes' tactical nous he'd report to Starbucks.
Michael Madden
51   Posted 04/02/2011 at 19:51:45

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Ged, name one Manager who would replace David Moyes. He would have no money & probably have to sell his best players in the summer.

Possibly Roy Hodgson... NO THANK YOU

Dave Wilson
52   Posted 04/02/2011 at 19:50:16

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Andy, fair enough, but if you want to know why Kenwright holds him so dear, forget everything else, look at his league placings.

I think you get about half a million quid per place (may have that figure wrong, correct me if I have).

Moyes has consistently finnshed best of the rest... pays for himself really.
Michael Kenrick
53   Posted 04/02/2011 at 19:58:15

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Okay, Dave, let's expand on this idea a little...

Somebody posted we were 10th by fanbase, 11th by crowd, 12th by income... whatever. Let's say for the sake of argument our rightful place is 12th, and agree that each place above that is worth an extra £½M... Okay?

So, on this admittedly simplistic basis, Moyes "pays for himself" if we finish (3.5/½ = ) 7 places higher... i.e. 5th... Yes?

I would agree: Moyes was performing in a manner commensurate with his remuneration when we were finishing 5th. Not to say he couldn't have done better... but that would be the definition of "over-achievement". 6th... not so much.

So... last season... best of the rest at 8th??? I think not. We were at least 3 places off the pace.

And currently? 15th. Three places off the expected place of 12th based on Moyes doing absolutely nothing! And a whopping TEN places off where we should be if he was performing.

So what does that say about the "Ginger twat" this season? That he is seriously underperforming.
Jon Cox
54   Posted 04/02/2011 at 20:04:01

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Michael (51) Bilic. Why because he strikes me as a nasty bastard who will take no prisoners. Prisoners either against the opposition or if anyone has a loss of form. This man is the Artic. This is the sort of man we need. The Eastern Euro football has always been one of precision accuracy and complete wipe out of the opposition.

I say give him a chance. Every club goes for the Latino type manager and theyr'e all so predictable. What we want is something different. I may get slagged off but so be it. Bilic is my man. And dont forget he owes us....
Jon Cox
55   Posted 04/02/2011 at 20:13:03

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Sorry, Arctic. You know pretty feckin cold. Wouldn't it be nice to, as an Eastern European, grab Modric from 'appy 'arry. That would make my year.
Peter Fearon
56   Posted 04/02/2011 at 20:16:54

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Obviously our lack of finances plays a big part in the lack of progress in recent years. Transfer prices have gone through the roof as the wealthier teams pay inflated valuations for players. However, money is not the only problem. Moyes and his many misjudgements have also played a role.

The idea that we are somehow doomed to relegation if "Our saviour" Moyes goes is ludicrous. That's exactly the argument that used to be used to save the job of Walter Smith. Frankly if we had big money to spend, I wouldn't give it to Moyes at this point. We don't need to break yet another club record on yet another striker who can't put the ball in the net.

Andrew Gilbert
57   Posted 04/02/2011 at 20:18:08

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The Mirror I think added up all the points taken since Moyes took charge. Everton where 5th.

Without cash he can do no better except in exceptional circumstances.

This season has been bad but as has been said we have been playing well but can't score, not so far off when we won most games 1-0 and finished 4th.

The only answer for clubs like Everton is cash or the death of Sky's millions. I would prefer the latter.
Brian Waring
58   Posted 04/02/2011 at 20:33:09

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Ged (#14), spot on mate. It's funny how money is always used in defence of Moyes when things are going shite, but at the start of the season, everyone was saying how this squad was one of the best in the Prem, some said it was only second to Chelsea's. There was talk of a deffo top 4 finish, some even said we had an outside chance of the title.

Moyes said himself it was his best squad ever, and capable of challenging the top 4.

I've said it before: Moyes does well, he is hailed as a messiah because he has done it without money, we're shite, it's because Moyes doesn't have any money.

Steve Kidd
59   Posted 04/02/2011 at 20:39:25

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Here is my opinion, for what it is worth. David Moyes is far from a poor manager; however, he does have his flaws. His late substitutions and constant changes do annoy me; however I grew up with the nineties rubbish and had a season ticket under Smith and realise what a job he has done to take a team full of poor, over-the-hill players and sign a great crop of players who on their day play great attractive football.

I think the fundamental problem that Moyes has is that there are now teams that can afford to constantly throw money at a problem until they stumble over a solution. Often one of the solutions they try seems to be one of our better players! I honestly believe 20 years ago Moyes could have won the league due to his astute signings from the lower leagues on a limited budget; however, the only teams who win anything nowadays are the ones who are financed by oligarchs and sheikhs.

John Shaw
60   Posted 04/02/2011 at 20:38:41

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The way I see it is that we have a pretty good first eleven; however, that means all the players have to be close to top form. This season, we have had more than the odd player off-form; the problem is when you look at our bench, it doesn't fill you with any optimism, even before Yak, Pienaar and Vaughan went on loan.

This is a direct result of a lack of any real investment in the playing squad, in my opinion. Our players came into the season knowing that, even if they had a poor run of form, there was very little the manager could do, because the quality outside of the first eleven isn't really there. So there is no pressure on the players to perform to the max... after all, who's going to replace them? Anichebe? Ossie? Baxter? Gueye? ? Do me a favour!
Steve Kidd
61   Posted 04/02/2011 at 20:47:04

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Apologies for the lack of capitals above on Moyes and Smith. I'm still gettin used to this phone! Also I wanted to say his constant reliance on his favourites ( Ossie!)
John Shaw
62   Posted 04/02/2011 at 20:50:24

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Dave (20) - too right Bilic owes us, unfortunately I'm not sure how many weeks wages he took while injured only to then retire and sign for somebody else, cheeky bastard!

I wouldn't want him anywhere near our club.
Dave Wilson
63   Posted 04/02/2011 at 20:57:07

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Michael

Yes he is indeed under performing... BUT:?

If we are going to use his placings as a measure for justifying his wage and indeed if we are going to use 12th place as the yard stick, then Kenwright is quids in.

For the first couple of years of his contract, he paid for himself, he cost a mere £1.5 million last season and if he recovers this season and claws his way to a probable eighth he will have cost another £1.5M.

Throw in the proceeds of a couple of European campaigns, a cup final, and millions of pounds profit made on transfer dealings (since he DM signed his contract) and it's not at all difficult to see why a non-contributing Kenwright would love him.

We could easily get a manager for half Moyes wages, but if he doesn't finish top half every season, does he not then become more expensive?
Michael Kenrick
64   Posted 04/02/2011 at 21:35:11

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There's no doubt that Kenwright loves him... in fact some tolerance will be allowed, since I doubt that Kenwright is holding him to this implied financial return. I'm sure, as long as Moyes finishes 17th or higher, this could go on for years and years and years... unless (or until) there is a serious bust in the finances.


(More of which later... Dave O'Keefe has sent me some interesting stuff ahead of next week's long awaited Annual Report. Only I've lost them somewhere in my lousy Dropbox.)

Jon Cox
65   Posted 04/02/2011 at 21:50:01

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John Shaw, round pegs in square holes... you're havin a laff!! So Rodwell against Villa, Roddy's a right winger. And your argument is......
Andrew James
66   Posted 04/02/2011 at 21:27:50

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This post is a joke right? We finish 5th 2 seasons ago despite massive injury problems and beat all the big boys to get to an FA Cup Final. We finish 8th last season after Lescott-gate, injuries still hurting us and having a blistering second half.

Now Davey has his worst season since 05-06 having not had funds to spend without selling for about 6 transfer windows and you want him to resign? Brilliant.

The guy has his faults as all managers do but he loves Everton, stands up for us and is loyal. He will get us out of this rut. His biggest flaw recently has been he's tried to go for teams to get 3 points and we've ended up drawing. I am surprised he's persisted with this but long for a few 1-0s just to get us back up the table!
Andy Crooks
67   Posted 04/02/2011 at 23:27:59

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Andrew, in what games has David Moyes gone for three points and have we ended up drawing?
Sean Patton
68   Posted 04/02/2011 at 23:35:48

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Resign? There is a case for sacking him the way this season has gone!

We used to get a good season followed by a bad season with Moyes now it is a bad half then a good half.

Whenever Everton reach realitive highs you can be sure that with Moyes there is a huge low around the corner.

The team has gone from 2 defeats in 24 to now 5 wins in the next 24. FIVE wins all season and we are in February ? that is not even a win per month. It is even worse as 3 of those wins came in a 4-game period, so it is 2 wins in 20 matches which is just pathetic.

A loss to Blackpool on Saturday will mean that Everton have been beaten at home by every promoted club this season.

The only way he should remain at the club is if he wins the FA Cup, I think he should be sacked in the summer and replaced with Steve McLaren.
Tom Bowers
69   Posted 04/02/2011 at 23:50:17

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Do any fans remember back in 1966 when in January we lost at Blackpool after Harry Catterick dropped some high paid ''stars''. He was attacked after the game outside the Bloomfield Road by some idiot fans. Everton went on to win the Cup after that.

Wouldn't be a bad thing for some high priced stars to be dropped after tomorrow if we lose to Blackpool again. Hopefully not but it certainly can be a turning point if things don't go well with the team and the manager.

John Shaw
70   Posted 05/02/2011 at 00:06:03

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Jon Cox - I've never said that Moyes hasn't got things to answer for this season, I've actually been quite critical of him and I was as baffled by the playing of Rodwell at RM against Villa as you obviously were, likewise Heitinga CM, so I'm not really sure what you're getting at, sorry.
John Shaw
71   Posted 05/02/2011 at 00:16:55

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Sean Patton - that's a wind up right? Replace Moyes with McLaren, now things are getting ridiculous!!!
Jim Hillier
72   Posted 05/02/2011 at 00:27:25

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The voice of Reason:

1. Moyes lack tactical sense, does not know our best starting line up, and does not know how to change things if they are not working out.

These are not only facts, they are long-standing facts.

Better than Smith? Yes. But then pubic lice are better than testicular cancer, so that does not get us very far.

2. We are skint. Can't offer the wages to keep the likes of Pienaar (who played like a superstar the first half of this season IMHO). Can't afford to bring in replacements of equal or better quality.

Doesn't much matter whether this is Kenwright's fault or not ? either way, we are up the creek without a paddle. Unless someone buys him out, we will be skint for the foreseeable future.

3. There are better managers out there, O'Neill for one, but no-one who can turn a pig's ear into a silk purse without the financial input.

Everton revival? Yes please, but without money we are whistling in the dark.

4. Players under performing? Fucking right. They do not believe in us. The fans, we don't believe in us. Moyes does not believe in us. Kenwright? Don't get me started.

And?

And nothing. We won't go down. Not because we are too good, but because there are too many teams who are even worse. Kenwright won't solve the financial situation, Moyes won't suddenly solve the tactical situation.

And?

And nothing. We'll scrape through the season, stay up, lose a couple of players, and sink further into the mediocrity that is the bottom half of the Premier League.

Happy ending in sight? Sorry, but no.
John Shaw
73   Posted 05/02/2011 at 01:18:31

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Jim Hillier - Bloody hell, and I thought we'd all been doom and gloom on here for weeks, then I read your post!! Right where's the rope?..........
John Daley
74   Posted 05/02/2011 at 01:23:13

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Sean, I was with you there right up until the words "Steve McLaren".
David Hallwood
75   Posted 05/02/2011 at 01:57:13

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Jim Hillier (#72) ? Only players who are game-changers can be called superstars ? Pienaar didn't score enough goals, or control the game a la Fabregas, therefore good player, wish he was still here, but let's face it he wouldn't get in the EPL 1st 11; he wouldn't even get on the bench.

Brian Waring (#58) ? I was one of the people who thought that we were dark horses for the league, but I knew we needed to sign a striker and a right mid, and when we didn't we were trusting to luck, which of course we didn't get. Even allowing for his faults, it is scarcely Moyes?s fault that two of his big players, Saha & Arteta would suffer such a massive loss of form, and with a pitifully thin squad, that he was unable to call on players to replace them.
Dick Fearon
76   Posted 05/02/2011 at 04:12:54

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Tom B # 69, let's get this sorted once and for all. Catterick was NOT attacked by fans at Blackpool. He stumbled on a wet and windy pavement as he hurried to the team bus. I know that for an absolute fact because I was there among those who were giving him gyp. Gorrit!

We can judge Moyes on the team he puts out against Blackpool. If he plays a typical Moyes negative style of 4-5-1 I say we should get him the fuck out of our club before he does any more damage.

Garry Martin
77   Posted 05/02/2011 at 07:51:33

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For what it's worth, I personally believe the main problem is money. This is basically due to a group of board members who will not support the club as they should do. They simply see the membership to the board as a status symbol & not one were they should "put their hand in their pockets". Yes, Kenwright should burden some of the blame, but, he's never made any bones of the fact that he hasn't got the real money we need. I'm afraid the real blame should be aimed at these quiet suits in the background.
Trevor Lynes
78   Posted 05/02/2011 at 09:13:35

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Every season we waste a lot of money pre-season by going to the USA or OZ etc and we ALWAYS return and perform poorly at the start. Basically we tend to recover and climb into decent positions in the league by season end. However, this season we have not recovered and that is the difference.

STOP the long distance jaunts and concentrate the pre-season in Europe against proper opposition which would be cheaper and more beneficial. I for one never believed we had a particularly strong squad at the start of the season and expressed concern at the lack of adequate cover for Baines. Now we have lost 50% of our best attacking option in Pienaar again without adequate cover. The fact is we have a threadbare squad with NO YOUNGSTERS COMING THROUGH.

Rodwell has not improved whilst some players have gone backwards eg; Yak and Arteta.... DM is working with very little support with what he has!! We have no alternatives if players lose form, get injured or become jaded. I'm afraid that all we have is effort and hope... if we stumble through this season and avoid relegation ? what about next season and beyond???

Robbie Shields
79   Posted 05/02/2011 at 09:41:07

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Fuck the result, if Moyes picks a 4-5-1 formation at home to the mighty Blackpool (no offense to Blackpool by the way, from what I saw against Liverpool they were excellent, great shape, movement, passing, positive and attacking, oh I almost forgot, they did the double over Liverpool, surely they must have spent hundreds of millions to do that eh????? After all, it's all about money don't ya know) then Moyes should go before kick off!!!!!!!!!!
Anthony Millington
80   Posted 05/02/2011 at 10:51:43

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I can't believe some people still think Moyes is a messiah and nothing is his fault. Let me ask you this, how much have Blackpool had to spend? Yes, nothing pretty much! And yes, they are above us! Who's fault is this? Kenwright?

Is it Kenwright's fault too that Moyes has wasted 10 million pounds on Bily, who can hardly get in the team? He could have signed a pacy alternative and we might look dangerous going forward. Moyes is the one who has built one of the slowest teams possible, one of our major weaknesses.
Simon Jenkins
81   Posted 05/02/2011 at 19:44:12

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Anthony #80 - Changed your mind after today, given that Blackpool are no longer above us, that Bily had his best game in a blue shirt, and that the crowd to a man sang Moyes name at the end of the match?
Anthony Millington
82   Posted 05/02/2011 at 21:37:27

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I'm made up we won but take your tinted glasses off mate. We won at home to Blackpool and almost got beat. They are an awful team on an awful run, and we've still got a long way to go to steer clear of danger. Bily's had one good game against a shite team so that obviously justifies 10 million pounds then does it?

As for Moyes, his record this season is pretty appalling: 6 league wins in 25 and knocked out in the cup again by a lower league side. So no, I haven't changed my mind after one home win against Blackpool!
Tom Bowers
83   Posted 05/02/2011 at 23:44:14

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Today's game was a big improvement for the Blues. Okay we blew the lead twice thanks to individual errors on a rain sodden pithc but remember Liverpool could get a point against them. There are no pushovers in the Prem this season as Manure found out today at Wolves. We have had many draws against teams who in previous seasons would have beaten.

Today's stars were undoubtedly Saha and Fellaini but a few others weren't far behind. Good to see Cahill fit enough for the bench and also Jags coming back. We need Jags at the back. Heitinga is able but not as good as Jags.

What is needed now is a run of games with victories to push us up the table. It started this time last year so maybe it's deja vu.

David Booth
84   Posted 06/02/2011 at 13:40:11

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Yeah, it was 'only' Blackpool... we 'only' scored five... we 'only' came back after the deflating setback of going 3-2 down... Saha 'only' scored four... and 'only' the whole crowd chanted David Moyes' name at the end of the game.

Interesting that it's 'only' on here that between 10-12 regular moaners just keep repeating the same negative nonsense.

Hilariously, the irony is he's going nowhere, so much as it's tempting to spring to his defence, it's sometimes more amusing to watch you salivate with such wonderfully-unfulfilled frustration.

Still, Di Matteo's free now... let's get him in quick eh?

Tom Bowers
85   Posted 06/02/2011 at 15:15:45

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Sad thing is the manager still gets the sack when enough is enough and sometimes when things aren't too bad. Just ask Newcastle and Blackburn fans.

Moyes has done well,no argument there but after 9 years should we not expect more than what this season has produced? They could keep him another 9 years and achieve nothing but you just know that he will skip to a money club as soon as the offer comes along unless we obtain a big investor.

Before this season, Moyes seemed to be making a silk purse out of a sow's ear but it's all fallen flat this season so far. Let's not get carried away by yesterday's rather peculiar win. We will need a few more in the coming weeks to turn things around and hope before next season that investor comes in.

Roberto Birquet
86   Posted 06/02/2011 at 15:39:43

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We won, so you think he should stay. Is that right, Ged?
Mark Duffy
87   Posted 06/02/2011 at 17:49:11

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As a brand new subscriber to ToffeeWeb I've spent a good few hours reading all the comments and it's quite clear Evertonians split into two camps? those with the glass half-empty and those with it half-full.

Firstly the reality check is that being £30M in the red is because Everton turnover only £75M a year (whereas Man U turnover £1BN)... so, if we want to compete money-wise, Kenwright needs to find a buyer with very deep pockets. So which Arab prince, Russian oligarch, or Yank billionaire do we want and will they know where Everton even is? Accept the situation Everton can't sell because there are no buyers willing to piss £50M a year in the wind.

Secondly, Moyes is the most successful British manager based on results against each pound spent, so trust to his skills.

Thirdly, unless you feel a top 4 finish is our right, recognise we are only 7 points off 6th place with a game in hand ? providing the Shite don't win at the Bridge. And we all know where those points went ? in games where we dominated.

So I am proud that we are the most financially honest and British club out there and rather than blaming Moyesy for a point dropped here and there, I applaud him for competing against all the top teams this year and wish him better luck in the games we dominate.

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